SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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What Else Are You Reading?
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What Else Are You Reading in 2018?
Actually, I decided to read some short stories before beginning my next novel. In the spirit of all of the amazing female writers whose brilliant work I’ve been reading this year — Ursula K. Le Guin, N.K. Jemisin, Robin Hobb, and Octavia E. Butler — I got a collection by Alice B. Sheldon, aka James Tiptree Jr. and read a couple of her stories. She’s fantastic, and has gone largely under appreciated in more recent years, it seems to me. Anyone out there know her work? (She also published as Raccoona Sheldon.)
I have got a little over two weeks to read 3 books for my unofficial goal of having read all of the Hugo nominee best novels this year before the award. I started on New York 2140 last night, and have Provenance and Six Wakes all queued up.
I've been catching up on past club reads and reading a fair amount of non-fiction:The Windup Girl
Moon Knight, Vol. 1: From the Dead
Armada
Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming
Acceptance
Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI
Locke & Key, Vol. 1: Welcome to Lovecraft
The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism
The Ends of the World: Volcanic Apocalypses, Lethal Oceans, and Our Quest to Understand Earth's Past Mass Extinctions
Selfie: How We Became So Self-Obsessed and What It's Doing to Us
I'm currently very nearly done with Altered Carbon (view spoiler) and The Outsider
Jen wrote: "I've been catching up on past club reads and reading a fair amount of non-fiction:The Windup Girl
Moon Knight, Vol. 1: From the Dead
Armada
[book:Me..."
re: spoiler...ME TOO!
Anthony wrote: "I got a collection by Alice B. Sheldon, aka James Tiptree Jr. and read a couple of her stories. She’s fantastic, and has gone largely under appreciated in more recent years, it seems to me. Anyone out there know her work? (She also published as Raccoona Sheldon.) "The name rings a bell, but none of the novels in the list sounds familiar. Must have been short stories in the numerous anthologies I read.
After having read two quite dark novels, I started The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet. I'm only a few chapters in, but it is already a delightful change for my mood.
@Gabi, I know what you mean about A Long Way... It’s a lovely palate cleanser.
Finally got around to starting Royal Assassin. Why it has taken me 2+ years to read this 2nd book is beyond me....okay, there are just too many wonderful books and I am indecisive. o_O
Alondra wrote: "Finally got around to starting Royal Assassin. Why it has taken me 2+ years to read this 2nd book is beyond me....okay, there are just too many wonderful books and I am indecisive..."
I’m so eager to talk to someone who’s read this book. I hope you enjoy!
Gabi wrote: "Anthony wrote: "I got a collection by Alice B. Sheldon, aka James Tiptree Jr. and read a couple of her stories. She’s fantastic and has gone largely underappreciated in more recent years, it seems..."Gabi, Becky Chambers, the author of The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet is a wonderful read. Another read of similar style is Fuzzy Nation by John Scalzi. Not his typical work space-opera warfare, but this is about an attorney turned prospector in a story set on a world somewhat similar to the one in Avatar. The fuzzy critters are the showstopper in that one -- lots of fun to read, and good science fiction to boot.
Richard wrote: "Another read of similar style is Fuzzy Nation by John Scalzi."Thank you so much for the recommendation, Richard. I put it on my TBR list.
re: TiptreeI've read Her Smoke Rose Up Forever, and decided that Tiptree is too much for me. It took me a long time to get through that book, I could only read one story at a time, and then I needed to lift my mood for weeks. It got to a point where I felt like thinking about picking it up was enough to make me depressed. I do appreciate her writing, though, but I can't handle it.
re: Chambers
I wish I'd saved Record of a Spaceborn Few to read after our August group reads. I've finished Parable of the Sower and am currently reading Parable of the Talents, and I'm going to need something very light, easy and fun after this! Chambers would have been perfect. Even when dealing with difficult subjects, she manages to make me feel happy.
Anthony wrote: "I got a collection by Alice B. Sheldon, aka James Tiptree Jr. and read a couple of her stories. She’s fantastic, and has gone largely under appreciated in more recent years, it seem..."I read Star Songs of An Old Primate and Warm Worlds and Otherwise last year and I was really impressed. My favorite of the ones I've read might be "Love is the Plan the Plan is Death."
Gabi wrote: "Richard wrote: "Another read of similar style is Fuzzy Nation by John Scalzi."Thank you so much for the recommendation, Richard. I put it on my TBR list."
Happy to help, Gabi. It sounded like you needed a pick-me-up away from the wild and wooly aspects of our "favorite" genre.
Anthony wrote: "I’m so eager to talk to someone who’s read this book. I hope you enjoy!..."Thanks a bunch. It is very good, so far; as I knew it would be. Robin Hobb really knows how to tell a story. Only about 100 pages in, though.
Alondra wrote: "Anthony wrote: "I’m so eager to talk to someone who’s read this book. I hope you enjoy!..."Thanks a bunch. It is very good, so far; as I knew it would be. Robin Hobb really knows how to tell a st..."
Aha. Just wait... Among other things, I feel Hobb is masterful at the steady unfolding of a story, and at creating a powerful cumulative effect...
@Anna re TiptreeI definitely agree that her work is heavy and disturbing, and i can completely understand why it would affect you so deeply and make it tough to want to move forward with her. I think it’s so remarkable to read work which feels as agitated, original, and vital now as it was 40 or more years ago when it was first published.
I'm reading THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING (1958) by T.E. White as part of the 
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Allen, as most people are tired of hearing, OaFK is my all time favorite!! What do you think of it so far?
Charming. I liked it better as a young adult, though. Now that I'm 63 I can no longer pretend that the Lancelot-Guinevere-Arthur triangle doesn't bother me. (I mean, it doesn't bother me because it is so fantastic but because it is so realistic!) Still enjoying the re-read, though. I'm keeping my eye open for the sly anachronisms that T. E. White included to keep things witty.
Have you been following the OaFK discussion over at
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I have not, but I might do!
Allison wrote: "ALLEN wrote: "I'm reading THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING (1958) by T.E. White as part of the KEEPING UP WITH CLASSICS group. Very much fantasy, though the underlying Arthurian legend is very well known."..."I wasn’t aware it’s considered a series, I always presumed it was a novel with that title, but now I’ve bought what turns out to be an omnibus of the first four books without realizing there’s a 5th. Do you consider it all one work? Just curious...
Anthony wrote: "ALLEN wrote: "That's very much a purely intellectual or moot question. I guess it's a suite of four of five of T.E. White's series (isn't the last one the witch in the wild?)"
Yes and there’s a f..."
Re: I wasn’t aware it’s considered a series, I always presumed it was a novel with that title, but now I’ve bought what turns out to be an omnibus of the first four books without realizing there’s a 5th. Do you consider it all one work? Just curious...
Great question, Anthony!
That's very much a purely intellectual or moot question subject to interpretation.
I guess it's a suite of four of five of T.E. White's fantasy novels concerning the Arthurian legend;
Per wikipedia:
"The book (i.e. OaFK) is divided into four parts:
The Sword in the Stone (1938), detailing the youth of Arthur
The Queen of Air and Darkness (1939), published separately in somewhat different form as The Witch in the Wood
The Ill-Made Knight (1940), dealing mainly with the character of Lancelot
The Candle in the Wind, first published in the composite edition, 1958
A final part, called The Book of Merlyn (written 1941, published 1977), was published separately following White's death. It chronicles Arthur's final lessons from Merlyn before his death, although some parts of it were incorporated into the final editions of the previous books. Much of the contents of this book appears in the first part of The Once and Future King.[1]"
link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Onc...
What complicates matters is that some of the prose in the 1938-39-40 novels (I DO consider them novels in the Fantasy genre) was altered or edited when it became part of OaFK in 1958.
At this point: the more I know, the less I know.
You know, there's an ongoing discussion of OaFK going on over at
Personally, I kind of felt cheated when I read the whole tetralogy (aha! "Tetralogy") many years ago and then learned there was a fifth book not included. Why it was never added to the first four I don't know -- considerations of marketing and merchandising probably had something to do with it.
Great question, as I said. And if there is no final, easy answer, Anthony, it's nobody's fault. Maybe the group reading OaFK will consider taking up The Book of Merlyn later -- I myself have no idea how practical that might be.
ALLEN wrote: "That's very much a purely intellectual or moot question. I guess it's a suite of four of five of T.E. White's series (isn't the last one the witch in the wild?)"
Yes and there’s a fifth book The Book of Merlyn which apparently was “long-lost” according to the description in the iBooks store.
Anthony wrote: "ALLEN wrote: "That's very much a purely intellectual or moot question. I guess it's a suite of four of five of T.E. White's series (isn't the last one the witch in the wild?)"
Yes and there’s a f..."
Yup, that's it: The Book of Merlyn. I just looked it up at Amazon, and it "only" costs nearly twice what all of OaFK costs in the widest-selling paperback.
Maybe we should blame Merlyn -- for him, 1941 followed 1958 . . .
Although, seriously, "long-lost' in publishers' jargon doesn't mean what it would mean to an historian or an archaeologist. As I recall, Harper Lee's Go Set a Watchman was referred to as "long-lost" although Lee herself knew where the MS was -- locked up in a cabinet back in New York City. And the owner of the cabinet knew, so how 'lost' was it really?
ALLEN wrote: "Anthony wrote: "ALLEN wrote: "That's very much a purely intellectual or moot question. I guess it's a suite of four of five of T.E. White's series (isn't the last one the witch in the wild?)"
Yes..."
Very interesting indeed. I wonder whether White and/or Lee never intended for these works to see the light of day?
@Allison, since you love this book (books?) so much, how do you relate to including The Book of Merlyn in the series?
There's a thread for TOAFK, I seem to remember there was some talk of the omnibus vs. the separate works.
Yes, thanks Anna! And Anthony, I apologize for getting the name of the other Group egregiously wrong. It's not "KEEPING UP WITH CLASSICS", but CATCHING UP ON CLASSICS. I lined-out my prior erroneous mentions where I could and replaced it with the correct moniker. Mea Culpa!
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I would not consider Book of Merlyn integral to my love of OaFK, which is mighty.
Allison, I won't argue with an expert. OaFK is indeed one book, but it consists of four pre-existing books that were edited into a whole -- yet still recognizable as books. After all, the Bible consists of 66 or more books. So it's nomenclatural, but I'm glad CATCHING UP ON CLASSICS is reading OaFK as a unit.
BTW what's your opinion of THE BOOK OF MERLYN, even if it really isn't one-of-a-piece with OaFK as we know it?
Allison wrote: "Anthony, The Once and Future King is now considered one book (though I would love love love to find the original books before they were edited and compiled! I can only find the Sword and the Stone ..."Thanks for the clarification. And as always, I sincerely applaud you and Anna for being fantastic, responsive, involved, passionate, kind, and engaging moderators for our group. It’s really wonderful.
Mod
Also, yes, the books were absolutely separate, and I still refer to them individually, but very apt comparing it to the Bible, that's how I consider it, too!
Anthony wrote: "Allison wrote: "Anthony, The Once and Future King is now considered one book (though I would love love love to find the original books before they were edited and compiled! I can only find the Swor..."Anthony, my info. is that Nelle Harper Lee authorized publication of GO SET A WATCHMAN when she was alive (and in her right mind). She certainly refused to have the MS destroyed.
Again, I'm no expert but if T.E. White wrote THE BOOK OF MERLYN in 1941 (and I'm not sure it wasn't pubished back then), when OaFK was being edited/written/compiled in the late 1950s either he or the publisher did not want that fifth volume in it. Probably T.E. White, because he was no fool and no stranger to commercial publishing.
Interesting man, really. I'd like to learn more about him someday. - a.s.
And now, I have to go to bed--and maybe read a little OaFK first.
- a.s.
Yesterday I finished Assassin's Quest. An interesting and satisfying conclusion to the trilogy. Also nicely odd at times. I haven't run across that much when it comes to magic or to visiting the ruins of an ancient fantasy culture. Kept me reading as I wanted to know the explanations for what the characters were seeing. Not quite sure what I'll read next. I'll have to check prices before I spend my pennies.
I'm about a third through Andy Weir's Artemis and must say I'm partly bored, partly annoyed. The main character is in her mid 20s but sounds like a teenaged brat with an attitude, sarcastic and know-it-all. The humor and sexual references are cringeworthy. And this is just my personal taste but long accounts of "let me tell you this stuff cos it's super important and throw in some jokes and wry comments for the luls" and descriptions of things not relating to the plot bore me to tears. My brain zones out! Less words, more substance, please!Can someone tell me if The Martian in written in the same tone?
Dawn, dump Artemis immediately, kill it with fire, and then read Martian instead!
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I believe this is the official SFFBC stance on Andy Weir's books. haha!
After seeing the film version of The Martian, which I mostly enjoyed, I felt zero compulsion to read the book. I can’t imagine what the novel might add to the experience...
Anthony wrote: "After seeing the film version of The Martian, which I mostly enjoyed, I felt zero compulsion to read the book. I can’t imagine what the novel might add to the experience..."Less emphasis on poop because there is more emphasis on interaction -- the people on Earth, the survivors on the way home, etc. Don't get me wrong, if anyone in the movies can make a convincing show of cultivating potatoes in 'night soil', it's Matt Damon; but it still is what it is and I thought too much time was spent on it. Somewhere in that flick was the core of an intelligent movie with a large cast a la THE RIGHT STUFF, but no . . . .
I hear what you’re saying regarding the film, but did those additional bits make the novel more compelling than the film?
Dawn wrote: "I'm about a third through Andy Weir's Artemis and must say I'm partly bored, partly annoyed. The main character is in her mid 20s but sound like a teenaged brat with an attitude, sa..."The Martian is much, much better. But he is a little snarky. Just not teenager snarky. That being said, I did like Artemis.
Anthony wrote: "I hear what you’re saying regarding the film, but did those additional bits make the novel more compelling than the film?"I think the book was more compelling for two main reasons:
(1) The film's producers did not show nearly as many ways as Andy Weir had put Watney in danger. You really get more of Watney. Also, there was a whole Earth subplot left out.
(2) The POV. This is the same reason The Hunger Games and The Lightning Thief were better books. You were in the main character's head.
Anthony wrote: "I hear what you’re saying regarding the film, but did those additional bits make the novel more compelling than the film?"I should have mentioned that I, too, think the novel THE MARTIAN is a lot, lot better than the attitude-ridden ARTEMIS, a sad example of a semi-lax follow-up to a best-seller.
THE MARTIAN isn't a bad movie, but I'm not sure I'd give it the eight point oh (out of ten) that IMDb has. A little longer of a movie that had incorporated more of the dialog from the novel away from Damon talking to himself and digging in the . . . crud . . . would have worked better. One suspects some of that better movie had been filmed and then edited down for running time (it is still crucial in the movie-screening industry how many times any given film can be shown in one evening in each theater). That's why I hit on THE RIGHT STUFF (1983, running time 3 hours, 13 minutes) as opposed to THE MARTIAN (2015, running time 2 hours, 24 minutes). If THE RIGHT STUFF had been released to approximate the running time of THE MARTIAN, I suspect people would have retained mostly the scenes of Chuck Yaeger (Sam Shepard) breaking the sound barrier, but we'd have missed so much of the interplay among the Mercury 7 astronauts, his aviation proteges in a sense, and the human comedy and drama they sparked off one another.
As a result, THE RIGHT STUFF covered the Tom Wolfe "nonfiction novel" a lot better than THE MARTIAN covered Andy Weir's bestseller. After all, Weir's novel did not have "additional" bits as much as TC Fox's release omitted them.
Kirsten wrote: "Anthony wrote: "I hear what you’re saying regarding the film, but did those additional bits make the novel more compelling than the film?"I think the book was more compelling for two main reasons..."
Thanks, Kristen. That’s helpful for sure.
You evoking The Hunger Games reminds me of the fact that in that book I so often did not buy the voice of the narrator. It drove me nuts. I found the plot and setting to be very interesting but I heard the author’s voice forcing its way into things way more than I heard Katniss’s voice, and that sort of thing is a huge frustration for me when I’m reading a first-person novel. I never read the other books in the series because of it.
Just read book 3 of the magic trilogy by Lyndon Hardy, Riddle of the Seven Realms and reviewed it - https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/2473327558.
Anthony wrote: "After seeing the film version of The Martian, which I mostly enjoyed, I felt zero compulsion to read the book. I can’t imagine what the novel might add to the experience..."The movie is good but the book is better.
At the very least the book can be viewed as an Extended Cut, with extra stuff not shown in the theatrical release.
Anthony wrote: "Aha. Just wait... Among other things, I feel Hobb is masterful at the steady unfolding of a story, and at creating a powerful cumulative effect......"I see that. It is so good and I really don't want to go to work and sacrifice much-needed reading time... :(
Anna wrote: "Dawn, dump Artemis immediately, kill it with fire, and then read Martian instead!"I agree and haven't even read Artemis ...... yet....
Trike wrote: "Anthony wrote: "After seeing the film version of The Martian, which I mostly enjoyed, I felt zero compulsion to read the book. I can’t imagine what the novel might add to the experience..."The movie is good but the book is better.
At the very least the book can be viewed as an Extended Cut, with extra stuff not shown in the theatrical release.
..."
I like that. Very optimistic, Trike!
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I’ll now dive into our group reads, although I’m not sure if I want to start with Parable of the Sower or The Changeling.