A Court of Thorns and Roses
discussion
What do we think about the ending with Rhysand? [Spoilers]
This whole situation is tragic, for everyone involved. Also imagine how Rhysand felt when Feyre says "I've come to claim the one I love, Tamlin." Like even though they don't know each other, that had to feel a little like a brick to the head. What I really admire from him as well is that he doesn't really go into the typical "this is why I'm better than that guy" mode that you see so often in love triangles. At least, not in the first book. He puts Tamlin down mostly for how he runs his court, but you can still see some glimpses that there was a time when they were allies and possibly friends. Even if Rhysand does get jealous of Tamlin, it doesn't come across as that petty love triangle jealousy.
He doesn't use the mate bond at all to sway Feyre and it's so refreshing. He respects her choices, even if those choices weren't him. All he really asked for was two weeks (reduced to one) a month, mostly likely because he'd rather see her a little than never at all.
(But we can totally now understand why he got so angry when Feyre asked "why do you care?" lol)
Malcome21 wrote: "If Feyre and Rhys are mates. then how do you think Tamlin will discover that they are mate. and do you think he will be mad at Feyre or Rhys or both? tell what you think will happen.Sorry of i am..."
I think he will be very angry at Rhys and will think that Feyre will choose him because she saved him. He may want to kill Rhys but Tamlin will be wrong because neither Rhys or Feyre caused this to happen. Rhys was not even going to tell Feyre about their bond.
I'm glad that Rhysand hasn't told her, because it allows Feyre to fall for him without that influence. If he had said "by the way we're mates" than that could influence her feelings. But as it is, she's unaware, so everything she feels will be very real and true.
WinterRose wrote: "I'm glad that Rhysand hasn't told her, because it allows Feyre to fall for him without that influence. If he had said "by the way we're mates" than that could influence her feelings. But as it is, ..."As you mention this I am also glad too. I think Feyre is indeed going to fall for him or maybe is already in the process.
Laura wrote: "There's something that still bugs me about all this. According to Rhys, seeing Feyre for the first time, being in her presence and touching her was extremely overwhelming. Why do you think she didn..."Well, Rhys's reaction might be more on an emotional level. For example, mates are sacred for his kind. It's a big deal. There's probably a certain level of hype (for lack of a better word) and thrill when you finally find them, especially if you've lived hundreds and hundreds of years. It might also be a little different for males, too. More overwhelming. He could scent her, after all. There was a pull Feyre felt as well, even if she didn't realize it. But it also could have effected her a little different, yes, because she was human.
Laura wrote: "There's something that still bugs me about all this. According to Rhys, seeing Feyre for the first time, being in her presence and touching her was extremely overwhelming. Why do you think she didn..."It could have been that she was new to the whole thing and he had never felt the tension he felt around her as soon as he met her because he has never had a mate before and recognized her.
Laura wrote: "There's something that still bugs me about all this. According to Rhys, seeing Feyre for the first time, being in her presence and touching her was extremely overwhelming. Why do you think she didn..."I'd have to agree- I think it is because she wasn't Fey yet- so she couldn't have had a "Fey" mate.. though I wonder what triggered his realization right there at the end! (This is all assuming it is, in fact.. the mate theory)
Except though that she WAS still affected as a human. There was that voice that pulled her into Fire Night. She felt Rhysand's sadness in that one scene. She flashed between their bodies during the fight with Amarantha. She even painted stars and the night on her door. Maybe it just developed more slowly for her, and like I said, maybe it's a little more strong for males. A little more primal, so to say.
Agreed. And I was re-reading the end, and here's what I think. When Rhysand caught her scent the first time, she was human. I think you're right in that when she died, he felt as if the bond was gone. (I think he says that, too.) I don't think he ever realized Feyre was seeing through his eyes at the end. In that one teaser, it says "Rhys's head whipped to me" right as she's describing how she saw through his eyes to the bone carver or whoever that person is.You'll notice before he stumbles, his nostrils flare. Then he looks at her, then stumbles. So I think it was because he got a very strong wave of her scent, stronger now because she's high fae like him, and it basically took his breath away which is why he stumbled. Then the shock registered because he realized the bond was still there.
Malcome21 wrote: "If Feyre and Rhys are mates. then how do you think Tamlin will discover that they are mate. and do you think he will be mad at Feyre or Rhys or both? tell what you think will happen.Sorry of i am..."
I think Tamlin will blame Rhys for the bond. I mean, from his pov, Rhys was pretty much the enemy taunting him and manipulating his fiancé during the trial. Sure he tried to help her later and even played a part in her resurrection. But then he took her away in the middle of their wedding and he will have no idea what is going on at the Night Court. Plenty of time for the seductive Rhys to work his magic on her.
Hmm, does anyone think that Rhys really is the most beautiful Far or is it just because it is from Feyre's pov?
I keep reading a ton of things on tumblr where people are mad if Rhysand and Feyre end up together because the first book will be pointless. I don't think the first book will be pointless because Maas has been building Feyre and Rhysand's relationship from the start. There aren't two love interests-- Rhysand is the love interest. At the mating ritual Feyre felt a pull to go to the forest. NOT because Tamlin was there but because she had a gut feeling. In the forest who does she meet...Rhysand. The first thing Rhysand says to Feyre is that he has been looking for her. UMM HELLO GUYS I think some people may take this in the context he was just saying that to help her but I think he meant it literally because *drum roll please* they are mates.
From that point I think Rhys knew that they were mates. At the spring court Rhysand is upset that Tamlin is hiding someone from him and BAM it is Feyre. Rhysand never showed it but I think that this shocked him. At this point I think Rhysand realized he was screwed because:
A) they needed Feyre to fall in love with Tamlin
B) Feyre is no match against Amanthra
The ending scene when he flares his nostrils I think he is surprised that they are still mates and freaks out because he realized he is doomed to be forever alone since his mate is with someone else and he has this whole thing where everyone he loves is taken away from him.
Thoughts?
Agreed. I even told Aqsa a long time ago, what if Rhysand knew they were mates and that's why he said "I've been looking for you."What's great is the way Maas has written it so far, the mate bond hasn't been used as manipulative of feelings. Meaning, Rhys isn't using it to force Feyre into choosing him. He's not even telling her about it so she can be with Tamlin, if that's what she wants.
Knowing he's known all along makes the "point" of the first book more interesting. For both Rhysand and Tamlin, they both sacrifice a lot to protect Feyre. Nearly every choice Rhysand made in ACOTAR was to protect his court and Feyre. Same can nearly be said of Tamlin, once he started falling for Feyre. I don't like heroines to be presented as rewards--this isn't who deserves Feyre more, or who sacrificed more, etc.
It's about what FEYRE wants and needs. Too many shippers make it all about the guys--what the guy gave up, what the guy wants, what the guy did for the girl, etc. No, no no. I hate when people disregard Feyre's feelings so their fav guy gets what he wants.
I ship the shit out of Feyre and Rhysand, but it's not because I love Rhysand so much that I think he should "get the happy ending he earned/deserved." And you know, Rhysand seems to act the same way. You don't see him being all "I did so much for you Feyre I've been protecting you from the start, you should be with me and not Tamlin." No, he respects her enough to put HER WANTS before his own. Readers should learn to do the same.
(Rhysand will accept Feyre with open arms, obviously, but on her terms. I love that he makes it about her more than about himself.)
WinterRose wrote: "Agreed. I even told Aqsa a long time ago, what if Rhysand knew they were mates and that's why he said "I've been looking for you."What's great is the way Maas has written it so far, the mate bond..."
I agree withyou guys, all along.
I'm even more in love with Rhys character now. I reread some Feyfand scenes and each time, I'm like "No way, she is his mate". The guy never gave up any clue, it's crazy!
I've also been rereading some of the final scenes. Does anyone else think it was significant to the bond resuming after Feyre is resurrected when Rhysand gives his part of the gift and says "For what she gave....Now we're even..."? We know that mates have to be equal in every way and I have to wonder that perhaps Rhysand's verbal acknowledgement of this was what caused the bond to come back.
Kristin wrote: "I've also been rereading some of the final scenes. Does anyone else think it was significant to the bond resuming after Feyre is resurrected when Rhysand gives his part of the gift and says "For wh..."When Rhysand said "for what she gave...now we're even." I think he meant it in the sense that Feyre gave up her human life to save the fae under the mountain and in a way they are all in debt to Feyre because without her they would all still be imprisoned or killed. Thus, by the high lords giving her a new life for the one she lost the fae are now like "there we are even now" sort of thing. From what I understand from ACOTAR it seems like deals and debt are very important in their culture.
I am also curious to see if the two are just "mates" or "soul mates." I am leaning more towards them being soul mates since the bond stayed intact even after Feyre died. Hypothetically maybe that is why the bond stayed intact since Feyre's soul came back in her new body. Hopefully Maas will explain this in the upcoming book....so freaking excited!
http://worldofsarahjmaas.com/post/142...Check it. New quote. Obviously a Feysand one. *fangirls quietly because at work*
Ione wrote: "I ship Rhys and Feyre, but I disagree with you guys. Mates or not, Tamlin is a love interest of Feyre. She fell in love with him in the first book, and went through all the ordeals because of her l..."I think she fell in love with tam as a human girl with human heart (she wanted different things/ saw world differently)
But now as things have changed and feyre being high fae and the mate bond coming into picture + feyre being changed person bc of the ordeal under the mountain she cant love the same way
Human feyre: 1st puppy love with tamlin
High fae feyre: true love with rhys + mate bond
Agreed with what you said, Laura! Rhys's position in Feyre's life has been set in stone from the beginning. He really is her one true love.Feysand is canon as hell.
By the way, I have my doubts about Tamlin and Feyre's relationship, maybe I'll make a post about it.
I was just discussing something similar to this with Rose. I'd love to see your thoughts on it.
Back to the new quote, " I want you to know ... that I'm broken and healing, but every piece of my heart belongs to you "
Who do think Feyre is telling this ?
Mirou wrote: "Who do think Feyre is telling this ?"It could be Tamlin-- but Feyre sounds too honest in this scene and we know she and Tamlin aren't even addressing their "brokenness"; she is never this open with him.
After all the previews/spoilers etc, I am pretty damn sure she is saying this to Rhys.
Ione wrote: "I ship Rhys and Feyre, but I disagree with you guys. Mates or not, Tamlin is a love interest of Feyre. She fell in love with him in the first book, and went through all the ordeals because of her l..."I see what you're saying here, "Human feyre: 1st puppy love with tamlin".
However, Sarah specifically mentions in the first book that Feyre realized she didn't love Issac. That's why she is able to recognize her love and feelings for him being stronger.
My only thing with the mate thing is why would Rhys feel it so explicitly but Feyre doesn't? It's only hinted at for her.
I hate to say it, but I'm scared of the parallels between Tamlin and Chaol.
He would have taken her somewhere, they would have gotten to know each other without anything standing in their way, and eventually, would have fallen in love.Well actually, he couldn't have, because he was still stuck with Amarantha. He only had until the dawn before he had to return. Feyre I think was meant to love Tamlin first. He was her first love, and there is some merit there for being someone that helped her learn to see the Fae differently. But she's grown since, will want new things, and it's Rhysand that she's meant to end up with forever.
And I will say even if I don't ship Tam/Feyre, I'm glad it wasn't written like an obstacle. Sometimes in love triangles you can tell one guy doesn't have a chance because it's not written fairly. You know he's only there to place tension between the girl and the other guy. But in this case, it doesn't feel that way. It feels like Feyre and Tamlin had their love story; but it's a story that wasn't meant to last forever. Rhysand and Feyre's is meant to.
I just like that Maas lets her characters experience more than one love in their lives.
My only thing with the mate thing is why would Rhys feel it so explicitly but Feyre doesn't?
I think it affects each person differently and because he's Fae, he has that whole scenting thing, too. Feyre also blames the tattoo for a lot of what could have been mate related--like how she felt Rhys's sadness, how she saw through his eyes, etc. She doesn't know the "symptoms" for lack of a better word for a mate, whereas Rhys probably does. And her being human, they could be more subtle. It very well could start to her her more strongly now that she's Fae. She knew it was Rhys that summoned her at the end, for example, without a reason as to why. She just knew.
Another sad thing to think about. When Rhysand realized he found his mate, that she was human. Not because he hates humans, but because that means she won't live forever. He'd have a mate that was destined to die. THAT's also depressing.
Mirou wrote: "Back to the new quote, " I want you to know ... that I'm broken and healing, but every piece of my heart belongs to you "
Who do think Feyre is telling this ?"
I think it is Tamlin becaues if she has to tell Rhys this it would be at the end of book 3.
"I want you to know that I'm broken and healing , but every piece of my heart belongs to you."I think she is telling this to Tamlin . And I think it happened when Tamlin started to doubt her that something was going on between Rhays and Feyre in the night court ,and that's when she told him that she will never leave him and to ensure him that she is still the same person from inside who fell in love with him while she still has her doubts about that.
Indeed yes. I think she is also trying to reassure herself that she does not love Rhys and she is just lying to herself. I hope Tamlin does not have a main role in this book though..
Laura wrote: "@Ione, when I said that Rhys was the love interest from the start what I mean is that he was always the one Feyre was “supposed” to love from a narrative point of view and it was always Sarah's int..."Girl you are spot on. I completely agree with you. Hopefully your predictions come true in book two! I think you should make a post about Tamlin and Feyre's relationship it would be interesting to read your thoughts.
Side note...in Beauty and the Beast the beast at one point locks Belle up and keeps her as a prisoner because he is angry with her. I can totally see Tamlin finding out that Feyre and Rhysand are mates and he locks her up in a "if I can't have her no one can have her" sort of thing.
Also not to hate on any Tamlin fans but I am curious why people like him so much. The guy rubbed me the wrong way from the start. The high lord doesn't seem to have much drive or motivation. It seemed like Tamlin had given up hope in finding a girl to break the curse--like dude this is your fault why aren't you trying harder to save your people and yourself? Andras was the only one proactively trying to break the curse.
Off-topic: We were wondering with @Lena, how is it going to be Tamlin and Ferye break-up ?
Obviously, this is going to happen. Every review so far said that Feyre will choose the best one for her and we know it's going to be Rhys.
Do you think Feyre will be the one telling Tamlin about the mate bond or Rhys ? Is Tamlin going to easily let go Feyre ?
And oh, another question:
How do you think Feyre's sisters will comw to Prythian ? Do you think Feyre will change her mind and invite them at her wedding ?
- I'm so into Lucien*Nesta [We pictured Nesta saying some nasty comments to Ianthe, because we are sure they wouldn't get along]
Mirou wrote: "Off-topic: We were wondering with @Lena, how is it going to be Tamlin and Ferye break-up ?
Obviously, this is going to happen. Every review so far said that Feyre will choose the best one for he..."
Feyre will most likely try to distance herself from Tamlin and grow to miss the Night Court and her friends there when she is in the Spring Court.
I can imagine Feyre realizing she and Rhys are mates and avoiding the subject with Tamlin. Either Feyre will tell him or Tamlin will figure it out himself. However it will probably be bad. Tamlin will go all beast and maybe lock Feyre up and try to stop her from going to the Night Court anymore. I can picture him being in denial and not believing Feyre and saying she was "brain washed."
I really don't think Rhys will rub it in Tamlin's face or anything because Rhysand doesn't think of Feyre as a possession or prize.
Yet if Tamlin hurts Feyre... Rhysand will most likely kick his behind and put him in his place.
I think Nesta is coming back in book two. I like the idea of her and Lucien ending up together. I don't think Elain will come back in this book...she didn't have much of a role in the first book.
Actually now that I think about it I don't even think Elain knows what happened to Feyre because of the glamour Tamlin put on her in the beginning of the book. Nesta was the only one who was immune to fae magic/influence. Nesta never told her family what happened either she lied saying she was going somewhere and then went searching for Feyre.
If Feyre does get married in this series I think it will happen after the war....so maybe book three sometime after the wall separating the fae and humans is destroyed. I hope her sisters go to her wedding (and her dad).
New quotehttp://worldofsarahjmaas.com/post/143...
I've decided that I don't care with whom Feyre ends up with as long as she feels happy around him and that her significant other can envoke those feelings in her.
Do you think Feyre will be the one telling Tamlin about the mate bond or Rhys ? Is Tamlin going to easily let go Feyre ?I feel like it could go many ways. Because the Fae have their whole scenting thing going on, I think Tamlin will see a change in Feyre's scent. That it's more like Rhysand's.
At first, he's no doubt going to be furious over the whole thing because he's so paranoid about something happening to Feyre. I think the first real fight will be when Tamlin is trying to get Feyre out of the bargain and she admits she doesn't WANT out because she likes it there--or something along those lines.
I think if he sees how much happier she is when she comes back from the night court, he'll struggle not letting her go where she's happy, once he lets go of his paranoia and anger. I expect some nastiness with their relationship, but ultimately I think he wants her to be happy--and if he changes his opinion on Rhysand and figures out their mates, I don't think he'll fight it. At first, yes. But not at the end.
640 is SO LONG, especially for one POV so I think the change in relationships won't feel rushed at all. There's some distance between Tam and Feyre at the end of ACOTAR to begin with.
How do you think Feyre's sisters will comw to Prythian ?
My prediction was Feyre was going to go to Tamlin and say what Rhysand told her, about the threat of the wall coming down, and say she wants involved because of her family. So rather than Feyre get involved (which Tam won't want because he's so paranoid over her safety) he will bring her family to his estate.
If Feyre does get married in this series I think it will happen after the war
I actually think it might happen at the end of ACOMAF, as a wedding and coronation of sorts. I think Feyre will marry Rhysand via mating ceremony and also become High Lady, so they will rule as equals. Either Feyre will have powers strong enough to be considered a High Lady, or Rhysand will give her that title.
I re-read ACOTAR so I could look for the clues that the author weaved throughout it, based on the spoilers from ACOMAF. It's funny how every time I read it I am Team Tamlin and enjoy them together... up until UtM and Rhysand is helping her through the trials. I tried paying close attention to clues, such as whenever Feyre painted or felt something Rhys was feeling. It's almost like the author puts so much distance between Tamlin and Feyre during the UtM scenes as a way of lessening their romance. The entire three months UtM all they have are a few looks and the few minutes of making out in the alcove before Rhys catches them. And I don't know that I'm entirely convinced that Feyre did everything UtM *FOR* Tamlin. She has guilt over killing Andras in the first place. She has guilt for Alis and the boys she's watching over. She has guilt over the Spring Court being tied to the "blight" because of Amarantha. And she especially feels guilty over Claire Beddor. So while I think part of her is doing the tasks UtM because she has feelings for Tamlin, it's not all because she's in love with him. It's her atoning for her guilt.
May 3rd cannot come fast enough. My anniversary is on May 4th and I can honestly say I'm more looking forward to the book release than I am my own anniversary! LOL
Excellent meta Laura!I won't be surprised if the one responsible for their fall out was Tamlin.
Im with you on this. (view spoiler)
This makes me wonder why is it that Rhys has such a bad opinion of Tamlin.I didn't get the impression that Rhysand necessarily had a bad opinion of Tamlin. (His first comment was something like "It's been 49 years and suddenly it's Rhysand? now" To me this indicates they were once at least allies, maybe even friends before Amarantha.) He may respect Feyre's wish to be with Tamlin, but I think if Rhys truly thought Tamlin was a bad person, he wouldn't be so willing to let her go.
Rather, I did get the impression Rhys thought Tamlin was a weak high lord.
It's just hard to know what Rhys really thinks, knowing he had to wear so many masks in ACOTAR and manipulate situations. During that lunch scene, he obviously needed Tamlin to fear him, to think he'd tell Amarantha so Tam would send Feyre away.
Laura wrote: "About Tamlin and Feyre:Many things in their relationship make me really skeptical.
First let's just say the Feyre who goes UtM is not the same Feyre who comes out. She goes through so much in th..."
Laura you make an interesting point. Your analogy of a kid and a new toy is exactly how Tamlin treats Feyre. It has been a while since I have read the book but I had completely forgotten that Rhys was the one that manipulated Tamlin into sending Feyre away. Even though I am not a huge fan of Tamlin I can understand why he used Feyre-- this was his last shot. It would be interesting if Rhysand and Tamlin have more history together but I hope if they do it doesn't take precedent over the major issue at hand which is the looming war. I don't know about you guys but I am very excited to read about the new night court characters. Feyre could use some friends.
Rhys only figured out Feyre was in the room with them when he noticed the extra chair and meal. So if he was acting before that, it didn't have the purpose of sending her away yet, because he didn't know she was there.Do you think he didn't? I'm not so sure now. If he could catch her scent and track her on Fire Night, I'd assume he did it again. I don't think Tamlin's glamour would hide a mate's scent from their mate. Though he was very offended/angry to be glamoured. But it could have been an act, of course.
Rhys had to go back to UtM by dawn on Fire Night, but the fact he saw Feyre creating flowers make me wonder how many times he got out to see her.
I don't think Rhys had to live under there that whole time, if I recall correctly. He had more freedom to come and go. Only when Feyre came did Amarantha not allow anyone to leave until those 3 months were over. (Also, 3 MONTHS. Three months went by where Feyre literally had one moment with Tamlin. That's probably a blink for him but for her, that's a long time.)
Based on that teaser, how overwhelmed Rhys was that Feyre was there and he was touching her, I think he's seen visions, pieces of her, if you will. Not in person until that moment.
GUYSIbooks finally released the entire 5 chapters of Acomaf! INCLUDING THE WEDDING AND RHYS'S ENTRY. :D
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/a-co...
*SCREAMS*
OMG!!! So excited! XD
Aqsa wrote: "OKAY- A few things.- I love Rhys so much.
- I want to give Feyre a big hug- I cannot even believe that no one has taken notice of how much she is hurting and how broken she is.
- Rhys was checki..."
Yes to everything! I couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm going to hold off and not read it, because I want the full experience come May 3rd. However I am going to read all the spoilers and fan girl like crazy.I almost never have crushes on literary characters (except my own) but I definitely have it bad for Rhysand.
Tamlin and Ianthe are hiding something like seriously tamlin just gave up at the end, his claws were gone and he just threatened Rhys not to hurt her, what do they all need feyre for? What kind of power does she have that they desperately need?
Maybe Ianthe disappeared because she couldn't risk Rhys reading her mind?
Lol I laughed so hard when hart said that i was like "yeah whatever helps you sleep at night bitch"
And I absolutely loved how feyre defended Rhys almost immediately and did not care if this comment would also be judged.
Laura wrote: "I was actually expecting Tamlin to be a little more difficult to persuade. Not that he could do much but he settled quite easily. Something we got to see now is exactly how much people are afraid..."
(view spoiler)
I always wondered how Rhys mated with feyre even though she was a human, I thought it was only between faeries. I was rereading a scene in acotar and i found some gold (not really it was some sort of foreshadow) when feyre and tamlin were talking about the mating bond"I didn't have the nerve to ask if faeries had ever had mating bonds with humans,"
So yeah guess faeries can mate with humans but is it a one sided bond, or can the human feel the slightest fraction of it?
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Sorry of i am repeating what someone said. I can not read all the posts.