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Sandra, Moderator
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Aug 02, 2015 06:00PM
@Camilla, I read in the newspaper today that the school system is changing next year in Finland from subjects based to topic based. How is everyone finding this change? Its being call a revolution.
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This was the 2nd or 3rd time between both kids for us. At the time I was thinking these things are almost like a purple blueish color whats this kid been doing eating crayons. Just dawned on me yesterday my mother dropped off some fresh picked blueberries and when I went in the house I remember my wife saying sis ate so many blueberries shes gonna be pooping blue. Well that xplains it.
LOL! I remember those days, I think both my boys did that, I don't think my daughter did, but wow it's been a while :-)Speaking of changing school curriculum, the rest of you in the US are your kids doing common core now? We started last year and I am not liking it!
My frirnd is a math teacher. Hates common core with a passion. Yet will admit common core is not conoletely terrible. There is some good points about it they just need to fix and tweak it
:) Now you know what the problem was, Travis!I don't even know what common core is, Berit...
Just googled it. It seems PA adopted it too, but I don't think my kids school adopted it. It's a catholic private school, and they do a different kind of standards. I should refine my research.
Common Core has been adopted in CA, but the high school my daughter attends (and my boys graduated from) has only superficially adopted it. The school is a "prepatory" school of sorts for certain career tracks, like medicine, sciences, arts, writing, etc. so it isn't quite as insipid. I'm still glad I only have 2 years left of public school for mine.
LOL Travis. Apparently my mother was babysitting my nephew (2 and half) this weekend and he took his diaper off... she went to get a fresh one and when she walked back in the room he was squatted down pooping on the floor! I think Mississippi voted to do away with common core. They have had it for the past year or two and most parents I know hated it. One friend started home schooling her daughter because common core was so convoluted and could not help with homework at all.
But, I also know a math teacher that loves it. She said students that were struggling with basics were suddenly excelling.
Peggy wrote: "What is common core?"I too am wondering what it is so I'm glad you asked Peggy.
It's hard to explain, but I think the best way to explain it is you just can't get an answer like in math you have to explain how you got the answer and why you got the answer, so someone like my son who is very good at math, not all that great at explaining things, is kind of having a hard time with it.It also makes some things that are very easy a lot harder, like dividing by factions, all you have to do is flip it and multiply, but that's not the case in common core, I wanted to pull my hair out during that!
Sarah wrote: "Peggy wrote: "What is common core?"I too am wondering what it is so I'm glad you asked Peggy."
Common core are the basics and fundamentals which all students must learn at the core of their education. There are reading comprehension, social studies, language arts, science, among others. These are the core classes and fundamentals common for every single students outside of chosen electives. There are also certain ways they must be taught at times.
They also vary by States, some of which test on these. In Texas, they are referred to as the TEKS or Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills. Teachers create their lesson plans based on the TEKS (what every student should learn through out a school year) and then the students are tested on those every year to demonstrate proficiency and ability to move on to the next grade.
The core is also applied to other test such as the Standard Aptitude Test (SATs) and the ACTs as well as Advanced Placement or AP exams.
The only thing that varies slightly are I.B. exams.
In California we did away with all previous standardized test, and now have a entirely new testing system, and math is now integrated rather than subjugated if that makes sense, basically they tweet the educational system and gave it a new name ....
Here is an example of a common core math problem. Just reading this makes my eyes cross!
Or you just say 26+17 is 43. I'd fail. I never showed my work. I can only rslly do math in my head. Breaking it all apart confuses me but I'm a human calculator if you just let me be. Serioysly my wife has called me before to ask me to multiply or divide some ridiculous numbers because she didn't feel like looking for the calcuator.
Or showing work seems lije coukd be normal human language like 7+6=13. Put 3 at bottom carry the 1. 1+2+1 =4. Therefore 43. Not that comolicated to so it the way its been done for eons
Kandice wrote: "Tasha wrote: "oh wow! I never had that happen...luckily. ;)"How many children? I think even with one it's lucky not to have it happen ever!"
I only have 2 so I guess my odds are pretty good. haha ;)
With common core in PA, I am SO happy we homeschool. We do math the old fashioned way here and use calculators...it has worked for me and works for my kids. We're not all that interested in changing it to a more convoluted way. ;)
It's a joke, my older son who was in AP calculus last year and his friend who goes to UCLA and is majoring in Applied Mathematics couldn't figure out some of my sixth grade son's math work, what?
It really makes no sense. I hear so many stories of kids crying over homework and parents not being able to help. I just don't understand why it has to be that way.
Oh wow. I'm going to have a chat with my friends and old colleagues who used to travel around Aus teaching maths to remote and rural Australian kids. They were all about making maths fun, but used to sit in the office giving each other (and us around them) more and more complex maths problems. I want to see what they have heard, and I may pinch your example KimeyDiann.
I have read that homework both have an important function in learning and are absolutely useless. I have no idea who is right and who is wrong, but I just wish they didn't exist... I admit that doing homework with my kids keeps me more informed about what they are doing at school, but it's not enjoyable for anyone... It would be better to use the time to read with them, for example. Sometimes is necessary to help them with flash cards, multiplication facts, capitals, etc., and it makes sense to help them at home with that. There are some long term projects that are interesting to do at home, it raises interesting conversations about the topic, and doing them at home probably gives the kids more time and space for creativity., but I would leave homework only for who and when it's necessary. In a regular basis are just painful.
KimeyDiann wrote: "Here is an example of a common core math problem. Just reading this makes my eyes cross!"
This is not the way my kids are learning math, thanks God! Who could get a child interesting in this?!?!?!
They are changing the SAT test to reflect the common core next year, just another little FYI.
Yes, that's what I read yesterday when I was trying to figure out the common core was.
My kids do common core and the teachers and parents all hate it. My son is good at math, but like yours Travis isn't good at explaining. He struggles with this. It is hard for me as a parent because this is not how I learned so it makes it hard to help him. The whole regrouping stuff with subtraction just seems to make things harder.
Thanks for the explanation. The math problem is so complicated that way!
I just had a chat to Lexx about this, who is much more mathematically minded than me. He said that he has come across that before. He's response is it is a great way to get the concept of maths across to some people, as a different learning tool, or way to explain the principle. He's seen it done in his advance maths extended classes to help some kids who think in certain ways get the problem. However, he said that example has overcomplicated it somewhat (and reworded the question and I got it). And like all learning methods, it doesn't work for everyone. So I'm a little bit more sympathetic, it's just not how we all learnt maths, but may have helped some of us more if we had learnt that way.But i will never forget looking at my little brother's homework when he was in yr7 and I was in yr 11 and going crossed eyed. No idea what on earth they were learning.
Am i weird that i understood that problem description? I see it as just another way of adding it together. We all learn differently i guess and this may work for some kids but not others. There is a little story i've heard about a monkey, a fish and a sheep (i think) and they are all tested in how well they can climb a tree. Obviously the monkey nails it and the others fail. Personally, i don't think tests and exams show how intelligent you are just how good you are at exams and regurgitating information. I also think we have way too many exams throughout school years.
Exactly. That's why I like the school system where I live in Aus. Continuous assessment over 2 years, everything is elective so you can choose what you're interested in (although you can't get into certain uni courses without prereqs) and for as long as you want. Only your top subjects count (depending on what amount of majors and minors you take), and you take a couple of standardised tests in yr 12 to weight you and your school and you all get moderated out, teachers also from around the state moderate their marking every term together. Also, gives flexibility for your worst semester to be weighted less, so if you have something happen or get over excited, it doesn't count too much.That's if you want a uni score. Otherwise you can take classes that just gets you your yr 12 Cert. Or if you want to take a trade, you can do classes at school that count towards your apprenticeship and also count towards your yr 12.
Due to the flexibility and no major exam at the end of year 12 that counts for 70% of your university admission mark and tests on over 2 year worth of material, we have 98% of kids completing yr 12, and a lot less 17-18 year olds killing themselves over school stress.
I suck at exams. If I had to sit in another system that meant that I sat 6+ exams that tested 2 years worth of knowledge and if I screwed them up I couldn't go to uni, I would have been one of those kids.
Are you around 18 years old in year 12 Rusalka?It sounds great, with the assessment over 2 years and no major tests at the end. I do wonder though, from what age do you start taking the rigth majors and minors to get into your desired uni education? I mean, if you're only 14 or so, isn't that very young to already know what you want when you're 18? I know that if I had to choose something now, knowing what else is out there and where my interests lie and how hard it is to keep a job in the academic world, I might have chosen something completely different. Anyway, I think 18 is also very young to make such important decisions.
I didn't do great at A levels - I ended up dropping one so only ended up with two and they weren't great grades. I didn't go to uni then, mainly because my crap teachers told me I wouldn't be able to so I did a modern apprenticeship. that didn't work out so I went back to college and did a national diploma. it was graded differently and put more weight on the work you did throughout the year. it was by no means easier. I ended up getting distinctions in every subject and I went to a good university after that. Sounds like I would have been well suited to your education system Rusalka. I am so pleased I am out of school. I love learning and I actually like coursework and research but I like now that I get to choose what I study and when.
We had to make choices for our gcse subjects at 14, although I think only 4 were choices, the rest were compulsory. Then if we decided to stay on for a levels we chose the next set of subjects at 16, generally 3. I never knew what I wanted to do and I found it difficult to choose. If I could go back (shudders at the thought) I'd do different subjects.
Common core is EVIL! I'm so glad it wasn't around when I was in school, either! In some math classes, we had to show our work when we carried the one or whichever number..then in algebra if we showed our work but got the answer wrong (maybe we forgot the negative sign) our teacher at that time would still give up half a point for showing the work but didn't fully dock us just because we forgot the negative sign :)...on a test though he would fully dock us though...because hey! It's a test :)
Sarah wrote: "Am i weird that i understood that problem description? I see it as just another way of adding it together. We all learn differently i guess and this may work for some kids but not others. There is ..."My husband gets common core too but he agress that it's not for everyone. In fact, he says his brain actually works like that when adding/subtracting. For me, I think the problem here is changing it up and expecting everyone to change too and expecting everyone to get it right. As you said, Sarah, everyone learns differently and it seems that schoold (at least in my experience) expects that each child should/can learn the same way and that creates stress and problems. Actually, I have a big problem with there being only one way to learn that is right: what, when and how...I guess that's why we homeschool. ;)
I feel standardized testing is also not a fair assessment as not everyone can take a test well, even those who are considered 'smart'. I think it's a bad way to test knowledge. I think it's also a tool for schools to get more funding so there is more than just kids 'smarts' going on.
Rusalka, I always think that Aus is probably an amazing place to live and your description of the schools there sounds so much better than ours here in the states. I would probably still home school but who knows? I love that there is more learning freedom there.
The system I went through is only in the ACT and Tasmania, Tasha. Unfortunately the other states have the HUGE exams I was talking about. So if you come here, then look at those too ;) I love Canberra, and visiting Tassie. Kat's a Tassie girl so she can talk that one up more.Def sounds like it was more up your alley Sarah. Most people's really. A levels sound nasty. I have a friend looking at them for her PhD and they don't sound fun.
Yrs 11 and 12 Peggy, so you're 16-18 depending on when you were born. The prerequisites are only English for all courses, and Maths if you want to do a Science. Some Science subjects recommend College level of the subjects (mainly the big 3, bio, chem and physics) but not required. So not a huge deal.
I took Maths in case I wanted to do a Science degree (so got me into a Psych one). English you had to make a INCREDIBLY good case to get out of.
My best friend in school did, and got a University Admission Score of 98/100 (the score for vets and doctors). She did a minor (a year) of English, argued out of the second year, and majors in Art, Ceramics, Textiles and Fashion. She topped the State every trimester (my school did them but the only one) in those 4 courses, went straight into a fashion design degree, topped that and is now a designer. If she hadn't had the drive or the passion or the talent to do that, she wouldn't have been allowed to drop English. But the system allows you to do that if you want and the advisers back you up.
Tasha, re homeschooling, it seems to depend on the parents. Most people I know who home school or were home schooled, get sent to school for yr 10-12. You have to have a yr 10 certificate to be slightly employable, and i know most parents make a choice that it's better the kids go to school for that year than them having to jump through the bureaucratic hoops for it. Year 12 cert is even more important, and I haven't heard anyone who didn't go through a school who got one. Distance education is a way around that system if you are remote enough, but I wouldn't be wanting to deal with the education boards as a parent.
In the ACT, most of the public schools out perform the private. The top 3 every year for year 12 are the two really expensive private ones (like $25 000 per year), and my college which was public. Just depends on the year which one is number one. So my parents paid $150 per year for me to go to the top public school (my years the top) in the State. Really well resourced, and you had that freedom to do what you wanted to study, with lots of extra teacher support. Some of my friends where ex-home schooled kids, and they said it was a complete no brainer for their parents, and then they could go to uni if they wished.
We aren't planning on moving out of the states, although I would LOVE to with how things are going here, but if I did/could I always say how it would be Australia! Although europe would be nice too but I think I like your area there, Rus. What is ACT? Well, at least if I ever DO move down your way I have an idea of what areas to avoid. ;)
Really well resourced, and you had that freedom to do what you wanted to study, with lots of extra teacher support. Some of my friends where ex-home schooled kids, and they said it was a complete no brainer for their parents, and then they could go to uni if they wished. Sounds good! I really would love to move down your way. ;)
It's the freedom of learning that really appeals to me. That's one of the reasons we chose to have our kids home from school.
ACT = Australian Capital Territory. That's where I live. It's the area around and including the capital city, Canberra. Not technically a state, but one of the 2 territories in Aus (6 states, 2 territories).
I have to say, I've had a very positive experience with the public school system, until this common core stuff came about last year. My older kids have done very well, but they are very academic, and the school system is geared towards those who are very academic. My oldest son he just graduated high school only took one elective course throughout high school ceramics, everything else was academic, and baseball because he played a sport. He tests extremely well and is going to UC San Diego in September with 6AP test in his pocket, my daughter will be applying to colleges in the fall, my youngest son just isn't quite as academic as his older siblings and now common core, so he isn't even learning things the same way as brother and sister did, as far as homeschooling I don't have the personality, nor do my kids for that,:-) The way they do things in Australia sounds absolutely fantastic! Not everyone is meant to go on to higher education, but that is the entire focus on the public school system in California at least.
Rusalka wrote: "Oh wow. I'm going to have a chat with my friends and old colleagues who used to travel around Aus teaching maths to remote and rural Australian kids. They were all about making maths fun, but used..."
That is just one of the first images I found when I googled common core math. There are tons of other examples.
I actually think some of the common core math principles are really great and would have actually helped me in school tremendously. But some, like the example above, confuse the crap out of me!
A lot of the common core math principles help teach how to do math in your head, which is something I have never been able to do. I can't do simple addition and subtraction in my head much less complicated multiplication and division. Now that I'm an adult I blame it on my lack of short term memory. If I don't write it down, I forget what I have already calculated. I remember trying to learn the multiplication tables in grade school. I really struggled with that because it was basically memorization. I hated math back then.
I took an accounting class in highschool and the teacher was a lot like me when it came to the inability to do math in her head. She gave me confidence to pursue accounting as a career path. I like numbers, but the pressure the school system put on you back then, and even more so now, to do things a certain way made me feel dumb.
I think common core is great for some students like others have said. Not great for others. I think the system is trying to simplify things for educators who can have up to 45 students in a class. Teach them all the same way, but that simply does NOT work!Like I said, I am so, so glad we are almost finished with public education for our children.
And that is the biggest problem, if they teach you a certain way and that is not the way you learn, and then you feel like you are dumb, that is in a Norma's problem! A couple times last year my youngest would be sitting at the table doing homework, just saying I'm so dumb, this is so heartbreaking as a parent. Because he isn't him he's in honors classes his brain just doesn't work the way they wanted to.. The problem I always had with math is people that teach math get math, I needed a teacher who didn't get math like I didn't ;-)
It seems to me that common core is the pendulum swinging to the extreme on the other side. It seems that those who drive the educational system recognize that people learn by various means. Instead of developing a model that encourages that, they are now implementing common core which forces children to learn the one way. The old way didn't work for everyone, and the new way won't either. They're still missing the mark.
But this is not the teachers choice, and my kids have had absolutely amazing teachers, and they have to go with all this and learn themselves how to do this an entirely different way :-) so although I really don't care for common core, I'm still a big advocate for the public school system, my kids have had an amazing experience, but I also am aware I'm very lucky.
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