MeerderWörter’s Comments (group member since Jan 08, 2016)

MeerderWörter’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Ross wrote: "What is the intent of a joke to make laughter and cheer people. Or to prove some supposed superiority over another person or group chose which and who you want to be."

I definitely go for the first one! The second one is aweful!

Ross wrote: "Freedom is an illusion until someone takes it away from abstract concept to stark reality."

We only know our freedoms when they are being taken away. Or at least that's how we discover most of them. Only when they are taken away we begin to cherish most of them.

Caroline wrote: "I have finished the book and am now watching the tv series. Maybe it is because I am older (56) but I find the actions of some of the women, more offensive than of the men. The brutal treatment of ..."

This book is so dense to read, and I can only read bits and bits, because it is so shocking what Offred has to witness.

Ines wrote: "I think examples like the setting of this book are especially terrifying because we have to acknowledge that governmental structures have historically created much more equity and higher quality of..."

YES, that is where we need to go! A democracy is only as strong as the participation of the people.

I think sexist jokes are never okay. How can a joke that reduces you solely to your sex/gender be okay?
Now, I don't like jokes that much in general, because they almost always turn out to be harming a certain group of people. I don't say all do, but they have a strong tendency to do so.

When it comes to coping-mechanisms, that is a different issue tho. And while outstanders might not get the jokes, they are very important for the ingroup.

So, it's me again.
I don't know if this really fits in here, but I don't know where else to put it.

If there is another place, moderators feel free to put it there.

Homeless people and how they treat their periods:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABch4...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue6a5...

Because it's always the best to listen to the people experiencing it!
Asexuality!

Georgios wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Kudos to that. It was my friend who is three younger than I am, when she was 14-15 she taught me so much about gender identity that I haven't heard from anyone else. Like, she..."

Believe me, I fight battles you haven't even heard of. And no, I won't tell you about them.

Ross wrote: "Age does not determine knowledge or value to a particular subject, experience and character do.

"it's not the years but the mileage"
-Indiana Jones"

Kudos to that. It was my friend who is three younger than I am, when she was 14-15 she taught me so much about gender identity that I haven't heard from anyone else. Like, she set me on the feminist road.

Okay, let me think:)
Well, you can always follow the guidelines of the Vienna Statement or the Darlington Statement for allies.
Then of course you can ask your local advocate group, of which there are many around the globe.
Of course, it would make a lot of things easier if we all would more or less go along the lines of: Hi, I'm (name) , and I go by these pronouns, what about you?" Now, I know we can't do that right now, at least not out in the wild, but that's where I would actually like our society heading towards.
Also, if a child is born, don't ask whether it's a boy or a girl, because that is wrong on more than one level.
Acknowledge that intersex people can have any sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression, just like everyone else.
Acknowledge the Intersex Awareness Day on October 26, and the Intersex Day of Solidarity/Rememberance on November 8. Don't make it about yourself, but remember that there are more than two sexes. If you know an intersex person, you might congratulate them, but that depends on how they view that, I can imagine that some of them don't want to be reminded of it, as there is still a lot of shame surrounding it.
Also, you can read books about it:
Middlesex (which I read and found rather interesting at age 17-18)
Golden Boy which I read so fast like no book before.
You can all watch the videos of Emily Quinn and Pidgeon on Youtube, although I might give you a warning that they are rather difficult to watch, at least when you are a survivor of IGM.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Emilord
https://www.youtube.com/user/pidgejen
And yeah, to quote Emily:
"It takes a lot of balls to talk about this"
And then, learn a lot!
Research AIS, CAH and all things intersexy:)
Oh, and as a closing statement:
Some girls don't get their period, and some boys do. Please think about that when you talk to other people. Because you never know whether the person you're interacting with is dyadic or intersex.
Oh, and the I does not stand for invisible:)

That was quite a bit, so, see you later:)

Emma wrote: "I have to say that I really enjoyed reading your twitter thread. I really agree with you - these attitudes you mentioned can be/are really harmful! And it is a problem that not many dyadic people r..."

Nah, that's why I'm talking about it.

Ross wrote: "This is a complex question the decision parent make for their children is involved, personal aspirations, cultural forces; powerful enough to result in extremes like "honor killing" have now been j..."

In Pakistan it is actually seen as less worse to kill your intersex child than to have a stillbirth. And as long as people are literally killed for their variation in sex characteristics I think we have a VERY long way to go.

Like, even the UN is stepping in and calling it intersex genital mutilation! And these are decisions that have long-lasting effects, and are mostly irreversible. The Special Rapporteur on Torture, the people from the Convention of the child, CEDAW, they have all stepped in.
It's a huge problem... nah, it's not easy to think when you have to believe you're the only one in the world, especially when you are told this all the time by doctors.

Robert wrote: "I think that society’s “Normality” or whatever a person’s particular definition of that is, is different for all.
But fortunately or unfortunately however way you want to look at it there is essen..."

:)

I totally agree with you on your view about "normality", and that normal is something different for everyone of us.
And as you said, depending on the usage, it can be used in a discriminatory or insulting way. Sadly I had to experience this quite a few times already:(

Uh, the intersex issue is so multi-layered. But yeah, surgery is the biggest problem. Because it literally forces the individuals into a sex binary that doesn't exist anyways. And if you have to take HRT for the rest of your life really, that's not pretty:(

I read Golden Boy, this 343 pages book in FOUR days, the fastest I have ever read a book. I read until 3 am or so, although I had an exam the next day (and I still got an A on that exam, I don't know how I did that:) )

You could have written something longer.... but that's up to you.

And I love my closing statement of Alice Domurat Dreger, she's the author of Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex, and that book just taught me so much:) (Like, the "age of the gonads" did a lot of harm to intersex people, I think, but more on that later, if anyone's interested)

Now, since Twitter gives me a hard time:


Thread about expectations on a newborn:
Thinking a lot about the expectations the society I live in puts on new-borns. Slow change is happening, but we still have a long way to go.

Let's start with a few:
When a child is born, we expect it to be:
heterosexual
heteroromantic
allosexual
dyadic
cisgender
able-bodied
mentally healthy
With every adjective that I listed comes privilege. Also, you cannot choose any of these. They are a part of who you are!

Everything's okay as long as you conform to the expectations, which reminds me that gender-nonconforming people are also seen as somewhat odd.
Let's break this down a bit: I think everyone knows what heterosexual means, and everyone who isn't might get to hear: You're confused... Or: It's just a phase (believe me, six years is a bit long for a "phase") Or: That's unnatural. About "unnatural": look into nature, she'll tell you otherwise. (Reminds me of one of my favourite German songs, because that one...
simply destroys heteronormativity:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1zaK...

Now, heteroromantic is like heterosexual, but focuses on our romantic orientation. It stems from the concept that we can be attracted to
people differently. Maybe we are homoromantic but heterosexual? Many options here:) Or homoromantic but asexual? Everything possible:)

Which brings me to the next issue my society has a problem with: We are expected to be allosexual, which is the opposite of asexual.
But then my thoughts are: First, whose business is that anyways? And secondly: If an individual doesn't want to have sex and doesn't even feel the need to do it? Why are we making a fuss about it?

Brings me to the next listed adjective: dyadic. Now, that word is not used really often, but I figure we need a word to talk about people who aren't intersex. We can't always refer to them as "not-intersex". Won't work out in the long run. Now, intersex can be described as " a person whose primary and secondary sex characteristics cannot be classified as what society perceives as either male or female".
Which includes a lot of variations:) There are women with XY chromosomes and men with XX chromosomes, because if nature loves anything... it's diversity. Sadly, my society does not, and these individuals are normally subjected to cosmetic "normalizing" surgeries, and you might think: So what? But it's not as easy as that. The surgeries performed on them are equatable with FGM in a hospital setting, and totally disrespect human rights.
Here are two statements that reflect what I'm talking about:
https://oiieurope.org/statement-1st-e...
https://oii.org.au/darlington-statement/
Now, intersex is not the same as transgender, because intersex people are born this way while transgender people are dyadic:) Don't confuse! the two. One could also say that intersex people fight against the surgeries that trans people do want. Which is why there was much hate in earlier years. It's not easy for traumatized people to understand that another person would want what has been done to them. But let's move on!

Brings me to cisgender people: Cisgender is the opposite of trans, just that we're all on the same wave here. What I heard more than once from trans people is that they don't choose to be trans. Imagine you identify as a woman but are trapped in a male body. That can't be easy. They just wish to have been born in the body that resembles their gender identity.
And this is why it pisses me off when radical feminists say they are women disguising as men. Because that is far from the truth.
It also pisses me off when people claim an identity of a certain group of people they don't belong to. It's racist to claim you are a Hijra or Two-Spirit unless you belong to the respective societies.
And these are not the only societies that know people who we Western people would call trans.

Brings me to able-bodied people: Able-bodied people are so privileged, and some comments I have heard towards disabled people are just vile.
I watch a lot of videos of vlogging disabled youtubers, and I have learned so much. What they have to deal with from society is often simply unbelievable for me. How can people not simply mind their own business and stop spewing hate.
They have it hard enough as it is already, and then people spew hate? I can't understand that:( And this narrative of "love heals your disease" is really not working out. It won't heal your nerves, for example, or let grow an organ that didn't grow in the first place.

Which brings me to mental health. Love will not heal your mental health, not when medicine can't either. It makes me sick when I think that people who struggle with their mental health get advice that they know of themselves all the time or "advice" where the person didn't do any research and just blurts out any advice that might actually harm them in the end. And it's not a thing to say " oh, have you tried thinking
more positive?" Or" oh it's not that bad". The only person who can say how bad it is, is the person experiencing it. Period.


So, you see how much expectations we actually have at a newborn? Think about how likely it is that in at least one "category" they don't meet our experiences!

Very likely!



"Why not change minds instead of bodies?" Alice Domurat Dreger

Gerd wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "a dyadic person is therefore what in our society is seen as male or female."

Ah, I see, my dictionary gave me "meaning of two parts" and I was like "Huh, I'd prefer delivery ..."

HAHAHA! Bloody dictionary:) That made me laugh! No, don't worry, delivery in one part is totally fine::)

I agree with you that we do have good healthcare here in Europe, what I wanted to say with this tho is that there is often made a huge drama out of nothing. I don't say we shouldn't be concerned if it's severe, but sometimes they're just overreacting:(

Nah, maybe "new-born" is falling a bit-short. But you're right, it's none of the parents' business anyway and it always makes me cringe if I hear parents fantasize about future partners of their child. Uh yes, like, sexuality is always a hotbed between children and parents and it might be especially when they "fall out of the norm", whatever that norm is.

And that is something strange too. Like, my dad was asked maybe half a year ago when he'd become grandfather. Now, I'm 20 and it's like totally not on my mind at all.

I don't know, if I ever have children, I'd just wish them to have happy lives, and wouldn't think too much about their sexuality.
But yeah, it would be nice if they introduced someone to me (if I ever have them)
Nothing mea culpa from you, I don't read your comment as if you'd be pissed if they don't.

Sorry, I thought I had explained that well enough.
Well, here we go:
A dyadic person is someone who is not intersex.
And intersex can be classified as:
a person whose primary or secondary sex characteristics cannot be easily classified as to what society perceives as either female or male, including, but not limited to: chromosomes, gonads, hormones and anatomy

a dyadic person is therefore what in our society is seen as male or female.

And I agree with you, to hope for a person to be healthy is quite a normal thing to do, I just think we shouldn't expect it. Because if we expect it and it isn't the case we might make more of a drama out of it than necessary.

Now, I was thinking a lot about the expectations we put on a newborn in my society yesterday and it made me write this thread on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/Emma_Adorer/statu...
Now, you have to click on the tweet with the adjectives next, then the rest uncoils and you can go on. No idea why that is the case, Twitter is a bit strange lately.

I am just curious what you think about it:) I live in Austria and while I do have to say that we have made quite some progress in recent decades, we still have a long way to go in terms of how society views these matters. There are still so many people out there who cannot respect human diversity, and that makes me so sad.
If any of you think I have forgotten a group, please include it as well. I want this to be an as diverse topic as possible:)

DEBATE IS OPEN!

So, first things first!

While everyone should feel welcome to discuss in here and voice their opinion in a respectful way, I plead you all to read provided content and that you refrain from hurting anyone.

I want this to be a safe space for everyone who is not as privileged as others. I also want to remind everyone that for many of us, myself included, English is not our native tongue and therefore, we might have some difficulties understanding a certain comment. So please, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be, because doing otherwise helps no one.

I would also like to remind all of you that you try to post videos with captions, for our deaf or hearing-impaired members, if you can find one. Also, if there is an audio version somewhere, that would help our visually-impaired members a lot.

Last but not least, I say that everyone may comment here, and would love to see that happening. There is one last wish tho: If you don't belong to one of the groups of people that is being oppressed, listen to the people who do. They are the experts in that matter.

Ana wrote: "Hi everybody!

My, my, it's been crickets for a while here, right? My sincerest apologies about that, as the sole responsible of this project within the admin team. Ever since I moved abroad for w..."

Still on the battlefield, commander:) Anything new that we might translate?

Until:

"All was well."