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I find myself wondering who thinks of His Dark Materials as "Christian Fantasy".

I'm a huge fan of Christian Fantasy, and I'd like to protest the inclusive of His Dark Materials. There are other books on this list that I would argue are not Christian Fantasy, but His Dark Materials takes the cake. Phillip Pullman flat out hates Christians and everything our faith stands for. You can read his books and find things for Christians to discuss, no doubt. But that can be said of any book.

I also don't think Tolkien's works should be on this list. Tolkien was a Christian and you might be able to find Christian symbolism in his books, but I don't think that merits it being added to these lists. He was a fantastic and influential fantasy author, but not a Christian author per say.

Tolkien thought of his work as "applicable" he found Christian symbolism in his works, but knew others could read them without seeing any...

As for Pullman, this kind of thing happens on all the public lists. It's true Pullman's works are actually "anti-Christian". He even writes the children "killing" his deity and casts his view of a "church" as the villain. But, it's a public list and getting a book off the list is in the hands of the librarian. Just be aware of what you're looking at as you peruse the list. it's all we can do. The other lists end the same, the Urban Fantasy list gets Epic fantasy posted on it and so on. Just the way it is.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Tolkien thought of his work as "applicable" he found Christian symbolism in his works, but knew others could read them without seeing any...

As for Pullman, this kind of thing happens on all the ..."

Ah well. At least I can add about 60 books that no one else apparently knows about to the list.

Hope you have some good ones I've missed. Thanks.

Okay, I'm a librarian now so I deleted His Dark Materials off the list. I hope no one protests. It's quite clearly not Christian fantasy.

Harry Potter isn't really Christian fantasy.

Shelia wrote: "Harry Potter isn't really Christian fantasy."

No, it isn't, but it has many Christian values. It makes clear distinctions between good and evil, depicts the villain's hunt for immortality as wrong, and emphasizes the fact that love conquers all.

Єmiℓy wrote: "No, it isn't, but it has many Christian values. It makes clear distinctions between good and evil, depicts the villain's hunt for immortality as wrong, and emphasizes the fact that love conquers all."

Come to think of it...you're right.

I agree the Potter books aren't Christian fantasy, but it is possible to find Christian themes if you look.

Єmiℓy wrote: "Shelia wrote: "Harry Potter isn't really Christian fantasy."

No, it isn't, but it has many Christian values. It makes clear distinctions between good and evil, depicts the villain's hunt for immor..."

True... but personally I think that there are loads of mainstream fantasies out there that follow the same path and still aren't necessarily Christian. I'd even put Lord of the Rings in that category. I don't think that just because Christians can find good themes to discuss in a book then that means that those books belong on a Christian Fantasy list like this one. I've been browsing these lists to find more Christian Fantasies that I can enjoy, not secular works that I can read and discuss. I can find those anywhere.

Now looking at the list, I see secular books above a lot of my favorite Christian Fantasies. Not to say that secular fantasies are evil or anything.... I'm not that type of Christian! lol But like I said before, I've been browsing these lists to find more Christian Fantasies and so far I've found that I'm the one adding most of the books to the list. Am I really the only one here looking for Christian Fantasies with clear Christian themes, allegories, and symbolism?

No, like you I've come here looking for fantasies that are "clearly" Christian and found that probably the majority aren't really what I'd call Christian fantasy. There are a few that are clearly non-Christian, but the lists are open, so....

Oh well. It's like that on most of these lists. There's an Urban Fantasy list and it hadn't been in existence long before it was full of Epic fantasy, high fantasy, sword and sorcery etc. I think either some don't read the actual headings very well, or maybe just like putting on books that don't belong.

We just have to sift through them.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "No, like you I've come here looking for fantasies that are "clearly" Christian and found that probably the majority aren't really what I'd call Christian fantasy. There are a few that are clearly n..."

Yeah, I know. But then I come here and find people talking about why they added the books, and I think it's a rather weak reason. I've seen loads of high fantasy books on the urban fantasy lists and vise-versa. Usually those voters are not in the comments trying to justify why they added the book. At least, I haven't seen any recently.

I'm specifically looking for more fantasy like Chronicles of Narnia, not like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. I think that Christians can find Christian truths in loads of books that aren't necessarily Christian. But I'm not looking for those books... I can find them anywhere. I know I'm going to have to sift through them when I'm looking through these lists, but I'd like to add my own two cents when I see voters adding books that I don't think belong on the lists.

Well, LOtR was/is full of Christian references and it was very Christian from Tolkien's point of view but he felt he ought to be more oblique about it. He criticized Lewis because he thought the Christian basis in Narnia was "too obvious". (You probably know about the "Inklings" etc.).

Have you read Pilgrims Progress in Today's English? I can't think of anything a lot like Narnia. Lawhead's Dragon King Trilogy is fairly obvious Christian fantasy. It's been a long time since I read it.In the Hall of the Dragon King, The Warlords of Nin, and The Sword and the Flame. Some of Lawhead's other fantasies also have a fairly overt Christian basis.

Like you I'm always looking for good Christian Fantasy. I didn't care a lot for the Left Behind series but I do like the BeauSeigneur, "Christ Clone" trilogy (though the title almost put me off). The title refers to an attempt to clone from the "material" on the Shroud or Turin. It's very respectful...the idea of Cloning Christ creeped me out a bit and I thought it might you to. The books:
In His Image, Birth of an Age: Book Two of the Christ Clone Trilogy, and Acts of God: The Christ Clone Trilogy, Book Three are pretty good. I wouldn't read them for theology (LOL) but they aren't irreverent.

I know all about the Inklings. lol I also know that Tolkien didn't really approve of people seeing his books as allegories of any kind. I love LOTR, and I think there are loads of Christian themes and references. But I don't really think it should be categorized as Christian. I'm not really bothered by it being on this list because I see Tolkien's works on loads of Christian Fantasy lists all the time (I've kinda resigned to it.)... it's the other books like Harry Potter that actually bother me a bit.

I have read Pilgrim's Progress! Now if Tolkien thought that the allegory in Narnia was obvious... I wonder what he thought of that classic. I enjoyed Pilgrim's Progress well enough, but I did think it was a bit more preachy and in-your-face then I like to read about.

I'm thinking that the best allegories I've seen in Christian Fantasy other than Narnia have been in the Archives of Anthropus series by John White, The Auralia Thread by Jeffery Overstreet, and Heartless by Elizabeth Ann Stengl.

I haven't read Stephen Lawhead's Dragon King trilogy yet but I've read part of his Pendragon Cycle and the King Raven Trilogy. I'd already put the Dragon King trilogy on my to-read list. (My mental to-read list I think. I'm not too good at keeping up with the one on here.)

I don't much care for apocalyptic fiction like Left Behind. I'm less into Science Fiction, but I will read it on occasion. My preferred genre would be the high fantasy/ gateway fantasy or anything that takes place mainly in a made-up world. Sounds like the Christ Clone trilogy is Science Fiction... is it also apocalyptic/ end of the world? The idea does kind of creep me out, but if you recommend it then I might give it a try.

Well Allison, it is another take on the book of Revelation. I was saying that I really didn't care for the Left Behind series (I won't criticize or go into why here, suffice it to say I stopped about 3 or 4 books in). I was saying that the BeauSeigneur trilogy was superior. If you don't care for the subject matter in general, it may not appeal to you. Maybe read the first from the library and see if you want to go on? We all have individual taste.

I don't particularly care for Revelation/ End Times books in general. I have read a few that I've liked well enough, but I feel that it's an overdone part of Christian Fiction and not really something that I like to read about anyway. I saw the Christ Clone trilogy books at Half Price Books the other day and I thought about buying it, but decided I'd rather see if the library has it. I found a fair number of what looked like fantasy reads in the Christian Fiction section (I love finding fantasy books I haven't heard of before in that section!) that I'm probably going to read first.

I have about 30 books on my to-read shelf at home, so it might be awhile before I take an actual trip to the library. :D I got seven Stephen Lawhead books for Christmas, including the Dragon King Trilogy.

I read that many years ago and while I don't remember it in detail I remember I liked it. I'll also keep watching for book titles I haven't run on!

... the Harry Potter books being up there are really starting to bother me. Do you think anyone would scream horribly if I took them off? (The "Remove Books" page promises serious repercussions if I delete books without cause.)

I can't answer the question Allison... but personally I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt Ms. Rowling considers her books "Christian Fantasy" but on the other hand I suppose you can get a sort Christian lesson from them if you look for it. (And I admit you do have to look for it). I find some people tend to use very...nebulas definitions on a lot of these lists. The rest of us I suppose just need to be discerning. :) Oh well.

A "sort-of" Christian lesson. But like I said before, if the only criteria for a book being Christian Fantasy is some "sort-of" Christian lesson to discuss... then we might as well add the entire fantasy database.

I added books like "The Charlatan's Boy" and "On the Edge of the Dark Sea of Darkness" because even though I couldn't discern a stronger Christian message then I find in most mainstream fiction, both were fantasies published by a Christian press (In this case, Waterbrook). Which I think, should there be doubt as to whether or not the symbolism is actually there, could be the deciding factor.

I feel like people are a bit vague when they add books to these lists. They want to stretch the definition in order to put their favorites up. For now I'll leave Harry Potter be and see if anybody comes back to defend their position.