Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus discussion
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What a person can’t be both? I am.
But then some people might claim I’m not a person.
Bwhahahahaha
It is a struggle, but with love and work, I believe the two communities can come together.Nowadays, my wife can name all the Doctors and I'm a huge Deep Space Nine fan.
It's an inspirational story for the ages.
Deep Space Nine RULES! My favorite of the Treks. No question.
Although I am enjoying Discovery quite a bit (and I haven’t seen Picard yet).
Can she name all the Doctors in order? 😼
I love original Trek, but DS9 is the best written Trek series.Haven't seen any of the new stuff. The Abrams movies kind of soured us on new trek.
Those movies are awful. They illustrate Abrams’ complete lack of understanding of the “Trek philosophy” and his paint-by-numbers approach to filmmaking. His Star Wars films are just as uninspired and unimaginative. He’s not as incompetent as Zack Snyder, but it’s a close race. But Discovery, while the pacing of the seasons can be a bit uneven, the characters are interesting and very, pardon the pun, engaging.
And Wilson Cruz is a doctor in Discovery and he’s great eye candy. That never hurts. And Doug Jones is absolutely amazing, as he always is. I got to interview him for a pod cast I used to do, he’s a lovely person and really dedicated to his work. Certainly must be to continually embrace those long hours of prosthetics and makeup in role after role. But everyone really delivers some great performances.
Mod
Haven't seen any of the new stuff. The Abrams movies kind of soured us on new trek."
The first time I watched the ST Movie by Abrams I was very depressed and unhappy, mostly because I couldn't understand just what the heck was going on. Later, after talking to others about it, I realized that the best way to approach these movies is to think of them as alternate universe stories where Vulcan is destroyed (an idea I found very distressing), or even as fanfic with no bearing on actual, shudders, canon.
Rick wrote: "I’m almost embarrassed to say that the only episode novelization I’ve read is Doctor Who and the Day of the Daleks. I finished on my 19th birthday. This was only shortly after I’d sta..."By coincidence Day of the Daleks was the first novelisation I got and read as well. It's pretty good for the time I read it (maybe age 9 or 10), and when I eventually got to see the TV version on video I was shocked at how poor it was compared to the book (although I don't mind it now lol). Same for the Five Doctors - I had this epic story visualised from reading the book that the TV version could never live up to.
I have all 150+ books in the collection. I had 80% anyway then filled the gaps from eBay about 15 years ago. The Wheel in Space cost me £20, but its going for around £80-100 now!
The Abrams Star Trek can only exist as a weirdly twisted mirror universe kind of thing.
Abrams Trek was announced as 'not your father's Trek!!!', but is completely reliant on you having watched your father's Trek. The first movie does not work unless you already know the tropes and history of star trek.
Shame, as there's some great casting (Karl Urban!!!) but the writing is a mess.
I've heard some good things about discovery, but every bad review makes me feel it's making the same mistakes as Abrams, so I'll stick to the comics and maybe finally buying the cartoon on DVD.
Richie wrote: "Rick wrote: "I’m almost embarrassed to say that the only episode novelization I’ve read is Doctor Who and the Day of the Daleks. I finished on my 19th birthday. This was only shortly ..."I like Day until the end.
The attacking Daleks are obviously have so much trouble navigating a grassy lawn that it loses some menace.
5 Doctors works for me, as it actually feels like there's dozens of Cybermen wandering around.
Travis wrote: "Abrams Trek was announced as 'not your father's Trek!!!', but is completely reliant on you having watched your father's Trek. The first movie does not work unless you already know the tropes and h..."
True, if you don’t know what to expect Abrams’ first Trek film is a just a bland space action film. But he was also just borrowing the notion from Star Trek VI which effectively blew up Kronus (sp?) making all the fans go “But the Klingons are ok in Next Generation” this trying to say “we’ve got the franchise, and can mess with it how we like; just because you know the future, don’t think you know everything” to the fans. Abrams blew up Vulcan to do effectively the same thing. But more importantly, for me at least, he illustrated perfectly how the films are all basically not about Star Trek being Star Trek, but about making Star Trek into Star Wars. This has been going on since Star Trek II turned it’s back on the TV franchise and embraced Star Wars. But getting back to Abrams and his paint-by-numbers approach to cinema, all he does is check off the boxes of what he thinks everyone wants in a film. He borrows scenes from the earlier films and reworks them to fit in a messy script that doesn’t really make sense. Same thing he does with Star Wars.
There is some validity in the problems that Discovery has made. Yes, they’re inconsistent with the appearance of the original Trek, even though they’re effectively set in the same time period (just a few years earlier). And they are undermining the utopian concepts of that era as well. But the characters are interesting and the stories are fun. There are problems, yes. But I am enjoying it. To be honest it can be uneven, but it’s a fun ride. The animated series? From the 70s? If you’ve not seen it, it’s just a kids show. It fun once, but doesn’t really add anything. There are a couple nice episodes, but even those aren’t that great. And the cringe worthy episodes are all over the place.
As I’m thumbing these posts, I’m beginning to feel like Chibnall is doing what new Trek is doing: deconstructing the franchise to remake it and take it in new directions. Like DS9, that broke the formula of Star Trek and Next Generation by forcing the concept into a new direction because of structural changes, Chibnall is forcing new Who to re-examine itself by stripping it down and rebuilding from a fresh foundational core. Will it work? Only the future will tell us.
I actually have few complaints with Abrams Star Wars.It's always been pulpy, nostalgic space opera, and his style works.
Despite Lucas' rambling philosophical speeches, it ain't that deep.
Plus, you can feel Abrams has a fondness for Star Wars and gets it.
Star Trek feels like the job he took because he couldn't get Star Wars, especially judging by how fast he bailed on Trek when he was offered SW.
All the trailers for Discovery have the same vibe to me. It comes across as people who think Abrams version is the good one or who only know Trek from the cultural cliches and skimming the wikipedia page.
Some good casting, but there's no feeling that any love or research went into the writing,
I'll probably check it all out someday, but I feel no sense of urgency.
I keep forgetting Torchwood was a thing.BF announces new stories and I go 'Oh, that'.
Show was incredibly unevenly written and ended badly, but I don't hate it, but I also never er feel an urge to ever see.hear/read it again.
As a Whovian and Barrowman fan, I feel slightly bad about it but it fades quickly.
Mod
BF announces new stories and I go 'Oh, that'.
Show was incredibly unevenly written and ended badly, but I don't hate it, but I also never er feel an urge to ever see.hear/read it again.
As a Whovian and Barrowman fan, I feel slightly bad about it but it fades quickly."
While I do get his being far more serious and unhappy in Torchwood, and why, I felt like the Jack we know from Doctor Who and the Jack from Torchwood are two different characters played by the same actor. He's less effusive and fun, less joyful, less, well, Jack Harkness. The producers even toned down his sexuality from omni/pansexual to bisexual (nothing wrong with being bi, I just didn't get why they toned that part of Jack's personality). Yet, when he shows up on DW, it's the original character most of us fell in love with at the beginning (except the parts where Torchwood is involved).
Personally, I still think the last two seasons of X-Files (considered the worst seasons by a lot of fans) are still superior to the first 2 series of Torchwood. Series 3 is actually the best part of the whole, but that's just me.
I loved Torchwood. Totally. All of it. And yes there was character alterations between how Barrowman presented the character, but I found Torchwood more daring, more confrontational and risqué, while Doctor Who’s version was more fluffy and boyishly lovable. The difference being that Doctor Who is aimed at families and Torchwood at adults. And yes. Series 3 was the best. But it was all good for me.
Abrams? Not sure if I should just let this drop. Probably should. I really see very little creativity in how he approaches filmmaking. He’s all - by the numbers and play it safe, just give the fans what they want. I got repeatedly bored during episode 7, during the chase through the crash ship on the desert planet - god I can’t even remember all the times - it was just so uninspired and intentional in everything it presented. And episode 9 was even worse. I enjoyed episode 8 a bit more as I felt they were trying to mix things up and take a new perspective on some things. But 7 & 9 were as poorly written and developed (and filmed) as episode 1. While in the theater with episode 7, I was actively trying to refocus and push my incredulous disappointment aside until the scene when Han Solo confronts his son over the yawning abyss. Seriously? Lifted right out of episode 5 and done poorly at that. Father-son confrontation over yawning abyss check. Chasing spaceships racing inside another spaceship check. Spaceship dogfight with big looney loops check. Desert world check. It just went on and on. Fondness for the material? I’d say slavish fanboy would be more accurate. After what he’s done to Star Trek and Star Wars I will NEVER pay to see another film by that creep again. He’s as bad a director as William Shatner. Nuff said.
Rick wrote: "I loved Torchwood. Totally. All of it. And yes there was character alterations between how Barrowman presented the character, but I found Torchwood more daring, more confrontational and risqué, whi..."Torchwood had potential, and there are moments I like, but was too caught up in 'We can show blood, sex and swearing! We're serious and adult!' and that got in the way of the scripts more then it ever helped.
and it really seemed to try really hard to make you forget it had any connection to Doctor Who.
Plus, Gwen is a magical girl and I pretty much hated her by the end of the series.
Rick wrote: "Abrams? Not sure if I should just let this drop. Probably should. I really see very little creativity in how he approaches filmmaking. He’s all - by the numbers and play it safe, just give the fa..."
We can agree to disagree. Not a problem.
My issues with episode 9 is Abrams actually being forced to deal with some of the plot threads he came up with, that he thought somebody else would fix.
He loves his mystery boxes, but rarely has to solve them. That's somebody else's problem.
He's also not good at endings and Disney panicking after Last Jedi, meant he was stuck dealing with both.
Lori S. wrote: "Travis wrote: I keep forgetting Torchwood was a thing.BF announces new stories and I go 'Oh, that'.
Show was incredibly unevenly written and ended badly, but I don't hate it, but I also never er ..."
Yeah, mopey Jack is not my favorite.
So, got myself a britbox subscription for Father's day and holy mackerel, Power of the Daleks is amazing!!!Troughton is so good and it is not only one of the best fist appearance of a new Doctor stories, but also one of the best Dalek stories!
I was worried it wouldn't live up to the hype, but it turned out to be so much better then I ever expected.
Unfortunately, I've seen just about everything thing they offer for the 1st and 2nd Doctors.
So, on to finishing the Pertwee era!
I loved Power of the Daleks as well. Did they offer it in color or Black & White? The DVD has both. I prefer the b&w version.
I watched the B+W animated version.BritBox also has the wheel in space, but it's the tele-snap version that uses all the stills, and not a fan.
Maybe after I finish the Pertwee era.
Halfway through Mind of Evil.Man, I would watch a 12 parter of Pertwee and the Delgado Master just sitting in a room, trying out snark each other.
Pertwee is not my fave Doctor, but the minute he and Delgado get together, I'm unspeakable happy.
Not to mention, always good to see UNIT in action.
Yeah Mind of Evil is a good one. Probably one of Pertwee best. I enjoyed the britbox version of Wheel in Space, I do hope they animate though.
I'd never seen it before and it was a lot of fun.Would love them to add all the animated restorations to brit box.
I'm going to finish the Pertwee era and then will probably give it a try.
Decided to use some of my extra cash to recreate the mug of sonic screw drivers from Capaldi's desk in his last season...Did not realize how many they made, I think they have all the versions out there, and a couple of them get pricey.
But, I have a new obsession, can't stop now!
Then I have to decide what kind of mug I want to keep them in.
Travis wrote: "... Then I have to decide what kind of mug I want to keep them in."😹😹😹 You should put them in a TARDIS mug, those are bigger on the inside. 😼
I have this great, old style tea cup and saucer that I thought would work, until I realized if I want the full set, there are 11 screwdrivers.Gonna have to upgrade to one of my oversized coffee mugs.
Pretty sure I must have at least one Who mug...if not, I know what's going on my amazon wish list!
Finished Claws of Axos.Cripes, Delgado is just the best Master!
So, good. I want solo stories starring him.
Seeing him interacting with the Brig, I want a series where he was the one exiled to Earth and becomes UNITs science advisor, while he schemes to either escape Earth or try and conquer it.
Oh yeah, the story itself is pretty good.
I generally think the longer stories feel padded, but this one, at 4 episodes felt almost rushed.
It needed one more episode to give the plot threads room to breathe.
No argument from me with how great Delgado is as the Master. And you’re proposal for a “mirror universe” sounds much better than Inferno. 😹
BF did a short series of alternate takes on the Doctor. I didn't get the chance to listen to them, but they planted the 'what if...?' seed in my brain.
Plus, every time I see a Delgado Master story ( and I'm pretty sure this was the last one for me, as I've seen all the others) he's so good, you almost consider him a member of the supporting cast.
He really was a regular cast member at first as he kept popping up all the time. Wasn’t he in every arc that first season he’s in?
In terms of the sonic screwdrivers, trowels and lipsticks - personally my favorite is the Sonic Sunglasses for 12. I have Funko Pop of 12 with his guitar and sonic sunglasses that a friend got got me. It’s awesome! I LOVE 12, he just had crappy stories.
Rick wrote: "He really was a regular cast member at first as he kept popping up all the time. Wasn’t he in every arc that first season he’s in?"I think his first season, the Master is in every story, then in the following season, he's in just a couple.
Part of that was Delgado's death, but I think the writers realized they went too far and needed to course correct.
Rick wrote: "In terms of the sonic screwdrivers, trowels and lipsticks - personally my favorite is the Sonic Sunglasses for 12. I have Funko Pop of 12 with his guitar and sonic sunglasses that a friend got got ..."I have a 12 funko from his first season and he's holding a spoon.
and sorry to say, I hate those sunglasses with a white hot passion.
The true hero of 12's run is the viking in 'The girl who died' that takes the sunglasses and snaps them in half.Told my daughter I wanted to cosplay as him and carry around a big bag of sunglasses that I would break.
Started the Mutants. Second to last Pertwee I need to watch.It's okay, bit heavy handed with the message...holy moley, Geoffrey Palmer!!!
Mod
It's okay, bit heavy handed with the message...holy moley, Geoffrey Palmer!!!"
The Mutants is one of my favorite Pertwee stories. For once the running around has some meaning to it and the running joke about the Third Doctor's attempt to pass the Time Lord's message is actually on the funny side for a change.
I was disappointed by the Target Novel on this one, it doesn't have the quote the Third Doctor spouts when he's trying to fix the weather device:
DOCTOR: Tut, tut, tut. The slightest accident in this stage of the proceedings and we'd all reverse instantly into antimatter. Blasted out to the other side of the universe, as a flash of electromagnetic radiation. We'll all become unpeople, undoing unthings untogether. Fascinating.
http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/9-...
It is a pretty solid story.I'm about halfway through.
Like any Pertwee space story, it establishes a bit of world building where you are constantly thinking "Why hasn't BF turned this into a spin off?
I was just distracted by Geoffrey Palmer showing up.
Wheel in space: Going to try a tele snap version, as I'm running out of Troughton/Pertwee stories on britbox.Not bad, but not loving it. Helps that it's an interesting first episode.
Did some research and discovered there are two actual episodes in Wheel in Space and the other 4 are most likely all tele snaps.Reviewers complained about how slow episode one was, but I liked it. Fun to see #2 and Jamie on their own and liked the design of the robot.
Yeah, the 2 surviving episodes of Wheel in Space are included in the Patrick Troughton Lost in Time DVD collection. I’ve also seen the audio version included on Britbox. It’s got some good sequences, but the Cybermen plot makes no sense (but then do they ever make sense).
I feel bad grumbling, because I really like this story. It ticks so many of my boxes: Troughton's Doctor, Jamie and Zoe are one of my favorite companion duos, old school cybermen and a base under siege.But, the tele snaps are just distracting. Wish it was animated.
No argument from me. I’d love to see it fully animated.
In a perfect world, they find all the footage and we get to watch the Celestial Toymaker, the Faceless ones and Marco Polo in their full glory.But, if not, the animated stuff has been a worthy substitute and I hope they have enough available audio and money to animate all the lost stuff.
Watching Wheel in space, I now want a BF series, where Zoe is returned there by the Time Lords after War Games and it becomes a sort of DS9 in the whoniverse.We could have the actress play her actual age and make her the base controller.
Doctor Who: The Library of Carsus
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We're a mixed couple.
She's a Trekkie and I'm a Whovian.
And somehow, we've made it work.