Pam’s Comments (group member since Dec 29, 2016)

Pam’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Somantika wrote: "On many levels I find it offensive: first of all it really makes me feel that the person sees nothing in my other accomplishments. And, more than that, the person thinks I am so shallow that I can be pleased by such vacuous comments. "

I'm right there with you. I feel that using someone's appearance is the lowest common denominator. Which is fine, but people don't tell my male co-workers that they are handsome. They use action words: focused, organized, insightful. If we're trying to describe someone... I'll take more of those adjectives, please!

<3

Florian wrote: "Hello!

Favourite poem? Ouch... Difficult question, not easy to make a choice since I probably turn the corner of more than 50 pages to mark a poem that I love.

Therefore, before I copy a few sent..."

Feel free! Just make sure to include why you're referencing it.

Elle wrote: "I don't have a favorite but The Road Not taken by Robert Frost is beautiful."

Thanks Elle! I love that poem as well.

Did you get a chance to read Rudi Kaur's Milk and Honey? If so, which one of hers did you like?

"To be soft is to be powerful"

Kaur makes a lot of earlier nods to fire and water, elements that can be inviting but also terrible. Power that is raw, elemental. The idea then, after experiencing so much, that she still believes and sees softness as a virtue... is interesting.

And I'm curious as to what softness means here. There isn't an accompanying drawing or title to bias our thoughts. Does she mean soft of skin? Soft of heart?

Feel free to add your favorite poem from Milk and Honey here.


Also, what about it spoke to you?

Appreciate your response Jo! Thank you for keeping this in mind. And as always, for facilitating these dialogues between all parties.

From my review:

Moritamor te salutamus: For those about to die, we salute thee.

The tale of the Radium Girls is one that needed to be told. At ages 16 - 25, young women during the roaring twenties were lucky enough to have a job that offered you a stool to sit on, let alone working on something as high paying as a dial painter. Dial Painting required the girls to "point" the the tips of their paintbrush by putting it in their mouths and swirl. Lip, Dip, Paint. Ingesting fine amounts of radium with each stroke of their brush. Nothing to worry about, said the company leaders, as radium was the source of life and vitality, a wonder drug back in the day. 5+ years later, the once vibrant girls began to die off. And no one wanted to point the finger back at radium.

This is a David and Goliath story regarding human rights, workers rights, corporate oversight, and the inability to change or admit fault. The Girl's trials are now recorded in legal history and HR/ Safety manuals. Our own understanding of radium and atomic energy is due to these "shining" women.

But I question if Moore was the one who needed to write this tale. Her contribution is clunky and awkward. To be fair, this story wasn't about one person; there were many characters involved, many villains to lay the blame, and numerous points of reference. The breadth of her research is outstanding.

But that does not forgive Moore from creating a mismatch of ideas that would refute each other in the next sentence, leading statements that were unnecessary pointless jabs from the author, or the lack of creating the stage such as explaining how this silent generation who was just given the right to vote would be so cavalier and trusting. How dependent these women were on the system. etc. etc. And more the point, you never really get to know these women. Instead Moore explains to you a flitting detail of the woman's hair next to a string of five other women's hair colors, each one merrier and prettier than the last. At times Moore's Radium Girls read like a yearbook, no story save for the author's desperate attempt to describe a photo and differ it from the next photo. That's not a narrative!

This is a tale fit for the movies, so much plot, intrigue, and challenges to overcome that it practically writes itself. And yet, somehow, Moore still bungled it

Edit: 7.6.18 updated the rating because I am more upset about this after watching her video interview. 1) she only spent a few months on the book/play. But don't worry, cause she is a fast typer. And 2) Even her husband thought it was confusing. Her solution was to add a chart for the names up front, instead of writing cleaner copy or doing more research. Gah!

Terri wrote: "I guess I'm in the minority here. :(
I did not like this book. I loved the story and felt that it was a powerful story that needs to be told. But I didn't like the way the author chose to tell it...."

I felt the same Terri.

Sascha wrote: "I like this one!

White Privilege, Explained in One Simple Comic
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/..."

It's a simple cartoon, but it doesn't explain this concept very well in my personal opinion. I actually think the first factoid actually helps reinforce racism by saying more black people go to prison than white people. Which to those that are already racist, that proves that black people are "more dangerous, break the laws more often" proof that they should be locked away for the safety of our citizens.

No where does it say that black neighborhoods are X times more likely to be patrolled. Or that they are more likely to be pulled over for driving while black, or issued expensive tickets for simple misdemeanors.

Nope. Create your own thread

Nope. I want everyone here to be able to understand where you're coming from and for you to see where they are coming from.

Create a thread. We'll talk

No. Create your own topic.

Follow the rules associated for this Group and people will respond.

It always shocks me how in the States people are quick to call liberals "Snowflakes" (who is easily offended or felt they needed a "safe space" away from the harsh realities of the world) but then cry foul when shows like this come out.

If they watched it, they could potentially see so many individuals of differing opinions on the show.

That said, I'm ok with people demonstrating for their beliefs. People canceled Amazon subscriptions because they were protesting the NRA after the FL shooting. That is their right as consumers.

Also... in case you missed this one too... below is the link to our second book's interview. Reni Eddo-Lodge (Why I'm no longer talking to White People about Race) interviewed Angie Thomas (The Hate U Give)

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/....

Enjoy!

Chelsea wrote: "Very good points Pam! I did not really think in depth about Moore's narrative style, which I believe does not stay consistent through out the work - I thought she was trying to take a somewhat jour..."

Always! I am eager to talk about it. And welcome any of your opinions on the book too. And I agree with what you said about her tone. We got to know Catherine Donohue very well. But we also spent chapters understanding her determination to be heard.

To answer your question: I read the book before I saw the interviews, (Link below) If anything the interview solidified my opinion.

Link to the interview: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

There are 5 videos in total.

I am very appreciative that she took the time to answer our questions. And very happy that she reminded the world of the women's struggles. There is no denouncing that.

Zoé wrote: "Can't recommend the series enough! As far as I can tell, it does a pretty good job showing the different conflicts and point of views within the black community. Each episode focuses on a different..."

I second what Zoe said. I was impressed with ALL of the various points of view. Really helps to understand the breath of the conversation.

Paula wrote: "Pam wrote: "One of my complaints against Moore's telling of the Radium Girls was the lack of context. ... Why this was the first case that won against business for employee welfare. .."

It wasn't...."

Thanks for chiming in Paula. Glad you enjoyed the book.

Chelsea wrote: "Pam, thank you so much for all of this historical background! It was a wonderful read.

Just as a side comment, Kate Moore is from London, so that might be part of the reason there was not an in-de..."

Thanks Chelsea. This is purely my personal opinion. As such, I am reminded that not everyone is going to please everyone. Moore's book, just didn't do it for me.

Moore isn't a journalist. Her recollection to me read a lot like a bunch of notes set in chronological order as opposed to something that explained the reason of it's importance. Good history writers can offer you context with facts and make it read seamless (Mark Twain. Good journalists can also help you become mini experts in boring or confusing topics because they explain the story within the facts. Rust: The Longest War The Death and Life of the Great Lakes.

To me, Moore didn't know if she was writing a historical fiction or a nonfiction book.
- Moore opens the book with a narrative treatment of a girl's first day going to the plant.
- Her interview with OSS daid that she was trying to write the book from the girls perspective. And yet... Outside of who they were at the plant, we didn't here much about the girls. Shoot, Moore said in the same interview that there weren't just three Maggia daughters working the plant, but four. But one of them didn't push for the trial. If the girls stories were so important...why didn't we know about their life as sisters before the plant? Or even what it was like to have a sister who didn't push? Moore said she cut it because she had to save space... But it took less then a sentence for me to add and another one to have it lead into a transition into how hard it was for the women to step forward to put the blame on their company.
- Furthermore, she said in the same interview that her husband couldn't even tell the women apart and was confused. If your entire point of writing it was to explain who these women were and your own husband couldn't tell... Maybe Moore needed to rewrite?
-Moore's tongue in check nods or side commentary. 'They kinda had it coming" from chapter 25. These asides were unnecessary and over used IMPO. If she did her work to explain things throughly...then these notes wouldn't have been needed. To me, again, it's a sign that the prose isn't right enough. The old show don't tell writer rule.

But again... Totally my opinion.

As a final thought I do understand that Moore is from London, but this time is also a well documented era. For example: if we can trust British archeologist to tell us about Egyptian culture from thousands of years ago, I expect non-fiction writers to also give context to their work.

Sam wrote: "Look women already have equal pay, and equal oppurtunity even in Iran. Emma should be worrying more about what goes on in her own country some more. The murder rate in London just went up 44 percen..."

So that's a loaded statement, so let me see if I can address this Sam.

1) What power do you think Watson holds? Her formal education isn't in law enforcement or as a lawyer. It's in English literature. So it makes sense that she would lead an initiative in reading.
2) Watson's career as an actor takes her away from London more times than not, I'm sure. So I don't know what she can do actually at London. But while working, she can visit and work with people wherever she is. So it also makes sense that her reach is global.

I think it's commendable that as a public figure Watson has taken the stance of helping those people across the world on a topic she feels strongly about. Which happens to be feminism.

You mention there are much bigger problems then Feminism. And I would agree.

- sexual assault and rape. In which we still have headlines from the MeToo movement here in the States to places where young girls are gang raped and murdered .https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/05/wo...
- Human Trafficking: the kidnapping and enslavement of young girls. In 2014, for example, Boko Haram took more than 200 school girls. And that doesn't even touch the numerous of children (both boys and girls) in the sexual slave trade in Thailand or other locations. It's a 32 Billion dollars/yr industry
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/05/wo...
https://www.arkofhopeforchildren.org/...
- What about genital mutilation? Be it the sewing a cliterous shut in some old tradition of virginal purity to the prevelance of gonadectomies?
https://www.arkofhopeforchildren.org/...
- Bodily autonomy and the right for a woman to determine the rights of her body. The abortion conversation.
- The lack of diversity in media. Where are the poc writers? Where are the poc in the publishing world? Etc. https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...

Large topics all of these. And I personally believe that feminism gives us a lens to which to understand and talk about and act on all of these topics.

I recommend Sam that you stick around the forum. Look into these topics with us. Share articles and information. Help spread education and awareness on these topics that effect women and their rights. Learn with us.