Pandemonium
discussion
Alex or Julian???
Alison wrote: "okay...someone had to start this...so i guess i will.I know the majority of people out there are probably going with Alex, and honestly, I thought I would be too, but I just finished reading Pa..."
Actually, I'm on your side on this. I mean, at first I was all like "Pfff What's this guy even doing here ?" I mean-Alex all the way.
But then I really started liking Julian. And you're right, he's naive, but strong and there's much more to him then you first think. Also he's been through so much and that really, really gets to my poor little romance-loving heart :D
Oh, and I don't think Lena has any fault there. I mean, you can't really control your feelings and she actually tried to restrain herself whenever she felt Julian getting to her, but in the end...
Atop of that, she honestly thought Alex was dead-he saw him being shot at and all bloody and stuff- and if he were he wouldn't have wanted Lena to be unhappy. Never love again or laugh again... At one point even I thought he was dead.
Honestly, I think it would've been better... Idk
I kinda hate love triangles and find it hard to pick a side but... This time I'm on Julian's side...
Sorry guys.
Dawn wrote: "Alison wrote: "okay...someone had to start this...so i guess i will.I know the majority of people out there are probably going with Alex, and honestly, I thought I would be too, but I just fini..."
Did anyone re-read Delirium recently? I admit I felt kind of bad for Julian but I just got caught up in the book. Lauren Oliver purposely wanted us to get emotional and confused. But I re-read Delirium to get Alex back fresh into my mind and now I'm once again Julian? Heck NO!!! I dunno what will happen next but I think in the end Alex and Lena will be together. Maybe Julian will meet someone new.
Jennifer wrote: "Did anyone re-read Delirium recently? I admit I felt kind of bad for Julian but I just got caught up in the book. Lauren Oliver purposely wanted us to get emotional and confused. But I re-read Deli..."I did, ( raising my hand), and now I keep flipping back and forth between both books.....Alex is SOOOOO.........much better.
I hate love triangles. I'm team Alex. She's hasn't even known Julian for very long. I will be so upset if Lena ends up with Julian or neither of them.
I'm 100% team Julian (ironic, because Alex of the Alex Rider books is one of my all time favorite characters and there's this really weird guy I know named Julian).Why? Well, first off, I felt like I didn't really know Alex all that well in Delirium. He's cute, he reads poetry... Lena didn't even know much about him when she fell in love with him. Alex liked her because she was so "awake," but I felt like Hana was pretty "awake" too, since she was jumping and high-fiving the Governor with Lena. I didn't understand their relationship that much (though it was definitely cute). Alex felt really one-dimensional to me - a very "good" character without much depth.
Julian, on the other hand... we got to watch his character grow (kinda like we did with Lena), and he had so many layers of complexity it was refreshing to read about. At first I was a little bit skeptical, but soon I was totally rooting for him to be with Lena. I loved him.
I saw the ending coming from a mile away, but the whole time I was hoping it wouldn't end like that. No such luck. I was actually hoping Alex was really dead, because then it would make the Delirium trilogy unique and more real - people die, and you move on. Nope. 'Course Alex is still alive.
I'm rooting for Julian all the way, but I feel, sadly, that Lauren Oliver is going to have Lena end up with Alex. After all, it's usually the first love that is chosen in books, even if it's not plausible.
I get the feeling LO's going to kill one boy or the other off in Requiem (the title makes me think so). Before I reached the end of Pandemonium, I was hoping the series would not be a love triangle but instead a story of loss and moving on, and the requiem would be for Alex. So now I don't know how she's planning to end the series and the love triangle, but I have my hunches.
Julian FTW!
Alex! I do get what you guys are saying about Julian but Alex was there from the start of this and taught her alot. Where would she be if it weren't for him? I don't think Lena got over him so quickly and its like she needed someone to help her move on and Julian was there so... yeah. I think the love between Alex and Lena is stronger b/c he got shot and everything when they were trying to cross the fence and he still wanted her to keep going and he would have died for her.
Lots of comments of people ending up with their first loves as unrealistic, I 'm not so sure, I believe that all depends on where you r from, who you r, am and your life experiences. Lots of people end up with their first loves.
I go for Alex!! For me, Julian-Lena relationship was like forced. It's like they fell in love with each other because they have no choice (Lena- hurting, thinking Alex was dead and Julian- saying "what does it feel like?" "the deliria" "what does it feel like to be infected?" "I want to know" "I want to know with you" - he just sounds curious to me, not in love).
"I still want Alex for Lena!!" Those were the first intelligible words I said after screaming when i finished the book. Alex is a bit scary in the ending though. It's like he was full of anger, jealousy? hatred? i don't know. But the fact that he said "don't believe her" when Lena promised staying together with Julian makes me think he will fight to get Lena back, or maybe he is angry with Lena for loving someone else that he might do something horrible to Julian or Lena haha I don't know!.
I must admit that if Alex and Lena ended up together, it will be a very long, and a very hard process with Julian present, and with Lena changed. But what can I do? I WANT ALEX for Lena!!! I hope Julian finds another one in the wilds - that's the best I can wish for him.
First I hate the fact that this is even a situation... I hate that there is a love triangle..Why couldn't it be just one great romance between two people not freaking three...I get the moving on part, if we had proof Alex was dead.. But we had none, we just had the belief.. Since there is a love triangle now.. I am rooting for Alex..I felt more of a connection to him..Julian to me just felt like friend material..Someone who needed help..
Am I the only one who's sick of love triangles? I loved this book - liked it even better than Delirium - but I am so sick of love triangles!
Sunshinemommy23 wrote: "Am I the only one who's sick of love triangles? I loved this book - liked it even better than Delirium - but I am so sick of love triangles!"I agree. I could've dealt with anything and everything because it was an amazing book, even better than Delirium.
But love triangles... Urghhhh bdbsfvhsgfd
I just hate them so much.
As I as I said I only like love triangles when I can flip to the last page of the last book to see who gets who! :)
If you ever really find out ....
I LOVE Alex, & I felt I connected with him more than I did with Julian. What I hate though is that I have my suspicions that this isn't going to be one of "those" stories where a love triangle ensues & the protagonist ends up picking her first love...Alex is going to have changed. He will be a different person than the one Lena fell in love with. And while she struggles between the two, she will probably eventually end up with stupid Julian >.>I think in the end she & Alex will end in amicable terms (he will always be the guy who showed her freedom, gave her the chance for a new way of life & Taught her that it is ok to love) but in the end she wont pick him. She will always be greatful & he was once her first love, but Julian will probably be her "true love". Kind of like it happens in real life.
I have a feeling Lauren Oliver won't follow the same plot line as other authors. & due to her being an individual, my heart will break into a million pieces because of this. I was pissed at the ending of this book, because I think this is the possibility of the next book. I think Lauren Oliver is brilliant, & I think it's cool if she decides to change it up a bit & let the second guy get the girl, but she is unbelievably cruel for giving us perfect Alex only to have him change & not even get the girl in the end! Specially after everything he went through for her!
This is my prediction for the next book anyways.
As for Julian: he's a nice kid and all, but he just didnt do it for me. He was just "ok". I remember thinking Tack was probably going to be the new love interest (I thought she might fall for someone in the wilds) & was really dissapointed when I got Julian instead of him. Tack, with his very limited appearance throughout the book, got my heart fluttering more than Julian
-_- not once did he get my heart racing or smiling like Alex (or Tack xP)
C'est la vie.
I just hope Mrs.Oliver proves me wrong & have Alex be the same guy we all knew & love (& who Lena ends up with)!!
Ladies, for all the ideas we r coming up with, authors write books to sell, so they can get a paycheck just like the rest of us. The ending of Pandemonium was done so we WILL buy her next book. She very well end the book with Alex and Lena together. Or not.
She could also decide to strength it all out to a 4th book, and we would buy it too.
Courtney wrote: "True, Mary. But what's your point? We're just discussing what we'd prefer and what we think will happen."Nothing actually, just more ideas
Courtney wrote: "Oh, all right.I think she's going to stick with just the three books. But four would be cool if it became necessary. We wouldn't want a rushed ending."
Lol...I am kind depressed about capitalistic money people and the economy right now so maybe that is where that has all come from......:/
Mary wrote: "She could also decide to strength it all out to a 4th book, and we would buy it too."I almost never buy the books. I check them out from the library. As soon as they order the book I want to read, I put a hold on it. It worked for me - I had the book Friday (3/2)
Okay, I'm going with Julian. Yea, yea I know Alex was Lena's first love, but still, I thought it would have been a bit boring if the whole book revolved around her moping. So it's either grieve or move on. She truly believed Alex was dead.But I will say I didn't like Julian at first. He was a total snob. After he found out the truth about Lena he got a lot better. They had to rely on each other to survive, which forms a bond.(That's happened in MANY books I've read.) Julian grew on me. And some of you say Julian was weak? Ha, that's a laugh. (Spoiler Alert) When he was captured at the end, he knew what was going to happen to him. He wasn't going to fight when he was going to be executed because he knew it wasn't going to do any good, so he at least he would still have his dignity when he was gonna die.
And that ending- Wow! I saw coming a mile away. That's gonna be an awkward conversation starting in the next book if they pick up right where Pandemonium left off. I don't think Lena has anything to feel bad about. She thought Alex died. She grieved and then moved on. I mean really, if Alex really died, do you think he would have wanted Lena to sad for the rest of her life? I don't think so. So that's why I'm going with Julian. I thought he was really good character. We know more about him than we do about Alex. The only things I can recall about Alex were he had auburn hair, amber eyes, no parents and he liked poetry. (That's just off the top of my head) Julian told Lena a lot about his life. It even says in the book that Lena felt more comfortable around Julian than she did around Alex.
zara wrote: "I don't think alex is the same alex Lena fell in love with. I don't what they did to him but in that last scene, he seemed to hate lena and love."Although i hate to admit i agree with you. He probably suffered too much ( for Lena) and then he finds out she's with another guy? I absolutley love Alex. I wished they would stay together but i'm pretty sure they won't. I just don't want to get my hopes up ); Alex showed her what love truly is. He saved her life without a 2nd thought. She was happy! Ugh
Carolyn wrote: "I hate love triangles and for some reason I can never ever let myself root for the 2nd boy that comes into the picture. Even if I actually like the new boy better it doesn't change my feelings. The..."Carolyn wrote: "I hate love triangles and for some reason I can never ever let myself root for the 2nd boy that comes into the picture. Even if I actually like the new boy better it doesn't change my feelings. The..."
Lol i know! That's why i don't want to get my hopes up. I really love Alex. Julian is an okay guy but he could never compare to Alex. But i just have a feeling Lena won't choose Alex. As much as it pains me to say. I hope that i'm wrong though!
Hey you guys i was thinking what about Hana? I have a feeling she's going to end up in Requiem. And iif she does maybe just maybe she falls for Julian and Julian starts to fall for her too as he realizes that Lena still loves Alex! Lol as unlikely as it seems i hope so becuase i want Alex and Lena together!!e
Daisy wrote: "Hey you guys i was thinking what about Hana? I have a feeling she's going to end up in Requiem. And iif she does maybe just maybe she falls for Julian and Julian starts to fall for her too as he re..."OH MY GOSH!! you are brilliant!!! that is an awesome idea !!!! I haven't heard anyone say anything like that yet!!! I sure hope you are right because that would create a little friendly tension but we would all end up happy if Lena picks Alex and Julian gets someone ie Hana!!! AWESOME IDEA !!
Emily wrote: "Daisy wrote: "Hey you guys i was thinking what about Hana? I have a feeling she's going to end up in Requiem. And iif she does maybe just maybe she falls for Julian and Julian starts to fall for he..."Haha i know! But we have to wait a whole year to find out!!! Ugh. Hopefully Alex and Lena and Julian and Hana do stay together but i just don't want to get my hopes up. it just seems like too much of a happy ending.
i think as far as hana is concerned, karma is not going to be kind...(view spoiler) i wouldn't be surprised if we see her again, i just don't think she deserves a guy like julian...
Alison wrote: "i think as far as hana is concerned, karma is not going to be kind...she turned lena and alex in...she might have been hurt or scared when she did it and maybe she tried to right the wrong by leavi..."Just wondering ... what makes you think Hana turned Lena in?
have you read lauren's oliver novella "Hana"...the way it's written it leads you to believe she did...and after i read delirium, i had a feeling it was her. i started a thread sometime last year with some of the things i picked up on...it's under the delirium discussions i think...
Alison wrote: "have you read lauren's oliver novella "Hana"...the way it's written it leads you to believe she did...and after i read delirium, i had a feeling it was her. i started a thread sometime last year w..."Alison wrote: "have you read lauren's oliver novella "Hana"...the way it's written it leads you to believe she did...and after i read delirium, i had a feeling it was her. i started a thread sometime last year w..."
Hmmm interesting. Well if that's true then there goes my last hope of a happy ending lol and if she did turn them in WHAT A BITCH! Sorry lol ahhh all this is killing me i swear! I really hope you're wrong though i like Hana. Well sort of.
Ohhh! (lightbulb) if what you say is true about Hana turning them in maybe she was jealous! You know of Alex and Lena. Maybe she wanted what they had. Maybe she likes Alex and in Requiem instead of her and Julian it's her and Alex since maybe Alex is hurt that Lena already tried to move on with Julian and tries to forget about Lena with Hana. But now that i think about it sounds stupid lol i'm just thinking about stuff till the 2013 comes! Lol
read the novella...it's only digital, it's like $3 on amazon...you'll get a clearer picture, and i won't spoil/misinterpret it...hana's not entirely bad, but what she did is as close to unforgivable as it gets...i mean they almost died and it's a miracle they didn't...
Im gonna say something that people WILL be pissed about but I wanted Alex to stay dead. The whole point of Delirium is to illustrate what it means to LOVE. Alex loved Lena so much that he sacrificed himself so she could live, so she could love, and now he comes back after being imprisoned for what 6 months and is all pissy "dont believe her" wounded boy? Nope. not okay. Basically Alex being alive just signed Julian's death certifiate (anybody seen a little movie called Pearl Harbor??). I love Alex, I do, of course in a perfect world I would want them to be together but come ON. Im just annoyed, I cant believe this happened on the last page. grr.
Hi there! I've just finished Pandemonium and I'm eager to share my opinion about the love triangle. It reminds me of the Hunger games series. There is a boy like Alex- first love, then another one that is like Julian who learns how to love and in the end the main character ends up with the second guy because the first one has changed not in the good way. Although I love Alex, I'm pretty sure that Lena will end up with Julian. Personally, I like them both. It won't matter which one she will choose. As I see it, only the good side of the boys was shown in the first two books and for the final book I see two possible scenarios - 1. one of them would make the ultimate sacrifice for Lena and he would die or 2. one of them would show his bad side and she would pick the good one(Julian I guess). I can't wait to see how the series ends:)))
I found myself pissed at Julian during the majority of the book.I was just like "don't be a whore, Lena. It's only been 6 months."
I was screaming at my book, guys.
Alex all the way.
Even though he's not going to be the same Alex Lena fell in love with.
Jade wrote: "I found myself pissed at Julian during the majority of the book.I was just like "don't be a whore, Lena. It's only been 6 months."
I was screaming at my book, guys.
Alex all the way.
Even though h..."
I completely agree with you! Except the first word that came to my mind was slut ... basically the same thing though lol and I hated Julian front the start !!
Alex, i don't really feel like Julian actually loved her he just seemed fascinated by the fact that she's an uncured female his age where as Alex has met plenty of girls but he really only loves Lena.
Jade wrote: "I found myself pissed at Julian during the majority of the book.I was just like "don't be a whore, Lena. It's only been 6 months."
I was screaming at my book, guys.
Alex all the way.
Even though h..."
Lol the words that came out of my mouth throught the whole book were " NOOO LENA YOU LOVE ALEX!!! YOU CANT DO THIS TO HIM! Not with this dipshit" although i have to admit Julian aint that bad
Alex!!! I don't feel Julian and Lena's love. I didn't fall for Julian at all. He's a nice guy and all, and similar to Lena because they both learned to love and hate the cure, but I don't know, there's something in me that can't stand the idea of Lena and Julian being together. The thing is, I like Alex better, and prefer his happiness. I don't want to see him suffer, I need him to be happy. He trully loves Lena, he was willling to die for her! he deserves to be hapy. Of course he's different now. Imagine almost dying, spending a whole year rotting in prison and then escaping just to find the girl you love, the reason you went through all of that,kissing and claiming her love to another guy, when she used to say the same thing to you!He has reasons to be bitter. And I can't satnd to see him like that, when he used to practically have a permanent smile on his face.
ALEX for sure. He's the one who made her open her eyes. He's her first and real love. And she wouldn't have loved Julian if Alex had been around.
I hope for Alex but it's hard to tell with how it ended. We have no idea what is going on with Alex. I'm thinking maybe he was just so hurt seeing Lena with Julian. I think he was looking for her and then to finally find her, but with someone else has got to be horrible if you were that in love. I could be way off-guess we will have to see. Maybe hes has changed, like someone else said in this discussion. I was kind of mad at Lena for falling for Julian so fast, but I have to remember hom much she probably needed someone to feel love from... I mean how lonely out in the Wilds, etc. thinking of what she had with Alex. So, I guess my hope is for Alex and Lena....not Julian.
I am SO Torn!! After Reading Pandemonium, I want to really root for Julian, because I liked him in this book. Although, I was secretly pining for Alex all the way through, but since the books were so far apart I missed Alex's connection. In Short, I think If I went back and read Delirium again I would Be Team Alex Hands Down, but for now I can't choose.
Han wrote: "I'm 100% team Julian (ironic, because Alex of the Alex Rider books is one of my all time favorite characters and there's this really weird guy I know named Julian).Why? Well, first off, I felt li..." Very eloquent thoughts, I too really wanted to believe that Oliver would go for the more real aspect and keep Alex dead, even though my heart broke in a million pieces when he died. I mean "Before I Fall" got to have a "real" ending so I expected more...but all that to say she may suprised us all with the next installment, but I am confident that ONE of the boys will die...dang you book come out already!
Having re-read Delirium and then going into Pandemonium, I would prefer to see Lena with Alex. Although, I think she will ultimately decide on Julian. I don't blame Lena for moving on, as she clearly believed that Alex was dead but while I like Julian as a character, for me, I couldn't connect to him like I did with Alex.
At the end of Pandemonium, we can see that Alex has changed. I think that his reaction/demeanour is understandable. Being locked up in the Crypts can't be good for your psyche. Based on what we got from Raven:
'He hasn't said much, hasn't even given his name. I'm not sure what they did to him up there, but-'
they must have done something terrible to him, like Zara mentioned earlier in the thread, for him to hate Lena and love. Plus, seeing Lena with Julian wouldn't have helped matters. Having said this, I do not think Alex is cured.
As for the 'Don't believe her.' I believe this is in reference to when Lena broke her promise to Alex at the end of Delirium when she 'looks back'.
Requiem could indicate towards a death in the next book; maybe Julian because of his health issues. It could also mean the deaths of past lives. Both Alex and Lena have changed and evolved over the last six months, who they are now may not be enough as it was for them back then, which is why I think Lena will choose Julian in the end.
i'm so torn! i just finished pandemonium, and i don't know who's team to be on! i really don't want to be a drifter here, so maybe i'll think about it some more then decide a team :)
Team Alex all the way! I think the entire relationship of Lena and Julian was because firstly, she was lonely and she missed Alex. But I think the biggest thing was that Julian reminded Lena of herself. I think that is the only reason why she felt so "comfortable" around him (and even more so than Alex). The roles were sort of reversed in a way that Lena now assumed the position of Alex, and Julian was Lena. Did anyone else get that parallel as well?
Alex's reaction, was understandable, considering what he had gone through in the crypts only to find that Lena had moved on. I would be upset too. I felt that Lena needed someone to fill that hole of Alex and Julian happened to be there.
I hope that she ends up with Alex in the end.
Rajshree wrote: "I do love Julian but Alex was the first. I loved him ever since he came up on the observation deck, and i'll always pick him."Agree! Alex is the best of the best.
i feel like alex is in the past now. its been so long, their totally different people. and its not like alex expected her to wait forever for him? i mean dont get me wrong, delirium was incredible because of this mysterious alex, but julian and her have gone thru so much together its hard to say she can put that all in the past..
Isabella wrote: "Alex!!! I don't hate Julian or anything but... Alex!"I so a agree I'm 100% behind Alex i like Julian and all but Alex is a better person for Lena. Julian is to "safe". I picture him as a libraran and that is so not what Lena needs.....
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Anyways I'm team Alex and if Len..."
Yep!!!! Poor Alex he must be mad mad mad ...