Pam’s Comments (group member since Dec 29, 2016)

Pam’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Ok. Just so I am clear.

You are saying that the fact that there may or may not be any male only 'zines is a problem for equality?

Clem wrote: "I Suppose it is, but at the same time I wouldn't consider Women's Health a feminist magazine

That's part of the issue, right? We have magazines that cater to a specific gender /topic women's health vs men's health, ladies home journal vs men's journal, GQ vs Vanity Fair. To that extent their is equality.

But what you are asking for is equity, wherein Riposte, Fruitlands, Gal-dem, Ladybeard, Rookie, Riot Grrls Zines exist to redress some specific issues.

These magazines are also "underground", less national, widespread publications that I can pick up in my grocery store. I've never heard of them. So... I cannot say that there isn't an underground male version for an MRA zine running around either.

My last family holiday gathering is Saturday at 3:00 EST. So I am out.

Happy holidays to all those who make the call!

An example of those magazines being... Vanity Fair, Vogue, Cosmo?

From what I remember, and please correct me if I am wrong, Khadijah hired Mohammad (P.B.U.H) before he was the prophet. He oversaw her trade caravans.

She was also one, if not, the first follower. The largely held belief was that she was his confidant, if not mentor given the age difference between the two. Given the respect between the two and the prophet's work to encourage respect and liberty, I believe the foundation of his work to be rooted in feminist ideals.

I enjoy reading up on Zainah Anwar and her work to encourage feminism thoughts as inspired by the Quran in Malaysia. http://www.musawah.org/

All good Michaela. I was running out the door and trying to add to the convo. Didn't add any info beyond the ideas.

Michaela wrote: "Hm, it deleted my comment -.- So now a shorter version: i think yes, the story could be seen as feminist if a woman is the sole survivor. But i don't thinks the films are, because the sole survivor..."

Halloween was feminist. Anytime Jamie Lee Curtis gets up there it's awesome.
Jennifer's Body, as over sexualized as it was, was all about men's fear about a vagina with teeth...
The Monstrous-Feminine: Film, Feminism, Psychoanalysis

http://amp.kiro7.com/news/local/nativ...

Found this on another GR book club site and I thought it was a good way to review the year.

Below, please add your top three feminists or feminist moments from 2018 (The Cheers) and the people or moments that offended feminism (The Jeers).

In my personal opinion:
Cheers:
- Donna Strickland, Canadian Physicist and Noble Prize in Physics. (Liberal Feminism) Her work in ultra short, high intensity laser pules (chirped pulse amplification (CPA) is what makes corrective eye surgery, industrial machining and medical imaging possible. But with her being one of only 3 women to ever receive the Prize in Physics and the first in 55 years, the Prize became less about the work and more about her gender. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2...

"I’m certainly aware of the climate. But I don’t see myself as a woman in science. I see myself as a scientist. I didn’t think that would be the big story. I thought the big story would be the science.”

Her winning continues to focus the optics of women in STEM fields (especially after a Nobel winner in 2015 condemned women in labs because they "distract men, fall in love with them and cry when criticized," which was met with #Distractingly_Sexy response https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trendi...)

And it also continues the gendered profession question. Are we Female Scientists or Scientists? Male Nurses/Murses or Nurses?

- Rachael Denhollander : (Individual Feminism) Lawyer and former US Gymnast who filed a federal lawsuit against former Michigan State and USA Gymnastics doctor, Larry Nasser, of sexual assault in which he was accused of molesting at least 250 girls and young women and 1 young man, (and some well known Olympic gymnasts since 1992. In 2017, Nassar was convicted to 60 years in prison for child porn. In 2018 he was sentenced an addition 40-125 years in prison for the sexual assalt.

The magnitude of his depravity was not his secret to bare alone. Plenty of parents questioned his methods, complained to the MSU (looking at you Lou Anna Simon, president of MSU), to US Gymnastics. USOC’s official policy from the board was to ignore victims of sexual abuse.

"When Olympic champion gymnasts came forward disclosing that their official team doctor was sexually abusing them, [former chief executive of the USOC] Scott Blackmun did what he always did when athletes reached out; he ignored them, telling [former president of USA Gymnastics] Steve Penny to handle it, not his organization. While other athletes had been complaining to the USOC over the years, it took over 400 survivors from a single abuser to reveal just how badly the USOC failed to protect athletes from those with power over them.”

The monster was able to get away with this for years because the sports community around him allowed him to do so. Until two-hundered and fifty-one other former gymnasts, along with 23 husbands of gymnasts, also brought up claims consolidated into Denhollander's suit.

https://www.thenation.com/article/the...
https://www.si.com/sportsperson/2018/...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanada...

- Kalpana Kotagal (Liberal, Intersectional Feminism) Sometimes, change doesn't happen unless you push harder. Such is the case when we have Oscars so white, or an industry that continues hiring practices that only benefits one gender or one race. Kotagal, a civil rights attorney, works to fix that with the use of an inclusion rider, a "legal language [that] actors can bake into their contracts to ensure more diverse representation in background actors and extras." This isn't a quota, but a way that big time celebrities can begin to drive industry change to show a more diversified world on screen as naturally as it occurs off.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40538947/...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...
https://www.fastcompany.com/40547099/...

Other nominees:
- Tarana Burke, Founder of #MeToo, because honestly everything she does is consciously aware and thought provoking. She is the healer of our time
- Youth: Emma Gonzalez, Anti-gun-violence movement, Greta Thunberg, climate change advocate.

Jeers:
- Janet Porter : (Individual Feminism fail) As the architect behind the "Heartbeat Bill", Porter is an anti-choice activist trying to outlaw abortion as early as six weeks into pregnancy. This bill was recently vetoed by Ohio Governor John Kasich, but Porter and the Ohio Senate are willing to push forward to take it to the Supreme Court in an effort to overturn Roe V Wade. https://rewire.news/article/2018/12/1...

If that wasn't enough, Porter, president and founder of the anti-choice group Faith2Action, also worked as a spokes person for Roy Moore's election campaign in Alabama. Yes, that Roy Moore who serially harassed and assaulted teenage girls, https://www.washingtonpost.com/invest...

- Kirstjen Nielsen : Secretary of Homeland Security for the United States. (Intersectional Feminism fail)... Family Separation Policy, the death of Jackeline Caal,

- Cyntoia Brown's Verdict Charles Roninson, the detective who brought her in, Jeff Burks, the prosecutor, Sixth Circuit judges, etc. At 16, Brown ran away from home and was forced into prostitution by a pimp. She was picked up by a 43 yr old Johnny Allen who took her home where he drugged and raped her. The man was later found naked, killed with a hole in the back of his head. Brown claimed it was self defense, told that she was a teen prostitute, but because she took money and two guns from the 43 yrs home, she was convicted of first degree murder and robbery. At age 16 she was tried as an adult and sentenced to life imprisonment. 2018, now that she is 30, Brown received a clemency hearing. Which the state of Tenneesee didn't provide.

It didn't matter that she was a minor, That this man had sex with a minor, That he paid to have sex with a minor
Only that after she killed him, she took his money. And therefore her case was said not to be for self-defense, but as armed robbery.

We all know she killed him and should be tried for that. But to be tried as an adult, for refusing to let her take the stand in her first trial, in determining her fate because self defense is ruled out when money was taken. Bull
https://www.newsweek.com/cyntoia-brow...
https://www.boston.com/news/national-...

Who is on your list?

It's very tricky, so I understand your confusion and concern.

There are a couple of resources available if you are the abused individual. If you are not, then it can become even more complicated. Also services provided differ depending on your location.

If you are in the US:
- https://www.thehotline.org/
- https://abuseintervention.org/help/fr...

Otherwise:
Women's shelters
police,
hospitals
multicultural associations
women's centers
local YWCA
telephone crisis lines,
legal aid offices
doctors or public health nurses
social workers
religious centers like mosques, churches, synagogues etc. Most faith leaders are trained or know of services to recommend to the person in trouble.

I hope this helps.

Cheryl Lancelot wrote: "I think the term feminism could mean different in practice to ppl with different ethnic background. I can see your confusion and to be honest, I am also a bit wondering why the girls wear headscarv..."

Fun fact: Christianity (for a period of time) required women to cover their head.

Corinthians: 11:2-16 King James Version (KJV)
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Now, as many of you know, not many Christian women keep to this fact. It is still practiced (Black churches and their crowns or amazing hats; or small pockets of Orthodox believers) but not to the extent it once was. Catholicism only changed this after Vatican 2, but to this day my grandmother still covers her head when she enters and bows before the Lord. Another note, Christian nuns still wear habits, or head coverings that covers their hair too. And yet we do not persecute them or tell them they are not being feminist. Why is that?

Our Jewish brothers wear a yamaka or a yarmulke. Orthodox members are to wears these constantly, and not just during church hours.

Why are our Muslim sisters punished for something that Abrahamic traditions approve?

Or we could even look to our brothers the Sikhs, whose turban or dastaars are an article of faith that represents honour, self-respect, courage, spirituality, and piety. A constant reminder of their faith as much as a cross pendant is to a Christian.

Sarina wrote: "What are you doing for Christmas, Pam?


I and my SO are from large families (6 children, 5 children) and have even larger extended families (11 children, 6 children) so once you add everyone's SO and all of their children is can easily be a 30+ person household. So typically we have around 5 celebrations. Two with the immediate families, two with the extended families, and then my family also hosts a brunch thrown in just in case you didn't get a chance to talk to everyone the first two times. And then there is Christmas Eve. This year because some of my siblings have to get home early enough on Tuesday as they work Wednesday and some of the others work weekends, we're going to have two extra "gatherings" over the weekend. So I'm looking at close to 7 unique family gatherings this year.

Plus whatever family gift my mom has picked out. I told her once that as adults, we don't need presents, we just need memories. So now instead of buying each other presents we all put in x dollars and have a large group outing. One year ago it was paint balls, another it was a shooting range. Last year we did go carts. A lot of fun.

As an inteovert, this tends to be intense for me. I love my family. But after back to back events I have to pace out how to make sure my "break" is actually one where I can recharge my batteries and not something that "breaks" me. I know this sounds selfish and once I'm at events, I enjoy hanging out with my family alot, especially as everyone gets older and as others are having kids and they are getting older. But the holidays are often like staring down a festive gauntlet. Everything is very pretty and great, but I'm going to be exhausted and grumpy afterwards.

So as far as self care days go. I'm all over those. Mini events like baking cookies or pre-xmas day events I try to leave after a respectable 4 hours there. At events I try to be the "fixer" so I have tasks to do so I can focus and have a moment of alone time before going back into a crowd of 30+ people. You need the trash taken out- I'm there! You need someone to run and grab more ice- I got it! Aunt Betty needs help getting to her car-OK! And I try to sleep or read or clean or take my dog for a walk when I'm not at a event. But it in all reality is New Year's before I can recharge again.

Any other introverts here? Do you have any party tips?

Sarina wrote: "So, I’m going to have a small, self-care Christmas this year. I’m a little sad about it, but I’m not too sad because I know it’s what’s best for me."

What do you have planned? A mini at-home spa day with face masks and bubble baths? Cozying up in a extra soft blanket and reading a good book? Going out to the theater complex to see a movie with a GIANT tub of extra buttery popcorn and milk duds?

Anna wrote: I would like to add the feminist waves (from wikipedia and a Danish book I read recently about fourth wave feminism)"

Awesome! Great addition Anna!

Camelia Rose wrote: "Thank you so much! Very good summary of different types in feminism!.."

Happy to help Camelia Rose!

Simona wrote: "I wish someone could tell me "hey you're really good at this! You should pursue a career in this field!"

Some words of wisdom from: first decide: will your job be something that you love to do or will your job provide for you so you can do the things you love. I.e. Is your job your passion or will it be something that pays for your passion.

Both answers are acceptable. The key is to be honest with yourself.

And the second question you should ask is how ambitious are you? Are you someone who wants to have the same job for years on end or do you want to constantly go after the next promotion, the next opportunity?

These will begin to help you decide. (As will other issues like education, time, cost, location etc. But it will help narrow down the list so you can decide)

And lastly... (if not contradictory) life has a habit of changing. So the pressure you feel right now to decide on a job that will effect "THE REST OF YOUR LIFE" is only going to last this moment. In 5 years, it very well could change. So do yourself the favor and stop fretting. Having options is good because no matter which path you take... skills can translate over.

I.e. If you start as an engineer, you very well could take a position as a technical writer or a program manager or a science educator

if you start in the medical field, you can change from hospitals to private practice to hospital administration or in-care specialist

if you start as an office admin this can translate into accounting, HR, etc.

Life isn't a straight line, and neither will be your career.Sometimes it's a jungle gym.

Whelp, as an ugly, unattractive and muscular female.... guess I don't count.

Other Movies:

- Bend it Like Beckham
- The Joy Luck Club
- How Stella Got her Groove Back
- Battle of the Sexes
- Any "sisterhood"movie

See also the Bechdel Test for movies that at least showcase a women talking to another woman about something other than a guy. Not all of these may be feminist in nature, but definitely help push films along. https://bechdeltest.com/

Magail wrote: "But... I don't know. I felt most of the women in the books, the one that were a little important, were either mothers, and then stay at home housewives, either "old ladies" with no family, and then worked..."

That's fair. I think what Rowling did, however, was to give us a very rich spectrum. Many times fantasy authors in general are critized for only having very few women in their story at all. So the fact that we have:
Teenagers:
- Brainy: Hermione, Padma
- Athletic: Ginny, Angelina, Millie
- Compassionate: Cho, Hannah
- Boyfriend Crazy: Lavender, Romilda
- Spoiled: Pansy
- Loony: Luna

Older Women:
Crazy; Bella, Petunia
Funny: Tonks, Figg
Non-Teacher Professional women: Rosmerta, Madam Malkin, Amelia Bones,
Authoritative: Hooch, Minerva, Neville's Grandma's Augusta, Dolores
Nurturing: Sprout, Pompry
Mothers who would do Anything: Molly, Lily, Narcissa
Misc: Charity, Fleur, Trelany

the fact that we have all of these unique female characters that run as foils and hindrances and champions allows us to see that femalehood is not 1 personality nor 1 image.

I think it's also important to also look at the books and their setting. Yes there are a rasher of mothers and old ladies who do not have children, but we're also looking at it from a grade school kid's perspective. We're not following a story at the small businessewomen's council. :)

And to the fataphobia. I can see fatshaming with Marge Dursely. I like to think that JK used Madame Olympe Maxime as the counter to Marge. Each character though, was more that her appearence. Marge was a big gal, but she also was a bully. Olympe was part giant and she was also a fashionista headmistress. Could you tell me more about the fat shaming? I am sorry I either missed it or ignored it. (Private message is ok, too)

Magali wrote: "not white, rich, straight, conservative and in power. .."

Yeah, a lot of those identifiers as you pointed out Magali are more important than their specific body parts. I.e. Who cares about the poverty levels for poor urban families when you are rich? Who cares about the plights of single mothers when you are rich (or pro-baby).

Leslie wrote: "I agree that it's sometimes hard to know who to vote for, but more women would definitely be good. The Democrats coming into the House in the US look like a pretty good mix - lots of women, and several people of colour.
"

but more women would definitely be good. 100% agree, but let's make sure we all understand that more women doesn't necessarily mean they will vote as a monolith.

Ok. American here. I want to make sure that the women of the conservative party are being recognized. Democrats are not the only ones who have ever voted for a woman or hired a woman.

- Nikki Haley, current diplomat to the UN
- Kelly-Ann Conway, current .... consultant to the POTUS,
- Michele Bachmann, former member of the House of Representative, (Huge Tea-bager and pro-lifer)
- Marsha Blackburn, current member of the House of Representatives,
- Sarah Palin, former Alaskan governor and this is right off the top of my head.

And they have shaken up a lot of policies just not necessarily for the betterment of women as per a liberal thinker.

I don't want people to assume:
a) That Conservatives hate women in power. They don't.
b) That women only vote liberal. They don't.
c) That women's issues are only argued by one side. There is just as likely of women voting against issues as they are women voting for it.
d) to think that women vote as a monolith is to undermine some of the ideals of inter sectional feminism which says that we are more complex than just our flesh bags. Things like social economics, religion, and upward mobility play a huge role into what makes us tick. And for some women, they tick conservative.