Anna David's Blog, page 8

Getting Local Love for Your Book with Carlyn Montes De Oca

 

Carlyn Montes De Oca is a passionate animal advocate, international speaker and multi-award winning author of Dog as My Doctor, Cat as my Nurse who has also been featured on ABC and CBS and in Woman's Day magazine.

But it was what she did for her most recent book, Junkyard Girl: A Memoir of Ancestry, Family Secrets, and Second Chances, that we focused on. Rather than trying to tackle the whole wide world, she focused on her local area: Santa Fe, New Mexico. As a result, she got in with the local bookstores, pitched the local TV shows and set up local events. Now she's become a bit of a local celebrity.

Steal her techniques and dominate your hometown! From there, take on the world.

HERE'S HOW I CAN HELP YOU WHEN YOU'RE READY:

→ You can sign up to hear my secrets every week at www.AuthoritySecrets.Club

→ You can grab my Book Launch Blueprint for $20 (it gives you over 29 PDFs that we use for the launches of clients who pay tens of thousands of dollars) 

→ You can apply for a call to work with Legacy Launch Pad (we have packages that range from $3k-150k)

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: All right. Well, Carlyn, so glad you're here. So glad I pronounced your name right. Um, what ,car lean? Um, so okay, so let's talk about how you have been able to sort of focus on regional promotion, getting you know, your hometown behind you. Tell me your approach.

Carlyn: Well, first of all, thank you for getting my name right. Second of all, I actually come from, well, I start, I'm from California. So I started off in my adult life in Los Angeles, then I moved up to the Bay Area, San Francisco. And, you know, I launched my first book, and then, from those areas. And then we moved to Santa Fe, which is a much smaller community. And this is where I launched my new book. And I sort of thought, well, Santa Fe is small. It's the capital city of New Mexico, but it's small. How am I going to really connect with readers? I've only been here, you know, four years, how am I going to connect? How am I going to do this? And I was shocked and surprised, pleasantly surprised, to see how this community really embraces their authors and their creatives. And they did the same to me. So, I, so I have just been going ball busters since my launch in November, thinking what I would do would be to exhaust my community. And, and I'm still going, I'm still moving. You know, they always say a book launch is a marathon and not a sprint, but I'm sprinting still.

Anna: I love it. It's a marathon and not a sprint unless you're gonna sprint the whole marathon [laughs].

Carlyn: And I'm not a runner [laughs]. So I don't even know why I use that, started talking about those terms, but…

Anna: So how do you do it? So I love this. Because most people listening are probably not in big cities. They do have a community, they do have a region, how do you start?

Carlyn: Well, this is what I did. One thing is you can never start early enough preparing, at least for me, I'm not a pantser. I'm a planner. And I just start, I started listing all the possibilities of things that I could do in this area. And so I have been really successful with, for starters, local media. I mean, they are really happy to talk to a local author. They're really happy to talk to a local author having a local event. And they're particularly happy to have a local author with a local event that is promoting a local charity. And as an animal advocate, I am all about animals and how to try to create a better world for them. So I always donate a certain percentage of my books towards animal rescues or organizations. And I did the same with this book. So I had articles written in all of the big papers. Articles, not just like about your book, in the Santa Fe New Mexican, in the Santa Fe Reporter. Last, two weeks ago, I went, Albuquerque is only an hour from us. And I was on TV there on Fox News with my dog, you know. Promoting, promoting all of this. So local media has been amazing. The local bookstores are, surprisingly in Santa Fe, are a harder nut to crack. But because the book is very professional looking, it's got a wonderful cover on it, that I was able to crack that nut and they have that in my, in my local bookstores. But let me tell you a really cool story about also how community, how your friends, I mean you never know who your friends know, or who new friends know. Like, for example, when we first were going to move here, I read an article that was interviewing this guy who was a journalist who lived in Santa Fe. And he was into dogs, and he was part of the Santa Fe animal shelter. And I thought, oh, he's interesting. So I wrote him an email. And I said, I loved your article, blah, blah, blah. And little did I know, he thought I was a stalker at the time [laughs]. But he was really nice. And when I moved here, we connected. And soon enough, we became good friends. Well, this guy happened to be, like the head of, at one point, he was a former journalist and the head of Reuters in Asia. And so we became friends. He wrote an amazing little endorsement for my book that's in the book. He has connected me to so many people. And then recently he connected me to a woman who used to, who was a six-time Emmy award-winning anchor in St. Louis, and had her own show, you know. What was it called? Face to Face with Karen Foss, where she interviewed all sorts of national and international lawmakers. So she's doing in conversations with me at the bookstores. And everybody loves them because the level of her ability to interview someone is so high. And yet this was all because I reached out to some guy I didn't know in this area. But this is how just friendships can blossom and people can connect you to other people. So again, I mentioned charities I donate to Animal Protection New Mexico, is a charity that I'm donating with this book, and they support me. You know, they're getting it out to their, to their followers. And some other things I do is I tried to connect with influencers in the area, like, are they literary influencers? Are they other authors? Or, you know, the other day I walked into a, right before my lunch, I walked into a place where they sell stamps and stuff of that nature. I get into a conversation with the woman there. My book is about adoption. She was adopted. She's into animals. I used to work in the film business, she worked in the film business. She says, can we host your event because I have an online bookstore? And I'm like, uh sure. So she hosted my book launch. And it was 35 degrees outside and we were all in the courtyard. I had 35 to 40 people there, sitting there. And this is because people know me, they knew her. And then what do you know, she opens a bookstore in this community. And where Junkyard Girl, my book, is right front center on the table and they sell. I've never had that many books sell out of a bookstore.

Anna: Wow.

Carlyn: So these are kind of these little things that, at least I do, to just continued to connect with people in my community. I'm a vegan, I go to the vegan restaurants. One of them sells my books there.

Anna: Oh my God, you said so many good things. Okay, we're gonna stop. I love it. So many good things. So one of the first things that you, well, you said, okay, so local media, you know, and so you went to Albuquerque, and were on TV. So what should someone listening, they go, okay, so I know my local TV station. Do I, do I write them an email? Like, how do I know? What, what did you do?

Carlyn: I researched. So what I always do is I, and I have a big spreadsheet of research I've done of like, what are the top TV stations, the radio stations, the press. And of course, I read some of their articles, I listen to what's on there. And then I look and see who are the newscasters, let's say, for television, because that was a little harder than the others. So I went and saw who were the newscasters? Because truthfully, I don't watch, I don't, I watch Netflix and Amazon, and I read the news, but I don't watch it. But so I looked and I went, who likes animals? Because that's who, what connection do I have with these people? And then I found people that I know in one of my communities who had been interviewed by them. And I said, and they gave me the personal email. So I reached out to these people, and I, I have studied publicity, publicity. I did study with a company for two years so I feel like I write pretty good pitch letters. And so I pitched it. And quickly, they responded and said, yes.

Anna: Wow.

Carlyn: And they did it right before my next book event, which was at Barnes and Noble. And so they, so they got me on there. Now Santa Fe works really differently, let's say, than LA. Because in the end, I actually called them on the phone to just…

Anna: What?

Carlyn: And you can never do that. But I find you can do it in Santa Fe and Albuquerque. And everybody's okay with that, but not in LA. So you, you kind of, usually an email is the best way to do it. And try not to have any attachments on it, because they often don't open it if they do. But try to find something… And also, I will say I've been told this, is do not give up until they actually say no.

Anna: Interesting.

Carlyn: Nobody's ever actually said no to me. They just, and sometimes they answer after two or three times. But you just keep and offer a little more value like oh, and this is coming up, you know, and this is to benefit this organization, or this is a thing I'm having. So, you know, they need news.

Anna: Yeah.

Carlyn: They need news that's not terrible things going on in the world.

Anna: Yeah.

Carlyn: So, so that’s how I approach media.

Anna: I love it. So found somebody, found out who the sort of posts and newscasters were, found somebody you knew who had been on, which I think is the key thing, got the personal email, probably put the subject line: John Jacobs told me to email, you know, something that makes them open it. And then how many times have you emailed to follow ups?

Carlyn: Well, it depends. It really does depend. I, I would say with the television thing, I did pitch them early on without a couple of those things in place. And I didn't hear from them. This last time I pitched them, I heard from them immediately. Like immediately. And this is what I've been told is, in fact, my friend who's again, this news anchor from St. Louis said, you never ,you keep pitching because you never know who's going to answer that pitch, that letter, who's going to read it.

Anna: Yeah.

Carlyn: They have such a turnaround at these places that one day one person will be like, oh, I'm not interested. And the next day will be like, oh, this is fascinating. In fact, in Santa Fe, the biggest newspaper here is the Santa Fe New Mexican. And I sent a letter to the editor of that, of that. I didn't hear from him. So I decided to call to make sure I was getting the email. He answered the phone.

Anna: Oh my God.

Carlyn: And I said, Do you have two minutes? And I told him what, and he's like, yeah, this is good. This is good. But then the reporter that he gave it to said, he said to her, would you like to do this? And because she had a personal connection to the story, she said yes. In fact, yesterday, I pitched a podcaster locally, and they had a personal connection because they also had a situation where they discovered something through DNA.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Carlyn: That was a surprise. So you never know when somebody's gonna go, wow, I have that connection, or I like animals, or I like knitting or whatever it is to you.

Anna: Yeah, that's interesting because I think that we all are, you know, are scared of being annoying. We're scared of being quote that person. And we are intrinsically very self-involved. So we think like, oh, they're so annoyed by me. No, they're not even thinking about you. And, and I think it's, you know, and because you have these two parts of your story, the, the DNA adoption, and then the animals, where if someone has that in common, that's not like, oh, we both like pink. That is like a heart-to-heart bond. It is something, and it's like, a lot of people who listen to this, and a lot of my books are about recovery. If someone's got that in common, they're gonna feel instantly connected to you. And, and want to help.

Carlyn: Absolutely. I think you're, you're absolutely right. And this is the thing somebody told me once. They said, if you do not promote yourself, nobody else will. And I always remember that. And to be totally honest, I don't think I'm necessarily being annoying. Like, I feel like I start conversations with people and we enjoy each other. And then the connection results from that. Like, honestly, another thing that I do, which sounds silly, but it seems to work, is every day I hike with my dog, I have a rescue dog. I hike with her every day. I kid you not, I meet somebody new almost every day on the trail. And because I have a dog and they usually do too, we strike up a conversation about dogs. I'm an animal advocate, I write about animals. I often then, we'll, they'll say, what do you do? And I tell them, so even like, either I'm going to get them to come to an event. Or I'm going to get them to sign up for my newsletter because it's all about the animal human bond. So they like, and even yesterday, I was, I ran into somebody and I, and I was just thinking that they're from LA. And they're like, wow, and then suddenly I run into people. And I tell them what book it was that I did. And because it's such a good community here, a tight community, they're like, you’re Junkyard Girl?

Anna: Right. I love that.

Carlyn: Yeah.

Anna: Oh, and by the way, it's clever. I'm sure you weren’t being annoying. I think I live in fear of annoying people. I live in fear of following up too much. I'm going through it right now. Because as you know, I'm kind of getting ready to, to launch my book. And there are two people I know who used to drive me crazy, following up when I was kind of a higher-powered person in media. And you know what? Those two people are incredibly famous today. And they had no problem asking me over and over and over and over again. And I have to remember, you know, that, that you, like you said, nobody, nobody's going to do your promotion for you. And I think what I love about your approach is like, you really look, you get that this is part of the job. You got spreadsheets, you, you know are going out there and doing things. So let's talk about getting the book in bookstores and then, and then pitching local media. With, and I've got an event, did you walk into your Barnes and Noble? How did you do that?

Carlyn: Yeah [laughs]. Barnes and Noble? Yeah, I was so surprised by what a great reception Barnes and Noble gave me. Well, I walked into… Albuquerque has a few bookstores. So Barnes and Noble was the first one I walked into, and they took like, 14 of my books. And then they took all my other books too.

Anna: Aww.

Carlyn: And last I did an event there and they kept 30 of them. So I was thinking, lovely, thank you. And so yeah, I walked in and, and that's, this is the thing Anna, it's not like, I like, was born being able to promote myself like you. Believe me, it took a long time for me to just go, I'm not annoying people. But that's the difference between… I think my first book did very well, but I still had all that, those self-limitations. The thoughts that oh, you're not good enough. You're gonna annoy this person. Gosh, what a, you know, nitwit you are, whatever. With this one, some of those layers have fallen away. But they don't, they do a little [inaudible], there's some little voices in there. But yeah, I walked into Barnes and Noble and I just went in there. And remembering like, I'm a published author. I do self-talk.

Anna: Yeah.

Carlyn: So if I hear any negative talk in my head, it's like, no, I'm a published author, I have a great product, a great book. Why wouldn't they be happy to have this book here? And um, and I think maybe that energy sometimes really works in your favor. So yeah, they took the books. Then I went to this other bookstore. And I barely got two sentences out, I was waiting for a pitch. And they're like, we'll take them. Yeah, we'll, we'll order them. So they ordered them. And then there's a third bookstore, who funny enough, has a very strong connection. The woman used to be associated with the animal organization I am in. They’re doing a book event for me in September. So I've got, so that was those bookstores. And then here in Santa Fe, all I needed to get it into, was this one that is the hardest and the most popular, and everybody knows it. And it's kind of like a prestige thing. But she took it and she was very complimentary and took a lot of copies. And I walked in there the other day, there's only one left. So that was good. So it's really a matter of, and this local bookstore, we made this connection, and they're constantly calling, saying, bring us more books, bring us more books, because we're running out.

Anna: Wow.

Carlyn: So I think it's a matter, and the thing is, I can't approach every single bookstore in the country. So, and bookstores, you know, there's an issue with the, you know, with bookstores, they'll return books, and then you have to, you know, pay a certain amount. And that's part of the process. But it's just like doing a little bit here and there, and, and so this is enough for me for these bookstores. Oh, I have them also in the areas I grew up in, like Santa Barbara. And, you know, I'm planning on doing something in Los Angeles, because I have a community there and in the Bay Area. But that's a little bit, just in another month or so.

Anna: Interesting. Do you, and in terms of getting people to show up, I think this, I mean, you're just, all you're doing is making me want to move to New Mexico. I'm just like, aww, everybody hikes around other dogs. Do you walk around with your book, so like you're on a hike with your dog? Do you have your books on you?

Carlyn: I will tell you, well, it's only because it's a little heavy to put in my backpack. But I pretty much walk everywhere in Santa Fe with this book. But what I do have is my business cards. And right now because I'm having an event in April, at the library actually, in Santa Fe that I'm carrying these everywhere. And to be honest, I probably do have a, a little bit of a fear, [whispers] okay maybe a bigger fear, a bigger fear of failure. So I am determined that people are going to come and so I have made this massive list of everywhere that I could reach out to in Santa Fe. All, you know, all the calendars, you know, in the communities that will write up your thing. I, I go to the dog park, which I do every day. I'm handing out the flyers. I'm on that dog walk talking to people going, I, I’ll pass somebody who's walking the dog, and I'll go, hey, I'm this person, and I just want to invite you to this thing. It'll be really fun [laughs]. And so I do that. So yeah, I'm constantly kind of doing that. But people don't seem to mind.

Anna: In LA, like you might get arrested. They'd be like, what [laughs]? Um, but yeah, I mean, I love, I love this. I love this community idea, this, like, you know, you're becoming a local celebrity. If you're in the paper and you're on TV, and people are saying, Oh, you're Junkyard Girl.

Carlyn: Yeah [laughs].

Anna: I love it. What um, what else? What other tips do we have, for people? Oh, here was also my question. So you said that the bookstore will say, bring, bring us over some. Do you do it on consignment? Or are they ordering through Ingram? Or how are you doing it?

Carlyn: However they want to do it. I literally will put like 60 books in my car. Whenever I go to some, some place like that. However they want to. Some of them have bought them from Ingram. Some of them say, can you, we’ll buy, you know, can you bring them in and we'll sell them on consignment? Whatever makes their life easier. I try not to be a pain in the ass at that point. It's like whatever you want, I will do. And so, so that's what I do. Another thing that I have done, which is, I think has worked very well, is local book clubs.

Anna: Oh, tell me more.

Carlyn: Albuquerque and Santa Fe are my closest regions. I mean, I'm available to do book clubs anywhere online on Zoom. But I have looked up, I've Googled all the book clubs in Santa Fe, all the book of clubs in Albuquerque and sent them an email saying this is who I am. This is what I’ve got. This is, I would love to come in and do an in person, you know, book club event at your thing. And this woman wrote me back I remember from Santa Fe, going oh my God! Who doesn't want an author to come and talk to at the book club? Yes. And so I have those scheduled, and also, I have, just because I'm doing regional right here, it doesn't mean I have an expect-, I'm not constantly on the lookout for other opportunities or look to my greater communities of the areas I've lived in, in the past. So I've done book clubs in the Bay Area. And I'm still, you know, kind of reaching out and moving. But it's sort of like concentric circles. I started off with my book and me, starting with family and friends. They moved to the next concentric circle, which to me was my email list. And then social media. And now I'm in this next circle, which is like the fourth circle, which is region, my area, community.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Carlyn: So, yeah.

Anna: Um, I also feel like, you know, and then your last circle, and I'm sure you do this, but like, I'm sure there are big news stories about DNA test surprises and stuff like that. Like, like, the minute you, about like Donald Trump, it turns out, like, that's not really his kid. Like, that's when we get you on The Today Show. Talking about that kind of thing. Right?

Carlyn: Yes. Absolutely. And to be honest, every morning, I do, I don't read the newspaper thoroughly. I look at every headline from every major outlet, to see if there is anything and so, you know, but part of the issue, I'm a solopreneur. I'm on my own. I don't have a team. So I do have to have my antenna out constantly going, okay, this, this, this, but again, I mean, I, I was in Women's Day magazine in, you know, in January, with my dog. And because I saw an opportunity there and I reached out and they put me on page two, so…

Anna: What was the opportunity? How did you find it?

Carlyn: It was, I have subscribed and now I don't remember their names that…

Anna: Harrow? Was it Harrow?

Carlyn: No, no, not Harrow. But there were some other, yeah, but something like Harrow where you're looking for podcast opportunities and this and that. So I've signed up to all the ones for free that I could find. And this one came through and I looked at it and I went, oh, I'll pitch them this idea. And I did and they ran with it.

Anna: I love it. I love it. Well, so this is fantastic. If people want to find out more about your book, you, find you, where should they go?

Carlyn: Well, I hope people, especially animal lovers out there, I have this phenomenal newsletter that is really heartfelt. And it is for anybody who is interested in the animal human you know, connection, and you can find everything about me at animal human health dot com, animal human health dot com (www.animalhumanhealth.com). And here's all my social media is all on there too.

Anna: This has been so awesome. Thank you so much for all these tips. And thanks you guys for listening. 

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Using Your Book to Build Your Business with Ian Altman

 

Ian Altman is one of the world's top expert on sales, with his Same Side Academy rated as one of the top 5 Sales Development programs globally.

But instead of focusing on sales, we talked about how he has used the book he co-authored, Same Side Selling, to attract clients to his business.

We also touched on having a podcast and everything else with the same name as the book, producing an accompanying book workbook, updating a book five years after its release and so much more.

Only listen to this if you want to make money from your book!

HERE'S HOW I CAN HELP YOU WHEN YOU'RE READY:

→ You can sign up to hear my secrets every week at www.AuthoritySecrets.Club

→ You can grab my Book Launch Blueprint for $20 (it gives you over 29 PDFs that we use for the launches of clients who pay tens of thousands of dollars) 

→ You can apply for a call to work with Legacy Launch Pad (we have packages that range from $3k-150k)

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: So Ian, Ian, let's talk. You just said words that were literal music to my ears, which is the book sales were basically a rounding error compared to the millions you've made sort of, off the book, or as a result of your book, please elaborate.

Ian: Well, I think that many times when we write a book, some people have this idea that I'm going to make a ton of money on the book itself. And in Same Side Selling, we wanted to change the way people sell and the way they approach sales and marketing. And in doing that, you realize that look, some people are going to read the book and implement everything, get what they need. Other people need additional tools that help them get there. So we have a journal that helps people implement the concepts, I deliver Same Side Selling Immersion workshops around the country and around the world for that. My keynote addresses are typically called “Same Side Selling.” And then we have a whole membership site called the Same Side Selling Academy, which is a digital platform that has live monthly coaching in addition to a whole wealth of information all centered around same side selling, so it kind of became a broader brand. And the book is, if you think of it this way, it's a almost free entry point for people to say, yes, I agree with that philosophy. It can change my business. Now I want more. And it also serves the people who say, I read it. I get everything I need out of it. Fantastic.

Anna: Mm hmm. So in what order did it come? Was the book part of the initial plan or did the book come after the business and all the other things?

Ian: So the book came first. So I was, I was helping people with sales. I had grown my prior businesses to a pretty good size. I mean, we built a business from zero to a couple billion dollars in value. Like I'm sure there are many businesses that are larger, but by most standards, it's not a bad run. And, and so when I stopped doing that, because I was totally burned out, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And people said, you always seem to enjoy helping other people grow their businesses more than you enjoy growing your own business, which I think to this day is still true. And so I set out to kind of help people do that. And as I was teaching different approaches, I met my co-author Jack Quarles, who Jack is a guy who’s spent two decades in purchasing and procurement. We found that we had a lot of ideas in common and wrote this book about how do you avoid that adversarial trap between buyer and seller. Had to get on the same side kind of putting a puzzle together. And as part of that, any training or or education or talks I was giving before morphed into Same Side Selling. Because what I was doing before didn't quite have a name, didn't have as consistent of a methodology, contextual models, all that. Now there's a whole framework and language around it. So to teach something else would be confusing for people. And so you know, we've been dealing with, quote, Same Side Selling for the last decade or so.

Anna: Okay, and so, so was it while you were working on the book that you thought, oh, this could be a program and a podcast? Or was it after?

Ian: No, I wasn't that smart [laughs]. It was more like, hey, we need to get this book out. And this will be great. And then it was, and then I thought, wow, this would be a really good idea. And obviously I've built, since I built businesses before, I was thinking about okay, how can, how can I help people more in this area and that area? And I think one of the key distinctions is, I wasn't so much thinking about what are the different revenue sources. And what are the different, what are the different levels. It was more, okay, so there's some people who are gonna need, who are gonna get everything they need from the book. And in the book, we talked about this idea of the same side quadrants. And I said, look, all you need is a blank sheet of paper. Draw a vertical line down the center, a horizontal line across, you create four quadrants. And people said, well, do you have like a journal that does that? I'm like, well, it's like a blank sheet of paper, vertical and a horizontal line. After a couple of years of people asking me every single week, it’s like, you know, maybe we should create these journals. Now the journals are really popular because it also gives people their questions, watermark, and kind of guides people through how to have discovery conversations with potential clients.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: As part of that, at the same time, it was we were teaching people and people would say, okay, so now, now how do you support if I have remote people? How do you reinforce these concepts? Oh, you know, we'll create a digital platform. Now admittedly, I ran a software company before. So with the Same Side Selling Academy is likely way over-engineered compared to what anyone else of rational thought would do. But you know, but we, also a lot of our clients are large enterprise customers, and they'll have, you know, 100 reps in the Academy…

Anna: Wow.

Ian: Getting coaching, getting reinforcement, things like that. And it gives a dashboard of who's done what and who hasn't. Are they attending the coaching sessions? Aren't they? Are they there for 20 minutes? They there for the whole time? What kind of questions they’re asking. Everything gets transcribed, edited down. But the idea is that in each case, what I'm thinking is, okay, which part of the audience am I not serving? And how do I serve that segment of the audience? I think that the trap some people fall into is, how can I get people to pay me money for something instead of how do I serve the audience? And then the money will follow.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. So how lengthy is this online program? It practically sounds like college. Is it, is it hundreds of hours of videos?

Ian: It's a lot of stuff. It's a lot of stuff. So, and it's all organized. So you can, you can do a full text search and find the needle in the haystack. So if someone said, oh, I'm talking to a prospect, and they ghosted me, you just type, you know, client ghosted me. And you'll get every conversation that we've had in life coaching sessions, etc. that mentioned that phrase. And if we have an hour-long coaching session in our community, that might get edited down some months to 10 segments, some months to 18 segments. Each one is an individual clip that gets full text index that gets categorized, and that way people can find exactly what they're looking for. Because if you have hundreds of videos, and you just organize them by date, good luck if you're a user. You're never going to use it.

Anna: Yep.

Ian: So instead, one of the things that we learned, and this is not something we implemented day one, but we figured it out over time. Because like with anything else, you implement things, you make mistakes, and then it gets better. That's why we have a second edition of Same Side Selling. The first edition was fine. And then we're like, ooh, people also need these other things that we don't have. We worked with our editor to come up with, okay, how should we change this? And we actually thought about, should we just create a whole new book? And I was like, no because it's still fundamentally Same Side Selling, we're just going to create a second edition. And what we did, interestingly, is for the Kindle version, we actually just updated the electronic version. So anyone that had the Kindle version automatically got the second edition. So we weren't trying to monetize it. We were just trying to give people updated information. Now of course, that drew, drove a ton of sales.

Anna: Right.

Ian: But because people were like, wow, this is so cool. They like, they could have, when you release it, you don't have to do it that way. And we did. And in fact, we had to kind of go back and forth with Amazon to say we're updating this like, well, it's, but it's a new book. We're like, but we just, we don't want to charge people again. And at the time, I don't know if they'll let us do it today, but at the time, they said, okay, and that's what we take advantage of.

Anna: It's really, I, I can't believe you talked Amazon into that. Because you know, plenty of people do second editions, third editions of their books. And yeah, you got to pay for that.

Ian: Yeah.

Anna: So how long between the two? How long did you wait to update it?

Ian: It was about five years. About five years between the two.

Anna: Okay.

Ian: And…

Anna: Yeah, keep going.

Ian: Go ahead.

Anna: No, you!

Ian: Okay, so, so it was about five years between and part of it was that, right after we released the first edition of Same Side Selling, I was explaining to people, here are the types of questions you want to ask. And people said, well, we have trouble remembering this. And I was sitting with a client, and I said, look, it's real simple. There are kind of four things. Think of it like, almost like a quadrant on a sheet of paper. So let's just organize it this way to take notes. And then as I wrote it, I'm like, that's really helpful. That should have been in the book. And it was like, okay, we'll just talk about it and explain it to people. And then after a while, it became something that I was really well known for, is the same side quadrant. And I'm like, it's kind of funny, because people would then see me speak at an event, talk about the same side quadrant and say, but where is it in the book? I didn't find it like, well, it's, it’s not in the book.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: And so we realized, there were some, there were some elements there we needed. There were things that Jack and I, in, the orig-, in the first edition, we thought, this story absolutely makes this chapter. And then with the benefit of hindsight, you're like, that story adds nothing to that chapter whatsoever. And our editor was so polite in not telling us that. But you know what, we need to, we need to create a better story there. And we need to add more stories and more examples and case studies and things like that. And that's what we did. But it was more… It wasn't, okay, how do we create another version? It was, we feel like something's missing to this story for people. So how do we, how do we better serve the audience with an updated version? And then honestly, our biggest challenge is that Amazon still has one or two copies of the original version that we can't get them to take down. And periodically, somebody buys that and says, well, I got the wrong version. Like, somehow we did something, which of course, we just send them the new version, because I just, I don't want the, the user to have a bad experience. But you know, that's neither here nor there.

Anna: I know. I mean, yeah, I have a book that was published in 2007 that we've updated in Amazon. So people were like, I got your book and they show me and it's the wrong cover and I’m like, eh, stop! How different were, are the two versions? Like it, can you say by page, how many pages are different? Or…

Ian: I would, I would say it's about 60 plus percent the same.

Anna: Mm hmm, mm hmm.

Ian: So it wasn't quite, it wasn't quite a 50 50. I'd say that 60 percent we probably didn't touch. But we reviewed everything, meaning it wasn't like, oh, let's just add these things, leave everything else the same. We went every paragraph, every sentence, and kind of, does it need this, doesn't it? Does this tie in well to this other concept or doesn't it? Is this story still relevant now? Okay, get rid of it? How do we better illustrate that? So it wasn't like we went into it saying, oh, we only want to edit this much. Or what needs to edit, we need to add at least as much. It was more we knew we were including some concepts that were really valuable. And it was a question of what was the right amount to get that done.

Anna: Mm hmm, mm hmm. And so when did the podcast come along, in that hole?

Ian: So the, the podcast, the Same Side Selling Podcast, let's say, sort of about 350 episodes and I do one a week. So it's about, call it six years or so.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: About six, six, almost, I guess, almost seven years now. And so, probably a couple years into it. And my business used to be branded as a business called Grow My Revenue. And it used to be the Grow My Revenue Podcast. And then it became the Same Side Selling Podcast. And what a, what a good friend of mine, who is a marketing savant, said is, well, that's interesting. So how many brands do you want to establish? And how many brands do you want to manage? Or do you want to manage just one? Because when you go on stage, just about everybody says, oh, it's Ian Altman, he wrote Same Side Selling.

Anna: Right.

Ian: So you could name it something different. But like, why? And, and at one point, he said this, this one friend of mine says, so, Same Side Selling is the book. But then you're Ian Altman, and then you have the, you have Grow My Rev-, what is Grow My Revenue? Like, what's the name for the companies? Like, why are you making your fans work that hard?

Anna: Yeah.

Ian: I’m like, that's a really good point. So, you know, sometimes you need good friends who will hit you over the head and help you realize that maybe you should do things differently.

Anna: I mean, you're talking to somebody who had a podcast about addiction recovery when she was running a publishing company. And, and anybody listening to this knows, I think I'm on name seven for the podcast. And guess what? I'm in the process of releasing a book by the same name. It took me that long to realize the genius of just naming it all the same thing.

Ian: Yeah.

Anna: We get over creative sometimes.

Ian: Well, and it's, in the ideas, well, this is subtle. And it's a subtle difference. So I need to name it something different. And the only people who care about that is us [laughs]. We're the only ones who care about that subtle difference. Instead, it's like, people will say to me, oh, well, can you come speak at our event about same side selling. They don't even know what that means. They just know like, well, that, that concept works for us. And now, when I, when I speak, there's businesses I work with on how they can better recruit. And we call that Same Side Recruiting. Now, I don't think, I don't think I'll write a book on same side recruiting. But it's all tied back to the same brand.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: And so, if you're fortunate, you come up with ideas that people get that concept, and they don't, they don't confuse it with something else. And like, you know, every once in a while, someone will say, so same side sales. That's the, that's the furthest it gets from same side selling.

Anna: Right.

Ian: Like, I can live with that.

Anna: Right. It's pretty close. Alliteration, always good.

Ian: Yeah.

Anna: So does your book lead people into the training program? Or is the training program, that's a pretty in depth? So most people don't need that level?

Ian: Yes. You know, it just, it depends. So there are some people who, they just need to get a change in direction and change in approach. And the book isn't everything they need. Other people that read the book, they see about, they see information about the same side quadrants, and they think, okay, well, there's got to be a tool that helps me do that. And then they, then they look at the quadrant journal and that helps them. Then people say, you know, I want to learn this stuff. But I don't necessarily want to go to something on site. I don't necessarily want to make the investment to bring, bring Ian into work with my team. But hey, I can send a bunch of people through this program for the next year. And they'll get better at this.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: So it's almost like, I mean, it wasn't done intentionally I like to say it was. But it's almost like, hey, you can buy the book and it's almost a zero investment. And as part of that, you can listen to podcasts and everything else. All those things cost you almost nothing. The journal costs a little bit more than the book. Okay, it's still a pretty low investment. Then it's oh, now you can get into the Academy. That's gonna cost you the equivalent of about 85 bucks a month, for the year. Okay, I can do that. Then it's, okay, well, now we want to do one of these Same Side Selling Immersion programs with our team. And, but we want to, we don't care if it's just our company, we’ll go with other companies. Those people might invest, you know, low, in the low 1000s of dollars. And then when I'm doing a program just for a company, or if I'm doing a keynote or something like that, then they're paying 10s of 1000s of dollars. And then there are people who say, can you help me grow my business more strategically? Sure, those are, those people are investing more 10s of 1000s of dollars on top of that. And it's just a function of, I look at it, there's people who will say, well, we want to, we want to go, you know, the top level right away. My answer is usually, you know what, why don't you just give people a taste of this and see if it resonates with them? And if it does, then we have something to talk about. And if it doesn't, then you don't want to invest in it any further.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: Which is probably the opposite of what people would think someone who's teaching about sales and business growth would say. But I think most people, what they forget is that, if you get a client who's not a good fit, they suck you into the vortex of evil.

Anna: Yes.

Ian: And then they're the bane of your existence and you wish you had never met them.

Anna: Yes.

Ian: And so, I would rather people take an incremental approach. Now, I have the benefit of not being in a scarcity mindset because I ran a business that was successful enough that I can truly just look out for making sure my clients are always well served. But having done that, this business has grown to a pretty good level over not that long of a period of time.

Anna: Mm hmm. Yeah. So, um, is there like a lead magnet in the book? Should people do that?

Ian: People should. I should. we don't. So it's, we, we take the approach of benign neglect. And, and poor marketing and then hope that it all works out. And it thankfully has. In the, you know, we actually, we actually do more paperback and hardcover sales than we do electronic sales. Because if you think about it, I speak at a lot of events. So people will order 300 bucks, 500 bucks, 1000 bucks, 2000 bucks for that event. So there's a lot of books that go out and in hardcover. I think the next time we do a print run, we’ll probably include something about, you know, here's where you can learn more about the Academy and this and that. Not so overtly. But just more, it's kind of stupid, because right now it’s, hey to learn more, you can go to Same Side Selling dot com (www.samesideselling.com). But they don't really know what it would be. And have something on the inside of the back cover that says, hey, here are additional resources for you, would probably be a smart thing to do. We just weren't that smart.

Anna: Third edition, third edition. So somebody who's listening who says, wow, I'm writing a how to book, they probably don't have the sort of infrastructure that you have with all the… You know, with the huge business and then the courses and stuff, what would you recommend that they do?

Ian: I would, I would recommend that the first thing to do is think about, so if people read this book, what are they going to need next?

Anna: Yep.

Ian: What's going to serve them? So if you think about it, like, for example, when I talk about these different types of programs. So I speak to all sorts of different audiences. Sometimes I'm speaking at an industry event where there might be 1000s of people there, all from different companies. Sometimes I'm speaking at an event for a company, and it could be a big company. Or sometimes I speak at these CEO leadership groups, where it's businesses that might range from 1 million to 100 million in size, which is a pretty broad range. And there's 20 companies there.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: And what you have to think about is, what, what serves well, each of those audiences? And how do you package in a way that’s simple for them? So like, when I used to do these workshops, I would say, oh, and it's so much per person. And what I realized is, though it's a convenient way to think about it, it didn't really serve the audience well. And for me, if I'm trying to personalize things for the audience, I needed to limit the number of companies there not the number of people. And all of a sudden, if I had, if I had 30 people from three companies, it was easy. But if I had 20 different companies, there's no way I could personalize it for people. And so then I said, okay, now we do these, we limit it for, we limit it to 10 companies max. Here's what it costs per company. That gives you two seats and then each additional one is an incremental cost on top of that.

Anna: Mm hmm.

Ian: And that way, if six companies show up, it still financially works for me. And, and I stick to it. If, if 11 companies want to come, one of them's on the waiting list. People will be like, oh, well it’s my buddy’s company, just one additional company. I'm like, I can't do that. Because I know this is the limit that I can serve that audience. And I think that for my advice to people is always think about how you are well, serving your audience. Because the people that sign up for my programs now, almost 100% of them are people who came from someone else who said, wow, they sent their team. And they said that they have doubled their business in the last year. And their sales cycles went from nine months to three months, and their margins went up. When are you doing one in my area? Like, that's where you want to be. But if you don't serve your audience, you're gonna work a whole lot harder.

Anna: Mm hmm. So somebody who, let's say they have a how to book but, and they want to coach and they want to use the book as a way to bring people into that program. Do you think, you know, sort of a, a quiz or something? And then a course, and then how would you recommend they go about that?

Ian: You know what? It’s gonna be different for each business but usually we have to tap into is, what problem are you solving for that audience? And the first thing you have to do is get people to say, yes, I have that problem.

Anna: Yep.

Ian: Right. So I mean, you know, you wrote a book on addiction recovery. I believe that's the first step is people acknowledging do they have a problem. So it's the same sort of thing in business, which is, if people don't believe they have a problem, they don't really care about your solution, your coaching. So many times in business, what people do is they talk about, well, here's this coaching I provide, and I do this, and I do this, and I do that. Scrap that. Instead say, well, when people are looking for my help, they're usually trying to solve one of these two or three major problems. They either have this issue, this issue or that issue. And then you can start creating content all about those issues and problems. And what happens is someone reads it and they think, wow, they totally get me. Or they watch a video and they say, yeah, that's me. I mean, if you look at my podcast, more than half the episodes, I mean, we have case studies and success stories and different authors on and people talking about different things that can help. But fundamentally, most of the topics come down to, what's the biggest mistake people make when it comes to this, or this or that. Because the people who want to hear that topic are the people who are facing that issue.

Anna: Right. Right.

Ian: And if your message resonates, they're gonna get it. So it's, it, it comes down to, do you have this problem. And then let me do a quick, quick assessment and see if I can help you. You know, which category you fit into. Oh, you have this? Great. Best advice I have for you is read the book, here's this online resource I have, you'll be all set. I mean, it's kind of funny. I can talk to three different companies, and sincerely say to them, hey, in your case, this is what's best for you. And have three different approaches for each of those companies, because I have different offerings that hit at different levels for them.

Anna: Yep, yeah. So, so one way is literally to just put something in your book that says, want to book a free talk, you know, with me, and, um, and to really just look at it as a point of service. Like, talk to somebody for free or whatever, for 15 minutes, see if you can help them and go from there.

Ian: Yeah, and you can even say to people, look, if you want to get a sense as to whether or not I might be able to help you. Then there's a quick 10 question assessment that's on my site. It'll give you a report back, and then I'll reach out to you and let you know if it's something I think I can even help with. So that's a, that's a concept that we teach called disarming, which is, look, if you say, hey, you can schedule a call with me, so that maybe I can sell you my stuff. No one's signing up for that.

Anna: Yeah.

Ian: If you admit that most of the people you talk to don't need my help but some people do. And so here's this assessment that will give you some insight. It'll give you a sense of how you compare to other companies in your space, other businesses like you, other people like you. And if, if there are additional resources, I think would be helpful I'll share those with you. Well, now someone goes, well, I'll fill that out. Because it's going to give me a sense of how I compare to others, or what resources might be helpful. If we say to them, hey, you can schedule a time so I can try and sell you stuff. No one's signing up.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. And bonuses. You know, there is a way you could put bonuses in the book and people sign up for your newsletter list, and you're explaining, but I love this. And you can just do software, quiz software that's pretty easy to get.

Ian: Yes, Survey Monkey. You can do it with Google Forms, you can like, there are different ways to do it. The key is, getting back to where we started, is consistent branding. So it would be the Same Side Selling Assessment. It would be like, it's funny, one of, one of my, one of my philosophies is that scripts are horrible. Like people always say, I need scripts for my sales team, and I'll say, okay, so have you ever been on the receiving end of a phone call of somebody reading a script? Yeah, okay, but it’s a phone call. How do you know? Well, cause it sounds robotic. Okay, so do you really want scripts? So we have something, we have a, a lead magnet on our website that says, you know, the, the, you know, here, here are seven scripts to grow your business [laughs]. And then like, as soon as you download it, it's like, yeah, there aren't really scripts. These are, these are alternatives to scripts. And like, we kind of make fun about it.

Anna: Amazing.

Ian: But it's, but it's just kind of funny, because it's, it's a common thing that people would ask for. And I'm like, Okay, I don't want to just bash scripts, you know, for no reason. But it's more like we made it kind of a playful thing.

Anna: Yeah, I love that. And a side note, you know, I end up doing sales for my company, even though I don't want to. People, you, kind of as the founder sometimes, because people say, I want to talk to you about this. Look, you know, and I talked to some sales trainer, and he gave me scripts, and I've never done quote, worse on sales than when I was following those.

Ian: Of course.

Anna: Because I just was so inorganic for me. Usually you know what my sales calls are? I'm not sure we're right for you. I really don't know that we're right for you. And they just want to give you money.

Ian: Yeah. And that's what and that's what it should be. Because the reality is, until you know enough about their situation, you can't possibly know if they're a fit for you. And it's one of the things that we spend a lot of time working with our user base about is, for our clients and our members, it's a matter of, look, you can show up in one of two ways you can either show up as someone who's there to sell something, or someone who is there to solve something. And if you show up as someone who's there to solve something, then towards the end of the process, you get to ask a simple question, which is, would you like our help?

Anna: Yeah.

Ian: And so it's something that's all integrity based?

Anna: Yeah.

Ian: And it's just a function of, are you having this discovery process where you're determining do I have a good fit? And if not, refer them to somebody else.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I think if you approach it as like being of service, rather than just trying to make a sale, then you're not resentful. You're happy. It feels good to help people.

Ian: Exactly. And you also don't feel a sense of rejection if someone's not a fit. They’re just not a fit. It's not like you were rejected. It's, yeah, these people don't have a need for what I do right now. And I get inquiries from people who were like, well, we're, you know, we saw you speak at this event, it was amazing. So we'd like you to, you know, can you speak at our event? And their budget is equivalent to what most of my clients pay for my travel expenses for an engagement.

Anna: Right.

Ian: And I'm like, you know what, I'm really flattered. Here's some ways if you can get a sponsor this and that. Here are ways other people do it. If not, let me see if I can get you somebody who's in that price category who can help you.

Anna: Right.

Ian: And people will say to me, well, do you get a piece of that? No, but I'm just, I'm serving people who are trying to do the right thing for their audience. And you know, people get so nuts about, well, I can't possibly spend 30 seconds of my time doing something that's not productive. Yet these are the same people who will spend four hours a day just randomly responding to stuff on social media [laughs]. So you just focus your time differently.

Anna: Yeah, and I think that goes for anyone who writes a nonfiction book. You want to help people. And so, you know, as you so eloquently talked about, probably the way you're going to be the most successful is just by trying to serve. Forget trying to sell.

Ian: Yeah.

Anna: So this has been so great. Ian, thank you so much. If people want to find you, find out more about you, where should they go?

Ian: Anna, this is gonna come as a shocker but if they go to same side selling dot com (www.samesideselling.com)...

Anna: Oh, in my mind.

Ian: They will find me and of course, you can also find me at Ian Altman dot com (www.ianaltman.com) and on social media and most places at Ian Altman (@ianaltman). But so it's just I A N A L T M A N but Same Side Selling will get you there.

Anna: Fantastic. Ian, thank you so much. This has been illuminating.

Ian: Anna, I thanks so much for everything you do for your audience.

Anna: Well, and thanks audience for listening. Love it.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

The Secret to Launching Your Authority Building Book

This week, I usher a new baby into the world...

My book, On Good Authority: 7 Steps to Prepare, Promote and Profit From a How-to Book That Makes You the Go-to Expert, is now out and this week's episode is an excerpt from the audiobook.

It's the book's introduction, which is all about how we're in the Golden Age of authority building from a book and how you can take advantage of that.

Only listen if you want to build authority with your book. 

HERE'S HOW I CAN HELP YOU WHEN YOU'RE READY:

→ You can sign up to hear my secrets every week at www.AuthoritySecrets.Club

→ You can grab my Book Launch Blueprint for $20 (it gives you over 29 PDFs that we use for the launches of clients who pay tens of thousands of dollars) 

→ You can apply for a call to work with Legacy Launch Pad (we have packages that range from $3k-150k)

TRANSCRIPT:

When I published a humorous novel about addiction and recovery in 2007, I had no idea it was going to make people think of me as an authority.

I was five years sober and had wanted to write a book that could show people how fun and funny recovery could be—to make struggling addicts see that recovery wasn’t the end of life but the beginning.

I put a threesome in the opening scene because, hey, I wanted to attract readers.

The authority building happened accidentally, when a Today show producer heard about the book and asked me to come on the show to talk about a celebrity who had gone to rehab. When I was leaving, he asked me to come back a few days later for another story. Then CNN called. Then Fox News. Pretty soon, I was on TV regularly, with the label “addiction expert” below my name.

At first, this made me panic. “I need to go back to school, get a master’s, do something to deserve to be called an authority!” I wailed to my TV agent. “My only addiction expertise was in chopping up lines of cocaine and ingesting them into my nose!”

I’ll never forget his response.

“You don’t need a degree,” he said. “You have a book.”

And I realized he was right. No one cared where—or that—I’d gone to college. But everyone cared that I had a book. Even if it opened with a threesome.

Every year since then, the path to gaining authority through a book has become even better paved. And yet most people who release books these days find that their businesses don’t improve, and their lives don’t change at all.

If you’ve published a book and experienced that, good news: it never has to happen again.

The reason most authors fail is that what we read about publishing is woefully irrelevant since we only hear about the successful authors. And we think, despite knowing that our chances of fame and riches are small, that we’ll be the exception—the Glennon Doyle, the James Clear. And it makes sense in a way. Who would do something as audacious as write a book and plan to NOT be successful at it?

(Losers, that’s who. And we’re not losers!)

But there’s a reason we’re not successful in the conventional sense—that is, by selling millions of copies and becoming famous. We’ve been playing by rules set up to make us fail.

What I’m showing you how to do will save you from that. It will teach you the secret to making your book wildly successful in a way that impacts your entire career—all without you having to be chosen by a major publisher, an inexplicably popular teenager on TikTok, Reese Witherspoon or fate (though if you are chosen by Reese Witherspoon, will you please let her know that Legally Blonde is still one of my favorite movies of all time?).

Still, let’s get clear about what I mean by “wildly successful." I know authors whose books were wildly successful in the traditional sense—released by major publishers, on The New York Times list, featured on Oprah, made into movies—and those authors are now struggling to make a living since those “wildly successful” books weren’t designed to support their careers over the long haul.

Book success, to me, is about not needing any of the bright, shiny, external, one-in-a-million things to happen and instead having something that attracts clients to you for the rest of your life.

Why has no one told you this before now?

It’s not because people have been trying to keep the secret from you; it’s because most of them don’t know it. It took me six books and 12 years before I understood the situation. And once I did, I realized it’s actually not that complicated if you break it down.

Hence, my 7-step system.

The key element for you to remember with this system is that it’s not about your book. Yes, the book is crucial—without a book, none of this works—but it’s the combination of the book and the authority building my system walks you through that’s so effective.

This is perhaps best summarized by author and entrepreneur Nicolas Cole, who’s a bit of a legend in the online writing space (more about him in chapter two). “It wasn’t until I actually put my first book out that I realized the way I had built myself ended up being more valuable than the book itself,” he says. “That’s what’s opened up so many doors for me.”

The process Cole and I follow is simple but not easy: it’s about first having the right book topic and then consistently working to build your authority before, during and after its launch.

That’s right; it means regularly taking action, whether that’s attending events along with your ideal clients, scheduling posts on social media, gathering subscribers, writing newsletters, supporting leaders in your field, contacting people who can bulk-order your book, reaching out to podcasters, appearing on podcasts, connecting with journalists, finding people who can hire you to speak, handing out copies of your book to strangers on planes or any of the other methods I’ll get into in this book.

If that sounds like a lot of work, remember that sometimes —maybe even a lot of times—this is fun. I happen to love going to events, speaking and writing newsletters. I know other people who love going on podcasts and posting on social media. Also, you can get a team or even a virtual assistant to help you with a lot of this.

Studies show that it takes 30 days to build a new habit and with every event, every post, every email and every call, you’re building that muscle. And, as any cross-fit enthusiast can surely attest, building muscle only makes you want to go to the gym more often.

But also know that I’m here to support you at every step. In fact, I created a calendar for you to download so you—or someone on your team—can track what you do. You can grab it (and other book bonuses) at www.ongoodgifts.com. If you start slacking, that’s okay. Just jump back into it as soon as you can. Eventually, it will become part of what you do.

Still, this isn’t about willy-nilly promo. This is about identifying the book topic that will build your authority and then training an audience to always think of you as that topic’s authority.

If you’re not interested in that, or if you still think you want to try to sell your book to a traditional publisher so you can get rich from your book sales, this book isn’t for you.

Otherwise, we’re in great shape. The information in here will show you how to conceive and publish a book that gives you the authority you need to grow a career around your passion for the rest of your life.

***

I’ve been in the publishing world since the mid-90s, and I believe we’re now living in the Golden Age since the gate-keepers have left the building. It’s like showing up at Studio 54 in 1979, seeing Bianca Jagger ride in on a horse being led by Andy Warhol and walking right past the velvet rope.

We don’t need agents or publishers or people to tell us we’re good enough. We can declare ourselves good enough—even excellent—and either write and publish ourselves or hire professionals to help us. And if we do it right, and do the work to support it, our books can make us into authorities.

While this book focuses a bit on the sort of businesses a book can help, and how to sell your services from your book, the emphasis is primarily on how to create a book that will make you an authority in your field—and then how to keep building your authority from there.

The great news about the process I’m going to describe is that it means becoming a part of the public discussion about your topic and therefore always getting clearer about what your reader wants. You’re seeing what they respond to and what they ignore. You’re discovering their interests and blind spots.

The problem with so-called authority today is that many of the people out there sharing their experience and wisdom are those with neither experience nor wisdom. How could they have either when their lives are devoted to creating TikTok, YouTube and Instagram videos?

Those who have been in the trenches developing actual experience and wisdom, on the other hand, are often too busy, well, gaining their authority to spend time showing the world all that they know.

A book is the e-ticket to the front of the authority line. It’s also one of the last credibility enhancers we have left. Where else in this world do we have an opportunity to spend hundreds of pages walking people through all that we’ve experienced and all that we know?

Even before the time of the seven-second attention span, how-to books were the sort of currency that bestowed immediate legitimacy on the author. Robert Kiyosaki went from struggling entrepreneur to expert in real estate investment when he released Rich Dad Poor Dad in 1997.

Tim Ferriss went from behind-the-scenes entrepreneur to someone who would probably pass the “Does my mom know who he is” level of fame after releasing The 4 Hour Workweek in 2007. Despite the fact that he appears to work at least 400 hours a week, the book made him into an expert on spending four hours doing anything (including cooking and working out).

I often encourage even those CEOs and founders who have no desire for the spotlight to put their business stories down on paper. Ferriss-like fame doesn’t need to be the goal. The fact is, there’s no better way to gain perspective on your life than to write it down (or have someone else write it down). This is especially true for the go-go-go business owner, who often moves so fast that slowing down to take pause and give himself a back pat becomes a low priority.

If you’re writing a book in order to attract clients, people will want to hire you after reading your book. Still, it shouldn’t be a 100- to 200-page ad for your services. In order for your book to be successful—not to mention deeply meaningful for you—it has to be so detailed and transparent that a reader could finish reading it and do whatever it is you’re describing. But the book also has to display your knowledge so impressively that a reader looking to hire someone with your expertise would only want to hire you.

That’s why you need to get very clear both about what problem you’re solving and what you want your readers to do when they finish your book. Do you want them to hire your company? Employ you as a consultant? Take your course or sign up for your coaching program? Pay you to speak? Ask you out on a date? (If it’s the last one, there are easier ways to make that happen.) Whatever it is, figure it out before—or as—you write.

I wrote and published six books without realizing this, concluding that there was no point in writing any more books since they left me broke and with no options beyond ghost- writing books for other people. It was only when a sports agent named Darren Prince reached out to me that I wised up. He wanted to get involved in the addiction and recovery advocacy space, and he saw that I’d written a New York Times bestseller about addiction.

He asked me if I’d be open to writing his book.

It was around the same time I’d received an email from a writer I knew asking if I could give her writing work. So I asked Darren if I could hire her to write the book.

He told me that as long as I edited it, that was fine.

So, she wrote the book, and I edited it. When I presented it back to Darren, he explained that he next wanted it published. So I learned about layouts and cover designs, ISBNs and uploading—all the things publishers had done for me up to that point.

We launched Darren’s book and honestly, I was shocked when he landed a six-figure spokesperson deal almost immediately after the book came out.

I was surprised again a few months later when he got his first paid speaking gig. I stopped being surprised once he got himself on some of the biggest TV shows and podcasts in order to promote his book and firmly established himself as a recovery advocate and expert.

But what astounded me even more was that the book made his sports agency even more successful. Once people knew his personal story, he told me, business negotiations started to feel like conversations with friends, which only resulted in more and better deals.

To be clear, Darren is a hustler bar none. When the book came out, he called in favors, worked the phone and always carried his book with him.

After Darren’s success, other entrepreneurs came to me, and the more they did, the more I saw their books transform them into authorities. As I built a team and grew the business —we’ve now published over 50 books, several of which have become Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestsellers—our clients’ accomplishments also grew. It’s become standard for me to see clients featured on shows like Today and The Doctors and be quoted in The New York Times.

I’m embarrassed to say that it wasn’t until I’d had my company for a year or two that I truly understood how crucial books are for CEOs and other entrepreneurs. I finally woke up to the fact that there was a reason the most respected entrepreneurs out there—from Tim Ferriss to Robert Kiyosaki to Marie Forleo—had books.

I realized then that any business owner who wanted to build trust so they could magnify the success of their business shouldn’t just consider publishing a book but actually needed to publish a book. I also realized that if the person’s goal was to transform their business and life, their book couldn’t be one of those 100-page ones that exist just so the person could call him or herself an author. It had to be exquisite. It had to be their legacy, something they’d be proud to stand behind for the rest of their life.

Understanding that changed everything for me.

***

Publishing your own book can, of course, mean many things. It can mean writing every word yourself and publishing it under your name. It can mean hiring a ghostwriter but handling the publishing on your own. It can mean working with a hybrid publisher that takes a percentage of your sales or hiring a custom publisher that gives you all the profits. It can mean a gorgeous layout and cover that’s indistinguishable from a traditionally published New York Times bestselling book.

It really depends on your goal and how you want to spend your time.

If you’re an entrepreneur running a profitable business and you want a book to help you grow your expertise, I always advise people to look at it like this: how much, roughly, do you make an hour?

If it’s, say, $300, calculate that by how long you think it would take you to write and publish a book. (The rough estimate I’ve heard is that it takes a first-time author roughly 300 hours.)

If you’re doing the math, you’ve spent $90,000 and haven’t even gotten into the editing or publishing yet.

But if the lifetime value of a client is, say, $25,000, you only need to attract four clients from the book and you’ve earned that back.

(As a non-math person, those calculations took me way longer than they should have, so I do hope you’ll take them in.)

Of course, just because you published your book doesn’t mean people will immediately flock to you. But if you already have a business, it can have an immediate impact on that business.

Within a month of launching my book Make Your Mess Your Memoir, my company brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars in terms of new clients. And a consultant I know who advises people on how to sell to the government told me that a few months after his book release, he’d brought in half a million dollars in new contracts. “I can’t say for sure it’s the book that did it,” he said, “but I do know that every new client had read the book.”

Entrepreneur and New York Times bestselling author JJ Virgin put it like this when I interviewed her for Entrepreneur magazine: “If people read my books, they’ll buy my products. We have a relationship. They just took you into their bedroom or bathroom. They feel like they know you.”

Of course, to help them get to know you in a way that makes them want to hire you requires a very specific type of book—and presence.

What’s in this book isn’t just based on my own experiences and those of my clients. It’s also culled from hundreds of interviews I’ve done with other New York Times bestselling authors and top entrepreneurs on my podcast.

There’s nothing in this book about how to outline, write or publish your book. There’s enough out there on those topics.

Instead, this book breaks down exactly what you should do before and after your book is written and published if you want to be considered an authority.

Its specific focus is on the three parts that make up my 7- step process:

Preparing (which you should do before and while your book is being written)
Promoting (which you should be thinking about and doing while your book is being written so you’re set up for success once you’re launching)

Profiting (which happens after publication)

Broken down further, it is:

Prepare (Conceive/Nurture)

Promote (Show Your Face/Share Your Voice/Get Creative)

Profit (Get On Stages/Get Clients)

If you’re the visual type who’s into cute icons, here’s what it looks like:

There’s just one deal we have to make: you need to do something to build your authority every day. Maybe it’s working on your book or the business your book will support. Maybe it’s sending out a newsletter. Maybe it’s posting on social media. It doesn’t matter what it is; just do something. If you’re thinking, “Easy for you to say, but you don’t know how busy I am,” I challenge you to find a way to embrace this process—both the writing and the authority building—until it becomes a habit. I promise you it will be worth it.

I’ve created a calendar that can help you (you can access it by going to www.ongoodgifts.com) but there’s something else I want you to do that will really hammer the habit home. When you finish reading this book (after reviewing it on Amazon, of course), email 10 people you know to tell them you’re going to be writing a book that can support your business (or soon-to-be business), and building your authority around it; see if they want to join you in the process or just let you check in with them as you make progress. You can find sample copy for those emails on www.ongoodgifts.com.

Here’s why I’m pushing you so hard to do this: if you have a business your how-to book supports, and you plan and promote that book following the system I’m giving you, you’ll be amazed by how many opportunities it will bring in. And it doesn’t even matter how many (or few) copies you sell! As multiple New York Times bestselling author Robert Greene told me, “Your book could have sold 11 copies over the course of 10 years, but you can show it to people, and they’re impressed.”

Echoes Chris Voss, “Even if the only people that actually pay for copies are your parents, there’s no better marketing tool or calling card than a book. It becomes the most viable busi- ness card you’ve ever had.”

Still, it’s even better if the right people read it—people who can become your clients, hire you to speak, buy your products or work with you in some other way. I’d rather have 100 readers who are going to be impacted by this book—and possibly reach out to me for help in their own authority-building book creation—than 10,000 people who won’t really absorb the information at all.

Many people try to launch books that change their lives and very few are successful. But with the help of Greene, Voss and the others, I’m going to show you how to become one of them.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

Connect Your Way to a Successful Book Launch with Ryan Paugh

 

Do the words "networking for your book launch" make you want to curl up in a small ball and rock back and forth?

This week's guest will assuage your anxieties...or at least get you to uncurl.

Ryan Paugh isn't just a thought leader, but also a community-building, relationship-forging, entrepreneur-enabling force to be reckoned with. And he's a self-proclaimed introvert!

The co-author of the book Superconnector: Stop Networking and Start Building Business Relationships That Matter, Ryan shares in this episode how any author, introvert or extrovert, can use basic skills for connection in order to have a successful book launch.

HERE'S HOW I CAN HELP YOU WHEN YOU'RE READY:

→ You can sign up to hear my secrets every week at www.AuthoritySecrets.Club

→ You can grab my Book Launch Blueprint for $20 (it gives you over 29 PDFs that we use for the launches of clients who pay tens of thousands of dollars) 

→ You can apply for a call to work with Legacy Launch Pad (we have packages that range from $3k-150k)

RELATED EPISODES:  

How to Launch a Book by Giving First with Kay Allison

The Debut of Launch Pad with Dave Chesson

TRANSCRIPT: 

Anna: So I have the, the expert on super connecting here with me. And we know he's amazing at it because he's been so patient with me having to rerecord this episode. And so, so that's part of being a super connector, I imagine. Right, Ryan?

Ryan: Patience is a virtue. Sure.

Anna: It is.

Ryan: I think it's also a great quality to have if you're building community or building connection. So yeah, yeah, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to hang out with you again.

Anna: I love it. I love it. So you wrote this amazing book, Super Connector. So amazing that I recommended it on KTVU TV.

Ryan: Thank you for that by the way. That was fun.

Anna: Tell me… It was, I love the book. And so tell me what is being a super connector? And how can an author utilize or become a super connector?

Ryan: Yeah, I think being a super connector is something that anyone in any trade can obtain. And really, it's it's just about utilizing and leveraging all of the communications tools that exists, in our modern social media era, to build bridges, to make connections, to put people first. I can tell you that everything in my career has come because of an opportunity that someone else had laid out in front of me. And those opportunities didn't just present themselves on their own. They manifested due to what I like to call habitual generosity. Finding moments in your everyday to give back and support other people and help them be successful knowing that, in turn over time, that generosity is going to build dividends that are going to help you reap benefits in your own life. But it's not transactional. It's about giving, understanding that organically you're going to get so much more in return from that action than just trying to sell, sell, sell.

Anna: So tell me how, you know, an author working on a book hears this and says, okay, well, but who do I do that to?

Ryan: Well, well, anyone. People like Anna, as an example, who have an audience, who have a podcast, who have reach. Find ways to support her and others like her who have influence within your field or within your area of study. Find people that are looking to tell stories about the types of things you wrote about in your book. And through those relationships and through that generosity, find ways to exchange and support one another that will be helpful to them, but also helpful for you. In this specific situation, becoming a guest on someone's podcast, being able to reach someone's network through a newsletter, being able to reach someone's audience on Instagram, being able to speak physically in a room with an audience that someone has in a location nearby. You know, those relationships don't just come because you reached out and made the request typically. Sometimes they do. But more often than not, we're all being battered with information and requests and people that are trying to just perform basic transactions. And we've been programmed by ourselves to ignore those people and pay attention to those who come to the table with a genuine opportunity, a genuine sense of generosity and, and they want to create something that's mutual, mutually beneficial. Oftentimes, that happens through leading with a give versus an ask. So I think that's really what it's all about with, with you know, launching a book, I think. When Scott and I launched our book, many years ago now, we had built up generosity with so many people over the years that, I don’t want to say it was easy, but it was definitely easier to fill our schedules with opportunities to get in front of audiences when we finally had something of ours that we wanted to share.

Anna: Yeah, that was very well said. So, so would a way to start maybe doing a review of a podcast that you like and knowing unless it's, you know, Tim Ferriss, that podcast host will probably see the review and it logs in their brain. Is that, is that a way to start? Is commenting on an Instagram post another way to start? And [inaudible] listeners like some things to do?

Ryan: Yeah, I mean, it could be something simple. It doesn’t have to be like this, you know, big sort of exchange the sort of like, you know, monumentous moments that you know. I don't know, that has like some major impact. You know, it's the little things that people appreciate. Just reaching out and saying thank you to someone. Sharing a podcast, sharing something you liked about that podcast. Making a connection between an individual and someone else that you think they should know. Helping someone else out with their book launch. I mean, if you are an author, I would say you probably, probably already know other people like you in similar positions that are looking to launch a book, you know. Join their newsletter lists and be on their book squad and help them launch with success by, you know, performing some simple actions, tweets, book reviews, etc. Those people will remember those things when it's time for you to go out and um, and sell your book. It's funny, you mentioned Tim Ferriss though, because Tim Ferriss almost wrote about Super Connector. It didn't happen because he has layers and layers of people in between him and his newsletter, and him and his blog, and so on. But the reason that opportunity came about is Scott and I invited him to a dinner. We were in Utah skiing, for one of our Young Entrepreneur retreats. And, you know, just by happenstance, Tim Ferriss was staying in the condo next door. Just by himself for the weekend. Getting prepared to launch something new and exciting as Tim does. And we knew that we had a couple extra seats at the table for, you know, our entrepreneur group that night. So we invited him to come down to a lodge and join us. And that's how we built a relationship just through this, you know, couple hours we spent together, inviting him out to spend time with a group of like-minded individuals versus, you know, sitting at home doing whatever he would have done by himself. And that allowed us to open the door several years later to see if there was an opportunity to, to do something with him. Most people won't even get a return response from someone of that level. But because we, you know, had done that just small exchange years prior, we had a chance. And those chances, you know, sometimes lead to really big opportunities.

Anna: I love that. That's amazing. And next book, he probably…

Ryan: I hope he listens to this and feels really bad that he didn't actually write about us. So then next book, he will [laughs].

Anna: Tim is, yeah, Tim is a huge fan of mine. He's never told me that.

Ryan: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Anna: But I feel it, you know what I mean? Um, you know, something that, that you just said that I think is important is, is joining launch squads. Now, it's interesting because I told you, you know, when we spoke before, I wasn't, I mean, right now I'm in heavy duty prep mode for this book that's coming out. And, you know, I put out a request for launch squad members. Now, this is a good tip, actually, which I'm going to inadvertently reveal. I didn't really get a great response, I got a, if you take the percentage of my list versus how many people said, sure, sure, I'll join. I'm a tiny 2%. So then I had a thought, and I go, you know what people really respond, they're inundated with help me, support me. I sent out an email and I said, my book’s in trouble. Will you help me? And it was kind of humbling because it's not really true. But double the, oh, my God, yes, I'm here for you. Um, which I don't know really what that has to do with, with supporting people. But I will say, I know every, even though there's hundreds of people on that launch squad, I know who all of them are because they are the people who show up every time. And it means a lot.

Ryan: Well, people like, I, I'm a firm believer that people genuinely like to help other people with real problems. I think leading with, hey, can you promote me and like put out a tweet to do X, Y and Z. It's not going to generate a response for a lot of people because it doesn't seem urgent. And we're all super busy. But, you know, that vulnerability that so many of us are afraid to, to lead with, can sometimes be a stalling out. Right? Like, you know, being able to, you know, you know, there's, there's a lot of truth, I'm sure to the fact that your book was in trouble because you were feeling a sense of anxiety that you didn't have a strong community behind you. But you did. It's just, you know, that message wasn't your sincere self, and then you send something out that was the sincere Anna that I know. And you know, look, everything turned itself around. More people need to be willing to lead with, you know, a weakness or something that levels the playing field. I think that's a really important factor in everything that we do.

Anna: So true, it's so, I know it's very hard for me personally and I know it's hard for other people. So, so let's say you're out there supporting people, you're reviewing their podcasts, you're applying to their newsletters, you're joining their launch squads, you're sharing their podcasts. And I know, I mean, it almost feels wrong to ask this because the whole point is to just be of service. But when is an appropriate time to then ask for support?

Ryan: Um, this is the answer that you don't want. And this is the answer that the listeners don't want to hear. But it's the truth, as far as I know things to be, you just know.

Anna: Yep.

Ryan: And, and as a, as a super connector, I think one of the skills you need to build is that level of emotional intelligence of just knowing. If that makes sense.

Anna: It does.

Ryan: It doesn't come easy. There's some great, there's some great books out there, some great podcasts around how to build emotional intelligence in and out of the workplace. But I think that's sort of the key to figuring it out.

Anna: Now, I think a lot of writers consider themselves and feel like they're introverts. And so they say, well, I can't do this. So you are a self-described introvert, what do you have to say to that?

Ryan: Introverts are some of the best super connectors and some of the best community builders on the planet, because they know how to step back and just be a part of the room and be a part of the community without having to lead the community. They're not the people that spend time leading the conversation or at the center of the room. They’re, they tend to be sort of on the, the parameters of that nucleus, so to speak. And they listen, they listen better than those that are talking. And they find ways to connect the dots because they're, you know, really paying attention. And they're on a different wavelength, which allows them to find opportunities that extroverts who are working so hard to be as active as they can and the conversation just, just aren't listening to.

Anna: Mm hmm. And so when you had your book coming out, you guys had built up a lot of, I mean, social capital. Is that an inappropriate word?

Ryan: It’s a little jargony. But yeah, it works.

Anna: Yeah. And so how did you guys prepare for your book launch?

Ryan: I, Scott and I, I think had the benefit of being, you know, on the front lines and building community for 10 plus years. So we had a lot of connections, and a lot of individuals who, as part of our day job at community dot co (www.community.co), we had been helping and supporting through our associations, right. We've built a business around giving back and helping entrepreneurs and busy executives connect and level up in their career. So that helped us. If we didn't have that, I would have spent a lot of time, you know, contributing to communities and associations like the ones we create. I would be joining Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, different associations, where I could meet and support individuals within my field of interest to build up that, you know, social capital if you will, right. And, you know, just look for those spaces, online and offline, where organic collisions take place that allow you to give back and support others and, you know, build those relationships that are going to help you succeed in whatever you have coming up down the road. You know, as an author, I think you should be planning that out at least a year in advance. If not, if not like for the better part of your career leading up to a book launch. You know, I think no matter what you're doing, you should be building that social capital up, you know, in every single, you know, instance of your day. As you're, you know, just going about the, you know, everyday execution of your, your business and your work. You got to find those little morsels in the day to create that habit of bringing generosity back into the ecosystem that you play in.

Anna: Would you recommend even setting aside time in your calendar? Like, okay, I’m going to put this in my calendar?

Ryan: Yeah, whatever works. For some people it comes more natural. And, you know, I know a lot of people who, you know, have, have a tough time focusing on, like the actual work work because they, once they get into the generous mode of giving, they just, it can consume your day. And that's great until you have to get back to, you know, actually doing things. I mean, you do have to treat it like another task and you have to be a really good task manager to be successful. Good time management is the key to, you know, building anything great. And that includes making sure that you're managing your time to, to give and to, and to, you know, create that habitual generosity in your life.

Anna: Yeah, and something to mention with this is, you know, all studies show that giving is, you know, the one of the greatest keys to happiness. So you're not only getting out of yourself and being of service, it's, it's, it's an esteem-building activity. Because you realize you have a lot more power than you may realize to really support anybody.

Ryan: Yeah, it feels good. And that's, you know, that's also the nice thing about it is, you know, giving back feels good, and it adds, you know, sort of this, like, natural energy back into the work that you're doing. So, it doesn't matter if you have a book launch, you know. I know, we're, I know, we're talking to authors here, but it's, this isn't, this isn't stuff that is, you know, just about preparing for your book launch. This is stuff that's all about preparing to be successful in building anything, you know. In work, and outside of work is building that sense of community. And, you know, making sure that you are, you know, always making time to support others and what they're interested in, you know, through everything that you do, as many times as you can.

Anna: So, what if an author says, I want to build a community? What would, what would your recommendation be, maybe that's online, maybe that's offline, they just go for look for, like…

Ryan: I think it's important to, you know, do your research and know what's already out there. You know, certainly like, the, you know, sort of technology and monetary barriers of creating a community on a platform, they don't really exist too much anymore. I mean, you can go create a free Facebook group tomorrow and build a community. But, you know, who's already doing that? Do you, do you have to? Or can you be a part of a community that someone else has created? You know, Young Entrepreneur Council is one of the first communities that me and Scott created together. I didn't technically found that organization, you know. Scott started it and we sort of connected through me being a member and it was reborn. As you know, the association that it is today with myself as a co-founder, and everything that we've done since is kind of, you know, just snowballed from, from us bringing our collective superpowers to the table. So I didn't start that from scratch, necessarily. I just helped take it to another phase. You know, you're, you're one of our, you know, publishing and book author, member leaders with Fast Company Innovation Board. And I think that, you know, that's another way to build community within a community that didn't already exist, you know. You're helping bring that skill set and those superpowers to the table. And, you know, creating your own micro community within an ecosystem that already exists. There's a lot of ways to do it.

Anna: Yeah. And I think that's an interesting point. So yes, Ryan and I met because I'm a Fast Company Board member and you very generously, well, it's interesting, because it's mutually beneficial. You reached out and you said, hey, we've got this book publishing group. I think you'd be a good leader for it. And, you know, you very clearly explained what was required. Not a lot, let's be honest. And, you know and, and you were able to create these communities within Fast Company, where there's just subgroups of people interested. And I will say, I made what I would consider friends in that community and it's not like we're interacting a lot. But you know, and I would love to sort of talk about how, you know, how you've done that at magazines and, and maybe if people are interested in joining like, what is the Fast Company Board? Can we talk about that?

Ryan: Yeah, so Fast Company Executive Board. I misspoke earlier. Not Innovation Board, Executive Board is a community of executives that are leading innovation initiatives in various industries. And a lot of them are very tech oriented. But it ranges from media, marketing, creative, etc., all the things that you would, you know, imagine that Fast Company stands for if you pick up the magazine and read it ever, you know. It's that ethos. And we built a strong community of executives and entrepreneurs behind that. And the idea is that we provide access to visibility, connections and growth. A lot of the same connections and growth opportunities you would get from membership associations that you may already be a part of. But we're mostly digital, you know, we're about real time connection. Where a lot of associations are really focused on that forum or that conference that you attend several times per year. We try to be kind of like your bat signal. And oh, my God, I need help with my, my book launch. I'm going to get into that, you know, Fast Company Executive Board app, and I'm going to talk to Anna and the book publishers’ group. You know, we want to be available for busy executives and entrepreneurs when their problems are happening, which for most of us is like right now. And they can't wait till the next conference. So we want to be kind of like, you know, that support system in your pocket that you can access and get support from anytime you need. And then of course, because we are, you know, a partner and, and a piece of the Fast Company ecosystem, we're able to help members publish thought leadership in their respective trades. So we have an in-house editorial team that helps our members write tips and advice-based content from their practitioner lens that gets published on fast company dot com (www.fastcompany.com) and can help them get in front of the Fast Company readership. And also create content on a fairly reputable platform that also, you know, gives our members the opportunity to showcase their affiliation, which, which is meaningful and significant for, for business owners and executives that are looking to build authority in their space.

Anna: Yeah, so if people listening want to join their, their, you know, fellow thought leaders or entrepreneurs, I will say, it wasn't easy. It's not like it's something that's promoted widely. You know, there is clearly a, you know, a measure of exclusivity to it. It's not sort of just like, yay, I want to sign up, where do I link? How do people…

Ryan: Yeah, so, I would invite anyone who's curious to go to board dot fast company dot com (board.fastcompany.com), read about the benefits. We've got a cool little innovators quiz on there. If you want to kind of just, you know, see some of the content and some of the things that we do as an organization. And then if you think that you might qualify and you think that you might want to talk to our team, click on the Do I Qualify button. Read through some of the qualifications and fill out a form. You know, like Anna said, is, this is not like a click and buy kind of operation, you know, this is an exclusive group. And, you know, we, we literally talk to, at least once before they join, every single member on the phone, you know. There's, there's a review process, there's a conversation that you'll have with our selection committee, and if, you know, the shoe fits, we'll, you know, invite individuals to join us as members and start becoming a part of the community, contributing and supporting others on the platform, and also working with our team to build up some really fantastic thought leadership content.

Anna: Mm hmm. And you're allowed to post, I think, as often as once a month?

Ryan: It could be as often as, as that, you know, or it depends sometimes on the quality of content. And, you know, we are, you know, pretty strict about, you know, what we publish and how we publish. You'll go through at least two rounds of editing. So the typical member will publish every four to six weeks if they're looking to publish that often. But, you know, most members will publish a couple times a year. A couple of strategic pieces that really help them with positioning and, and the narrative that they're trying to get across and trying to build around their company goals. And then they'll renew again, because, you know, having that ability to work with a team that helps you craft such interesting content is a value add and something that, you know, very few business owners just have in their back pocket at the go.

Anna: Mm hmm. So I, so one thing I was going to ask you about the super connecting idea. What about, and because this is something that I've recently ran into, people you're really like pouring into and supporting and when it comes time to support you, they aren't so there for you. How do you know? You know, it's always illuminating to me when I'm doing something and asking for support. Oftentimes the most successful busy people write back right away. How can I help? What can I do? And people maybe who I've done a lot of favors for, you know, can't really be bothered to, to do anything. How do you know?

Ryan: Yeah, I don’t think you necessarily know till you know, right. You know, there's always going to be a couple people that don't show up. And it's disappointing. I hope that, you know, most people who put in genuine effort to give back towards others are going to get a lot more yesses than nos. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be excited, or you shouldn't be disappointed by the nos. Like, that's just natural reaction, but it's going to happen. And, and I think there, the important thing to remember is, you don't know what's going on in the personal lives of every individual that you are, you know, exchanging with and supporting. You know, like, the benefit of the doubt is important. Just because someone didn't show up doesn't mean, they might, you know, never show up, right. I think it's just a game of patience. To go full circle to the beginning of our podcast here together, you have to have patience to be a super connector and you have to understand that not everyone is going to always show up. But again, it's not, it's not about always reaping, you know, all of the gains. It's about giving back to others and knowing that, you know, you will get dividends. You're not going to produce dividends on every, you know, single person that you've, you know, done a favor for, but you're gonna get a lot of return on that generosity. A lot more than the folks that are just kind of, you know, using the social platforms to, you know, create more, you know, noise than, than actual, like frequency and actual value. So, you know, just, just focus on the positive and try not to, you know, spend too much time worrying about the few folks that, that didn't show up. It's okay to be disappointed for a minute, but you know, then you shake it off, and you move on.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and my mentor Joe Polish will say, be someone people want to pick up the phone for. Become someone people want to help. That, I mean, that's really, I think the best message is you want help, become someone people want to help and people want to help those who, who help. Um, so, final words, Ryan. If people want to find you, find out more about Super Connector or the Fast Company Board, Young Entrepreneurs Council.

Ryan: Yeah, so, you know, my company's community dot co (www.community.co). We build and manage communities, as well as we build platforms to support professional associations and, and people that already have communities to build up their programming, to build new retention mechanisms to support their business. Fast Company Executive Board is a great community, board dot fast company dot com (board.fastcompany.com). We run many other industry associations. If you want to learn more about them, you can, you know, reach out. I'm on Twitter at Ryan Paugh (@ryanpaugh). Ryan Paugh dot com (www.ryanpaugh.com) is my website, the book Super Connector, super connector book dot com (www.superconnectorbook.com). And I think that's it. I mean, you know, if you're any bit a super connector, you'll be able to find me online really quickly, because I'm really easy to find.

Anna: Great. Well, Ryan, thank you so, so much. You guys, thanks for listening, and I'll talk to you next week.

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Why It's Better to Sell 100 Books Than 10,000

 

Traditional publishers lie.

They tell you that you have to sell 10,000 copies of your book for it to be successful.

Or 5000.

Or 1000.

They're wrong. I'd rather sell 100 copies of my book to the right reader than 10,000 copies to readers who won't really care.

In this episode, I explain why.

This is another of the episodes based on the book I'm writing. Speaking of, if you want exclusive stories, resources and info about this book as I write it, you can sign up for that on annadbook.com.

RELATED EPISODES:  

The Debut of Launch Pad with Dave Chesson

Mike Koenigs on Why You Need to Have a Product Embedded in Your Book

How Did Alex Strathdee Get 40,000 Students to Read His Book?

What a Book Can Do For an Entrepreneur with Rich Goldstein

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Hello, and welcome to the podcast that wants you to both be able to be an author and actually pay your rent or pay a mortgage or, and have the life you want. My name is Anna David and I am giving you one of my solo episodes. By the way, it's brought to you by my secret newsletter. You can get on it by going to authority secrets dot club (www.authoritysecrets.club). And if you want the show notes just go to Legacy Launchpad Pub dot com slash blog slash one hundred (www.legacylaunchpadpub.com/blog/100). The actual numbers 1-0-0. And that's because this episode, which is based on the book that I have coming out April 23rd, is all about how selling 100 copies of your book can change your life. AKA, it's better to sell 100 copies to the right readers whose lives are going to be changed, who may hire you, than 10,000 readers who simply won't care. This is also about how, have they been lying to you? They, those evil they! They have been telling you it's all about making the New York Times list, it's all about selling 10s of 1000s of copies, it's all about book tours. It's no, it's not. Robert Greene told me when I interviewed him for this podcast, your book could have sold 11 copies over the course of 10 years. But you can show it to people and they're impressed. That's of course, only if it's a very high quality book. Chris Voss said on the podcast, even if the only people that actually pay for copies are your parents, there's no better marketing tool or calling card than a book. It becomes the most viable business card you've ever had.

Now this is something I experienced firsthand every year when I go to my mentor Joe Polish’s Genius Network event. So I have talked about this on the podcast before, but in case you've never heard it or you feel like hearing it in a new way. I wrote my book Make your Mess Your Memoir with this couple in mind. It's this couple that I know from Genius Network. I've always loved them. They're like my surrogate parents, but they don't, they're not old enough to be my surrogate parents. But it doesn't matter. Surrogate. You're making it up, you know what I mean? And, um, I talked to them about, about them hiring my company to do a book. And so my book, Make Your Mess Your Memoir, every page, I thought about them. I thought like, I thought like, would they like that? Would that be too much for them? Would that shock them? Would that speak to them? And I finished the book and they never read it. I didn't tell them about it. I mean, I super liked them. But I don't see them all that often. Lots and lots of other people just like them did hire my company, we brought in 100s of 1000s of dollars in new business. So time passes and I run into them at the Genius Network annual event. And I go, oh my God, I have this funny thing to tell you. I wrote this book for you. Basically, I was like, I’m on Good Morning America with it. It was great for my business and they go what? And it happened to be at the gifting suite that was there at Genius Network. And so they went and they picked up a copy. And by the way, now we're working with them. They hired us.

My point is that, um, I knew what I wanted with that book. My why was a want to show successful entrepreneurs, thought leaders, business owners, CEOs, founders, that a book will be the best business card they could possibly have. How can I share this with them in a way that's entertaining? And because I had that why, because I had that intention throughout, it didn't matter to me if 10s of 1000s of people bought the book. When I was on Good Morning America, I went and looked at Amazon. My Amazon number didn't change that much. But the people who saw it, who ended up hiring me, that's who matters.

Now Rich Goldstein, who's a patent attorney I've had on the podcast has a method. He says he just offers the book for free to anyone who requests it. I was at an event with him in Vegas a couple months ago. And he had his office FedEx copies in for everyone there. It's worth the expense, the trouble, whatever it is, because people read it and then they go, oh, I want to hire, this guy really knows. He wrote the book on the topic. I want to hire him. So Rich was very into Clubhouse. Remember Clubhouse, late 2020, early 2021? And so he would go on Clubhouse, talk about startup rooms, about patent attorneys in, you know, getting patents and all of these things and he would always just say, hey, if you want a free copy of my book, just email me or message me or sign into my DMs or whatever. And he said he got over 100 book requests and landed at least five clients just from like a couple months on Clubhouse. Now depending on how much you've charged for a client that that can be a really big deal.

Alan Weiss, who's the author of Million Dollar Consulting suggests -- and I recommend this to everybody -- if you have a business book and you know your ideal client, send them a copy of the book but actually send them two copies. Sign both. Put both in the mail. Now the rationale is every potential client you know knows another potential client and people are not very likely to throw away signed books. So that potential client will probably give the second copy to someone else who could be a potential client. And I'll tell you I went to one of Alan Weiss's seminars in New York a couple years ago. And he put this big, you know, those, they're not whiteboards, they're like those big notebooks kind of that you put at the front of a room. And he went around the room and he said, how did you hear about me, originally? Now this was a, this was a conference that costs about $1000 to go to. So he goes around the room, there's, you know, 80 people in the room. And he goes, how did you first hear about me so that made you end up here? And everybody, and as soon as someone said what it was, he wrote it on the poster, or on the notebook page, and it was, you know, I read your book, I saw one of your videos, I heard about you from blah, blah, blah, I saw you on a web search, whatever it is. Everybody. What dwarfed every other response was book, including me. That's how I discovered, oh, I heard him on a podcast and then I read his book. And then I signed up for his conference. It is, um, and I will put in the show notes, I took a picture of that poster at the time. Because I was like, that is fascinating. I'm going to want to remember this. So go to the show notes, you'll see what I'm talking about in case I'm not explaining it super well.

Now another kind of person that you want to read your book is a teacher, as Rob Fitzpatrick told me when he came on the podcast. If a book gives teachers tools they can use, they don't recommend it to five people, they recommend it to 5000. They're hungry. If they read it and think here's a new framework or here's a new tool or concept, they know you can use it in their classes. Rob has been incredibly successful at that with his book, The Mom Test. And, and it's something that, that obviously, not every topic lends itself to course material. But especially if you're, you're like, say a Gen X-er like me. College has changed a lot since I went in the 90s when I went to a liberal arts school, which is basically another way of saying you can't major in anything useful. Now people can major in all sorts of things where… I love college professors, love them deeply. Sometimes they really have no idea what's happening in the real world. And your book could absolutely help people in ways that typical course material wouldn’t. So you don't also have to be a book that is used in a course for it to be relevant for the educational market.

Alex Strathdee, for his first book, which was basically he wrote it with his friend right when they were out of college. And it basically said, like, you're totally unprepared for the real world. And he knew that college students, people graduating from college needed to read this book, but he didn't know how to get it to them. So weekend after weekend, he'd sit in coffee shops, and he'd web scrape 1000s of email addresses of college administrators. And he emailed each, offering the book for free to their students. So out of that, 50 schools got back to him. And 11 agreed to distribute the e-book to their students. And through that they got their book in front of 40,000 students. But still, they weren't making money. They were giving it to the, the schools who are giving it to their students. So then they thought, well, this is wonderful. We like eyeballs but how can we actually monetize this? And so in the same way that they compiled the list of 3000 University contacts, they compiled another list. This one was of the email addresses of over 200 different companies they thought would want to hire those college seniors. And then they went and they offered them ad space in the book. He said, Alex said, we essentially turned our book into a product and they ended up landing six advertisers including Kohl's who paid $1000. So it made them not only enough money to pay for what they'd invested in the book, but also enough to support them in launching their first two companies. So you also can have a course that you link to in the book.

Pat Flynn's book Will It Fly?, he links to a free course he created throughout the book, and it's not, you know, I read the book. It didn't feel like you're being hammered with this thing. It just was mentioned when it was relevant. And I had Dave Chesson on the podcast and he helped Pat Flynn with his launch and he shared about this. What Pat did is he emailed those people who signed up for the free course, invited them to a paid course that built on what was in the free course. And from just that alone, he made $111,000. So that's not from his whole list, that is just from the list of people who signed up for the free course and then bought the paid course from the book. Then I had Mike Koenigs on the podcast, and he talked about how he made seven and a half million dollars from one book. You got, I'm gonna link to all these episodes. And you know, it's very, Mike Koenigs is the best salesperson I know. But basically the book led people to, into a funnel that included a live webinar that included a live of them that included a way to create a product for them. And you know, in the way he talked about it is you're attracting people to your book, and then you're inviting them. You're saying, do you want to know more about this topic? And when they say yes, if you continue to invite them to learn more in a way that is going to benefit them and they are your right reader and right client, it is an everybody wins situation. So that is my episode on why it is better to have 100 of the right readers than 10,000 of the wrong ones. And I'll see you next time.

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Why Podcasts are the Best Promo for Authors (and How to Get on Them)

 

Good news: going on podcasts is the best way to promote your book. Podcast listeners are eager to learn and read books.

Even more good news: Podcast hosts love to book authors.

So there has to be a catch, right?

Well, here it is: most of us are pitched daily, in the worst ways.

Listen to this episode to find out the absolute best way to pitch yourself to the podcasts you want to be on...and then how to slay once you're on there.

This is another of the episodes based on the book I'm writing. Speaking of, if you want exclusive stories, resources and info about this book as I write it, you can sign up for that on annadbook.com.

As promised, here's the "Can't lose" podcast pitch template:

Hi TK:

I’ve listened to a lot of podcasts, but I’m honestly blown away by yours. TK REASON WHY. I made sure to include what I like about your show in a review on iTunes (see attached!)

I know your show covers TK INFO ABOUT WHAT SHOW ADDRESSES, and I’d like to audaciously pitch myself as a guest. 

PARAGRAPH ABOUT YOU AND WHY YOU’D MAKE A GREAT GUEST.

I also very much relate to what you’ve shared about TK THING THEY’VE SHARED ABOUT AND WHY YOU RELATE.

I loved your conversations with TK PREVIOUS INTERVIEWS WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE SIMILAR TO YOU. 

Here are some potential interview ideas:

5 IDEAS IN BULLET POINTS

Other interesting things about me:

PARAGRAPH THAT ENCOMPASSES SOME QUIRKY THINGS ABOUT YOU

[ONLY INCLUDE THIS IF YOU’VE BEEN ON SHOWS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THIS ONE]: I’ve appeared as a guest on dozens of shows. Here are a few examples that might be relevant for your audience: 

TK EXAMPLES WITH LINKS

Let me know if you and your team think I could be a good fit for the show or want to chat further. Either way, thank you for the great show.

Respectfully,

TK

RELATED EPISODES:  

How to Set Up an Author Podcast Tour with Alex Sanfilippo

Why a Book Is the World's Best Business Card with Chris Voss

Why to Ignore the Muse with Robert Greene

How to Get on Podcasts to Promote Your Book with John Corcoran

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna here, welcome to the podcast that doesn't want you to have to keep keep clicking refresh, to find out your how your book is selling because you don't care how your book is selling because you are too busy living the fabulous life that your book has given you.

This is a solo episode, based on information that's in my book On Good Authority coming to you April 23 of 2023. And this is all about how promoting yourself and your book on podcasts, which is the absolute best thing to do provided you do it right and this episode is all about how to do it right.

Chris Voss Best Selling Author of Never Split the Difference credits podcast for the tremendous success of his book he said he he hired Ryan Holiday legendary book marketer and author and Ryan got him on Lewis Howes' podcast and he said it just hit hard. From there. He went to Dax Shepard's podcast, he was on James Altucher's podcast, and the book has sold millions upon millions of copies and really came out of nowhere.

Now, great news, podcasters love to book authors. authors have a lot to say, we know they're probably not going to, you know, be at a loss for words, even though some are introverts. So that's great news. John Corcoran, who I had on the podcast said, "I find authors much easier to say yes to because, you know, they're going to be good at answering questions, and they have great authority."

The bad news is we are pitched authors all the time, I receive, at least I would say four terrible pitches a day. And the problem is, if you go and hire somebody who says, I'm gonna get you on podcasts, and they kind of subscribe to the spray and pray method, which is that they just pitch over 1000s of people, and maybe they're gonna get two yeses. We now there are a few agencies where I just have such a negative association with those people in my inbox that if they were pitching someone great, I would know they were great, because I'd be like, Oh, my God, these people. They pitch me people who are not authors. Now, this is a podcast about authors, and they don't know the name of the show. And that's not entirely their fault, because I changed the name all the time, but maybe try to know the name when you're pitching. Um, so you are far better off pitching yourself.

So how do you know who to pitch yourself to and how to do it? So go to I would say the biggest podcast in your genre in your field and be realistic. If you know it's a huge podcast, they're probably don't even accept guests. If you want to kind of drill down to a more realistic podcast, go to the iTunes page or whatever podcast app you're on. And go down to the bottom where it says listeners who liked this also liked and kind of just keep going down and down and down until you get to ones that you think are really realistic. It has guests, obviously, make sure the podcast is still active. It has at least 100 episodes they've released at least in the last few weeks. And write a kick ass pitch letter.

I'm pasting below a template for a kick ass pitch letter and a copy of the worst pitch I've ever received. And and so step number one, review the podcast review on iTunes. It's the secret to every podcaster's heart. When you pitch with a super awesome pitch letter mentioned just casually I love your show so much. It's what I said in this attached review, attach a screenshot of the review and think about it. What can you this is not about you in your book. This is about how can you serve this podcaster's audience. You're going to be better the better the more familiar you are with the show, the better you're going to be at pitching yourself because you're going to see what the podcasters needs are.

But I think you know it is so much better to pitch yourself to a show that has your target audience that In a show with a million downloads, Alex Sanfilippo, who is a podcaster, who has numerous podcasting companies, including pod match, which actually matches podcasters, with podcast guests said, "So many people say, Oh, they only want to be on shows that have 100,000 downloads. Because they think of it like social media, they think, oh, it's like 50 likes, that doesn't mean that much. Well, if 50 people are gonna sit in a room and listen to you for half hour, would you do that suddenly, having 50 listeners doesn't sound like so few."

So there are obviously millions of shows out there. So you don't want to, you don't want to waste your time on the wrong ones. And you don't want to waste your time on ones that are out of reach. So think about it, how do you narrow it down? Well, think about your avatar. Think about your reader, think about who you want to hear the information from your book, when you're looking at podcasts, when you're listening to them, does this speak to that avatar, so you can sign up for pod match Alex's website, and that is just literally like a dating site for podcasters and podcast hosts. But I also recommend pitching yourself.

And with John Corcoran, who's podcaster and the co founder of Rise 25 said is you want to make yourself relevant to the podcaster. So if they have a narrow focus, you want to cater that to that. And the example he gave is "I know you feature only woodworking experts on your show. But I've noticed you haven't had anyone on who talks about the financial aspects of how woodworking businesses need to operate. And I just wrote a book that's the definitive guide on how to manage your finances for a woodworking business." So that's a very specific, excellent example.

So if you don't hear back, which a lot of the time you don't, I just, you know, for my new book, I decided I wanted to try to do some outreach like this. And so what I did is I went and I looked at podcasts that people who had written books like mine had been on, and I listen to them. And then I used a little hat GPT. And I went in, I asked for summaries, and I asked for other examples of episodes like that. And then I reached out to the podcaster, I reviewed, I attached a screenshot of the review. And I explained what it is I could talk about that I thought would be relevant to their listeners. Now. We, my team helped me we sent out about 10, I got two responses, which I didn't think was terrible. I will say one of those two was, Wow, this is an amazing pitch. It's so fantastic.

What I did want to those two responses, and you don't have to spend money, this is just literally just what I did. There's candy company called SugarWish where you can send someone $20 worth of candy. And it's a perfect small thank you when you don't have someone's mailing address, but you have their email address, and to just say thank you so much as it's so sweet of you to agree to book me. I can't wait to do it. Again. You don't have to do that.

John Corcoran said, assume if you don't hear back, the person didn't get your message message across various platforms. Now, yesterday, when I tried recording this episode, the three other times I was hearing myself say these words, and I realized I got to sort of drink my own Kool Aid. And so the eight people that we had not heard back from I went onto LinkedIn, and I messaged them. And you know, I tried different strategies. I'll have to let you know if that worked. Because I haven't been on LinkedIn today to see if it worked.

Listen to the podcasts ahead of time. To not listen to a podcast before you get on is to literally it's like showing up at a stranger's house and going like, Hey, will you introduce me to all your friends that you've worked, you know, five years to cultivate? I had a guy on my podcast recently whose team had pitched him very aggressively. And it was very clear when he logged on not only that he had no idea what I did, but he didn't care. And he was very excited to explain publishing to me despite it not being his business. And it's just like it just reminded me Don't ever do that.

So know the host and if you don't know the host fake like you know the host or like you care. What Robert Greene said when I had him on the podcast is to be a great podcast guest you have to be authentic and relaxed and willing to tell stories with some self deprecating humor. He said nothing is worse than an egotistical writer who kind of shows how wonderful they are and how great their book is; they're so eager to promote it, that they come off as if they have no sense of humor. And that definitely describes the person I'm talking about.

And what's something that Alex Sanfilippo said when I interviewed him, which always stuck with me is, the best way to promote your book is to not promote your book. He said, "If an author says, Well, I'm not going to tell you about chapter five, because you have to grab the book to learn about that, nobody's interested."

They're listening to podcasts, because they trust you. And, you know, oftentimes, so podcast listeners, as you all know, are highly educated, passionate people who want to learn. And a lot of times the reason that they're listening, I don't know about you, when I find a new podcast, I look at previous episodes. And either it's the guest I'm interested in, or the topic they are talking about, which means I want to learn about that topic, which means that an author who's being interviewed about that topic is somebody I am ripe to find out about and become a fan of.

So the best way to show up, once you get booked is be a great guest: match the host's energy, when it's over, share the episode and tag the host. I've had guests do incredible things. I've received handwritten notes, I've received gifts, and you don't need to do any of that.

But do keep in mind that most podcasters are not being paid and are introducing you to their audience. So show respect for that. And finally, and I touched on this a little bit earlier, but don't worry about the number of listeners, Robert Greene said, he'll go on a podcast that has 5000 listeners. Because if you take those people who have 5000 listeners and you do 20 of them, and you do them, well, that's gonna spread books, unlike a lot of things.

Now, why do you read a book? Okay, I'm talking to myself. So I'm going to ask the question and answer the question. And the answer to the question is we read books because somebody we trust told us to, a friend recommended it, or a publication we read recommended...having the author on a podcast is the podcast host recommending it.

The reason a small show can make a move the needle more than a bigger show for the author is that massive shows grow because it's like cult of personality. The listeners can block out the guests, they might learn something, but they're not going to follow the guest. And Alex Sanfilippo said, "I've been on a few different million plus downloads shows and they've done less for me than some shows with under 100 listeners."

 

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Make Sure You're Writing the Right Book with Nicole Kalil

 

Nicole Kalil is someone who practices what she preaches.

A fugitive of the C-suite at a Fortune 100 company, she has coached hundreds of women in business and speaks around the world.

When she was gearing up to her launch her book, Validation is for Parking, she heavily invested in social media (to the tune of $9,000 a month!) She also set out to write a book debunking some of the advice doled out by male entrepreneurs. But she realized two things: one, social media didn't make her feel good. And two: she didn't want to write the book she had already started working on.

In this conversation, she talked about how she switched courses for her book topic, why she left social media when she was "at the top," how she handles the "head trash" that creeps up when you're writing and launching a book and how her book has impacted her speaking career, among many other topics.

RELATED EPISODES:  

How Authors Can Get Booked to Speak with Topher Morrison

How to Make Your Book Into a TEDx Talk with Bridget Sampson

TRANSCRIPT:

 Anna: Well, so now that we've established that we can curse, let's establish Nicole, you were so brilliant at social media. Why did you leave?

Nicole: Oh, my gosh, well, first, thank you for saying that it was brilliant, because behind the scenes, it felt like a hot mess. Um, the reasons for being on social media were really to promote the book and increase engagement. And I was, I always had this thing that I hated social media, but I thought most of why I hated it was because I wasn't good at it. Because I wasn't getting success, because I was doing all this work for like, you know, 55 likes or something like that. And so, the focused effort on increasing both the following and the book promotion, but also the engagement on social media was mostly because I wanted to test out this theory. Like is it just because I'm not good at it? Like will I love it when I start getting results? Also, I didn't want to have there be any regrets, like, I didn't want to get on the other side of my book launch and be like, oh, I wish I would have invested. I wish I would have given this everything that I got. So that's why I did it. Ultimately, why I got off of social media is because I do in fact, hate social media. I, I've tested it out, I've had success, and obviously all success is relative, you know, I don't have millions of followers. But I went from, like 3000 followers to like 40,000 followers, and that felt massive over a six-month period. And, as you already know, before we hit record, as you already said, you know, my engagement was really high. And people were commenting and liking and, and at the end of the day, I was headed in the right direction. I think my trajectory was where I wanted it to be. And I still hated it. And I still felt exhausted, and I still found myself falling into the comparison trap. And I still feel for me, the confidence doesn't live on social media. And having just written a book about confidence, especially for women, it felt inauthentic and out of integrity for me to keep being on it. So mostly a personal decision, I am by no means saying that this was a smart tactical business decision. It just, you know, I had to listen to that inner voice. And I knew, even with the success that I was having, that I wasn't enjoying it anymore. And, and that was the surest sign I could get. It's just not the right place for me.

Anna: So was it like, in my life, this would be compared to like, someone's going to rehab January 1. Were you like, okay, I'm gonna do it through the end of the year and then I'm going cold turkey? Is that how you did it?

Nicole: (Laughs) Yeah, kind of. Well, so I had hired a team. And I was paying them just under $9,000 a month. So this was no small investment on my part, and then the time part of it even. And so yeah, there was a lot of communication happening with them in the 60 days prior to the decision. And then, you know, there was about a month from when I made the decision to like, kind of tapering it off and, and tying up all the loose ends. And I had this thing, like if I start feeling like I regret it, or if I start like that, then I'll pay attention to that, but never want. So yeah, it was pretty cold turkey. I mean, I still post funny memes and stories, because they make me laugh. And, you know, I go on here or there. But yeah, it's kind of been…

Anna: Whoa, let me just have a delayed reaction to $9,000 a month.

Nicole: (Laughs) I know, isn't that nuts?

Anna: That’s insane!
Nicole: I know.

Anna: So okay. But it was it, was, how long were you doing that for?

Nicole: Seven months.

Anna: Seven months? And, and it was all because LinkedIn and Instagram were like, really your main one, yes?

Nicole: Yeah. I don't I don't actually think I'm on any other platform. If I am, it was a long time ago. And it's, you know, but um, yeah, it was just those two, the priority being LinkedIn. And Instagram was a little bit more of a plan B.

Anna: And did it quote unquote, work? Did it result in book sales? Did it get the word out in the way you wanted?

Nicole: You know, yes and no. We created a unique link that we used on social media so we could track specifically what sales were coming directly from LinkedIn or Instagram platforms. And certainly there were sales there, but they weren't by any means my biggest contributor to overall sales. Nothing replaced the word of mouth, the relationships that I build, the clients that I already have. And then equally as effective was kind of this podcast tour, being on different shows, but very specifically shows with hosts that I love and admire like you, or with, you know, that were really on brand for me. A lot of women hosts, a lot of, you know, people talking about confidence. So those were the two biggest things. I do not regret that I tested this out. I want, I want to be really clear about it. But I would love to get that 9000 a month back over seven months (laughs). And knowing what I know, today, I would have spent all my energy on, you know, those relationships, on a podcast tour, and I probably would have invested a little bit more into even paying for publications and things like that.

Anna: Well, it's interesting. I feel like you'll, you'll get this, even if the listeners will. Okay, I moved to New York, to go with me for a second 2007. And I hated it so much. I hated it, I hated it. And in 2010, when I finally decided to move back, I said to my sponsor, I realized I only did this because I thought I'd never meet a man in LA. And she said to me, if all it costs you was three years of your life and 10s of 1000s of dollars to learn to never make a decision again out of fear, I'd say you got a great deal. So if that $9,000 a month for seven months taught you you never need to spend another minute on this. Maybe you got the deal of the century.

Nicole: Oh, I feel great about it. A) the team I worked with was A+, like I learned so much from them and it did…

Anna: I would hope so!

Nicole: (Laughs) Right, right? It did work for all intents and purposes. But mostly because I now know without a shadow of a doubt, this isn't ah, you know how sometimes you want to achieve something, you want to accomplish something and then discomfort or fear or doubt gets in the way? None of that is what's going on here. I'm not not on social media, because it's uncomfortable for me here, because I'm not willing to risk or make the investment. I'm not on social media, because I tested it out to the fullest of my ability. And now I know (laughs) without a shadow of a doubt that I don't need to, need to waste, as you said, any more time or any more energy in that space. And I felt great about it.

Anna: So that's an interesting question. How can you tell if you're, you're resisting something because it makes you uncomfortable and challenges you or you really just don't like it and it's not for you? How can you tell the difference?

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, I think that's unique to each person. But if I am coming from a place of worrying how it's going to look to other people, or fear about whether or not it's going to work or not, or if I'm you know, going to fail. Or that those are usually the things where I'm up to something big, but my, what I call my head trash, that voice that's inside of our minds, that says things to us about us that are never kind, very rarely true. It's the difference between the voice that's being a bully, versus the voice that's coming from a place of love and kindness and, and knowing and listen, you know, distinguishing between the two and knowing which one to listen to. I, I just knew it was draining me. It was exhausting me. This wasn't fear, or doubt, or fear of failure or, you know, concern about what other people thought. This was everything in my being resisting it. I mean, I didn't even like go on and look at my own stuff other than what I needed to do, you know, to meet the commitments to my team. I don't know, I just knew. I think we know.

Anna: Yeah. I don't know, my, my head trash and my fear can get, they can get mixed up and confuse me and it really can be hard to tell the difference between something. It's kind of like that thing. Sorry but, frog in my throat. That thing, when you can't tell if the universe is saying don't do this, or the universe is saying you just need to try harder and you're gonna have that amazing story in 10 years about how you never gave up. You know what I mean?

Nicole: Yeah, yes. So I should rephrase what I said. I think you know when you know (laughs). Not that you just know. Because the reality is if I knew, I would have never invested $9000 a month into something like this. I would have never tested this theory out. I would have never doubled down. I think that was, it was because I did that, because I wasn't totally sure. Do I authentically hate this? Is this just not a place confidence lose for me? Is this not where I want to be spending my time or am I not good at it? Or is this where I just need to double down? Is this you know, you get in what you put out or, you know, success is on the other side of your comfort zone? All the things that we hear that are, in fact, true. But I just needed to figure out how to test it out so that I could distinguish the difference so that I would know when I know. Does that make sense?
Anna: Yeah.

Nicole: And at some point, I just know. Like it was just blatantly obvious to me.

Anna: So let's talk about that. When it comes to launching a book. I have almost never worked with someone who hasn't said I, either I don't know why, my story is not interesting. Who am I to think I should publish a book? All of the, the head trash that comes up around that. I would love any advice you have around that.

Nicole: Yeah, I um, so in my book, it's a book about confidence. And I talk about these confidence derailers. These are the things that chip away at our head trash. One of those things is overthinking. And I think that's like the cousin to head trash. It's the negative thoughts. But then it's the over thinking that happens. And we get stuck in the what ifs. And, you know, should I this or should I that or does this and like, all of those things, and perfectionism. All those things were playing a part in my journey. But ultimately, the biggest confidence builder is action. Action builds confidence. And I think a lot of times we think there needs to be, you know, big risk, huge step, you know, bold moves. And it's really one foot in front of the other towards what matters. I knew I wanted to write a book, I had all the head trash about whether or not I could or whether or not anybody would read it, or whether or not it'd be good, or whether or not I get five-star, one-star reviews or no reviews. I had all that stuff. But at the end of the day, I knew I wanted to. And so it was just one foot in front of the other. It was one conversation with an author. It was writing one outline. It was thinking about. and just always being in action towards what mattered to me is the only reason that there is a book. And a loving reminder that we get to decide what we say to ourselves. Our head trash is not something that we have zero control over. And so really practicing the exercises of reframing my own thoughts. Choosing something more productive, more empowered, and also acknowledging I'm making it all up anyway. You know? It's, it's all happening up in my mind. So as long as I'm in action, and as long as I'm doing the work to shift my thoughts. That's how we create just about anything that's scary and risky and worth doing.

Anna: Yeah, but old therapists used to say we're making it up. So why not make up good stories, right?

Nicole: Yes. Yeah.

Anna: So let's walk through. So, so how long ago did you, let's talk about your process of doing the book. How long ago did you decide you wanted to do it? And what was your, what were your steps that you took?

Nicole: Sure. So I decided I want a book, like when I, write a book when I was in my teens, so lots of overthinking lots of excuses, lots of reasons, lots of head trash. But I didn't really get serious about it until two years before the release of the book. I had spent about six months navigating the, talking to different authors, asking questions, researching, understanding the different options of publishing You helped me with that quite a bit too. You know, do I want to self-publish? Do I want to go traditional? Is there a hybrid? How does one even write a book and so it was a lot of, that is, prep action work? Not a lot of thinking but like a lot of talking and researching and learning, deciding. Then I hired a writing, writing partner. For me, I knew I needed that accountability. I needed somebody who, I needed to get pages to by certain dates. I needed somebody who knew how to create an outline of a book, and who, you know, could give me really good feedback. And so that accountability piece was really important to me. I will tell you, I, without that I would have never actually got to writing. I'll also share I started writing a completely different book than I ended up releasing.

Anna: Tell me more.

Nicole: I had, so I was going to write a book debunking some of the more masculine business theories or approaches. And, and by the way, I'm not, I advocate for women not at the expense of men. But the reality is, when I started writing the book, is 92% of business books were being written by men. So as women or really as people in the workforce, we're learning mostly about what it is to be professional, what it is to be successful, what it is to be confident from that masculine perspective. And so my initial thought was to debunk some of the more popular grit, grind, hard work, morning routine theories, and sort of balance those out a little bit. I realized it was gonna take a lot of frickin’ work to do that because I had to do a lot of research. These were ideas, but I didn't, you know, hadn't formulated all of the thoughts or the chapters. And um, my writing partner at one point was like, why aren’t you writing a book about confidence? This is what you speak about. This is what your podcast, like this is what you do. And I was like, I don't know why I'm not writing that book. Maybe the other idea is a second or a third book. But the book about confidence, frankly, half the book was already written because I do go across the country and speak on this topic. I've been learning and reading and researching and speaking about this for years. And so I had to, you know, check in with myself about is this first book, Is it easier, simpler to go with what I already know?

Anna: So how far into it were you?

Nicole: About three months.

Anna: About three months?

Nicole: We were, we had like outline and all that.

Anna: So when you say writing partner was this, how did you find this person? And was it a coach? Were you trading pages back and forth? What was the process?

Nicole: Yeah, so a friend connected me to a publisher who connected me to the writing partner. And I hired her and she was phenomenal. Her name is Peggy. And Peggy has written, I think she's ghost written several books? And she writes her own books and everything in between. I was very clear. I didn't want a ghost writer. My voice and the way I say things is so important to me. And I knew, you know, nobody's going to say things the way I say things other than me. That's, I mean, that's true for all of us. And so we did calls like every other week where she would ask me a bunch of questions. And then she would record everything I said, and then she would type out what she heard. And then I'd go in and add, delete, add some color to, you know, create the story, blah, blah, blah, then get it to her. She'd make her edits, and then we'd talk about it our next call, and then so forth and so on. I skipped the part too where we spent months figuring, well, months because we ended up changing the book in there. But on the outline and the purpose and what was the goal and all that…

Anna: I will clarify, a great ghost writer is going to sound just like you. I think that is people's fear is they say I don't want a ghost writer because it's not going to sound like me. Most, most authors came up as magazine writers at least ones in my generation where one day they were writing for Cosmo, the next for the New York Times, the next year Playboy, and it's all voice. And so a good writer can do your voice and I really look at a ghost writer as a sort of documentarian, who's, who's a tape recorder that's just making it all sound exquisite.

Nicole: I also would add, though, you, I'm assuming you pay a pretty hefty premium, at least when I looked into it, the ghost riders who I think were, you know, writing books of other or well-known people, it was in the six-figure mark.

Anna: Yeah.

Nicole: And I was like, I mean, I've already invested, I invested a ton into the creation of this book, and I only had one business goal. And trust me, it was not profitability from book sales.

Anna: Amen. Yeah, we know you're not afraid to invest, because we've already busted out with the social media. So okay, and so how smart, so many people, hi, actually get the, get the idea this is not the book I'm supposed to do but go ahead anyway. Because it's that like, what's that thing where you've already invested like, you don't want to throw good money after bad? You know, you keep, so, so you double down more. So how smart that you saw that and listened to that voice, and did it different and went a different way.

Nicole: So funny story. A quote actually came up when I was thinking about it, and I just, it will stick with me forever. Don't keep making a mistake just because you already spent a long time making it? Something along those lines. And then I was like, oh, yeah, that’s what I needed to hear right then. And yeah, it felt like a scary shift.

Anna: Yeah, I mean, it's not unlike what we were talking about before, which is how do you know when it's fear and how do you know when you need to listen? And um, and I think oh, the sunk money fallacy or whatever the, I don't know, I'm getting that thing wrong. So, so you guys, you shift directions and how long did it take you to do the book once you got going in the right direction?

Nicole: Um, from that point to locking the book was about eight or nine months.

Anna: Um, and then, and then did you, did you work with a hybrid publisher? Did you work, I don't actually know.

Nicole: Yes, I did work with a hybrid publisher. Yeah.

Anna: Because, because getting the idea, from getting the idea to two years is relatively fast, I would say.

Nicole: Well, and I think again, this shift to writing a book about confidence where, I mean, I already had half the book technically written it in my mind, in my, in my work. So that half the book was really, really easy. Chapters two through four (laughs), we went, you know, all around on, but chapters six through 10? That was easy peasy. And speed was a priority for me, not at the sacrifice of quality. But my speaker’s agency had said, in no uncertain terms, they're like, you need to write a book. It doesn't even need to be a good book, which was like a knife to the heart (laughs), for an avid reader like me. But they're like, you need to get a book out there and so speed was a little bit important. Two years felt long.

Anna: You are not, yeah but you are definitely not someone who would sacrifice quality. I really will say this, this is not like, I just, quality like oozes from you. And even just when I was on your podcast and you sent me a copy of your book, it was just so, you're just a class act. You do it, you cross every T and dot every I. It's very obvious.

Nicole: Thank you. Oh, that's so kind. That means a lot.

Anna: It’s true. I don't blow smoke. Now, now, so…

Nicole: One of the many reasons I love you (laughs). Not a big fan of… well, anyway, sorry.

Anna: So, so, I’m not, let's, we're fellow non smoke blowing fans. Now, now, okay, so your goal was not book sales thank the Lord. What was your business goal?

Nicole: So my business goal is to see an increase of speaking engagements and an increase of revenue from that particular, I guess, arm of my business. For me, the book is a calling card for, it's a business card for speaking engagements. I know if, you know, you're looking at two potential speakers, and they're all things being equal, you're always gonna choose the one with the book. I also felt like, you know, sometimes when people are looking to book speakers, that there is, is this person the right fit? Do they have the right voice? This is, it was really important to me that this is like, this is who I am and this is what you'll get. Um, so that was the one business goal. And thank God, I didn't think I was gonna make money from books (laughs) because it’s sort of depressing on that side.

Anna: Very, I, you're talking to someone who's never checked her book sales. Because I don't, I don't like to be depressed. I'd rather be happy. But what impact has it had on your speaking career?

Nicole: Yeah so, a lot of good things. I mean, completely new clients I've never worked with before. And it's hard sometimes to make the connection, right. I know, in every case, the book played a role. But I can think of one, which was a big one, I got to speak at Sales, Sales Force at the end of, the last year. And that was 100% via connection from the book. So that that was exciting.

Anna: How do you know that?

Nicole: The woman who booked me told me (laughs).

Anna: Okay, so you have the book, your speaking agent says, so how do you start using the book as a tool to get speaking engagements?

Nicole: Yeah, and I, I have not totally cracked this code yet. So if anybody has any ideas, reach out to me. But I think um, first, the social media team actually helped me with this a little bit. They were very purposeful, of connecting me to people who, you know, are event coordinators or HR, or you know, that run the logistics of like the Massachusetts conference for women or blah, blah, blah. So that rather than just randomly connecting me or, or trying to get any follower under the sun, they were strategic and purposeful about, you know, who, and then also in my messaging, we focus a lot more on me as a speaker. Or my content and a lot less on book sales or, you know, that type of thing. So they were smart there and they helped me build connections. I often send my books with little handwritten notes to people, there are lots of speaking engagements that I know about, that may already be booked, or, you know, I've just heard about them. I'll shoot my book off in the mail. You know. I am mindful of the people I know and where they work. And um, always try to be conscious of making that connection, sending them extra books, so they can pass them around, that, that type of thing. Follow through is really important. A lot of my speaking engagements come from relationships, or conversations from three years ago, and I just, when I say I'm going to do something, I do it. And I think sometimes it's a matter of timing, and it's just a matter of like, oh, this woman isn't going away (laughs). She's gonna keep reaching out. Those are just a few thoughts that jump into my head. But it's a work in progress.

Anna: If somebody listening wants to use their book in order to get speaking gigs, what would you recommend? Should they look up HR contacts at big companies? Follow these people on social media? What would you recommend?

Nicole: Yes, so I did a little bit in reverse, I built kind of the speaking side of my business and then wrote a book. And so, I will tell you probably the, the things that have had the greatest impact on building the speaking side of my business was, you know, I basically made it a point to have 10 different connection calls every single month. And so I started with the people I knew who I worked with in the past, or relationships, or previous clients, and I reached out and just said, you know, hey, I'm looking to build the speaking side of my business. And I didn't, you know, reach out to book something right there. I wasn't, I did some free things here or there. But mostly, it was just everything in my world has worked via word of mouth, and relationships and referrals. And I believe that people want to help. Not everybody will help or help in the way that you want them to. But the more people who knew what I was up to, the better it was going to be for the long-term growth of my business. And so I just did that. And, you know, when you do a good job, then you ask for an endorsement and ask if they know anybody at any other companies who, you know, do the work that they do. And it just sort of spiraled from there. Now, I also want to be clear, you know, there are people who speak on 100, 100 stages a year, that was never, that's not my goal. And that is also not my experience. I don't want to be traveling, I don't want to advocate for confidence, or for women at the expense of my daughter. That seems counterproductive. And so I do do quite a bit of virtual work, but I try to only be on the road at most, twice a month. And some months, it's six times and then some months it’s zero times, but it sort of averages out to like 25 stages a year. So you know, I don't, that's not big time but it works for me.

Anna: It’s perfect, I think. And did it, did the book raise your, allow you to raise your fees?

Nicole: I did raise my fees in conjunction with the book. But my fees up, my fees are always negotiable in my mind. So I have gotten one booking at my rate. But I got to negotiate down on other ones from a higher rate. So like I negotiated down to the rate I was asking for before, if that makes any sense.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. So and, so your, people ask me all the time, they say, can you connect me to a speaking agent? They actually want to, they think they can sort of hire an agent. And I'm like, agents are taking commission. So how does somebody get a speaking agent?

Nicole: Yeah, I have four. Yeah, four speaking agents. And I will tell you, each of them are good to book me on maybe one or two things a year. No disrespect to anybody in the speaker's agencies, but my experience is kind of like publishing. It's if you're Brené Brown, or Michelle Obama or Glennon Doyle, it's like, yeah, they're going to turn themselves inside out and it's going to, they're going to do all the work for you. But for the people like me with not a huge amount of name recognition, or you know, where people aren't calling the speaker's agencies going, hey, I want to book Nicole. Um, you know, I typically get pitched when somebody can't afford like a Mel Robbins. That's uh, you know, so oh, you don't have Mel Robbins budget? I've got somebody for you. Right? So they maybe get me one or two a year each. The vast majority of the speaking engagements I book, I book via word of mouth, via connection, or people reaching out directly to me after hearing something or other or reading the book or, or something like that. So all of that to say, I mean, unless you find somebody totally different than my experience, I don't think the answer is finding a speaker's agent. And yes, you do give at least 20% of any booking to them, which is, maybe they might be able to get you bigger fees sometimes. But that hasn’t always been my experience either. I don't know.

Anna: It's kind of like how the people who most don't need the free things, like the Kardashians, are given the free things. The people who most don't need the agents have agents work so hard for them. So…

Nicole: That’s exactly right.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. This is fascinating though. So, so any, we'll get, we'll start wrapping up. I mean, we did so many fun little topics, but what would your advice be for somebody who is maybe in the midst of a book wants a speaking career? What would you tell them?

Nicole: Yeah, I'm gonna circle back to our earlier conversation about social media is, well, first and foremost, ask yourself and be honest with yourself, what is the experience you're looking for? What's most important to you? So you know, if the most important thing for you is book sales, then you know, I don't know if social media is the number one biggest place to invest? Certainly don't do $9,000 a month, you know. Learn from my mistake on that. Or if, you know from, what is your goal with speaking, is it to impact as many people or is it to make the most efficient and productive amount of dollars? Is it to sell something? What is it that you're looking for in all aspects? And then talk to the people who are doing it, who, not the, I mean, if you can get to the big name people, that's great. But in my experience, their advice is so far removed from what it takes from somebody like us to do and it's like, find the person who's a year ahead of you. So find the person who's a couple $100,000 ahead of you. Find the person who is a couple books ahead of you and ask their advice. That's where I've always gotten the best, most real, most effective, most relevant advice. And then take all that advice and go, what most directly connects to the experience that I'm looking for, the outcome, or what really matters, why I'm really doing this, and then start testing those things out. And I think test is a really important word. Have an idea of how much for how long? With what boundaries, you're willing to test that thing out. So you don't keep making a mistake, just because you've already spent a long time or a lot of money making it.

Anna: I love it. I love it. So if people want to find out more about you, get the book, where should they go?

Nicole: Yeah, so my website's the best place for all things at NicoleKalil.com. The book is Validation is for Parking. You can find it really anywhere. And yeah, that's the best place, best place to find me. You can go to social media, but you won't see me much there (laughs).

Anna: I know. But you'll see some amazing posts from last year.

Nicole: (Laughs) That's right.

Anna: And it, well Nicole, thank you so much. This was amazing. And thanks to…

Nicole: Oh my gosh. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

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Using Affiliates to Launch a Book with Matt McWilliams

 

Matt McWilliams is the go-to affiliate guy, which means he's very good at helping people—including Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi, Shark Tank's Kevin Harrington and Lewis Howes—get their networks on board to help them sell their products.

Now he's launched his first book, and he employed those same strategies to drive pre-sales. While his efforts didn't land him on any bestseller lists, they did help him add numerous people to his newsletter list and sell a bunch of other products.

He has numerous tips for those who want to find the right people to help them launch books, including studying how marketing-savvy authors do book launches, using Amazon for all its worth and remembering that no response just means reach out again.

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Why All Authors Need to Start Their Newsletter List NOW with Holly Darling

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TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Morning. Well, Matt, congratulations on your book launch.

Matt: Thanks.

Anna: Let's talk about how, you know, you're the affiliate guy. How did you use affiliates and your knowledge about that in this book launch?

Matt: Yeah, I mean, that was everything. I mean, affiliates were probably 90, 95% of total sales from the book, at least in terms of pre-orders through kind of the first week sales. You know, that was, that was our strategy. So we knew early and often, so to speak, we did not have the firepower to, you know, to hit the list or, or, you know, really do anything special without our partners. And so that became a, we'll talk more about the specific strategies, that became a huge part of it. We knew going into it and even like working with a publisher in advance, you know, when, when we did the book proposal, it was like, yeah, you know, here's the strategy. It's the strategy we've used for Lewis Howes before him, his first book kind of launched him as, as a somebody, you know…

Anna: Yeah.

Matt: We had over 1000 affiliates. You know, I mean, 95% of sales were from affiliates. And he was a number two New York Times bestseller. Ah, even Brian Tracy, who'd already sold, you know, millions of books, we still tapped into affiliates. And while he sold, you know, 40 or 50,000 of his speaking book on his own, we also sold 52,000 through affiliates. You know, and so…

Anna: Do you know your book sales?

Matt: I do. Yeah, well, at least as of February 1. I don't know now. I don't, I don't, I don't even look at them anymore, because quite frankly, I know, they're not enough to hit the list, you know, week in and week out. So, I gotta be honest, I don't care. I really don’t. Another data point that I don't need,

Anna: Yeah. Listeners, to this point, anyone listening to this podcast knows that I constantly say don't check your book sales, just since you were citing book sales, I thought, oh, maybe this is one of the first guests who's going to actually talk numbers. You know, the my, you know, I don't know how much you know about me, but you know, I did six books with HarperCollins. One of them did, my Simon and Schuster book did hit the New York Times list.

Matt: Nice.

Anna: And now what I do is I help entrepreneurs publish books, and a lot of them hit Wall Street Journal and USA Today. But, as I constantly preach, it is not about book sales. It is about who reads your book. I'd rather have 100 people read my clients’ books, and have those 100 people's lives change than 10,000 who aren't going to care. Let alone 50,000!

 

Matt: Yeah, yeah, we wanted both. I mean, you know, there was a, I would say, there was a, you know, a strategic, a strategic element to us hitting the list that was important for us from a business perspective. So that certainly played a role in it. So what we did, just to give you some perspective, we actually looked at two years’ worth of the NPD data. Whatever NPD stands for, I forget. Our publisher sends us the data, I don’t even know, national publisher distributors, or something like that, I don’t know. And so we looked at two years’ worth of data. And basically what we said was, okay, our goal is to, to take the number that it takes to get to the list if we had launched in the worst possible week in the past 104 weeks. You know, in other words, what was the, what was number 10 in the, like, if we launched in the worst week, you know, the highest number that it took to hit that. And then we, of course, had a lower number. Okay, what was the average, you know, that hit the list. And then we had a few other, you know, metrics that we were looking at. And so we had that number, that was our goal all along.

Anna: Yeah.

Matt: Now, we ended up screwing something up. And now I'll just come out and say what we messed up, and it'll be a lesson for everybody. So my book launched on January 10th of 2023. On January 4th, I was in an email thread with our publisher, and, you know, she sent the early numbers. And I'm like, that doesn't look anywhere close to our numbers. You know, cause we're, we’re tracking things on our end. And I’ll walk, I'll talk you about how we're able to track them on our end and a little bit, but I'm like, that looks nowhere close to our number. And I'm like, ah what? I think I just responded with like, what question mark, question mark, question mark. That is not the number we're getting. What are, what are, you know, where's the disconnect here? And she's like, well, just a reminder, that's only hardcover sales. And I was like, okay, cool. Is there any reason why you're only reporting to me hardcover sales, and she's like, well, that's, the hardcover book sales are the only ones that count toward the list. I went, you know, I never knew that. And it was one of those things, you know Anna, where everybody assumed I knew that because we'd run seven big book launches before. We had, we had, we’ve actually run 12 book launches, had seven best sellers with our clients. Everybody assumed I knew that it was only the hardcover books that counted. It was not the audio books, and the other versions didn't count toward the list and I, I just had this sinking feeling cause we were ahead of our goal. And I mean, it was like the, your puppy just died feeling, like, oh, dear God, you know, I’m, this whole thing is just crumbling down around me. Because, and everybody said the same thing, we are so sorry, we just assumed you knew, you know, cause you had…

Anna: Well, you didn’t, but I'm sure you know this. There's separate New York Times lists for audio books, for ebooks, so, so why was your publisher not interested in those lists?

Matt: Ah, because, I mean, for Wall Street Journal, we were interested in really condensing all the sales into one format, because there, we could, we, we just didn't, again, we didn't have the firepower to hit, you know, the oddity like, we're not, I'm not Michelle Obama. Newsflash, right. You know, I'm not, a ah there's a unicorn, James Clear. You know, he's been number one for like, 108 weeks in a row. Those are the types of things that just, you know, sometimes you can't even explain somebody like James. You know, the book took off, it resonated with some people, it's in Costco and Sam's Club and, and you know, those things happen. We’d been, that was not going to happen with us. And we didn't have the, the early you know, we're not Prince Harry, right. I'm not related to anybody royal, although I am distantly related to the Archduke of Serbia, just as a fun fact there. So we didn't have that going for us. We had this was a very guerilla campaign. The only way we're going to do it was just hustle and, and, and hard work. And so we wanted to put it all of our efforts into one, well, I just didn't know.

 

Anna: Yeah.

Matt: And again, everybody assumed that I did, because I'd run those book launches. We've been on just the affiliate side. And so when we came in, it was one of those things I went back and looked. And sure enough, every one of those book launches that we had run, they were only hardcovers. But I never paid attention to that. I never asked the question, why are we only still in the hardcover? It was like, I was so focused on my lane. So it almost cost us. It ended up being one of those things where it made our jobs very, very difficult when it could have been really, really easy. Because most of those people who purchased the audio book and the other formats, they would have got the hardcover because of the bonuses that we offered for, for the pre-order, which we can talk about. So, yeah. I learned a lesson though. I learned the hard way.

Anna: And I noticed, you didn't emphasize reviews. A lot of people emphasize I want to get, you know, hundreds of reviews, that wasn't a focus for you.

Matt: We did. After the fact, you know, after, you know, once the book had launched, we did turn our attention to getting reviews. We did a pretty good job. Like we had a couple of strategies that worked really well with that. One was from a friend of mine, Kyle Jung, you know, he's like, get them to say something nice about the book when you're in a live event. So one of our bonuses was a live event, virtual event, you know. It was a half day event you could come to. We’d work through the exercises from the book, answered questions, shared some material, like some deleted material that wasn't in the book, you know, hey, a lot of you have asked about this. And actually, I had an entire 2000-word section that we had to cut, you know, out of 35,000 words from the book, you know, so here's some of that. And it allowed us, in there I was like, now, hey, guys, what do you think about the book? Tell me something good about the book. And, you know, 25 people were like, about what? And I said, hey, do me a quick favor. Here's the link, go there, you know, copy and paste what you just wrote here and leave it there. And so that…

Anna: If I could offer any advice, you know, so, so we as listeners know, always aim for over 100 reviews with the launch, because social proof makes such a difference in terms of more book sales on Amazon and 98% of sales are coming from Amazon. So, and I, and I've done a number of episodes on that. So, so the affiliate, so you focused only on pre-launch for your affiliates? And walk listeners through if they wanted to do affiliates. We've had Amber Vilhauer. I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she talks a lot about…

Matt: Amber’s the reason why this book actually did, did what it did. I’ll tell a story about her in a second. Yeah.

Anna: How does your process differ from hers?

Matt: I don't know. I don't know her process. She's actually the, the, I can tell you what we did. It's probably pretty similar. Amber and I just happen to have a casual conversation about two years ago. And I was telling her about the book. And you know, my goals for, my goals at that time were like, I just want to have a book and I don't really care. It's like, it's like a big business card. You know, that kind of thing. She was like, I was getting ready to sign with a really small publisher. And she was like, don't sign, don't sign. Why not? She's like, just don't do it. She's like, I need you to talk to my friend Kevin. She introduced me to an agent. She was like Matt, this book can be, this book can be so much bigger, please just don't sign the contract yet. She's like, just talk to Kevin first. And she's the one that sold me on the fact that this thing could be a, you know, a best seller. That it could be, we could get a major publisher and then it can be so much bigger than, than what I had in mind. So just yeah, a fun story about Amber there. She's, you know, I thank her in the book because she's the one who kind of believed in the book more than I did. In the early, early phases, and she's the reason why I ended up getting my dream publisher. You know, if you look at my bookshelf, about a quarter of the books are published by BenBella, you know, and that's who we ended up working with. So that was all Amber. You know, like, none of that would’ve happened. I would, I wouldn't even have cared about really doing a big book launch, it was it was more of a, for just the, again, the having the business card, you know, the big business card that you can give away at conferences and stuff like that. So, but I can walk you through just, you know, kind of what we've, this is what we've done for clients, this is what we did for this one, you know. It started, we already have an existing affiliate program. A lot of people don't, but so we did have some affiliates to pull from. I'm not going to focus too much on that, because I'm going to assume that somebody doesn't have that, you know. This listing, if you've already got affiliates, well duh, reach out to them first. Get them to sign up to promote the book. Then what we do is, we do, we call it the Amazon rabbit trail. So Amazon makes our job really easy. If you go and find one book, just pick one book, that is, you think compares to your book that came out in the past 18 months to two years. Amazon will then tell you all of the other books to look at, of course, and you keep going down the rabbit trails. So what we do is we thought one book that was similar to ours that had come out in the past couple of years. And we went and we found everybody that had promoted that book. So let's just say 32 people, you know, everybody that had promoted that book. And we reached out to them, whether it was a podcast interview, and I did over 165 podcast interviews now, for the book. Whether it was a podcast interview, a blog review, they promoted it on social media, they did a YouTube video for whatever, like, didn't matter. If they promoted that book, we wanted to reach out to them. Well, then Amazon says people who bought this book also bought this book. So we then went and clicked on seven of those that, and maybe four of them had come out in the past two years. The reason why that two-year frame is important is if a book came out six years ago, and somebody promoted it, they might not even be in business anymore. They might have sold it. They might be in a different niche. So that two-year window is a good balance between not being too strict and being just strict enough that there's a likelihood they're still doing the same thing with a roughly same size audience, and they're going to want to promote this book.

Anna: Right.

Matt: And so then we used a, a product, a service called Listen Notes. I'm sure most people have heard of it. That gave us like, we found a podcast and it said, you know, so and so interviewed this author a year and a half ago. We could use Listen Notes to see when was their last episode and where does their podcast rank. Those two things are important because number one, when, when was their last episode, well it was a month ago means they're not doing their podcasts anymore. We're gonna need to, don't even bother reaching out to them. You know, it's, it's old, it's gone stale. And where does their podcast rank kind of tells us where the priority is. If it's point 1% of all podcasts, like high priority, let's get on that one. Top 5% and it might not even be worth our time, you know. They're probably going to, probably have 200 listeners per episode. But we did use the strategy early on. I made sure to get on about five, seven, kind of smaller podcasts about four months out. And they released during the launch season. But we did about, I think we did, like seven actually that were, and I did them about every three days. So I could think in between. And that allowed me to kind of craft the narratives and think through, okay, what's the messaging? What are the stories I'm telling over and over again, from the book? What are the questions I'm getting asked? There were a couple questions where people were like, hey, in step nine, you share this acronym and I'm going oh, crap, I forget what's the A stand for? You know, so I was like, let me add that to my notes to make sure I put that in the, you know, in my notes for. So if somebody asks me what is, I went in, memorize the acronyms, so I didn't forget them and stuff like that. So we did that. And so we would go down that Amazon rabbit trail, and we ended up reaching out to over 6000 people who’d promoted a similar book in the past two years. We ended up getting about 450 of them to promote this book. Whether it be again, podcast, interview, video interview, email campaigns, blog post, those became the core of, of the marketing for the book.

Anna: Well, your team was extremely aggressive about getting you on this. So I know how determined they are.

Matt: Cool (laughs).

Anna: How does somebody listening, if they went and they looked at a competitor's book or a book that inspired them and wanted to do that same thing. What was your method for finding the contact information? Figuring out who promoted this book?

Matt: Yeah, so starting out with who promoted it. We used Google, that says, if you can believe it. We would narrow the search results. You can guess, you can tell Google, show me the search results. And we specifically wanted things that were published in the two months before the book launch. So we, you know, it shows you when the book launched on Amazon, like this book came out September 13, 2021. So we, we go back to August, probably August, in that case, we go back to about August 1st to maybe August 15th. We didn't want people who were talking about the book four months later, like, oh, I read this book, it was amazing. And it was just kind of a generic thing. We specifically wanted people who promoted the book launch.

Anna: Yeah, got it.

Matt: So if you were talking about the book before it came out, or really, really, ideally, it was like September 10th or, I’m sorry, is like September 5th through 23rd was like the real range that we really wanted to hone in on that example. Because these are people who are promoting the pre-launch through like the very early phases, not just, you know, a generic mention of the book. So that's specifically, we honed it into that frame. And we go to Google, okay who's promoting it, what podcast episodes came out during that period of time, who interviewed them? As far as contact information, Listen Notes was a source for podcasts. That'll give you contact information. There are a couple other services we used. I mean, the team used, I don't even remember some of them now. Clearbit Connect is one of them. It's a Gmail plug-in, where you can kind of get some stuff there. RocketReach.co, I think There’s a rocket, there's a RocketReach.io and a RocketReach.co. It's the one that finds emails, not the one that does something else. So I think it's dot co. That one was a big one. And because that one will give us their personal email address. So yeah, so that's how we found the emails.

Anna: And so, and then, then you asked friends to send newsletters. I'm assuming newsletters was a big part of it, not just podcasts?

Matt: Yeah, we had well into the, I mean, between the affiliates that we picked up and the, you know, I mean, this is a cool thing, like 70% of our sales came from people that I did not know prior to the book launch. That's the thing about a book. And I know your audience knows that Anna. It opens doors that, hey, here's my webinar, here's my course, or here's my other product, they just don't open, you know. And so, and I think that's just part of, I think it's, I was telling somebody the other day, I think it's part of our DNA, because we're brought up with books, you know, you're not taking your three-year-old to a webinar. You're not, you're not, you know, you're not having your, your three-year-old listen to a podcast episode before bedtime, right? What do you do? You read a book. So I think after, well, however, long books have been around, what 500 years now that, since the Gutenberg invented the printing press? It’s in our DNA. So there's something special about it. And so it opens those doors. And because of that, you know, I'd say about 70%, 65-70% of all sales came from people that prior to the book launch, I didn't know who the heck they were and they didn't know who the heck I was. That's the cool thing about what I'm sharing, is it worked. Like you don't have to be somebody who already had an existing affiliate program, or know a bunch of people with a bunch of friends in your niche, you know. Yeah, I had some great partners that I've had long term relationships that promoted the book and made, you know, dozens if not hundreds of sales. But so much of them came from people that, I can’t tell you how many times I showed up for the podcast, and it's like, it's the first time that we're ever speaking. And so it works.

Anna: And so, when people are listening, and they go, I don't really even know what you mean by affiliates. I'm a creative person. How do you break that down?

Matt: Very simply, it's somebody that, you know, the concept’s been around for 5000 years. It's somebody that promotes you in exchange for a financial reward. And so, from a tech standpoint, you don't have to get into all the super nerdy tech stuff. But, you know, basically, if I, you know, if you got a book Anna, and I promote it to my audience, I will have a link that tracks back to me. It sets a cookie and uses some other tracking IP address and other things that are totally just in case anybody's asking, but what about all the new anti-cookie stuff? Those are third party cookies, where you can't share data with other people. Like I can't, you can't share that I sent a click with Facebook. You know, that, that's illegal now, in most areas. This is first party data, where I'm tracking you for my own purposes, not selling it. So just to be clear on that. So we track that, and then if they buy anything, and we can talk about the funnel, because that's the, that's the ultimate ticket for the affiliates. Then it says, oh, Matt sent that and there was a $200 transaction. Let's say we agreed to a 50/50 commission. Give Matt $100. And so what we did from a, from a tax standpoint is we set up that, this is why pre-orders were so huge. We set up a pre-order campaign where there were specific pre-order bonuses. We created URLs, like, you know, the URL and they'd be like, so yours for example, as PassionsIntoProfitsBook.com forward slash Anna, you know. And so that URL, they go there, they purchased the book elsewhere. Now this was key for our objectives because we didn't want to sell the books directly, I did not want to have a warehouse full of books. I didn't even want to use Ingram or whatever, we were using Penguin Random House. So they, they dealt with all that. And we wanted a certain number of orders to go through Barnes and Noble. We know the stats about 97, 98% buy through Amazon. We wanted to get at least 5% of sales through Barnes and Noble because we wanted to get it in stores. And we did, we ended up getting it nationwide, and actually just got another order from them. So, and it's a lot, yay (laughs)! So, so we got Barnes and Noble. And part of what we did there is we had a special bonus if you purchase through Barnes and Noble. It was just a little extra, a little something, something. So you go to the URL, you go then for, to Amazon or Barnes and Noble, or Target or wherever, you know, you're buying your book. You come back, you have entered information that redeems your pre-order bonuses, and then on the back end of that are offers that are relevant to the book. And about 18% of people upgraded to some additional offer. And we paid out a 50% commission on all those sales to our affiliates. And so, you know, we had affiliates that are promoting a $25 book that earn $10,000 plus in commissions.

Anna: And when you say offers, just to be clear, so you mean courses, you mean events, you mean coaching programs?

Matt: Yep. It could be anything.

Anna: It could be anything.

Matt: Ours, ours was, we had a course. So we offered substantial discounts, so that there was some urgency there. So we had a course, we had a course. Gosh, I always forget the other one. Some sort of other training, but I can't remember what it was. And then another course and then our flagship course. And that was the funnel, you know, there were three, three steps in the funnel, essentially. And we had about 18% upgraded to something. Of  those about 25% upgraded to the next thing and of those about 25% upgraded to the next thing. And that's a, there's a lot, we actually converted a little bit higher than we expected. Our average order size on the back end was over $128. We were budgeting for 90. So it was really…

Anna: That’s great. And so do you know your totals that, you know, people think oh, it's just about the money I make from book sales. Your launch, you know, so Pat Flynn famously made $111,000, you know, from his, the free course that he had, in Will It Fly which led to the paid course, do you know that number?

Matt: We’re already over 100,000 that much I know. Pre-orders, we were at about 84, 84,500, I think somewhere in that vicinity. In terms of money that we made from, that was, sorry that's net profit, though. So total sales would have been 169,000. And just under 169,000.

Anna: It’s interesting, it’s inspiration. The biggest one I've heard of is Mike Koenig’s, which was 8.5 million (laughs).

Matt: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, book launches compared to like our product launch? I mean, we've run for, like clients, we've run dozens of seven figure launches. Product launches are completely different. Book launches, the reality…

Anna: No, I mean the biggest book launch I've heard about.

Matt: He made 8.5 million from that?

Anna: From what, yeah, it's a previous podcast episode. It’s from what the…

Matt: That’s impressive.

Anna: It’s amazing. It's amazing.

Matt: And that's like immediate, in immediate sales or like long term sales?

Anna: No. So basically, the, the book led to a course, the course led to an event, and the event led to the sale. So it was…

Matt: Okay. Yeah. Because we're not even close to the end of that. I know, just in sales from the book. We, so we, we're tracking this, it's a little bit funky in our system. But so, we know, like we just had our biggest webinar ever. All right. Part of that was because 60% of the people on that webinar are people who bought the book. And we did it. We, we weren't stupid. We did it six weeks after the book launched, knowing full well that most people would be right around that step in the book, you know, so we did this training. It was, I mean, it wasn't even close. We did almost twice as much as we've ever done on a webinar. So that was awesome. And we know a lot of those came indirectly or directly from the book. What's been fascinating is, we really only have one offer in the book, and it's a $47 course. The other way is through the resources page. So we, we have tons, I mean, like 25 to 30 things that are free on the resources page. So it's in the book, you go to the URL, and then from there, there are things that you can then upgrade into from there. But yeah, I mean, just in, in webinar and after book sales, like things that you can buy that are directly from the book or the URL, there's a special URL, that's how we're tracking it, that's from the book. It's 225, 230 right now, I mean, it's gotten maybe a little bit higher, and it's like, I've been blown away because we were not budgeting. It's not that I'm an idiot. We just forgot about that. When we were doing like our planning, we weren't really thinking, oh, we're gonna sell a lot more, you know, of this course. And that means a lot more people are going to buy our, you know, we call them funnel Fridays, where we send out an email and offer a free download, and it goes into a funnel. And it just wasn't one of those things that registered and all of a sudden, it's like our normal funnel Friday brought in, it was like 3 or 400 dollars, you know, which was fine. It's like, extra money. Cool, yay. All of a sudden, they're doing over 1000 bucks. And I’m like, I remember asking, I asked our Ops Manager, I was like, is this because you redid the funnels? He's like, because I thought he had redone, he's working on them right now. Like, man, the new funnels are working, I'm like, way to go bud! He's like, I didn't release those yet (laughs). Like, well then what is, why are they suddenly over at, we've never had $1,000 Friday, you know, other than, like, when we do a big promotion. He's like, it's just the book buyers. You know, you gotta remember, this part, I did know, paying $25 for something means they are infinitely more valued than if they'd opted in for free. I mean, the level at which like, it's a $25 purchase, it's just, it's the pack of gum, it’s the equivalent of a pack of gum in a grocery store, right? But they now are so much more valuable than somebody who came in through any other offer. And we already knew that instinctively. Because if they come into our funnels, and purchase a $17 product, long term, they're worth, you know, 20, 25x of somebody who doesn't buy the $17 product. So you think 17 to 25 is a pretty good equivalent. So it's created great buyer's for us.

Anna: And I just want to walk it back for people who aren't as familiar with all of these marketing terms. So, so really, what it means is you had, you had one link or QR code in the book and you were saying it led to your resources page or it led to a $47 product or both?

Matt: We had both, we had both. So every, there are multiple mentions of the resources page in every chapter, because, you know, we’re saying go download the template here. Things that I want to include in the book, but it would have been 175,000-word manuscript. It's like, well, instead of me putting the template over the next two pages, just go here and download it. And so they go there. That's number one. And then yeah, there is a mention in it is, it's in two places in the entire book, where I reference it. I mean, we've sold, and it's a very specific URL. So we sold well over 200, I think.

Anna: And how do you do that in the paperback with a very specific URL? You have a redirect?

Matt: Yeah. Yep. It's just, I mean, the title of the book is Turn your Passions into Profits, so it was the regular URL forward slash, passion, or passions. Yeah.

Anna: And did, did your publisher have any issue, sometimes publishers have an issue with people attracting to their own newsletter list as opposed to the publishers?

Anna: No, and this is why, I'm not, I'm not endorsing my publisher, or I'm just telling you my experience. They didn't give a flying crap about that (laughs). Like, they, I could have put like dancing pink elephants in the manuscript and I think they probably would have signed off on it. I mean, they were amazing. Like they made it sound so much better. I mean, like I heard the guy who did the audiobook was my, they picked him. And as soon as I heard his voice, I'm like, they sent me a sample on it. Like, I know that voice. Oh, my gosh, that's the book. I'm listen, I'm listening to him right now. He just, he narrated a biography of Tiger Woods. And I'm like, that's the guy. This guy's Kyle Tate, this is the, like, oh my gosh, did they really pick my dream? Like, I just assumed that I’d kind of get somebody like a couple notches down. Like, this is a guy, he does like 50 books a year! And I was listening to him do it, and I'm going, man, this sounds so polished, almost too polished. It's not me, you know, it's like, bordering on the edge of too good. And so that's them. You know, that's the publisher being amazing. But as far as like whether or not I wanted to put some URLs or, you know, snide references and you know, sarcastic comments in there, they let me do whatever I wanted to, thankfully. So there's, there's a little sarcasm in there.

Anna: If, as we get, as we wrap up, what would be your advice to somebody who doesn't know this whole marketing world, but would love to add people to their list and would love to make money beyond book sales? And, and has potentially people they could use as affiliates? What would be your advice?

Matt: I would do three things. And this is exactly what we did. Because again, what we did was independent, that 30% came from the fact that I have experience. The 70% came, was not. So you know, maybe you will just miss the best seller list then, I don't know, or maybe you could still hit it if you start early enough. Number one, I would follow as many book launches over the next, you know, let's say you're gonna, let’s say you're planning on a launch in 15 months from now. For the next two months, I would sign up for at least 15 book launches. I would sign up in a few different niches. I might even buy books that you don't even plan on reading, just to go through and see what it's like, take, take a picture, a screenshot of their landing page. If you look at my landing page for my book, and what the landing page looked like for our client who launched about a year before Mark Miller, they're almost exactly the same, just different colors. Why? Because it worked. It converted really well. Why would I reinvent that? Where did the landing page design for Mark Miller came from? It came from when we did Lewis Howes. So where did Lewis House came from? It came from when did Jeff Goins. Where did that come from? It came because we copied it from some other people that we saw, you know. So study book launches, buy a couple things in their funnel. And that's your budget, like just set aside $1,000 for buying books and going through funnels, like there's no other way around it, you have to do that, number one. Screenshots, record all the emails they send, go to, go, go to their page and try to exit and see if they have an exit pop up. Like we had an exit pop up for a sample chapter. Not only did we end up selling over 300 books from people who downloaded the sample chapter, we added 2000 people to my email list for nothing, you know, it was just extra stuff. So that's number one, just become a student of book launches, and funnels and things like that. Number two, identify that one book. And if you want to identify three, that's fine. And go to Amazon, start creating the spreadsheet, what's the old saying, dig your well before you're thirsty? Start creating the spreadsheet of potential promotional partners and podcasts a year and a half in advance, a year in advance and make that list before you even start reaching out to them. And then thirdly, you got to, like, follow up, follow up, follow up. You mentioned my team was persistent. It's because we have a rule, like, no is not an acceptable, no’s just are, no response is not an acceptable answer. No we’ll accept to some extent. You know, like, if you're like, this book is not a good fit for me, I will never promote it. Cool, we're good. You know, don't, no need to follow up. But no response is not an acceptable answer. We will follow up and follow up and follow up and follow up. And so we usually follow up 12 to 15 times with our prospective affiliates. One little tip there, follow up on about an eight to ten day schedule, not a seven day schedule. So you hit people in different days, you know, and try different times of day and, you know, send an email over the weekend, sometimes. Try sending one at four o'clock in the morning, because you don't know maybe they're in Europe, four o'clock in the morning  where I'm at is probably tea time in Europe. I don't know how Europeans operate. I'm just kidding.

Anna: That is genius, this is genius.

Matt: Follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up, follow up. So again, but it goes back to that first thing, like you have to become a student of that. Because if you don't have a good landing page, and you don't have a good funnel, you're not gonna get good affiliates. So it's, I mean, I hate to say it's like, it's just busting your butt. I mean, I, I personally, my team did 70% of the work and I still probably spent 400 hours on this. It's, I don't know, if somebody out there saying this is easy, then I don't know what they're smoking because it's not easy. Is it worth it down the road? Yeah. Has it been? I'll be honest, so far. Probably not worth it.

Anna: But it's your legacy. It’s your lifetime.

Matt: But I’m getting close. It is. And also, from a purely financial standpoint, I think we're only about 30 days away from me going, you know what, I'm glad we did that. So yeah, it's like [inaudible] asked me like this exact question: why in the heck did you write this book? Like what a, you have things to do that bring in substantially more money? And I was like, yes, it's the legacy thing. But also, I know, I have faith that this is going to pay off in the end, and I think we're close. But yeah, it's hard, hard work. And it's a lot of hustle.

Anna: Okay. And one final question about that. So you say sign up for people's book launches? What if they go who, what? Do you, should they look at marketers who are going to be especially skilled at that?

Matt: I would do both, I would do all over the place. Um, you know, I think marketers, yeah, you know, and then you're also hopefully, if you're interested in marketing, you learn something from their book. Here's what I would do, I would go to Amazon. Again, Amazon makes it so easy for us, it’s stupid. Just look at books coming up. It says the, the, what is it, new releases or coming soon or whatever. It's also a great way to find people for your podcast by the way, just a little side note. Because I've had many guests on my podcast I had no business having. And it's because they had a book coming out. Authors do irrational things as evidenced by the fact I've done 160 or 170, podcasts, you know. Admittedly about 50 of them I probably could have skipped. But here's the thing, you go there and you look for the, then you go Google that. You go Google that book to find the book website. So this is the website that they're promoting on their podcast, or that they're telling people to go to. You might have to even go down a little bit because it might be on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books a Million, you know, in 17 other places before you get down to their book website. You find their book website, and you go through it. If that fails, go to their, just their homepage. They're probably featuring the book somewhere relatively close to their top of their homepage or somewhere like that, and go through that way. So you can find people who've got a book coming out and then start following them. And I'll even do little things like, I wouldn't do it now. But I did it, you know, back in the day when we were getting ready for this. I was like, we go subscribe to their podcast. And I found a couple of people I just want to hear how are they talking about the book? What are they doing on their podcast to promote the book? I signed up for their email list before I bought the books, I would, this is another little tip. I signed up for their email list using a different email address than I purchased the book with. Because I wanted to see how they promoted the book to non-buyers, not just the emails I got after I bought the book, because those are going to be different. And we created a big, but just a gigantic swipe file. There's one email in particular, I remember that we, for all intents and purposes, to be honest, we stole 70% of that email. I mean, the theme of that email, if you look at them side by side with the email that we sent, that our copywriter wrote, are almost identical. Very different story because it's my story, not their story. But the theme and everything is almost exactly the same. And it came because I did exactly what I said. So make sure you sign up with a different email address. So you don't just get the thanks for buying my book, here's your bonuses emails. And then all their regular emails you get the, I noticed you haven't bought my book yet. That was when we got on the, it was the last day of the pre-order bonuses that we stole. I would never have gotten that had I not signed up under a different email address.

Anna: Fascinating. Well, if people want to find out more about you, your, are your bonuses still live even though you're not in the launch?

 

Matt: They are, but only and this is only, I gotta find the URL here for you. I think I sent it earlier. So PassionsIntoProfitsBook.com forward slash Anna. So A N N A. If you go to that, that, that URL still has some awesome bonuses for your listeners Anna.

Anna: Right.

Matt: And so make sure to go to that one because if you just go to the store and, you know, or buy it at Barnes and Noble, that's great. Then go back there and, and redeem that there because you'll get those bonuses. So that's the best place, check out the book and then you know, MattMcWilliams.com for all your affiliate marketing needs and wants.

Anna: Well, thank you so much, Matt, and thanks you guys for listening. I will see you next week.

CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM

The Business Transforming Book with Tamar Hermes & Carla Moreno

 

Tamar Hermes is a real estate investor with more than 20 years' experience and the CEO of Wealth Building Concierge. Carla Moreno is a serial entrepreneur, realtor and real estate investor who has more than a decade of experience buying and selling family and luxury real estate.

The two have something in common in addition to real estate: they were both published by Legacy Launch Pad. Also, Tamar is Carla's coach! In this episode, we talked about what Tamar's book, The Millionairess Mentality, has done for her business a year later (including how she signed the baker who created the launch day cake we sent her as a client) and how Carla is going to use her just-launched book, Finding the Gold, as her platform for the rest of her career.

Listen in for their best tips on making the most of a book and what they say are the must-do's for the launch.

RELATED EPISODES:  

Mike Koenigs on Why You Need to Have a Product Embedded in Your Book

What a Book Can Do For an Entrepreneur with Rich Goldstein

TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Yes, we're recording. Hi, guys.

Tamar: Hello, hello.

Carla: Hello Anna. Hi Tamar.

Anna: So this is a very special episode because I've never really done it like this before. But we've got, I've got two of my favorite clients whose books we've done, who work together. One of whom her book came out over a year ago, and I would say her life has transformed as a result to the point that she always talks about wanting to do a second book. And one whose book just came out, and we're going to talk about what's happened so far and what can happen as a result of the book. I'm going to let you guys talk now. So okay, so Carla, how are you feeling in the month, it's the, after your launch? How are you feeling about putting your story out there?

Carla: I feel like super excited. Saturday was a launch party. It was a small, intimate, maybe like 50 people. And I, I just felt so amazing, because a lot of people came, came to me saying that they wanted to write a book. And just seeing that it's possible to, to just make that determination and go ahead and follow the steps, follow through, was an inspiration for them to actually start taking action to write their book. So that was very powerful.

Anna: And I love that too, cause Tamar was your inspiration.

Carla: Tamar was the one that put all my ideas into actionable items to make this a goal. Because when I talked to Tamar, at first, I told her, well, I'm thinking about writing a book, but I'm not sure where to start. And Tamar had all the steps from A to Z. And she's like, well, what's stopping you from, from doing it right now? This is all you need to know. And, I would, I don't think I would have written a book that quickly if it wasn't because of Tamar and her inspiration, and her guidance through the process.

Tamar: Okay, I'm complete. I'm just gonna go now. I just, I love what you said, Carla, that you inspired so many people, because there's so many layers to the inspiration of writing the book. For me, it was the same thing where I felt like I had certain knowledge, I had a story I wanted to share, and getting it out there and being a year in, and listening to women call me and write me and tell me that they read my book. And that they were inspired, that they bought properties because they learned how to do it. And they felt safer because of what I shared is, is really a game changer in life. I mean, this is what we want, we want to be, we want to be in the world and, and helping each other in creating and inspiring, and a book does that so beautifully.

Carla: Yeah, I agree.

Anna: So okay, so Tamar, if you had to say, what is the biggest change in your life or in people's perception of you since you published the book?

 

Tamar: So I wrote down some notes, but from my heart…

Anna: Yes.

Tamar: The, the biggest thing has to do with the, the level of, of expertise that people now see me. So once you have a book it, it legitimizes what you feel, what you think, what you share. When you write it down, and people can read it or listen to it on an audio, they, they are taking in you at a whole other level. The other thing that I love, that ties into this too, Anna, you always talk about, what is it 83% of people want to write books and only 3% do.

Anna: Yeah, I think it’s 81% want to, but close enough.

Tamar: The, the beautiful thing about it is that once you are crossed the finish line, wow, look at what you've done. So not only have you done something that you really wanted to do, but then you also shared yourself so magnificently with the world. And then you're being acknowledged, and, and opportunities come, and clients come and, and there's, there's an opportunity now I'm looking at doing a TED Talk. There's all kinds of things that happen once you have a book. You're at a different level of, of notoriety.

Anna: Yeah, yeah. So Carla, have you seen any of that yet? Or is it too soon?

Carla: Well, it's not yet too soon. Well, for example, for the party, I just reached out to the city, to the Mayor of the City of Buren. And he was there, he bought a bunch of books and he posted it all over social media, how inspired it was to see Latina entrepreneur inspiring other Latinas. And I'm already starting to see that recognition, people reaching out through social media. And it just feels amazing because I think the most difficult part of writing a book is making the decision to actually do it. Because once you do, once you decide, it's like the entire universe conspires, puts you in front of the right people like Tamar, like you, Anna, to make it, to make it happen. So I know that wonderful things are coming soon.

Anna: Well, they are. And here's what it was occurring to me too about, about both of you is doing a book brings up so much fear that people don't acknowledge and it's like, one of my biggest problems is that people don't see it. I see it. And then it makes them do all sorts of things. Usually not move forward with their book at all. Sometimes it's, they obsess over every comma. And, and I would say with that…

Tamar: I did that, remember?

Anna: Oh, I remember. But see, Carla, I will say from the very beginning, we took our time with it. I know you said it happened really quickly. But what I really liked about you, as you were like, let's take this over a year. That was actually for us a very long time to work on a project. And I would say things as I was reading it going, this is really good. And you write back and go, really? Like you didn't know it, you were acknowledging that like, to me it was so obvious. And, and then and Tamar, because we're friends you admitted when you know, we were sort of like, we need to hear back from you on this and this. And you said to me, you were like, maybe I'm not yet responding so quickly, because I'm scared. Do you remember you said that to me?

Tamar: Yeah, I did.

Anna: And so what would you tell people who, who, I mean, I think the main thing is be aware of the fact that it's going to trigger your fear. And most of us have defense mechanisms that don't allow us to acknowledge that.

Tamar: Yeah, I think that the most important thing is, even though we're talking about all the wins of writing the book, I think at the end of the day, the biggest reason to write the book is for yourself.

Anna: Yeah.

Tamar: So when you let, when you, you have the fear. And then you also have the part of you that really has this in your heart, that wants to leave something for your kids. That wants to leave something for other people. That wants to be an expression in the world through a book. And if you focus on that, and you know that that is the goal, then it's a lot easier when the fear comes up to say, hey, I know why I'm doing this. I have a bigger why than my fear. Because…

Anna: Yes.

Tamar: Let's face it, I mean, fear is just, it just sucks the life out of you. And there's just, at a certain point, we know that all of our successes are going to come as we conquer each chapter that we're afraid of, no pun intended.

Anna: Yes. What about you, Carla, in terms of fear around it?

Carla: Oh, I was terrified. I wasn't ready to sign the final form. I couldn't sleep for a few days. In particular, because I, I expose very vulnerable aspects of my life, of my family, my dad, and, and it was difficult. In fact, I had to have the conversation with my dad. And I told him, Dad I know you're excited about me writing the book, but I just have to tell you that there are chapters that you're not going to enjoy. But then I also explained that the reason why I did it was to also inspire people that are going through challenges. And to keep, but to keep going because there is some light at the end of the tunnel. We just have to keep on going and, and be afraid and do it anyway.

Anna: Yeah, absolutely. And was his, what was his response, when he read the parts? Was it not as bad as you thought?

Carla: Oh, he hasn't read it because he doesn't speak English. So he's waiting for the Spanish version. So there's still some fear inside me. I have to be honest.

Anna: You can still change some stuff… [inaudible] differently. No, I'm kidding. But you know what's interesting about that, and I don't know if you've, okay, so my very first client is this guy named Darren Prince who basically, I have a business because he insisted that we write and publish his book. He's a sports agent. His book is about his addiction and recovery. This has nothing to do with sports agenting. And he told me, it transformed his business because every negotiation turned into a conversation between friends. Because they knew these incredibly personal things about him. So I don't know if you've experienced that, or if, you know, fear around, exposing that stuff. We just think we're going to be judged and it's always the opposite. People love us more for it. Have you…

Carla: Yeah, because…

Tamar: Absolutely. 100 percent.

Anna: So Okay, Tamar you go first. How?

Tamar: Well, I was gonna say that I feel that the vulnerability is what makes us relatable. It makes us human. Because we're all afraid to fail. We're afraid to look stupid, we're afraid to have mud on our face. And the truth is, we all have a version of that. And so when we're willing to expose ourselves and say, hey, I had the same thing, then you don't feel so alone. It also inspires a lot of people when they read my book, and when they read Carla's book, to invest in real estate, because they see, hey, you know, this Latina lady did it. She didn't have any money. And she figured it out. I can do this. This child of a Holocaust survivor did it…

Anna: Yeah.

Tamar: And can figure it out. So I just, I just think that it's, it's also I think, our calling, our yearning to be vulnerable. I think we want people to see us, we want to connect, we don't want to live a life alone and fearful. So I think that that's another opportunity that the book gives us.

Anna: Mm hmm. Absolutely. What about you Carla, do you have anything to add to that?

Carla: I agree 100% with Tamar. A lot, what, what I've heard is that some people have told me, wow, I didn't know that you went through so many difficult things. Because from the outside, it looks like everything is easy. And it's success after success. And that things just, they would appear to just come easily. And the reality is that we struggle like everybody else. It's just a matter of getting that armor, right? And that mindset to say, okay, I'm going through difficult things. I am going to conquer it. I will find a way. And I could see that that inspired and empowered a lot of people because, especially on Saturday, they were like, oh my God, you are, you are so relatable. You're not that different from me. And before reading the book, it seemed like you were just luckier or had everything work for you. And no, you've gone through challenges. So, so I think like Tamar said, it's important to be vulnerable, and to show everyone that we're human, and we all made, make mistakes. And it's not a matter of how many times we fall down. It's a matter of how many times we get back up.

Anna: I’m so sorry. My cat is very drawn to you ladies.

Tamar: We are always welcome to bring Bernie along for the ride. We like Bernie.

Anna: Do you know that Tamar stayed with me and Bernie would wait outside the bathroom door for her total obsession with Tamar. So I'm sure that's, that's why.

Tamar: and I was sort of mean to Bernie because I locked him out of my room.

Anna: Typical man. That's why he fell for you. It’s, so one of my favorite sort of client stories is when we were getting our cake ready to send Tamar. Carla, we sent you cookies and…

Carla: Thank you so much. I love them. I was so busy during those days trying to plan everything. I'm like, I keep forgetting I actually have a video that I'm ready to post.

Anna: Oh, you have to because we obsessed over what's the best thing you can send somebody that would make you know, it just feel like their, you know, coming out party. And so we were doing cakes. And then we thought, well the cake gets eaten. If we send it in a cookie package, then they can use that forever. Tamar, I'm so sorry but…

Tamar: The cake worked out. The cake has a great ending to the story, though.

Anna: What happened? What happened with the cake, Tamar?

Tamar: I had a beautiful cake delivered to my home in Austin. And it said The Millionaire's Mentality, it looked exactly like my book. It was amazing. And a, a couple days later, the owner of the cake company called me and hired me. So right there, it was a great, it was a great success story. And, and I also wanted to share another aspect that I think is important with, with books and with, with getting it done. So a lot of people think, I don't want to spend the money because I don't know if I'm gonna get an ROI on this, return on investment. And so they don't want to pay money for books. And part of the way that you get it done is by hiring a company like Legacy Launch Pad to help you execute on, on whatever level it is. And so I just wanted to say that, you know, as you're going through it, and you know, Carla also, she, you know, invested in herself in, in getting the book done. And that, one it got me to that, it got both of us to the finish line. And the other thing was that the, the return on investment has been exponential and it really is a gift that keeps giving. So I think it's worth, definitely worth the investment to, to work with professionals that know what they're doing. Because a lot of times those things can stop us, especially when we're afraid and we think, oh it's too complicated. There's too many moving parts. I can't get through it. If you have a team in place that can help you, coach you along and help you get it done, it boy, does it, it basically is the difference between doing it and not doing it.

Anna: Yeah, there's like a quick thing. I don't know, I can't remember if I've talked about this on this podcast before. But I was at an event. And I met this guy who was like, exited his company for multi-millions. And he was very proud of the fact that he had hired a very inexpensive book publisher to do his book. And he showed me. And it, online, it looks terrible. More importantly, he has the same name as like a serial killer, literally. And his Google presence was so not good. That literally, it would say his name and show a picture of the killer. It wasn't a serial killer. It was like a terrible person. I blocked out what the person did. And had he used a real company, his Google presence overnight would have been known as an author. But instead it's literally known as like a murderer or something terrible, simply because he wanted to, like, save the money and do it that way. It just killed me. And I said, you shouldn't have done it. And he goes, oh, no, I paid all this money to try to get this, my name not associated with this guy's and I’m like, all you actually had to do was do a book and then have a press release go out, and have it go to 6000 outlets, and it would have changed overnight. Okay, but Carla, did you want to add anything to like, you know, I like this idea of it being an investment in yourself, the same way people do personal development or masterminds?

Carla: It is, it is and it pays off to work with someone that knows what they're doing. I have a few friends that are authors as well, they've written a few books, and they all want their, your contact now, because they were impressed on the quality of the print, of the book, of the cover, of the design, of everything.

Anna: This is not meant to be a commercial, listeners. There are other companies like ours that, you know, frankly, cost less, and, and some of them are good. And then there are places that cost a lot more, but it's really about what your, what your intention is, what your why is. And I think it's wonderful to help people. But I always say, if you just want to help people go volunteer, because it's a lot easier and less expensive than doing a book. So you can absolutely help people and have a great ROI for yourself. They are not mutually exclusive. Right?

Tamar: Yes. 100%. 100%. And you can, you can Venmo us both. We gave you our link, right?

Anna: Yeah, for the referral fees (laughs). So okay, so and I also wanted to talk about what, so Tamar became a Cover Girl. Let's talk about that. And how that had to do with the book.

Tamar: Yeah, so I spent some, I spent again, investing in myself in some PR when the book came out. And one of the opportunities that was pursued was Austin Women's Magazine. And they called me and asked me to do a cover story. And it was a five-page spread on me. I got, I mean, even if I didn't get any clients from it, just those photos were spectacular. And the way that they styled me and the story that they shared about me. And they never would have seen me in the same way if I wasn't a published author. I think it definitely elevated the, the resume and had them really feel that I was someone that they wanted to represent on the cover of the magazine. So that was a huge win for me.

Anna: I love it. I love it. And so Carla what, so the idea, so you are going to, you have a coaching program, tell us about the business plan, the ROI, getting the money back times 100.

Carla: I have a coaching program. I, initially I was going to charge a lot less but now that I'm a published author and that (laughs) and I have the confidence of sharing that knowledge, and knowing that, that all the knowledge that we have has so much value, more than what I wanted to charge initially. So now I'm increasing the price. I already have people that believe that it’s a super fair price to pay even if it's three times more than when I initially had intended to. And I can see just from, from that coaching program and from people knowing that I'm already a published author that it's, that my opinion has value. I'm already seeing that ROI and that aspect.

Anna: I love it. Now what is your, and this is not like don't, it's not working with us. What is the smartest thing you did? Like, what was the, was it the launch squad? Was it the party? Like, what was the best, what would be your advice for, for somebody who might be doing it on their own? Like, what can you, what do you need to do? What was the most successful aspect of your launch? 

Carla: I think, to not reinvent the wheel, to follow experts’ advice and to do everything. Because I don't think it's only one of the things that I'm more, that has worked best because everything really worked. It's the social media. It's the definitely the book launch squad.

Anna: Yeah.

Carla: Already having those reviews, the party as well, gives so much more exposure. So I think doing everything, not, not just picking and choosing, but you guys gave us recommendations. You're experts, you already know what works. And I did everything.

Anna: Yeah. And you're the first book that we're publishing in another language, which is kind of exciting for us.

Carla: Oh, fun!

Anna: And so you wanted to do that. Because from the very beginning, you were like, this is, this is for everyone. We talk a little bit about your decision to want to do both.

Carla: Yes. Yes, well, because I was born and raised. I'm a Latina, and most of my family only speak Spanish. I think the, the message is powerful. And it's important to write it in Spanish, because I don't know that many inspirational books in, that are written in Spanish that I could relate to. I mean, of course, there's the, the big ones, right, The 5 AM Club, etc. But, I really wanted to also do a service to my Latino community. So I'm excited about that.

Anna: I love it. So Tamar, what was the most useful thing, like what, what's a can't miss on your launch? For people?

Tamar: I would say, definitely doing the, the what you call the launch squad, but anybody can do it. It's basically before your book is released, get some friends to review it on Amazon, and start building up the review so that you don't look like that person that has like two reviews. Because it kind of says like, why do I want to read this book. So you want to have at least 100 reviews on there, so that you feel like you're, like people might take notice that don't know about you. The second thing is to just really be proactive about sharing the book. I tried it wherever I go, I try to bring a couple books with me. And I give them out. And I just spread the love because I want other people, women, is because that's who I wrote the book for, to read the book. And so for me a, having the books with me, making sure that I'm actively sharing it, putting it wherever anyone will let, allow me. Doing some businesses, they sponsor books for the month, and when you sign up with them, they'll share the book that would, that's another way. And I just, I just think that you can't, you can't share it enough and, and give it out enough.

Anna: Have you left it in random places? Like a Starbucks [inaudible]?

Tamar: I haven’t left it in random places. But boy, that's kind of a cool idea. Maybe I will do that. That might be fun. Maybe I'll just go put some in Whole Foods and sign them…

Anna: Exactly, where your clients are. I left a water bottle for Launch Pad in a fancy Vegas gym. And I was like, oh, I need to go get that. And I'm like, maybe I don't, maybe it’s better if someone finds it. But wait, I have a question. What did you just say about businesses sponsoring your book, what’s that?

Tamar: Oh, so I had for example, I had a friend that owns a company that does self-directed IRAs. And, and so she sets those, she sets those plans up. So when every month she has a different book that she shares with clients. And when they sign up, she gave them a copy of my book and included it with the welcome package. So things like that. I have a friend that has a title company, and she also got some books and then shared them with her clients and sent them out.

Anna: That's really smart. So anyone who has, you know, because Tamar’s book is about real estate, it makes sense for that. But everybody's got some sort of an industry where if you're doing a how-to book, it can teach people how to do something. And it'll make them look good to know an author that they can send it out. Well, okay, so as we, as we wrap up, what, is there anything I didn't ask you guys that you want to add about doing a book, launching a book? Tamar’s looking at her notes.

Tamar: I'm looking at my notes just to make sure I didn't leave anything out.

Anna: Anything?

Tamar: Well, on my notes, I mean, my, my main thing is, is really, if you have, if you have it in your heart to write a book, if you feel that you have a message, if you feel you have a story you want to share, if you feel like you want to leave it for your children, or for friends, or for the world. It's going to live beyond you and that is a really cool concept. It's just like having like, it's, it's so, it's not like having a kid. I mean, having kids is much better. But I mean, you know, but you know, your kids live beyond you like a book lives beyond you. It's a, it's a legacy. And, and that is pretty prolific for me. So I think that if you have that in your heart, then just, I would say that that's the most important thing to just get off, get off the, the, the fear seat and just get going on it and do it.

Anna: I love it. Carla, what about you?

Carla: It's a great way to transcend, like Tamar said, and that's where the courage comes from, from being afraid and, and, and still doing it because the fear is going to be there, right, to expose your ideas, to expose yourself, to be vulnerable. But when you tap into a bigger why, when it's no longer about just you, but inspiring and helping other people. That can take you forward with that courage and moving along.

Anna: I love it. So if people want to find you guys, where should they go online?

Carla: My website CarlaMoreno.com.

Anna: I love it.

Tamar: And you can get my book at TamarBook.com.

Anna: Love it. Well, thanks you guys. Thank you lovely ladies, and thanks you all listeners for listening. I'll see you next week. 

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The Introvert's Guide to a Successful Book Launch with Ryan Paugh

 

Does the word "networking for your book launch" make you want to curl up in a small ball and rock back and forth?

This week's guest will assuage your anxieties...or at least get you to uncurl.

Ryan Paugh isn't just a thought leader, but also a community-building, relationship-forging, entrepreneur-enabling force to be reckoned with. And he's a self-proclaimed introvert!

The co-author of the book Superconnector: Stop Networking and Start Building Business Relationships That Matter, Ryan shares in this episode how any author, introvert or extrovert, can use basic skills for connection in order to have a successful book launch.

RELATED EPISODES:  

How to Launch a Book by Giving First with Kay Allison

The Debut of Launch Pad with Dave Chesson

TRANSCRIPT: 

Anna: Welcome to the show, Ryan. Thanks for being here.

Ryan: Yeah, thank you.

Anna: So, let's talk about super connecting your way to a successful book launch. First of all, what is a super connector?

Ryan: Superconnector in my mind, as well as my co-author Scott's, is a phrase that's meant to describe someone who knows how to navigate very fluidly the new world of relationship building, not networking. People that have probably most likely grown up in this digital age of communication, know how to leverage that in a world full of uncertainty and a lot of hucksters and folks just selling air. They're individuals that put others first and have learned that by connecting the dots between individuals and resources, you can really build a long term, successful and profitable network around yourself by of course, first and foremost, giving back and supporting others.

Anna: So how does that play into a book launch? How did it play into a book launch for you?

Ryan: Yeah, for me, and for Scott. I mean, really, we had been building up a lot of social currency for a while to bring some really great folks into the fold. Keith Ferrazzi wrote our foreword, which we were super grateful with him for doing. Adam Grant was one of the main individuals we interviewed for the book. Other folks like Steve Sims, Barbara Corcoran, gave us an amazing soundbite and an amazing promotion for the book.

Anna: Endorsement.

Ryan: An endorsement, thank you. Yeah, to really help us get that out there and show the social proof and show the connectivity we had with others in the space that would help us build some credibility. And really, that didn't come out of thin air, it was in cold calling and cold emailing. It was a lot of calculated connections and relationships that we had been fostering for many years, giving back and just leading with generosity that led to, you know, a lot of really exciting yeses when we asked for help for our own book launch.

Anna: So, what does that look like? Did you say, we really, I really want to know, Barbara Corcoran? I really want to know, Adam Grant. And then what did you do next?

Ryan: You know, really, it's a combination of things. And it's not always about that person. One of the things that we talk about in the book Superconnector, is that oftentimes getting in touch with individuals, at corporations or individuals within major brands. It's not about just reaching out to them, it's about identifying and finding the people around them, who help them make the decisions that help them, basically run their lives and run their empire. So for some of these folks, it wasn't so much just, you know, reaching out to them directly, but getting to know the people around them, supporting them, and helping them out that eventually led to enough generosity being built up where we could make that connection and have enough credibility and trust that those folks were more interested in us and helping us kind of get connected to those people that they support. So that more times than not, is how it was done, not just reaching out directly, but reaching out through someone else that we had built trust with.

Anna: So how do you find those people?

Ryan: You know, it's not always easy. Some of it just comes through serendipity and natural collision, putting yourself out there and making time in your life to build those connections. Some of its more scientific than that. Knowing how to research and find the people around the people, whether that's through LinkedIn or reading about them. You know, there's no one size fits all approach. But if you know how to navigate the digital world and find information over time, you'll be able to follow some threads back to how people are connected.

Anna: Well, and it reminds me, I'm making a note of this. In the episode on Tim Ferriss, I talked about how he went to South by Southwest. It's like a legendary anecdote about how he made his first book so successful is he looked at the biggest people in the room and he said, who's standing next to them? That's the person I want to know. So this is like the digital version of that.

Ryan: For sure. And sometimes it happens in person too. I don't want to kind of mislead people into thinking super connections all about navigating, the social media era. In person connections, in real life connections matter now, more than ever, we just went through a couple of years of being in solitude. People want to get back out there, but they want to get back out there in different ways, and we're seeing a lot of individuals kind of shy away from the conference and look for more intimate ways to connect with people. I mean, for years at South by I've been going to South by and not going to the convention center, go to you find those little like oases around the conference center where people are going to disconnect and recharge in between panels and conferences. That's where you meet those people. Not kind of shuffling your way through a crowded happy hour or a crowded conference space.

Anna: Yeah, I went last year and never stepped foot into anything official. But, and which reminds me Fast Company is doing something there, which you and I know each other through Fast Company. So when I stop recording, I'm going to ask you about that.

Ryan: Yeah, for sure.

Anna: But, so you are a self-proclaimed introvert. Correct?

Ryan: Yep, I am.

Anna: So I know that a lot of people who listen say, well, I'm a writer, I'm an introvert, I can't really do this. What do you say to them?

Ryan: I think that introverts are more set up for success at building real genuine relationships in some ways, compared to extroverts. And the reason why is introverts don't have the built in needs to sort of like, run the conversation and run the show, are more natural listeners. And part of connecting the dots and being a superconnector really requires you to like kind of take a step back and listen to other people and listen to what they're saying. And to not just listen, but to read in between the lines, to understand what their needs are. So, for me, being an introvert has always been a superpower. It helps me understand people better, it helps me listen and really understand what they're saying and helps me start to play that game of connect the dots to determine how I can help them with either a connection to a person or a connection to a resource that I think will help them level up and achieve their goals.

Anna: That's fascinating. And I'm sure music to people's ears, although don't ever use a cliche like that in your writing people, please, please, please. It's okay sometimes when you're talking. Never okay, in your writing. So thinking of writing, tell me about the process of working with your co-author. How did that work?

Ryan: Yeah. Well, what's really challenging, having a co-author, I imagine just at a baseline, is tough. Having, you know, a co-author who is sort of like, polar opposite, is even more challenging. I'm your textbook, introvert, Scott Gerber, my business partner as well, is like textbook extrovert. In business that really suits us well, because we've spent years, knowing our strengths, knowing our weaknesses, and being able to divide and conquer in our business. When you're working on something, so creative, and so close to yourself, like a book, a lot of times you kind of end up in a room, in this think tank. And you realize you have totally different ways of thinking around how you build relationships, how you how you connect with others. And it made it very difficult to kind of figure out how to balance all of those ideas. And I think one of the things we say early on in the book, which I think is important is, like there is no one size fits all approach to doing this, like there is no blueprint, unfortunately, our book is meant to not be prescriptive, but to just inspire you to find your own way of building relationships and building community around yourself both personally and professionally. So, once I came to terms with that, it became easier to work with one another and to find that balance between, this is Scott talking, and this is Ryan talking. And I hope in the book that comes through. I've talked to a few friends and asked them that question. And they say, oh, yeah, I can tell, this chapter is totally Scott, this chapter is totally Ryan. And we had some great editors working with us to help us do that. I would say on our own, it would have been really challenging. So, I'm grateful to have the editors that we did, who are able to basically take this puzzle of ideas and insights and package it in a way that makes sense. Without them, it would have been really difficult.

Anna: Did you write together, or you wrote individually?

Ryan: We did a lot of writing individually. We did a lot of meetings where we came together with our editors to figure out how to piece that all together and give it like a common voice while also being respectful of our individual ideas and our individual tone as people. So, it was like some sort of locking myself in a room being creative doing my introvert thing. Because I'm not great at kind of just spouting out ideas on the fly, Scott could just kind of talk and I would write for him. And for me, it's like, I really like to have my space to get ideas generated, and then meet and talk about how we blend all of those things together. So there were a lot of moving parts, a lot of meeting a lot of together time, a lot of private time, about six months’ worth of all of that kind of coming together to form the first draft, which we edited, and then edited it again, and slowly got to a place where we were ready to say, alright, publisher, do your part, let's get this ready and put it out there.

Anna: And so, what was your goal with the book?

Ryan: Our goal was really to take the last 10 years of what we had been doing with our business, Community.co, and sharing those lessons with our followers, people around our sphere. Community building has always been something that's like, near and dear to me. It's been the center of everything I've done in my career, since the beginning. Beyond just wanting to share all of that information with our world, I think being able to create Superconnector was a great way for us to take our brand and kind of centralize it around this idea of community and relationship building. We started 10 years ago as one community, YEC, stands for Young Entrepreneur Council. It was kind of like, our baby, and we realized, through that process of building that community that everything we had built both products, technology, and philosophy around bringing people together could be applied to other executive and senior leadership groups. And that's how we started working with brands like Forbes and brands, like Fast Company and Rolling Stone to build their own communities. So as we kind of expanded, we needed that umbrella to have like some cash and have some recognition. Superconnector was kind of, in some ways, a marketing strategy to help us build that Community.co brand and build some kind of recognition in the marketplace.

Anna: What were the tangible results from doing that? Did it accomplish that?

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. It was a great way for us to put ourselves out there to thought leaders. We did a lot of podcasts, we did a lot of more traditional press, and earned media and got a lot of good attention, not just for the book but for Community.co, and our process and our story and what we believe in our values as a company. So yeah, we sold a lot of books, which was great. We put something together that we had been dreaming about putting together for a long time and we also were able to kind of centralize like what we were doing around this new brand that has helped us ever since kind of create some notoriety in the market, so when we go out and look for new partners and opportunities, they know who we are.

Anna: And I think it's really interesting, when you talked about doing podcasts. Podcasts don't really tend to want to have people on to talk about their businesses, but if you've got a book, that is a wonderful way to also talk about your business.

Ryan: Yeah, for sure. And podcasts, I mean, at least when we launched the book, far more effective way of building some book sales than traditional press. I mean getting featured by a mainstream media outlet for your book is a good way to build some social proof. Not a great way to sell books. People who have influence and have followings, such as yourself, are more inclined to have influence over what other people want to buy and where they want to invest time and money. So, we spent a lot of time doing that. Email newsletters, things like that have a lot more just tangible results than the traditional earned media publicity angle.

Anna: Were there specific podcasts that really moved the needle in terms of book sales?

Ryan: I found that there wasn't just one big one, but a lot of little ones right. Micro-influencers that you can find and easily connect with within whatever your niche might be, that will help drive success. I hate to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak, I think that you can do a lot with a larger group of micro-influencers than perhaps trying to invest all your time into getting the attention of one, like massive influencer, who may or may not end up following through.

Anna: How would you recommend people find those in their field, in their genre?

Ryan: Oh, gosh. Spend time on social platforms like LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, looking for them. Join podcasting groups and communities. I mean, there's probably like, just dozens of free groups on Facebook or LinkedIn, where podcasters are chatting every day. And people are always generous and happy to give recommendations. Use your existing networks. I think one of the things that worked to our advantage is that Scott, and I build associations and put a lot of our personal time into supporting those associations. And we're also a part of associations outside of the ones that we run. So just calling on your people to support you in these moments is always important. I mean, we asked all of our groups hey, like, who do you know, who would be interested in having us on for an interview? And we got so many great connections, and so many doors opened. Because, again, we had spent so much time building up the generosity within those communities that when it was time for us to make an ask, I mean, people were ready and willing to help, and we really appreciated that.

Anna: And so when it comes to how your book is your calling card today, you said a lot of people that you want to work with and started working with know who you are, is that something where you literally are sending copies of your book? What are the practical steps people can take with their book?

Ryan: Yeah, I mean, look, sending copies is always a great way to start. Making sure that you build that into your budget. I mean, I always, whenever someone sends me a copy of a book, I always try to at least post about it on my social platforms. Show everyone me holding that physical book, I think it creates a sense of like, tangibility that hey, this is something real that Ryan's holding versus, kind of digital copies that I can read and come up with some anecdotes about to share. I like that sort of physical presence. I've seen some authors do some really cool stuff recently with their books. A friend of mine, Brittany Hodak just wrote a book and sent me like an entire care package along with the book. There was like a video inside the front cover.

Anna: Oh yeah, I love those.

Ryan: And it blew my mind. Like, it's just how do you not want to help someone celebrate something like that? By the way, Brittany just sent me a Valentine's Day card, like the other day thanking me for all the help I gave her on promotions. That personal touch matters so much these days. It's hard to scale some of this stuff, but try to find a good balance between automation and systems with like, maintaining that that personal touch that really helps you build relationships. Yeah, there's a lot of really cool stuff, and really cool packaging opportunities out there now to help you stand out.

Anna: Yeah, it's ironic, it was sort of direct mail really fell by the wayside, as we became the email generation. And now it feels like it's really back. And anybody who I just connected, somebody just connected me with somebody on Alibaba, who does those exact videos that you can put in an—

Ryan: Yeah, they’re really cool.

Anna: They're so cool. You don't know what I'm talking about? I'll try to put a picture of it in the show notes.

Ryan: I mean, they're not expensive, either. I mean in the grand scheme of things, like it seemed pretty cheap to put that together. I think a lot of people get scared away from some of these marketing tactics, because they think, oh my god, it's going to cost me an arm and a leg like, no, there are cheap things you can do, that aren't going to cost you that much more than sending a physical copy of your book, that really, like create that wow factor for people.

Anna: I think it's true. And I really would say the theme of what we're talking about is that the most effective marketing things you can do are actually free. It's giving of yourself for a long time. And then so you're not sort of busting out with oh, my book is here, will you do this for me? But you actually have people who want to help you. Because it sort of is that Robert Cialdini, that's the whole concept of you give and people want to give back.

Ryan: Yeah, no. It's important that you don't keep that part to the last minute. I mean, you should be building up trust and support and generosity with your community for years leading up to a big launch, whether it's a company launch, a book launch, whatever. It's not something that you can just rush out the door overnight. Like, the people that do this right, are doing it for a long period of time. And it's just something that's part of their daily ritual, habitual generosity. How do you kind of like sprinkle that into your day to day, so that over time, you're building up these dividends to support yourself by making time to support others?

Anna: Yeah, and I mean it literally, you could even put in your calendar, 20 minutes a day, what can I do? Maybe that's doing an iTunes review, maybe that's sharing posts, maybe that's sending an email to someone you don't know, telling them how much such and such has helped.

Ryan: Simple gestures like that mean the world to the people on the other side.

Anna: Yeah.

Ryan: It's such little time away from our daily schedule, that they're worth it, just to find that that small win that you can give to someone else.

Anna: And it makes you feel good.

Ryan: That too.

Anna: It really does.

Ryan: Yeah.

Anna: So, what else? Any parting wisdom for somebody kind of gearing up for their launch? Maybe their first launch, maybe a second launch, if the first didn’t go well?

Ryan: Yeah, I would say, just in any launch, book, products, whatever, like, share your ideas on the upfront with as many people as possible. I give this advice a lot. But it still holds true. Like, most people won't share enough about what they're working on because they're scared that someone else is going to steal that idea or whatever. No one can execute on like, that precise idea and the way that you can. The worst thing that's going to happen is nothing. Best thing that's going to happen is you're going to find people that want to collaborate, work with you, partner with you, or just kind of like, be your your cheer squad along the way. I think that is the most important part. Everyone has good ideas, whether they know it or not, it's whether or not they decide to put them out there. And right now, like in the world that we live in, with the amount of free tools and abilities to connect with others that are available to us at the tip of our fingers, there's so much opportunity to get that stuff out there and to connect with people in just a genuine way. Show some vulnerability and share, and you'll be amazed at just what kind of domino effect that can create.

Anna: Yeah, there's this great quote, I can't remember who it's from, but you don't have to worry about people stealing your ideas. If they're any good, you're going to have to ram them down people's throats.

Ryan: It's true. It's true.

Anna: Most of us have more ideas than we know what to do with and we're not out to steal yours, I promise. Well, Ryan, thank you so much. If people want to find you, find the book, where's the best place for them to go?

Ryan: Oh, I'm super easy to find. You just google Ryan Paugh or find me on Twitter or find me on LinkedIn. I am always happy to connect and geek out with people around community and building relationships. It's what I love to do, especially geeking out on other people's community building strategies and things like that. It's fun to kind of step away from your own stuff for a minute and look at what someone else is doing. So yeah, I’m easy to find. Pick up a copy of the book if you're interested, www.superconnectorbook.com. Check out Community.co, if you're interested in learning about some of our professional associations and the work we do. I'd say that's about it, and I appreciate you having me on and thanks to everyone for listening.

Anna: Thank you, Ryan, and thank you all for listening. I'll see you next week, talk to you next week. You know what I mean.

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