Anna David's Blog, page 9

Get Over Yourself and Pay for Media with Jay Jay

 

Jay Jay is tired of people thinking they just deserve media attention.

A former magician who now helps personal brands become seen as the number one in their industry, he's also tired of publicists overpromising and underdelivering.

And he has good reason to be tired of it: Jay is excellent at guaranteeing people media attention—in publications like Forbes, LA Weekly and Ocean Drive, and even Maxim, WWD and Us Weekly.

In this episode, he broke down why media attention matters, how it should be used and how authors seeking PR need to stop focusing on the wrong things.

RELATED EPISODES:  

Talking About Your Book on TV and Podcasts with Media Coach Susan Harrow

Cameron Herold on Generating Free PR and Creating a Vivid Vision for Your Book

TRANSCRIPT:

 

Anna: Jay, thank you so much for being here.

Jay: Yeah, we'll have firstly happy Presidents Day. I woke up this morning. And I was like, there's an energy today. It's different than the guy says in the, in the condo is like, it's Presidents Day. I'm like, yeah, I need a break from this guy anyway, so it's all good.

Anna: I will say that when you don't have kids, things like Presidents Day is just like, you decide to go to the bank, and it's closed. And you're like, what? I didn't know, what!

Jay: Actually it's great because the office is super quiet. And it's like, I'm such an energy guy. I know everybody says that. But my life has been energy for the last 34 years on this planet. So it's calm today, like my phone’s not blowing up. It’s like, I'm calm, nice. Nice feeling for a Monday.

Anna: So you were just saying something that I found so fascinating. And I don't know, if you, like my background is, I come from traditional media. I come from the world where if you came up to me, and you said, we can pay $10,000 to get this story placed there, I should have like, tried to push you off a bridge. And I have woken up. Well, I woke up to a couple of things. I basically stopped being a broke journalist, and became a successful entrepreneur. Because I, I, I just realized it was all such lies anyway. But you know what, let me stop talking and you tell me what you were saying before.

Jay: Well, you know, just to come back to the, to like the backstory, I was a broke entertainer for most of my life. So I was a famous magician, who was very well known all over the world, but I was broke. I was super talented. I was really charismatic. I had the best equipment. I had the best show reel, the best website, but something wasn't working. And I think part of that pain and problem that I had was my ego. I felt that I'm really good and people should just know me. And people should just give me opportunities. And obviously, I would see other people who weren't as talented or good-looking or as well spoken, get all these opportunities. And I'm like, why them and not me? And that took me a long time to get out of, I call it fairy land or Disneyland, of like, the reality is, the reality of like making it in whatever your expertise you're in, you have to use money. And you have to use things that we're not told, because we want to believe that we're just great. And we're a princess, and everybody should just give it to us. And now that I'm heavily involved, just like you in the media, I mean I run a personal branding agency, we have a PR firm. I've seen the darkness of, and the darkness and the brutality of this world. And it's very, the illusion gets broken very quickly for you. If you wanted me to tell you of like, how did people, things get done? It isn't because they were good. Or they deserved it. And that's what I'm going to say. The Hollywood is not what you think it is. And a lot of people, especially entrepreneurs in this digital space, don't want to know the truth. And they're in trouble because they don't, they allow the ego to take over.

 

Anna: Well, interesting. What do you mean, they don't want to know the truth?

Jay: Because it hurts too much.

Anna: What's, so what’s true?

Jay: The truth, the reality, the reality of actually, how to actually take themselves and their expertise and their brand to the next level.

Anna: Right.

Jay: And they're, they're like, in my opinion, they're like two kind of truths, is the reality of like, maybe they aren't as good as they say they are, right? That like not it, not that great, or their marketing isn't that good. Or they haven't allowed to just go by I have to do things that I didn't think I have to do. And I have to just go and do it. But they sit sometimes in this highchair of life, of like, well, I made it in the 90s. Like that's not how it works anymore. I made it in the 2015, 2019. Yeah, it's 2023 now.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: So I think a lot of people, it's really, it's hard to and as I said, I'm such an energetic person, and I sometimes wish I was more of a Leo, right? Because I could be like that, but I'm so empathetic. I'm like I feel it, and I was like I gotta tell you something, you're not gonna like this. Like that, that ain't how it works anymore.

Anna: Well, it’s interesting, because when I first, you know, I came from media. I worked at People and Us Weekly and Premiere and Playboy and all those places and it was all quote, you know, earned media. However, there was this pure company, it still exists, PMK. It’s like where all the biggest celebrities are. If you got PMK, it didn't matter how random you were. If you were willing to pay PMK 50 grand a month, they could get you anywhere. Now somehow that is considered completely honorable. However, if you were going to just directly pay that publication $50,000 to put you on the cover that is, quote, immoral. And that is where I started to hit my head against the wall. Because it's just the honest version of what's been happening this entire time. Correct?

Jay: It's the smokescreen. It's the magic. It's the, it's the illusion. That is what I came from. It's what you want the world to see. But in the reality, there's another side of it. But no one wants to, no one wants to tell the truth because the truth is not sexy. You want to be like, hey, I deserved it. They were giving it to me. No, you got three people on firms on retainers, that you pay five figures a month to, they’re doing something and you just get given it, now you feel why deserve that. No, they probably did things because they wanted to get paid the next month. But conversations like I have no ego because I came from entertainment. So like, you can't tell me something now for me like, oh my gosh, I'm hurt. It’s more, okay, my biggest thing is like, do you know deep down do you deserve it? Like if we can get you to the table, as they call it, can you close? Can you deliver, right? Like if you're a musician, if you're a speaker and I get you on a TEDx stage, however, we get you there, you better like close it off because your character and your content and your talent. You can't buy that.

Anna: Right, right.

Jay: So that's, that's how I like to, to frame it up now. Like, who cares on, why do we care on how we get there?

Anna: Right.

Jay: Like, if you ask me like, okay, like, let me ask you this, like, what's your favorite food?

Anna: Chicken.

Jay: Chicken? Okay, what's your favorite restaurant?

Anna: Oh, so hard to say? Quick, why am I drawing a blank?

Jay: Okay, like, well give me give or give me a place that you'd like, oh, my gosh, that was one of the best meals around the world or in America that you've been to.

Anna: There, I, okay, you know what, I'm terrible at this game. Like don't do, give me another thing, not restaurants because this always happens when people…

Jay: So, just think like, think of a really amazing meal. Right?

Anna: Right.

Jay: Okay, when you have that meal, and they bring it to you and it's amazing, do you say hey, was the chef black or is he Mexican? You don't say stupid stuff like that. You don't care because you're paying for the outcome of the dish.

Anna: Right.

Jay: You don't care whether they put the potatoes in the water for three minutes, or a minute and a half? And you, you don't need to know because that's the magic of the outcome. You don't go to the chef, hey what's the exact ingredient? Hey, that's his trick. Yeah, I think the reason I'm playing this game with you is because a lot of times it's like, why do we care? Like, it's because it's, it's about this feeling of like, oh, like you worked hard for it. I'm like, I got the outcome. Now, how we got there, it's whatever you think is right, like who decides what's right and what's wrong.

Anna: So let's describe what we're talking about. I'll have said in the intro, but basically, we're talking about guaranteed media placement. And we're talking about rather than going and pitching a publication, actually exchanging money in order to get somebody coverage in a publication or on a TV show, right? Is that, is that how you would phrase it too or differently?

Jay: Yeah, well just to give a context. So like, I pay PR firms, five figures a month before I paid, I paid other people to do certain jobs. And I'm like, well, if I can pay this firm to do it, or I can pay someone else, and they can guarantee it, or they can have really strong deliverables. I don't care who gets me there. I need this for a specific reason. And I'm going to use this currency of money because that's the best way to get something. Better than a high five, or a favor, or I owe you. IOUs never work in PR by the way. People will say, I’ll owe you one. No, we're not doing IOUs not from his client point of view, Anna, but like I have other journalists like, hey, can you help me get them into here and I owe you one. I'm like, nah, I don't want to do that because it's never fair. Like, you have a great contact at something that I can't, it's like, okay, so the context of what we were speaking about is people have problems of paying for media where they want to feel like they deserve from an organic point of view. But at the end of the day, you're, the reason you're doing this is to get more clients, more cash flow, more exposure, no one cares, hey, did they pay for that article? Or are they in the article like, they just think that they see you with the credibility. Now, obviously if it says sponsored, and all this stuff, that's different problems. So that's kind of the context we're talking about. And now I run this agency, helping people get to the next level of their personal brand, right? Doctor, lawyer, plastic surgeon, author, whatever. They want to be more known. And we have tools to help them get there. And they've been so hurt by other firms that over promise, under deliver, don't hit deliverables. I’m like, now you can pay money to have the deliverables. And let's work backwards. And let's come up from like a holistic approach. Like if we get you there, okay, what else can we do to like enhance the media, enhance the leverage of the, of the publication?

Anna: So what are some publications that you can get people in? I know there's a million. Tell me the biggest ones.

Jay: Yeah. So that we had a, we have a great relationship with Forbes.com. Right, we have a great relationship with Forbes. Forbes has, here's a little fun, little insider info: They, Forbes, I will just say it. So Forbes Monaco lost their license recently. And that was a big call, Forbes Monaco. Like, Monaco is Monaco. And the reason why is because people were getting in these, this is the, this is the dark side of the sometimes paying to get to the front of the queue, is because not everyone deserves to be in the front of the queue. And sometimes when it comes to money [inaudible], here's money for a certain transaction, just because you can, doesn't mean they deserve it. Working, we're getting in these publications, and it was tarnishing the brand of Forbes and they realize this and like, that's it, you lose your license. Because obviously people are getting into these, these articles when they shouldn't be. So we've got some right relationships with some, with some high-end contributors and publishers, and at the end of the day, whether I know them and whether I've spent five grand on lunches over the last year with them. Or, and then they do me a favor, or I give them a gift, or I pay them money. Like it's just they're doing me a favor, and I'm using something to help them do that. So yeah, I don't want to go around too much about this. But it's like, it's just I think, to the, to the outcome that everybody's listening is what will, let's get you to the goal faster like, Anna you said this to me on our call, like you said, Jay I like your speed. Like, I want to get there as fast as possible. Because I know there's going to be another whole bridge to get across, faster get to that bridge, we get into the next bridge. And I think now Anna, when it comes to like online, its attention is a huge problem, right? Like everyone's like got a million things going on. So how fast can I get to the goal? And what are you willing to do to get there? And how much money are you willing to pay? And that's what it comes down to. And I don't allow to buy into the ego of like, well, this, that doesn't matter. No one cares. No one cares.

Anna: So if Forbes Monaco lost their license for paid media placement, how is that different, that, I think I'm confused? They lost their license because the wrong people were paying to be in there?

Jay: Yeah, well, I think it was a bit of both. I don't think it was just because people were paying because I think the, a lot of people were getting in the publication that didn't deserve to get in there. So the brand was tarnished. The, the image was tarnished a little bit.

Anna: How do, who determines whether or not that they can, if anybody can come and pay who determines who's worthy?

Jay: The, well depending on the accessibility of the contributor of you know, when you buy a license for let's say, Forbes, obviously you run it and you have the ability, probably run to the guy when it's, I don't know the guidelines, but maybe, I don't know you can have 100 writers, and those writers have to do a minimum of two contributions every month. So cool, they just do contract, but obviously all these people are getting in the article and you need volume because you need to build Forbes, you need to build the, the brand. Obviously, the head team said we don't like what we see you don't get to renew it so that and the same thing with television as well. Like television is more nastier than press in the publication world.  TVs can be can be more worse because it's, there's a lot of variables to a TV. You've got the producer, you've got the EP, then you've got the cameraman, then you've got the journalists. There's a lot of people on that field. And a lot of people can get in trouble if it's not done the right way, like you ever watch TV Anna, and you ever see something like that story doesn't make sense? Or like, something doesn't add up here. Like, why would they talk? There's, there’s plays behind the play. So, yeah.

Anna: So, if for somebody listening says, okay, I want to be in Forbes, I want to be on TV, how do I know if I'm worthy? What is that process? And also, I'd love to hear about publications, in addition to Forbes, other publications that you help people get in.

Jay: Yes. So, so look, you know, the, it's a great question. So someone comes to me well Jay, if everyone can pay, right, that ruins the whole point of like, you know, great people getting in. You're 100%, right. However, I'm the, I'm the, the gatekeeper.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: I'm the soldier. I mean, I'm the security guy. Like, here's the club, not everybody can come through. What are you wearing? And how do you look? What do you sound like? I’m the same thing, I have the accessibility to these large media outlets, TV press, podcasting influences, different books. I've got the people to help us do that. But that doesn't mean you deserve just to get in because you're using money. Money is just to get my attention and to put you to the front of the queue. That's, and then obviously, if we feel like you're a good fit, because I have to respect the relationships on everybody else. Hey, okay. That's how it works. It's just like going to Disneyland. I went to Disneyland once and like, hey, it's 97, 127 bucks, or it's 797 or something like that but you get like VIP breakfast, lunch and snacks. Plus, we take you to the front of the queue. I'm like sign me up for that. He took me right to the front of the ride. Yeah, I’m like, no way. I was like, this is what I'm talking about.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: And I had a great time. And everyone was cool. So yeah, so I think to your, to your question, that's, that's how we make sure we, we approve the people first. And then with, in regards to other publications. Yeah, we have access to all different ones from SEO publications to ones that when you google someone's name, it's going to come up on Google. So it's really great for your domain ranking. That's great for anyone listening because most people have no digital presence. They have a very, like Anna, you have a great digital presence. You put your name in, bam, TV, prep, like you, you are, that is how people should be. But most people have no articles, no good website, no good social. So that's, that's one strategy for press. Then we do some kind of like, national tier stuff. So could be something like a Chicago Journal, or it could be something where it's more like, oh, I've heard that before. And then you've got the big boys, the globals like Forbes, Entrepreneur, Huffington Post. Like you've got different ones that we either have access to, or we know the right people to go at least, and pitch and they will take our email first.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: That's an upgrade vantage because you get 500 emails a day. Be like, delete, delete, delete, delete, oh, Janice, hi Janice. That's not gonna work, Janice, but come next week, like, right, you didn't know, you know what you journalists have to go through every day. I've seen it. I'm like, show me, they're like 600 unread emails. I'm like, my gosh. I'm like, how does someone get through to you? And they're like, not like this. Right?

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: You build a relationship.

Anna: And so, but, but truly, I mean, you have gotten clients on the Today Show, I think you've gotten them on Lewis Howes’ show like, right?

Jay: I hadn't I haven't personally done the Today Show. I haven’t, but my partners have. So in a way, yes. The, the magic though, or the reality, reality though? And Lewis Howes. Yes, Lewis Howes has these big people like we all, we all sort of work together and our, in our teams. The biggest thing is a lot of people think though Anna, once you get on this show, you just sit back and do nothing. And that is the biggest problem. And I think that's when most PR firms struggle, and most marketing firms struggle because they don't teach people how to leverage their results.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: Like I've seen it firsthand. I had a partner, partner, that got someone on the Today Show. They had a four-minute bit, really good spot. Nothing happened. Nothing happened from the, they got a little bit of website increase. It was good, but it could have been better. But that's not up to your control. The host wasn’t in a good mood that day, they didn’t vibe together, the cameraman didn't show the product as long as I was like, they, they didn't really give it as much, like airtime. It was a rushed piece. That lady I know spent a lot of money with a firm, right, with a firm so she didn't pay for it, with a firm, over six figures in a year. That was their big win. And she didn't get the result. Yeah, like how do you think that teels, you’re six figures in the hole, you spent 10 months on a retainer to get a win. The PR firm is happy because they got your win. You're thinking you're gonna kill it because the outcome is to sell your product. Nothing happened. This is a huge problem. This is a massive problem in, in the, so I try and like help people like, hey, we can get you these things. But what is the plan, like before, during, after to leverage it? Because one television show, one Forbes article, one influence on one podcast with Anna isn't going to cut it. It's everything. And I think a lot of people haven't been told the truth behind you.

Anna: And so what should somebody do? What should that person who had that great TV show appearance have done? She should have taken the clip and pitched it to 10 more big shows? Right?

Jay: 100%, yes. So you know, if you're working with a firm right now, or if you know that something's coming out in the next two weeks? Like, you should be thinking, okay, what can we do pre, during, and after, to maximize this exposure? The biggest one that I tell people is like, send an email blast, even if you have four emails. Doesn't matter. Like send, hey, I'm going to be on the Today Show. Hey, I'm coming out in Forbes next week, get them excited about new things coming for you. The moment it comes out, the same day, you should be throwing it on your social media. Social media, website, sending another email blast out. Then the other big thing you should be doing is taking that media and sending it to all your old prospects who said no.

Anna: Yes.

Jay: Because they'll be like, I've done this multiple times, or TV shows or go on TV show. Hey, John, check out my last TV show, when can we speak again? Yeah, let's have another conversation, boom. So the TV show that I paid 5,000 for, made me 30,000, but because I had to get it in front of the guy ready to give me the money. When most people would be like Anna, I'm on a TV show. Nothing happened. Of course it didn’t happen. How do you, it's how do you use this kind of new, new claim to fame that you have?

Anna: I mean, that's exactly what it is with a book. You can have a book that looks nice on your bookshelf, or you can have a book that transforms your life. And it's literally the difference is how you can have the book that's just sitting in your bookshelf could be a better book. But it doesn't matter if you don't go talk about it. You don't go send it to ideal prospects. If you don't go do something with it. It doesn't matter.

Jay: Anna, let me ask you this. When did the idea of people writing a book just thinking that's it? Like who gave us this idea? Like was that, is that just general marketing? Like you did a book, I'm good. Like who, who said that you can just write a book and just let it be? Who approved this?

Anna: I will say, as somebody who was around back when traditional publishing worked, and when you could make a great living from books. I was at a unique juncture. Because my first book came out in 2007. It was still possible. I was wined and dined at Michaels, I sold the movie rights for a lot of money, it was like this whole thing. And then when the recession hit, it just changed. And it became impossible for authors to make a living. And then entrepreneurs were very savvy and saw oh, you don't need to make the living from the sales. You make it from everything else. So, so I do think that there is in our society, this idea about art and commerce should not meet. There's something tacky about like, wanting to make money off of an art. You know, it's such BS.

Jay: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. I got, I got drilled when I was a magician, people like how could you teach magic tricks on my, on YouTube? That's a disgrace to the community. I said, I ain't doing this for the community. I'm doing this because people want to have a good time. Like, I'm not doing it for you. But I get it. It's people, it's we call it, we call it sell out. That's what it is, you sell out. Like, you know. Singers? Oh you sold out? You just copied people's covers? I'm like, who are you listening to? Like, and I'll tell you firsthand, too, like, I have a soft spot for artists because I was one, right. And I still am but I see, there are so many amazing artists that don't get taught how to have confidence and belief in themselves to ask for money. And that's why they're broke.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: Because they want to sit on if people think I'm good, they'll pay me what. No people won't. They don't know anything. Yeah, you have to ask for it. And, and it hurts me a lot because I see so many talented people who are broke and struggling because that no one's given them the confidence to be like, yo, speak up. Like, you can now make six figures from Instagram. I've seen it from artists, you can put a painting on Instagram and say, everybody, it’s only 1000 but I’m selling for 200. But I've got five of them. Boom. You know what to say. No sales manager, no CRM just you asking and showing good work, but they don’t even want to do that.

Anna: Well, I think it's, to me, it's less about confidence. I mean, this is the same thing. And more about just fear, discomfort. I don't want to put myself out there. It feels uncomfortable. Guess what? It feels uncomfortable for me. It may even feel uncomfortable for you, doesn't seem like it. But like, you know the point is it there isn't this like world of some people are just so comfortable putting themselves out there and others aren't. You gotta go claim your seat. And we live at this glorious time where you don't need a gatekeeper to tell you you're good enough. So go claim your seat.

Jay: Yeah, yeah, who said I always tell people who said that. I play this game with people. Like I'm shy. I'm an introvert. No one wants to hear my story. Who said that? Oh, I did. Yeah, exactly. What else you telling yourself?

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: Yeah, and you're 100% right Anna. It always comes down to one word: fear.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: It's always fear, fear of judgment, fear, fear of doubt fear of is it going to work for you? Are they gonna make fun of me? I'm like, Yeah, I'm scared all the time, too. So. So what do you want to do about it? Like I'm like, great. So you said, I think when sometimes when you break the, you just tell it how it is that you're scared? Great. Okay, what's next? Ah, well, okay, what are you gonna do about it? Because this, this girl did it. And she's not as pretty as you. And she's not as funny as you. And she's not as well off as you has. So she could do it. I try to relate that a lot. Like if she can do it, if he can do it, please.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: We live in North America. Please.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. So, so let's say somebody listening says, well, wait a minute, I want to be in Forbes, I want to be in Chicago Journal and all of these things. Can anyone reach out to you? How does that work?

Jay: Yeah. So obviously, like I'm really big on, they can obviously reach out to me that, I'm really big on finding out their why though. Like, what is their expectation of being in Forbes? Now there's the I just want to be in Forbes because I've always wanted to be in Forbes. I've always wanted to be on GMA, because I've always wanted to be on GMA. Or I want to be in People. Yeah. However, here's the reality. If we all just want that, then most of the time, it's not going to happen, because everyone wants those things. Firstly, we need to see what you've done to deserve it. Right? Secondly, okay, if you're not there yet, what is the reason why you want to be here? Oh, you want to be able to position yourself with more authority? Oh, well, that's a different conversation. Let's do that with some smaller publications. Let's do that with maybe a local TV show. Let's do that with getting you a book, like fixing your authority, like let's do that. I'm really finding the why before I, before I just give people the keys, and like, here are all the things you can buy. Like, what, why do you want to do this?

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: That's, I think that's what's been really great. You know, we've got over 100 clients in 10 countries. It's helped because I've been a global, I've had a lot of people around the world. But I think the reason we've grown really quickly is yes, we have these media outlets that most people don't have. We can guarantee some deliverables which people have never heard of, in the PR space. Like they, they hate me for saying stuff like this. I've had emails, like how could, I've had an email subjects like how could you write, like you are disgrace to the industry? I'm like, bring it I'm like, I tell people like I'm the Uber that came the, that's like what it did for taxis. You know, when taxis, when Uber came in, it completely destroyed taxis because it was faster, smarter, better. It cleaned up the problems that taxis faced, it was safer. I'm like, well done Uber. That's what I wanted to do for PR. I wanted to have deliverables. I wanted to have a holistic approach. I wanted to actually go hey, you don't need that. Like just because you want to give me 50 grand, five grand, 13,000. That's, you don't need that. You have an offer problem. So we get you in Forbes, right? You pay me five figures. But you don't even have enough customers to know what's working right now. And I think most people know that giving people the truth. That's what I do. And like you don't need it. Or like you have a lead flow problem. Or like, do you know what you do? They're like, well, I have, what I'm like, if you can't tell me what you do in a sentence like we don't need anything else until we solve that.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. That's like our, our, you know, discover your book in a sentence template. It's like, who is this for? What do they want?

Jay: Yeah.

Anna: That's the easiest way. So okay, but I'm like, looking at what you offer. It's like there are,  somebody can come along and get in LA Weekly, Flaunt, Gracia, Okay, E Online, Life & Style. I mean, it's just…

Jay: Yeah, we have a list of 100 publications. However, most people, if I said to you Anna name, it’s different cause you’re a journalist, name more than 15 publications. You can't. No one really knows more than like the classics. So it's more about, like I think there's different PR bundles, we create like a bundle together. I think you saw that as well. Like we've got like if you’re an entrepreneur. Here's like low tier, medium tier, high tier cost. Hey, that's good stuff. You just start with that.

Anna: Yeah, yeah.

Jay: TV, the same thing. We have TV shows, right? We have, we have podcasts that people can come on. So it really comes down to what is the direction that you want to go down, that you want to actually do? Because a lot of people go, hey, I want to be this, but I don't also want to do social content. Well, then we're not going to give you the social plan. Right? Or, hey, I don't want to really show up on TV. Okay, well, then we won’t wind up doing TV, we’ll do podcasts. Can you do a shot for podcasts? Yeah. So yeah.

Anna: Um, and so, God, I got distracted in you're like, this is just an amazing array of offers here. So does it say sponsored on all of these posts?

Jay: Some, some do. I prefer not to give detail but I'm very clear on like, hey, we can get you in this publication, or we can get you on this television show or get on this podcast. Or whatever strategy we use. This will say this. This is what it would look like as the outcome. And pros and cons. Here's some truth behind what I've done. A lot of the times when television shows or press, they've got it hidden, so it’s discrete. So like, for some shows that I've been on that I’ve paid for, it will say sponsored by Ace of Spades. Well, I don’t put that up on social, do I? I just cut that out.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: Right? And it doesn't matter. It's like it doesn't concern, no one, no one has gone, hey, can you send me the whole clip? Like they see you, oh, Jay’s on TV. He's the expert. He's got a [inaudible], I probably need to go to him with that panel problem. Right. Right. Right. Asked me stupid questions. And so yeah, I feel like it's just giving people the, you got to, there are some publications that do, some that don't, but most of them that we have, they, it's all real. It's supposed to help you these tools. Anna these are just tools just like a book. It's supposed to help you. It's not supposed to, like that's it. It's just supposed to enhance what you have.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. And does it provide, some of them provide links back to their website, which really can help SEO, but not all of them? I mean, it all depends, right?

Jay: Well, yeah, here's the great thing with digital PR. Obviously, you know, I still love getting a magazine. I was in Forbes and I was in like, I get to hold it. But other than that, it takes too long. Everything's Googleable now. So your name or the keywords, like you're going to find yourself Googleable, and all these, most of the publications have backlinks, you'll at least have your name in it. TV shows will always have your website link. So not only are you getting the media, like you can leverage it but also you're getting free, free, as I call it, like real estate of your name on the internet. And like why Google you Anna. Like, I'm sure that immediately I don't know how long you've been building this for. But it was everywhere. So like, it positions you in my mind? Oh, this is an expert. Like, this is someone that I need to, like, she's, she knows what she's talking about.

Anna: Yeah. And I mean, I came about accidentally because I was shocked when my first book came out. And the Today Show is like, come on and talk about addiction. And I'm like, what? So I, I'm the slowest to wake up to this. I was building this whole thing. And, like you were saying, I was completely broke. I was, I had all the media hits in the world, and nothing to do with that.

Jay: Interesting what, what, what,  well, let me ask you this, because this has been good for your audience. So you had all the attention, likability, show. What was the thing that took you from struggle to success or what is it?

Anna: I had no business!

Jay: So you had no offer?

Anna: Yeah, I thought just being on the Today Show, or Good Morning America, or in these, these publications was enough. I mean, it's almost like what you were talking about before, like the people who just, like led with their ego. I mean, it really, it's like, I thought I should be paid for just being special. Like, when I look back. That's really what I thought.

Jay: We work with so many speakers and the amount of speakers they think their message should be, they should be paid $10,000 plus.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: You know, and I know you feel that way. Get in line. Because you and a million other people have the same story.

Anna: Yeah.

Jay: Right? And they're not buying it like that. They're not buying a story, they’re buying on the outcome of what happens to the audience.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I'm always pushing people and they'll say, well, I just want to write a book and I'm like, that's awesome. They say I just want to help people and I'm like, do you realize that in addition to helping a whole bunch of people you may never know you helped, because they you never may meet them. you can also help yourself. And, and people can hire you to do what it is you're describing in this book. And I pushed people because I had to be pushed into it. I didn't get it either.

Jay: Oh, I had, I learned that the worst way. I learned like the worst of the worst, you know, struggling, questioning yourself, doubting yourself. Like, you know, nothing crazy. No crazy thoughts, but enough to like, really go this isn't meant for me. I had a good run, like, yeah. And all it takes is one shift, like one shift for you to go, oh, I was led to believe something completely wrong. And you know, I know so many people still haven't been told this enough or want to accept it.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah.

Jay: Many of the people that I meet that just never transition to digital properly. Like, you know, you know, when you see this stuff online, it's like, you're still trying to hold on to like the old you like, get, you need, you need to fight with this, like, you have to. Like you're losing out to someone who's not as good, not as talented, who understands how to work this baby. Yeah, they're getting seen. And you're still struggling, you know.

Anna: Well, this has been fabulous. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Jay: Yeah. Ace of Spades agency, just because I was a magician, right? So aceofspacesagency.com. And look, even if you're listening to this right now, and you're like, hey, Jay, I just want to get started on something small. I know, I need to get out there. I know, I need to maybe position myself, get more authority, get more credibility, like we can help you at a very small investment, right? Or if you're like, hey, Jay, money's not a huge concern for me, but I want to plan and I'm tired of all this. I've been sold lies, I've been sold over promise, hey, we can give you very strong deliverables. And I'll tell you the truth. And at least you know that, and I know that we'll hit those deliverables, and what happens from there is how you want to, what is they call it dance with the, I call it dance with the devil. How you want to boogie, boogie, boogie with, boogie with the angel.

Anna: Love it. Well, thank you, Jay. So much. And thanks, you guys for listening.

Jay: Absolutely.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

 

 

22 Words That Will Get You Speaking Gigs (with Joel Weldon)

 

Joel Weldon is the first guest I've ever had who wrote the introduction to the podcast episode for me.

He's also the first to have a timer on so he could make sure we didn't go over 30 minutes.

You get it, the guy's a pro.

And it makes sense. He's a Hall of Fame speaker who's been speaking for over four decades and is a true legend in the speaking industry—having been paid to speak at over 3,000 events and personally coached over 10,000 speakers. 

In this episode, we talked about how to why you need to research your audience ahead of time, how to make your speech about them and the 22 words you need to know if you want speaking gigs. 

(Know you want to work with him? You can go ahead and book here.)

RELATED EPISODES:  

How Authors Can Get Booked to Speak with Topher Morrison

How to Make Your Book Into a TEDx Talk with Bridget Sampson 

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Well, as you know, you're here because this podcast meets your needs as writers, entrepreneurs and business owners. And you also know how important it is for you to communicate effectively. Warren Buffett, considered the greatest investor that ever lived, made this bold statement, you can improve your value by 50% by learning public speaking, and communication skills. And I'm here to tell you, that's true. And that's why I invited Joel Weldon to be our guest today. So for over 40 years, he's been a Hall of Fame professional speaker and speaking skills coach, having been paid to speak at over 3,000 events. And he has personally coached over 10,000 speakers, including yours truly. He has a very different approach on how to be an even better speaker, which you'll pick up on in this interview. And I can tell you that it works. He trained me when I was lucky enough to speak at the Genius Network annual event, alongside such luminaries as Tony Robbins. And Joel was so patient and worked with me and not only on my delivery and content, but he also gave me this fabulous idea, which was to hold up a sign, which I never would have thought of. So, without further ado, welcome, Joel.

Joel: Well, thank you, Anna.

Anna: That was a brilliant introduction and listeners, because you know, I believe in full disclosure, I will tell you, the Joel wrote that, ah, was that good. It's another thing he does. So hello, and welcome, and thank you for being here. It's an honor to have you on the show.

Joel: Well, it truly is to and as you're listening as an author, you’re here, because you get something out of Anna's show, you get something that you can turn around and put into action. And that's all that counts, you know. Ideas are worthless unless you use them. So this discussion as you read is going to really be about how you can take your book, and use that to get more speaking engagements, how you can get paid to speak, and then more importantly, how to speak even more effectively. You can get speaking engagements, and not do a very good job, it's not going to get you anywhere. You and I have both seen people at Genius get their start by giving a 10-minute talk.

Anna: Joel, personally, coaches, every single person, I go to tell you at Genius Network, I've never seen a bad talk there. Ever.

Joel: Well, I don't coach ever, I coach all the 10-minute talks, and many of the guest speakers, but we have some guest speakers that don't really want to be coached. And it's not so much coaching, it's just helping them understand their audience, which is the first thing that you need to think of. If you're using speaking to grow your business, or to promote your book or to spread the wisdom that you have, you need to make sure that that message is relevant to the people you're talking to. So if there's one piece of advice that will help you be even better, as a speaker, it's know who your audience is.

Anna: Know that I mean, let's say, you know, oh, I'm speaking at a corporation, or I'm speaking at a college because it makes sense to try to get more information from the person who booked you about what sort of executives or what sort of college students?

Joel: Absolutely, yes, because just think about it. Right now, we're going to talk about how to tune up a car engine. But you have a car, don't you?

Anna: I do.

Joel: Is that why you're on this podcast to learn about how to maintain your car? No. So unless you know who your audience is, you just get to give what you think it's important. And that's the biggest mistake I think people make, especially even professional speakers. They begin with something like this. I'm so excited to be here. This is my favorite subject, so here's a little suggestion, no one cares. No one cares about you. Unless what you know and what you have, can benefit them. Would you agree with that? You don't care anything about Joel Weldon. You might care about Anna, but you don't care about me. Unless does this guy know something that I can use, so I can get more effective in front of a group. I can figure out a way to get paid to speak, I can get more speaking engagements. If that's important to you, then you you're in the right place. But if you want to learn how to tune your car go somewhere else. That's not this.

Anna: And it's very relevant. It's the same problem people have with books. And I had for six books, I didn't know that there was an audience for it. Turns out, there wasn't, or I couldn't find them. So if you're lucky enough to be, you know, in front of an audience, yes, know who they are. Again, it's a mistake that I've made in the past. So, you find out by asking the person who booked them. I remember when you helped me, Joel, we actually worked in references to specific people that were in the room. Is that something you recommend always?

Joel: Oh, yes, absolutely. That's one of the powerful ways you can make it more relevant is using people in the group. And I just happened to have, I was talking to somebody, this is a meeting I did, called the RelaDyne National Sales Meeting. These are the names of the people I had worked in to my presentation. And normally, it would be between 20 and 35 people sitting in the seats that I would work in. So as an example, if I was somebody you'll know, imagine just we're talking about how to take the message that's within you and share it with others. Now, one way is to write a book. As an example, Anna David, you have written six books, you help other people write books, you know how important that is. So if I mentioned that in a group, how do you think the group responds? Well, he knows what Anna does. Maybe he knows what we all do, and maybe these ideas then are relevant. But when you hear a canned talk, the first thought that goes through a person's mind is, well, maybe this worked for the last group that person talked to, but it doesn't apply to me. So let me give you a suggestion how to open any message. Three words, if you use this, anytime you gave a presentation, whether there's three people around a coffee table, or 30 people in a small meeting room, or 300 people, and you're on a stage. If you use these three words, you're here because. You're here because you're a writer, you have a book, or you're a business owner, or an entrepreneur. That's how the introduction that I wrote for Anna to read, started. But if you just began that, you're here because you're part of the University of XYZ, and you're in the graduate program, in the business school. And one of the things that you enrolled in this program for, is so you can have a successful career in the business world. Now, if you just began with something like that. So you mentioned about signs, I think signs are important. I have a little sign here. I don't know if you can see it. It's a little small. But it's a giant sign if you're listening to this on audio, and it says, you, if you would just begin your opening of any presentation about your audience, and their name is you. But what do most people say, I'm so excited to be here. Anna, I've been looking forward to doing this interview. Oh, I'm just so pleased I can get to talk about speaking. It's my favorite subject. No one cares.

Anna: Yeah.

Joel: Make it about them. And you're here because it's three words that you can't go wrong opening a message with.

Anna: Do you think everybody should have one of those “you” signs?

Joel: Well, I think they should have it in their head, yes. And so here's a good assignment. As you're listening. Look at the last email you wrote to somebody you do business with. Maybe it's a supplier, maybe it's your editor, maybe it's somebody who got one of your books, or maybe somebody that's hired you to speak. Look at the first two paragraphs, take a pen and circle how many times you said “I” and how many times you said “you.” Now I could be, I, my, you is you, your, or you’re. The chances are, you've got more Is than anything else. That's why “I” is the most frequently used word in the English language. How about writing a book? What do most authors begin with? They talk about themselves. I don't think anyone cares. Unless, what you know and what you're going to share is a benefit to them. So that's rule number one, about speaking, is making it about them. And I remember that talk that you gave about addiction. That's what you began with. You talked about them, that you might have experienced some addiction, or, you know somebody in your life that has.

Anna: And I remember you teaching me to literally, it's possible to turn around an “I” sentence. You may think, well, I got to get this information out because it's about me. And you taught me the, have you ever? You know, and so then have you ever, whatever it was, and then there, you've got the audience engaged, and then you can talk about yourself. I think that's what you taught me?

Joel: Yes, that's one way. The other way is you can just put them in your stories. So people love to tell their personal story. Well, let me give you some advice and your story. No one cares. No one cares why you're doing what you're doing. No one cares why you wrote the book. Unless that can be helpful to them. So, let's just make up something. So I'm going to be an author speaking. I'm just so proud of this book. It took me so many years to first get committed to writing it, and then the years of struggle to write it. But I just wanted to get this message out about pursuing your passion. That's what the book is about is pursuing your passion, and being able to monetize that, when you really get good at doing that. Okay, so what if instead, you started like this, just imagine that you had something burning inside of you. An idea, but you wanted to share that idea with others, and you didn't know how to do it, then you meet somebody, and they tell you one of the best ways to do it is to write a book. But that's exactly what happened to me three years ago, when I met Anna David. So just imagine you've got this burning desire, and you meet somebody like Anna and she tells you that there's a certain process to writing a book. And you soak in every word that she tells you because she's done a lot of this. But then you reach a roadblock, and maybe you just can't figure out what to do next. That's exactly what happened to me six weeks after I got started. And maybe what I did would be helpful for you.

Anna: I love it.

Joel: Alright, so that's what I call putting your audience in the story or just saying something like this if it's an “I” story. So there I was struggling I didn't know what to do. I was experiencing writer's block. I tried meditation, I tried ice plunges, I tried everything. What would you do? What would you do if you just couldn't get going on something? That's another way to draw your listeners into your message or to your story. What would you do? What would you be thinking if that happened to you? How would you respond to something like that?

Anna: I hope you guys are taking notes on these intros. It's so good. So Joel, let me ask you selfishly. So I have a new keynote, and listener, I'm taking Joel's advice, put yourself in my situation. I've got a new keynote. And I want to do more corporate speaking. And so the path I'm taking, I have a friend who is a big corporate speaking agent. And so what we actually did, is we went first to Google, and my talk could be molded. It could be about goals, it could be about wellness, it covers a lot of topics, and we looked, and best wellness speakers and best happiness speakers, everybody had bought up those Google words. What we discovered was, there wasn't so much about goal setting. And that's a topic that corporations are interested in. So, I made my keynote around goal setting. And then I said, well, I need practice and I need a reel. So I asked some friends, I asked our mutual friend, Tim Westbrook. I said, hey, could I come to Arizona to give this talk to your people in your rehab? And he said yes, and he said he would buy the book copies for everybody who was there. And I went out and did it. And of course, things went wrong. They always do. And that's great, because then you get to learn what to not do the next time. So then, I'm sorry, this is a long question. But I'm also walking you through what you can do. Then I said, well, I want really good video footage. So I actually booked a studio near me, I actually got my makeup done, and I went to that studio, and I delivered it as if I were on a stage. And now I have another rehab. It's the employees of a rehab that I'm speaking to next week, and I'm also going to get footage. Well, the footage at the studio didn't go great either because he cut off part of me. Even a professional is going to do that. But I'm going to be able to create a reel where I'm taking different bits of the speech from those different experiences, the video that works, and I'm going to have a great reel. Is that what you would recommend Joel?

Joel: Well, I've never done that. My career was never built on, I had no demo video. I never did marketing. I didn't know anything about marketing until I joined Genius Network, and that was well at the end of my career, even though I'm still speaking now. But all I can tell you is, that if you want to get paid to speak, you need to have something that people are willing to pay to hear. Now, in this age of the internet, and we know AI is coming next, which is going to overshadow the internet, that you can find almost anything. You can find information, but you can't always find the way to connect that information to the audience. And that's why my recommendation from the very beginning when we talked about this, including people in the audience, is talking about things that are relevant to them. So let's say your subject is goals, which was one of the subjects that I always talked about as well. How does that apply to this audience? So, let's just say you're going to Tim Westbrook's audience, again, these are people that have had an addiction problem. They're involved in living in one of his homes, but they have a job and a career, but they need to be focused and surrounded by people, so they have sobriety or kick those addiction, correct?

Anna: Yes. But I would love to talk about how to take that and get the reel or get whatever it is you do need to get paid and then get to those people. So if not a reel, what should people put together? They should have a one sheet, you didn't have to do that, but most people listening are going to have to put something together in order to get paid to speak. What should that be?

Joel: Raving fans.

Anna: Great.

Joel: If you think about that, how do you spread, how do you start a restaurant that people want to come back to? You put out great food? You wow the people you have, so that when they see what you do, they want to see you do it again. So I built my career on a statement that Walt Disney used to make Disneyland a success. Now I don't know, you're in California. Have you ever heard of Disneyland or Disney World?

Anna: Yes.

Joel: Oh, you have? Would you say it's a successful organization?

Anna: Yes.

Joel: Very successful. Have you been there many times?

Anna: I have.

Joel: In your lifetime?

Anna: Yes. But I really want to get to how people can get booked. Yes, Disneyland's amazing.

Joel: Well, I'm going to give you the answer, because Walt Disney gave it in 1955 on how he built Disneyland. And this is how you build a speaking career. Here’s what he said, “do what you do so well, that when people see what it is you do, they want to see you do it again, and will bring others to show them what it is you do.” That's how we're going to sell Disneyland. And in 1955, they put on a great program. So that's my recommendation, speak for free. Get out in front of some place.

Anna: On a practical level, how do you speak for free? Who do you reach out to, your Chamber of Commerce?

Joel: No, you start out with everybody you know, and you say something like this. Anna, you and I have been friends for years, and I don't know if you know that in my XYZ business, I also am speaking now. I created an amazing talk on goal setting. Are you part of any kind of organization that brings in speakers that you'd be willing to recommend me to?

Anna: That’s great.

Joel: Okay. So, there's the first place to start. Everybody, you know, that likes and trusts you. Many of them are part of an organization where they bring in speakers for meetings. And many of them are involved in who they choose. They don't know that you do that. So that's the first place to go. It costs you nothing. But it's amazing how it works. Second suggestion, when you get one talk, get feedback. Use a blank card, whether it's an index card, and on that card, just ask the audience to write three things. On a 1-10 scale, how valuable was this talk on goal setting for you? Number two, what's your one best takeaway of all the things we talked about, you know, 30 minutes together, what's the one thing that was most helpful? Third question, what could I have done to make this presentation even better for you? Okay, no names on the card. Now. If you like this message, and you rate it at over a seven or an eight, and you got some good ideas, is there any group that you think could benefit from this idea that I should be talking to? If so, would you just put your name and phone number on the back? And I'll call you. And I'd be happy to follow through and find out who this group is.

Anna: So good.

Joel: Okay. So, there you have somebody who just saw you speak. Now, this is all predicated, and of course, you meet the requirement to kind of be good. Yeah. Because if you give a terrible presentation, if Disneyland was filthy and dirty, and they employees was sullen and angry at you, nobody would go back. But that was why that Walt Disney statement was the key, do what you do so well, that when other people see what it is you do, they want to see you do it again. Why did Joe have me at Genius Network work with these speakers for eight years? Because he saw what happened to a 10-minute talk, when I coached them. And now everybody is coached by that. I didn’t advertise, I didn't have a sizzle reel, I just did a great job. And that's what you can do. Whatever you doing, marketing helps advertising helps, but are you the real deal? How do you get a book to be sold? It’s got to be a good book. Sure, you can market it in the beginning. But eventually, if it's a terrible book, that stops helping you. But if people buy 10 copies, because they want everyone in their family to have one, and talk about it at a meeting, then you got something going. Like I'm thinking of writing a book called Party Girl, but I'm not sure.

Anna: On a practical level, you said get raving fans. Perhaps when you finish, you could get some testimonials while people are still on the high. Hey, what’d you think? They're like, I loved it. Could I capture a video of you saying that?

Joel: Well, that's what I was going to recommend. This is a reel should be, a reel should be testimonials.

Anna: Love it.

Joel: But no one cares about you. Now, if you have say, and you know, it can be a sign that says R.B. New York. No, it's got to be a first name and a last name, and a company name. Anna David, you know, such and such company, and then a testimonial. That's what I had, raving fans. So, and again, what I did is not relevant in today's world, because things have changed. But the concept is still true. The best way to get repeat business is to be amazing the first time, how do you become amazing? You make the message about them, and you make it about their situation. So, I started to say about goals. If you're talking to somebody, like Tim Westbrook's group, so let's talk about the goal, like what's your first goal when you leave this rehab center? Do you remember your first goal when you decided to become sober? Do you remember your, then you're talking about them. So when talking to Tim, I would say Tim, what are some of the kinds of goals that you recommend people have once they start to get ready to leave your facility? What do you call these things? What are some examples of what you've used? And that's what you talk about, things that are in their world. So like that list of people that I showed you here, these are all people that exemplified some of the qualities I talked about in my message. So I'm looking at this one name here. Troy Gold, who is the best in customer service. So I asked my client, who's really terrific, oh, Troy, they love him. I said, what does Troy do? He just follows up so well. So all of that became part of it. So rather than saying in a generic term, you know, one of the things that customer service is so important, you got to follow up with people. If somebody calls you don't have an answer, you get back to them. That's ordinary. But if you said something like here’s one of the keys to being effective in customer service, is to follow up with something like Troy Gold. If somebody calls Troy and he doesn't have an answer, you know what happens? He calls them back in 24 hours and if he still doesn't have an answer, he tells them to call him back in another 24 hours. What if you did the same thing that Troy did? By the way, let's give Troy a great hand for being number one customer service the last five years at Anna David's company. Right? So not only does that edify people in the audience, it shows the audience that you've done your homework, and you know about Troy, plus the fact, that you using that information to make a point that they can use. Rather than say, you know, when I was in service, I was always the best customer service person in the company, and one of the things I always did was I called people back in 24 hours. Why don't you do that, which would have more impact?

Anna: Troy

Joel: The reason Troy is so good, is because Troy's doing what they're doing. I wasn't in your business; I don't have any credibility. So when I hear people always using themself as an example, they're missing the boat. Find out what everybody else is doing, don't do it. Don’t compete, create, be unique. And you are unique because you're an individual. That's what makes a great speaker is being yourself. Not acting, not performing. That's why I love Anna when she talks. Anna is Anna. And if I talked to people who know her, what’s Anna David really like? What you see is what you get. Isn’t that what they say about you, Anna, you're always the same.

Anna: I’m always the same.

Joel: We went to a party at Joe's house, we sat together we've talked, you're just like you are now, there's no difference. It's not a performance. Speaking effectively, is not acting. It's not how to use your voice and your body. That's ridiculous. Then you’re making it about yourself and you’re thinking about yourself, your voice, your movements, be natural, but know your audience. If there's one thing that will help you become a speaker and a paid speaker. And one other thing, too, you have a business. You don't necessarily have to get paid to make money. If you have a product or service, you can talk about or your book, many speakers began their career, Zig Ziglar began speaking free by selling his book.

Anna: In terms of getting paid, let's say you have raving fans, all of that, what do you do next?

Joel: Well then you use them to get as many speaking engagements as you can. And there is a way of course with social media, you can put things out like that. There are all kinds of organizations where they have lists of meetings, but I don't find that works very well. It's really using referrals, your own centers of influence, and then putting stuff out on YouTube, putting your material out on goals, a 10-minute video and goals. And by the way, if you liked this message on goals, that's just the beginning of a keynote speech that I can give. Look up Anna David, and I'll tell you more. So putting things out like that.

Anna: And then you just try to get as much traffic as you can, or you show it to your people that you know. We know that Joel is a professional because he's showing me the clock that's at 28 minutes and we got to get, we got to get close to wrapping up. And I know that Joel, first of all, I want people to know how they can reach you. And I want you to give your parting wisdom. So first of all, how can they reach you?

Joel: Well, the easiest way is if well, you can look at www.ultimatespeaker.com, that shows what we have in our coaching programs or our product. Or if you're serious about speaking and want to take it to the next level, get on my calendar, make a 15-minute appointment. Let's talk about it. www.talktojoel.com Just www.talktojoel.com leads you right to my calendar appointment.

Anna: So, what are your parting words, Joel?

Joel: Well, as you're listening to this podcast, and you have a book, or you have a business that you're passionate about, and you want to speak about it, and you're going to use speaking to grow what you're doing. Here are 22 words, to think of. If I was to sum up everything I've learned about speaking here it's for you in 22 words. You ready? Speak to your audience about what they need, in an organized way they can follow, and get yourself out of the way.

Anna: Genius. Well, thanks so much, Joel. And thank you all for listening and go do it. Just remember those 22 words. I hope you took notes throughout this one, but in case you didn't, there will be a full transcript of the episode at www.legacylaunchpadpub.com/blog/joel. And I'll have links to all things related to Joel on how you can reach out to them. So thank you so much for listening and thank you Joel.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

How to Manifest a Today Show Appearance with Rachel Luna

 

Rachel Luna kinda defies explanations and bios.

But if you're going to make me put her into one of these boxes, FINE! Here goes: she's an international speaker, podcast host, former U.S. Marine and cancer thriver. In addition to all that, she's a coach who hosts retreats.

As if that wasn't enough, she's now also a bestselling author: her new book, Permission to Offend, has not only been creating waves with its unapologetic, brazen and yet hilarious voice but has also landed Luna on the Today show.

In this episode, she walks us through the exact steps she took to make that Today show appearance happen—as well as who's been sliding into her DMs since that appearance, how to make self-help material fresh, methods for speaking up around your book launch and so much more.

RELATED EPISODES:  

What NY Times Bestselling Author Jennifer K. Armstrong Learned About Launches

Gina DeVee on Finding Gratitude When Your Book Comes Out a Terrible Time

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Well, listeners didn't get to hear me fawn over you. But they can imagine. Rachel, I adore you. I am so happy you're here to talk to me.

Rachel: I am so grateful to be here, Anna, and I love you too. You know this,

Anna: We had an Instagram love affair. And I'll tell you something, there's a lot of people I start talking to over Instagram. And then they're like, let's set a call. And I'm like, no, I didn't mean for it to go this far. And, and then we set this call, and you just cracked me up. And I'm like, she's my friend. Because when I think about you, I don't think of you as someone I've never met. You feel like someone I've met. You know?

Rachel: 100% 100%. The feeling is so mutual. And I'm laughing because I understand what you mean. And I say this all the time. No new friends. No new friends, no. Sorry my kids are making noise in the background. It's President stay here at the time of this recording. And in that, but, but it's not their fault. I have ample space. I usually do these calls in my office for having some internet stuff. So I'm in the area, but all that to say I overstand. And it's not that, it’s not that we don't want to make new friends. It's just that, I don't know. Well, yes, I think this is a safe assumption for me to make about you as well as for myself. I know this is true. I am a very good friend. I'm loyal. I show what, I'm the kind of friend that you can call at two in the morning. And because I am that way, I can’t have that many friends because I can't have all of you disrupting my eight hours.

Anna: Fair. Fair. I'll be, I’m not that kind of friend. My phone's off. So do not call me at 2am. I absolutely love you. And if I'm awake, I will 1000% be there for you. But please don't try to wake me up because it won't work. But let's talk about your amazingness. So, so okay, I want to get into, I didn't know till I got your book, which was just the other day, that you were on the Today Show. I somehow missed this. And I was just watching it. I'm someone who's been on The Today Show and seen a bunch of people on it. And I know what it's like when you kill and you killed! You just seemed so comfortable. Were you?

Rachel: Yes, I belong there. And I'll tell you why. I, that has been my dream for more than a decade. Literally, Anna, my dream. So one of the things I like to say to people is don't get ready, be ready, because you don't know the day or the hour when your dream is, when you're going to be given an opportunity to walk out your dream. So let me tell you how, can I tell you how that happened?

Anna: Please, please.

Rachel: Okay, good. So, literally a decade ago, more than a decade ago to be, to be honest, I was, had this great idea. I'm gonna start a business. I had a two-year-old and a three month old, had no business starting a business with everything that was going on. We had just moved to Japan. I had no friends, no job. And I mean, it was identity crisis overload. And I decide I'm gonna start this business. Every morning at 10am, which is when the Today Show would air, I would have my cup of coffee in hand, café con leche because I'm Puerto Rican. My journal and I would sit and at the time it was Hoda and Kathie Lee. Okay, so I would watch these women on the Today Show. And I remember saying and thinking, I'm going to be on the Today Show one day. I'm going to be chatting with these ladies. And it's going to be wine day, wine day Wednesday, or whatever, you know, the day that they drink the wine, and I had this vision. So with my journal, I would literally take notes, I would pay attention to who they were bringing on, what kind of segments they were doing. And I remember thinking many, many times, like what could I talk about on the Today Show? Like, I'm not famous. I'm not an expert. I gotta figure out a way to make myself remarkable enough to get on the show. That right there is the work that most people don't even think about doing. They overlook the visioneering. They overlook the relevancy that they need to have in order to even get on the show. So but years pass and the dream is dimming away. And I'm thinking to myself, it's never gonna happen. I'm never gonna be on the Today Show because I don't have anything to offer. And so I began just going outward, like okay, let me just focus on helping other people. I never give up the dream. I just shift and focus on other things complementary to the dream. I write this book, and I did what I teach. I started journaling around it and then I, I have aphantasia. Do you know what that is Anna?

Anna: No.

Rachel: Aphantasia is where you don't have a Mind's Eye, meaning you can't, you don't have imagination for things that you've never seen or experienced. So if you say to me, picture a shiny, picture an apple, what, an apple on a table. For me, it's a dark room. And, the apple is like gray, and it's on like a gray, I know it's gingham. But it's gray in my mind, right? There's no colors or anything. But if you tell me picture, the, the bag of green apples that you got from Publix yesterday, I, it's in color now. And even then it's not bright or shiny, because I can't bring that into my mind. So when you have aphantasia, vision boards work really well, because now you can actually see something to bring it up into recall. When you have aphantasia, you can only bring things up from recall. It's very, very hard to imagine. So whenever I would do those meditations, and they're like, picture yourself in an elevator going down, then I'm like in an elevator, I'm in a dark hole. And it's dark in here, you know? Anyway, so I decide I'm going to create a media vision board, so that I can see myself on the shows and I go into Canva. And I like superimpose my face on to all these TV shows. And, and I may sound silly, but doing that was able to really help me see myself. Then I started watching old clips of authors on the Today Show, just to see what kind of questions they were asking? What were they wearing? Where were they sitting? Right, just bringing all of this. And there was one point where my, the Harper one, which is who I was published with, they did provide a publisher for me.

Anna: A publicist.

Rachel: Shout out, shout out, a publicist. Yes. Sorry, publicist. So she was fantastic. And she, she says, can you do some videos for me? And I said, sure, no problem. Now I take the time Anna to create highly polished videos, these are not shot on my iPhone. And it's very clear what this book is about, what is Permission to Offend? Who is it for? Why does this book matter? Who am I? Why do I matter? And I put together a beautiful package. And I say to her, here's my media vision board. These are all the places that I want to be. And I will go, wherever you get me, I will send myself there. So there has to be this willingness to go above and beyond. There has to be a willingness to make an investment on a dream that you don't know is going to pay out because it cost me 1000s of dollars to get all these assets together. And it was a crapshoot. Those assets were actually requested by GMA, and GMA passed. So sad for them.

Anna: It’s literally too bad. Well, they'll come around later, maybe if you'll have them. Go on.

Rachel: And so, as she says, you got the Today Show. They want to know if you can come on this day. And I am hyperventilating, screaming, and I'm thinking to myself, this has to be a dream. Do you know Anna, that I said nothing to no one until like, the very end. And then my husband got COVID about a week and a half before I'm supposed to go on the Today Show. And I am like, no, no, no, get away from me. I quarantine him. I'm like, you are not allowed to come out. I'm going to be on the Today Show. And you will not ruin this for me. And then I prepared. I hired a media coach. So shout out to Linnea Floyd, who was amazing. I highly, highly, highly recommend her. Anna, that was another investment. Okay, big investment for like a 90-minute thing, a 90-minute session and her helping me. Again, it’s like the investments that you're willing to make on a chance. And it paid off because every single person that has watched that segment has told me that I crushed it. Do you know Anna, ready for this? My publicist was walking by the control booth at the Today Show. They came out of the control booth to tell her what a great guest I was and how they’re all talking about it in the control room. She says to me, I have been here with hundreds of clients. They have never come out of the booth.

Anna: I mean, it was the response I had too because I've had a lot of friends I know who've gotten their big break, gotten on shows like that, but not gone about it the way you did with that sort of preparation with that sort of intention. I certainly never did myself. And because I'm so, I'm used to watching them and like, oh, it's the first time on a big show. Like they're kind of uncomfortable, but like, they didn't screw up. You were like, owning it. You, they were trying to keep up with you. You're way better than them. I don't think they, think that that's like an outrageous thing to say. They are reading from cards and like, I don't know, and I loved that you could say and look, here, I am living my dream, like that you actually, who gets to go on that show and say like, this was what I wanted. And here I am in this moment. It's like so meta, I love it. So what has been the result of that?

Rachel: Well, we had a really great halo of sales, which I was also surprised because they said TV shows don't sell books anymore. And I was like, well, let's find out. And it did. We had a great halo of sales. I was really grateful for that. You know, it's really, okay. I want to tell you this, because this, you're my friend. And I'm like, wait a minute, there's like, a lot of people are going to be listening. But

Anna: Do you want to tell me after we're recording, and then…

Rachel: No, it's good. It's better for the audience. Let's tell them.

Anna: Yeah, tell them.

Rachel: You know what the result was? Is that all these people that counted me out, started sliding into my DMs. All these people that would give me no airtime. All of a sudden, Hey, girl. Oh, my gosh, you're on the Today Show? And I'm the type, listen, I'm real. I'm almost too real. So don't come at me. You know, with all of that. But I, I was cordial and polite. Like, oh, hey, girl. Yes, I was, thank you. How do you, how did that happen? What were you doing? No, get out of here. I have zero time for you because you did not have time for me. And now you just want to, like clout chase with me? No, no. So that was interesting. Now, I will say this. I'm also nobody's fool. So I don't burn bridges intentionally. If a bridge has to be burned, it has to be burned. But I'm not a bridge burner. So I, I thank them for their time and attention. And I just kept it moving, but that, I knew it was gonna happen. But I was disappointed. Does that make sense?

Anna: Yeah, but I'm different than you. I would find that incredibly gratifying. No, you didn't? You found it sad? I'd be like, Yeah, I mean, you'd come for me. Sorry, you don't have time, you don't have that feeling, huh?

Rachel: Oh, no, I don't have that feeling. Because it makes me sad for them. I feel bad for them. I feel sad for them that, in all this time, they could have had a genuine friendship with me. And I am such a good friend, and they’ve missed out on all these opportunities. And now I don't trust you. So you will never have me like that, with a friend.

Anna: Yeah.

Rachel: You will only ever have me at an arm's length. Because I don't believe you. I don't believe who you are. I don't believe the character or integrity behind the person.

Anna: And so these were like influencer chicks or something like that? They're like, is that the type? I mean, it was all types, but what kind of person?

Rachel: I mean, it's people that I've known for years, it's people that I've been in groups and circles and programs and events with that, you know, they're all, they're all kiki in the moment. And then like, it's to the winds. And to me, I, I get that we have seasons, right? So you and I will have a season where we're chatting all the time. And then it'll be months where we don't chat. But I know that I could call you, out of left, and we'd be good. Because we've created a genuine connection. And with, with, in particular, there were a couple of small handful where I, we were, I thought, friends. But as their, their rise was, they were accelerating faster than me. And so as they accelerated, they didn't, they couldn't be bothered to have that level of connection with me anymore. Because you know, I  wasn't in that circle.

Anna: Got it.

Rachel: Now, my, my star is rising too. And now it's like, oh, I knew her, what, no, you. No, get out of here.

Anna: Yes. And I sure do. And so then you're using that Today Show to get on other shows, yeah?

Rachel: Yes. So we are pitching, and then of course holidays have rolled in, so we'll see, I'm definitely, this is what I told my publicist. As I said, go back, go back to everyone. She's like, yes, I am. What angle should we do here? And you know, so that is the other thing is that I'm very hands on and collaborative. I'm really not leaving anything in anyone else's hands. Because especially when you sign with a publisher like Harper, I'm not the only author. They have dozens of other authors. And they're very understaffed.

Anna: Yes.

Rachel: So you have to be willing to advocate for yourself, give yourself permission to offend, like I talk about in my book. And you'll be, step up and say, look, this is what I want to, here's the pitch, here's the this, here are the assets. What else do you need? And if you want to give me your contact list, I'll email them myself.

Anna: And let me ask you this, are you willing to share those assets that you created that got you booked? Like, can I put those in the show notes? Or is that not something that's public?

Rachel: Like the like, like, request stuff like that

Anna: Yeah, you, the thing that like you were like, I'm investing, I'm putting together videos. I'm not going to do them on iPhones? I'm gonna do some legit videos. Is that something…

Rachel: Yeah, I can send you one of them.

Anna: Yes. People want to see them.

Rachel: And, um, they're not highly produced. And like, it's not cinematic.

Anna: Right.

Rachel: But it's well done.

Anna: Yeah.

Rachel: And I think that's important as well, you know. Because sometimes we get caught up in like, I have to have this huge budget for cinematic whatever, whatever. No, just a really well done like, can you get the message out clearly? Can you convey, you know, who you are and why this matters? And why now?

Anna: Did you, for that Today Show booking, did, was there a press release as well? Or did you just put in a video?

Rachel: No, there was a press release, I can send that too.

Anna: And what was the time peg? Like I think people need to know that, you know, we invent these we make it newsworthy, you know, my book on writing was newsworthy during the pandemic, because hey, writing helps you heal. What was your news peg for this?

Rachel: Like, what was our angle?

Anna: Yeah. Like why now?

Rachel: Oh, the antidote to cancel culture.

Anna: Yes. I love it.

Rachel: The antidote to cancel culture.

Anna: Yes. And then the nice thing with a book like this, too, is, I mean, I'm just riffing here, but it's like, then it could be like, a Mother's Day angle. Women. Yeah. You know, a holiday angle, like

Rachel: Women's history is coming up. And we're gonna add that too. The, the great thing about my book is that it really hits every facet of life, right? So relationships, business, your internal perception, identity, boundaries, decision making. It really is an all-encompassing book. So we can hit it from any angle 365. I mean, I'm pitching the Rachael Ray Show for crying out loud. My publicist said, how are we going to tie it in with food? I said, great. I'm a breast cancer survivor. And I healed with the Gerson Therapy, which was, you know, all these cancer-fighting meals. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about how I gave myself permission to offend. We'll drill down on chapter two on identity, she's gonna love it.

Anna: And so these are all, I, did, did the publicist, did you hire an outside publicist or you're only working with the Harper Collins publicist?

Rachel: I am only working with the Harper publicist? Because, girl, these publicists are no joke. We're looking at for, for at least the ones that I wanted to work with, it was like $6,000 a month, retainer. Anna: Yeah.

Rachel: And I just was, I have two kids that go to private school.

Anna: Yeah, I mean, I think what you did, that's key. What I used to do, when I had Harper as my publishers, I would sort of successfully alienate the publisher, the publicist, because I'd be so angry that like, I didn't feel like I was getting the time, like, what you're doing is you’re understanding that they're very busy, very overworked, by the way, very underpaid. And you're actually assisting that. Which is only going to make them want to help you.

Rachel: Yeah, I really, I mean, I created my own graphics for crying out loud. Because they weren't, they were just, they had so much going on. And I tried to put myself in my editor’s position, who by the way, she wasn't my acquisition editor. My acquisition editor left.

Anna: Right.

Rachel: And now my editor Sydney, God bless her inherited my project, a bunch of other projects, and she got promoted all in the same fell swoop. And then three of her books got on the New York Times bestsellers list. So, you know, I could have spent a lot of time being angry and frustrated. And I definitely had my moments of like, I felt where I wasn't getting any kind of response. But you know, Anna, I followed exactly what I teach in my book, Permission to Offend. And I stuck up for myself. When they were not responding to me in any kind of a timely manner, I sent an email and I said, listen, I understand that you're really busy. But it would be out of integrity for me not to say anything. The, you told me that you would respond to me in a timely manner. And that hasn't happened. And I'm beginning to tell myself stories that you don't value me as an author. And she received this so well. Why did she receive it? Because she read the book. And she knew I was the embodiment of my work. And that changed everything for us.

Anna: Yeah. And when you're coming from a place of authenticity, nobody cares that you're sticking up for yourself in a way that might point out their inadequacies. Because you're being authentic.

Rachel: Right.

Anna: Okay, well, we were going, we don't have time, we were going to also talk about what I was telling you, which is that I am just going to be totally real, picked up the book thinking, I probably don't have time to read this. I love this girl, so I'll definitely give it a good skim. I mean, sure. And literally could not put it down, brought it into my bed last night, most books don't make it into my bed. So, and I said, you know, I just I'm really kind of over self-help and that's why I didn't really think I would respond to this. And, and we started talking about this idea that it feels like everything's been written, but it hasn't. You want to just speak to that?

Rachel: Yes. So everything has been written. There's no grand new idea. But there are so many ways to tell a new story, using an old principle. And this is why, you know, if you read the Bible, Jesus told parables, he taught in stories. And I think that that's what we've forgotten, especially in the self-help realm. It's so prescriptive, it's almost like step one, step two, step three. There's nothing engaging, there's nothing that actually shows me that, wait a minute, maybe this author actually does have an interesting perspective. Because authors are, in my opinion, getting lazy. We're writing, we're so conditioned to writing captions that are limited. So we're not taking the time to draw out the story to go deeper to actually think, what is the question that the reader has after I write this sentence? And can I speak to that? My process is, can I speak to the thought underneath the thought? That my readers experiencing?

Anna: Yep. And you do that really well with like, even your opening anecdote with this, you know, and you guys are all gonna buy the book, but basically, so it's not a spoiler alert, but like, you know, kids, husband, let's go have a fun day, culminates in like snapping at husband. But then it goes back and it's like, it walks you through. Okay, so when my kids were on their computers, it made me feel like I was a bad mom. And it kind of just leads you through each thought. And whether you've had that exact experience or not, you can relate to it because you're like, oh, right. It's just really walking back every emotional outburst. I don't know. I love it.

Rachel: That’s, well, quick question. Did you read the intro?

Anna: I did. I read the intro, so I can tell you actually where I am.

Rachel: Okay, I was gonna say because the intro, I want to mention this: I skip introductions, always. And I did not want to write an introduction. In fact, we went around a couple of circles. My editor and I, she was like, you're writing an intro. I'm like, no, I am not writing an introduction. They suck. And she's like, you have to write an intro Rachel, please just take a stab at it.

Anna: Oh, yes. I can't believe, that’s so interesting that the intro did not stand out to me when it is quite standoutable.

Rachel: So that's, that's why I asked if you read it, because that's the feedback that I've been getting from people is like the intro alone, like sucks you into the story. We won't tell them that.

Anna: Can I tell you what's interesting? Because of the people I attract and the sort of books that I publish and people I know. That was less memorable to me than the mundane stuff because, because a lot of the books that, it's a shocking thing and it'll just anyone who reads the book and hears me say that will be like you're the most jaded fucking person ever. But it's true. Um, so yeah, that's interesting. That did not stick out. I mean, it's horrible, but it didn't. It didn't stick out to me.

Rachel: Yeah, But I'll tell you this, though. Well, because we're talking about writing things from a different perspective, right? I hate introductions. So I wrote one worth reading.

Anna: Yep.

Rachel: And this is what my, my cry to all of the nonfiction authors in the world reminder to myself is, let's write books that we want to read over and over and over again. Because if you can read your own book over and over and over again and still look at it and think, damn, that's good. That's how you know. I have read my book eight times. now Anna, eight. Because I read it every time I had a draft that I was turning in, I read it out loud. And then I read it out loud for the audiobook. And then I read it again once they sent me the physical copy, once I had the real one. I read it again. I love my book. And by the way, can I just talk about that for a second?

Anna: Yes.

Rachel: I, as I was writing it, remember thinking this is crap. I hate, like this is not going to be good enough. And I just kept fine tuning, fine tuning, fine tuning. There is one chapter that's like, you know, the least favorite chapter. And I won’t tell, I always tell people read the book and tell me which was your least favorite. And let's see if we have our same least favorite chapters. But they're all my favorites. And I, go ahead…

Anna: Do they pick, do the people pick the same one as you?

Rachel: No, everyone has said, I don't know what you're talking about?

Anna: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah, no one has found it. Yeah, everyone has said I loved, I, cover to cover I've loved it. I don't know where you're talking about.

Anna: Oh, yeah, I have a book I wrote where I hate the whole book. And whenever someone emails me and says they like it, I have zero respect for them, and I delete it. But it really, yeah, this book deserves no respect. You deserve all the respect in the world, and I just adore you. So is there any, are there any final words you want to leave listeners with?

Rachel: Ooh my gosh, I hate when people do this to me, because I’m such a wordy person,

Anna: I know, I’m so sorry.

Rachel: Okay, final thought is: check out the book. We, go on to Amazon, read the sample, give it a go. Because at worst you'll, you know, invest a couple of minutes. At best, it'll change your life. And I can say that with full authority because writing the book has changed my life and all of the readers that have at least responded back to me. It has already completely shifted things for them. So give it a go. And at a minimum, connect to your truth and activate it immediately, if not sooner.

Anna: And if people want to find out more about you, they should definitely go to Amazon to get the book, but where can they find you?

Rachel: At rachelluna.com And since you're already listening to a podcast, definitely check out my podcast, Permission to Offend. And I'm on Instagram @girlconfident. I do respond to DMs, so DM me.

Anna: I love it. Rachel, thank you so, so much. And you all thank you for listening.

Rachel: Thank you.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

 

Without Readers, You've Written a Journal

 

Journals are awesome. Been using 'em since I was six. I've even published a few myself.

But the difference between the journals I've published and the books I've written is that the journals are not meant to be read by anyone once I've filled them with words.

The books are.

But Field of Dreams was wrong! Just because you write it does not mean that they will come.

You have to determine your audience, find them and write a book specifically for them. This episode breaks down how.

It's based on the book I'm writing. Speaking of, if you want exclusive stories, resources and info about this book as I write it, you can sign up for that on annadbook.com.

RELATED EPISODES:  

Make Sure Your Book is Muzzy Approved with Dave Chesson

Why to Read Those A**hole Amazon Reviews with Jay Abraham

Yes, Publishers Treat You Differently Once You Hit the NY Times List with Jennifer Keishan Armstrong

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Well, hello there. Welcome to the podcast, Anna David here. If you're new to the show, welcome. It's where I talk to authors and entrepreneurs and myself about how to launch a book that will actually build your authority and not just sit on your shelf. So, this is another solo episode based on the book that I am currently writing. And if you want to sign up to get more information, a front row seat as I move towards launch, where I'm sharing all the latest stuff that I'm doing, just go to www.annadbook.com, and you shall be added to that list.

So, today's episode, I am focusing on the number one most important thing when it comes to a book, as well as the number one thing that most people ignore. And that is that you need an audience, if you're going to launch a book.

Take it from somebody who did six books without ever thinking about an audience. One, a novel based on my recovery, one a fictionalized version of a details magazine story I wrote about prostitution, one on reality shows, why not, one on less. There was no consistency, there was no thinking about, I did a book on reality TV without bothering to think, oh, hey, reality TV fans want to watch reality TV and not read books about it. And you know what, people who don't watch reality to TV probably don't want to read a book about something they don't care about.

So, I cannot explain the importance of this, and if you're familiar with Bernie, my cat, he certainly agrees because he's crawling all around. He wants you to have readers. I often say without readers, you've written a journal. So, the delusion that we all suffer from in previous episode about rose colored glasses, I talked about how we all secretly think we're going to be the exception, even though we hear, oh the average book sells 300 copies, we kind of just go well, but you know what, you know what? I've always kind of thought I was like going to do well, you know what I mean? And you know, she's very fabulous. And Guido meets with Kamala Harris and sells millions of copies without someone to do it. I could do that, too. No, no.

You know, the very first agent I ever talked to you who was a complete douchebag, and really, frankly, quite creepy, said something to me that has always stuck with me, which is I said, I want to do a book of essays, because Sex in the City was both a very big book and big show at the time. And I said it could be like Sex in the City. And he said, never compare yourself to the exception. Compare yourself to the rule. You can always be pleasantly surprised if you are that lotto ticket that happens to win. But it's probably not going to happen. So certainly go into it expecting that.

So how on earth do you find readers? The bad news is that it's all that stuff that you're probably not comfortable doing, which is audience building. The good news is that you're not alone. We all hate it at first. And then just like you hate running on the treadmill, the very first time you did it and then you do more, and then you don't hate it. And then one day you find yourself kind of craving that treadmill. I wouldn't say I ever crave audience building, but I look at it as another way to share what I'm passionate about with people who are also passionate about it.

So, it requires a lot of work at first to get anyone to care. And it's very easy to compare and despair and say, oh, this person has 10,000 followers and I don't have any. Well, everybody started with the same amount, which is one. So just start and the fewer people there are, the more you can experiment and take risks and not worry. So this whole concept of the riches are in the niches, is that you want a group of people who will feel like the book that you've created is just for them.

When I was writing, Make Your Mess Your Memoir, which is the last book I wrote before the one I'm currently writing, I thought about two people as I wrote. They're married to each other. And I apologize if you've heard me talk about this on the show before, but they are my surrogate parents. Not really, they're not old enough. And they haven't totally agreed to this, but I know them from Genius Network, this Mastermind I'm a part of, and they're just lovely. I've just always loved them. And years and years ago, they said, you know we need to, they’ve done a book, but we need to do another book. You know, maybe we'll hire your company to do it. And I said that would be great. And then nothing happened. And then, you know, we were working with other clients, I forgot about it. But then when I sat down to write Make Your Mess Your Memoir, I thought about them. And I thought about them not once, not twice, but pretty much every page. I said, would that speak to them? Would that speak to Michael and Ros? Would they be offended by that? Would they understand that? And I thought about them on every page.

And when the book came out, you know, I was lucky enough to get on Good Morning America. And lots of people read the book and lots of people hired my company. Now when I say lots of people, I don't mean hundreds, I mean that we have this very high-ticket expensive offer. So just 10 people hiring us as a result of reading that book, is a year's worth of business.

Michael and Ros, they didn't read it. They didn't even know about it. Maybe two years later, no, I know exactly when it was, it was from the time I’m recording, a year ago, I run into them, at a Genius Network thing. And I say, oh my God, I have the funniest thing to tell you. I wrote a book for you guys. And they just go, what? And I said, I know, it's crazy, but whenever I write a book, I try to think of one person or two people, and I just thought of you guys on every page. And they said, what is this book? And I said, oh, it's over in the gifting suite. And they went and got a copy. And guess what, they hired us, we're now working on their book. That's really like a cute story and they're adorable people.

But the point is, it’s so much easier to write for one person or a very small group of people. Because if there's one of them, there's many. I've also said before, I would rather have 100 people read my book and be completely moved by it, and hire my company than 10,000, who don't really care. So, if you have 100 people, and they feel like it's written for them, you know what happens when you feel like something, think of something that was the, you know, creative work that you liked so much, that you kind of felt like it was made just for you. I know, I felt that way about the show Girls, and the show White Lotus, and many books that I've read.

Now what happens, you start recommending it to everybody, because it kind of feels like it's yours. And what means more, when someone recommends a book or when the author recommends their own book. It means a lot more if it's someone else. So, if you can write something that's so specifically for a certain group of people, they will then become your salespeople. They will go out and start doing your work for you by telling everyone else they have to read it.

So, if you're worried that the niche you're writing to is too small, the example I like to use is there is a Facebook group that is called, A Group Where We All Pretend to Be Ants in an Ant Colony. And that has, as of this recording over 1.8 million members. So, your group is not too small. And think about your own experiences.

I think a lot of us are scarred a little bit by these English teachers who taught us these very rote ways to write papers. And we learned along the way that like we needed to sound smart. Sounding smart is great, but sounding “smart” can lead you to speaking writing cliches, and right in this very professorial language that doesn't endear you to anybody, and is usually quite boring.

So, my favorite writers are the ones who have a voice. Lean into your voice and think about your own experiences. My favorite compliment I ever get from anyone who reads one of my books is, if it’s someone I know, I felt like I was hanging out with you for a week, it was like going on vacation with you. And I love that. And keep in mind that controversy. You can't be too you, you know. You know, you do you boo. You can't do it too much. Think of Mark Manson, the author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, who sold 12 million copies by telling people they shouldn’t give a fuck. So the advantage of being you in front of this audience that you're building is that you're finding out what they like. You're finding out what they respond to.

And by building I'm talking about being on social media, I'm talking about creating a newsletter list and gathering people to it. I'm talking about joining groups, you know, whether that's on Facebook or Reddit or Discord or frickin Mastodon, which I've never been on, don't even know how to spell, but apparently, it's a thing. Get out there. And you'll find that some things people respond to, some things people don't respond to at all, and some things people go crazy for. When you hit on that, you know, you're finding your audience. Double down on that.

And I look at it as a creative thing rather than going, oh my God, what do you mean, I have to toast about building authority through a book if I want to establish my authority around it. How about it's a creative exercise, I'm a creative person, I wouldn't be writing books if I wasn't. So why don't I use some of my creativity in order to build my audience.

Now an example that I give in my book that's On Good Authority, which you can sign up for a front row seat by going to www.annadbook.com. I talk about my friend Jennifer Keishin Armstrong. Now she's a New York Times bestselling author of many books that are about entertainment. She worked at Entertainment Weekly. And her first book was about the Mickey Mouse Club. So, she writes this book, and she goes, and she tries to find like Boomer websites on Facebook, and she can't summon up interest. Then she goes home to Chicago, and her dad takes her to one of his veteran organization meetings. And she finds her audience and they're like, oh my God, Darlene tell me, I don't know who any of these people are. I love it when I can say this, but Mickey Mouse Club was before my time. But so, she finally found her readers, and only realized the importance of finding her readers when the book was out.

So, Dave Chesson, previous podcast guest, all around the amazing person. When I had him on this podcast, he talked about how, go to the Amazon search box, type in your topic. The example he told me about is a woman he was helping with her book, and she was selling art. And she was writing a book about that. That was what she knew about. That's where she was building her authority. So she goes to Amazon, she types in, how to sell art online. No, no, she's sorry, she types in, how to sell art. What pops up is how to sell art online. She's like that people care about, I didn't know that. So, she not only adds a whole bunch to her book about how to sell art online, but she creates a lead magnet, about how to set up your accounts on online art sales platforms.

Now, Jay Abraham, who was both on the podcast and is quoted in the book, and is a genius, like the father of marketing, wrote an amazing book called Getting Everything You Can Out of All You've Got. What he recommends, is go to your you could call them your competitors’ books, go to the books that are on topics like yours. Look at the five-star reviews. What did they say? Then go to the one-star reviews, the two star reviews. I actually find like a three, a two- or three-star review more useful because a one-star review, like I'm sorry, those are dicks, those are people who need to get out of basements or deal with whatever resentment it is that it's making them take out their power on an author who's put their work out there.

But look what people respond to very passionately, whether they're very happy or unhappy with something. They use language, that as Jay Abraham says, penetrates right past the conscious mind. And you know how I was talking about people feeling like a book was written specifically for them? You're using their language; they are going to feel that it's really easy when you know a lot about something and you're writing a book about it. We let expert blindness literally blind us. We know how something works. So, we assume that the people, the readers know our language, speak about it the same way. We assume they understand something they don't, because it's really hard, if not impossible to remember to break it down and remember when you learned something, and when you didn't know it.

An example from publishing is in traditional publishing, people when they say blurbs, they're talking about endorsements. A blurb is a recommendation from a luminary about your book. I noticed when I got more invested in the self and indie publishing world, that when people said the word blurb, they actually were using what they were calling book descriptions blurbs. I don't know how it happened, but it started to happen. So rather than me sticking to what I know is “right,” I'm going to be better off using the language that my audience uses. And it's really hard to break things down.

I'm always reminded of one of my favorite movies, Reality Bites. If you haven't seen it, well, if you're a Gen Xer, you know what I'm talking about, if you're not a Gen Xer, it’s a frickin amazing movie. And if you ever want to understand the Gen Xer in your life, just go see that movie. But there's a scene where Winona Ryder gets in the elevator with Anne Meara and she's just interviewing for an internship, or a job and Anne Meara says define ironic. She's like, oh, you know, it's like when something's ironic, you know. And then of course Ethan Hawke who plays Troy Dyer, this sanctimonious dick, who she's in love with, he can of course, define it perfectly.

But the point is, it can be really, really hard, if not impossible to describe things that you're so familiar with, that you don't need to describe them. So that is what you can learn about from your audience. And from those one- and five-star reviews and from all the audience building that you're doing.

So that is that. That is all about the importance of readers. I hope you got a lot out of this episode. Find out, you know, like I said, more about this book that this is from, get a front row seat, find out all the tips, tricks and techniques that I am using to launch this book and you can use for your own at www.annadbook.com and I will talk to you next week.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

Sanity in the Time of Social Media

 

Social media sucks.

It's also wonderful.

And it's my opinion that you need it if you're going to build your authority around a book.

This episode breaks down why I think it's important and how you can do it without going crazy...in fact, how you can use material in your book for your posts, and build your entire online authority in just few hours a week.

This is another episode based on the book I'm writing. Speaking of, if you want exclusive stories, resources and info about this book as I write it, you can sign up for that on annadbook.com.

RELATED EPISODES:  

The Business of Being a Writer with Jane Friedman

Turning Online Readers Into Book Readers with Zara Barrie and Dayna Troisi

Writing a Book in Public with Jesse J. Anderson

TRANSCRIPT:

Hello there, welcome to the podcast. My name is Anna David, if you're new to the show. I'm so so glad you're here, and I am here to help you launch a book that will help build your authority. Now today, it's another solo episode based on the book that I'm currently writing. Get more info about that by going to www.annadbook.com. This episode is about making social media work for you without going insane. Otherwise known as making social media work for you, rather than you working for it.

Now, I will tell you, I wrote my first book before social media existed. I know, isn’t that crazy? I remember meeting, HarperCollins had already bought the book and I went, and I met with the publicity department there. I sat down in this guy's office, and he said, I know this sounds crazy, but I want you to join Facebook. And I go, that thing for college kids, you want me to join it for my book? And they said, I know, that's crazy, but I want you to do it. I'm not even kidding.

So, at this point, you know, as I'm recording this, BookTok is, you know, probably in 2022 was responsible for more book sales than any other thing, platform, publication, certainly more than the New York Times. It's not terribly relevant for people that write nonfiction. It's far more relevant if you're Colleen Hoover, a romance novelist. However, you know, I had Shelley oh my God, why am I blanking on that TikTok? Oh, Shelby Leigh, lovely girl. Had her on the podcast tell you about TikTok, and she writes nonfiction, and she writes poetry, and she has a huge following. So, it's not entirely useless. It's just not, it's not where I personally have found a lot of success finding my audience. That being said, I haven't tried very hard.

But even Jane Friedman, who, if you know who she is, I think we can agree, a pretty serious person as probably the reigning expert on publishing today. Even she says, I think you make your life increasingly difficult if you don't do any social media whatsoever. She says she knows people, so it's possible, but that you're making your life extremely difficult.

You know, if obviously, it's traumatic for you to use social media, then not triggering your trauma is more important than any authority building. But it's really hard. The point of social media, as far as I see it, is to change your attitude. And I've talked about this before, but rather than going the endless scroll and comparing to spare, and I want to be on that yacht, or whatever, we've all got our versions of it. I try to look at it as an incredible opportunity to have my own TV show, my own radio station, this, this is my own radio station.

I get to do whatever I want on this podcast; I have no asshole boss telling me that I'm doing it wrong, getting on my case about the lack of downloads or reviews, or whatever it is, I get to do whatever I want, I get to share, I get to talk to you, and that's a privilege, and pretty special. So that is true of every single thing you post or every single thing you get out you put out there.

Rather than looking at it as a burden, look at it as an opportunity. When else in society have we had the opportunity to, you know, I came up as a magazine writer, we would have to pitch and pitch and pitch to get a magazine to agree to publish our work. And then once they did, they would often change it entirely, so it was completely unrecognizable as our work.

Now we get to do whatever we want. So previous podcast guest Rob Fitzpatrick has a system that he told me about. Now, he's not like a big social media guy, but he said whenever somebody asked him a question, instead of answering through email, he'd record a five-minute video answer and post it on YouTube. So, people are constantly being reminded of his thought he's not doing any extra work. He's just answering questions that are coming his way. I have tried to do that a little bit. I forget. Instead, I just go ahead and answer the question. But if one person in your audience has that question, I guarantee other people do.

Here's the other thing we've talked about this, you guys, people say, I'm not that comfortable putting myself out there. Now, if you have a message to share, if you have gone through something, or you have experienced finding success in something, and you're not sharing that, because you're thinking about yourself too much, and you're feeling uncomfortable, and you're doing a disservice. People are not just going to find your book. Put it out there.

And can I tell you a secret? This book that I'm talking to you about right now, I have been using it as content for months and months and months. I basically have the book I'm writing, then I save a new version of it. As for social media, and I post different sections. When I post a section from it, I highlight that, so I don't go back.

What I'm doing right now I'm recording, I took this book, and I divided different sections into it. And I pasted the text onto a page, which I'm not reading from because I don't read, you know, read these episodes, but I have my notes. And I'm not worrying that you're going to not want to read my book, because I'm telling you about it now. I'm not worried that you're going to email me and go, Anna, Jesus Christ, I, you said that on the, and now I read it in the, no, first of all, I don't know about you, but I don't even remember what I read last night. Let alone some podcast I heard. It might sound familiar, but you know what, most of us have built-in forgetters, we need to hear things over and over and over again if we're going to remember them.

So, you can take your book, and here's what I'll do. I open the, right now I'm using a platform called Social Bee, and I take a little section and I put it up. I schedule it to go on my LinkedIn and I schedule it to go on my Twitter, the same thing. They require a little bit of finessing because for LinkedIn, it's really good to start it with a question. Know that people are going to see just the first two or three lines. So, some provocative question, followed by whatever the idea is, followed by some question at the end, that's meant to incite a conversation.

And I think that's also the main point about this social media thing. You are not shouting from the rooftops your brilliance you are having a conversation with people who are also interested in this topic. So obviously, Twitter has a count limit. So Social Bee allows you to kind of choose, you know, do a variation. But like the basics are done, I've got the two posts that are going on the same sites, and then I just kind of tweak them.

And I do, I schedule them just for weekdays. Something Monday, Tuesday and Friday. Then for Wednesday, I release, this is all so frickin meta, this podcast episode. So, then I schedule a post that has to do with this pod, whatever the week's podcast episode is. Now I started doing something where every Thursday, I talk about what was in that week's newsletter and I say, hey, you can subscribe here. That entire process takes maybe 15 minutes. And here I've got I get people to listen to the podcast, I get subscribers, and I'm constantly putting myself out there with very little work.

You could also take your book and make it into a Twitter thread. You could make it into a video, I've done that too. You know, I'll record something that's under a minute, some video, and I will post it, and the reason I make it under a minute is that YouTube shorts seem to do much better than anything that's over a minute. So, YouTube shorts was basically YouTube's attempt to be like, TikTok. So, yeah, if as long as it's under a minute, it's considered a short. When I post those, they seem to get a lot more views than when I just post other videos. And so, then I'll post it on TikTok, then maybe I'll share it also on Instagram. And I have created something that I'm using in multiple platforms that's basically just a section of my book. You could also take a quote from your book and make it into a quote card on Canva and then have some caption, that's an excerpt from your book. There are so many, many different things you can do.

Now, one of the best interviews, one of the most useful interviews I ever did with anybody about social media and audience building was Jesse J. Anderson, who I quote in the book, and he realized in his mid-30s, that he had ADHD, and he went to Twitter. He didn't have, maybe a couple 100 followers, and he started tweeting about ADHD. And he said, I talk about stuff that for most of my life, I was embarrassed. And he really treats it like a community. Now, I don't have his numbers in front of me, but like he went from a couple 100, right now, he has over 130,000 followers on Twitter. His tweets constantly go viral. He's not an ADHD expert, he's much, he has a much bigger following than ADHD experts. He's out there just talking to people, you know, and he said something that I think is so important. He goes, you're just trying to teach what you didn't know, six months ago. So good.

And Zara Barrie, when I had her on the podcast, she talked about how she'll people will say, well, I don't want to post on Instagram, I don't have a big following. And then she goes, you know, look, you've got 100 people, that's 100 people who decided they wanted to hear from you. And obviously, they're not hearing from you all the time because algorithm, people don't see anything. But if somebody's commenting on your posts, comment back, like them, do things. I try to do that for every single comment. I think it's pretty amazing that a stranger would care enough about what I have to say that they would write something.

So, and certainly answer the DMS that are not creepy or bots. All the DMs I get are from bots, who allegedly can help grow my Instagram following to a million. But here is the most important thing, especially when it comes to Instagram is that interaction means so much more than numbers.

There is an amazing New York Times story that ran in December of 2021, about how traditional publishers were overvaluing social media numbers and it talked about how Billie Eilish had 97 million Instagram followers, but her books sold 67,000 copies. Now, obviously, 67,000 is a lot, I'd love to sell that, but when you have 97 million Instagram followers, that's pathetic. Nothing against Billie. The point was, she wasn't telling people that she had a book and much like I was talking about, oh, this was in a previous episode about how I wrote a book about reality TV, not realizing that people who care about reality TV don't want to read books about it. Maybe Billie Eilish’s fans just want to listen to her music, don’t want to read her book. And Justin Timberlake has got 53 million Instagram followers, sold 100,000 copies in three years.

So, if you're not sharing about your book, then people are not going to care when it's out. And just sharing once isn't going to, you know, keep doing it and doing it and doing it. You know, I'll tell you, you see what people respond to when I write about when I post about how uncomfortable it is to do all of this stuff. I get a huge, huge response. So, see what people respond to you. And you know, it sounds so cheesy, but it's like, you're getting to know people, people I consider good friends.

I mean, Christina and Ashley, Christina and I have never even met, if you're listening. You know, she's so amazingly supportive, like this is a friend, so never forget that this isn't about numbers. And this isn't about you know, being a quote influencer. This is about building relationships, and if you build relationships with people and you show them how valuable you are, and how much you know about your topic, trust me, they're going to be begging you to write a book.

So, that is today's episode. You can find out more about this book that I am talking about by going to www.annadbook.com. And I love you, say hi, hey, if you're on social media, reach out to me. Send me a DM so that I don't have to have like the creepy weirdos or the bots telling me that they'll make me huge on Instagram. Just find me at www.annabdavid.com. No, that's not it @annabdavid. Love you. I'll talk to you next week.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

Get Clear (And Not in a Scientology Sort of Way) Before You Write

 

 If someone asks you why you're writing your book and your answer is "To help people," go volunteer.

It's much easier, less time consuming and less costly than writing a book!

Or you can just listen to this episode. It's another one based on the book I'm writing. Speaking of, if you want exclusive stories, resources and info about this book as I write it, you can sign up for that on annadbook.com.

RELATED EPISODES:  

The Business of Being a Writer with Jane Friedman

How to Save Yourself From a Disastrous Book Launch with Scott Duffy

What a Book Can Do For an Entrepreneur with Rich Goldstein

TRANSCRIPT:

Well, hello there, and welcome to the podcast that changes names as often as you change underwear.

Well, I hope less often than you change underwear.

It's Anna David, I talk to the world's most successful entrepreneurs and best-selling authors about how to create and launch a book that will transform your business, give you authority, work for you, without ever asking for a raise for the rest of your life.

So this is another of my solo episode solo episodes. It’s based on the book I'm currently writing. And if you want more information about that book, I highly recommend signing up because I'm giving you all the latest tips and techniques. And if you listen to this, I'm, I'm hoping you're listening because you want to publish a book that will help build your authority. If not, you just enjoy listening to podcasts on topics that you would have no interest in, which is bizarre. But if you're a part of the first group, go to www.annadbook.com. And sign up for more information there.

This episode is about getting clear about your book before you write. Now, I will tell you, I didn't have a goal. For the first six books I wrote, If you had come up to me and asked me what my goal was, I probably would have said, “Well, I don't know how to be a best-selling author.” A lot of people and actually I will say with Party Girl, my original concept was “Oh my god, if I could help one person see how fun and funny recovery is and can be, I will have done something good.” So I was like the people that I'm about to talk about, which are the first-time authors who say to me when I ask them why they want to do a book and they say, “I want to help people.” 

So what I often say, and I'm considered rude for saying, is I think helping people is amazing. I hope all my books help people. But if your main goal is to help people, there are far easier ways. You could go volunteer today. So this is partially this, like put your own oxygen mask on first philosophy. And partially just advice from a realist, because if your book is solely to help people, if you’re releasing a book, you're going to spend a lot of time or a lot of money, possibly both, or there's no point in doing it.

The statistic I've heard is that it takes a first-time author roughly 300 hours to write a book. So I always recommend when people say, “Well, how do I know if I should get help writing the book,” ask yourself what do you make an hour, multiply that by 300. That's what you'll spend. And you haven't even started looking at editing and launch and cover and all of that stuff. 

That being said, some people just have it in them. They just want to write the book. And I can see it. And that's their dream. And that's fine. But do know that if you are not a professional writer who's been writing every day, all day, for the past decade, somebody who has been doing that is going to do a better job.

My point, that was a little bit of a tangent, my point is that if your book is just to help people and you spend a lot of time and money putting it out there, it's really not a very good deal for you. I mean, it really is like putting the oxygen mask on the person next to you while allowing yourself to die in the plane going down. So why not have something to show for it, aside from some people you don't know who may never even tell you that you help them? Why not do it in a way that can help both of you? The way you do that is you say…

Who is my book for? So let’s go into a little example. Let's say your book is about how you started your business. First, there's an easy question: what is your business? You can even write this down. Unless you're driving. Okay, let's say you're a coach. 

So then the book topic could be about whatever it is you struggled with that made you want to become a coach. Okay, there we go. So then you go, who are my readers?

Well, let's assume it's people who want help with whatever you struggled with. But let's drill down more. So ask yourself: why do they want help? Is it because they believe that overcoming this issue will help them find love? Is it because they think it will help them become more successful? Is it both?

And what if you can't answer that? Then you should be going out and putting stuff out there about this topic and seeing what people are responding. But we're not going to social media to try to become influencers and show off our abs, I don't know, I don't know, I can't think of the shallow reasons people go to social media. We are going to find our tribe, and to interact with them so we can find out what they're interested in and also help establish our authority at the same time.

So that's how you're going to be able to answer.

If you're getting no action in any of the places, go to different groups, I don't know, Facebook, Whatsapp, Reddit, go and find out what people want to know that you are also passionate about. There is the Venn diagram where there is a crossover and you’ve got to find it. Because if you're just writing something that you think people are going to like, but gee, I got no passion for it. It's not going to work.

Sidebar, let's do a tiny tangent, my second book bought Bought, I wrote because I had a resentment. I had a resentment that like all good resentments was very justified. I was writing for Details Magazine, and I had this wonderful editor. And we came up with this story idea that I was going to infiltrate the seedy side of high-class prostitution in Hollywood, I was going to find out about Playboy playmates and porn stars and actresses that got paid like 10s of 1000s of dollars for a night. And I did, I can't even tell you, I was visiting pimp’s houses, I drove to this place called Canyon Country where I got a disc that a guy who went to prison in Cuba for being a pimp gave to this private detective, I found out about this woman who was funding a presidential campaign with the money, and it was so good. And it was going to be career changing.

But unfortunately, my editor left to go to another place. And I was given this other editor, and I presented him with this amazing research. And he says, “You know, I think this is really more going to be a story about how rich guys get their rocks off.” So then they run this, they cut everything interesting from the story, they run the story. And then the next month, they run that they run a letter from a reader that says, “I don't know how Anna David managed to take such an interesting topic and make it so boring.” And you know what? I had to agree with them. So anyway, it was all this editor’s fault and when I was meeting with my Party Girl editorial team And they said, “Do you have another book idea?” I said, “You know what, I do.” And I gave them this idea about high class prostitution in Hollywood thinking I could fictionalize it. Finally, all my hard work will have paid off!

But I neglected to do one thing, which was to ask myself, do I care about high class hookers?

The answer is no, I have no judgment about it. I'm just totally indifferent. So then I get this book deal. And I end up creating an entire book about a topic I am not interested in. And if somebody had come to me and said, “Hey, what is your why?” I would have said, “I don't have one.”

So drill down until you have your why and you know who your book is for, maybe it's for…to continue the coach example, what you wanted to know five years ago, or before you became a coach. Keep drilling down until you have what feels like the perfect combination of what you want to share and what people want to know.

And that's your elevator pitch. I talk about this all the time but If you don't have the template for that, you can just go to www.bookelevatorpitch.com. But basically, you need to be able to fill in the sentence. My book is for blank, who want blank so they can blank. And don't feel like you know, you're getting married to this, you're dating it. So don't worry that it's not perfect, because it can evolve. 

I talked about this in a previous episode, but this book I'm currently writing evolved once I got beta readers who showed me that I didn't that the book was not for them. So a couple examples.

My book is for health enthusiast who want to follow a keto diet so they can be in the best shape possible.

My book is for women who want to invest in real estate so they can be financially independent. 

My book is for doctors who want to avoid burnout so they can continue to practice medicine and have balance in their lives.

Those are elevator pitches for books we've done. Possibly it makes sense to stop this right now and write down your elevator pitch. Unless you’re driving.

So if we're going to continue with the example of the fictional person writing the book about how she when she got over to become a coach, let's ask, Who is the reader? Is it a married mom of two whose last child just left for college so she's looking for something new? Or is it the CEO of a multimillion-dollar company who's achieved everything but find something missing?

Again, you're going to know this from interacting with your readers. Now, if the answer is the second, always think of that avatar, the archetypal person to refer to so you stay on track because it will help you determine what to include and what not to include. For my book Make Your Mess Your Memoir, I pictured two people, there are a couple there, this amazing couple that I know from Genius Network. And I talked to them about working with them on their book, and they were always my dream client. So I write this book, and every page of the book, I'm picturing them, I'm picturing them reading it, I'm deciding would that speak to them, would that offend them, would that excite them. And I finished the book. And guess what, they don't read it. I don't see them for a while. I'm busy person. So they don't hire me. But enough people just like them do that we bring in hundreds of 1000s of dollars in new business because of that book. Because if there's one, there's many, and when you write a book that specifically for a certain person, they are going to read that book and want to recommend it to everybody. So even if it's not the person that you're picturing, there is someone else. 

So anyway, a couple of years after Make Your Mess comes out, I see this couple at a Genius Network annual event. And I say “Oh my god, I have something funny to tell you, I wrote a book for you. And I went on Good Morning America with it and everything.” And they're like, “What?” I explained this to them. And I said, “Actually, it's in the gifting suite right down the hall.” And they thought that was so great. And they went and got it. And guess what? They’re now our clients. So my point isn’t to picture people and then not tell them about your book, then wait till you see them a year later and tell them. My point is that this works. So be really clear about who your book is for.

If you’re the coach, and you want to attract clients that are successful CEOs, but you know a lot about the experiences of empty nester moms but that’s not your ideal reader slash client, don't include it in the book.

And remember, expert blindness is our worst enemy, like the sheer amount of knowledge you have about your topic is actually a detriment because you're too inside the fishbowl to fully understand what your reader wants to know.

And that is something that I struggle with all the time, because there are terms that people who know about publishing use and then there are terms that that people who don't use. For example, the word “blurbs,” if you work in traditional publishing, a blurb is an endorsement but somehow with self-publishing, blurb came to mean book description. And then what we call blurbs are called endorsements. So even though I know the quote unquote correct way to do it, if I want people to understand it, I might have to use different language. 

You also want to get really clear about what you want your reader to do once they've read your book. So I'm always saying this but you want your reader to be able to do what it is you're describing or if they don't have the time and do have the budget, you want them to hire you. But your book should not be like a 200-page ad for your services. In order for it to be successful and to mean anything to you, to has to be the culmination of your knowledge on your topic. And it has to be so detailed that a reader could finish it and do whatever it is you're describing but it also should show your knowledge so impressively, that you showcase yourself as the authority on your topic.

So get very clear about the problem you're solving and what you want your readers to do when they finish reading. Do you want them to hire your company, employ you as a consultant, take your course sign up for your coaching program, pay you to speak? Whatever it is, figure it out before or at least as you write.

Of course, just because you published your book doesn't mean people are going to immediately flock to you. The beta reader that I have talked about I saw she posted that she was being published by a company that goes out and establishes speaking careers for their authors.

Here’s the thing: nobody establishes your speaking career but you, and I've talked about this in other episodes, but there's no such thing as a sort of speaking agent you can pay to get your speaking gigs. Speaking agents take a percentage, so they want speakers who are already getting paid. 

So this book that I'm writing goes deeply into how you can launch your speaking career from your book and how you can use your material from your book. And so a reminder, if you want advance information about this book, go to www.annadbookcom.

But anyway, just because you publish your book doesn't mean everybody's going to start hiring you. But a consultant I know told me that a few months after his book release, it's actually a book that we did. He brought in half a million dollars in new contracts. What he said to me is, “I can't say for sure it's the book that did it. But I can say that every new client had read the book.” I interviewed JJ Virgin, a really successful entrepreneur and New York Times bestselling author for Entrepreneur Magazine, and she said, “If people read my books, they'll buy my products. We have a relationship, they just took you into their bedroom or bathroom, they feel like they know you.”

 My final point is this: be obsessed with your topic. I told you what happened to me with the hookers, I not only wasn't obsessed, I couldn't care less. So you shouldn't plan to dash this off before moving on to the next topic. Because your book, unlike a TV show, isn't going away. You can promote it forever, which means it can continue to help you get what you want long after it's released.

A decade after Party Girl was released, I did the audiobook and a very famous music musician who was struggling with his drinking reached out to me and asked if I could coach him. And I said, “I'm not a sober coach.” And he said, he didn't care. He wanted to hire the person who wrote Party Girl because he knew she would understand them. And he literally said, “I'll pay you $1,000 to speak to me.” I had to talk him down. I ended up coaching him. I mean, I ended sort of working with him for years. And I have potential clients who reach out to me every week because they read Make Your Mess Your Memoir. So I have no doubt the same will be true for the book I'm writing and the book you're writing.

So share your book as you write it. This is so meta but I'm doing this right now. And by letting you guys hear this, hearing your responses to it, I'm getting not only more information about what you want, but I am continuing to establish my authority. I'm discovering what you respond to, what you ignore, what are your interests and your blind spots? I am drilling down.

So that's it for this week. I hope you enjoyed this solo episode again, get more information about this book that I'm talking about by going to www.annadbook.com and I will see you next week.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

Why Rose-Colored Publishing Glasses Will Bite You in the Ass

 

You're not a delusional person.

At least not usually.

But you may be one when it comes to publishing.

And that's why I made this episode.

It's based on the book I'm currently writing and it's about the delusions I see first-time authors suffer from. Seriously, publishing seems to inspire more delusions than Hugh Grant movies!

So here's your wake-up call. Don't hit snooze! 

And if you want exclusive stories, resources and info about this book as I write it, you can sign up for that on annadbook.com.

TRANSCRIPT:  

Anna: Well, hello there and welcome to my podcast hosted by Anna David, whereI talk to authors and experts about how to launch a best-selling book that will transform your business. And well normally, these are interviews.

Today I am doing a solo episode. And it's going to be a series of solo episodes based on material in the book I'm currently writing. And the madness of that is that the book is based on different interviews I've done in the podcast. So basically, you're getting conglomerations of episodes that have created chapters that I'm now breaking down into episodes.

It's kind of awesome. The book, if you would like to get more information about the book, get advance notice, get bonuses, find out about the latest and greatest techniques when it comes to launching a book, go to www.annadbook.com. And you can sign up for that there.

But this episode is it's something that I definitely talk about a lot. But this is the if you've never heard me before because you've sort of been like putting cotton in your ears and like, I don't want to hear this. Hear me now, rose colored publishing glasses will bite you in the ass. And the reason this needs to be said and resaid and resaid is that publishing somehow seems to inspire more delusions than Hugh Grant romantic comedies.

Everybody thinks they're going to be the exception, and I get it. I thought I was going to be the exception six times; guess what? I never was the exception. You hear things like, "Oh, the average book sells 300 copies. Oh, um, you know, you're probably not gonna become a New York Times bestselling author. By the way, I know. I did become a New York Times bestselling author. And I never stopped talking about it because it was so monumental but publishing was so broken by the time that happened to one of my books that I couldn't even afford the cab fare to the party for it.

So, this notion that "I'm going to write a book, it's going to be a massive bestseller, I'm going to get in the New York Times list, I'm going to be rich" or whatever it is, is delusional. But it's kind of worse than that. Because what I see happening are people who are so convinced that they're going to be the expert that if you try to tell them the truth, like I'm doing now, they get really upset. And I learned this firsthand.

I gathered beta readers for this book. And that is something that Rob Fitzpatrick really recommended in his episode. I had never done it before. And so, I decided to try it with this book. Because essentially, I'm trying everything that I've heard people recommend on this show. I ended up gathering some people who are already on my list, maybe some of you listening, and then other people from Rob Fitzpatrick's site.

Now it was very interesting. Even though the comments were anonymous, it was very easy to tell which were the people that came from my list, and which were the people that came from his site. Because the people that came from his site were universally so delusional about how publishing works. All the people from his site are aspiring authors, who kind of think they're going to be the exception.

And all the people that were from my list, get, they didn't love everything, but they gave really constructive feedback. Now this I actually copied and pasted some of the feedback that I got from these aspiring delusional authors.

Comment one, I feel like you're really selling this book to me hard, I'm starting to lose interest. Then a few paragraphs later, this story is unrelatable. It makes you think you need to be famous; I'd cut it. I talked about someone who took a writing course in order to write her book and this person wrote, I doubt readers will have the luxury to take a 90-day writing course and much less the time to produce a manuscript in 45 days. I don't know how this story helps me. Then, this feels like an article more than a how to. Then this is the first value I found in the book, and it's buried. This feels classless and cold. Then she wrote this book is trite, but I will say later I went back and other people that highlighted the part that she called trite, and she seemed to have deleted her comment by the by.

She wrote me an email saying It was my pleasure to read your book. I've dropped some comments and will continue to do so hope they’re helpful. For the record she spelled there, T H E R E. My point is this, she 100% thought she was helping me. Another person from that site who thought he was helping me said, I wanted to let you know I started to read your book, but I opted out because it started to feel disjointed. I was having a hard time staying with the premise but I'm happy to answer any questions you might ask.

These are people who, again have never written a book but are happy to answer questions I may have for them. What that taught me...it really did hurt me, as you can tell from the fact that I'm still talking about it was months ago. But it really taught me to make it really clear who your book is for.

My book is not for delusional, wannabe writers who think they're going to sell a book to a big publisher and, you know, be mammothly successful in all of those ways. My book is for successful entrepreneurs with very expansive mentalities who understand that a book can help them build authority in a way that nothing else can.

So, I was able to sort of revise the book, not sort of but completely revise the book, and make it clear from the title—from every bit of material I put out there—that, hi, this book is not for you. So, my point is just make sure you know who your book is for. And maybe it'll actually help you to do what I did, which is get beta readers that were completely wrong for the book. But if you're a fragile soul, like me, just get beta readers that are actually the people you want to read your book.

But most importantly, be realistic about this. Don't have those rose colored glasses.

When I first got into publishing, Party Girl my agent sold to HarperCollins in 2005. And it came out in 2007. And this was really the golden era. I mean, there was a far more golden era. But it's a compared to right now, extreme golden era. And publishing—Sex in the City—was still a thing. And publishers and writers were very glamorous. And they went to lunch at this place called Michaels. And you got money when your book was optioned.

And I was a journalist. And so, I got book deals because there was no social media. So, the way a platform was decreed was if you had a name as a journalist, and I did at the time. But it was not what it appeared on the outside. And also, I feel like it really was a good time. 2005. And by the time I sold my next book came out, which was 2009, it had become a bad time.

But the thing is, I don't think this is bad news. I think this is actually great news, because the gatekeepers have left the building. For all that people rail against Amazon and what it's done to our society while we happily accept getting slippers that we don't need delivered later this afternoon...It it has done wonders for writers and entrepreneurs everywhere, because it has given us this ability to declare ourselves the chosen one and publish our books.

While you could write and publish a book by the end of this episode, which is going to be very short, you shouldn't do that you should do it at the very highest level. As I often say, Amazon forgives, but it doesn't forget. So, if you put your book out there, and it is not what you want it to be, you can put it to draft and it will just show as unavailable. But you know, if you're someone like me, you maybe put out a book with a title that's really embarrassing to you. Reach out to me on social media and I will tell you the title of that book and why it's so embarrassing. And the fact that it won't go away really, really sucks.

So don't do that. But know that you you should hire the best experts to help you but you don't need to submit your book over and over and over again to different agents or wait to hear if you're good enough and then have them submit to publishers to wait to hear if you're good enough and then have it released two years later.

You can decide you're good enough. There is nothing that a big publisher can do that you can't do for yourself by hiring people. I have my books that I've published myself in bookstores while my HarperCollins published books are not. I got on Good Morning America, with a book I published myself, I could not for my HarperCollins published books.

So, I explain this to more people than I can count. And then I often get back this Yeah, but it'll be different for me because I'm gonna sell a million copies, I don't really need to listen to this shit look back. And they compare themselves to the exception and not the rule.

And I see a few things happen. One, they feel bitterly disappointed when their book comes out. And they never write another book. Two, they convince themselves they feel good about the situation and never admit to anyone that it didn't go the way they wanted it to but it's really obvious. Three, they write more books thinking the next one will be the ticket. That's what I did, six times. And four, they wise up, see that a book is the best tool that exists for establishing them as an expert, and commit to doing a book that will enhance their authority.

So, I say, if you are lucky enough to hear this, before you have to go through that or what I went through with my six books, you can do it right the first time. You can figure out, who do I serve? Now, if you're saying, well, I'm not an authority on anything, I highly, highly doubt that. Not only do studies show that podcast listeners are incredibly well educated and intelligent, but I would bet you do something that you do very well. And if you can build a business around that and write a book that shows people both how to do it and shows other people that they can hire you to do it for them, you can have an incredibly successful career and actually be paid what you're worth.

Those who say that it's crass, as as my beta reader said, to talk about making money from a book...I get that there are people who have an issue with combining art and commerce, but I have an issue with relegating authors to being paid pennies. I think you should be paid well. But I also know that unless you're Glennon Doyle and the sun seems to shine on you, despite obvious reasons why, you're going to need a business to back it up.

So that's a my schpiel if you would like more hard to hear lessons, but actual tips and techniques that can make this happen for you, definitely go sign up to get advanced notification about all things related to my book, which by the way, is the same title as this podcast, On Good Authority, go to www.annadbook.com. So that's it for this week. I'll talk to you next. 

RELATED EPISODES:  

The Business of Being a Writer with Jane Friedman

What NY Times Bestselling Author Jennifer K. Armstrong Learned About Launches

Should I Give Up on Traditional Publishing?

How to Write a Book Everyone Recommends with Rob Fitzpatrick

 
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

Getting Book Launch Support From Your Peeps with Amber Vilhauer

 

 

Amber Vilhauer is a leading digital strategist but she's so much more.

The founder of NGNG (No Guts No Glory) has come up with a system more ingenious than any I've ever seen when it comes to helping authors corral their network to support their book launches. Longtime listeners know that I'm a pretty jaded person who's tough to impress so you know how much it means when I say that when Amber shared her system and copy and videos with me, I was as blown away as I've been by any strategy I've seen during my decades in publishing.

In this episode, she breaks that strategy down by explaining how authors should approach the people they know, what to say when they do and how to make sure that getting support for a book launch is just as much about giving as it is receiving.

RELATED EPISODES:     

Why a Book Is the World's Best Business Card with Chris Voss

How to Get PR without Spending a Fortune with Christina Nicholson

How to Set Up an Author Podcast Tour with Alex Sanfilippo

      TRANSCRIPT:

Anna David: Even though, Amber, what you may not know is that I've written two emails about you to my newsletter list. That's how impressed I am by you.

Amber: Girl, come on.

Anna David: Because it's, I told you when we spoke, I am just blown away by your level of organization and your brilliance with even the small things. So, your assistant sent me I said, oh, send me a bio and pictures and she sends me the most exquisite link to the most exquisite page. I have known many people, including myself who have tried to have bio pages, media pages, it just was perfect. So I redid mine.

Amber: Yay.

Anna David: Then I put it in my newsletter as an example, please go look at Amber's page. I was at a holiday party last night and someone comes up to me and said, I loved that woman, she said that woman, your last name’s hard to pronounce, that woman’s page in your newsletter. So it's making waves.

Amber: Oh my gosh, you're so amazing. Gosh, I just want to keep you by my side all day every day.

Anna David: No, I just know I never blow smoke my my listeners know that.

Amber: I know that about you. So that's why it means so much. But listen, Anna, I really there's something here and I want to build upon that. And next year and the year after.

Anna David: That means so much. So let me tell listeners who who why I'm so blown away. So we're introduced by previous podcast guest, Kay Allison. And I know just like me, you're introduced to people all the time. And you're like, yeah, hi. Okay. Why didn't you ask me before you did the intro. But I had heard about you. And I'm like, I really want to meet her. You showed me your system for book marketing, and I've been doing this for 20 years, and I've never seen anything like it. So would you describe what it is you show your clients how to do?

Amber: Yes, well, I do all sorts of things. So for 15 years, I've had my company NGNG, which stands for No Guts, No Glory. And we started out as a website and branding company, I was a total geek, I taught myself code, I started blogging about the stuff I was I was just learning about online from SEO to copywriting and affiliate marketing and funnels and webinars and membership programs. And as soon as I could prove that I could really crush something, I would open it up as a service to one of my clients. Well, 15 years later, I find myself in a really unique position. Because I've seen a lot, I've been a part of a lot, I know a lot, I've executed a lot, I've perfected a lot, and I know that in order to make the strongest and most positive impact on the world that I can, I need to also document what I know so that I can have a brilliant team that helps me in the execution of it. And along the way, Anna, the world wanted me for book launches. And I actually resisted it. I resisted it for years, I did not promote that I do book launches, it was just something I did from time to time. And I didn't want to do it because I think launches are stressful and chaotic, and I wanted a calmer life than that. But as the world continued, it was actually Mike Michalowicz who came to me a few years ago. And he's like, listen, you have to do my book launch. And I said, ah, it's Mike. Fine. I'll do your book launch. And then Mike told everybody and that was that it was undeniable. I had to fall in love with it, which I did. So thank you Mike Michalowicz, you are always gonna be my friend. But what I can bring into a book launch is different than pretty much anybody I've ever seen. Because a lot of people who manage about book launches, coaches, execution teams, publishing companies, etc, is they're all about the launch itself, that day, let's drum up some support. Ask everybody that you know, to pitch it on your behalf. And let's poof get it out there. Oh, and then you're on your own good luck. And so an author is sitting here and man, they don't know anything about marketing. Usually, they don't like it. They just want to write their book. That's where they fell in love with this process, not being the next Instagram star. And the thoughts of that makes them want to cringe usually. They also don't look at themselves, usually as a business owner, and they just want to speak, they just want to help people, right? And so I've really observed this, and I'm such a lover of people, Anna, so I really

Anna David: I can tell.

Amber: I get to know my authors. They come in, I don't judge where they came from. And I just say, Listen, believe it or not you’re a business owner. I'm going to help you fall in love with marketing. I'm going to help you get the lined monetization model because I need you to make money off of this book. The book alone isn't going to do it. I'm sorry to crush that idea of selling millions of copies.

Anna David: Preach!

Amber: Yeah, but there's a business here and then I start to educate them as to why that's a good thing and how they I reframe their mindset in every possible way to see that this is an opportunity to actually make the transformation they want to make in the world. But in order to do that, we have to look at this as a business, which means that I have to come in and teach you what you need to know about how your website can actually attract and qualified buyers, you can make an emotional connection with them right out of the gates, you can guide them step by step on what you want them to do through video, you don't even have to be there. That website is your salesperson for you. So you don't have to feel like you have to be a high pressure salesperson. Then I'm going to help you with your marketing. And with your marketing, you can't be the one to do it, which is actually when they feel that sign of relief. But you shouldn't be doing your marketing. But I also don't want you to hire an agency that's going to charge you one to $5,000 a month to do something that you could be doing internally. So instead, I'm going to teach you how to fish, I'm going to help you find a very capable, amazing, talented, creative marketing assistant, I call this person a CMA. I want to find that person that you align with that you really feel safe with. And that gets you and I want to train that person on everything I know about internet marketing, so that that person can optimize your videos on YouTube and write your blog posts and help do all your social media for you and manage your email list and all of that for $30 an hour, less than 10 hours a week. Okay, this is a game changer for authors, because now it looks like they're everywhere, their marketing is consistent, and they don't have to do it. So I help them overcome a lot of those fears. When we actually move into book launch season, then that's when I teach them something I'm really proud of that does make me stand out here in this way as well. And also what I think you were asking me about originally before this very long answer, but I teach them a signature relationship management operation. Now the world of book launch right now, especially because so many people are launching books, it tends to be pretty transactional. Hey, Anna, I'm launching a book in two months, I really need a favor. Can you please send an email to your list? Can you put it on social media? Can you buy bulk copies? Because I'm trying to do this and I need the help. So can you help me? That's putting a strain on relationships. And Anna's over here thinking like, I have 15 friends asking me to pitch them, I have my own message I'm trying to get out. I don't have time for this right now. And this isn't aligned for me. But then you feel obligated and things get weird, right?

Anna David: Right.

Amber: I see this about humanity. And I think, okay, we can't make it about Amber, the author or even Anna, what we have to do is reposition this whole concept into it being about the cause. So Anna, I'm really a big believer of human connection. And I'm just seeing how much in the world right now, trust is broken everywhere. And the only way that we're going to move forward and be better together is if we can just find a way to be open and trust each other again, and connect. And I wrote this book because I believe in it. And if I don't get this book out, Anna, I just don't even know what's going to happen next. So I'm really trying to do this for the cause. And you know, it you strike me as a person who really believes in connection too, and if you stand by this cause is there a win-win that we can create, where I can help your business and you can help mine and we can fix this world together? That's a very different approach than, can you send an email to your email list for me and pitch my book? So that's kind of the relationship management operation at a high level. And the last thing I'll say is when we launch the book, that's just day one of your book’s journey, we would have already in advance created a plan to actually get that message out there at scale, continue book sales, get you monetizing to cover the cost of the platform development and all of that. So you actually have a sustainable brand moving forward.

Anna David: I love it. I love it. And so the way that you walk people through it, there's there's tier one and tier two. One is a group that, you know, one is a group you want to be connected with. And tier two is who you already know is that is that really how it goes?

Amber: Yes, yeah. So you're gonna have people that you naturally know in your network. And you're not going to think of those people when you first get started. You're going to think, I don't know anybody. But when you actually start to thought jog, you know, all sorts of people that you've met, either through prospecting calls, client calls, you showed up at the same event, you were in a mastermind together, look at your Facebook contacts, your LinkedIn, who did you talk to in the last calendar year in your, you know, Google Calendar, who's in your phone, when you start to really look around? You know a lot more people than you think you do. And that's kind of the first step. And only once you have kind of re-sparked that relationship, you revived it, you sort of have mutually shared your intentions trying to suss out, if you can have a collaboration together moving forward and be more intentional about that relationship, then you can kind of start looking at who would I like to know, you know, I want to know, Brené Brown, or I want to know, whomever it is, that's great. Add those people to your list and allow this snowball to start to form and build momentum and then leverage that. And then there are really direct and creative ways to get the Brené Browns on your side. But don't start there. You got to start within your own network, I can help you overcome the nerves that you have around it, because I'm telling you, it will be a firework show, and you will thank me every single day if you just trust me on this piece.

Anna David: So to connect, I mean, so it's first asking the people you know who they know. But I also love that you sort of have this strategy. I know about people using gift boxes for their launch. But your strategy involves doing that even earlier, kind of, let's say you're getting to know someone you you want to know, sending them something. What do you send them?

Amber: Absolutely. So imagine like a little Amazon box, except the box is designed based on your book cover or your website branding. There's such an opportunity to add color. I even have this client Zander Fryer. And he has this book, I hope it's okay to say out loud, it's the Shit You Don't Learn In College. And he's a superstar influencer for the college crowd. And when you get his box, there's the book cover kind of on the front. And when you open it up on the inside of the box is a manifesto that he wrote that is honestly one of the most inspired pieces of content I've ever read. And you wouldn't think that every single side of that box can be designed. Why does that matter? Because it stands out. It's different. It evokes emotion, it makes me want to connect, it makes me stand behind his cause. Then on the inside of the box, there's a copy of his book that signed there's a postcard that might talk about why he wrote the book and what his vision is for this book and how he's creates this call to action, like a battle cry that you join his cause and we shift humanity together, right. And then maybe there's something else included in that. I mean, Zander did a journal. I've had other clients like this Cole Berschback, she had a pencil that we found and engraved her tagline on the side of the pencil. And when you stick it in soil and water it, it turns into a cilantro plant. And her tagline was, here we grow. And it was a pickup like a parenting coaching kind of company. So there's all sorts of fun things that you can do to create an impression. And if you send that gift box out to the people that you know, or want to know, it's something different than just a book in a mail with a printout letter that's a generic template that everybody else got. And it's not even signed, right. That's what most people do. It doesn't take much to move the needle and make an impression. I even had a client, Kevin Simpson, who ordered 700 700 of these gift boxes. He sent them out to his clients, his friends and media contacts. And then boom

Anna David: Wow.

Amber: I bet you can guess what happened next.

Anna David: Wow. And you even have your process goes so deep. There's even when you send a box to somebody, here's showed them a video so that they can have like instructions on how to unbox it and show it on social media. You've thought of everything.

Amber: Yes. So after we send out the box, I'll give this document to my clients. And it'll say here's a lot of different things that we can do with the box. So so there's like a video I've had influencers do a live stream to their audience.

Anna David: Yeah.

Amber: Oh my gosh, I just got this box from Kary Oberbrunner. And here's what's in it and this 20-minute pitch fest for Kary and his book, just because Paul Dunn got the box. And so Paul was the one that went live or take photos, write it for Amazon reviews, and people just get spun up in the experience of it all, Anna, so it feels less like a chore. I have to do this, another thing on my to do list and all of a sudden it becomes something that feels invigorating and fun. It's better together. You're a part of something special, like everybody wants to be a part of that.

Anna David: I love it. And so if anyone listening, is like, wait a minute, I can't afford to send 700 boxes, there are a lot of strategies that require no money. So one of the brilliant things that you instruct people to do is just to basically send out that list like as Amber said, people send out, hey can you share, but this is something strategically sent out and says how can you help me and it's literally a checkbox, right?

Amber: Yes. When somebody says, well, sure, I mean, I can help. I don't know how I can help right now, then the next step is we send them to a web page that says, listen, there's no pressure here. Here are all of the ways in which you could support the book launch, just check the ones that you're most interested in. And there's probably like a dozen to 15 different options. Do you know? Do you want to host me on your podcast? Do you want to submit an endorsement? Do you want to just introduce me to somebody that you might know that might benefit from this message? Should we co-host a webinar? Or would you like me to speak on your stage, whether in person or virtually? Do you want to hire me to come in and support your mastermind or whatever? Do you want to post on social? Send an email to your following? Do you want to have an Instagram Live? As you know, fill in the blank, what else do you want to do? And I've had people do all sorts of amazing things. And so that is absolutely a way that you can elicit support without having to send a gift box. I would say that maybe, I don't know, 50% of our clients end up sending out the gift box. And to your point, if somebody's thinking, oh, gosh, I'm on a limited budget here. That's exactly why I approach the book launch the way that I do. Because if it were only about the book launch, yeah, that would be a real concern. Instead, I'm looking at your whole business. So then I think to myself, okay, if we're on a budget, how do we make you money fast? Makes me think of a client named David. He had a sort of fractional CFO business, I had four months to launch the book. He hires me in September, the launch is in December, by the end of September, within a month of working together, I got David set up to run an event. And it was supposed to be virtual, he ended up later really wanting to do it in person, but should have been virtual charge $5,000, a person he got, you know, 10 or 15 people in the room, bam, I helped him with the agenda, I set up the logistics, it cost him nothing to get that started. Now he had some seed money so that he could have the kind of launch that he really wanted to have. So just know that regardless of how much time you have to launch or what your circumstances, there is always a way forward, that doesn't have to put you in a position of stress and chaos. Because anybody who's putting you in a position of stress and chaos, shame on them, everybody's job should be to protect you and your energy so that you can shine as the bright light that you are. So your energy has to be protected in this process every step of the way.

Anna David: And one of the nice things in terms of protecting energy is if you go, I don't want to have to keep asking people and asking people. The amazing thing about Amber’s system is you ask once, and then you have a support team that is doing all the follow up. So if it makes you uncomfortable to ask, it's just working through that once basically.

Amber: Yeah, that's right. So what I would try to do in the sense of like the creative marketing assistant I spoke to earlier, we can use that person or another person on the team, or I can help you find another person more of like a project manager. But let's say for the purposes of this operation, it's going to be almost a communications manager, right? So if I'm, again, the author, we're role playing here, and I ask Anna to be a part of my book launch. And she says, Well, sure. I guess I could help what what's the next step. I could then say, I'm so thankful, I'm going to introduce you to Megan, who's my communications manager, she's going to walk you through all of the different options. I don't want to get in the way and make you feel pressured. So you do what's in the highest and best for you, Anna, because I want to protect our friendship. And please know anything that I can be doing for you to support just knock on my door anytime. I'll let you two take it from here. Megan then introduces herself, Anna, oh my gosh, well, I'm here to make it a win-win. So please let me know what your vision is in your business, how I can support you. Here's that form that you can fill out to check the boxes on what is exciting to you. I'm here, if you want to hop on a call, if that's easier, or just take you know, take your time here, on the back end of Anna filling out that form, Meghan can then go straight to great, I see that you would like to have Amber on your podcast, I can facilitate that booking right now based on what's convenient in your schedule. I see that you also asked to submit an Amazon review. Here's a document that teaches you step by step how to submit that review on Amazon, as well as some helpful hints to get it accepted because Amazon is actually pretty, you know, tricky these days. And we want to make sure that it gets published. And then I see you also wanted to post on social media. So here's some example graphics. Here's some example copy. And you know, Anna, we're just so thankful for you. We'll promote you to our network during the launch as a supporter and drive some business back to you. If there's anything else I can do for you in this process, please let me know. Then there's also documentation where Meghan knows to send reminder emails just before the book launch in case Anna gets busy, forgets, then there's still that custom, personalized, warm, friendly communication, right around the launch window. So that at the end of the day, it's a win-win, everybody wins. Nobody was stressed out, it didn't put a strain on the relationship, there wasn't unnecessary pressure. And ultimately, me as the quote, author, well, I got to just focus on the outreach, nurturing relationships, and then it's my responsibility to keep those relationships nurtured in the future. So it doesn't look like I'm just somebody who only reaches out when I need something, because nobody wants more friends like that.

Anna David: Okay, we have to get close to wrapping up. I'm so proud of myself for watching the time though. One final thing that I wanted to ask if someone's listening, and they're like, what, what do you mean? What kind of business could I have from this? You talked about your client who had the event? What are some other possibilities if they want to make their investment back on the book 10 to 100 times?

Amber: Oh, my gosh, it could really be anything Anna. And you know, all of my conversations are extremely custom. I don't share ideas twice, usually. So it could be I was just talking to a client yesterday, she's going to start doing a girl's night out like a once a month sort of membership, almost. I've talked to other clients about hosting retreats, like a meditation, sort of wellness sharing, you know, open conversation retreat, it could be a mastermind, one of my clients built him an $8 million first year business before the book even launched, we had started that monetization model. And it was literally just a mastermind where people got together virtually once a month. It could be that you want to do some sort of consulting or group coaching. A lot of times people come to me and they say, I really want to do a course. And I think why do you want to do a course? And they don't have a good answer except to say, well, because that's what I should do, it's what everybody else is doing. That's what I was told to do, right? Wrong. If you don't want to manage a community and be in that course constantly making updates and onboard another team of people. Then you're a course you have no business running a course right? So you just need to understand what your options are, know who you are, and the type of lifestyle that you want to have. Then hire somebody who knows the options and can help filter them out so that you stay in alignment with how you want to spend your time, but there's always a way forward.

Anna David: I love it. So Amber, if people want to find out more about you find out more about your services. What should they do?

Amber: Just google me, I'm everywhere. You can't miss me. NGNG Enterprises is the name of the company. So just remember No Guts, No Glory. You can also go to amberv.com because nobody knows how to say, spell or remember Vilhauer. So amberv.com could get you there. I'm all over social. My YouTube channel is packed with amazing value. And I don't say that with ego. I just put it all out there for people so that I can help more authors. And just anytime I'm such an easy person to reach out to, I'm here for you. I believe in authors. I want you to succeed. So just let me know how I can help.

Anna David: I love it Amber. Thank you so much. And you guys, thank you for listening.

Amber: Thank you. 

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM   

 

What a Book Coach Does—and How to Become One—with Jennie Nash

 

Jennie Nash is the book coach whisperer.

Or at least that's what I've named her after talking to her. The founder and CEO of Author Accelerator, a company that trains, certifies and supports book coaches so they can help writers do their best work, Nash has helped clients land top agents, six-figure book deals and make both the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller lists.

Also the author of 11 books in three different genres, Nash has certified over 130 coaches. If you've ever thought, "Hey, I might like to be a book coach," get this: the cost for certification is only $2400. If you're instead interested in hiring a coach, listen in on this episode to find out more. You can also find out more about both becoming a coach and hiring one here.

RELATED EPISODES:       

What's the Difference Between a Ghostwriter, Editor & Coach?

Neal Pollack on Working with Big Publishers, Indie, Amazon—and Everyone in Between

Jeff Goins on How Real Artists Don't Need to Starve

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM   

 

How to Launch a Book by Giving First with Kay Allison

 

Kay Allison is a former Senior Vice President at a global ad agency who increased her income by six, met and married a man she’s still crazy about 21 years later, helped Fortune 200 companies generate two billion in new revenue, adopted a child and invented four successful businesses since going alcohol free over two decades ago.

In short, she's learned how to live a JUICY AF life. And now she's written a book it.

While we talk a bit in this episode about being AF and her program for women who want to go AF, mostly we focused on how she went from behind-the-scenes power woman to forward-facing voice of freedom from alcohol.

And Allison did it all by giving first. This means that when she locates a podcast she wants to be on, she listens to episodes in the car while sending herself voice notes about how she thinks she could provide something as a guest. She also sends bookers handwritten notes, makes personal videos and, in short, thinks of how she can be of service. As you can imagine, her success rate for getting booked is quite high.

In this episode, she breaks down the giving-first mentality, including a not-to-be-missed method for getting people to actually open your book and not just let it sit on the shelf.

Enjoy this delightful strategy...and delightful woman.

RELATED EPISODES:     

How to Get a Journalist's Attention with HARO Creator Peter Shankman

Cameron Herold on Generating Free PR and Creating a Vivid Vision for Your Book

Talking About Your Book on TV and Podcasts with Media Coach Susan Harrow

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM