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Why is Dune on this list? Paul is not gay; at a stretch he may be bi-

Why is Stranger In A Strange Land on this list? It's FULL OF HOMOPHOBIA.

Probably because Baron Harkonnen was a pervert that liked boys. I don't think he should count as a main character, really, and I utterly disagree with it being on the list, but that is the only thing that makes any sense.

What I want to know is why all of the covers of these stories feel that it is necessary to have pictures of men's abdominal muscles on nearly everyone of them? Can't we have a story with gay main characters that isn't JUST about the sexual aspect of it?

There is no gay protagonist in The Left Hand of Darkness.

There may be no gay protagonist in Left Hand Of Darkness, but at a stretch, the population of Gethen are all transgendered! The fact that a person of that world can be both a mother and father in the same lifetime is mindblowing! And as in other gay books(see City and the Pillar) one of the protagonists must die. In this case it's Lord Estraven.

David

I wouldn't call Wraeththu science fiction. It's a gothic fantasy.

momokaachan wrote: "Why is Dune on this list? Paul is not gay; at a stretch he may be bi-"

I bet it has to do with Baron Harkonnen.

The Left Hand of Darkness probably shouldn't be here. I suppose who added it thought of the scene where the protagonists sleep together and even though at that point they are female-male, the female partener has always been thought of as male so it's... confusing...

I totally disagree with Dune on the list though. I've always seen the Baron as a pedophile rather than a gay character. And I wouldn't call him a protagonist...

Not sure I'd call Mongrel or Slave Boy (listed twice) sci-fi. Alt univ or fantasy may work better.

Dune shouldn't be on this list. The Baron is a cruel, perverted, pedophile whose intentions with Paul ... >shudders< And the suggestions of what went on with his nephews? Yeah, no.

I have an issue with The Last Pure Human being on this list. It may have started out as science fiction at the beginning, now, however, it has degenerated to just PWP - porn without plot.

Dune is definitely sci-fi. The Baron being a pedo versus gay is a toss-up. The fact that he focused on males is a clue though. But, I see your point after some thought... :)

Dune is excellent science fiction. However, I do think Frank Herbert had some definite ideas about homosexuality which would be at odds with most of the books on this list. Also, his characterization of Baron Harkonnen is not a man who likes/loves men in and of themselves, but who loves power over younger men, most especially pretty boys who are either sedated before he starts using them (there's no love in his actions) or are feisty enough to put up a fight, but not strong enough to stop his sadism. The whole point in the Baron's view is not the enjoyment of D/s|M/s|BDSM where the sub has control but where he has the power of life and, more importantly, death over his victims.

From Dune: "I'll be in my sleeping chambers," the Baron said. "Bring me that young fellow we bought on Gamont, the one with the lovely eyes. Drug him well. I don't feel like wrestling."

There are very few redeeming qualities about the Baron, he's out to grab all the power he can and has no qualms about how he achieves his goals. Yes, he's homosexual, but as written in the original text (ignoring the Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson versions), the Baron doesn't qualify as anything but a nasty, dirty old man who, if he thought he could get away with it and survive, would have raped his own grandson (Paul) just because he was "pretty".

I have a hard time judging a book because of an author's proclivities or personal beliefs (Ender's Game also comes to mind). This falls into the slippery slope of book censoring/banning, imho. It's something I mull over a lot.

The list calls for Sci-fi books with gay characters and by that spec alone, Dune belongs here no matter what we feel about the author or a character.

Kaitlyn wrote: "... Can't we have a story with gay main characters that isn't JUST about the sexual aspect of it?"

I feel the same way, Kaitlyn. It's a philosophy I bring to my writing. I write stories about characters' whole lives, not just their sex lives. I expect the draw of my stories to be a spirit of adventure and philosophical depth, not a cover filled with abdominal muscles.

But also, it appears that in the three years since your post, this list hass been filled out with many titles that do not engage in sex-appeal cover tactics. That's heartening. We're beginning to explore gay characters' whole lives, not just their sex lives.

Have to say I read stranger in a strange land many time and there is no gay character at all in it definiely not a main character.

Luck in the shadow is fantasy not Sci FI

Kaitlyn wrote: "What I want to know is why all of the covers of these stories feel that it is necessary to have pictures of men's abdominal muscles on nearly everyone of them? Can't we have a story with gay main c..."

Ethan of Athos barely touches on the sexual aspects, it's more of interest for the cultural aspects and the adventure Ethan has when exposed to the world outside Athos, and meeting women for the first time.

Kathy wrote: "Kaitlyn wrote: "What I want to know is why all of the covers of these stories feel that it is necessary to have pictures of men's abdominal muscles on nearly everyone of them? Can't we have a story..."

Which makes it an interesting book, especially from Ethan's point of view. Not every book needs sex in it to be valid.

Orson Scott Card is actively anti-gay and has donated and participated with prominent anti-gay organizations. Surprised to see one of his books listed.

Roger - president of NBR United - wrote: "Have to say I read stranger in a strange land many time and there is no gay character at all in it definiely not a main character."

Actually the main character is bisexual which qualifies if the rest of these books are anything to go by. The whole thing is about free love and being able to love and have sex with whomever you want. It was my favorite book for many years as a kid. I read it when I was 11 and it was the book that made me realize I was bi, too. I came out after I read it. Of course, my mother just thought it was me being dramatic so she was quite shocked when I finally started dating women, too.

Although as an adult I can see Heinlein's politics in his work, and that his views on women and gay people were stuck back in time and never grew so it became clear he was horribly sexist in particular. Stranger in a Strange land really opened my eyes and allowed me to be true to myself much earlier in life than a lot of other LGBTQ people. Looking back on it now, yes it's homophobic, but in the era in which it was written, it was quite forward thinking for a mainstream book. He wasn't Delaney or Sturgeon, but the book definitely pushed boundaries at the time.