Score

Wouldn't it be easier to fill in the award section for each book? As there are shortlisted, you can either create a new award "The Russian Booker Prize Shortlist" or call these books Nominees of the prize; I personally like the second solution better.

Nente wrote: "Wouldn't it be easier to fill in the award section for each book? As there are shortlisted, you can either create a new award "The Russian Booker Prize Shortlist" or call these books Nominees of th..."

That's a reasonable idea, perhaps. I'm not going to stop you doing that if you want. Though one reason for not doing the first is that you'd create an 'award' separate from the other, main, list for the same award. Not illegitimate, I would say, though I'm not sure of it being the best thing to do, or whether it's within the rules of this site. Seeing as the award page is already on the site, as you know (here - https://www.goodreads.com/award/show/... ), which, as you also point out, along with all the others for any award, actually has a check box to add it to the list as a 'nominee', it would seem to be messing things up a bit to add a separate list. The other thing is that you'd have to add the winners to the 'shortlist' award too, seeing as this list includes them, as does the shortlist itself. So, doing what you suggest, though not a bad idea, seems potentially to muddle things. And, yes, they can be added to the award list via the book's details as either winners (if they are), or as 'nominees', and all end up there, but that doesn't add them as 'shorlist' and they get lost among all nominees, plus a list like this has advantages (see following comment). The best solution would be for Goodreads to add another checkbox to also separate 'shortlist' from 'nominees', to have all 3 categories in the list, so that there we would have that broader, but still selective balance, not just either the winners, or a mass of nominees. Maybe they'll do that later. You can go and ask via help or the librarian group maybe. The ones here that aren't yet on that list, of course, it would be useful to add as 'nominees' now, if anyone wants to do it (I'm sure I'm not alone in having librarian status here), but then that doesn't mark them as being special as 'shortlist nominees' (the 'longlist' is, of course, longer). You could create a new award, as you say, but that would have the disadvantages I mentioned.

Nente wrote: "Wouldn't it be easier to fill in the award section for each book? As there are shortlisted, you can either create a new award "The Russian Booker Prize Shortlist" or call these books Nominees of th..."

And as for 'easier' or maybe 'better' or whatever: I made this list so that not only would it be a list of the shortlist, therefore broader than the winners in the award, but also more selective than all 'nominees' which can also be added via the award section for each book, but also so that people can vote on them. That seems a valid and valuable additional function to this list to me too. Another additional thing is that people can 'like' it and/or vote on it and then it's saved in their liked/voted on lists and they can come back and look at it, not have to remember a book that won the award and find the site's list that way. It's no easier, I would say, than adding each book to the award via the section in the book's details, it's about the same in terms of difficulty, but it has the following advantages 1. Not creating two 'awards' for the same award (which I also imagine might get deleted by admin), 2. Giving a range of books beyond the winners, but not too broad (i.e. all nominees), 3. Making it possible to 'like' it and refer to it later, 4. Making it possible to vote on it and gradually build up a picture of the most esteemed books here according to those who have read them (this will take some time and far more votes than now to be really useful, but hopefully will gradually develop), ... Of course it's true that you can see the overall ratings on the page for the award, and see the higher-rated/popular ones, but voting creates a different result, when people compare books (though they have to have read a few of them, it's true, it's not necessarily massively valid unless the votes come from people who have), plus you can see them in order here. Ultimately, of course, the site's own award page could have an option to order them according to rating, to show winners, shortlist and nominees, and maybe even to allow voting, aswell as to 'like' or bookmark the page, but as yet these pages have none of these functions, so therefore a list creates something validly different.

Nente wrote: "Wouldn't it be easier to fill in the award section for each book? As there are shortlisted, you can either create a new award "The Russian Booker Prize Shortlist" or call these books Nominees of th..."

So, basically, people can add the books to the site's list for the award via the award section in the book's details, either as winners, or nominees; they're free to do it, and I, in fact, have done it myself for some of the books (both here and for the NatsBest list I created), as well as actually adding a good bunch of these books to Goodreads myself, along with editing details, adding covers, adding and/or merging editions, merging and/or organising the author pages,, etc., etc., etc., for even more of them, but this list exists for other reasons that just to show they won or were nominated (as I explained above). People are also free to add books that have been in the shortlist that aren't on the site to its database too, and to do much else. This list is what I created, with not a small amount of work, for the reasons I listed, so I hope that's good enough. Maybe I'll get around to adding them all via the main award section as 'nominees' (I'm pretty sure I made sure the winners were all added, but when the next winner comes, that already won't be the case), but other people are free to do that themselves, either now or over time as there are new nominees and winners. Also to try out your first idea, if they think it's a good one, though I'm not keen on that, and fear it might be wasted work the admin would delete, seeing as it's adding the same award as a separate award. I myself don't see the greater ease or quality even, over what I've done in creating this list, of just normally adding them as nominees to the list (as valid as that is, and as much as hopefully it will get done by people's collaboration over time) for the reasons I've already explained: i.e. voting, in order, shortlist: i.e. not just limited to winners or so broad as all nominees, ability to bookmark it via a like and find it via your profile, in addition to the fact that a list probably simply attracts extra attention to the award and the books.

But, yeah, please, you're right that they should be added as nominees via the section in the book's details. Maybe I'll do some of it, but people feel free to do it yourselves. Many hands make light work.

The creating of another award for shortlist isn't my idea, it is suggested in Goodreads help on the award subject. It would seem they aren't planning to add functionality in one award.
Of course I didn't mean to depreciate your work creating this list! But if anyone feels like giving a hand, they'll see by this discussion that there are two options: work on this list or/and edit award information.
I actually started to add the Nominee status for some of these books, but waited to hear from you. There are currently no Nominees listed for the Russian Booker, so if I only add the shortlist there will be no confusion as yet.

Nente wrote: "The creating of another award for shortlist isn't my idea, it is suggested in Goodreads help on the award subject. It would seem they aren't planning to add functionality in one award.
Of course I ..."

Well, hopefully both will develop. I'm all for it. Though, as I say, the reason for the list was to add qualities and functions that the site's list for the award doesn't have, so hopefully people will choose more the 'and' option than the 'or' option. And, yes, it's true that if the shortlist ones are added first, the other nominees are less likely to 'swarm' over them so they get lost in the whole list, but later that could happen, because the publishers themselves even could do it for any book that is nominated, and would probably want to once they realise they can, but, yes, less likely, and would take a while, but all the same it's nice to have a list here that is limited to shortlist but not so narrow as to just be the winners.

Nente wrote: "The creating of another award for shortlist isn't my idea, it is suggested in Goodreads help on the award subject. It would seem they aren't planning to add functionality in one award.
Of course I ..."

Actually, in the end, my main reason for making this list and the other (and I planed a 'Big Book' one too, and maybe one or two others than combine some other prizes, but haven't gotten around to it yet) was simply to create some ordered focus for Russian contemporary literature, where people are attracted to its 'status' as an award (of course some books get no awards, or maybe even don't get published, but might actually be as good or better), get that limited focus of that one award, get a good selection of books (not just winners) and get to bookmark it, vote, see ratings, etc., etc,, so that people will pay more attention to these books and the awards; and therefore to Russian contemporary literature in general, so that also meant I hoped it would attract people to edit and add stuff on the site, and give them a convenient list via which to do it, so ultimately you coming here with that suggestion and intention is a good result. I'm hoping other things will happen too. Like, for instance, there are links I provide to the sources for this prize (and others) (something else the site's list cant' do) and therefore people can add other shortlisted books that are not yet on the site. Or, of course, notice any other editing that needs doing, etc. I did loads of adding variants of names of authors to split to alternative pages (latin and cyrillic, different spelling, etc.), merging author pages, adding bios, correcting errors, adding pages or books or editions, merging editions, adding covers, etc., etc., so this list hopefully will not only be a conduit to people discovering the award, the authors and the books, but also to librarians gradually being able to sort out a lot of the mess with Russian books and author pages. So, cool, thanks for the interest.

Nente wrote: "The creating of another award for shortlist isn't my idea, it is suggested in Goodreads help on the award subject. It would seem they aren't planning to add functionality in one award.
Of course I ..."

Oh yeah, and if the site actually suggest the separate shortlist 'award' as a solution, then it seems the won't delete it and therefore it's a perfectly valid idea.

(though I'd add that that demonstrates yet again how either unable or unwilling the site is to develop its function, when there are lost of things that could make it better but seem not to be likely to happen, maybe because the original set-up of the site limits future development; you'd think it would be an easy thing to add the functionality of having 'winner', 'shortlist/finalist' and 'nominee', but it seems it isn't.)