City of Copying Other Great Works (Mortal Instruments #Too Many)

[rachel ~ trans rights are human rights]

So I'll come right out and say that I hated this book. I didn't even bother with the others because, uhm, there's really no point. What I don't understand is how people can really enjoy this book when it's a huge rip off of Harry Potter (the Deathly Hallows = Mortal Instruments), Star Wars (the whole father thing~), with even a little bit of Supernatural thrown in there. Not to mention the ridiculously stereotypical characters and the crazy amount of sexism. By halfway through the book I was trying not to gouge my eyes out because of how ridiculous the book was. But what I really want to know is how people can really support/enjoy this series when it's just a ripoff of other amazing works.

[Anna]

I think its a fabulous book series because the "things" that the books "rip off" are combined to create a whole new series. Yes, it may have similar plots and storylines, and it may have stereotypical characters and sexism (by my opinion, I really don't see how you got that out of the books. please don't hate on me), but Cassandra Clare did a wonderful job at mixing all those stories together. Maybe she mixed the other works on purpose, or maybe it was a happy coincidence. Maybe she had a dream about Harry Potter & Star Wars. We may never know. But overall, she wrote the series (she also came up with the whole tattoo/symbol thing), she got her work published, and now the series has been getting quite a few awards. So, quit hating on her and her work. I say kudos to Cassandra for giving the world a new and exciting series to read!

[Lauren]

I love this series and while reading it I had no connection to harry potter or star wars. Mrs. Clare in my opinion does a wonderful job writing original creative books. And while there may be some sexism it's not the worse i've ever read or will read. although I do value your opinion and know not everybody will absolutely love this series.

[Megan]

The sexism and stereotypes are there, but it could have been worse. A LOT WORSE. Stop hating. I think the book was great, and those connections to HP and SW were vague. I mean, really. The idea of an elite group of powerful objects has been used in countless plots, and can't be ripped off. And the parent thing is vague too.
Really, this book was good, and it's fine if you don't like it, but it is original. Give it that.

[Racheal]

Themes, plots, and ideas will always circulate and be rewritten. It's the way the world works. There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. You can only try to make yours better, or more interesting. You have a right to your opinion on whether or not you enjoyed a book, everyone does. But, I find it childish, rude, and distasteful that you made a bashing thread. No book or author deserves slander.

[Grace]

Racheal wrote: "Themes, plots, and ideas will always circulate and be rewritten. It's the way the world works. There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. You can only try to make yours better, or more int..."

Could NOT have said it better myself.
All book ideas originate from one another. Harry Potter isn't entirely original, either. Original ideas ran out so long ago! Give The Mortal Instruments a break.

[Kyra M]

Um she didn't steal harry potters name, it's different and with the supernatural thats fucking free game is like history; your real going to say that if someone wrote a book about the civil war no one can write another one? And if you don't like it them don't comment on it!

[Michelle]

Sorry but I absolutely LOVED this series.....not necessary to say more!

[[deleted user]]

agree. this book is so-so. it has good dialogues though

[Christian]

rayful wrote: "So I'll come right out and say that I hated this book. I didn't even bother with the others because, uhm, there's really no point. What I don't understand is how people can really enjoy this book..."

Yeah, there is also the problem that City of Bones was published 7 months BEFORE Deathly Hallows. City of Bones was first published in January of 2007 and Deathly Hallows came out in July of that year. It is hard to steal the ideas of something you have never heard of or had the chance to read prior.

[Whitney]

I disagree. Okay, so maybe the author was inspired by several other works and combined the ideas together to make one awesome story. There's nothing wrong with that. People have to get their inspiration from somewhere.

I agree with Anna.

[rachel ~ trans rights are human rights]

Megan wrote: "The sexism and stereotypes are there, but it could have been worse. A LOT WORSE. Stop hating. I think the book was great, and those connections to HP and SW were vague. I mean, really. The idea of ..."

Can't even give it originality because it's not. It's been done a million other times, and it was way too easy to predict what was going to happen next... because it's been done too many times before.

Anna wrote: "I think its a fabulous book series because the "things" that the books "rip off" are combined to create a whole new series. Yes, it may have similar plots and storylines, and it may have stereotypi..."

I got the sexism out of Isabelle, mainly, and a little from Jace. Mainly because Isabelle is the extremely stereotypical "warrior girl" or whatever. She's tough but somehow still manages to be sexy, sucks at cooking, but has all the guys fawning over her. To me, it doesn't make sense. Sure I've heard of guys/girls being "unattainable", but Clare brought it to a whole new level.

Megan wrote: "The sexism and stereotypes are there, but it could have been worse. A LOT WORSE. Stop hating. I think the book was great, and those connections to HP and SW were vague. I mean, really. The idea of ..."

Mehh. I disagree with it being vague. As soon as I read about the "three items" (or something along those lines, I don't completely remember, seeing as I tried to block the book out of my mind the best I could), I felt like she was trying to get the same reaction that people have to Harry Potter. I'm well aware that people recycle ideas; I know that. There is, however, a huge difference between recyling and having the (almost) same exact concept. Not to mention how terribly cliche a lot of it was.


Christian wrote: "rayful wrote: "So I'll come right out and say that I hated this book. I didn't even bother with the others because, uhm, there's really no point. What I don't understand is how people can really ..."

The Deathly Hallows were mentioned before the seventh book. They were actually mentioned throughout the sixth. Also, while this may or may not be completely reliable, I have found multiple articles claiming that Clare has plagarised on quite a few of her works.

(http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Cassan...)

Personally, I absolutely refuse to support someone who has been caught plagarising, even if it was only in her "fanfiction" stage. Besides, I don't really enjoy her writing, either.

Kyra wrote: "Um she didn't steal harry potters name, it's different and with the supernatural thats fucking free game is like history; your real going to say that if someone wrote a book about the civil war no ..."

First off, I'd prefer it if you did not curse at me because it's extremely rude and disrespectful. Second, it is called a book discussion for a reason. I am discussing it, aren't I? Please just have the decency not to curse at me. Thank you.

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Ok, for the sake of honesty, I do know that Clare was a huuuuuuuuuge name in the Harry Potter fandom before writing this series, and much of this series is basically a rewrite of her fanfiction stories the Draco Trilogy. The characters are basically copied and pasted from it, and there are several scenes copy pasted from it too, like the scene where Jace talks about his pet hawk or falcon. The same can be said for the Infernal devices. The characters are exactly the same. The only difference is the setting and the powers.

The problem is much of the stuff clare used in FF stories was taken from other places. This was especially common in quote mining, or picking witty/funny quotes from books, tv shows, and what not, and putting them in her stories. Joss Wheadon really should have gotten a writing credit for the Draco Trilogy because half of the fun lines were his.

Now then, this doesn't mean that the stuff in the MI series was taken from other places, just that I don't trust Clare because she's shown she's willing to steal in the past. I'm willing to give her a second chance, but if she starts quote mining again I'm dropping the series.

I would says he was strongly influenced by other things, especially Parry Potter since she was such a big name in the fandom, but I don't think anything has been directly copied yet, at least no enough to call it stealing.

[Marie]

Personallly, this is one of my favourite series! Even though I didn't see any major similarities in the books, I think that you always get an idea from somewhere else. Just because something has a similar story line doesn't mean that Cassandra Clare meant to "copy" anything.

[Jeanie]

As for this being like HP or SW... didn't you hear about the LotR fans complaining about the similarities between HPand it--ring wraiths/dementors anyone? And SW was intentionally written by Lucas to be a hero journey epic as the ancient Greeks did--not to mention other parallels drawn at the time. Original is virtually impossible. Creativity in the execution of the concept is the best we can do.

Never having read any fan fiction... the standards for plagiarism are a little different when what is being written cannot be copyrited, not even by the author. Of course some standards do apply, but rejecting this work based on previous fanfics isn't relavent to clare's current work.

As it was written a couple thousand years ago... "what has been will be again, what has been done will be done again, there is nothing new under the sun."

[Christian]

rayful wrote: "Megan wrote: "The sexism and stereotypes are there, but it could have been worse. A LOT WORSE. Stop hating. I think the book was great, and those connections to HP and SW were vague. I mean, really..."

Sorry, but you are incorrect. The term deathly hallows doesn't show up until the wedding scene when Harry asks Luna's dad (whose name I cannot remember how to spell) about the pin he is wearing after Viktor Krum argues with him (Luna's Dad) about it.

In fact, there was quite a bit of discussion about what the title meant when it was announced prior to be being published.

[Allarice]

I really didn't enjoy the books very much at all; they fell sort of flat for me. It wasn't my cup of tea.

I didn't particularly like the characters or writing style, and that was what clinched my dislike, but I have to say the connections began to bother me after a while. It's actually very similar to HP, more so than most other fantasy books are, and I think that the parallel is made all the worse by Clare's history.

In addition to the Mortal Instruments themselves, there is the steles issue, which reminds me of wands, Valentine reminded me of Voldemort, his followers, who left after his fall and were accepted into society but with bad reputations reminded me of Death Eaters, Valentine coming back reminded me of Voldemort coming back, Clare finding out about the underground world reminded me of Harry finding out about wizards, and the list goes on.

I think that what also made Mortal Instruments' parallels especially bad, in addition to Clare's history, is the fact she doesn't really add much to the tropes she combines. There's very little true originality, and she writes from a very typical paranormal-romancey point of view.

While combining a lot of different clichés, tropes, stereotypes, and vague ideas from other famous books might make something mildly pretty, which is what I found City of Bones to be, it doesn't really make anything fantastic.

[miguel]

I'm freaking tired of seeing these hate discussions.
Do i even need to say this again? I LOVE THIS BOOK.

[miguel]

Marie wrote: "Personallly, this is one of my favourite series! Even though I didn't see any major similarities in the books, I think that you always get an idea from somewhere else. Just because something has a ..."

THAT. is so true!

[Marie]

Miguel wrote: "Marie wrote: "Personallly, this is one of my favourite series! Even though I didn't see any major similarities in the books, I think that you always get an idea from somewhere else. Just because so..."
haha thnx :)

[Amanda (Gale's Chosen One)]

I'll admit i did see some similarities with Harry Potter, but i still love the series.
If you want to see a complete Harry Potter rip off and bad stereotypes read The House Of Night series.

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Amanda (Gale's Wife) wrote: "I'll admit i did see some similarities with Harry Potter, but i still love the series.
If you want to see a complete Harry Potter rip off and bad stereotypes read The House Of Night series."

That's not right. If it had been ripping off Harry Potter, the House of Night series would have actually been readable instead of the literary equivalent of a lobotomy.

[Katie]

I personally see more connections to WW2 than Harry Potter and Star Wars. This is one of my favorite series. Besides, both were published in 2007 and a book takes more than a year to get published. Therefore I highly doubt that she plagiarized it from JK Rowling. Just saying, I don't think that she could have taken an unpublished idea because editors dont really like ideas escaping from their tight group. And with Star Wars, the connection is vague. But hey that's just my opinion.

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Katie wrote: "I personally see more connections to WW2 than Harry Potter and Star Wars. This is one of my favorite series. Besides, both were published in 2007 and a book takes more than a year to get published...."

Well, there was a ton of racism in the books. A good deal of it came from the heroes of the story though. Jace and the rest of the Shadow Hunters' attitude towards "mundanes" was repulsive. Replace "mundane"with "Jew", "Latino", "black", or any minority and you have a book that no publisher would touch with a ten foot pole.

[Amanda (Gale's Chosen One)]

Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Amanda (Gale's Wife) wrote: "I'll admit i did see some similarities with Harry Potter, but i still love the series.
If you want to see a complete Harry Potter rip off and bad stereotypes read The H..."

Yeah, it's right. I see quite a few similaraties.
If anything it makes you hate the series because it's such a joke.

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Amanda (Gale's Wife) wrote: "Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Amanda (Gale's Wife) wrote: "I'll admit i did see some similarities with Harry Potter, but i still love the series.
If you want to see a complete Harry Potter rip o..."

Then they managed to copy a fun series, and still make a book series that's absolute crap. I feel like they deserve an award for sucking so much.

[Jeanie]

I think of TMI and ID as following a trend rather than imitating or stealing from others. TV has long been this way with decades devoted to westerns--Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Rawhide, Wagon Train--or crime solving--Law and Order, CSI, NCIS, etc.--and now fairy tales--Grimm and the show that comes on Sunday nights but I'm temporarily unable to think of the name *slaps head trying to dislodge the word jam*--and so on. It can't always be about being totally original; sometimes it's about what you do with a given premise. Personally, I really enjoyed Cassandra Clare's take on the notion of a hidden world and an apparently normal person who finds they belong to that world.

For those who don't like the series... sorry, truly I am, but nothing can possibly please everyone. I guess it's natural for those of us who really like the series to find it unpleasant when we see it being bashed, but it also seems to me that a low rating and negative review explaining why you dislike it should be enough. Just let it go and move on, leaving others to like the books in peace.

[Marie]

Jeanie wrote: "I think of TMI and ID as following a trend rather than imitating or stealing from others. TV has long been this way with decades devoted to westerns--Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Rawhide, Wagon Train--or cr..."

I LOVE how you put that! I totally agree with you :)

[Marnie]

rayful wrote: "So I'll come right out and say that I hated this book. I didn't even bother with the others because, uhm, there's really no point. What I don't understand is how people can really enjoy this book..."
O, thank heavens there are other people out there that also feels like this. It was a total wast of time and energy.

[Jennifer]

Star Wars and Harry Potter 'ripped off' a lot too, by your definition. This wasn't my favorite book of all time but it was a good effort. Archetypal stories and epics go back to ancient times. There's nothing new in the world, just new ways of manipulating and telling a story. Let's all take a deep breath, acknowledge that pretty much everything we read is going to be influenced by something else, and just enjoy reading.

[Nicole D.]

Racheal wrote: "Themes, plots, and ideas will always circulate and be rewritten. It's the way the world works. There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. You can only try to make yours better, or more int..."

I agree with you and you said what I thinking but a lot better then I would have worded it.

[Kathryn]

Quite honestly, I agree to some extent with the original poster. I read about half of it, and I had to sell it to my bookstore because it was just awful. I had received the book as a gift for my birthday, and like I said, it was AWFUL. The reason I said to 'some extent' is because I couldn't even get through it, and I have never read Harry Potter.

To people who are disagreeing, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because a book is popular or you love it, doesn't mean everyone else does or has to. Rayful is entitled to her opinion, so let her say what she wants. If you don't like it, you don't have to be on this thread. Just sayin'....

Trust me, I read a lot. I really, really, really wanted to like this book. But, I didn't. It sucked.

[Andrea Mika]

the discussion title is just funny! BAHAHA

[Andrea Mika]

Andrea Mika wrote: "the discussion title is just funny! BAHAHA"

but i agree...

[S.L.J.]

I forget who said it but they say that there are only 7 stories in the whole world and that all other stories are simply variations of those original 7.

1.man against man
2.man against nature
3.man against himself
4.man against God
5.man against society
6.man caught in the middle
7.man and woman

[Athena]

I, personally, love this series. And I didn't even like...think about whether it was "ripping off" another story. As a writter I find it extremely difficult to make up an "original" story. Like, I'll think of something and then find the parallels to another story. And then I won't write it, because honestly, I'm worried this will happen. Heh.

But I agree that every one is entitled to their own opinion and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book. Luckily for those you didn't(and even if you did) there are still plenty of books out there for you to read and enjoy. :) thank goodness for that.

Heh. Please don't hate me. :P

[Jessica]

Lauren wrote: "I love this series and while reading it I had no connection to harry potter or star wars. Mrs. Clare in my opinion does a wonderful job writing original creative books. And while there may be some ..."
i agree with you. i couldn't have said it any better. i didn't notice the connection to those works either.

[rachel ~ trans rights are human rights]

Miguel wrote: "I'm freaking tired of seeing these hate discussions.
Do i even need to say this again? I LOVE THIS BOOK."

Uh, if you don't want to see these hate discussions, then don't join them.

Jessica wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I love this series and while reading it I had no connection to harry potter or star wars. Mrs. Clare in my opinion does a wonderful job writing original creative books. And while the..."

Just because you don't see the connections does not mean they are not there?

Athena wrote: "I, personally, love this series. And I didn't even like...think about whether it was "ripping off" another story. As a writter I find it extremely difficult to make up an "original" story. Like, I'..."

There's nothing to hate you over. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And while I generally agree with you when it comes to books having parralells, I just feel as if TMI took it to a whole new level. As I said, I only read the first book, so I guess it could have gotten better? I still don't believe that Cassandra Clare is a good writer, and that's being generous. I just feel as if she took all the ideas/main points of extremely popular works and shoved them together in a way that was too messy, too much, and too blatantly obvious.

Andrea Mika wrote: "Andrea Mika wrote: "the discussion title is just funny! BAHAHA"

but i agree..."

Haha, thank you.

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Katrin wrote: "I hate it when ppl say an author ripped off another one. They CAN'T because its not THEIR imagination and their books may be SIMILAR but its not the same mind so its a different imagination. I don'..."

Uhhh....I could think of a ton of other books that ripped of LotR more than Harry Potter. Eragon for instance, or half the high fantasy books published in the last 30 years or so.

[Kathryn]

Katrin wrote: "I hate it when ppl say an author ripped off another one. They CAN'T because its not THEIR imagination and their books may be SIMILAR but its not the same mind so its a different imagination. I don'..."

If you LOVE the series, then why are you even on a thread which doesn't like it??? Seriously? Why can't people have their own opinion about something and have it be disagreeing with your own? If the OP wants to say MI is copying other works, its her opinion. At least she has her own opinion about the series. Not everyone has to love it like you do. I personally thought it was crap, and that's why I sold my book before finishing it. And yes, I really did try to like the book...but, I couldn't.

[Jenna]

Would it be fair to say that some are too critical? You're totally overstepping the foundation in which the book was set upon. The world of Shadowhunters?

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Jenna wrote: "Would it be fair to say that some are too critical? You're totally overstepping the foundation in which the book was set upon. The world of Shadowhunters?"

I have a hard time blaming people for being overly critical in this case given the authors past and her immaturity at the situation then. She was very fortunate that Pamela Dean was so forgiving.

[Kathryn]

Did she really use her last name as a name for a character in her books??? hahahahaha

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Kathryn wrote: "Did she really use her last name as a name for a character in her books??? hahahahaha"

For the most part yes. It's not her real name, but naming your main character after your pen name is pretty pathetic.

[Kathryn]

Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "Did she really use her last name as a name for a character in her books??? hahahahaha"

For the most part yes. It's not her real name, but naming your main character after your pen ..."

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! I'd say...:)

[Tanya]

Boy, there really is a hate on here. To be honest, I had a tough time getting through the first book in the MI series, for (almost) all the reasons mentioned above. If I hadn't had my younger sister coaxing me through I may not have made it to book 2. But once I got through it I really fell in love with the story and all the books.

Being an avid HP and SW fan I guess I understand that some of the best stories have to pull their mojo from somewhere. Some of my favorite "older" stories include the original Terminator, The Matrix Movies, and, yes, the Harrison Ford classic The Futitive. Those are from when I was too young to appreciate a good book. Now I have a plethera of stories that I love which include MI/ID, Hunger Games, My Blood Approves, Fever Series,and the Dark Hunter books. Every single one of these "favorites" (old and new) have drawn from other stories lines

I guess what I'm saying here is 1) please get through the entire book before bagging. 2) if you've made it through the book feel free to bag. 3) some people love chocoate and hate vanilla.

But of course, that is just my opinion.

And PS: swearing in posts - not good or polite on a public site such as this. Younger kids read these posts and don't need any help fostering their future potty mouths. I'm a democrat, but I'm a mom too.

[Tanya]

I almost forgot, I have to agree with whoever bagged on House of Night. Talk about crap. I feel it is ok for me to bag - as I've read them all (referring to #1 in my aforementioned post). This story has gone absolutley no where in the million and half books that are out there. But again, that is just my opinion.

[Maranda]

rayful wrote: "So I'll come right out and say that I hated this book. I didn't even bother with the others because, uhm, there's really no point. What I don't understand is how people can really enjoy this book..."

It's very interesting and super rare to see that someone doesn't like this series, you're right, and the reason is because it's not the big rip off you say it is and the characters are not as you call "stereotypical" they are strong clear and understood, recognizable to even the youngest of readers. I am so sorry that you don't like this series because I can remember staying up late to finish the chapter and waking up early to read more but to be honest I still don't get how its a rip off and please don't think I'm being sarcastic or mean. Even with all of those things that you have against it can't you agree that it is write very flowing and eloquently? We'll I hope we can both agree that it is not the worst series out there.

[Turtles All the Way Down]

Tanya wrote: "Boy, there really is a hate on here. To be honest, I had a tough time getting through the first book in the MI series, for (almost) all the reasons mentioned above. If I hadn't had my younger sis..."

I've read the whole series up to this point, and I can't say I'm a fan of it. I don't necessarily hate it, and I can tolerate it, but it's not something I would choose to read if I didn't have my friend begging me to read it with her.

[Lara Ruark]

i actually love reading the discussions about this series. i like the connections that people make to other stories....

does that make the book any less enjoyable for me? no....

the brother/sister element does!! now, i've only read the first two books, but that's what i didn't care for.