The House of Hades
discussion
Am I the only one who hates Annabeth?
Chelsea wrote: "@Brown - Out of curiosity, are there any books with well-written romance that you like besides Harry Potter?"
Chelsea,
It's hard to think of any specific ones right now.
I just know that in the majority of books, I don't like it, because I find that the "love" isn't real love at all. It's just a big clown show about drama and being "cute" and holding hands, etc.
I think a good relationship would be two characters who have:
1. proved that they know and care about each other as people and not just a "significant other," that they think is cute.
2. Don't act like the world revolves around the romantic side of their relationship when they do decide to be committed to each other.
3. have good, unselfish reasons for being in relationship, such as realistically wanting to get married to that person. Not just to do "fun" things like hold hands and act "cute."
4. Don't just shake their heads and chuckle at each other all day, and actually interact like humans.
Chelsea,
It's hard to think of any specific ones right now.
I just know that in the majority of books, I don't like it, because I find that the "love" isn't real love at all. It's just a big clown show about drama and being "cute" and holding hands, etc.
I think a good relationship would be two characters who have:
1. proved that they know and care about each other as people and not just a "significant other," that they think is cute.
2. Don't act like the world revolves around the romantic side of their relationship when they do decide to be committed to each other.
3. have good, unselfish reasons for being in relationship, such as realistically wanting to get married to that person. Not just to do "fun" things like hold hands and act "cute."
4. Don't just shake their heads and chuckle at each other all day, and actually interact like humans.
But Elsa was only so gloomy because they wanted people to think Anna was so great and funny.
I didn't really like Anna, and wasn't really impressed with her either. Everything she did seemed so contrived and insincere (she reminded me of teenage girls I know who think they're so cute and funny, but just act that way on purpose for attention). It was like the movie was catering to those people's fake images of themselves, and it was never good in the first place. Just dumb how they think you fall for it and are going to be so impressed with them.
Adding Elsa was kind of like a slap in the face. Not only do they think they're so random and funny, but that everyone else thinks they're the "weird, funny one" and they're supposed to be "mature and responsible" (aka boring). It's using others to compliment themselves, Ugh
Not that Elsa didn't have other traits like you pointed out, but in that sense I thought she was rather cheap.
I didn't really like Anna, and wasn't really impressed with her either. Everything she did seemed so contrived and insincere (she reminded me of teenage girls I know who think they're so cute and funny, but just act that way on purpose for attention). It was like the movie was catering to those people's fake images of themselves, and it was never good in the first place. Just dumb how they think you fall for it and are going to be so impressed with them.
Adding Elsa was kind of like a slap in the face. Not only do they think they're so random and funny, but that everyone else thinks they're the "weird, funny one" and they're supposed to be "mature and responsible" (aka boring). It's using others to compliment themselves, Ugh
Not that Elsa didn't have other traits like you pointed out, but in that sense I thought she was rather cheap.
Annabeth is my favorite character. HOW COULD YOU HATE HER?
Chelsea wrote: "@Brown
I see your point.
The two siblings have different personalities. I thought Elsa was more interesting than Anna due to having powers, having to conceal them, inability to control them, etc...."
Yeah, me and my sister were just talking about how it would have been funny if Elsa and Anna teamed up more, and both made more jokes together instead of trying too hard to make everyone impressed by Anna.
Like what if they always made fun of that duke and drew pictures of him together? And did more funny things that sisters do together. xP
Idk just my opinion.
I see your point.
The two siblings have different personalities. I thought Elsa was more interesting than Anna due to having powers, having to conceal them, inability to control them, etc...."
Yeah, me and my sister were just talking about how it would have been funny if Elsa and Anna teamed up more, and both made more jokes together instead of trying too hard to make everyone impressed by Anna.
Like what if they always made fun of that duke and drew pictures of him together? And did more funny things that sisters do together. xP
Idk just my opinion.
Annabeth might seem bossy and stupid to some people, but she has a good heart,is smart, and means well. People need to stop making mountains out of mole hills
Lucia wrote: "Annabeth might seem bossy and stupid to some people, but she has a good heart,is smart, and means well. People need to stop making mountains out of mole hills"
I personally never understood how a character having strengths like "being smart" or "a strong female" makes them a better character.
A better person, yes.
But character? Not necessarily. That all depends on how the author handles them.
Should we love all the "perfect" Mary Sues...? Or aren't they annoying for being corny and poorly written?
I saw a lot of flaws in the way Annabeth was written, despite any of her character traits, such as bravery.
I personally never understood how a character having strengths like "being smart" or "a strong female" makes them a better character.
A better person, yes.
But character? Not necessarily. That all depends on how the author handles them.
Should we love all the "perfect" Mary Sues...? Or aren't they annoying for being corny and poorly written?
I saw a lot of flaws in the way Annabeth was written, despite any of her character traits, such as bravery.
i like annabeth, but sometimes i don't think i like her. she's just kind of... idk. just dont really like her.
KryZad The Last Knight Templar wrote: "I don't HATE, like CAST TO TARTARUS Annabeth. I hate LEO. And yeah, CAST TO TARTARUS level. Annabeth is fine, but huge chunk of her character development is hindered by her super cheesy love for ..."
Could I please give you an award for accuracy? THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL.
(Except for the hating Leo part. I love Leo. And I hate like, CAST TO TARTARUS Annabeth)
I'd say calling the romance in MoA acceptable is pushing it... Even in the orignal PJ books it was cheesey. I think people tend to have rose colored glasses while looking back, but the romance was always pretty lame. Scarce or not (and it was never really that scarce).
I never liked her very much...
I literally cannot stand her I thought I was the only one. I don't really like Rachel either to be honest... Nothing in particular to do with them liking Percy, I just find the two of them annoying and unnecessary.
Nightlock wrote: "I probably am. I'm going to have a lot of people go against me on this thread but I'll stand up for what I believe in because I don't understand what's so likable about Annabeth. OK, she's wise and..."No, You certainly aren't the only one. It feels so good to know I'm not alone in this! I've hated her since the very beginning, because she always felt like a really terrible version of Hermione. It was like Rick Riordan tried to make a Hermione-ish character, but failed. Hermione is wise, and she can come across as snobby, but she has a good heart and is genuinely kind. She cares about the well-being of others. Annabeth comes across as an asshole (at least to me), all the time. I feel like she thinks everyone else is stupid, and she's not. #Ms.Highn'Mighty
I've never shipped Percabeth, either. Percy is too good for her.
Luna, ikr!
Annabeth is the kind of character you get when you think you have to try too hard to make a "strong female" character, resulting in nobody ever being able to get the better of her and her getting a free pass to be a big fat jerk for no reason.
Also she is just used as a tool to compliment Percy. He's the "funny" one that she always shakes her head at. As if he is even that impressive... Everything about her is just totally contrived, that's why I don't like her or think she's a good character.
Annabeth is the kind of character you get when you think you have to try too hard to make a "strong female" character, resulting in nobody ever being able to get the better of her and her getting a free pass to be a big fat jerk for no reason.
Also she is just used as a tool to compliment Percy. He's the "funny" one that she always shakes her head at. As if he is even that impressive... Everything about her is just totally contrived, that's why I don't like her or think she's a good character.
I mean, the whole, "seaweed brain," thing, for example! It's so cheesey, just an excuse to make us think Percy is so great. She is always shown preferring the more "sensible" choices just so we'll think Percy is more fun. At least J.K Rowling portrays Hermione as bossy and weird when she acts like that. It's not just expected because "oh, of course nobody is as funny and great as the main character." Annabeth is just a stepping stone.
Exactly, Brown. Exactly.Honestly, I'm not 100% sure why so many people like Annabeth. It's appalling.
Luna wrote: "Exactly, Brown. Exactly.Honestly, I'm not 100% sure why so many people like Annabeth. It's appalling."
Exactly! I really don't understand what it is about her that makes people go starry eyed :/ What's appealing about her? Her bossiness? Her "troubled" and "oh so sad" past? Percabeth (Ew)? WHAT exactly?
Nightlock wrote: "I probably am. I'm going to have a lot of people go against me on this thread but I'll stand up for what I believe in because I don't understand what's so likable about Annabeth. OK, she's wise and..."YES you are.....
May be people may not love her but giving such entirely false reasons is so wrong.
that's like saying Piper is all about boys and is simply too much into Jason and like telling Hazel is too selfish and worried only about her own problems.
Not that i hate Hazel but if you're saying Annabeth is moody i don't know what you're supposed to say for Hazel.And if Annabeth is over-protective of Percy then Piper is what?tooo over-protective of Jason?Please And paranoid?seriously?if you call Annabeth paranoid then i should say- so is every other person on the Argo II.Also no one else was doomed to go on a solo quest where every other person in history has always failed before,were they?at least the others were told that hercules and some other heroes had succeeded in their task before during the first giant war. My point is you may not like a character in a book-it happens with all of us-but please calling Annabeth paranoid and over-protective and bossy is just waay over the line.Its like saying Octavian is truthful because he saw Leo blast the camp and didn't lie about it.
How twisted is that?
So people speak up and lets be done with this discussion.
Nightlock wrote: "Luna wrote: "Exactly, Brown. Exactly.Honestly, I'm not 100% sure why so many people like Annabeth. It's appalling."
Exactly! I really don't understand what it is about her that makes people go s..."
Okay. I'm going to do my best to delve deep into the minds of Annabeth lovers. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that it's because people can't recognize a well developed character worthy of praise or liking, so they just like em all.
Ice,
The whole problem is that Rick Riordan doesn't portray her as bossy when she actually is, and you're falling for it.
We're not allowed to think of her as flawed because she's a girl. Therefore she is always right and has to be sensible all the time. Ugh
The whole problem is that Rick Riordan doesn't portray her as bossy when she actually is, and you're falling for it.
We're not allowed to think of her as flawed because she's a girl. Therefore she is always right and has to be sensible all the time. Ugh
He is too politically correct for his own good.
What he did with Nico proves that.
Biased corniness is not how you win people over or prove a point. You win people over by telling the truth. This is why basic virtues are so important when you tell a story.
What he did with Nico proves that.
Biased corniness is not how you win people over or prove a point. You win people over by telling the truth. This is why basic virtues are so important when you tell a story.
Some authors might not even realize they're not being sincere because political correctness is already so ingrained in them. Rick Riordan was a school teacher, and is probably used to trying to appease all sorts of people rather than offend them.
In his own way, he is a coward. He can't even make creative ideas without using a safety blanket of sarcasm all the time. Actual threatening villains? Forget about it. This is an author who puts himself in a box on purpose. Over and over again. This is why I'm not on the edge of my seat to finish BoO and possibly never will.
In his own way, he is a coward. He can't even make creative ideas without using a safety blanket of sarcasm all the time. Actual threatening villains? Forget about it. This is an author who puts himself in a box on purpose. Over and over again. This is why I'm not on the edge of my seat to finish BoO and possibly never will.
Brown wrote: "Some authors might not even realize they're not being sincere because political correctness is already so ingrained in them. Rick Riordan was a school teacher, and is probably used to trying to app..."I agree. When I started HoO, I was expecting something amazing. Like, Rainbows and Sparkles n' Non-Acid Acid Trip, Pretty Colors amazing. I'm highly disappointed. Some of you might say that my expectations were too high, but I don't think so. I expected something so great because I felt like Rick was capable of it. PJO was a fantastic series. I loved it. So, I expected HoO to be even better.
Honestly, I really wish Rick would have just ended it where he did instead of publishing HoO, but it's too late now. PJO could've went out in a blaze of glory, which was right where the series ended.
Is this hatred due to not reading the first series because you have so much more understanding an pacience for her!?!
Percy wasn't so great in HoO either. We're just expected to think he's so COOL and FUNNY and hot now.
Plus he acts like a fool whose life revolves around holding hands with Annabeth and thinking about how cute she is.
RR shouldn't have tried to appease the young fans who don't even know what romance or being in love means, and only think they appreciate it because they don't know any better. It's not about idolizing each other or acting "different" than when you're "just friends." Their whole clown show in Hades was downright unimpressive.
Apparently they can't interact like human beings anymore once they're "ina relayshinship!!!111 <3333"
Plus he acts like a fool whose life revolves around holding hands with Annabeth and thinking about how cute she is.
RR shouldn't have tried to appease the young fans who don't even know what romance or being in love means, and only think they appreciate it because they don't know any better. It's not about idolizing each other or acting "different" than when you're "just friends." Their whole clown show in Hades was downright unimpressive.
Apparently they can't interact like human beings anymore once they're "ina relayshinship!!!111 <3333"
I don't get it. Isn't every one behaving in much the same way? It's only because we know Percy and Annabeth from PJO and their roles are made important in HoO too, that we think they are only romantic. For all I can see, we are expected to think of everyone on Argo II as COOL & FUNNY & HOT. Not just Percy you know.
I get how some people dislike Annabeth, but honestly, she's not that bad. Sure, she has her bad side: Moody, Paranoid... But that's what makes her a character! She is wise and smart. Both of her sides combined makes it interesting to read! :-)
Ice,
Yes, all the characters were far too much telling and not enough showing. Rick's characters are always like that. He wants us to shake our heads at them and think of them in a certain way by insisting and insisting through dialogue and narration that we should.
Leo might say something about Nico like, "Man, that guy gives me the creeps!" or he might describe how much Annabeth is in awe of"funny, old sarcastic Percy." It's so overbearing! Good authors can make us think of their characters in the way they want WITHOUT using a megahpone, but by letting them make up their own mind about what they provided through good, solid character interaction and story.
Rick Riordan is terrible at that. He is always busy patting himself on the back and using his characters as stepping stones for each other. That is not good story telling.
Yes, all the characters were far too much telling and not enough showing. Rick's characters are always like that. He wants us to shake our heads at them and think of them in a certain way by insisting and insisting through dialogue and narration that we should.
Leo might say something about Nico like, "Man, that guy gives me the creeps!" or he might describe how much Annabeth is in awe of"funny, old sarcastic Percy." It's so overbearing! Good authors can make us think of their characters in the way they want WITHOUT using a megahpone, but by letting them make up their own mind about what they provided through good, solid character interaction and story.
Rick Riordan is terrible at that. He is always busy patting himself on the back and using his characters as stepping stones for each other. That is not good story telling.
Gabby,
I like characters who have faults. I do not like characters whose faults are all supposed to be endearing or secretly build up their image. (Annabeth is "tough" and "cool" whenever she's a bossy jerk. Not someone we're supposed to think is doing something we don't want her to). That is the trick of Mary Sues. (And no, I'm not singling her out because she's a girl, before anyone says so. I think all the characters are Sue-ish. Percy included. But the topic here is about Annabeth).
I like characters who have faults. I do not like characters whose faults are all supposed to be endearing or secretly build up their image. (Annabeth is "tough" and "cool" whenever she's a bossy jerk. Not someone we're supposed to think is doing something we don't want her to). That is the trick of Mary Sues. (And no, I'm not singling her out because she's a girl, before anyone says so. I think all the characters are Sue-ish. Percy included. But the topic here is about Annabeth).
^Agreed. With everything that Brown said in the last two comments.
Whatever. I am sorry, but I can't make myself criticize Rick no matter what.
Hm....I never really liked her...but she has her moments....I think that she can't handle when someone does something better than her.....but she is okay i guess.
I think the problem here is people are thinking of her as a person and not as a character.
She's brave, tough, loyal, and smart.
Are you basing your opinion of her on that? Does that mean you like Mary Sues who are supposed to be perfect too?
There are different ways you have to judge characters.
This "you have to write strong female characters and you're golden," attitude is getting old. It pays no attention to what makes a good character in the first place!
Characters shouldn't be CONTRIVED. That's really all there is to it. Everything about Annabeth is completely forced upon us and not proven. Horrible story-telling.
She's brave, tough, loyal, and smart.
Are you basing your opinion of her on that? Does that mean you like Mary Sues who are supposed to be perfect too?
There are different ways you have to judge characters.
This "you have to write strong female characters and you're golden," attitude is getting old. It pays no attention to what makes a good character in the first place!
Characters shouldn't be CONTRIVED. That's really all there is to it. Everything about Annabeth is completely forced upon us and not proven. Horrible story-telling.
No author should take it into his hands to call his own character "the scary blonde girl," in a way that's completely, shamelessly patting himself on the back. Geez. I can't even imagine how full of yourself you have to be.
The more humble you are, the less you make a fool of yourself. Keep opinions to a minimum and just prove it to us. RR doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
The more humble you are, the less you make a fool of yourself. Keep opinions to a minimum and just prove it to us. RR doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
The Rick Riordan special:
1.have good ideas.
2.Completely ruin them by milking them and having too many opinions instead of just proving them and leaving well enough alone.
He does this with everything. His characters. His jokes. The romance, which is totally blown out of proportion.
1.have good ideas.
2.Completely ruin them by milking them and having too many opinions instead of just proving them and leaving well enough alone.
He does this with everything. His characters. His jokes. The romance, which is totally blown out of proportion.
Wow! That is seriously a first......
Leo! Leo! Like Leo!Spoiler Alert *his crush is a longgggg ways away.*
What?!?! Annabeth was always and will always will be one of my favorite characters. So maybe she doesn't really have a sense of humor, but we all have flaws. Sorry, I just don't get how anyone could hate her.
Jessica,
It's because her flaws aren't portrayed as flaws.
It's because her flaws aren't portrayed as flaws.
Kamiko wrote: "Your defying the laws of books by hating Annabeth"totally!
Abi wrote: "ANNABETH IS AWESOME!"I don't know if you've noticed but I (and every Annabeth lover or hater) am done with this discussion.
I used to tolerate her, but after Mark of Athena I couldn't stand her. She isn't perfect, in fact she's very realistic and flawed, but the way the other characters interact with her you'd think she was a Goddess. I suppose a lot of my problems with her stem from recognizing a lot of my flaws in her, but I wish she would grow more as a character rather than everyone seeing her flaws as virtues.
Katie wrote: "I used to tolerate her, but after Mark of Athena I couldn't stand her. She isn't perfect, in fact she's very realistic and flawed, but the way the other characters interact with her you'd think she..."PREACH.
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You know Rick Riordan is just making her ..."
Oh dear Merlin, I love you :') That was nothing short of perfect.