MeerderWörter’s Comments (group member since Jan 08, 2016)

MeerderWörter’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

santerro wrote: "the 4th generation was quite still until the arrival of Emma"

Well, sometimes things need to be ignited. And from time to time, a person who is the definitionmaker is needed:)

I'm very much on the "every little step should be acknowledged after all, right?" side. My grandma had to ask my grandpa whether he allowed her to work (and that was because of a law in this not very feminist state of Austria, it pisses me off so much right now). Rape in the marriage was only outlawed in Germany in 1997, the year I was born!

The Gender Pay Gap in Austria is around 20 per cent, of which 60 per cent cannot be explained (such as different jobs, part-time, full-time, if it's a women's job or a men's job).
So, we have a long way to go, but that shouldn't mean we shan't celebrate the victories we made, such as the vote.

I think that is definitely below the belt's line, as a German saying goes. (And yeah, it refers to a man's body).

Free speech protects you from persecution by the state, it does NOT mean that we can just say anything we want without being critizised.

It's really, really sad, and shows just how much more work needs to be done!

Georgios wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Secondly, I don't want Emma to become a second Gloria Steinem - she doesn't need to. I just wish she is someone who, in her eighties, can also say that she was an important vo..."

I never said that I want Emma Watson to become Gloria Steinem. If that's how my posts were read, I'm sorry, it was not what I had intended.
I just think that Emma might become a feminist that is as inclusive as Gloria Steinem. Maybe she does not, maybe she drops it all. It's her choice, decisions she has to make.
But is it really so bad to wish that someone becomes as inclusive as Gloria Steinem? I don't think so.

And no, I don't want to become a second Gloria Steinem. I can fight my own fight. We all choose our battle fields, and these may differ from person to person.

And I'm not a couch warrior.

Winston wrote: "I'd also like to add an idea of Intersectionality here. Very little WoC represented in Hollywood, particularly outside their own circles.

A Bechdel test where two WoC interact?

What about MoC bei..."

It's the next logical step, I think. It only needs to be promoted. Especially in the US, which is such a mixed country, that should be mandatory.

Winston, maybe there'll be a Winston test one day:)

Florence wrote: "Attendez moi ! Je vais commencer à lire ce maintenant haha :)

Wait for me ! I will start to read this book just now haha :)"

You still have time until the end of June, so don't worry, we'll finish it in time:)

Monica wrote: "I finally got my hands on the book from the library. They have it labeled as "Fantasy" which I find rather odd. I understand dystopian fiction or maybe speculative fiction, but fantasy struck me as..."

Fantasy?! For real? I mean, I'm not far into the book yet, but that's not fantasy... That librarian who put it there, for a word please.

Georgios wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Oh, I totally agree with you. And Gloria Steinem is maybe more progressive than some of the young folks (TERFs...). You know, I think Emma has potential to become a second Glo..."

Sorry for assuming that you know what TERF means - I was just too much absorbed into the discussion and sometimes I happen to overassume that others know what I know. Sorry for that. I sometimes get carried away when I type here!

Secondly, I don't want Emma to become a second Gloria Steinem - she doesn't need to. I just wish she is someone who, in her eighties, can also say that she was an important voice of 21st century feminism.

You tried talking to some radical feminists? Wow, that's exhausting, I guess.
I think that feminism was at least enriched by the diversity and approach of intersectionality. I was told that from a sociological point of view, intersectionality is the best theory/view of/on the society we live in from a contemporary perspective.

No one is free until all of us are free!

How do you see this as appropriation? I mean, we didn't steal anything, did we?

Ross wrote: "Well she is already committed and active Georgios listen to her MTV acceptance speech.

onward and Upward :)"

Uh, and she totally smashed the sex binary in that one. Good girl!


I do think that because of the advanced technology there is a shift in ideology, because it is demanded by many to be so more inclusive. At least half the feminists I follow on Twitter are intersectional feminists and demand that feminism also needs to listen and take care of disabled, poc, trans* and other marginalized groups of women. And that needs a different talk, a different attitude and a different way of thinking altogether. So, while the second and third wave and first wave were more different than the third and fourth, I still think it is legitimate to speak of a fourth wave.

Georgios wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "You can't compare Emma with Gloria, who is now in her eighties and had way more time to understand and think about the issues that are at stake."

May I also point out somethi..."

Oh, I totally agree with you. And Gloria Steinem is maybe more progressive than some of the young folks (TERFs...). You know, I think Emma has potential to become a second Gloria in her own way.

Ross wrote: "Odd thread this not sure I would want my progress as a feminist put up for scrutiny. But mods have left it so...

Emma is a brilliant. feminist I'd one measures by results. She will I am sure conti..."

How we both say just Emma tho:) She's my Emma to me, the one I literally grew up with. Feels weird to put a Watson after Emma:)

Hm, shall I really answer that question? I guess it's rather long than short, I hereby begin:

Emma's moves are seen quite controversial by some. They say she's a white feminist and that she's not really a feminist at all.
I DON'T think so.
You can't compare Emma with Gloria, who is now in her eighties and had way more time to understand and think about the issues that are at stake.
In my opinion, Emma Watson, a very privileged person, makes quite a good job. She unites us all in our struggle for equal rights and is not transphobic, which is VERY important to me. While she still has her fields which she has to discover and further learn about, she is not a person who is saying it's easy, and she nevertheless doesn't step back. She fights for her rights and the rights of others, invited men to feminism, which is something I really appreciate and she also has given us all an opportunity to learn more when she founded this book club, which I visit on a daily basis and has taught me so much yet. I heard that she reads a lot of the comments and if she does, that makes her only better as a feminist, because the demographic of OSS is rather diverse and therefore one can learn even more.
She sees beyond - feminism is for men and women and she knows that and acknowledges that men are too harmed by the social norms, if by varying degrees.
Her book choices have been covering many different issues, from a MOGAI perspective like The Argonauts, to a muslim perspective like Persepolis.
While Emma made it "cool" to be a feminist, she also reminds us again and again that we really need to work towards equal rights, we mustn't decorate ourselves with the term and then do nothing for it.
To warm up the Vanity Fair cover shoot, where I'd like to refer you to the topic Gerd mentioned, in which I have discussed too, my answer is as simple as that. First, she wasn't even bare-chested, secondly, feminists who make a fuss about that really need to think about what feminism means. If feminism means that a woman has the freedom to choose, then this is very feminist. She chose to make a photo shoot where she showed a bit more skin than she usually does, and suddenly everyone complains? That's not feminist if one does that. I can not better say it than Emma herself, so I allow myself to quote her here:
"Feminism is not a stick with which to beat other women with".
PERIOD!
When it comes to Beauty and the Beast, which by the way I really enjoyed very much, what people are getting at is the Stockholm Syndrome question. It may seem to be Stockholm Syndrome at first sight, but in fact it isn't Stockholm Syndrome. Now, I would still say it is a dysfunctional romance, but that is worth another topic.
(https://www.bustle.com/p/the-beauty-t...)

Overall, Emma chose feminist characters, from her most famous role of Hermione to now Belle in Beauty and the Beast. All of her characters show different qualities in women and girls, and almost all of them are positive.
She needs to learn more tho when it comes to intersectionality in my opinion. Or maybe she did already but she needs to speak out more on it. She wore an ampersand, the "logo" of the GLAAD - Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation - and while some wonder what she might want to tell us with that act, for me, it's great because she showed us that day that for her, LGBTQA people are worthy, and need the same respect as everyone else.
Now, where I think she really needs to educate herself on is intersex, but that is a very vast topic, and I think she'll come around it in the coming years.

Elise wrote: "I, personally, do believe that oppression can be institutionalised and if Google it there will be hundreds of articles that come up which explain this further. Obviously, having not long turned six..."

I'd be very careful with the word "all", and especially when you are as young as we are and still need to learn a lot. (I'm 20).

I also think that men can be feminists, because feminism is the belief of the social, economic and political equality of the sexes. And that includes all sexes, not just females.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...

Adam wrote: "Ross wrote: "Beauty and the Beast Belle teaches the girl to read. in both spirit and fact of the test it passes."

BATB: Two women get a couple of minutes of "alone" screen time, while the "Beast" ..."

"but" a very interesting idea and concept!

Now what I have discovered here is nothing but gross, no shocking suits more!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/op...

In most Federal States of the US there isn't even an age floor for marriage.

Please tell me I misread something in there!

Robert wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Chiming in that very important topic, I'd like to say a few lines:

I think the differentiation between "freedom to" and "freedom from" is very important. It's also inherently..."

Thank you for summing up in short what took me much more space to explain:)

Chiming in that very important topic, I'd like to say a few lines:

I think the differentiation between "freedom to" and "freedom from" is very important. It's also inherently feminist.

My thoughts to explain this a little further:
In a feminist society we have the freedom to bond with whomever we fall in love with, regardless of gender or sex. We also have the freedom to choose our personal pronouns, among many other issues, such as surgeries that harmonize our sex with our gender.
We have the freedom to be respected, regardless of race, sex, gender or sexual orientation.

But in a feminist society we also have the freedom from different issues. We have the freedom from derogatory remarks. We have the freedom from harmful surgeries, which originate from harmful gender expectations. In a feminist society we would also be free from hate crimes in general, such as racism.

I could go on with that list, but these are the issues that I really want to see tackled. I don't say these are the only ones, but for me they are very important.

While the freedom to is a choice, the freedom from is a granted right in my opinion. But I don't think that the freedom from group is always larger than the freedom to group, although this might hold true in many cases.

Sascha wrote: "Keith wrote: "In a nutshell - the first iPhone, Android development, launch of Twitter and world-wide 3G coverage.

Social Media like Facebook and MySpace were very popular, but it needed the devel..."

With all the technical devices that are now available, we have a much more diverse feminist movement. It's way easier to make yourself heard, especially if you're not a hetero, cis, white, middle-class, able-bodied woman.

For me, this book is really difficult to read because I'm used to read from an oppressed point of view/indifferent point of view. Now, that in this book I wouldn't be a Handmaid makes it not the easiest to read for me, because I'm not used to have "privilege."

But then, does anybody in this book have really privilege? I don't think so.

Robert wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Robert wrote: "Tuka wrote: "I just have a question to the public or to anyone who is reading this: is Emma's idea of feminism (which according to her equality among all) inclu..."

Well, it would have been rude to not address Tuka's question, and I don't want to be rude to OurSharedShelfers.
Tuka, I didn't address you directly, because I don't live in the US, but in my opinion, living there is enough to make an important contribution. Go for your dreams!