Pam’s Comments (group member since Dec 29, 2016)

Pam’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Awesome! Lookimg forward to reading

Ross wrote: "is this identity progress. A success for intersectional thinking "

Going back to the topic. I wanted to unpack your sentence. @Ross, are you asking a question or a declaring a statement?

Is this identity progress? Is this a success for intersectional thinking?

or

This is identity progress. This is success for the intersectional thinking.

Ross wrote: "Jan Morris wrote about her life in Times supplement. an early adopter trans person she now describes herself; "I haven't gone from one sex to the other. I'm both"

is this identity progress. A su..."

Context: "She wrote Conundrum, published in 1974, about the experience. It is a remarkable book, free of angst or bile, that explains in a gentle, matter-of-fact way why she felt her body did not match her sex. It is also very generous towards people who would have found it awkward — she writes of the “kindly incomprehension of sailors and old ladies”.

It is a subject that I suspect she is heartily bored with talking about. She certainly floats high above the present, often bad-tempered debate about trans issues. “My conclusion — people think of it as a change of sex. I haven’t gone from one to the other. To my mind it means something extra. I’m both now. I’ve got to be legally one sex or the other, but I’m both. I feel that after going through the whole business of not knowing what I was, I realize what I actually am is both. It seems to me a very, very privileged position.

“It’s possible that everyone has the potential to have both genders in them. It so happens that I’ve brought it to the surface. For the moment it is messy, but I think more and more people will move to my condition. Who knows, though? It’s a conclusion I reached for myself and I don’t want to theorise about anyone else’s life.”

Sorry for the multiple posts: but I had a few thoughts that didn't quite connect.

Thought 1: "Her body of work, fleeting journalism and more permanent book writing explains why she will be honoured at this year’s Cheltenham Literature Festival with The Times William Howard Russell prize for excellence. A fine career indeed, but as she once quipped: “I do not doubt that when I go, the event will be commemorated with the small back-page headline ‘Sex Change Author Dies’.”

That's the rub, isn't it? History will remember her for her bodily functions and not what her soul brought to life. How tragic.

Mmm, I think the article was removed. The link no longer seems to work ...

Meelie wrote: "I can’t go, as I’ll have a boxing session to attend - can’t miss out on that!!

But yes, if anyone goes, do let us know!"

#BadA**

MeerderWörter wrote: "It is with great relief that I can finally say:

California made it!

"California just became the first state to pass legislation on intersex rights. SCR-110 calls on the medical profession to dela..."

yay!!!! Yes, victory earned, go right ahead!

Susan wrote: "It is not unusual to be a victim and a perpetrator. Sadly, many victims of abuse perpetuate the abuse to the next generation. ."

Gosh I really, honestly, dislike this common idea. This, to me, sounds like another way to blame the victim.

We throw out general terms like "many", without understanding the the actual statistics or the general application to which this idiom was first used. What is many? Is it 5% of the population or 50% or 75%?

Nor do we know if it's more likely to be in different kinds of victims over others. If you were diddled as a child are you more likely to be a pedophile than if you those who were raped as an adult who may become a rapist themselves? If you have PTSD are you likely to go on a shooting spree more than if you only were held at gun point? Does duration matter? If a spouse is being beaten by their partner for years does that make them more or less likely to beat their next partner?

What the data does show us; is that abusers are more likely to abuse again. If you hurt someone once you are more than likely not afraid or worried about consequences that you do it again.

James wrote: "Pam wrote: "With all respect, people within MeToo haven't been silent. ."

Kudos to Milano and Burke for speaking out although they are but a couple of people. I would like to see this trend more b..."

I agree

Florian wrote: "Pam, could you explain your last sentence please? Maybe it is quite clear and possibly my brain is just exhausted :)

But as a victim, I want abusers to hurt more than just being slapped on the wri..."


No problem, Florian. I meant, I want those who abuse to receive a larger punishment than just a slap on the wrist.

This is what I think Sascha was pointing out Problem is public voices, and here Sanyal also critisizes Hollywood #metoo, often just call for social exclusion of perpetrators and thinking that is the only way. She says that marginalizing perpetrators of sexualized violence leads to these men only becoming even more misogynist and hateful antifeminists. But it would be better if they had the option to acknowledge what they did wrong and learn from their mistakes and apologize to their victims in an appropriate way.

We are being deafened by the Media and the gossip rags all GASPING as if SHOCKER they are just now realizing that women can be abusers, too.

So how as consumers and believers of #MeToo are we move past angry mob penalization and into working to reform these people?

Personally, I am a big believer in making sure we learn from our mistakes. In child psychology, smacking a kid and putting them into a corner isn't going to get them to stop doing the bad behavior. They have to learn why they did wrong and what they could have done instead.

But as a victim, I want abusers to hurt more than just being slapped on the wrists and walking away from the case with just a stern lecture.

Thoughts?

James wrote: "Asia may not be the sole voice of the #MeToo movement but the movement being quiet on this issue because its a man making the claims is troubling and goes to what Robert was talking about. The sile..."

With all respect, people within MeToo haven't been silent.

"https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/al..."
"In my view, it just means that the #MeToo movement is still strong and swelling, the fact that people are still coming forward, and still holding people accountable for their actions, whether that be a male predator or a female predator," the actress [Alyssa Milano] and activist told "Good Morning America."

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...
"As Tarana Burke, founder of the #MeToo movement so eloquently put it on Twitter, “It will continue to be jarring when we hear the names of some of our faves connected to sexual violence unless we shift from talking about individuals and begin to talk about power. Sexual violence is about power and privilege. That doesn’t change if the perpetrator is your favorite actress, activist or professor of any gender.”

#MeToo is working.

The point behind #MeToo, as Gerd says, is a platform for people to share their stories of how power (perceived, physical, etc) can remove consent.

MeToo was never a female only movement as Anthony Rapp showed. MeToo is a movement to share the voice of the voiceless; to share the voice of the victim.

Much akin to her music, Brownstein showcases a life in three parts that doesn't fit easily into meticulously labeled boxes. Instead, Brownstein unabashedly fights for the right to define herself, her music, her love, her emotions not through the lenses or monoliths that are Femalehood, Rocker, Lesbian, Daughter, but through her own spectrum. Much punk, very rock.

https://www.gq.com/story/michelle-yeo...

Michelle Yeah. Love her. I've been a fan of hers since her Bond days given her intelligence + fight scenes. Anytime I see her on a movie I fan girl out. As such, I love how she explains she broke into the industry as a fighter/ballerina/pageant winner. I love that she was able to trailblaze for all young Asian women AND for all young and scrappy girls of any background. Great interview on how she continues to push cultural norms for the better.

Plus... Crazy Rich Asians! Yay!

Ellen wrote: "Just as one example page 169 where the images depicts a very curvaceous female figure and the poem is very heterocentric.
Other poems celebrate the female form especially breasts and genitalia as n..."

Ah I see what you mean. I suppose that's goes to the heart of the transgender idealogy and it's inclusion into feminism thought.

I.e as cis women can we openly discuss the body that comes with us since birth?

- as your article points out, many cis women have body issues. Some of us hate our bodies because of an ideal we are chasing. Some of us love our bodies so as a testament to a confident love. And some are as the article mentioned- body neutral who haven't been blown away or apart by our forms. (I'm in this category)

I would say, and please correct me if this is an oversimplification, that one of the reasons why trans women convert is because they too are trying to chase that ideal womanly form. If their being screams be soft, be round, be curvy, as the "ideal" Venus then I think they may latch on to this identity.

And that's where the two ideals struggle. I think. Feminism gets to say that you can be flat, chesty, thick, thin, large, small, love handled - any body type and still be a woman. You can be a tomboy, a girly girl, or anything in-between and you're fine. There isn't one ideal woman. It's a spectrum. Whereas one part of the trans movement says to be a woman is to be pretty and where dresses or be soft and curvy or the stereotypes lauded to women currently. I.e to be a woman is to be an ideal. ( This is my interpretation, so please help me if I'm way off base)

Sorry long post: summary- is it wrong for cis women to write good things about their cis gender body, impo- no. Because I think the number of people in the body positive movement is in the minority for anyone who counts herself as female be they cis or trans

Florian wrote: "Pam wrote: "Emma wrote: "Dalma wrote: "Emma wrote: "Dalma wrote: "Reading Rupi Kaur's volume really inspired me to check out other contemporary, online poets' work. There are amazing sites and incr..."

Mmm good comparison. From "hood graffiti to street art" a funny twist of the brand and you go from a thug vandalizing property to Banksy.

Emma wrote: "Dalma wrote: "Emma wrote: "Dalma wrote: "Reading Rupi Kaur's volume really inspired me to check out other contemporary, online poets' work. There are amazing sites and incredible authors like Nayyi..."

How true!

I wonder if this is where the "Tumblr Poetry" title and slur come from. And if poets like Lovelace see this as an accusation or as empowering.

Amanie wrote: "I think you should include Carmen Maria Machado’s Her Body and Other Parties, which is an insanely good work of stories that intersect feminism, queerness, fairytale, and horror. These stories just..."

Thanks for the shout out Amanie. I'll add it to my personal to read list.

Arthur wrote: "Does anyone else care that this guy (Florian) is encouraging us to casually use terminology and discussion points that are only useful in a therapeutical setting?

I think he should be kicked out.
..."


May I ask you why you are so adamantly against Florian? This is now your second post where you call him out specifically. Why is that?