Sheila Wray Gregoire's Blog, page 34

Do Christians Still Think Sex is Bad? The Contagion Theory of Sexuality

Sheila here for a moment.

The whole time I was writing The Great Sex Rescue, and combing through the materials for terrible quotes, and becoming quite upset about how awful some of them were, Keith took it all in stride. He kept saying, “yes, Sheila, but the evangelical world is still ashamed of sex.”

And I’d fight him on it, and tell him he was wrong. We think sex is a good thing! Look how many books we have of it!

But the more he talked to me about his contagion model of sexuality, and how he thinks this is how evangelicals think of sex, the more I thought he was on to something. I asked him to write it up today for you, so here’s Keith:

 

 

“Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease.” Matthew 9:35

My view of what the Bible means by “the gospel” started to change about 15 years ago when I read this verse and found myself thinking, “How could Jesus preach the gospel before his death and resurrection?”

You may find that silly, but I was honestly puzzled. Back then I saw the gospel purely in terms of the four spiritual laws:

God loves us,our sin separates us from God,Christ’s death paid for our sin,if we accept Christ our sins are forgiven.

That was the gospel as far as I was concerned.  Now I am not saying any of that is wrong; I still believe all those things are true. Nor am I saying it is wrong to see these truths as essential to the Christian life or even to emphasize them above other things. Paul himself reports when he was with the Corinthians that “I resolved to know nothing when I was among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” (1 Cor 2:2). But I have learned that there is a big difference between saying something is a very important or even an essential part of the gospel and saying something is the gospel in its entirety.

At that point in my life, though, I saw the gospel in very simplistic terms, which basically boiled down to saying the “Sinner’s Prayer” and getting a free ticket to heaven.

I saw anything and everything else as superfluous and distracting from the “true message”. But passages like the one above hounded me because they didn’t make sense in light of that interpretation of what the gospel was. I also had a very hard time with these passages about the kingdom of God.

If I am being honest, I think I basically saw the kingdom of God as the name of the club you joined once you got your free ticket into heaven.  I knew it must be more than that, but I had no idea what. Nonetheless, I went around trying to find opportunities to “witness” about Jesus. I would tell anyone I could about the gospel as I understood it, doing my best to get them a free ticket to heaven as well.  In my zeal to do a better job, I decided to study how Jesus interacted with others as I assumed that of all people, he would be the best to help me with my “witnessing”.  That’s when I ran into trouble with the Bible verse that started this post. But even worse, as I read more and more of what Jesus actually said, I found very little of it seemed to fit with a “Four Spiritual Laws” mindset. And it concerned me deeply.

I struggled making sense of this for quite some time.  Eventually, as I developed a richer understanding of the gospel, it has begun to make sense. The key to me was taking Jesus seriously about what he said. Jesus didn’t preach the four spiritual laws at people; he met them where they were and said the healing words that they needed to be truly reconciled to the Father. He was setting up a new kingdom, one that is “not of this world”, but still very real and very powerful.

I realized that the gospel really is good news!

It is the good news that the kingdom of God has arrived. God is reconciling creation to Himself.

In the evangelical church, we have adopted a mindset that God’s kingdom is far off and yet to come. Our goal is to endure this present wicked world until we eventually get away from it and get to heaven.

But Jesus said the kingdom was “among you”, it is “in your midst” and that it has “come upon you”. There is a present reality to the kingdom that we must not neglect. And of course, that makes sense. If the king has come, then the kingdom is here! Now, there certainly is a “not yet” element to the kingdom of God, but there is also a very real “here and now” element, too! Reading some of N.T. Wright’s work and listening to the “Ask N.T. Wright Anything” podcast have really helped me understand this idea about the “already but not yet”—and the whole concept of the kingdom of God in general. God is renewing and redeeming the creation. It will culminate at the end of the age, but the work is already begun. That is the gospel (of which our own salvation is a part).

But what does all this gospel and kingdom stuff have to do with sex?

Well, this expanded view of the gospel deals with more than just payment for sin. It affirms that we live in a good, but fallen, world. The wonderful good news of the gospel isn’t just that someday we will go to heaven, but that even now “Jesus is Lord” and He is redeeming and renewing the creation–and we get to be a part of that! It follows, then, if we interpret human sexuality in that light, our view of sex should be clear:

Human sexuality is goodLike everything else in creation, it has been marred by the fall.As members of Jesus’ kingdom, we should seek to redeem it and bring it back to the state of health which God intended (as best we can until God ultimately restores all things)

But the view of sexuality I see in evangelical Christianity does not look like this. Rather, it seems to see sexuality as an enemy that needs to be defeated. Why else would purity culture go so viral and do so much damage before anyone ever spoke up about it? Why else would books like the best-selling “Every Man’s Battle” explain that “we find another reason for the prevalence of sexual sin among men. We got there naturally—simply by being male”?

The Evangelical church may give verbal assent to the idea of sex being a good thing, but it rings hollow based on how they actually talk about sex and sexuality.

Rather than having a redemptive view of sexuality, the evangelical world appears they have adopted what I call a “Contagion Response” model of sexuality.

Basically, it goes like this:

Sexuality is bad.Unfortunately, God has made men so that they really want sex, so:We will at least limit this whole sexuality thing to marriage andTo make sure it stays contained there we will tell women to have as much sex as their husband asks for so he won’t be tempted to express his sexuality anywhere else.

I am humorously overstating the point here, but I expect you see elements of truth in what I am saying.

Does the evangelical church believe sex is fundamentally bad? Before you answer, think about how evangelicals actually talk about sex. Especially the fact that until recently we really didn’t.

I remember once telling a matronly Christian woman that Sheila was a Christian author. She asked what Sheila wrote about and when I answered her, she responded, “Oh, why would she ever write about that?” Then I think about all the Christian radio interviews and TV shows where Sheila had to use code words. “Remember to say ‘intimacy’ instead of ‘sex’, okay?” Yes, there is a point to being modest in our speech and avoiding explicit language. But there is a difference about talking about something politely and being embarrassed to talk about it at all. It is clear to me that the evangelical church doesn’t demur to talk about sex because we are trying to be polite; it is because for most evangelicals, sex is something associated with fear and shame.

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! But over the last decade or two, the church has experienced a bit of a “sexual reawakening” where a whole host of people have come forward to talk about sex in the Christian context.

Thankfully, some are healthy, like Sheila (or the Penners, authors of The Gift of Sex). But unfortunately, large numbers of them are brazen and disgusting, like Mark Driscoll. And the thing I find remarkable among the unhealthy teachers is how much sex is portrayed as exclusively for men. The assumption is that God made women virtuous models of sexual restraint while men are full of testosterone and desire.  We see this all over the place—from the infamous Missouri preacher ranting how “God made men to look” to Paige Patterson’s disgusting comments about gawking being Biblical. The message is clear, a real man has a healthy God-ordained sex drive. But while we relish our male libido, we are also conflicted about it. As Every Heart Restored says “Men don’t naturally have that Christian view of sex”. It would appear that we men–while we know we shouldn’t–want it anyway.

Church, it is long past time to realize that we have a messed up view of sexuality.

How did we ever get to the point where men are told that your male sexuality at its core is not Christian and that your “male hardwiring” predisposes you to sin? Or that women’s sexuality is exclusively about how they affect men? How did we get to the point where we weaponize 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 against women and warn wives that unless they put out, husbands will likely turn to porn or have an affair? Even if we thought these things were true, how could we ever have seen them as part of God’s perfect plan?

Thankfully, there is another way. God did create sexuality and it is good. Yes, we need to listen to God about how to make sex all it is supposed to be. Yes, we will be happiest in our sexuality if we follow His plan. But it is clear that not everybody out there who is claiming to speak for God really is.  You need to be discerning about what you take in.

If you read or hear things from so called Christian resources and they steal, kill and destroy your sex life, think about where they are actually coming from.

Jesus came not to steal, kill and destroy, but that we may have life and life abundantly. If something is not from Jesus, you should reject it.

It is time for a Christianity that deals with more than sin management till we get to heaven. That is milk and by now we should be on to solid food.  It is time for wholeness. It is time to reject destructive, toxic teachings and instead to honestly seek to be God’s co-laborers in building a Church where people become increasingly healthy in every aspects of our lives – including sexuality.

What do you think? Do we have a “contagion” model of sexuality, where sex is bad, so let’s keep it to marriage and let’s make women make sure it doesn’t spill over anywhere else? How do we counter this? Let’s talk in the comments!

Keith Gregoire

Blog and Podcast Contributor, Co-Author with Sheila of two upcoming marriage books

Keith is the rock that supports Sheila, who runs this blog! Sheila and Keith married when Keith was attending Queen's University medical school in Kingston, Ontario. He later completed his residency in pediatrics at the Hospital for Sick Children, and has since directed the pediatric undergraduate program at Queen's University, and been Chief of Pediatrics at a community hospital in Belleville, Ontario. He and Sheila speak at marriage conferences around the world, and together they've also done medical missions in Kenya. Next up: They're authoring The Guy's Guide to Great Sex together! Plus, of course, he's an avid birdwatcher. Related Posts 10 Things To Know about Medieval Sex

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The Misuse of Matthew 18 When It Comes to Calling out False Teaching

Our book The Great Sex Rescue shows what teachings prevalent in the evangelical church have harmed women’s marital and sexual satisfaction–and harmed men, too!

And I know that many of you have seen me and my team call out specific authors for harmful teachings we found in their books, and it’s uncomfortable. Maybe these authors wrote books that really helped you, maybe these authors were a part of a turning point in your life, or maybe you know them personally and you feel uncomfortable seeing a friend held accountable for what they have taught. Seeing these books called out may make you feel angry, attacked, or even anxious.

I get it. I really, really do. But I hope you can take a few minutes and read through this post to get a better understanding of why it’s so important that we talk about this stuff–even if it feels uncomfortable or unfair.

As I’m sure pretty much all of my regular readers know, last year we surveyed over 20,000 women, asking about their marital & sexual satisfaction, and then asking whether they had ben taught, and whether they believe or had believed, many different evangelical teachings about sex and marriage. By doing comparisons, we were able to measure which beliefs were the most toxic. (You can see our full methods here).

Once we did that, we took a look at our evangelical marriage & sex bestsellers to identify which ones contained these harmful teachings. And in our book, we do quote liberally from these bestsellers and show where a lot of this harm started–or at least which resources fanned the flames.

In doing so, we’ve often been accused of doing things the wrong way, and attacking these authors in an unChristian way.

Invariably, whenever I talk about this on social media or on this blog, someone will say, “but did you go to the authors first?” They say that we’re not supposed to be critiquing these authors in public, because it can cause division. Instead, we should have approached the authors individually and privately, abiding by Matthew 18:15-17.

I try to respond to those comments as they come in, but what I’d like to do today is write my definitive response, so that instead of having to write this out each and every time, I can point back here.

First, let’s look first at those verses:

“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

Matthew 18:15-17 is about a personal dispute between two parties who know each other.

 Jesus is talking about offences between two people where personal sin is involved.

Even if we tried to apply Matthew 18, I am not the injured party.

In the case of harmful marriage or sex teaching, I am not the person who has been hurt. I have no personal grievance with any of these authors; indeed, with the exception of one, I have had no personal contact. They have not personally hurt me.

The people who have been hurt (and it is plural, not singular) in this case is not me; it is the people who heard their teaching and tried to live it out, and were harmed in the process.

Many of these authors have already had people they injured come to them personally

Emerson Eggerichs in Love & Respect, Steve Arterburn (and the other authors) in Every Man’s Battle, and Shaunti Feldhahn in Through a Man’s Eyes all have admitted in their very books that they have had women and readers come to them, after hearing their messages, and saying that this message made their marriage worse. In Eggerichs’ case, a woman said it caused her husband to treat her much worse and demand respect for bad behaviour. In Arterburn’s case, they recount several women saying they would never have married if they had known that this was how men are. In Feldhahn’s case, she says “more than a few devastated husbands have told us that their wives stopped being intimate with them altogether once they learned the truth about how men are wired.”

We also had women in interviews telling us that they emailed various authors begging them to clarify their teachings (especially about the fact that all men lust) or telling Eggerichs that his advice made the abuse in their marriage worse. In no case did these authors apologize or change their teaching.

Thus, even if Matthew 18 applies here (which I don’t believe it does), people have already come to these authors personally, and often in groups.

That means that even if we are in Matthew 18, we have already moved on to verse 17.

In verse 17, Jesus says that if the person ignores you, and ignores 2-3 others, you bring the issue before the church. Thus, even if Matthew 18 applied, we would be correctly acting in verse 17–bringing in the whole church to deal with it.

There are New Testament passages that better apply to issues of public teaching

The Great Sex Rescue is not addressing personal offences. This is an issue of false teaching which has been done in public.

And the New Testament model is that when the teaching is done in public, it is corrected in public.

The harm has been done to the church as a whole, and thus it must be corrected as loudly as possible so that those who may have heard the false teaching will also hear it corrected.

Paul confronted Peter in public when he was hurting the gospel

 

When Cephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?”

Galatians 2:11-14

Peter was setting an example in public, and Paul saw this and noticed that many were being led astray–including Barnabas.

Did he go to Peter quietly, in person? No. He “opposed him to his face” (he was quite adamant and belligerent in public) and went up to Peter “in front of them all.” 

Matthew 18:15-17 is only one New Testament model of how to handle disputes, and it applies to interpersonal disputes, not false teaching. When it comes to false teaching, Galatians 2:11-14 is a more appropriate model.

When harm is done in public, it must be corrected in public.

After all, what would happen if we went to these authors in private, and they admitted that some of what they said was harmful? If that conversation took place in private, the people who had been harmed would not hear about it. It must be in public so those who have been harmed are also able to hear the correct message.

But don’t we still have an obligation to be nice?

We have an obligation to speak the truth in love. I like how one of my commenters answered this question:

Christians confuse the word “nice” with “love”. We are not called to be “nice”. Nice implies that we bend over backwards to avoid any and all conflict or offense. As christians, our job is not to avoid offense. Jesus himself offend people! It is his name, his presence, that causes people to hate believers. HE is what they hate! Jesus offends! We are not called to be nice. Speaking truth, in love, means we are so committed to the truth, that out of love for others we share it (because if we never shared the truth we know, people are destined to hell!) And out of love for God we preach it, proclaim it. If we are going to be effective, believable, must we not also be passionate? What you are expecting out of a faithful believer here is to require unfaithfulness with the truth. Stop expecting Christians to be “nice” and not offend. Our mission is to offend people with the truth of Christ. And if speaking truth about abuse and false teaching offends you, you may need to take a moment and ask yourself, why?

But you’re hurting the authors!

Again, we must remember that the authors are not the victims here. Though they may feel beaten up on, and they may feel attacked, the real victims are the people who have been harmed. The Bible tells us that teachers will be judged more strictly. And Jesus’ heart is always for the sheep. When we put ourselves in a leadership position, then we open ourselves up to scrutiny and accountability. It’s easy to feel sympathy for an author you know and love, rather than faceless readers who say they are hurt. But Jesus’ concern is for the sheep, and He judges how well a shepherd does by how well they care for the sheep.

But all books do some harm, don’t they?

Actually, this is not empirically true, and it’s sad that we would expect so little from books. On our survey, we had an open-ended question where we asked people if there were any resources, ministries, or organizations that they felt had helped their marriages, and any that they felt had harmed. We did not name any throughout our survey, and we had no drop down menu.

Our survey found that many books did NOT harm. Boundaries in Marriage, for instance, scored very well on our rubric of healthy sexuality (42/48), and it was never mentioned once in the survey as a book that harmed. The Gift of Sex scored amazingly well on our rubric (47/48), and it also was never mentioned once as a book that harmed. Both books present emotionally healthy information.

On the other hand, there were many books that some people said harmed, but some people said helped. Not surprisingly, these books tended to be the ones that scored very poorly on our rubric. Love & Respect, for instance, scored 0/48 on our rubric, and was also the most commonly named harmful book. For every 2 people who said it helped them, 3 said it harmed them.

Jesus leaves the 99 to go after the 1. If a book harms, that matters to Jesus.

But these authors did so much good–you can’t discount a whole ministry just because some people were hurt!

We talked about this at length in our Thalidomide podcast, but let me summarize.

The vast majority of marriage books teach something quite basic: work on communication; remember that you both may see the world differently; try to think of the other person first and try to let things go and be as loving and giving as possible. In general, that’s pretty good advice.

Then what authors do is add their own unique take on marriage on top of this general, generic, good advice.

Now, ask a fundamental question: what makes someone read a marriage book, attend a marriage event, or go to a marriage book study? Likely they want to make their marriage better, right? They’re prepared to dedicate time and brain power to think about how to make marriage better, so they are exactly in the right frame of mind to help change their marriage for the better. So you have someone who already wants to work on their marriage. If that person reads a book–almost any book on making marriage better–chances are their marriage will get better, because they already want to work on their marriage, and the generic advice is good.

Some marriage books, though, contain things other than just “think of the other person first.” Some marriage books also contain teachings that we know can cause harm because they work directly against what we know is emotionally healthy. For instance, if a marriage book does any of the following, we know it’s going to cause harm to some:

Presents gender stereotypes as if they are written in stone, and asks people to behave in very gendered waysTreats one person’s opinions or feelings as more valid than the other person’sTells one person that the things they may consider to be fundamental needs are not as important as the other person’s needs; or tells someone to suppress their needs in order to keep someone else from doing something badTells one person that they should not speak up about what they are really thinking or feeling, or tells that person that they should not confront bad behaviourTells people that setting boundaries is unChristian, or not permitted because of their genderGives people an easy way to blame a spouse for their own continued bad behaviour (ie. she’s not respecting me enough; she’s not having sex enough so I’m watching porn again).

Unfortunately, many of the evangelical books that we measured contained teachings like these that do cause harm. They don’t cause harm to everyone who reads them, because most people are in healthy relationships and they wouldn’t dream of hurting their partner. But not everyone is in a healthy relationship.

If people are helped by your book because of the generic advice that you spread (consider the other, etc.), but harmed because of the specific advice that you gave that differentiated your books from others, then your book is not a helpful one.

People could have read any other book and still gotten the generic advice that was helpful. If the unique information that distinguishes your book from the rest does harm and is not emotionally healthy, then your book is not emotionally healthy, even if many people say it helped them. 

For example, anybody who read Every Man’s Battle was already prepared to do battle with lust. If their lust battle improved after reading the book, is it because the book in particular helped them, or is it because the fact that they dedicated time to thinking about fighting lust and taking it seriously was what it took to put them on a new trajectory?

But you’re just trying to get famous by hurting others!

I’ve spoken about my attitude towards cancel culture here. But I’ve been accused of stirring up strife and trying to get women to see themselves as victims in order to sell books for myself and claim everyone else’s platform. 

You can think that if you want–but I’ll let this commenter come to my defence:

This isn’t “competition” like two equal options. This is a matter of discernment – pointing out an erroneous teaching that causes harm to people. Present tense. “having a victim mentality” applies to a single individual dealing with past abuse. The problem is that these harmful teachings are CURRENTLY STILL CAUSING PRESENT HARM. Right now. Sheila’s posts aren’t imposing a victim mentality. They are waving a caution flag that says – warning…the road to clear thinking and good marriage is out up ahead. Do not go this way or you may be hurt. That’s not “slamming the competition”. That’s attempting to prevent future victims and empowering people to understand the full ramifications of these truly horrible and unScriptural teachings. Angela E.

Church: Can we please let the sheep matter more than the reputation of authors?

Can we put the emphasis back where it belongs?

I am simply asking to have a debate. I am asking people to listen to 20,000 women, and to re-evaluate and to talk about the issues. I’m more than willing to admit when I am wrong, too.

This should not be about me, and it should not be about these authors. It should be about the readers, and it should be about Jesus. And we will know that our emphasis is in the right place when we are more concerned with the effects on the people who read our books than we are with the platforms and paychecks of the authors who wrote them.

Other Posts that Look at this from Different Perspectives:Why it’s not okay for Christian marriage books to be a little bit harmfulOn False Teachers, Calling People to Account, and CompassionWhy 20,000 Women MatterAn Open Letter to Evangelical InfluencersWhy I’m Not Trying to Cancel Anybody (But I am trying to cancel harmful teaching)The Thalidomide Test Podcast EpisodeMy statement in response to Shaunti Feldhahn (her statement is linked within mine so you can see them both)My Open Letter to Focus on the Family about Love & Respect The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now!

What do you think? Have you heard these arguments about how we should have gone to the authors first? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Why I’m Not Trying to Cancel Other Marriage Authors

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PODCAST: A Church Called TOV, and Matthew 18!

Can we have a church with a goodness culture?

This week on the podcast Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer, father-daughter duo co-authors of A Church Called Tov, joined Rebecca and me to talk about what it means to create a healthy church rather than a toxic church.

Given all the work I’ve been doing with The Great Sex Rescue trying to address toxic teachings, I was so excited to have them on the podcast!

Listen to the Podcast Here

Browse all the Different Podcasts

See the Last “Start Your Engines” (Men’s) Podcast

Or, as always, you can watch on YouTube:

 

Timeline of the Podcast

0:36 Scot & Laura join us!
2:05 Experiencing the Willow Creek/Bill Hybels scandal
5:30 Signs of Toxic Church Cultures
13:30 The concerning misuse of Matthew 18 in churches
28:15 How to foster a ‘goodness’ church culture instead
36:05 How it was to work together as father/daughter!
40:00 RQs w/ Keith!
49:30 Encouragement from a new listener!

Main Segment: What Makes a Church “Tov”?

We looked at 7 marks of toxic churches; why church leaders often preserve reputations rather than dealing with the issues; what we should be doing, and more!

Plus Scot McKnight helped us immensely by talking about what Matthew 18 really means! I often get accused of critiquing authors in the “wrong” way because I should have gone to the authors in private first. Here Scot McKnight shows how that perspective doesn’t apply at all, and is an incorrect reading of the verse. I really appreciate that!

Reader Questions: How do we confront our pastors when we think books he recommends are toxic?

Keith and I then tackled two reader questions, both along the lines of this one:

I’m a youth pastor. I’ve sped through just about every podcast since my wife introduced me to it. We are working together to introduce healthier resources, more productive conversation, and better information to our teens and youth leaders. We have had very deep and in depth conversations about redefining sex, viewing people as people made in God’s image and not objects, etc…with youth leaders. And then our men’s ministry has an event and the speaker “strongly recommends” every man’s battle, talk about men not being able to control themselves and men being more visual than a woman will ever understand. And I am just sick. I need help knowing as a youth pastor (have a voice and part in church direction, but low man on the totem pole for the most part) how to encourage and promote change and growth. I’m frustrated and frankly, disgusted. 

Another woman wrote in with a similar question about Love & Respect. She wanted to confront her pastor, but her husband was worried that the pastor wouldn’t take it well.

Keith had some good words of advice, but I’d also point you to our rubric and scorecard that are now available online. I think when people see in black and white how these books scored on a 12-point rubric of healthy sexuality (and it’s not difficult to score well; Gift of Sex scored 47/48), then it can be more obvious what’s the problem with it. Plus the problematic quotations that made us score the books that way are there in black & white, too!

Download the rubric and synopsis of our results to share with your pastor, plus get access to our scorecard, here. 

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! Things Mentioned in This Podcast:A Church Called TovOur rubric and scorecardThe Great Sex RescueOur Patreon–so you can support us!

 

What do you think? Have you found a Tov church? Let’s talk about it!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Our Healthy Sexuality Rubric and Scorecard of Evangelical Books is Live!

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A Romp through 10 Weird Things Victorians Believed about Sex

We are continuing our romp through the ages with sex in Victorian times!

Throughout the month of April I’ve wanted to look at how sex was seen at different periods in history, so that we could figure out how we got where we are now–and so that we could see that our views of sex can be heavily influenced by our culture. 

We started with Roman times last week, and then yesterday we looked at the medieval period and sex. Today we’ve moving on to the famous Victorians!

I do want to say that “Victorian” is perhaps an unfair word. From what I know about Queen Victoria, she certainly really loved her Albert, and they had a ton of kids. So I don’t think she was nearly as uptight as she seems to be, given that we named an uptight era after her. I think she just simply happened to live an awfully long time, so she was in the unfortunate position that all cultural change, good or bad, was named after her. 

I asked Connor to take a look at the history books and come up with ten interesting tidbits about the Victorians, and here you go!

(Again, this is totally not exhaustive, and there’s so much more we could say about different church movements and how that affected their own subculture’s view of sex. But we’ll keep that as general as possible!)

1. There were some funny and strange superstitions about sex and pregnancy

For example, if you had sex on stairs, you baby would be born with a crooked back. Or if you were not really present or invested in the sexual encounter that led to conception, your child would be ugly and spiritless. Oh, and not to mention, the child’s gender would match whoever had the better orgasm during sex.

2. Legitimate rape couldn’t get you pregnant

This outlandish belief was more toxic. The medical theory was that the cervix was way to tight for anything to get through, unless it was actually desiring and thus used uterine suction to gather up the semen. This led to many a female victim of sexual assault being accused of impropriety or adultery, or just being ignored. Because if they got pregnant, they must have been a willing participant.

“The mouth of the uterus, be it known, is very narrow, so narrow in fact, that the fecundating principle would not enter it, but that it craves it, and inhales it by real suction — a proof, by the way, that a rape can never be productive of real offspring” (Eugene Becklard. Becklard’s Physiology. 1845).

3. Feeling horny? Try being corny

It was believed that another effective way to combat sexual desire was to stick to bland foods, avoiding anything that excited the senses or that might warm one’s nethers with tantalizing spices. John Harvey Kellogg, was partially inspired by this theory to advocate for a blander American diet, including his famous breakfast cereal, Cornflakes.

4. Masturbation was mostly just a concern for the guys.

In this era, many teachers, scholars, and writers seriously downplayed the role of female sexuality, creating a culture in which women were not assumed to really have a sex drive. One of the most prominent authors of the time on the topic of sexual education claimed that females had a “low, almost nonexistent sex drive, so only truly deranged females would succumb to the temptations of masturbation” (Henry Hanchett. Sexual Health: A Plain and Practical Guide for the People on All Matters Concerning the Organs of Reproduction in Both Sexes and All Ages. 1889).

5. Women became the gatekeepers of sex

We can really see in the Victorian era, this idea that men were going to want sex all the time. But lest society and marriage fall to sexual depravity, women needed to be the gatekeepers, since they themselves were practically asexual (It was commonly believed that a woman’s only desire from sex came from the desire to be a mother). If women were flirtatious, they might send men into the arms of prostitutes for relief, contributing to the spread of disease.

Even within marriage, women were often given advice such as Ruth Smythers’: “GIVE LITTLE, GIVE SELDOM, AND ABOVE ALL, GIVE GRUDGINGLY. Otherwise what could have been a proper marriage could become an orgy of sexual lust.”

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! 6. Women trained in avoiding sex with their husbands, or to at the very least make it as sad and unfulfilling as possible

Women were advised to escape sexual advances from their husbands by faking illness and headaches, and to always do it in the dark, so the sight of the wife’s body did nothing for him, and he may injure himself in his blind fumbling, thereby removing sex from the table.

My favorite, though, was the advice to verbally cut a husband down with nagging and criticism about an hour before the time in the evening when he would typically make his advances so he is too broken in spirit to pursue sex. Or the advice to begin nagging him with a list of his failures from that day and a long list of trivial tasks for the next day so that the husband never gets to enjoy that moment of post-sex bliss.

 

7. Women needed to know their place

At the same time as receiving the advice from the previous point, wives were also taught they shouldn’t nag too much, or criticize their husbands even when there was cause, because their husband’s authority over them “is the consequence of the sin of your own [female] sex” (William Jay).

A woman was expected to downplay any competencies she had outside of the home, because to work would shame the husband, implying he could not care for his family. A woman was to be clean and tidy, but not so much as to make others comfortable. A woman was to be fashionable, but not so much as to strain her husbands finances, and she was to be pretty, but not to use makeup or to be too pretty, lest she shame her husband by looking easy. If your husband cheated, it was improper to let anyone know. A wife was expected not to address it because “that’s just how men are.”

“It’s in a man’s nature to go searching for a new version of the girl you used to be before you bore him seven children and made the comforts of his home the envy of the neighborhood” (Therese Oneill. Unmentionable: The Victorian Lady’s Guide to Sex, Marriage, and Manners. 2016)

8. Women’s sex education was intentionally sparse

People believed that women should at least have a rudimentary understanding of the basic mechanics of sex, and the general names of their own reproductive organs. But their education should not be specific enough that women would develop curiosity and investigate themselves, resulting in “irritation.”

“She should know the scientific names of her organs, not because there are many vulgar names as in the case of boys, but because dignified names help attitude. Ovaries, uterus (womb), vagina, Fallopian tubes, and vulva will be sufficient. Detailed description of the external organs (vulva) might arouse curiosity that leads to exploration and irritation.” (Maurice Bigelow. Sex-education: A Series of Lectures Concerning Knowledge of Sex in Its Relation to Human Life. 1916).

 

9. A proper woman was supposed to be ashamed of her body

Ignorance and shame were desirable traits in unmarried women. They weren’t supposed to understand what they were getting into, and were supposed to be reluctant and uncomfortable with the whole affair when the knowledge was sprung on them on or slightly before the wedding night. If they didn’t exhibit this shame, it was an indictment of their character.

“There is, indeed, another kind of shame. It is that delicate shyness which the virgin feels when she is to step beyond the boundary of virginity, as well as that feminine reserve which strives to hide or to guard her charms. This “shame” is…a natural consequence of an emotional affection upon entering a new life…it has nothing to do with the consciousness or the fear of seeing something improper disclosed, is an ornament to every woman, and its absence is a proof of dullness and coarseness” (Karl Heinzen. The Rights of Women and Their Sexual Relations. 1981).

Some even taught that this ignorance and modesty was a more important test of a woman’s virginity than the presence of a hymen.

10. If a woman expected to have autonomy over her body after marriage, she needed to speak up beforehand

As the idea of women’s bodily autonomy began to gain traction, men were quick to point out that women who took this controversial stance should be upfront with prospective husbands. Women being in charge of their own bodies was not how things were normally done, so if you wanted bodily autonomy in your marriage, you needed to disclose that before getting engaged. Otherwise that would basically be considered false advertising and your husband would still be reasonably entitled to what he believed he was signing up for.

“With the development of the idea of personal freedom has come the feeling, on the part of many women, that they should have the right of ownership of their own bodies — in other words, that they should have the privilege of choosing whether or not they will acquiesce in their husband’s desire for entering into the physical relationship of marriage.

Since, however, it has been for so long a time an accepted idea that the husband’s right over the wife’s body was inherent, it is advisable for any young woman who takes the other point of view to make her attitude thoroughly understood by her future husband before she definitely takes upon herself the obligations of the marriage state” (Bernarr Macfadden. Womanhood and Marriage. 1918).

See what’s missing again?

Any reference to sex being beautiful and intimate between two people. This intimate aspect of sex is such a fundamental thing in the way that God made it, and yet it is constantly downplayed in the way our culture talks about sex.

I suppose, in the Victorian era, that’s because control and shame became so central. How can something which has to be controlled and which brings shame also bring closeness?

But with so much sex advice focused on how women could make men not want sex (since too much sex was considered bad for everyone, and dampening people’s libidos was considered good), then how could sex be seen as intimate?

I think it was in the Victorian era that prostitution began to be seen as something really bad. 

Marriage between one woman and one man was seriously supposed to be just between two people, so using prostitutes was frowned upon (even though it had been quite widespread in other eras). The emphasis instead became upon cooling everyone’s sex drive, which was seen as something dangerous and could cause people to abandon their families. 

Connor had a good time reading some old Victorian and Edwardian marriage manuals for this! Anything else you’ve heard or want to comment on?

What stands out to you? See any holdovers to what we believe today? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sex Throughout the Ages Series8 Weird Facts about Sex in Roman Times (April 6)The Significance of 1 Corinthians 6-7 in light of Roman culture (April 7)A Romp Through Medieval Times and Sex (April 13)10 Weird Pieces of Victorian Sex Advice (April 14)10 Weird Things to Know about the Kinsey Report (April 19)10 Pieces of Advice from a 1970s Sex Manual (April 20)10 Ways the Christian 1970s Culture Tried to Be Sex Positive–While Also Fighting Back against the Sexual Revolution (April 21)5 Ways Millennials Grew up More Conservative than Generation X in the Church (aka Purity Culture!) (April 26)The Contagion Theory of Sexuality–and How to Change It (April 27)A Liturgy of Lament for What We Taught our Kids (April 28)A Liturgy of Lament for the Teaching We Received about Sex and a Prayer for Healing (April 30) Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts PODCAST: What Teens Need to Hear to Keep a Healthy View of Sex

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What did they believe about sex during the medieval period?

What did they do that was weird? And what did they have in common with us?

In April we’re looking at a sex through the ages series. Sometimes we think of sex as biological, hard-wired, everything-has-always-been-exactly-how-we-think-of-it-now-and-ever-shall-be.

That’s why it’s useful to look at how they thought throughout history so that we can get a better look at what may be cultural in our own time, and how we can focus on what God meant for sex.

Last week we looked at sex in Roman times–and now we’ll fast forward many centuries to the medieval period! I asked Connor to do some research for me, and here’s what he came up with:

1. People Believed that Sexual Sin Brought Divine Punishment

And it kind of made sense to think that at the time. There was a lot of disease, including STIs. But medical science still wasn’t great, and there were a lot of misconceptions about how the body worked. But what people observed was that when a man slept with numerous women, or had sex with a prostitute, he tended to get a horrible leprous disease on his genitals that would sometimes prove fatal, and almost always prove unpleasant.

2. Too Much Sex Was Bad, But So Was Not Enough Sex

There are numerous accounts of deaths of prominent clergy members, and men who were away from their wives on military campaign whose deaths were attributed to their celibacy. A lot of medieval medical science was based off of the model of the four humours (blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile) that composed the human body and temperament. It was believed that these four humours must be kept in balance by managing what what went in to their body, and what came out.

Ever wonder why ancient medicine was so obsessed with leeches? Bloodletting was one of the ways that people tried to balance the humours. If a person has a certain illness or personality issue, they must have too much blood. Well that line of logic extended to semen as well. It was believed that if one did not have sex for a prolonged period, semen would build up inside their body, causing a number of issues and potentially resulting in death.

3. Clerics Had to Choose

Since celibacy was regarded as an unhealthy choice, clerics had a tough choice to make. Preserve the spirit, or the body. Their religion told them to be celibate, but when they became sick, medical professionals would tell them that if they didn’t abandon their celibacy, they would only get worse and possibly die. And clerics would sometimes believe it, but choose to remain celibate anyways.

4. Women Weren’t Safe From This Build Up Either

Because it was observed that conception relied on the semen released from male climax, people believed that the woman must also produce some form of ‘seed’ within her that was released during sex. And just like a man, she would suffer illness if that seed built up from a lack of action.

5. There Were Recommended Alternatives to Sex

TW: Physician sexual abuse

Physicians would encourage a number of solutions for a woman who was unmarried, whose husband was away, or who could not have sex for some other reason, or for celibate clerics. They could take certain herbal supplements or vinegar suppositories, avoid certain foods like wine and red meat, or masturbate. One could stimulate themselves, or often just have their physician perform the therapeutic ‘genital massage.’ Of course, the church did not approve of this last solution, so many opted out lest they face mandatory penance.

Other solutions favoured by the church involved various methods of balancing the humours by excreting other fluids that were believed to derive from the same source as semen. Sweating through vigorous exercise, bloodletting, and lachrymose weeping prayers were all solid options.

 

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Tell Me More about It! I Need that Now! 6. Sex Was Considered a Sin, But One That Was Made Permissible if Performed in Marriage for Procreation

Sex was bad, and sexuality was bad. But it was also a medical necessity, so people were expected to get married and then have sex to produce offspring. Since missionary was believed to be the best position for reproduction (due to gravity affecting the sperm), it was regarded to be the natural and appropriate sex position. Other positions were often frowned upon, and other forms of intercourse such as manual, oral, or anything else really were considered sinful and labeled sodomy.

7. Women Were Actually Believed to Be MORE Sexual Than Men

The Church and society believed that women were more desiring of sex, and more prone to sexual temptation. This may have been influenced by the story of Adam and Eve, but also appears to come from the observation that women were sometimes horny even while menstruating or pregnant (times where sex would not lead to reproduction).

8. Despite This, There Was a Heavy Double Standard Favoring Men

While women were supposed to be more prone to sexual temptation, there was far more of an emphasis on fidelity and chastity for a woman than for a man. Upon getting married, control over her sexuality was symbolically handed over to her husband. All of her worth and value was in her faithfulness and chasteness. It was of utmost importance that she remain entirely faithful. Meanwhile, prostitutes existed mostly for men. While prostitution was frowned upon, it was considered a necessary evil to keep sexual sin from running rampant. If a man wanted to do something degrading to a woman, people figured it was better that he do it with a prostitute, who was already considered depraved, than with his wife who should remain chaste and pure. Likewise, if a man wanted to have sex outside of his marriage, people figured it was better to do it with a prostitute than with someone else’s wife, because to sleep with another man’s wife was to strip her of all worth.

9. Women Didn’t Have a Lot of Opportunities to Have Sex

As previously mentioned, people were only supposed to have sex within marriage. And while men weren’t really punished for soliciting prostitutes, and received minor charges for adultery, extramarital sex was very serious for women. But even within marriage, to do anything other than regular penetrative missionary sex was frowned upon and potentially illegal, which ruled out a lot of more reliable routes to female pleasure. And there were even further constraints. Women weren’t supposed to have sex on certain days of the week, feast days of the saints, lent, advent, during menstruation, during pregnancy, or while breastfeeding. And since the church only accepted sex as a form of procreation, women were just supposed to churn out a steady stream of children. A man could bypass this by just having sex with a prostitute, thereby not damaging his wife’s purity or having sex with her when she was impure (menstruation, pregnancy, breastfeeding), and would maybe receive a lecture from the church, but the wife could face severe social and legal consequences should she deviate from what the church and society approved.

10. Courtly Love was Coming into Vogue

The idea of romantic love was beginning to be popularized–that you would be head over heels in love with someone. However, that “someone” was rarely a spouse, as marriage was seen as a contractual arrangement. 

Courtly love was also often not seen as sexual, but was about poetry and love songs and flowers and such, while often sex was still reserved for prostitutes. We find in some of the medieval literature the idea of courtly love starting, as people were often married off without ever knowing their future spouse, and then, over time, they would find the real one that would stir their heart. 

As I look at this list, I see shame–and little opportunity for women to have pleasure.

Sex is seen as bad, even if it’s sometimes necessary, and all kinds of efforts were made to control it. 

And, even though they acknowledged women had sex drives, they seemed to do their utmost to make sure women didn’t have a lot of pleasure. 

Also, similar to sex in Roman times, sex is never considered an intimate, bonding experience, but rather something that is simply medically necessary.

I’ll let you all debate why that is as we lead up to tomorrow’s post on Victorian sex!

Okay, amateur historians! Anything else to add (like any commentary on The Canterbury Tales and sex?) Or did any of those stand out to you? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sex Throughout the Ages Series8 Weird Facts about Sex in Roman Times (April 6)The Significance of 1 Corinthians 6-7 in light of Roman culture (April 7)A Romp Through Medieval Times and Sex (April 13)10 Weird Pieces of Victorian Sex Advice (April 14)10 Weird Things to Know about the Kinsey Report (April 19)10 Pieces of Advice from a 1970s Sex Manual (April 20)10 Ways the Christian 1970s Culture Tried to Be Sex Positive--While Also Fighting Back against the Sexual Revolution (April 21)5 Ways Millennials Grew up More Conservative than Generation X in the Church (aka Purity Culture!) (April 26)The Contagion Theory of Sexuality--and How to Change It (April 27)A Liturgy of Lament for What We Taught our Kids (April 28)A Liturgy of Lament for the Teaching We Received about Sex and a Prayer for Healing (April 30) Connor Lindenbach

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

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I’d like to talk to you today about how I’m feeling, and a bit about what’s going on behind the scenes.

So grab a coffee and get comfy, because this is going to be a long one!

To begin, let me tell you a story.

Imagine you have a crazy Uncle Joe. Uncle Joe is a pastor, and everybody knows it. He is very opinionated and very loud, and quite the bully. He makes offensive jokes constantly, and likes to roll his eyes at his neighbors and generally judge the heck out of them.

Uncle Joe has a timid wife whom he has beaten down and two teenage kids. One is sullen and angry at his parents and wants nothing to do with the church and is counting the days until he can leave home. One is beaten down and depressed and seems to have little drive, and gets picked on by his dad all the time.

Every July 4, you have to go to a barbecue with your extended family at Uncle Joe’s house. The barbecue takes place in his small backyard in a subdivision, and all of Uncle Joe’s neighbors are out in their backyards doing similar things. All the neighbors know three things about Uncle Joe:

He’s a pastor who says he loves Jesus;he’s a bully and super offensive;and his family looks scared.

At the barbecue, Uncle Joe starts railing against some group that he thinks is responsible for all the evil in the world. You can see, over the fenceline, that the neighbors can hear. His wife looks awkward. His kids look away.

You know if you speak up, you will become the target for Uncle Joe’s anger, and he will erupt into a big fight that all the neighbours will see.

So here’s the question: what do you think will give the neighbors a better, more accurate view of God? If you say nothing and listen to the tirade and go home and don’t cause a scene, or if you cause a scene and tell Uncle Joe that what he is saying does not sound like Christ? What do you think will help the wife and teenage kids see that they don’t have to put up with his bullying? If you say something, or if you try to keep the peace?

Sometimes people need to be challenged–not so that you change that person’s mind (because that person’s mind is unlikely to be changed), but so that those around you will see that this person does not speak for Jesus. And so that those around you will also feel emboldened to speak up.

Okay, that was story 1. Now for some stats.

Among Millennials, the “Dones” now outnumber those sitting in the pews

I think this is likely true for Generation Z as well, I’m just not sure how old the youngest Generation Z people are yet. But those who have left the church among millennials is a higher number than those who are going.

I saw a meme last week that said something like this:

We often think those leaving the church are doing so because they’re leaving Jesus. To the contrary. Many are leaving the church because it’s the only way to hold on to Him.

This is what we were talking about in our feeling spiritually homeless podcast last December. So many churches have become spiritually dangerous places because of their attitudes towards women, towards power, towards different racial groups, towards those who may think a little differently than they do. So many churches are about control rather than love.

This week on the podcast we’ll be talking with Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer, authors of A Church Called Tov, about how to create churches with goodness cultures. But many churches don’t have that. And so people are leaving not because they’re giving up on Jesus but because sitting in the pews, and seeing people misuse the name of Jesus, hurts their spiritual life more than leaving does.

I’m not saying that’s true of all churches; that’s why I’ve been endlessly encouraging people who feel lost to look outside their denomination; look for a smaller community church; try something different if you can. But some people are so burnt out they genuinely need a break.

You may not see this phenomenon going on. You may be in a great church, and think everyone’s missing the point. You may assume that the younger generation just doesn’t love God.

But stats show that’s not true. The younger generations do love God. They just want a church that is about justice and love, not just about being right–with “right” defined very narrowly. They can’t take all the scandals and the bullying and what they see as hypocrisy.

Really, they are that sullen teenager leaving Uncle Joe.

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost.

Jesus said that it is not the healthy that need a physician, but the sick. Jesus is concerned with those who are lost.

And that means that these people need to matter to us.

And the people who have never been part of the fold need to matter to us as well.

Jesus left the 99 to go after the 1. People matter to Jesus; people who feel marginalized, left out, excluded. They matter to Him.

Okay, we’ve had Story #1 and Stats #1. Now let’s have Exhibit #1.

There is no universe in which it is acceptable for a pastor to post this on social media

 

This is misogynistic. It just is. And for a pastor to have his social media filled with memes like this is just plain unChristlike.

Jesus would not talk about Mary Magdalene like this. Paul called women his fellow co-workers in Christ. He did not demean them and say that they were untrainable.

And someone who makes their living primarily as a marriage speaker, and who speaks at large marriage events throughout the United States, should not be filling their social media with memes that demean women.

Even if you think this is overreacting, think of Uncle Joe’s neighbors.

They are watching. And as these memes get published on Uncle Joe’s Facebook Page, it solidifies everything they think they already know about Christians. It makes Uncle Joe’s kids even more likely to leave the church when they get older.

Even if you don’t think it is a big deal, if Jesus’ concern is for the lost, then what should our attitude be?

Okay, now we have Story #1, Stats #1, and Exhibit #1. Now for Story #2.

Last week a famous marriage pastor said he was sad I was real and that I was disgusting.

He also said I was arrogant; crazy; that he had no respect for me as a person. He laughed when people called me a pig and narcissistic, and he laughed at a joke that called me sexually unfulfilled, saying no one would touch me with a ten foot pole.

What was my crime? When he put up a post about how sexless marriages should be grounds for divorce, I made a comment saying that we needed a more nuanced conversation, because our survey of 20,000 women showed that sexless marriages don’t happen out of the blue, for no reason. And talking about the problem of sexlessness without also addressing the 47 point orgasm gap between men and women is missing a large part of the story.

The conversation moved to Twitter where he got very insulting. I don’t want to tell the whole story here; I may in a podcast one day, although I’d rather focus on what I think is problematic about not seeing sexlessness in a nuanced way. But if you want to see the saga, I wrote a Twitter thread about it here; you can click through and read. (click the little blue bird and then hit “show this thread” at the bottom of the last tweet).

On Twitter, he continues to hurl insults while I try to engage him in rational conversation about the issues. And yet he calls me the arrogant one. pic.twitter.com/TD8z5ZWGXh

— Sheila Gregoire--The Great Sex Rescue is here! (@sheilagregoire) April 10, 2021

Some say that I shouldn’t be so argumentative, and that they liked me better before I started speaking up about these issues.

This blog was nicer when I just gave advice.

And I get it. That was seriously much more emotionally healthy for me, too!

But it also ignored what was happening on the ground.

Over the last few months I have gained so many new followers. My podcast listeners have doubled since September. My Instagram has doubled. My social media reach and newsletter reach is now about 200,000 people. And quite a few are here because they finally feel heard. They finally feel like they can see Jesus again!

Most of my followers now are here because they desperately want to see this bad teaching taken down and to see a more life-giving picture of what it is to follow Jesus. 

But then there are those who have been following me for longer who think that I’m giving the church a bad name because I’m speaking up.

We would do better not to air our disagreements in public. We would do better to keep everything quiet so we don’t fight before unbelievers. When you engage in these fights publicly, you hurt the body.

I understand the sentiment, but I don’t agree. I think Uncle Joe’s neighbors need to hear people pushing back against Uncle Joe, and telling him his views do not represent Jesus. If we take it all inside where they don’t see, how does that help them change their view of who Jesus is?

Let’s keep our eyes on the prize–on who really needs to be protected; on who Jesus is pursuing. 

Please remember who the victim is when bad teaching is confronted.

In everything with Mark Gungor last week, I was not the victim. Yes, I was called names and he said he wished I didn’t exist. But I wasn’t standing up for myself. I spoke on that post because several women sent it to me and were disturbed by it and asked me to (that’s how I see everyone else’s social media stuff; I don’t follow them. My followers send me the disturbing stuff hoping I’ll say something).

I was speaking up for those who were being hurt by that post, because they are the real victims.

And then, once things got ugly, I was speaking up because it must not be acceptable for evangelical pastors to be insulting and misogynistic like that. It simply must not. I care about millennials. I care about people leaving the church. And this stuff poisons the church. If we want to have any witness at all, we simply have to root it out. And that means that sometimes we must get loud–and that means that I make myself a target.

But just as I am not the victim, they are not the victim, either, when I push back.

Mark Gungor shared a statement that Shaunti Feldhahn wrote after The Great Sex Rescue was published, because our book showed how her book, For Women Only, contained some problematic teachings. In her statement, she portrays herself as the victim of my actions. I wrote a statement in response a month ago, but I never shared it publicly because I didn’t want to inflame the situation, and Shaunti’s going through a difficult health time. But now that he has shared hers to the world, and hers is circulating, I must defend The Great Sex Rescue.

 

See our Statement about The Great Sex Recue

Shaunti Feldhahn’s statement is linked within mine so you can read it and judge for yourself. Please note that in her statement, she makes many accusations about me, but never links to mine. In my statement, I have tried to provide full context and quote her completely, to be fair. 

See the statement Over the last week, the support I have received from my readers has been humbling.

I have had hundreds upon hundreds of you try to leave comments on Mark Gungor’s page defending me, and he has deleted and blocked almost every one of you, no matter how kind your comments were. I have received hundreds of messages of support. Thank you. I’m still working through replying to all of the messages on Instagram! (I’m sorry if I haven’t gotten to yours yet; I tried to take yesterday off).

But I have also received about 6 messages like this:

I have been a follower of your blog for several years. I have learned so many wonderful things in that time. Unfortunately, lately I almost cringe when I see the posts. The underlying tone has turned bitter and the posts have changed their purpose. I whole heartedly believe you see sex and marriage in the true biblical sense. Unfortunately, for a long time follower, the blog has taken a new turn that I don’t like. I don’t feel like the blog is doing what your original purpose was. It has become a defensive battle ground. I pray that the blog gets back to encouraging, educating, and lifting people up like many of these posts.

And I guess that is the point of why I’m writing this post.

I know that it was nicer when my blog was only about advice.

It was nicer for me, too. Right now big name authors are debating suing us, and we are dealing with that, because we dared to ask 20,000 women about what teachings hurt their sex lives.

But again, I am not the victim. The people being hurt by the teachings are the victims. The people leaving the church over teachings like these are the victims. And we have to stand up if our priorities are going to be in the right place.

When we wrote that post two weeks ago about Emerson Eggerichs’ sermons gaslighting abuse victims, we weren’t planning on it. We only did that when he started sending copyright notices against us. We had other posts planned.

I didn’t plan on my week being taken up by Mark Gungor last week; that only happened because rather than dialogue with me, he started insulting people and banning people, and then I noticed how misogynistic his social media feed was.

I had other plans for this week (and still do), and we’ll be moving on to weird stuff about sex in medieval times and Victorian times tomorrow and Wednesday!

But when I speak up, I do so because I need these authors who keep threatening to sue me to know that they can’t bully me. I have an army of people who just want healthy stuff out there, and we will be loud, and we will persevere, because the sheep matter. 

The well-being of the sheep matter more than the reputations of those who have led them.

The well-being of the sheep matter more than the platforms of those who have led them.

Finally, one more thing, that I shared on Facebook last night:

I do not want to cancel other authors.

 

Do I want to cancel authors who don’t agree with me? Do I want to steal their platforms?

NO! Not at all.

What I’ve been praying for is that those who will point people to Jesus-centred, healthy marriages and sex lives will see their platforms enlarge, and those who are pointing people away from health and away from Jesus will see their platforms shrink.

In my ideal world, those who currently have big platforms but teach things that we now know are harmful would simply repent and start teaching that which is healthy! Imagine how powerful that would be! To have someone admit they’re wrong and teach what’s right, who has access to so many people already who likely believe harmful things? That would be incredible!

As for me, I will continue to do what I feel God has called me to do, which is spread healthy teaching about marriage and sexuality, and point people to Jesus.

But if, one day, others are doing it better and have bigger platforms, I will gladly (GLADLY) step away. I have a whole basement full of yarn and so many patterns I want to knit. I have a grandson (and will likely have more grandkids over the next few years). Keith and I would LOVE to do some work in Africa. We’d love to do more birdwatching.

So I am not out to cancel ANYONE. I am simply out to cancel harmful teaching. And if any authors who we have found teach harmful things change their minds? I will be the FIRST to praise them to the skies!

Sheila, on Facebook

Sometimes, for the sake of Jesus, we need to get uncomfortable.

I would love–LOVE–if I could just write this blog the way I want to, and work on more courses, and just give great advice.

But when others are hurting the church, we need to speak up. For the sake of Uncle Joe’s neighbors. For the sake of Uncle Joe’s kids. For the sake of Uncle Joe’s wife.

And hopefully one day, so many others will take on this task, so that I can go and knit in peace!

UPDATE: And because we spoke up on social media, a sexual assault survivor who left the church 6 years ago because she says Mark Gungor mishandled her sexual abuse disclosure felt free to go public. And Christians surrounded her with validation and comfort. For the first time in a long time, Christians have reached out to her with something other than judgment. She matters.

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now!

I’m hesitant to ask for your thoughts, because I’m a little emotionally worn down right now and I have to do some major writing today! But, as always, I welcome your comments and feedback!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts 8 Weird Sex Facts about the Romans

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Our Healthy Sexuality Rubric and Scorecard of Evangelical Books is Live!

How can you tell if a book, website, or even a church is healthy when it comes to sex teaching, or harmful?

My inbox fills up with people asking me what I think of this book, or what I think of that book. And chances are I haven’t read it! I don’t have time to read everything.

But I understand why people are asking. As we’ve been talking so much over the last few years about how many evangelical books actually spread messages about sex that are harmful, people want to make sure they avoid them.

Today I want to give you a tool that will help you uncover whether a resource is healthy or unhealthy when it comes to sex.

I ran a version of this post back in February, but we’ve got the scorecard and rubric live for everyone now, so I wanted to run it again!

Our book The Great Sex Rescue is based on four different types of research:

Our survey of 20,000 womenFollow-up intensive interviews and focus groupsA look at peer-reviewed research in the fieldA review of our top evangelical best-selling books on marriage & sex and seeing what messages they give

The hypothesis that we were testing with our survey was, “Are there teachings that are common in evangelical circles that hurt women’s sexual and marital satisfaction?” So we asked  ton of questions about women’s marriages and sex lives, and then asked if they had been taught, or if they believed or had believed, a wide variety of messages.

From that, we were able to identify which messages were really toxic!

Then we combined that with data from other studies, and we now had a picture of what healthy teaching about sex looked like.

So we created a 12-question rubric–a scorecard, so to speak–of healthy teaching when it comes to sex.

Here are the questions that we used:

12-Point Rubric on Healthy SexualityInfidelity and Lust:

1. Does the book acknowledge that the blame for a husband’s affair or porn use lies at the feet of the husband, or does it, at least in part, blame the wife?
2. Does the book acknowledge that porn use must be dealt with before a healthy sexual relationship can be built while acknowledging that very few porn habits begun in the internet age are caused by a wife’s refusal to have sex, or does it suggest that the remedy to a porn habit is more frequent sexual activity?
3. Does the book acknowledge the effect of pornography on men’s self-perception, sex drives, and sexual function, or does it ignore porn’s harm to marriages?
4. Does the book frame lust as something both spouses may struggle with, even if men tend to struggle more, or does it state that since all men struggle with lust, it can’t be defeated, and the only way to combat lust is for wives to have sex more and women to dress modestly?

Pleasure and Libido:

5. Does the book acknowledge women’s orgasm and women’s enjoyment of the physical aspects of sex, or does it imply that most or all women do not enjoy sex?
6. Does the book frame sex as something a woman will anticipate and look forward to, or does it frame sex as something she will tend to dread?
7. Does the book describe men’s sexual appetite as healthy but also containable and controllable, or are men’s sexual needs portrayed as ravenous, insatiable, and constant?
8. Does the book acknowledge that in a large minority of marriages, the wife has a higher libido than her husband, or does it oversimplify, implying that virtually all husbands have higher libidos than their wives?

Mutuality:

9. Does the book explain that sex has many purposes, including intimacy, closeness, fun, and physical pleasure for both, or does it portray sex as being primarily about fulfilling his physical need?
10. Does the book stress personal appearance and hygiene equally for both parties, or is far more expected from wives than from husbands, and is it implied that if she does not maintain a level of attractiveness, he may have an affair?
11. Does the book discuss the importance of foreplay and a husband’s role in his wife’s pleasure, or does the book ignore a husband’s responsibility to help his wife feel pleasure?
12. Does the book include reasons why a woman may legitimately say, “Not tonight, honey,” and discuss the concept of marital rape, or does the book say that a woman refusing sex is a sin or fail to recognize rape within its anecdotes?

 

That’s our starting point. But then what do you do with those questions?

Well, we also created a scoring sheet that helps you score each of the 12 measures on a scale of 0-4.

We’ve got that scoring sheet, plus the scorecard of how all the books rated, available as a free download!

 

Get your rubric and scorecard now!

The rubric is available as a .pdf download, and the scorecard of 14 books (and counting) is a live Google sheet that we’ll be updating frequently (we hope!).

Take me to them!

Want to know how Love & Respect scored? His Needs, Her Needs? The Act of Marriage? Sheet Music? Find out which resources scored the worst, and which ones scored the best (and there were some really good ones!).

And as you’re looking at the rubric and the scorecard, just a reminder that, even after being warned, Focus on the Family called Love & Respect a “biblically sound and empowering message for wives.” Check out my statement in response to theirs–their statement is linked in it. 

The scorecard and complete scoring sheet aren’t even in the book–so these are genuine extras you won’t get there, but we want to make available. And they’re just fascinating to look through.

Our goal is that people will be empowered to look at resources with a discerning eye.

By showing you what healthy and unhealthy look like, hopefully people will be able to judge marriage books and sex books for themselves. And if a book doesn’t get a “healthy” rating, then you shouldn’t be using it or recommending it or studying it in a group study. (And, again, several did get healthy ratings!).

You may also enjoy:Is it okay if a marriage book is just a little bit harmful?Why I Speak Up when Women are Getting HarmedThe Thalidomide and marriage books podcast

 

The Great Sex RescueNow Available! What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the things that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these messages?

Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue. Order Now! Who should use this rubric?

Anyone who wants to make sure the stuff they’re reading and recommending is healthy! But here’s how we’re hoping it will be used:

Church librarians will laminate and post the rubric so people can be made aware of what healthy teaching looks likeWomen’s Bible study leaders won’t suggest a book to study before looking at whether it’s healthy or notPastors will use the rubric to vet the materials they recommendCounselors will use the rubric not only to vet materials, but also to teach those they counsel how to identify harmful/helpful messagesYouth group leaders will make sure the messages they spread are healthy, like we talked about Monday on our post on how to ensure youth groups talk about sex in a healthy wayMarriage teachers/speakers will make sure their messages line up with what’s healthyRegular people will use the rubric to be discerning about the books they study and recommend, and to help identify where they’ve been believing harmful messages, too.

Let’s all get in the habit of being discerning, and asking: “does this book actually treat women’s sexuality in a healthy way?”

Here’s how the scorecard works:

When we were offering the scorecard as a pre-order bonus, we made it a .pdf download. We’ve decided that we’d rather just let you see our live Google sheet, where we can make changes and add new books. So consider this a work in progress! We’re hoping to add more books as we read them as well.

We also added quotes from the books so that you can see why we scored the books on each of the 12 points the way that we did, and so that you can go back and check for yourself.

In general, what I’ve found is that books that are heavily gendered (talking about how men are one way and women are another) scored quite poorly, while books that allow for nuance and for a wide range of experiences tend to do better. So that’s a good thing to look out for when you buy books in the future! Do they pigeonhole people, or do they acknowledge that there is a wide range of “normal”?

Church, it’s okay to demand better.

It’s okay to ask publishers and authors to teach about sex well, in a way that doesn’t harm.

This is a deeper invitation to do this better. This is a call for health. Jesus came so that we may have life to the full. He wants abundance for us. So there is absolutely no reason, and  no excuse, for resources that claim his name to end up stealing great sex from couples. It’s time to demand more.

It’s time to change the conversation.

I hope this rubric can be one tiny step towards that goal!

Get the scorecard and rubric here!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Honestly: We Need Your Help.

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PODCAST: What Teens Need to Hear to Keep a Healthy View of Sex

So if you’ve been loving what we’ve been sharing about The Great Sex Rescue–how do you make sure your kids grow up with healthy teachings?

Today on the podcast we tackled how to translate some of our most important themes into something that we share with teens–and we answer some of your parenting/sex questions!

Listen to the Podcast Here

Browse all the Different Podcasts

See the Last “Start Your Engines” (Men’s) Podcast

Or, as always, you can watch on YouTube:

 

Timeline of the Podcast

2:20 Talking to youth about sex
4:45 Is context more important that what you do with your body?
6:00 Focus on Wisdom + Consent
9:40 What we NEED to tell our teens about boundaries
15:30 Let’s discuss how messy the conversation around porn is with teens
20:55 Teens DO have sexual feelings, and that’s not wrong?
26:50 RESEARCH: Masturbation rates in teens
31:00 We need a nuanced conversation concerning masturbation
32:50 RQ: I caught my son looking at stuff on the computer!
40:03 RQ: My daughter keeps watching videos of horses mating!
43:30 RQ: Encouraging my husband to help with teen boys
45:25 Another happy review!

Main Segment: What Should I Tell My Teens?

We received a lovely email from a woman who had read The Great Sex Rescue, and was asked to do a talk to the youth group in her church for about half an hour. She was trying to distill the most important points into a talk, and she asked for our input.

So Rebecca and I went over what we think teens need to hear–and you may want them to listen to this whole podcast with you, too!

Our big points were:

Having sexual feelings/feeling attracted to people is normalDon’t tell kids to stay pure until marriage. Chastity (or following God’s design for sex) is a lifelong thing, and it isn’t only about not having sex before you’re married.Talk to kids about WHY God wants us to wait for marriage. Don’t make it into this sin/punishment issue, but instead a wisdom, make good choices issueTeach kids about consent. Have sexual boundaries yourself, but also honor the sexual boundaries of whoever you are with. If someone doesn’t honor yours, they’re not a safe personPorn use is widespread, sure, but it’s not inevitable. And girls can be tempted, too! Plus let’s frame porn as a justice issue. It’s driving sex trafficking.The way to fight lust is to learn to treat others as whole people

I’m sure we said some other things, too, but listen in and see if there’s anything you’d want to add!

New Research: How Often Do Teens Masturbate?

A number of the evangelical books we looked at for The Great Sex Rescue talked about boys being more prepared for marriage because they masturbated beforehand. But these authors seem to ignore that the majority of girls masturbate, too. So let’s look at the actual numbers. It’s good to be aware of this because it can shape how we address it with teens (and Rebecca and I gave a few talking points, too).

Across age groups, more males (73.8%) reported masturbation than females (48.1%). Among males, masturbation occurrence increased with age: at age 14 years, 62.6% of males reported at least 1 prior occurrence, whereas 80% of 17-year-old males reported ever having masturbated. Recent masturbation also increased with age in males: 67.6% of 17-year-olds reported masturbation in the past month, compared with 42.9% of 14-year-olds. In females, prior masturbation increased with age (58% at age 17 years compared with 43.3% at age 14 years), but recent masturbation did not. Masturbation was associated with numerous partnered sexual behaviors in both males and females. In males, masturbation was associated with condom use, but in females it was not.

Prevalence, Frequency, and Associations of Masturbation With Partnered Sexual Behaviors Among US Adolescents

JAMA network

Reader Questions: Kids, Porn & Curiosity

We had a number of questions that I put Keith on the spot for–since he is a pediatrician! 

We worked through these ones:

I was committed to open, honest, Christian early conversations with our kids (two young teens, younger son). So we started early and every couple years re-visited with more age appropriate information. We homeschool and have pretty tight “tech” controls (yeah right!).

So in November, I checked my young teen son’s viewing history on his device, as I often do. He was in the room with me and started saying “Oh No!”. So I stopped and gave him a chance to tell my husband and I what we were about to see.

“I just wanted to know what a clitoris was”.

“Why?”

“You said something about it when we had ‘the talk’… so I wanted to see.”

“Ok. I wish you’d asked Dad or I, because wandering internet gets nasty really fast”.

He said he had only seen pictures with bikinis, but when we looked it was worse and I was so gutted! I wanted it to be different for him.

We confronted him with the lying. We told him he’s allowed to know the information and we understand curiosity- but he broke the rules for using Youtube and the internet. So there was a consequence. We also said that it’s not sinful to feel aroused, but it is sinful to use other peoples private and intimate relationship for your pleasure like voyeurism. And we assured him that our Lord God is faithful to forgive when you repent.

So we have another chance with our younger child to try to get it right. And our son has shown the weaknesses in our tech lock down- never locked enough!

So the questions… -How do you give them information without them having just enough to get into trouble? -Is this going to lead to more searching of “information”? – Does that initial exposure to porn doom him to being a user? -How can they have healthy relationships with God and future spouse?
I knew the stats “80% of boys have seen porn by the time they are 13”. BUT it wasn’t gonna be my kids!

Hi! I have a nine year old girl who looks up YouTube videos of animals mating. I believe she became intrigued by this by reading books about horses that had chapters about breeding them. Her screen time is normally properly monitored but if she is using my phone to listen to podcasts she might arrange to be alone and look up some videos. I haven’t been wanting to scold her for an interest in something that is a science topic and is natural for people and animals. But I think she is drawn to it too much. And it may be starting to be a problem. I have told her no videos of animals mating and she agrees and is remorseful but then gets caught again. How do I stop this from growing into an unhealthy fascination?

How do I help my husband stay emotionally involved with our teen sons?

You're telling me WHAT goes WHERE?!

Talking about sex with your kids doesn't always go smoothly. 

That's why we created The Whole Story, our online course that walks parents through the tough conversations and does the hard parts for you!

Learn More! Things Mentioned in This Podcast:Our Patreon! Help fund getting our research into peer-reviewed journals and onto new social media channels. Even $3 or $5 a month helps!The Whole Story: Our puberty & sex course for moms/daughters or dads/sons (or single parents & opposite sex child!)The problem with Shaunti Feldhahn’s survey question where she said that 82% of boys had little ability or felt little responsibility to stop the sexual progressionThat study about teenagers and masturbation ratesThe Great Sex Rescue: Our new book with lots of great research about lust, etc.  Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts The POWER and STATISTICS Podcast! Science Shouldn’t Be That Hard

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3 Keys to Interpreting Paul’s Writings on Sex in Light of Roman Culture

How does understanding Rome’s view of sex impact how we should interpret Paul’s writings in 1 Corinthians?

We’re starting a series in the month of April of views of sex throughout history, and I started yesterday looking at 8 weird things about ancient Rome and sex.

Today I want to use those things to help us look at what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Corinthians 7 with new eyes. I find this so exciting and so liberating, and I hope you will too!

1. Paul insisted that sex isn’t just physical; it’s intimate too.

Yesterday we were looking at how one of the defining features of sex in Roman times was that it was about power. It was a man penetrating someone else; what made him masculine was that he was doing the penetrating. The other person was basically there to be used.

So sex was not a joining of two bodies and souls but more a one-sided taking. Even if the one being taken enjoyed it, it was still about the person taking.

This was also a culture where using prostitutes was considered normal male behavior. Wives were for producing offspring; prostitutes were for sex. When the people of Corinth became Christians, then, they still had some pretty warped views of sex. And into that, Paul wrote some pretty impassioned words about how we were to see this practice of using prostitutes. In the famous “your body is a temple” verses, he writes:

Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

1 Corinthians 6:15-20

Paul is saying that sex is more than just physical! In a world where sex was basically divorced from intimate relationships, Paul steps in and says that when you’re with a prostitute, you’re “one with her in spirit.”

Now, some weird doctrines have emerged from that verse to say that we have “soul ties” with anyone that we’ve ever had sex with, and I’m not trying to say that here, and I don’t think the passage says that. But Paul is saying that we need to take the act of sex more seriously. He’s reflecting back on what is written in Genesis 4–“Adam KNEW his wife Eve.” Sex was meant to be this deep knowing, this deep intimacy, this deep longing to be connected. It is something sacred, but not in the “temple prostitute” kind of sacred. It’s something beautiful between two people, and it should not be taken lightly.
Paul is restoring intimacy to the idea of sex, a concept that was sadly lacking. And that’s beautiful!

2. Paul thought the body was good, not bad

But to balance with this idea that sex isn’t only about the body, Paul then steps in one chapter later and stresses that the body is actually good.

In this culture where sex was about power and was rather ugly, many people converting to Christianity were also committing to a life of celibacy. The Greek philosophy that the body was bad and the soul was good was still rampant at this time, and had infiltrated the church. It was only natural in a society that saw the body as bad, and that treated sex as ugly, that new Christians would think you could be more godly by giving up on sex altogether.

In fact, when Paul talks about “virgins” in 1 Corinthians 7, he doesn’t mean virginity as the state of one’s hymen, as we often think of it. Many scholars believe instead that he’s referring to people, and especially women, who have pledged themselves to a life of celibacy.
Paul honors those who do want this, saying:

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 1 Corinthians 7:8

Want to say unmarried? That’s great! The unmarried can dedicate themselves to God wholeheartedly because they don’t need to worry about their family.

But then one verse later he also says this:

But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1 Corinthians 7:9

We may laugh at the phrasing, but he’s really saying, “hey, if you want to marry, go for it! You don’t need to stay single!”

And that’s really the context for the “do not deprive” verses that are so iconic.

Other than Ephesians 5:22 (“wives, submit to your husbands”), I can’t think of any other verses that have been so weaponized against Christian women as 1 Corinthians 7:3-5. But as we look closer at them today, I hope you’ll see that the weaponization is totally AGAINST what Paul is saying. And actually his message is really freeing!

So let’s see how Paul sets it up:

 

Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

So Paul was being asked by those who wanted to be celibate if this was a good thing to do if they were already married, and he’s saying–No! If you’re married, you should have sex. There is nothing actually bad about sexual relations in their proper place. In fact, they’re a good thing!

And then he goes on to add those verses that we too often have come to hate:

 

The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 1 Corinthians 7:3-5

In this context of marriage where one spouse may choose to declare themselves celibate in service to God, Paul is saying, “do not deprive each other.” He’s not talking about never refusing sex when you have a headache; he’s saying that intimate, mutual, pleasurable sex the way God intended it should be a part of a marriage relationship, and this is a GOOD thing.

Want to read more about the “Do Not Deprive” Verses?What do the “do not deprive” verses really mean?What if women are the ones most likely to be deprived?The Great Sex Rescue goes into detail in these verses throughout the book–it’s a great resource for this!

 

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In the middle of a Christian culture that has denigrated sex and seen it as “less than”, Paul firmly says that the body is good and that sex is good within marriage, and we shouldn’t practice celibacy.

Okay, now for the most revolutionary point:

3. Paul set a brand new standard for sex: complete and utter mutuality. Women mattered!

Remember what we learned about sex in Rome yesterday: It was about power. It was mostly about men. Women were secondary.

Now let’s add to it another factor: In Roman times, men actually had full authority over their wives, to the extent that they could murder their wives if they wanted and they wouldn’t be charged with anything. They owned their wives.

This was a society in which men dominated. No one could really picture anything different.

And yet Paul walks in and presents a picture of sex that is completely and utterly mutual. In fact, women’s needs are actually mentioned first! “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife.” Imagine the impact of that! Women had needs and husbands were to fulfill them. Women did not exist to serve men; on the contrary, marriage was to be a mutual relationship where each served the other.

We’re so accustomed to thinking about sex as something men need and women don’t that we gloss right over the mutuality of these passages, as we explain in The Great Sex Rescue:

In fact, the Bible tells us that women should not be deprived. “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband” (1 Cor. 7:3, emphasis ours).

Too often, though, books portray that verse and the surrounding ones as applying only to men. Fred and Brenda Stoeker’s Every Heart Restored even says this: “Sure, men are promised regular sexual release by Scripture. But by the same token, women are promised that their husbands will treat them with honor and tenderness (1 Pet. 3:7).”

Let’s look more closely though. Notice something interesting about that passage they referred to about men’s needs? They forgot to mention that it’s directed at both spouses. If they use that verse to show women they need to give their husbands “sexual release” (i.e., orgasm), then by their own logic, they should have charged men with the same responsibility to bring their wives release too.

The Bible does not assume that one spouse will be perpetually sexually deprived by the other. No, the Bible tells us that both genders need to look out for the other, and it’s expected that women will experience pleasure too. Even “It is better to marry than to burn with passion” is addressed to “the unmarried and to widows” (1 Cor. 7:8–9). Paul assumed that women would have passions! Sex is about both of you. Both of you should give and receive; both of you should feel loved and cherished.

The Great Sex Rescue, pages 50-51

We need to stop talking about 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 as being about a man being promised sexual release, and realize that it’s about both people having their needs met!

And then Paul says something even more extraordinary.

Paul says that a wife has authority over her husband’s body–“the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.” Remember, this is a society where men had complete authority over their wives’ bodies, and Paul gives women that same authority. Well, not to kill their husbands–but he says that no one has any authority over the other that the other does not also have over them. 

I truly don’t think we get how big a thing this was. In our modern age, we read these verses and our hearts fall a little bit because we think, “great, so he owns my body and I can’t say no.” But that was not the emphasis that Paul was making! The big revolutionary thing here is that sex is mutual. Sex is for women just as much as it is for men. It is not only about the one penetrating; it is about BOTH people experiencing something intimate together, and both people matter equally.

To take it even further, this is the only place in Scripture where Paul explicitly talks about authority in marriage. And when he does so–he makes it totally mutual and equal.

In other passages he talks about the husband being the head of the wife, but in Greek there are two words that we translate “head” in English. One has a connotation of authority, and one really does not. Paul deliberately chose the one that did not.

Want to read more about what “head” means in Greek?

I’m not really the blog for that, because I’m not a Greek scholar. But I do have some posts that can help, and I’ll point you to some other resources as well!

What Does Headship Really Mean? (podcast)Our Submission Series (let’s look at what the submission passages actually mean)Marg Mowczko’s site (she is a Greek scholar, and she’s written a lot about headship and the submission passages)Cynthia Westfall’s book Paul and GenderBeth Alison Barr’s upcoming book The Making of Biblical WomanhoodPaul is walking into unhealthy relationship dynamics that are based on power, and saying, “NO!”

Instead of a power-based marriage, with one person having authority of the other, Paul presents a relationship where both people matter and where mutuality and intimacy reign. That’s the point of 1 Corinthians 7:3-5–not a command for women to submit to one-sided sexual encounters where they feel used (and if that’s you, please listen to our duty sex podcast and pick up The Great Sex Rescue!).

When we try to make marriage into a hierarchy, authority based relationship rather than a mutual, intimate one, we’re perpetuating Roman culture rather than the Bible. And I think that’s a shame, because I think we’ve missed the heart of what Paul was saying here.

So let me leave you with Jesus’ words, that I believe were central to Paul’s understanding of what the Christian life should look like:

Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Matthew 20:25-28

Exactly. Marriage is not about power or using each other.

Marriage is about a mutual serving in an intimate relationship. That’s what Paul was trying to say, and I hope that helps you to see those verses anew today–and hopefully will stop people from weaponizing them in the future!

What do you think? Did any of that surprise you? Does any of this context change how you see the verses? How have they been taught to you? 

Sex Throughout the Ages Series8 Weird Facts about Sex in Roman Times (April 6)The Significance of 1 Corinthians 6-7 in light of Roman culture (April 7)A Romp Through Medieval Times and Sex (April 12)10 Weird Pieces of Victorian Sex Advice (April 13)10 Weird Things to Know about the Kinsey Report (April 19)10 Pieces of Advice from a 1970s Sex Manual (April 20)10 Ways the Christian 1970s Culture Tried to Be Sex Positive--While Also Fighting Back against the Sexual Revolution (April 21)5 Ways Millennials Grew up More Conservative than Generation X in the Church (aka Purity Culture!) (April 26)The Contagion Theory of Sexuality--and How to Change It (April 27)A Liturgy of Lament for What We Taught our Kids (April 28)A Liturgy of Lament for the Teaching We Received about Sex and a Prayer for Healing (April 30) Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts Top 10 Ways to Get Turned On By Your Husband Again

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8 Weird Sex Facts about the Romans

How did different eras in time treat sex?

I’d like to spend April doing some romps through history looking at how we’ve seen libido, the role of sex in marriage and culture, women’s sexuality, and more. Sometimes we get to assuming that our way of thinking about sex is just “the way things are”, and just “that’s the way our bodies are made.”

But when we see from other points  in history that it actually wasn’t assumed to be that way, then we can understand how much our culture has also played a role in shaping how we see sex!

We’re going to start this series looking at sex in Roman times.

I picked that time period because that was the culture into which Paul was writing, and in which Jesus was living (though Jesus focused more on the Jewish culture of His day than the Roman side of it). That can help illuminate what Paul may have meant by different passages that he wrote about sex, too!

I asked Connor to comb through the history sites and books on hand and find out a few facts that we may not realize about how the Romans saw sex! Now, Connor wants you all to know that he’s not a historian, but he only including stuff here if he found it from multiple sources! So let’s take a look at 8 things he discovered, and then I have a big overarching thought I want to share.

But first, here are my girls in front of the colosseum several years ago!

#1. Prostitution was common

In certain periods of Roman history, visiting a prostitute was considered normative for men, even if they were married, so long as it was a legitimate establishment. Brothels would often be located near upper class residences for convenience.

#2. Prostitution shared a stigma with other professions

While prostitution was common, it was not prestigious. Being a prostitute carried a negative stigma with it, but prostitutes were not alone in this. Any profession where one made a living by using their body to entertain was in the same category as prostitution. This included stage actors and gladiators.

#3. Sex was considered one-sided

Sexual gratification was considered to be reserved for the husband in a relationship. For wives, their consolation prize was the opportunity to produce offspring. Wives were also expected to remain faithful while allowing their husbands to philander with any unmarried and agreeing women or boys they desired.

#4. Same sex intercourse was common, but not considered homosexual

The Romans did not look at people in terms of sexuality, but in terms of sexual roles. So long as a man was only ever the penetrator, and never the penetrated, he was still considered strong and masculine. But in the eyes of the Romans, if a man was on the receiving end he was adopting the role of the woman, and was reviled as effeminate.

#5. Sex was about power

Because sex was generally framed in this dynamic of dominant and submissive roles, which carried social implications and ramifications, power differentials were baked into the fabric of sexual life. A man with status had a lot of license to engage in sexual liaisons outside of his marriage with anyone who held a lower place in society. In fact it is generally the most powerful people in Roman society who have the longest list of varied exploits and specific fetishes. Even wealthy women are reported to have had sexual appetites for lower-order men like dancers and gladiators.

Our family in the stadium in Ephesus in 2012.

#6. Romans may not have been as debauched as it seems

Most of the knowledge we have about sex in Roman culture is from the viewpoint of wealthier, upper-class citizens, since they were more likely to be literate, to have the time and inclination to write, and to have other people care enough to preserve their writings. The image we sometimes get from these accounts is that everyone was having sex with everything all the time right out in the streets. But there is historical evidence suggesting that many of the common people looked down on the sexual debauchery of the higher classes, and that the non-wealthy majority had far more reserved sexual practices. Which makes a kind of sense. If extramarital sex is reserved mostly for using those far below you in social status, then people at the bottom of the hierarchy would not have the same array of sexual outlets.

#7. Rape was taken very seriously. For some.

As much as sex involved power differentials, rape was strictly prohibited, and victims (either male or female) were found blameless, and received no stigma. In fact, rape was one of the few things automatically punishable by execution, with no statute of limitations. All of this being said, of course, with one major caveat: It only applied to the rape of Roman citizens in good standing. If a slave was raped, it was charged as property damage, with reparations paid to the slave-owner.

#8. Sex toys existed

There are plenty of rumors and myths about ancient sex toys, including the idea that Cleopatra would fill a vessel with bees and use it as a vibrator, but the source of these stories are often iffy (and Rebecca says–“I seriously hope that’s not true, because that is one part of my anatomy I would not want anywhere near bees!”). With the Greco-Romans, though, there are plenty of illustrations and literary mentions of–how shall we put this?–things which mimic the male anatomy . They could be made a number of ways, including stuffed leather, stone, and even carefully shaped bread! Since the culture only conceived of sex as a penetrative act, the expectation was still that whoever assumed the female role was going to at some point need to have something penetrating them.

If we could sum up what all of this means, it would be this: In Roman times, there wasn’t an expectation that sex and intimacy would be linked. 

Sex was about power, and about animal appetites, and even about spirituality or attaining a new state of being. But it wasn’t about cementing intimacy in the way that we would think today.

It isn’t only that upper class Romans were promiscuous (we know less about the lower classes!), but that this idea of an intimate marriage is somehow missing. Marriage was a contract of convenience that allowed property rights and status, but not relationship. 

And when intimacy is divorced from sex, then ideas like power take over.

That’s a good reminder to us of the gift that we have in our heritage–that sex is an ultimate “knowing”, as it’s talked about in Genesis 4. Sure, we may have gotten that really messed up, and the Old Testament patriarchs certainly were not great examples of real intimacy. But we see in the Bible these glimpses of how things were supposed to be. 

When sex is focused on power, ugly things happen and intimacy flees. That’s a good lesson from the Romans. And tomorrow, let’s see how Paul’s words about sex, written to this culture, would have rocked them!

Does anything stand out to you? What do you think our biggest similarities are? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sex Throughout the Ages Series8 Weird Facts about Sex in Roman Times (April 6)The Significance of 1 Corinthians 6-7 in light of Roman culture (April 7)10 Weird Pieces of Victorian Sex Advice (April 12)10 Weird Things to Know about the Kinsey Report (April 13)10 Pieces of Advice from a 1970s Sex Manual (April 19)10 Ways the Christian 1970s Culture Tried to Be Sex Positive--While Also Fighting Back against the Sexual Revolution (April 20)5 Ways Millennials Grew up More Conservative than Generation X in the Church (aka Purity Culture!) (April 26)The Contagion Theory of Sexuality--and How to Change It (April 27) Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila has been married to Keith for 28 years, and happily married for 25! (It took a while to adjust). She’s also an award-winning author of 8 books, including The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. ENTJ, straight 8 FacebookTwitter Related Posts It’s RELEVANT–but It Shouldn’t Be Rocket Science! A Spotlight on Two Reviews

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