Pam’s Comments (group member since Dec 29, 2016)

Pam’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

I listen to this podcast occasionally. The creator tells the tale, but does not get into the analysis of the work or reviews the cultural context in the podcast. But does do a write up in his show notes. He also takes a few liberties sometimes to justify means.

He is losing. His way of life is being threatened and therefore is lashing out in ways and blaming you and the other ladies. How and why, I couldn't say without learning more. (we all face internal battles that many do not know about - problems at home, problems with friends, problems with X Y Z)

But you keep doing what you can to be true to you. Keep excelling in school. Build strong relationships with mentors and leaders who can help you excel in your chosen profession. Get involved with on the job training (shadowing / internships). Continue to challenge yourself to be a better version of where you are now.

Briana wrote: "I always wondered IF married women gave in even if they wanted to keep their last name. I am not saying that has definitely happened, nor am I criticizing anyone, but I am generally curious, you know? ..."

Historically speaking, culture and society encouraged and enforced taking the man's name. Taking the name was a badge of honor and acceptance. To be married without would have made you a social pariah. Better to be a spinster, a witch, or a concubine than to have a husband but not take his name. I am sure there were some outliers, but feminism / industrialism has been changing the cultural significance of marriage contracts since before the 1900's

It was only recently that we have the capability to form marriages on the frivolous notion such as love - let alone to be the norm. See Jane Austen and the trials her noble heroines had to go through.

Kipahni wrote: "If you keep in mind she is cantadora it help explain her sometimes wordy style. The mind likes to hear things repeated in different ways so while you are reading it may seem tedious or redundant if.."

Great point Kipahni!

"Again: There are more books at a library."

Part of the goal is to also control the message. If you are at a library you have historical, research, poetry, genre, and a plethora of other sections and books to check out. By placing books in such a book free environment, you are decreasing the chances that someone will pick up something else. And thereby increasing the chance that your message will move beyond women's studies groups and book clubs.

Works the same as viral marketing. Market in places and ways that are not the norm and your message stands out bc there is nothing to compete with it.

Amanda wrote: " It is a work that is going to be quite dense and full of thoughts, emotions, and spiritual revelations. These, of course, are abstract concepts as a rule. This makes them more difficult to describe, which might be where some of the trouble comes in.."

100% agree.

This is not a book that you are going to be able to read straight through despite it being about fairytales or storytelling. It's an analysis. The author is going to try to come at you with different ways of understanding her intended goal - hence the repetition.

But as Ross said, you will become more familiar with her style as you progress. Keep going!

Many of the ones I wanted to list are already here! A few more that have not been mentioned, but still have a place on my book shelf - despite purges and moves!

Tamora Pierce
Melanie Rawn
Kristine Kathryn Rusch
Ursula K. Le Guin
Morgan Llywelyn

MeerderWörter wrote: "My question was this:
Do you think BatB helps gay people coming to terms with their sexuality/coming-out process? "

IMPO: BatB is not a gay rights movie. At least in the animated movie - LaFou was not out. His portrayal is a nod nod wink wink moment when you start to question why he has such strong allegiance to a person who does not treat him or others very well, but nothing was every confirmed. As a character though, he is a secondary villain who comes off as a floor mat who would do anything - morally questionable- for some prick who would openly hurt him.

So I am curious, is this the type of character you want helping people to come out? Is this character the hero you want to represent the culture?

And don't get me wrong, I applaud Disney for taking a stand. But LaFou is not a gay right's hero - imo- so much as a foil for Belle. Look what love can accomplish when it is reciprocated. Belle loves a beast of a person, but because he is willing to put her needs ahead of him and better himself, he can love her back. LaFou is in love with a beast of a man, but that man is not willing to love him back. This is less a story about being gay, and more about a story on how to love. To me, LaFou is a warning.

Why is this news?

This is their right not to pay for this movie. As is the right of their kids to watch this 5 years later to finally figure out what all the hype was and to learn that they really did or did not miss out on anything.

I'm curious to Imaan or any others who felt uncomfortable with the photo.

Has this discussion led you to new conclusions?
Has this discussion led you to feel more impassioned about your original ideas?

Imaan wrote: "Personally, I feel it's a stab in the back to feminism, showing women can only be empowered by taking off their clothes & that in order for women to advance in their career, they need to strip down"

I wouldn't do it myself. But I also do not have the same experiences /desires / goals as Emma. I agree with what Ross mentioned, that feminism is about a women's right to express herself.

I have! It's dense- but in a good way as it's chock full of nuance. I recommend starting as early as possible because you just want to chew on some passages- really explore the author's meaning and how it effects your life as well as your goals.

Grab a highlighter or tabs too because you will want to come back at various points in your life to reread passages.

And yes, I will be rereading it for OSS.

This is a great book! Very dense. Something that you want to chew on before jumping into the next chapter.

Well, my list just exploded. Thanks!

For a superhero graphic novel check out Catwoman, Vol. 6: Keeper of the Castle and Vol. 7 Inheritance by Genevieve Valentine.

Catwoman takes on the problems of Gotham by becoming a crime boss. Sounds silly, but it's a tour de force noir redemption story. Read it because Selina Kyle bases her reign on other notable female historical power players and keeps returning to what would they do in these politically taunt times and because it talks about women in power without getting preachy.

It suffers in Vol. 7 only because DC was trying to connect the Catwoman books with Batman saga playing out across 5+ other comics. Do you need to know what is happening in the DC universe - not so much. Do you need to know who Catwoman is... yes. I personally find it rewarding the a known secondary character not only has a successful reoccurring series title, but that this feminist voice was heard.

Imaan wrote: "Last year when I gave a presentation on Rosa Parks and even this year, when I talk about women in history, it seems not to be taken as seriously as it should. What are your thoughts on this? ."

I think it depends on where you gave your presentation and how often people have heard about the person.

For me, there are some heroes of history that we bring out every year like holiday ornaments, to be displayed and then tucked back away when we are done with them. Rosa Parks is one of those heroes, overused to such an extent that we don't need to dig deeper about her because her one action is so ingrained. As in the sky is blue, fire is hot, and Rosa didn't give up her seat. Ok. Done.

Now, if you wanted to talk to me about Dorothy Vaughan, Grace Hooper, or Edmonia Lewis... I am not familiar with these ladies and therefore will spend more time learning about them through you.

I look to others here for guidance, but I believe the argument for gender roles under patriarchy are reletively young. Where we are now, what fights we are fighting now have given us an understanding that women are not inherintly weak or delicate nor are men stoic and tough.

This distinction is evolving as is our awareness and conversation. So, continue to champion this for your boys. They can be nurses. They can be house husbands. They can emote. Teach them.

Laure wrote: "I believe they'll ("benefits" of being in a patriarchy) disappear once we reach true equality (that's not coming so soon, unfortunately)"

You and I, and probably most people here can readily agree with that because we are feminists. And we have decided that again, these "benefits" (in quotations because I don't believe in them) are not worth it in the long run.

But if we listen to the loudest critics of women's rights these are the things they are annoyed about the most. For example:

Why should a guy have to initiate and pay for the first meal: All of us seem to agree it's because it's an outdated practice that came about because women were not working, but men were.

Why can women cry to get out of a ticket / not have to go into war: Again this was because women were considered the delicate sex who couldn't handle these sorts of stress. And that it was a man's honor to defend his gal and keep her from this sort of harm.

But as the societal norms change (i,e, women going into the work force, etc) these social cues have not yet quite caught up. All women can work. But do the same numbers also initiate or pay for their dates? We as a society now understand that gender does not mean one vs the other parent will be the better caregiver, and yet we still have a court system that has a female bias.

So as feminists, are we championing the end to these products of patriarchy? As we continue to fight for justice, are these relics also being reviewed as being unjust?

Wendy wrote: "Not very long time ago, I had a conversation with an Italian friend of mine after a book club. He told me he cannot bear the terms ''feminism'' since he honestly thought the whole idea is women the..."

I, for one, have not done enough research to know how that has happened in the past. So I am curious to know if others have found that women sticking up for men against gender roles is a new facet to this day's feminism or if it has been happening for a while now.

I am a firm believer that part of being equal means that Women in general also need to come to understand our "benefits" of being in a patriarchy. Crying to get out of something (like a ticket), custody rights as a mother, staying home to raise the kid, asking a person out on a date, being in combat zones, etc. In a true equal playing field, will these go away and are we comfortable with doing so?

Yeah, it's not going to be a pretty picture.

When people begin talking about how Trump is not pro-life or pro-choice make sure to reference this action! We know that we have a hard enough job with a GOP controlled Congress, but do not let others forget or misunderstand that this is exactly why most pro-choice marched on Jan. 21 and were upset.

That said. MAKE SOME NOISE!

Contact your representatives and make sure they know why it's not kosher for those in developing nations to be devoid of reproductive health, but in the United States that will not be tolerated, Tell your representatives that we need to protect Roe v Wade even more and that we will not go back. Site Half the Sky. Site your experiences, just get out and start telling them.

Make it a standing tradition to call your Representatives (both state and federal) once (or more) a week!

Hi there!

There have been a lot of great answers to this. My two cents is to find one aspect that you yourself feel strongly about within the spectrum of women's rights.

:healthcare:
- reproductive health: Access to obygn, the abortion discussion as well as a women's right to contraceptives and birth control measures, misinformation being spread about pregnancy, etc.
-Health/ pain: bed rest over prescribed for women more than men, the bias nature of women's pain, access to birth control as a hormone supplement, Breast cancer vs Cervical Cancer, periods in general (can't you control your cycle like you control your bladder or like men control ejaculation?) etc.
- Maternal Rights: postpartum depression, paid maternal leave, the stigma of mothers in the work environment, breastfeeding, etc

:Rape culture:
- The rights of the rapists: low sentencing; concern of "their promising futures vs the victim"; potential parental right to children from rape cases; low number of rape kits being reviewed;
- The stigma for victims: "what were you wearing" conversation, lack of clothes for women after they finish filing out police reports regarding their rape, the overabundance of rape in mainstream media, over sexulization of black/ latina women
- Porn / Sex Workers: Objectification of women in mainstream media, stereotyping of black / latina women by their sexuality; "A Women's place"/ Prostitution as something to save people from vs a choice; the high number of human trafficking, porn fantasy vs real world relationships, etc

: Working Women:
- Career + Kids: Career vs Childbearing stigmas, having a house hubby, maternal /paternal paid leave, returning to the workplace after having a child; access to child care at your work place, etc
- Ladies in the Industry: Equal pay, sexual harrasment, women in construction or male dominated industries, Men Only restrictions, the glass ceiling, etc

And so on. What aspect of being a feminist interests you the most?