Sheila Wray Gregoire's Blog, page 32

Can Research and Christian Relationship Advice Go Hand in Hand?

Why is it that so many Christian books steer clear of actual research?

Today’s post is a little self-serving (well, maybe a lot) because we’re about to close our latest survey for women, and we’d love about 1000 more responses today! So if you’re a woman, please take it! (doesn’t matter if you’re married or not, a mom or not, 19 or 69, we’d love your input!).

We’re working on a book for moms of daughters, and we’d like to make it as research-based as possible.

Last year, I was talking to a man who frequently gave a marriage talk at an annual men’s retreat. 

In the past, he had always used the book Love & Respect as his starting point, but he had read my critiques of the book, and was disturbed by them. He decided he couldn’t in all good conscience use his past materials, and so he needed something new. He asked if I had another book to recommend, and I told him that John Gottman’s The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work was awesome. It was our control book when we were applying our healthy sexuality rubric to the best-selling evangelical resources, and it scored the best (it tied with The Gift of Sex by the Penners). 

Yes, it was a secular book, I said, but even if he just took the information about The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse in marriage and gave a talk on that, it would be really interesting.

So he went out and bought Gottman and was blown away. He had never read a book like that, with research, that went deep into topics but was accessible. He asked me, “why aren’t Christian books like this?”

And I didn’t have an answer, except to say that I was trying to change that.

When I checked Twitter on Saturday morning, I was greeted by what I think is one of the nicest things anyone could say about The Great Sex Rescue: He compared us to Gottman.

A licensed marriage counselor, professor, and Ph.D. candidate that I don’t know at all said this:

Here’s something that needs to be said about Christian self-help books:
they need to be well researched.

For instance, @sheilagregoire’s ‘Great Sex Rescue’ is stellar qualitative research that is also Biblically informed.

Books can be both.

1/6 pic.twitter.com/g4j6Dbv6T4

— Branden Henry LPC, LMFT, CSAT (@BrandenHenry) May 16, 2021

His whole thread is great, and I’m going to paste it below (with slight editing because I’m not constrained by character count):

Here’s something that needs to be said about Christian self-help books: they need to be well researched.

For instance, Sheila Wray Gregoire’s ‘The Great Sex Rescue’ is stellar qualitative research that is also Biblically informed.

Books can be both.

To be blunt, so much of Christian literature on topics like marriage, sex, abuse, mental health, manhood, recovery is just lazy. Instead of doing the difficult work of researching an idea, many authors trust their experiences as absolute.

“This worked for me, so it will work for you.”

Or even worse,

“This worked for me, and here is some Scripture to support my thesis, so it should work for you because it’s Gods way of doing so”

This is not only lazy, but potentially harmful, and I’d say, dishonoring to God & his church.

Anecdotal ≠ True for the masses

Years ago, when I started working on a book on marriage, a mentor challenged me to make it as well grounded in research as any non-Christian marriage book.

At first, this seemed nearly impossible compared to the Gottman literature that I’m trained in.

But, why not?

Many of us have been conditioned to think research takes away from biblical truths.

But again, that’s just lazy.

We ought to set an even higher bar for ourselves. Excellent research can display the excellency of Christ and we shouldn’t be afraid of it.

So, as a licensed counselor, licensed marriage therapist, PhD student & professor, I want to publicly say:

Thanks Sheila, Rebecca and Joanna for writing a book that took both scripture and research seriously.

It’s been a breath of fresh air.

Branden Henry

Twitter Thread

We are so thrilled at how many counselors and pastors are recommending The Great Sex Rescue!

We heard from another pastor in Texas who created a Bible study for men based on our book, and who is taking his men’s group through it right now. We’re going to have him on the podcast when that group is done to talk about it!

The Great Sex RescueChanging the conversation about sex & marriage in the evangelical church. What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! We’re hoping and praying that we can set a new standard in Christian marriage and parenting advice, where it won’t just be someone’s opinion.

Jesus said that we will know them by their fruit. We have to be willing to test things. If something doesn’t work, then we have to say, “Maybe the interpretation of Scripture that this advice is based on is faulty.” But instead, we tend to just give advice that we say is backed up by God without seeing if it ever works.

This is something Christians especially seem to have trouble with. Two weeks ago I argued that pastors should stop insisting that husbands make the final decision in the marriage, because we know that the vast majority who believe the husband should don’t actually practice it–so they’re preaching what they don’t practice. Most decide things together. But then, if they do actually live it out, very bad things happen.

I was hoping that we could talk about the fact that very bad things do, indeed, happen. But instead almost all the conversation from people disagreeing with me on social media and on the blog revolved around “but the Bible says…” It’s like people wouldn’t even engage with the research if it didn’t say what they wanted it to say.

This is a problem that Christians have. We don’t seem to understand that “the fruit” actually is worth looking at. We’re so wedded to our own interpretations of Scripture and what that says about marriage that we won’t look at the real world implications.

But this stuff does have real world implications, and that should not scare us.

If we know that Jesus is real (which He is), and that He loves us (which He does), and that He is Truth (which He is), then seeking out research doesn’t put any of that in jeopardy. It simply helps us know God and understand God better.

We have so many different ways of looking at parenting and marriage. How do we know what interpretation of Scripture is right? Well, Jesus gave us a clue when He said:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.  You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?  Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.  A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Matthew 7:15-20

Obviously not all research is equal (as I showed in relation to Shaunti Feldhahn’s treatment of date rape in For Young Women Only or in the survey that formed the basis for Love & Respect), but I hope that we can at least be discerning enough to ask tough questions and to at least consider the fruit.

One of the peer-reviewed papers we’re working on for publication right now looks at the quality of research and advice given in the best-selling Christian marriage & sex books, and how that’s influenced counseling. Of the 13 books we surveyed, less than a dozen peer-reviewed papers were cited. That’s not less than a dozen per book; that’s less than a dozen across all 13 books. The vast majority of Christian books make assertions with absolutely no research to back it up. (In my books, I’ve always cited peer-reviewed sources, even before The Great Sex Rescue project).

Seriously, John Gottman’s book is great, and I’m glad others think The Great Sex Rescue fits in that category.

But this should have been what Christians were doing all along.

And so I’m asking you–will you help me do just this? Will you help by filling out our survey (if you haven’t already?). We need to close it in the next few days, so please take it now! 

(And you can share this link with your friends, too: https://www.research.net/r/baremarria...

Are You a Woman? Take Our New Survey!

Help us write a book for moms of daughters by filling out this survey.

Take me to it!

And thank you so much for helping us with this survey! We’re seeing some trends that we are so excited to talk about over the next little while. Stay tuned!

 

UPDATE: I was talking with my daughter Katie on the phone this morning after this was published, and telling her about the Twitter thread that made us all happy this weekend, and about the problem with research. And she reminded me of something I should have mentioned–how even when Christians DO try to bring research in, we often do it wrong!

We did a podcast a few weeks ago on how Emerson Eggerichs has said for almost 20 years now that 85% of men stonewall, when the real stat is that 85% of stonewallers are male.

To understand the difference, the majority of murderers are male, but the majority of men do not murder (thank goodness). There’s a big difference! And that’s a pretty huge logical error to make. But his publisher missed it, and he’s been repeating it on his blog and in his sermons for years. You can take a look at the podcast where we talk about this here!

Why do you think Christian resources tend to shy away from research? Does it matter? How can we change this (f we should)?

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Big Survey #2 Is Here! We Need Your Help!

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100th Podcast Episode! Let’s Talk What Makes Sex Dehumanizing

It’s our 100th episode of the Bare Marriage Podcast, and we’re a day late!

I think this is the first time the podcast has ever been late. Figures, eh? We had some technical difficulties with the sound for half the podcast and we had to refilm. But it’s all here now!

And sprinkled throughout the podcast are some encouragement messages that some listeners sent in. We just loved those! If you sent one in and it didn’t make it, we’ll try to put it into other podcasts coming up. And you can send yours here!

But here we go, with our 100th episode!

Listen to the Podcast Here Browse all the Different Podcasts See the Last “Start Your Engines” (Men’s) Podcast Or, as always, you can watch on YouTube:

 

 

Timeline of the Podcast

0:20 100 Episodes! How we got to where we are today
2:40 Message from a listener!
4:30 Is sex always dehumanizing outside of marriage?
12:30 NEW SURVEY ALERT!
13:10 Waited for the wedding vs slept with fiance
18:30 Messages from listeners!
20:45 How Focus on the Family answered a coersive sex situation
46:20 Message from a listener!
48:40 RQ: Reclaiming your sexuality after betrayal by partner’s porn use?
59:50 Final message from a listener, and finishing off with encouragement!

Main Segment: Is Sex Outside of Marriage Always Dehumanizing?

A little over a month ago, Tim Keller tweeted this out, and it made quite the stir.

Sexual love--if it’s not expressed in an exclusive, life-long covenant relationship--is dehumanizing.

— Timothy Keller (@timkellernyc) March 31, 2021

He got a lot of pushback from two sides:Those saying that outside of marriage people can still be committed and treat each other wellThose saying that inside of marriage, sex can still be coerced, shallow, or degrading

I think both camps are right, and we talked about it today.

Believing in a biblical sexual ethic (that sex is meant for marriage) does not mean that there isn’t room for nuance to be honest about what’s going on in couple’s lives. We try to tease that out today.

Keller wrote a follow-up thread which was much better further explaining what he meant, but we still think he could have gone further. All of us know couples who aren’t married but are basically committed to each other for life who have great sex, and I don’t think we have to ignore that fact, or pretend it doesn’t exist, to still believe in a biblical sexual ethic. Eric Sentell, from PS I Love You, wrote a great article showing rebutting this idea that the wedding ring determines whether sex is dehumanizing or not using our arguments from The Great Sex Rescue, and it’s worth a read!

Speaking of Dehumanizing Sex–let’s remember that sexual coercion in marriage happens

We’ve spent the week analyzing the long-form answers from our survey, and we were really saddened by how many stories of marital rape we found. Marital rape and coercion are far more common than we may believe. So Joanna, when she was trying to procrastinate this week, did some searches on the Focus on the Family website to try to find posts on rape in marriage. She found very few, and no good ones.

She did, however, find this question on the Focus on the Family Canada website:

My husband is constantly badgering me to have sex. When I respond that I’m not in the mood, he gets angry and tells me that there are all kinds of things that he does for me when he’s “not in the mood”—like going to work, washing the dishes, helping with the housework. I’ve tried to explain that it’s not the same thing, but either he isn’t listening or he doesn’t believe me. Is there something wrong with me? What can I do to smooth these troubled waters? Focus on the Family Canada

Q&A: Sexual misunderstanding (wife’s viewpoint)

We look at how they didn’t warn about possible coercion in this answer, even though many women reading that question likely do have coercion in their marriage.Reader Question: How Do I Reclaim My Sexuality While My Husband is in Recovery for Sex Addiction?

Michael John Cusick, author of Surfing for God, and podcaster at Restoring the Soul, joined me for this one!

How can a woman who lives with a man active in sexual addiction reclaim her own sexuality and feel good about her sexual self while waiting for him to seek recovery?

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! Things Mentioned in This Podcast:The Great Sex Rescue! Our survey! Please fill it out, women!Support us on Patreon--even for as little as $3 or $5 a month!Michael John Cusick’s Site, his book Surfing for God, and his Restoring the Soul podcastTim Keller’s Twitter Thread–and check out the post by Eric Sentell refuting it, using our book.Focus on the Family Canada article about consent The Honeymoon Course

 

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts On Christian Women & Mother Bears

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18 Things to Tell Your 16-Year-Old Son about Sex and Relationships

What do you wish you could go back in time and say to your husband at 16 to encourage him?

Or what do you want to say to your teenage son?

I know it’s Thursday and it’s podcast day, but we hit a technical snag this week and we had to re-record some of it yesterday and Katie didn’t have time to edit it all. It will likely go live this afternoon, and then I’ll run the podcast post tomorrow. So sorry about that!

Today I thought I’d revisit something we talked about recently: new advice you’d give a teenage boy, that you may not have thought to give 10 years ago.

We’re in the middle of planning out our book to moms of daughters, and we have a HUGE survey going on (if you’re female, please take it! it helps us so much! And you don’t have to be married for this one).

It’s got us thinking about the advice we give to teens. So following up on my post about what we’d all say to our teenage selves at 16, I asked on Facebook about what you’d say to your husband at 16 about sex and relationships. Once again, I got some amazing answers, and distilled them down to these themes:

Attraction and arousal are not disgusting and sinful.

“Noticing isn’t lusting. Being attracted to someone doesn’t mean you are lusting. You’re allowed to feel attraction without shame. Being a man does not make you a sexually deviant monster- your actions do.”

“You don’t have to feel shame if you have a high drive of sexual attraction right now. This is biologically normal for your age for this to be present and you do not have to feel like you are sinning. Also, don’t fall into the trap of resenting the women you feel lust towards. They do not hold responsibility for your reaction to them. It isn’t a situation where anyone is at fault. The issue isn’t having a sex drive, but what you do with it in how you allow it to impact the way you view and treat others. Take this time to learn how to interact with all people in a honoring, respectful way regardless of what degree of attraction you do or do not have towards them, and be kind and patient with yourself in that process of learning how to do it.”

2. Be Careful of Addictions

“You can’t have a real love relationship while viewing porn. Viewing porn subconsciously teaches you that women are objects to be used at your discretion, not beautiful beings created in the image of God! Almost every guy I’ve met through my men’s groups has admitted their porn addiction started years before they seriously started dating or got married. They never had the experience of “dating” without that toxic view…. it’s very sad. I must add that I fit into this category also and it’s the number 1 thing I wish I could change about my past.”

“DO NOT USE PORN. If you come across it, or get curious, it’s not the end of the world, but seek out wisdom from others and STOP USING IT.”

“Video games are more addictive than you think, and you don’t have as much self control against them as you think.”

3. Relationships don’t define your worth.

“Someone finding you attractive or not does not define your worth. Marriage doesn’t make you worthy, Jesus makes you worthy.”

“It’s important to be whole as a person before looking for a mate because your happiness and purpose should never be tied to another person- even your mate. Don’t be afraid of it falling apart. Don’t settle for a bad relationship just to have a relationship.”

4. No means no. Trying to change her mind is manipulation.

This was probably the most common theme in all the answers from the (predominantly) women on the Facebook page!

“A reluctant “yes” after 200 “no”s should be treated as a “no” as well.”

“No means no. Don’t ever push or manipulate a woman into anything she isn’t comfortable with.”

“Do not try figure out if she is saying “no”. You want to hear a clear, confident “YES”. But do not take her “no” as a rejection of your value.”

“A drunk girl is never an invitation to do what you want. See her home safe.”

“No means no. Just because it’s accompanied by a smile or a giggle does Not make it mean yes.”

“‘Most marriage books will tell you that young men & men are these crazy beings that have almost animal like sexual instincts with no control. That is NOT the norm.’”

5. You Can Say No, too!

But the women also wanted the guys to know that they shouldn’t feel pressured, either. 

“Prepare in advance how you will react when a girl offers herself to you. “

“You’re allowed to say no too. It doesn’t make you any less of a man when a girl is trying to push you too far. Respect each other.”

6. Keep Sex in Marriage

So many had advice on how to reserve sex for marriage, including not getting into tempting situations.

“If you respect her body and save intercourse for marriage, you prove to her your ability to be faithful for life, through health issues, pregnancy, period, etc.”

“Girls often think giving you sex or physical intimacy will buy your love. You both need to know that it won’t. You won’t love her more for being physical with you, and she doesn’t love you more if she is.”

7. It’s okay to break up and go back to being friends.

“It’s ok to break up with someone and move to just friendship. It doesn’t have to be awkward or weird.”

“If you “mess up” or “go too far” with a girl, it doesn’t mean you have a special connection to her or need to make a special commitment to her. Evaluate the health of your relationship and take responsibility for your actions.”

8. You can’t save girls who are being abused or who are traumatized.

“I would tell my sons to be extremely cautious about helping girls that say they are in abuse and scared. I would tell them to report those kinds of issues to an authority figure immediately. “

“Don’t take so much responsibility for other people’s actions or try to fix their mess ups.”

9. Masculinity and Femininity Are Tricky–but they don’t always have to be

“The differences among men and the differences among women are MUCH greater than the differences between men and women. An average man is different than an average woman, sure, but relationships don’t exist between averages, they exist between individuals. It’s way more important to get to know an individual woman and HER preferences and desires than to waste your time trying to figure out “what women want.”

“It can be very hard to be a boy/man. You are given a VERY narrow lane of what you are allowed to do and be and be accepted as “masculine.” This is a burden you must work to change but it is unfair and hard. That’s important to acknowledge.”

“God designed you to be an awesome, godly man with a unique purpose… don’t let the cultural norms of manliness define your success or failure as a “real man”.

10. Remember that women are individuals.

’You may not understand “women” because they’re individuals and no matter what some influencer or pastor told you, there’s no “secret” to cracking us because we are all different.”

“Don’t lump all women together or use broad categories, even if various adult leaders in your life tell you to. Invest the time and energy to get to know the women and girls for your life as individuals. Hear them when they speak to you about their needs, wants, frustration, dreams, sense of humor, passions. When getting to know a woman, don’t give more weight to a stereotype, book, or relationship class than the actual woman herself telling you about herself.”

11. Learn to Do Housework.

“Help with the kitchen work! It’s going to do you so much good in the long run.”

“it’s freaking SEXY to hold up your end around the house. Nothing says, “we are a team, and I see you as my equal” in quite the same way.”

“Learning to clean and pick up after yourself is a must!”

12. Make friends with girls. They’re not a weird species.

“Make friends with girls! It’s ok to be friends with the opposite sex. Women are not some strange “other” species. And, newsflash, girls enjoy A LOT of the same activities you do. (My sister and I enjoy fishing waaaay more than our husbands do, lol)”

“Treat all girls decently and with respect. Good manners are attractive. Have healthy friendships with girls. Listen to them, get to know their point of view. “

“Girls make great friends! Be friendly, have fun, and get to know a great group of friends. And then someday you may find that you want to spend the rest of your life with that certain friend, and you’ll already feel comfortable with her and know her well because of the friendship you built.”

“it is really fulfilling and fun to have non-sexual relationships with women. That will help him work out what kind of person he might one day want to marry. He needs female friends.”

“Girls are not a mysterious different species and they aren’t sex objects. They are just people and you should talk to them, hang out with them, and care about them as people first and foremost.”

13. Strong romantic relationships are based on friendship first.

“Make sure you are still friends, and friends first, because romance and intimacy aren’t always going to happen. If the “hot and heavy” emotions are what’s carrying a relationship, it’s not going to last. If you can’t like or enjoy or be with a person beyond the romance and intimacy and fluttery crush feelings, it’s not a real relationship. And TALK. Talk about everything. Your hopes, your dreams, your goals, your beliefs. While dating, don’t back down from those conversations. Don’t even amend them just to match or impress whoever you’re dating. Be yourself. That’s the truest way see if a relationship is going to move beyond just “more than friends.”

“Look at your girlfriend/wife as an individual. It’s ok if she doesn’t think just like you, in fact it’s much better that way! Respect her and value her thought processes, and don’t think that when she challenges something you think or disagrees with you that it is disrespectful of you. Accept your differences and learn to work together to find what matters most in your relationship and in your life together.”

“It’s normal and healthy to find girls attractive, but healthy relationships start with knowing each other’s hearts first and building emotional intimacy.”

14. Periods are a thing. See them in a healthy way. And learn about sex ed!

“Periods are not gross, or dirty. And, women who suffer with mood swings, extreme pain, heavy bleeding, nausea, food cravings, fatigue, etc. during their period ARE NOT CRAZY or irrational or any of those utterly awful stupid things some guys say. Women suffering an awful period are just that, suffering. We are still rational, thinking, valuable people. This is a time to love and support her. I imagine you will find her moods less “crazy” if you have compassion for what’s happening to her.”

“PMS is a thing. Be tolerant, and sometimes the less said, the better.”

“Don’t be squeamish about periods. The best boyfriends & husbands understand & bring chocolate.”

“Educate yourself about sex. Like, ask men you trust and don’t be afraid to learn about it. Please.”

15. Seek God with your whole heart.

So many people left a variation of this one!

“Get in the word!”

“Really get to know Christ….not just doing religious activities, but knowing him personally.”

16. Be Who God Made You to Be

“If you have dreams, or feel a real calling for something, don’t let others tell you you’re too dumb or not good enough. Don’t put limits on yourself.”

“It’s okay to not have your parents’ approval in every aspect of your life. You can’t please everyone. Focus on pleasing God.”

“What God thinks of you matters more than how the world judges you.”

“It is great if you are a “leader” but it is great if you are not in a specific situation or if your personality strengths are different. Or if you choose to let others lead. You are NOT required to be a leader to be a man. At work, in a marriage or anywhere.”

“You don’t have to struggle fighting between the world’s ways and what the Bible tells you. If God says to do/not do something; that means you can and He will help you. It’s not your strength that matters; it’s being confident in Gods’ strength and love for you. The hard or unpopular decisions you make and stick to now will reap major rewards in your future!”

17. Feel your feelings, don’t run away from them.

“Deal with and get help with your anger.”

“Anger (I’m talking anger, not violence) is not a bad thing, but if you allow your anger to explode on the people you love, it is going to cause emotional wounds that might never fully heal.”

“You are DEEPLY and accepted for who you are, it’s ok to ask for help. Boys/men don’t get enough acknowledgement of how much they need to feel loved and encouraged.”

“Boys and men need human connection and relationships as much as girls and women. This is HUMAN. Anyone who says otherwise is being sexist against men (or needs more education).”

“Don’t bottle up. There’s nothing wrong with feelings or emotions and appropriately expressing yourself”

“It’s okay to have feelings. And you have the right to have those feelings listened to and validated by the people around you.”

“Finding a safe person you can share your feelings with is *so important.*

18. BE the Change.

Next to all the “no means no” advice, the one that seemed to have the most emotion behind it was this one, with many women saying a variation of it:

“Be the guy who doesn’t laugh at sexism. Be the guy who calls out other guys for bad behavior. Be the guy who doesn’t “rate” women by their appearance (or the appearance of specific body parts). Be the guy that celebrates the accomplishments of women,, and lifts them up,, without any expectation of a reward. Be the guy who knows women as the image-bearers of Christ that they are and speaks it over them, about them, to them, and to others.”

“You have a duty not only to respect women and their autonomy, but to speak up and against other men he sees disrespecting it, even if it’s just “between bros” talk.”

“Just because you don’t experience it doesn’t mean it’s not happening to other people. Learn to listen and empathize with other people. Women are people too.”

“If it’s not enough to not be that guy, you have to speak up when other guys are being that way, including and especially at church. Question church teaching that makes women less than, even if it’s not explicitly stated. They’ll take you more seriously than us.”

“Call out other guys if they’re acting like jerks.”

As Terry Crews said, “You’re not the big boss man just because you can make people do what you tell them to do. You’re a real boss when you can make YOU do what you tell YOURSELF to do.”

Again, really interesting insight on what teenage boys need to hear! 

I think many of the themes we said to girls apply, too, especially about not believing someone just because they’re an adult and how it’s okay to think for yourself, so consider these just an add-on to what was said to girls. 

And, again, I’ll end with a few from Facebook that deserve to be run just as they are!

[image error] In The Whole Story, our puberty course for moms/daughters or dads/sons, we talk a lot about healthy relationships.

We talk about boundaries, and dating, and sex, and so much more. Especially in the older versions of the courses, we can help you have those conversations with your kids. We start the conversations–you can finish them. If you want to make sure that you’re having these healthy conversations with your kids, check it out. My sons-in-law David and Connor do a great job sharing their experiences with the guys, too.

You're telling me WHAT goes WHERE?!

Talking about sex with your kids doesn't always go smoothly. 

That's why we created The Whole Story, our online course that walks parents through the tough conversations and does the hard parts for you!

Learn More!

Did we miss something? What would be your #19? Or is there something you’d take out? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts To The Transformed Wife: Obligation Sex Isn’t Biblical.

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Not So Groovy, Baby: Did Evangelical Sex Advice Get Stuck in the 1970s?

How do our evangelical sex books contribute to women feeling responsible for men’s sexual sins?

Anxious Bench, a blog on Patheos, has just published one of my guest posts where I talk about how evangelical sex advice kind of peaked in the 1970s with Tim LaHaye and The Act of Marriage–but then didn’t evolve very much to include more about sex as something which is intimate and just as much for women.

Instead, our books tend to emphasize that sex is about a man’s need, and women need to have frequent sex to keep men from straying.

Think about how that message affects women like Anna Duggar, whose husbands are caught in porn scandals (although Josh Duggar went far further than that to Child Sexual Abuse Materials). 

I touched on many of our best-sellers, and even Rachael Denhollander’s awesome Facebook post and Twitter thread from the weekend. 

Here’s how we began:

It’s highly unlikely that Queen Victoria ever advised a young protégé on the eve of her nuptials to “lie back and think of England,” despite the urban legend. In fact, the Queen, who bore nine children to a husband she adored, probably enjoyed an enthusiastic love life with her Albert, and many historians suspect she had an active sex life after her husband’s death.

But the era which was named after her popularized women’s sexual reticence. As men left to work in factories, women kept the home fires burning. The “angel of the house” archetype of the wife was born: the pure, godly, submissive woman who tamed the more base desires of the husband so the family could flourish.

This idea dovetailed nicely with the church’s emphasis on the nuclear family, and since the church had such influence over society’s sexual norms, this view remained preeminent for over a century.

And then the sexual revolution hit.

Anxious Bench

Not So Groovy, Baby

We then took a romp through several of our best-sellers to see how they doubled down on the message about sex is primarily for men–and women were the ones who were supposed to tame men’s baser instincts by satiating them with enough sex. 

Emerson Eggerichs tells women that their husbands will “come under satanic attack when deprived of physical release,” and claims “men are often lured into affairs because they are sexually deprived at home.” The solution? A wife should “minister to her husband sexually…as unto Jesus Christ,” especially since it takes “such a short amount of time.” Anxious Bench

Not So Groovy, Baby

Please read the whole thing! And please share it!

I’d love to send a ton of people to Anxious Bench, so that we can show we can bring the traffic–and maybe guest post more!

Read the whole thing!

I feel like we honestly are changing the conversation. We’re finally moving on from the 1970s. And I hope that in all of our communities, we’ll spread the message that women aren’t responsible for men’s porn use (let alone men’s use of child sexual abuse materials).

There probably are women in your circle going through this, even if they don’t talk about it. So the more we say loudly, “women aren’t responsible for men’s sexual sins”, the more we can help those who are afraid to ask for help and feeling shame.

Instead of asking you for comments here, like I normally do, I’m going to ask you to go comment on the Anxious Bench post! Thank you!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts PODCAST: Don’t Let Your Voice Be Small Just Because You’re Female

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Big Survey #2 Is Here! We Need Your Help!

We’re embarking on a new book project, and so we have a new survey!

We hope you’ve all been enjoying The Great Sex Rescue! (And if you haven’t read it yet, you really need to. Even if you don’t think your sex life needs rescuing. So many people have told us, “I didn’t think I needed this book, but I bawled all through chapter 5!)

But now we’re working on book #2 for Baker Books, which will be a book for moms of daughters. We want to talk about how to navigate the teenage years and how to make sure your daughter doesn’t grow up needing to read The Great Sex Rescue later.

So we’ve put together another survey. It’s not QUITE as long as the first one (if you did the first one), though it does come close, so you will need about 15 minutes. And you will find some of the questions the same (along with a whole lot of new ones!).

We’d appreciate your time so much.

And you don’t have to be married or be a mom to take the survey.

You don’t even need to be a Christian! Just any woman who was once a teenager (so that’s all of us!). We’d like a ton of Christians, but if we have a bunch of people who didn’t grow up in the church for comparisons, that’s a good thing too.

Are You a Woman? Take Our New Survey!

Help us write a book for moms of daughters by filling out this survey.

Take me to it! The book will likely be out fall of 2022, and we’ll be using the data to write some articles for peer-reviewed journals as well.

But we’ll have so much fun filling you all in on some of our findings, potentially even before the book launches. And we’ve had so many requests for parenting materials that we’re looking at how to incorporate more of this in the podcast, too.

Please spread the survey around as well! Here’s the link: https://www.research.net/r/baremarriagehs

Thank you so much, and we look forward to analyzing all your results!

Anything in particular you want us to say about raising girls to not need The Great Sex Rescue? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Pastors: Watch How You Talk about Marriage, Because You Could Be Hurting Your Congregants

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On Christian Women & Mother Bears

Can I share some random thoughts I had this Mother’s Day about protecting the vulnerable around us?

Let me start with recounting how my Mother’s Day began. My mom and I went on a walk with Rebecca and her son Alex (four generations!) by the waterfront trail where we live.

At the waterfront trail, we found a number of geese families, together with about a dozen goslings each.

My grandson’s favourite things in the world are ducks and geese, and these were our first sightings of babies. So it was a BIG DEAL.

The geese, however, were not very peaceful. Four of them kept fighting, because the babies kept swimming back and forth between different adults, and it seems like the adults were laying claim and stating ownership of said babies. Alex was thrilled by all the honking and wing flapping.

But that’s what mothers do. We fight to protect our babies.

That’s good and right.

But what if our religious communities tell us that it’s a sin to do that? Then we’re stuck between two very strong, very opposing forces. Every fibre in our being may want to protect our kids, but we also believe that the God we serve would think that’s a sin.

Allow me to invite Rachael Denhollander to explain. After Josh Duggar’s charges were released, including the fact that he had hundreds child sexual abuse materials (child porn) of children as young as toddlers on a hidden hard drive, Rachael, who led the fight against Larry Nassar and is a sexual abuse victim advocate, had to speakout. She wrote a long Twitter thread about the Josh Duggar situation, and how women are routinely blamed for men’s sins, and bear the cost of men’s sins, while men are often excused. It was very good. I shared it on Facebook, and allow me to quote some of it (it’s so good I wish I could quote the whole thing):

When Josh was arrested, his father began calling people in the church asking them to be Josh’s custodian until trial, so that he could be released on bail. He found a man willing to take him in. Except that man’s wife teaches piano lessons to children, and she was not comfortable having Josh home with her all day, because she would be alone with him while her husband was at work.

That didn’t matter to the husband, however. She has to find a new place to teach all those children because her husband wants Josh to live with them until his trial. Every single family who takes piano from her, and the wife herself, has to uproot their routine, livelihood and the child’s music education, because Josh. Everyone is expected to bear the cost, except Josh.

And the wife’s own very reasonable fears about being alone all day with a man who enjoys the sexual torture of toddlers didn’t matter to the husband either. The FBI agent recommended to the judge that Josh be kept in custody, especially since the wife was afraid to have him in the home. But when she was called to the witness stand and asked if she was in agreement with having Josh live with them, she responded that “her husband had made the decision, and she was here to support him”.

Because under that theology he has the authority and her job is to submit. No matter what…

Everyone – EVERYONE else, from Josh’s own children, to a woman afraid to have him in the home, to his own wife, are bearing the risks and costs of his behavior. And they are being told it is godly and right to do it.

Each man in the situation, from Josh’s dad, (who isn’t protecting his own grandkids or caring about the risks to anyone else), to the husband who decided it was fine despite his wife’s very justified fear, make the decisions. The women and children who pay the price, are expected to submit, forgive, and support, no matter how foolish or wicked the decision….

But we don’t think it’s a big deal in Christian culture because we’ve also peddled the “boys will be boys” mindset. Except we’ve added Scripture to it, and told women they’re responsible for men’s lust and addictions. That if they don’t have sex enough, his needs won’t be met and he’ll stray. We’ve talked about his sexual needs like it’s impossible to go more than a few days without release, but couched her sexuality as existing solely for his benefit. We’ve turned women into dangerous beings who control whether men “fall”, and also into the solution for it. And yes, defining women and sexuality this way is the norm, it’s not the exception. Telling women to be more sexually available to help their husband keep it in his pants is the norm, not the exception. Women are taught as the cause and solution to men’s sexual perversions.

Until our theology changes to actually reflect Scripture, we shouldn’t be surprised at any of this. It’s a story I see every single day. It’s wicked. It’s evil. And it’s long past time that we called it that – not just the abuse, but the twisted theology that fuels it.

Rachael Denhollander

On Twitter and Facebook

I wrote my own thread about Josh Duggar, to elaborate on some of what Rachael said about how our toxic theology makes his sin our fault, but also how our toxic theology sexualizes children. 

Now that Josh Duggar has been indicted on possession of Child Sexual Abuse Materials (child porn), some depicting toddlers, we must confront the sexualization of children in evangelicalism.

Let’s start with teenagers, and go all the way down to toddlers.

Shaunti Feldhahn, in For Young Women Only, tells girls “82% of boys feel little ability and little responsibility to stop the sexual progression.” Telling girls that boys have “little ability” to stop legitimizes date rape and puts the blame at the girl’s feet.

Furthermore, in a post to teenage girls, she warns that their date’s dad will be tempted to “visually take in, linger on, and fantasize about all the details of this great body he’s seeing.” Let that sink in. Teens are being told that it is normal for adult men to sexualize them….

What about toddlers? In For Women Only, Shaunti Feldhahn is making a case for the “male brain”, that men are visual from the earliest ages. She tells an unfortunate story of her son at 4: his “tummy felt funny” when seeing Victoria Secret models’ tummies, sounding like arousal.

She tells a similar story in Through a Man’s Eyes, where a 3-year-old gets an erection from looking at sewing patterns for women’s underwear. She says men have this male brain whether they’re “nine or ninety.”

Curiosity is normal in toddlers. Playing doctor is normal. Touching one’s genitals is normal, as is getting erections in boys. But adult male sexual response and arousal in pre-pubescent children? Definitely not normal.

If these stories were told in a pediatrician’s office, they would warrant follow-up screening questions for child sexual abuse, according to my husband, an examiner in pediatrics for the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons in Canada.

Beyond that, this is the EXACT SAME argument made by pedophiles for lowering the age of consent. They argue that toddlers & young children have sexual feelings the same way adults do. Our evangelical resources should not be making the same arguments as pedophile lobbying groups.

Twitter Thread

Some days I just feel sick when I look at how deep this stuff goes.

It’s like Alice in Wonderland, looking down the hole. Once you venture through, it’s amazing how deep it all goes. It’s very sobering.

But I was doing pretty well on Saturday and Sunday for the most part. I dealt with all of this on Friday, and I was putting it behind me and enjoying my family.

And then I saw Al Mohler tweet a slaveholder to justify restricting the rights of women–all on Mother’s Day. 

Al Mohler is extremely influential in the SBC, the largest denomination in the United States. He is head of their largest seminary that trains their pastors. And yesterday, on Mother’s Day of all days, Al Mohler resurrected a slaveholder (one of the founders of his seminary), to tweet this:

This is John A. Broadus warning against the practice of women preaching in church worship. This is NOT a new belief or doctrine. Broadus wrote this in 1880. pic.twitter.com/AW7bVxDYYc

— Albert Mohler (@albertmohler) May 9, 2021

John Broadus was a slaveholder. He OWNED HUMAN BEINGS. He founded the seminary supporting slavery, and made theological arguments supporting slavery.

How is he supposed to be a moral authority on how we should consider the rights of women?

And notice how he doesn’t just stop women from preaching; he stops them from speaking at all when men are in the room. And this is supposed to be authoritative.

I was spitting mad last night.

Maybe it’s a Canadian thing; I don’t know. but I simply don’t understand this. I really don’t. I understand wrestling with your history as a people and trying to acknowledge the good that was done even by people who believed bad things at the time, or even acted badly in certain spheres. All countries wrestle with that, and we have our own issues in Canada, especially with the treatment of the Indigenous population.

But I don’t understand considering people who owned human beings as moral authorities when it comes to deciding how much rights you should give another class of human beings.

Thankfully everyone jumped all over him (including me), and I love these two responses:

And, of course, the indomitable Beth:

I don’t know if this stuff makes your blood pressure skyrocket like it does mine.

I want to make it clear: I’m not actually upset at Al Mohler or at JimBob Duggar or at Josh Duggar in some ways. There will always be bad people who make dumb decisions. What I’m upset about is that making such dumb decisions does not result in the church rejecting you or chastising you.

Like, if everyone said, “No way. That’s not of Jesus,” then this would stop. People like this would lose their platform and their support. Their churches and communities would shrink and no longer be influential. We could look to more healthy things.

But instead Al Mohler is still in one of the most powerful positions in the SBC. People still support the Duggars and refuse to see that we have a real problem on our hands with regards to our church culture.

I guess I’m just asking that we act like those mother geese.

When someone tries to attack the vulnerable, let’s call it out and make a big stink. Let’s not just be silent for the sake of peace. Let’s say, “this isn’t acceptable.”

But also–and maybe this is more hopeful (this is what I’m telling myself)–let’s realize that we do have power. I think the reason that people haven’t spoken up, haven’t left bad churches, have tolerated horrible books in Bible studies is because we feel like we don’t have a choice. EVERYBODY else believes this; we’re all alone. So we have to just go with the program or we’ll lose everything.

What if that’s not true? What if there’s a groundswell that will no longer tolerate bad stuff? What if speaking up would actually work now?

I think we’ve reached a tipping point. Rachael’s thread went HUGE. Everyone is talking about it. Al Mohler’s tweet backfired big time. People are noticing. They’re speaking up.

And that means you can, too. Together, we can change conversations. We can protect the vulnerable again. We can argue for the dignity of women and children. We can argue that men are not animals. We can argue that we are all made in the image of God.

If you’re looking for some resources to help you start, I highly recommend The Making of Biblical Womanhood by Beth Allison Barr. And check out our rubric and scorecard of evangelical books, too, so that you can see which marriage & sex books scored harmful, and which were helpful.

You’re allowed to be a mother bear. Or a mother goose.

You don’t need to toe the line all the time. You just need to run after Jesus. And if someone is telling you to run in a direction that you know is not healthy–then that person isn’t worth listening to.

 

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now!

What do you think? Are things changing for the better? Do you find more people in your own circle willing to speak up about this? Let me know in the comments! (And I hope for my blood pressure’s sake the answer is yes!)

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts 18 Things I’d Tell 16-Year-Old Me About Sex and Relationships

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To The Transformed Wife: Obligation Sex Isn’t Biblical.

The Bible does not tell women that they can’t refuse sex if their husbands want it. 

This week, The Transformed Wife put up a video disputing what I’ve been saying about sex. I’ve been stressing that biblical sex is MUTUAL, INTIMATE, and PLEASURABLE, and that means that women’s needs matter. Women are not required to provide men with one-sided intercourse on demand. 

She was objecting in particular to this graphic that I created:

(I have more of those on my Instagram account, or I posted some on this post!)

For those of you who don’t know Lori Alexander, aka The Transformed Wife, she writes a blog and runs social media channels where she spreads messages about women that are, quite frankly, misogynistic. You can check out her Facebook Page if you want to to find the video, but i don’t recommend reading the comments (they’re very disturbing).

Lori and her husband Ken used to comment on this blog quite frequently years ago until I finally banned them when Ken was defending spanking an 8-month-old baby with a plumbing line. Again, it was very disturbing.

I usually ignore it when she writes about me (she has before), but this one just made me sad, and so I wrote a few posts on my Facebook Page for her fans who may be trying to check me out, telling them that they were precious to Jesus, and that Jesus didn’t want them to be used.

And then yesterday, I created a Facebook Live trying to explain a biblical vision of sex, where BOTH people need to matter. I tried to explain that sex isn’t just about a man’s need, but instead is deep intimacy. I tried to tell the women that God does not love their husbands more than He loves them, and that God is not happy when they suffer.

A number of people asked me to put the video somewhere other than Facebook, because they have friends who need to see it who aren’t on Facebook.

It’s hard to download Facebook videos, so I did a little cheat which makes it not amazing quality. Plus the sound isn’t synced for the first 30 seconds (then it gets good).But this is an important message, and I said it clearly, and I hope women who are in communities where they are told that their husbands are allowed to use their bodies that this is not of Jesus.

As Leslie Vernick says, you are a woman to love, not a body to use.

 

Katie didn’t edit this video and make it pretty; it’s pretty much just my Facebook Live. But it’s heartfelt, and I hope and pray that the people who need to hear it will listen.

CORRECTION: I said in the video that she had blocked me on Facebook; actually I wasn’t blocked. I assumed I was; Lori blocked me on Twitter ages ago. Once I realized I was not blocked, I did go over to her page and share the link to this video. Just wanted to set the record straight.

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! You may also enjoy:The Duty Sex Isn’t Sexy PodcastLet’s talk obligation sex and marital rape PodcastAre you sabotaging yourself with the “duty sex” message?

 

Have you ever been in a “Christian” community where you were told you had to provide sex on demand? Or are you there now? How does that make you feel about sex and marriage? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Fixed It For You! Have You Seen These?

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Pastors: Watch How You Talk about Marriage, Because You Could Be Hurting Your Congregants

May 5, 2021 | 31 Comments

In marriage, should husbands make the final decision if the couple can't reach agreement? Many...

PODCAST: Don’t Let Your Voice Be Small Just Because You’re Female

Can we listen to women’s voices along with men’s voices?

We’ve got a whole variety of segments and interviews in today’s EPISODE 99 of the Bare Marriage podcast, including asking “What would have happened if authors had listened to women?”, a look at Genesis 3:16, and sharing a young husband’s story. 

I invite you to listen in!

Listen to the Podcast Here

Browse all the Different Podcasts

See the Last “Start Your Engines” (Men’s) Podcast

Or, as always, you can watch on YouTube:

 Timeline of the Podcast

Timestamps:
1:30 What would have happened if authors listened originally?
8:20 Our Timeline critiquing books (psst, we didn’t start it!)
19:00 How Narnia can show us a way forward
21:15 Interview with Timothy Thomas on submission and breaking out of unhealthy evangelical teachings
36:30 Interview with Bruce Fleming on what Genesis 3:16 ACTUALLY says
1:00:50 Our 100th Episode is next week – we need your help!
1:02:15 Encouragement of the week

Send Us In a Testimonial for Episode 100!

Next week is episode 100 of the Bare Marriage podcast! 

We’re looking for people to send in a quick audio or video (your choice), roughly 60 seconds (less is fine!), telling us your story.

Start with your first name and city–“Hi, I’m Sandy from Lincoln, Nebraska” (or leave out your town if you’d rather!

Then tell us either:

Your favourite episode and whySomething you’ve learned from the podcast & how it’s changed youOr just general encouragement

Then just email it to us!

Email Us the Video or Audio! Main Segment: What Would Have Happened If?

Joanna joined us for the podcast today, and we asked the question, what would have happened if…

The authors that we identified as having written harmful books had listened to the women who told them, before their books were even published, that their ideas were harmful. We read out passages from Emerson Eggerichs, Shaunti Feldhahn, and Steve Arterburn who all said that they were warned before their books were even writtenFocus on the Family had listened when we first emailed them (and even when we sent the Open Letter)Shaunti Feldhahn had listened when we wrote to her in August, rather than doubling down after our book was publishedMark Gungor had listened to my critique on his Facebook Page and just edited his post, in the same way that Henry Cloud did when he misspoke

It’s been two months now since The Great Sex Rescue was published, and while the sales have been doing very well, and while counselors and regular people have just loved it, the evangelical establishment has yet to speak out about it and confront our findings. We just did the largest study that’s ever been done–and people are choosing to ignore it. That just makes us sad.

Timothy Thomas: How I listened to my wife–and created a healthier marriage

 

Timothy Thomas (@Timothyt_t) is a full-time public school teacher and coach, and a part-time blogger and writer. He is a staff writer for ChristandPopCulture.com. He lives in Fort Worth, Texas.

In September, he wrote an insightful two-part series on his marriage and church journey, and I wanted to invite him in to talk to us about it.

Timothy Thomas

Divorcing White Evangelicalism, Remarrying My Wife

Was Eve Cursed in Genesis 3:16?

Bruce Fleming from Tru316 is on a mission to help us see problematic passages through new eyes by looking at the original language. Today he talks about his interpretation of Genesis 3:16, teaching me some things I’ve never known!

His Eden Podcast covers a number of different Genesis verses, and his Book of Eden goes more in depth into what he told us in this podcast!

Bruce C.E. Fleming

The Book of Eden

Things Mentioned in This Podcast:Timothy Thomas’ articles, Part 1 and Part 2Bruce C.E. Fleming’s Eden podcast and Book of Eden book. The podcast walks through many of the Genesis verses regarding gender and shows us a beautiful picture of wholeness and freedomShannon Ashley’s article about our interaction with Mark GungorThe Great Sex Rescue! Support our Bare Marriage Patreon for as little as $5 a month, and get access to unfiltered podcasts, special merch, and more!Send in your audio or video file here! Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Compassion for Anna Duggar–And How We Judge Success in Marriage

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Pastors: Watch How You Talk about Marriage, Because You Could Be Hurting Your Congregants

In marriage, should husbands make the final decision if the couple can’t reach agreement?

Many Christians would say yes. In fact, in our recent survey of 20,000 women for our new book The Great Sex Rescue, 39.4% agreed with that statement. Many Christians who attend church regularly think that marriage has a form of hierarchy, where the husband holds the tie-breaking vote, or, as Emerson Eggerichs explained in Love & Respect, he holds 51% of the power and she holds 49% of the power (which actually practically results in him holding 100% of the power, but let’s leave that for a moment.)

And believing this seems rather innocuous when we look at the results our survey found on women’s marital and sexual satisfaction. Believing this doesn’t really hurt marriage, and it doesn’t really help it. It’s neutral.

But here’s what’s interesting: Most people who believe this don’t act on it.

Most people who believe that husbands should make the final decision do not actually act this way in marriage. In fact, only 17.9% of couples who profess being Christians actually give the husband the tie-breaking vote. 

More people believe it–but in marriage, they actually decide things together. They make decisions together, or, if they can’t agree, they wait on it. In fact, 78.9% of couples make decisions in a completely collaborative way (a very small minority have her make the decisions).

I would like to say a word to pastors today, then.

Dear pastor, most likely, if you believe that the husband should make the final decision, and you teach that husbands should make the final decision, you are teaching something which you do not personally act out.

And that’s a good thing.

Because bad things happen in marriages that live out this belief.

People in marriages where someone makes the final decision–even if they consult their spouse beforehand–end up 7.4 times more likely to divorce than couples who make decisions together. 

Encouraging the husband to make the final decision can create very, very dysfunctional marriages, and increase the rate of divorce astronomically. And we are not the only ones who found this. John Gottman, of the Gottman Institute, the premier marriage research facility in the world, said this:

Statistically speaking, when a man is not willing to share power with his partner there is an 81 percent chance that his marriage will self-destruct.

John Gottman

Seven Principles for Making Marriages Work

Sharing decision-making power is a key marker of a healthy marriage. 

And, really, this is perfectly intuitive. Part of intimacy is feeling as if you matter; if someone’s opinions matter more than yours in marriage, all sorts of bad things happen. Here’s how we explained it in The Great Sex Rescue:

In marriages with collaborative decision-making, women are almost three times more likely to feel heard during arguments. But when women don’t feel heard, and instead feel as if their opinions are not as important as their husbands’, their marriages are forty-three times more likely to end in divorce. Forty-three times. That may be why we found that the risk of divorce skyrockets in marriages in which the husband is the one who ultimately makes the decisions, even if he consults his wife on them. When we set up marriages where a husband has decision-making power, we create marriages in which his opinions, by definition, matter more than hers. And when women feel their opinions are not given the same weight as their husbands’, sex suffers and marriages crumble.

But here’s some good news: treating each other as equals doesn’t just give you a better marriage—it gives you better sex! When couples share power (make decisions together), wives are four times (4.36) more likely to rate themselves among the happiest 20% of marriages than among the least happy 20%, and are 67% more likely to frequently orgasm during sex.

Gregoire, Lindenbach & Sawatsky

The Great Sex Rescue

And we have a whole chart on the effects of feeling heard in marriage on one’s sex life n the book–including being 9.4 times more likely to say you feel close to your husband during sex, and 6.74 times more likely to say that he makes her pleasure a priority.

When we don’t share decision-making power, it affects all areas of our lives for the worse.

There is also a practical element to this that hurts marriage. In marriage where the expectation is that he will make the final decision if they disagree, couples often forego the healthy back-and-forth that is part of decision-making. They may not wrestle in prayer as long. They may not seek counsel. They may take shortcuts because they assume, “well, he just gets to decide then.” And this can lead to worse decisions, more distance, and even entitlement.

So pastor, understand that when you preach that husbands should make the final decision, you are hurting 18% of the marriages in your congregation.

Most people will listen to this teaching, and may even agree with this, but they won’t practice it. But those who do practice it do not do well. When you are teaching something that you do not even practice yourself, then at some level you know this teaching isn’t right. You know that there is a better way.

So teach that better way.

But what if you believe that there should be hierarchy in marriage?

You can still teach that better way, because there are so many other arguments for it. Two Spirit filled believers should be able to come to agreement on things. After all, chances are in your board of elders, you require unanimity to do things. If you require it in your board, and you assume that it can happen in your board because you are following the leading of the Holy Spirit, then why would you not think that it can happen in marriage?

And remember that the Bible talks about creating the woman as a “suitable helper”. The word “suitable” means equal to him, exactly what he needs. And helper is a warrior term. In other words, he needs her. So why would he dismiss her?

Finally, the Bible teaches us that two are better than one. That iron sharpens iron. That we are meant to help each other. If you silence one half of that equation, then you take away one of the best vehicles that God has put in place to grow the both of you. You end up making one person’s voice small, and making the other more and more selfish.

I am not saying that you have to change your view of marriage (though I hope that you will look more deeply into what some of these passages are saying). But I am saying that, regardless of what you believe about marriage, there is enough in the Bible that shows us clearly that two people being in submission before God, working together, is the ideal. When we allow one person to make a final decision, we short circuit that ideal.

You know this doesn’t work. You don’t act it out yourself. So please, for the sake of those in your church, stop teaching it.

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now!

What do you think? Why do most people who teach and believe this not practice it? Why do we still teach it if we don’t practice it? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Start Your Engines Podcast: What Has Your WIFE Been Taught about Sex?

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18 Things I’d Tell 16-Year-Old Me About Sex and Relationships

I’ve been realizing lately I need to have compassion on younger me who was taught toxic stuff–and didn’t know how to reject it.

And as I shared yesterday in my “Fixed it for you” posts, sometimes I’ve even taught that toxic stuff myself! But when you know better, you do better.

Since The Great Sex Rescue was published two months ago, so many women have sent me emails saying how much the teaching in the evangelical church has messed them up, and how they want to do better with their own daughters.

Right now, Joanna Sawatsky, my co-author for The Great Sex Rescue, is visiting for 3 weeks, and she and Rebecca are writing the first draft of our mother-daughter book that’s coming out next year. So we’re thinking a lot about what to teach teenagers instead.

Last week, I asked on Facebook, “what would you tell 16-year-old you about sex & relationships if you could go back in time?”

I had over 200 comments on that post, but I’m going to distill them down to these 18 important themes:

1. If you date someone, you don’t have to think you’re going to marry them.

A number of people chimed in on this one!

“You don’t have to basically commit to being married before you get to actually know someone that in fact, that is extremely dangerous and often how women end up in abusive marriages.”

“A coffee date isn’t a commitment.”

“It’s okay to love another person even if it doesn’t work out. I was so scared of “giving my heart away” to the wrong man. When I finally did decide I found “the one” and gave him everything I had I felt trapped and did not leave when I should have. I did all the “right” things but it set me up for failure as I had little experience with what a real relationship should look like and I ignored all the red flags because as soon as I kissed him I thought that was it, I HAD to marry him.”

“It’s ok to date and not have it work out. You don’t need to marry the first guy that comes along. You will not ‘miss out’ on getting married.”

“You don’t have to be loyal to the person you are going on dates with, they don’t own you, you can enjoy dating multiple people and getting to know more than one person and not waste all your time on that one expecting it to work to marriage.”

2. God expects BOTH of you to have self-control, not just you–and consent is a thing!

“God expects both men and women to have self-control, that it is not solely “up to the woman” to decide how far the physical relationship goes.”

“Setting boundaries together is a wonderful way to talk about things and see what kind of a guy you’re dating. Is he going to honor me and himself now? If he isn’t, will he honor me and himself later?”

“If someone doesn’t respect your space and your autonomy, they aren’t worth another thought.”

“If I had to be the gatekeeper due to his lack of self-control before we married, it would not magically turn that lack of self-control into something positive in marriage.”

“No is a full statement- it doesn’t need a long apologetic explanation- no means no.”

3. You are not “damaged goods” if you mess up.

“You’re not a consumable, you don’t lose value over time or because of things that were done to you, or for your mistakes.”

“Getting married just to stay out of hell is extremely wrong & bad. Most people are not as adult as they think in their late teens and 20s, and sins are forgivable if you do make a mistake.”

“Purity is not based on your virginity.”

“If I had sex with someone that doesn’t mean I have a permanent emotional attachment to them.”

“You are still worthy, valuable, not damaged goods, if you have sex before marriage- you are not a wilted rose or a second hand ‘white elephant gift that no one wants to claim’ simply because you had sex.”

“Kissing isn’t a cardinal sin.”

4. Wait for sex for marriage–not because it’s a huge sin but because that’s for the best.

A lot of people emphasized that the messaging around waiting for marriage for sex needed to revolve less around the fact that it’s a sin and more around WHY God wants us to wait. 

“Sex is for marriage, because it’s actually designed – and yes there is science for this – to bond you to your partner. We wait not because it’s bad, or because we want to stay “pure,” but because it’s POWERFUL and GOOD and we respect that power and goodness by employing it as it is designed – within marriage.”

“Sex is a wonderful thing for you and your future spouse to share only with each other. It’s special and sacred. It will get better over time because you’ll know each other better and deeper… And you’ll get better at the act itself!”

5. Relationships don’t define your worth.

“Someone finding you attractive or not does not define your worth. Marriage doesn’t make you worthy, Jesus makes you worthy.”

“It’s important to be whole as a person before looking for a mate because your happiness and purpose should never be tied to another person- even your mate. Don’t be afraid of it falling apart. Don’t settle for a bad relationship just to have a relationship.”

6. True love looks like Jesus.

“If someone is telling me that something is loving, natural, or true, but it doesn’t look like Jesus, that is not love.”

“Do not sell yourself short by ignoring all red flags. No!! Just being a Christian does not mean he will change his toxic ways no matter how much you think Christians will change when they know they’ve hurt you. He will not see you more after hours of praying. Run. Your health depends on it.”

7. The people who truly love you can likely see clearly as to whether a relationship is healthy or not.

“I also wish I would have known the difference between my parents’ permission and blessing in my first marriage. It may have saved me from marrying an unfaithful man, because they were not blinded by hormones and could have seen the flags.”

“Trust an older wiser person who loves you and sees the red flags and warns you and listen.”

8. You can decide who you invite into your life.

“It is okay to say no and not worry about disappointing people that do not care about you! Take care of yourself and more so, who you choose to invite into your life.”

“Waiting and thinking the first person who shows interest in you is who you should marry is stupid.”

“just because you have sex with someone doesn’t mean you’re “stuck” marrying them. Same for getting pregnant.”

9. Good men ARE out there–so don’t believe that all men are terrible so you can’t expect anything better.

“There are men out there who are loving and caring, and that you are lovable.”

“There are many good men who will see you as a whole person and not just as someone to have sex with.”

10. You deserve real information about sex.

A lot of people chimed in on this one, even saying they would tell their teenage self not to listen to the conservative church they’re in, but to seek out real medical information about how their body works, and how sex works, and what sex even is. Here are just a few:

“All about how sex works, how our bodies are made and what consent is. Not the basic this is a penis, this is a vagina but like how it works, why it works, what is important in a relationship. Not the full blown purity culture, sex is bad, avoid it at all costs, then get married and go wild.”

“More about my own body and how it works. Literally an adult and married and still learning facts about the female body.”

“I’d want to know about the physiology of arousal.”

11. Girls can have sex drives, too.

“Wanting sex doesn’t make you a weirdo. Being a sexual woman doesn’t mean you’re a freak. Your husband isn’t going to automatically want it all the time.”

“A healthy understanding that sexuality shouldn’t be an obsessive focus but also not ignored. It is just part of being human. And that it can be understood and talked about in logical medical/scientific/psychological ways that don’t require ridiculous gender stereotypes but can acknowledge sex/gender group differences.”

12. Waiting for marriage does not guarantee you will have a great sex life.

“A great sex life does not ‘Just Happen,” it’s an art, a science and a learned skill!”

“Though staying away from sex before marriage is a good thing, it will not guarantee you a great sex life and an amazing marriage free from struggle.”

13. Don’t trust adults just because they’re adults.

A LOT of people shared heartbreaking stories about this one–and issued lots of warnings!

“Honey you were right “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” is terrible. Your youth pastor naively teaching from it isn’t evil just young herself.”

“Some adults do not have your best interest in mind.”

“People are fallible sinners…..even “church” people. So, don’t let their behavior get between you and God. They’re not a reflection of His love.”

“Don’t trust that Assistant Youth Pastor when he offers to give you a ride home.”

“An older man trying to date you as a teenager is a huge red flag, not a compliment.”

14. You don’t need to make yourself small.

“Don’t sacrifice or downplay your success or achievements in order to make him feel stronger or not hurt his feelings. If a guy is hurt or upset when you win or succeed at something, he’s not someone you should be with.”

“It’s okay to take the lead.”

“Your voice is just as important as the voice of a man’s.”

15. Asking questions and having doubts is not a bad thing.

“It’s okay to be curious and ask questions, and if people refuse to give you answers that makes them toxic, not you.”

“Stop destroying your self-confidence thinking that you are being humble. It’s condemnation, not conviction that is fueling that.”

“Don’t believe everything you are taught if it is not backed up by appropriate, contextual scripture. This is why it is important to learn the Bible and the history surrounding when it was written, then compiled as “The Bible.”

16. Your body is not dangerous.

“How you were created by God is beautiful. The end. Looking like a woman is not a sin.”

“I had a youth pastor tell 12-17 year old girls that our leggings and bikinis caused lust and encouraged cheating on their wives. That’s pedophilia and completely vile. I thought it was my fault old men sinned against their wives and weren’t faithful.”

“You having breasts doesn’t cause other people to sin/stumble. Being noticed doesn’t mean you’re dressed inappropriately.”

17. Christians aren’t automatically emotionally and relationally healthier than non-believers.

“It is not a requirement to be a Christian to be a good spouse, parent, leader, woman/man, have a good marriage, good sex etc etc These things are commonly HUMAN. PS you will meet many healthy people who are other faiths or agnostic/atheists that are healthier as people and relationships than Evangelicals you know just to prove this point.”

“I was told that non Christians are incapable of real love, because God is love and if someone isn’t saved they don’t understand love at all. Then I realized how many “Christians” didn’t apparently understand it very well either.”

18. Don’t worry so much about what you look like!

“Stop plucking your eyebrows so much. Oh and eat a cookie. You aren’t fat.”

Those were awesome! And honestly, I think if I had asked five years ago (and I likely did), most of the answers would have been, “don’t date too young!”, or “make sure you wait until marriage.” But people are really saying very different things now.

Or rather, we’re emphasizing different things.

Yes, sex is meant for marriage, but we need a LOT of nuance in this conversation. What is consent? Whose responsibility is it to make sure you don’t go too far? What about sexual assault? 

And we’re recognizing that we need to talk a lot more about what constitutes a healthy relationship, rather than just telling kids to wait for marriage. I think that’s a positive change.

And I think I’ll end off with these three comments that all said great things!

In The Whole Story, our puberty course for moms/daughters or dads/sons, we talk a lot about healthy relationships.

We talk about boundaries, and dating, and sex, and so much more. Especially in the older versions of the courses, we can help you have those conversations with your kids. We start the conversations–you can finish them. If you want to make sure that you’re having these healthy conversations with your kids, check it out.

You're telling me WHAT goes WHERE?!

Talking about sex with your kids doesn't always go smoothly. 

That's why we created The Whole Story, our online course that walks parents through the tough conversations and does the hard parts for you!

Learn More!

Did we miss something? What would be your #19? Or is there something you’d take out? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Do You Feel Like All Men Should Find You Attractive?

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