City of Bones
discussion
City of Copying Other Great Works (Mortal Instruments #Too Many)
First i'm just gonna say i got bored of reading everyones comments about half way down the second page so if i say something someones already said thats why.So I like the series I never see similarites whilst i'm reading a book 'cause usually i'm to absorbed in the book to stop and think about it, but I can see them afterwards.
About the plagerism- A lot of people here seem to have taken this at face value. Yes, plagerism is very serious but looking at what cassie wrote I can see how the mistake was made. I mean she knew she was taking quotes and she made it clear to readers thats what she was doing. It doesn't look like she tried to pass it off as her own work- she says where she got the sources from. It does make me wonder, how clear the website was at the time about how specific referencing needs to be. I would also consider the fact that Cassie is now published, and if she was at fault their I highly doubt any publisher would have taken her on.
Ripping off- not going to say too much about this, cause others have pretty much summed it up. Nothing is ever origional and people really do need to get past that argument. I can see the links with other works but imo she hasn't stepped over a line. As the the HP and the deathly hallows, since it was published first I don't think she was influenced by that :p but defo by the rest of the series.
I can't remember who said this but someone said you shouldn't remark on the book if you haven't finished it. And someone else replied that they tried and simply couldn't. -- I agree i don't think you should be too judgemental if you haven't finished it but i don't mind so long as its made clear that your judgements are based on what you read of it- which it was (:
Also people keep talking about how you shouldn't post on a thread like this if you liked the book. - surely that defeats the purpose of a discussion :p. Yeah be respectful but the whole point is to say I think x because of y and someone else saying oh i think y because of z.
I'm gonna shut up now, you'll be pleased to know. (:
Louizzza wrote: "First i'm just gonna say i got bored of reading everyones comments about half way down the second page so if i say something someones already said thats why.So I like the series I never see sim..."
Just to clarify, the quotes of witty dialogue from shows and books was made clear to readers, but the actual taking of the passages from Pamela Dean's books was NOT made clear to readers. She only mentioned it after she had been caught, and even then she didn't get the book right. The website was pretty clear about what you needed to do, which is was say and mark everything that wasn't your idea o original writing.
I do believe she was at fault because she knew what she was doing. When she was caught she never apologized or anything like that, she whined, said she was beng treated badly, then had a bitch fest.
I'll be clear about this because i don't think think I have been: Had she been mature and admitted to what she did I would have easily forgiven her. Had she apologized and said she was wrong, I would have forgiven her. Had she been mature about the situation I would have forgiven her. But she wasn't. I would also avoid bringing this up in conversation about her published work, if the published work wasn't just a slightly altered version of her Fanfiction.
I would also hesitate to assume publishers are moral. They are businesses as sure as any the Oil industry, or wal-mart. They want to make money, and not much else. I think they probably watch Clare's writing like a hawk, although I did notice a joke from Buffy the Vampire Slayer in CoFA, but I don't think her past would have ever stopped them from publishing her. She is one of the few writers that comes with a huge pre-built fan-base of who were willing to buy her books. She was a well known name in the HP fandom, and despite getting caught she still had a lot of support.
Kathryn wrote: "Jenna wrote: "It's also kind of scary because these characters have influence over readers at times. Patch, for instance, his actions are really sinister in Hush Hush. Yet for some reason if a pers..."I was fourteen when I was told to check out Twilight. Before that I was really into video games (Which are in some cases better written then books). I'm just thankful my parents are in a healthy relationship, because if my mom was Bella she would call the cops. So I knew Edward was a lame love interest. However, I did think to myself maybe guys liked a girl who had no self-confidence...Yeah no one should ever look to Bella as a role model. But my fourteen year-old self figured that out pretty quickly though. I'm eighteen now, but I've always been a skeptic when it comes to these teen romance books. I still think parents should take the time to talk to their kids about relationships whether it be friendships or romantic.
And whats with all these fallen angel books? In Fallen and Hush Hush I got the feeling that God was suppose to be the villain there. How that works, I have no idea, but I'm on God's side.
And with the whole shaming thing. I personally do not care about this random chick in a mini skirt making out with her boyfriend. Why does it matter? Why is the main character noticing this? Why is she so hypersensitive about people who are morally different from her? If your to focused on other peoples mistakes your going to end up like Zoey from the House of Night. Yup I made it to the third book, I still have no idea how.
Back to Clare's fanfiction, I also heard somewhere that she literally copied and pasted scenes from her fan-fiction into her published work. Like Jace with the falcon story was originally Draco with a falcon. It may seem harmless copying her own work, but if she accidentally mistook a scene from one of Pamela Dean’s novels as one of her own, what other works did she forget to give credit to? And did she copy and past more of her fan-fiction into her works? It's theories like these that have us questioning this series so much.
It's one of the best series I have ever read, I love all the characters the plot lines and the sarcasm. they are hilarious!!
Jenna wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "Jenna wrote: "It's also kind of scary because these characters have influence over readers at times. Patch, for instance, his actions are really sinister in Hush Hush. Yet for some ..."Well said. :)
Jenna wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "Jenna wrote: "It's also kind of scary because these characters have influence over readers at times. Patch, for instance, his actions are really sinister in Hush Hush. Yet for some ..."I got the same feelings as you about God! Again, I thought I was the only one. There are some other things about MO which made me stop reading. I also quit Fallen, and I was like 3/4 through the book because it was boooooooring. I could tell you what those elements are that I didn't like, but I'd prefer to send them in a private message. :)
Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Louizzza wrote: "First i'm just gonna say i got bored of reading everyones comments about half way down the second page so if i say something someones already said thats why.So I like the series ..."
I'll bow to your better judgement on this one because i wasn't around at the time and i'm too lazy to read the archived stuff. I also see what you mean about the publishers i know they probably aren't angels but i was meaning that they wouldn't publish her if she plagerised because they wouldn't want a law suit on their hands.
Kathryn wrote: I got the same feelings as you about God! Again, I thought I was the only one. There are some other things about MO which made me stop reading. I also quit Fallen, and I was like 3/4 through the book because it was boooooooring. I could tell you what those elements are that I didn't like, but I'd prefer to send them in a private message. :) Go ahead and send a PM if you want, I'd like to read them. :)
Regan ♥ wrote: "I don't think you have the right to say this is a 'rip off' of any other works."In a later post
Regan ♥ wrote: "Also, now you're saying that it's not okay for me to have MY opinion then, I'm guessing, although you can have yours? "Quit trying to shove down our throats how much you love it. " Lol, I wasn't actually shoving it down anyone's throats thanks. At all? I was just putting my two cents in, if that's okay with you. Did I say your 'opinions' were blatantly wrong? NO. So don't accuse me of that. Thanks."
We do have the right to say whatever we want about this series as readers. Just because we aren't professional writers doesn't mean we should be mutes when it comes to books we don't like. You can retaliate all you want, and explain your views on topics that were brought up. Please do, it would make the discussion more in depth if we have both sides of the argument here. But don't get angry about our opinions, tell us we do not have a right to voice them, and when someone defends their rights you turn around and play the victim. Do you have the right to post? Yes. Do you have the right to voice your side of the argument? Yes. Clare's Fan-fiction past is very shady, and in my eyes her stories and characters are flat and feel like stereotypes. So explain why you think this series is so special? What makes it stand out from the rest, and not just blend in with all the other stories that are like Star Wars and Harry Potter?
Regan ♥ wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "I have the right to say whatever I want to, and so does everyone else. If people think its a rip off, they have the right to voice it if they want to. Sorry, if I sound a little pis..."Actually, I didn't say you couldn't say what you want to. You're trying to turn the conversation around and play like I am attacking you. All I said was, why are you on a thread which doesn't like MO, if you like it so much? Why don't you go find a thread which is about liking it? That was my point. Also, I told you to go tell it the world you like, so therefore, still allowing you to voice your opinion. I just don't understand why people would waste their time telling people who don't like these books, why they like them, when basically, we don't really care and it won't change our opinion. Its not like I'm spending time on a thread which does talk about how much they like the series, and telling them I hate it, and why they should hate it, as well. Just saying... Have a nice day :)
Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Turtles All the Way Down wrote: No, the shadow hunters never stop being racist/prejudice against mundanes. They always treat the status of being mundane as akin to being armless, legl..."Don't forget that shadowhunters created themself. The first one thought 'I need angel blood to fight demons' so went ahead and summoned an angel. He decided...
I'm not going to jump into this, mostly because I'm a very debating-like person, and if I started, I might not stop for a very long time, hahah. HOWEVER.
I would just like to say that a discussion thread is not a hate thread. And "stating your opinion" that an author is copying another author's work is a SERIOUS accusation, and something, if proven, could warrant Clare a huge fine and a jail sentence. So saying she "copied" from other authors is NOT your "opinion", because there is a very right and wrong answer for that. Like everybody else has probably already said, there ARE no original ideas anymore, and Clare executed her ideas in a way that I had never seen before. And I read a lot. A LOT a lot. So unless you can provide solid proof of Clare copying other people, instead of, "Well, it seemed like *this* scene from *this* book," do not attack her. No author or work deserves that, and it's very unfair to accuse her of something as serious as copying just because you didn't like the book.
And as for the discussion of "why we're here when it's a hate thread"--I'd welcome you to sit by while your favorite series (in some cases--like mine) is being attacked for no good reason. You didn't like it--okay. Let's all move on; there was really no reason to start such an antagonistic thread in the first place. Say what you need to in your review. Call it "stereotypical" or "predictable" or "cliche" if you want to. But honestly, saying she copied is going too far.
Also, it's pretty common to take your pen name from your characters. My pen name last name "Anderson" is straight from the neighbors in a story I wrote some time ago. Clare probably decided on her pen name after she wrote her books and before their publication, and linked the two for a reason.Anyway, that's all.
Thalia wrote: "Also, it's pretty common to take your pen name from your characters. My pen name last name "Anderson" is straight from the neighbors in a story I wrote some time ago. Clare probably decided on her ..."She's had her current pen named for years. It's the same one from her time in the Harry Potter fandom. The only difference is that her publishers name made her remove the "i" in "Claire" because there's already an author named Cassandra Claire.
Hm, didn't know that. However, that doesn't mean the character Clary wasn't already around when she picked out the name. Anyway, I just think there's no reason to mock an author's choice of pen name, and provided a possible reason why she picked it. That's all. (:
In my personal opinion this book was a good read. And people need to understand that it takes hard work and ALOT of time to create a book, I know since I've tried and it is NOT easy to do. Usually I get bored and trash the work, chucking it into the nearest trash bin. So I commend her for putting her work out there and props for doing what she does. I say keep up the good work Cassandra :)
Regan ♥ wrote: "All I said was "I don't think you have a right to say it is a rip off" because as Thalia said before, that is a serious accusation, and she wouldn't of been published if she had ripped off from another series, AND THAT'S WHY I AM ON THIS DISCUSSION. You can say "I hate it" or "I think the characters are bland and stereotypical", and I will just share my views as well, but saying she ripped off another serious is, like Thalia said, is something that could get her into trouble if proven. "It is a severe thing to say that someone ripped something off if we are talking about plagiarism when we say “rip off”, but I think we’re blending the words too much here. After reading the comments on this forum I think it's true that all stories share certain elements, and Clare hasn’t done anything illegal when it comes to directly copying other works word by word. However, neither has she done anything that original either. If certain people still feel that City of Bones is a rip off, we have a right to discuss this, but there is a difference between plagiarizing and ripping off in my mind. Also if it is proven that she did indeed plagiarize, then she deserves to get in trouble. However, after looking at the definition of plagiarism, I don’t think this will be the case.
The definition of plagiarism (According to Google)- The taking of someone’s work or ideas and passing them off as your own.
Clare didn’t directly use Lightsabors or Voldemort, but she used things that appeared a lot like them to certain people. That can’t really be counted as plagiarism. If people have looked through her fan-fiction only to catch a few of the original scenes were placed into her published work, I think that’s all they’re going to find. Even though it’s fan-fiction, those original scenes are her ideas (J.K Rowling’s idea of the Harry Potter characters is completely different from Clare’s). Although it does raise questions about Clare’s credibility, I don’t think discussing her lack of originality will do any harm.
Now the definition of rip off (Acording to Google)- To cheat, steal, to deprive somebody of something by deceit.
Ripping off is a less serious saying then the word plagiarism. When someone says the word plagiarism they know the severity of that word, and the meaning isn’t that flexible. Rip off is a saying that is sort of vague and can mean anything if you think about it. It's also not a technical name for a crime.
If people feel cheated by this book, that’s fine, they have the right to say what they feel.
This opinion isn’t hurting anybody, it’s just a means of venting frustrations and discussing things more in depth.
You did have a point with your first post, everything is ripping off something. With MI it’s just a little more obvious to see where that inspiration came from.
(Just a side, note the information I gathered on plagiarism is sort of barely brushing the surface. The subject is a little more complicated then that I'm sure. I also hope I explained my thoughts on this well enough.)
Regan ♥ wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Regan ♥ wrote: "I don't think you have the right to say this is a 'rip off' of any other works."In a later post
Regan ♥ wrote: "Also, now you're saying that it's not okay for me ..."
I hope you don't think I said its a rip-off because I have never said that, nor have I read HP. You must be referring to others. Also, its not a serious accusation to say someone ripped off another. Its an opinion. You can't get sued for libel or slander for stating your opinion. Now, if someone said she plagiarized, then maybe. But, she was caught of plagiarism, I believe.
About the plagiarism issue. Are the plagiarized parts in the mortal instruments books?Because I can deal with her having her fanfic stuff in the books as long as it was the stuff she came up with and not the stuff she lifted from other sources.
Diane *Ahnnihilate* wrote: "About the plagiarism issue. Are the plagiarized parts in the mortal instruments books?Because I can deal with her having her fanfic stuff in the books as long as it was the stuff she came up with ..."
No, not that I know of. The scene with Jace and the falcon was in the fan-fiction (and Jace was a fan's interpretation of Draco at the time). The scene was technically speaking hers if she changed the names of the characters, some of the objects mentioned, and context of the scene. None of her published work has material that is not legal for her to use. It was in her fan-fiction days she was accused of plagiarism. You can find more information about it online. I think a few links have already been posted on this form that lead to sites discussing it.
Jenna wrote: "Diane *Ahnnihilate* wrote: "About the plagiarism issue. Are the plagiarized parts in the mortal instruments books?Because I can deal with her having her fanfic stuff in the books as long as it was..."
Ah I see, thanks for letting me know.
On second thought, I probably would still have a problem with her fanfiction stuff in there even if it was her own ideas. *sigh*
I'll go check those links out.
Actually, plagiarism can be copying another's ideas, changing them very slightly, and passing it off as your own. To a certain degree, saying she ripped off other authors VERY closely is also accusing her of plagiarism. Plagiarism is not just word for word copying; it's ideas, characters, and thoughts, too. I'm just asking you to please be careful with what you say, because it's one thing to vent about some similarities, but another entirely to say the entire work is a copy of something else with minimal changes.I think whatever Clare did in the past should be past; she owned up to it, and instead did something successful that has literally changed the lives of millions of people. Just be careful the way things are phrased in this topic. Like I said; one thing to vent, another to accuse an author of copying/"ripping off"/plagiarising work.
Regan ♥ wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Regan ♥ wrote: "All I said was "I don't think you have a right to say it is a rip off" because as Thalia said before, that is a serious accusation, and she wouldn't of been published ..."I think people are still going on about her fanfiction days because she's recycling some of her fanfiction stuff.
The using of fanfiction to make a profit is a touchy subject, especially when it comes to this author because she was known to copy stuff and add them to her fanfics. But that said, I haven't really read any of her fanfics and I can't judge just yet.
Okay am I missing something here? Because i've seen a few comments saying her pen name is the same as her character's name... Clarrisa is a completely different name to Clare, so what are you guys talking about? I'm not trying to be funny or anything I am genuinly confused.
Diane *Ahnnihilate* wrote: "Regan ♥ wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Regan ♥ wrote: "All I said was "I don't think you have a right to say it is a rip off" because as Thalia said before, that is a serious accusation, and she wouldn't of..."That's one of my bigger issues with the series and her publishing. Fanfiction is something I support and love. IMHO it's a great way for young writers or wannabe professional writers to practice writing and learn what makes a story great and what doesn't. It's a useful tool and it's fun for people who enjoy reading the stories. Sadly, there are a lot of authors who are very touchy about it since it's in a legal gray area. They flip between allowing it and forbidding it.
What Clare did shows that a lot of those authors have a point. She not only profited from it with actual money and material goods, she was caught stealing from published writers and not crediting them. She used other people's writing and witty lines to create a huge fan base, then she published her own book. On top of that, she recycled material from the story that had stolen parts in it and used them in her published works, which is making her a lot of money. She's done a lot to show that some authors' fears were justified.
Even worse, there are publishers out there who are willing to publish re-worked AU fanfiction and sell it (think Fifty Shades of Grey, which was originally a Twilight fanfic until it had all that copy right bits removed and was published) because it already has a fanbase and people whoa re willing to buy it. So it's becoming harder for fanfiction to remain in a grey area.
Louizzza wrote: "Okay am I missing something here? Because i've seen a few comments saying her pen name is the same as her character's name... Clarrisa is a completely different name to Clare, so what are you guys ..."The name Clary is very close to Clare though, and Clary doesn't go by her real name in the books.
Thalia wrote: "Actually, plagiarism can be copying another's ideas, changing them very slightly, and passing it off as your own. To a certain degree, saying she ripped off other authors VERY closely is also accus..."I don't see the saying ripping off having the same severity as plagiarism, if it did half of the bad reviews for this book would have to be censored because I'm pretty sure quite a few readers had the same complaint. Lots of people say it all the time in reviews of other works.
I want to ask you about her work being life changing, if I may bring up the few questions before. Why you think this series is so special? What makes it stand out from the rest, and not just blend in with all the other stories that are like Star Wars and Harry Potter?
Also there is nothing wrong with writing fan-fiction, I tried my hand in that arena with my writing and I’m glad I did. Writing fan-fiction made me realize how much my writing sucks, so I worked at it and made it better. However, I agree with Turtles All The Way Down when it comes to the Draco Trilogies history. Fan-fiction writers already have a hard enough time when it comes to their reputation, some are really good with their writing others not so much. Unfortunately, people tend to focus on the bad.
Jenna, I just know that I do a lot of reading. I'm also an incredibly sentimental person. This series affected me in such a way that sometimes I physically ached because of things the characters were going through, and sometimes I just felt...too much and needed to stay home sick from school. Very few authors or stories have done that to me before; and usually only "tragic" stories (Phantom of the Opera is a good example here). Certainly no young adult novel had ever done that to me before. Even if the writing itself isn't the best in the entire world, the story, the characters, and the world she created had an effect on me that I can't describe. Harry Potter didn't do that to me.
Star Wars didn't do that to me.
Like I said; very few things have. Maybe it sounds pathetic or strange, the way it made me feel, but I like it when I can feel so much for a story that it sometimes keeps me up at night. When I can literally feel my insides wrenching when I read it. Clockwork Prince had the same sort of affect on me, and I often feel that way in situations where a couple that seems so meant-to-be has circumstances that prohibit them from being together. (Jace and Clary, for obvious reasons. Will and Tessa (view spoiler). Phantom and Christine because of his deformity and Raoul's interference.)
Although, occassionaly, Anakin Skywalker makes me feel like that a little bit, but not near to the degree that TMI did. So, while you might have thought it was stupid, cliche, and difficult to get through, it really did change my life. I'm not the same person since reading it, and I wouldn't have a quarter of the friends I do now had I never read it. So, I mean, of course I'm going to defend it.
It’s not pathetic. You explained why you liked it without giving me the same answers I heard before. And you know what, I understand this answer better then any of the others. We just have entirely different views on things (Because I really don’t like Anakin at all), but you know I appreciate that you explained this to me. I guess I’m not one of those people who’s touched by romance often, then again Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy Crisis Core were the things that got me into writing (which is strange seeing as they are video games), and those two things are very far from perfect. However, I think it’s safe to say we can agree to disagree when it comes to this series.
Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Diane *Ahnnihilate* wrote: "Regan ♥ wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Regan ♥ wrote: "All I said was "I don't think you have a right to say it is a rip off" because as Thalia said before, that is a serious acc..."^Yep, all of that.
I love fanfiction and it makes me sad that there are authors who "misbehave" and take advantage of that platform.
Jenna, not strange at all. Kingdom Hearts makes me cry just thinking about it sometimes, hahah. And Crisis Core--ugh, I don't even have the system for it and watching that last cutscene detroys me almost every time. OTL. Glad I didn't sound like a total nutcase then, hahah. (Although you're right--Anakin is a controversial one, hahah.)
Also, Final Fantasy X. I was like, seven when I first played that, and my parents couldn't understand why I just kept crying about it for days, hahaha. And Ico.
Thalia wrote: "Jenna, not strange at all. Kingdom Hearts makes me cry just thinking about it sometimes, hahah. And Crisis Core--ugh, I don't even have the system for it and watching that last cutscene detroys me ..."Omg it's like hearing myself talk, haha. I LOVE KH and crisis core <3 makes me wanna cry just thinking about that last cutscene in CC or even the end of KH ... damn it now I wanna go play ... wheres my PSP...
The topic is bringing all us nerds together. It's beautiful. (':
Yay for nerds! I remember playing KH when I was around 8 and had no idea how to play. I hated Riku, not because Riku is a bad character, but because I could never beat him at the island race. I thought he was cheating until I recently played the game again and beat him three times in a row. Take that mini Sephiroth!
Turtles All the Way Down wrote: "Katie wrote: "I personally see more connections to WW2 than Harry Potter and Star Wars. This is one of my favorite series. Besides, both were published in 2007 and a book takes more than a year to ..."Seriously? why does everything always get turned into a race issue? Why can't people just see something for what it is instead of making it into what it is not? As far as racism in this book.....I'm not even sure that deserves a comment. There are ALWAYS going to be people that dont like other people in the world, get over it. Do I think racism is ok? Um, of course not. But how is anyone going to make anything interesting to read if everyone loves each other and there is no conflict? Really?
dude the series justs gets better and better, but if you don't like fantasy than you definitly picked out the wrong book. and just saying this book is only a good starter book, the others just put this one in the dust.
I think thats partly what I like about this series because I can see parts of Harry Potter in it. Usually that drives me insane but this book is a bit orignial, what I don't like about it is tacking on three books when the main conflict was resolved in City of Glass, how whinny Clary is, the romance between her and Jace is so awkeward expecially since the author couldn't make up her mind about him being her sister or not. Only star wars thing is "I'm your Father" lol but that happens so often that I don't care, plus I'm not a star wars fan to find other references besides that. Race isn't an issue here.
Thalia wrote: "Jenna, I just know that I do a lot of reading. I'm also an incredibly sentimental person. This series affected me in such a way that sometimes I physically ached because of things the characters we..."This is slightly off topic and more to do with one of your offhand comments, but I'm a huge POTO fanatic, so. Anyway. I'm not offended, but I'm more... like I just don't understand why you - and many others; please correct me if I'm wrong on what your post was implying - can ship Christine and Phantom? Erik kidnapped Christine, he tried to kill the person that she did love, and she ran away from him to Raoul because she was afraid of him. I just really don't understand how people can justify their relationship because there wasn't one, other than Erik's obsession with her. Okay yeah just had to say that. I've always found it interesting when people try to justify their relationship.
Lauren wrote: "dude the series justs gets better and better, but if you don't like fantasy than you definitly picked out the wrong book. and just saying this book is only a good starter book, the others just put ..."
I love fantasy, so I don't understand how you got that out of what I was saying.
Okay here is the deal. Every book out there is a rip off of something else. The reason people enjoy this book is because even though some of the ideas were already out there it has great twists and story line. You can't hate a book simply because there are others out there that it reminds you of, cause if you do you won't be doing much reading. Also the first book may not do justice to the whole series, remember that there are series of books where you may not like the first one/second/third. This book is an enjoyable read, its funny and entertaining. And the point of the stereotypes was to get the reader thinking about what the character might say next or if the world is actually full of people who think that way. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't like the book (person who started this conversation) but you cannot go judging the whole series based off of the first book. Like the twilight series, the first book...... AWFUL!
Shadowhunter wrote: "Okay here is the deal. Every book out there is a rip off of something else. The reason people enjoy this book is because even though some of the ideas were already out there it has great twists and..."I don't think it's true to say not to judge the whole series by the first book, because the first book is what's supposed to draw you in. The first book is supposed to make you want to read the rest of the series, and that's exactly what it made me not want to do. And, honestly, I didn't find Clara or Clay or whatever her name was funny or cute or entertaining. She was a Mary-Sue, she was obnoxious, and the characters were so flat that it hurt. If I can say one thing about Twilight, also, is that I thought the first book was the only good book in the series. I read all of them, but the first book was the only good one.
The "twists" in the story line were so predictable that it wasn't even... well, twisty. I easily guessed that her father or whatever was going to be evil, I predicted early on that, hey, Jace is actually Clay/Clara/whatever's brother. It was predictable, overdone, terribly written, and stupid.
Racheal wrote: "Themes, plots, and ideas will always circulate and be rewritten. It's the way the world works. There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. You can only try to make yours better, or more int..."Agree 100%
I thought the books were great, one of my favorite series. Not once did HP or Star Wars come into my mind either. But everyone has their own opinions, in mine they were amazing :)
Jenna - I hated Riku as soon as he stole my Keyblade in Hollow Bastion. Leaves with that stupid wooden sword and just GAHHHHHH.Rayful, whewwww, okay! I've got like...a billion rants on why I feel the way I do about these two on like, every website I've ever been a member of, hahah. To clarify, I don't mean Erik. Like...the book Phantom was like, freaking crazy. I felt bad for him for the way he was treated just because of his deformity, but I can in no way justify his actions and I don't try to. I mean, I love the book, but what I fell in love with was Webber's play/movie. And because I've seen it more, the movie is where I pull most of my examples from.
But the rest of my response, I'll throw in spoilers so people who want to actually...talk about TMI can do so and not be interruped. XD
(view spoiler)
*takes breath*
*grabs tissues*
Whew; I think I'll be okay. x) I start to tear up just talking about it, hahah.
I think Riku gets better throughout the games. It's sort of a fall and redemption story for him. And now I'm going to do something really weird and pull up TMI for a comparison.In a since Riku and Jace are a lot alike. Though I think Riku’s a little less arrogant and rude (Before he gets corrupted by darkness that is). Sora is kinda like Simon, the two are both kinda awkward and always feel like they live in the shadow of Jace/Riku. Riku is pretty much better then Sora at everything. He’s got the looks, he’s got all these deep thoughts about the universe and why he was born on the planet he was born on (I’m not sure about brains because he was trying to get to other worlds on a raft and space doesn’t have oxygen…) also everybody on the island looks up to him. Sora on the other hand is this skinny kid who really doesn’t care about the mysteries of the universe, but he loves his friends so he tags along with the plan. Yet Sora turns out to be are protagonist, even if he is a quote “Delivery Boy”. Honestly if Riku had turned out to be the hero it would’ve hampered his character development. Making him sort of an anti-hero who isn’t used to being second best, but now has to deal with being second best due to his own choices, made him a lot more interesting and relatable. I may not like the character too much but in the first game I don’t think you’re suppose to. I felt like I was allowed to view Riku in whatever light I wanted to perceive him in whether good or bad. unlike with Jace I felt like he was forever put up on a pedestal. Jace didn’t work for me, and I will probably never like him. I'm less bitter towards Riku now, especially now that I'm older and I understand some of his actions.
(I'm not saying these stories are copying each other.)
Hm, that is an interesting comparison, although I don't view Simon as a hero in...any sense, really, hahah. Except that he eventually gets his super vampire powers and is actually able to participate in the saving the world plans. I understand the comparison, although I still like Jace better than Riku, hahah. (But I think that has less to do with Riku's character than the rabid fangirls for him on the internet. Him and Axel I just...ugh, their fangirls ruined them for me.) You're right about Riku has the anti-hero; I wouldn't have liked him being the Keyblade master, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I was a fan of his story or not. I don't think he was ever "under the control of" the darkness. That was Maleficent slowly corrupting him; he still made the choices he did that put him in a terrible position. It wasn't until much later Xehanort actually took him over, halfway through Hollow Bastion. It was Riku himself up until that point, which is maybe why I dislike him, especially in the first/middle game. (Chain of Memories.)
Though I think his looking for other "worlds" was less world in a literal sense, and more in a metaphorical sense. XD I think he just wanted to get off the island and go somewhere new; like Columbus discovered the "new world" for the Europeans.
Yeah I figured the term "worlds" was being used very loosely as I got older, but then again Disney did make Treasure Planet so I can never tell. I think there was some change going on in Riku between the time Sora last saw him on Destiny Island and the time he bumped into him in Traverse Town. He only got worse from there with his addiction to the darkness (Kinda like Anakin).Still I'm not a big crazy Fangirl of his, but I did enjoy writing his character as an annoying punk who always got bested by Cloud or somebody from another fandom.As for Axel I liked him a lot more then Riku, but he is a Reno copy no doubt. You're right about the fangirls for both of these guys, they go a little crazy on FF.net. That ruined these two for me too. Especially Axel.
Yes, like Anakin. But at least Riku didn't become leader of the dark side or something, hahah. I always thought him and Namine would get along really well. (I never did like Namine much though, hahah.)Axel was a total Reno copy; perhaps why I didn't enjoy him as much as others seemed to (which usually ended up being people who hadn't had much to do with Final Fantasy before Kingdom Hearts). Empahsis on the "especially" for Axel. I really hate how everybody twists up his feelings for Roxas as his best friend as anything more than has been proven. They've made it impossible to see him as just a guy who misses his best friend, like he's supposed to be. ><
All fantasy books contain actual myths in them. The person who wrote Lord of the Rings wasn't the first person to think of everything in that book. They did reaserch and got information from books and websites that describe how people used to actually believe the myths to be true.
Well, Tolkein was the most original there was. I mean, he invented his own languages, so we have to give him a little bit of credit for that.
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I agree with you so very very much. Only god will ever understand the depth of my hatred for Hush Hush. Patch disgusted me. He sexually harasses Nora, and Nora doesn't care at all! I completely understand why God cast that bastard out of heaven! Nora also made me sad. She was so normal in the beginning. She actually felt disturbed and uncomfortable when Patch started harassing her, then suddenly he tries to kill her and she decides she's in love with him?
It's irresponsible to portray this as true love in YA books, and I'm not normally someone who would say something like that! Show it asa sick and unhealthy relationship, show it something that's dangerous and doomed to fail, but don't show it as healthy! It's so far from healthy it makes Edward Cullen look mentally and emotionally balanced!
Also, the amount of slut shaming in the series is depressing too. Can we please stop judging women by their sex lives YA books? It's not right to keep feeding this idea of lust=dirty skank to impressionable girls.