Anna David's Blog, page 12
October 26, 2022
How to Fix a Broken Book: Misty McAfee
Misty McAfee is an author, marketer, real estate agent and delightful human. She's also someone who has some writing out there that could be relaunched—in particular a book on codependence she released in 2015 and a play she released in 2021.
In this episode, we went through both and discussed how she could change her title, cover, description, publishing company and more.
We also discussed what made her launch the way she did, how to relaunch a book while keeping your existing Amazon reviews and what happens when you dedicate a book to a now ex-husband.
Everything we discuss can be applied to your own books so take some notes for either your upcoming launch or a relaunch of any existing book!
RELATED EPISODES:
How to Fix a Broken Book: John Checki
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
October 17, 2022
How to Sell 1000s of Books Before Even Writing it with Dan Nicholson
Dan Nicholson graduated summa cum laude from Seattle University with degrees in accounting and information systems before completing a fellowship at the Governmental Accounting Standards Board. He went on to work at Deloitte and various Fortune 500 companies and has been named to CPA Practice Advisor’s 40 Under 40 list of global accountants four times.
But, as he might say, blah blah blah.
His passion—and what he wrote his book Rigging the Game about—is what he had to unlearn after doing all those impressive things. He poured it all into Certainty U, a program that helps purpose-based entrepreneurs "get lucky."
On this episode, we discussed how he was able to sell thousands of copies of a book he hadn't yet written—in short, how he was able to rig the book publishing game. (And how you can, too.)
For more about Dan and his book, go to www.riggingamazon.com.
RELATED EPISODES:
Jesse Krieger on Crowd Funding Your Book Launch
Mike Koenigs on Why You Need to Have a Product Embedded in Your Book
Writing a Book in Public with Jesse J. Anderson
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
October 12, 2022
How to Fix a Broken Book: John Checki
Did you launch a book and have it not go according to plan?
That's what happened to John Checki, which is why he's the ideal person to feature on my new type of episode, "How to Fix a Broken Book."
He released his book, Spend Time and Save Money, in 2020 and while it's served as a business card for his son JJ (they wrote it together), it hasn't moved the needle nearly as much as it could have.
And so we discussed how his title, cover, description, byline, publisher name and reviews, among many other things, could be improved.
I'm terribly excited about this because even though listeners can't see the Amazon page in discussion (unless you go here), the episode contains so many actionable steps you can take if you're gearing up for a launch (or want to launch your book so successfully that you don't need to consider a re-launch).
John said he was going to implement these suggestions for a Thanksgiving relaunch and my plan is to reach out to listeners/subscribers whenever one of the books we've revamped in one of these episodes is relaunched and all support each other. (Except for me, who has been banned from doing Amazon reviews. We get into that in this episode.)
Enjoy and learn what not to do, or at least how to fix it. After all, it's never too late to fix a broken book.
RELATED EPISODES:
A Play-by-Play Breakdown of How Tim Ferriss Launches a Book
What You NEED If You Don't Want Your How-To Book to Fail
Jay Abraham on Applying Lessons From Other Industries to a Book Launch
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
October 2, 2022
How Authors Can Avoid Getting Sued with Maria Riegger
Many authors are afraid of getting sued.
Many authors are confused about copyright. (It's legit confusing.)
Many authors don't know that they should establish an LLC.
That's why author and attorney Maria Riegger's advice and suggestions were so useful.
In this episode, we talked about how to copyright your book, the risks of writing about someone you know and the importance of setting up an LLC, among many other things.
She's also written a book, Legal Issues Authors Must Consider, that's entirely focused on these topics.
So dig into this episode. And protect yourself!
RELEVANT LINKS:
RELATED EPISODES:
The Business of Being a Writer with Jane Friedman
Can I Get Sued for Writing About Someone?
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
September 28, 2022
"My First Launch" (Round Table!)
Oh, wait a treat this one is!
Here you're getting four for the (free!) price of one: a round table interview with four of my clients at ONCE: Barbara Legere, Tamar Hermes, Chris Joseph and Lauren Schwarzfeld on the anxieties and excitement of their first book launch.
Only listen if you want to hear the disparate experiences authors have on their first book launch!
RELEVANT LINKS:
RELATED EPISODES:
Samantha Perkins on the Anxiety of Launching Your First Book
Chris Joseph on Publishing a Book About His Recovery From Cancer
TRANSCRIPT:
Anna David: Here we are with the very first and potentially last roundtable podcast interview. I'm so excited to interview you four. And listeners, I'm sure I told you this in the intro, but this is a bit of an experiment. I've never done this before. I've already told you in the intro about this fabulous group I'm working with. And we're just going to kind of all do like a group interview. Everyone’s going to be chiming in at different points. We just lost one. I'm sure that was an accident and she will be right back. So, I didn't tell any of them until just now really, that the focus is going to be on book launches and what's interesting is we've got two people in this group that have launched their books and two people who are going to launch their books. So it's kind of an amazing perspective! You can hear what worked from somebody who launched a book over a year ago, what worked according to somebody who just launched a book last week, if she does come back, and then what these two other lovely guests are planning. So let's start with you, Chris. Well, first of all, what was the most surprising aspect of publishing a book?
Chris: Oh, my book was published in September of 2020. And to me, even now, a year and a half later, it's the gift that keeps on giving. And I didn't know that when I was thinking about even writing it or publishing it, that it would continue to be a gift even a year and a half later. So that's probably the most surprising thing.
Anna David: How is it a gift?
Chris: You know, I've never been an athlete, a professional athlete or anything like that. But when you win a championship, no one can ever take that away. When you write a book and publish a book, no one can ever take that away. I think it's a huge accomplishment.
Anna David: Oh, I love that. That's music to my ears. Listeners, no I didn't pay him to say that at all. So what was the most effective thing you did for your launch?
Chris: So I'm going to speak in two levels, macro and micro. On the macro level, what I learned is that marketing your book is just as much work and it needs to be just as much work as it was writing that book. You can't just write the book and put it out into the universe and think that everyone's going to love what you wrote and think, oh, this is great. I mean, you know, there's a tiny chance that could happen but I knew it wasn't going to happen with me. I had to hustle. And I'm still hustling a year and a half later. So I think the two biggest things that I did were the Advanced Review Team, which I learned from you. And getting 30, 40 or 50 people, I can't remember the exact number now, to read the book in advance and post their review on Amazon so their view would be up on Amazon the day my book was launched. And they were writing really nice reviews. That was really great. That really helped propel the book, to some number one lists. It brought awareness of “hey, yeah, it's the number one book.” So I would say that was the first thing and the second thing was pitching myself to podcasts. I knew that I had a good story about my cancer journey. But people didn't know I had a good story. So I would call people, I would email people. And to me, it was just about hustle. A lot of hustle.
Anna David: I should mention that Chris has already been on this show before. So if you haven't listened to his episode before, you better go back. I'll link to it in the show notes. Lauren, we're going to give you a break since you disappeared. But normally, I would go to you next because we were talking about how basically, you guys have had books out and these other two guests haven’t. So I'm going to give you a minute to think about what was the most some what's the most surprising thing about launching a book. Actually, I'm just going to jump in. You tell me what was the most surprising thing.
Lauren: Surprising, like having your internet go out the second you're about to answer a podcast question? I think it's surprising how many people actually are really nice, decent, sweet and supportive. I think I think we see a lot of nonsense on the internet of people being jerks. And I was really surprised by how incredibly supportive so many people are. The offers that I got too-like I was featured as a local businesswoman on my friends Instagram page. I blog for a local parenting blog and they were really supportive and offered to have a feature on that site. People that I'm friends with on Facebook and Instagram who I don't necessarily know, super, super well in real life have been so supportive and offering to make introductions and do Instagram lives and things like that. The support from people that I wasn't necessarily expecting, I think was really encouraging.
Anna David: Yeah, I will say, and I don't mean to be Nancy negative, but after your first book, it goes down. People are so excited on your first book and on the second they’re like, "That's cool.” But they're like, whatever.
Lauren: I also kept it under wraps a little bit. So when it came out there was like an element of surprise.
Anna David: Yeah. And that is also what I recommend. People make a big deal about well, “can I post my cover?” And it's like, yeah, but people really won't care until it's out. I actually love the way you launched it because you listened to me. You basically were like, I've got something coming and then on launch day, you said you sent out a newsletter, and you were like, here's my thing. I thought that was like, very, very well done. So what would you say? I know, it was less than a week ago. But could you say what was the best thing, the most successful launch strategy you employed? Too soon to tell?
Lauren: In terms of successful as like long term results, probably too soon to tell. But I think there were two things that I did. One was putting together kind of like gathering people pre-launch. And so I did that two different ways. I had an advanced reader team who read the book in advance, which, from an emotional standpoint was really helpful for me because it felt very vulnerable to just sort of be putting this book out there. So to know that there were a bunch of people who had already read it and who weren't horrified and that made it easier to envision launch day. Then, because my book will also be sort of tied in with the coaching program that I run, I did this like pre-book launch coaching experience with a small group of people. So, that was also really helpful in sort of crafting both the coaching program and also the key pieces of the book because it gave really good feedback in terms of people who were reading the book for the purpose of like making changes and using it as a stepping point. So, it gave really, really great feedback to kind of know how to tailor the launch and what people wanted to hear from it.
Anna David: Yeah, I should mention, the book is called “Unboxed: “Essays on Learning to Trust Myself to Stop Doing the Things I Hate.”
Anna David: And Chris Josephs book is called “Life is a Ride: My Unconventional Journey of Cancer Recovery.” So fabulous. So, we're going in chronological order, which means Barbara, you are next. What would you say? Well, what are you most scared of in terms of launching the book?
Barbara: Negative reviews.
Anna David: You’re not going to!
Barbara: Yeah, I think I'm not as scared as I was at first. I was I was afraid people would judge me for some of the things I said in the book and I was concerned about that. But then I realized, you know what, I don't care. I really don't. The worst thing that could possibly happen to me has already happened. You know, anything else that happens from this point forward is really pretty minute.
Anna David: Yeah. And that is what the book is about. It will be out by the time you guys hear this, and it's called “Kevin's Choice: A Mother’s Journey Through Her Son’s Mental Illness, Addiction and Suicide.”
Anna David: It always feels crass for me to transition from saying that to like, let's talk about marketing. But at least listeners, she's smiling. Let's quickly talk about your blurb experience. So you had the dream blurber, you were like, “I'll never get him, there's no way.” Then, what happened?
Barbara: He said yes! And now I have his blurb on the front cover of my book. I just decided, you know what, I'm going to ask. The worst thing that can happen is he won't do it. And he did. He said yes, he was so gracious and kind and it blew my mind. I'm so grateful.
Anna David: So what was the process? So it's David Sheff who wrote this famous book called “Beautiful Boy.” You just found his email address and you wrote him?
Barbara: I follow him on Twitter. And we've kind of chatted back and forth a couple times over the course of me writing the book. So I wasn't a complete unknown to him. I was somebody that he had talked to, I mean, not talk but chat online with. So, I just said, my book is done now and I just asked him, if he'd like to read the manuscript. I didn't even ask him for a blurb. I think he just assumed that I was asking him. I just said, “would you like to read the manuscript?” And next thing I knew he had read it and sent me a beautiful blurb for the cover.
Anna David: Quickly, because I remember you telling me that and then the blurb arrived. So, he clearly read the book quickly. And he said, I have to read it first or whatever,
Barbara: He said he wanted to read it, yeah.
Anna David: I will say, I think it's cool to talk about this. Then, another person who blurbed it had suggestions, which is something that in general, as the publisher, I'm just like, oh, my god, please. But I thought his suggestions were good. So, we actually went back, even though the book was done and made changes as a result of the blurb or suggestions. And you were grateful for that, you thought those were good?
Barbara: Very grateful because he's someone I really respect and I wanted to take his professional opinion. My dogs are crazy in the background, sorry!
Anna David: Okay, so we'll move on to Tamar. So Tamar, what are you most excited about when it comes to your release?
Tamar: Well, I can't get past the dogs! So anyone that's watching live is going to be enjoying this party of pups in the back. What am I most excited about? I am most excited that I wrote the book. It is known that 81% of people want to write books and how many percent actually do it? Okay, so hooray for us, right? I mean, we did it and for me, it was, can I do something hard? Can I do something that is in my in my heart that I really want to share? So, let's look at Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan's book, “The Gap and The Gain.” I'm going live in the gain on this one and say I wrote the book. So that's what I'm most proud of. So I’ve already won.
Anna David: I like it. So now, does anybody want to chime in? Especially those of you with all your experience and some advice from the old timers to those coming up on their launches?
Tamar: You want other people to chime in on that?
Anna David: Yeah, I'm going to have Chris chime in on it, you and Barbara.
Chris: Barbara, you said you're worried about whether people will give negative reviews. What I've learned about memoir, I told my story. I didn't use my book to tell other people what they should do. And I'm guessing yours is the same way. It's your story. It's your very powerful story. No one's going to argue with your very powerful story. They may not like it. It may not be for them. Maybe they're too afraid. But no one's going to give you a bad review. No.
Anna David: No one’s going to give you a bad review. And I say this as someone who's gotten lots of bad reviews over time. I just don't think they will. So anybody want to chime in? I had one more question for Tamar right now unless anybody wanted to chime in. Tamar, I have some inside information and I hope it's cool that I bring this up because everybody goes through it. This idea of tinkering with the manuscript under this delusion that if we change the word “the” to “an” on page 76, it's going to make all the difference between success and failure. Do you want to talk about that?
Tamar: Yes, I have had a lot of challenges with realizing that the book is going out into the world and that people are going to look at it. Hopefully more people than I imagined, which means more eyeballs on me. And it does make me feel a little bit self-conscious in terms of my content and the way that it's written and wanting to make sure that it's as good as it can be. So I have had this issue with feeling like it's just never done. There is a point where you have to put it away and move it on to the next phase.
Anna David: And we should mention, tomorrow's book is called, “The Millionaire's Mentality. Subtitle?
Tamar: “A Professional Woman's Guide to Building Wealth Through Real Estate.”
Anna David: I will mention, as the publisher of all of these books, and the fact that I can't say one subtitle, I don't remember the subtitles for any of my books either. So that is that is just being 51. I don't know. I've never been good at that. So Barbara, Lauren, Chris, do you relate to what Tamar's talking about?
Chis: Can I jump in? I totally can relate. I but I kept my eye on the goal of releasing the book and I kept remembering also that perfect is the enemy of good and my book is never going to be perfect. It was never going to be perfect. So, I'm sure your book is great. But that doesn't mean it's perfect.
Anna David: Lauren, Barbara?
Lauren: So I went through this process of sort of recognizing and I because I think I've been on a lot of advanced reader teams for books that you've released, I also know that no matter how many people look at a book, there's always going to be typos, there's going to be things like the words are flipped. A couple of months ago, sort of as I was processing this, I wrote a blog post about stop taking people's grammar and just listen to what they're actually saying. That was my internal processing of this idea that yes, I am going to put this thing out into the world and it might not be as perfectly grammatically correct as my high school English teacher would want. And things might not be exactly as they should be but it's going to be exactly as I intend the words to be heard. And that just has to be enough.
Anna David: So the thing about typos is, even if it goes through four or five edits, the human eyes do a thing where we fill in words. I think that's the biggest problem, which is why we now do a thing at Launch Pad, where we have the final editor listen to it out loud because that's how you can find those things. But I will say, and listener, oh my god, please take this. None of you guys did this. What happens is, when we say give it to your advanced reader team and have them be on the lookout for typos, sometimes people's husbands, best friends, cousins, their inner writer will come out. And they're part of that, whatever, 67%, I can't do math, that isn't writing the book but wants to. Suddenly they have all these ideas and all this feedback and all the things that you did wrong and your publisher did wrong. That is the bane of my existence. So I do think when giving it to people being very clear about if you see typos, let me know. But please don't tell me if you think that chapter three should be chapter seven. It's just irrelevant. Does anyone want to say anything?
Chris: I had one of my people on my advanced readers team do exactly that. He chimed in with saying, “Why are you starting the book with you getting diagnosed with cancer?” You should save that.
Anna David: In his book, if that's his story, he can.
Chris: Right. I ignored it. I ignored it.
Tamar: Not to change the subject about this but also because you had asked about what we're doing for launches. So, I did want to say that it has been challenging in terms of what Chris said, when you start the book, there's a whole component of once the book is done of the marketing piece and I repel the marketing. I just feel like I don't want to get stuck in the nuances. One of the things that you and I have discussed even is just making sure your back end is ready. So for me, my book is a bit of a business card. It shows the skills that I have and will likely lead to some clients. So, I need to make sure that all my funnels are done and my website looks right. That has been something you know, you don't want to put the book out in the world and then someone goes to look you up and you just don't have anything to offer or it's not organized or it's not clear what you're offering. So I think that that's a really important piece and it has been challenging that those kinds of details are not my favorite, even hiring them out has been a challenge. So it's just that I guess, with everything that we want to do, there's always components that are more challenging that we have to shove ourselves through to get to the other side.
Anna David: It's like what we're doing? Are we decided on that quiz-you're going to have the book lead to a quiz? So anybody listening, what is the quiz?
Tamar: The quiz is a personality quiz that will enable you to determine what sort of real estate investing is best for you. And you can actually get it on Bitly.com. Take the personality quiz.
Anna David: I see. And so a lot of times what we'll do with books, Chris, and Lauren, we did I think this for both of you, we put the QR code. I know we just did it for Lauren. Chris, we did that with you, where we put a QR code, and it leads to something?
Chris: No, I don't think we did.
Anna David: I don't think we did. I don't think then that we were doing that actively. But you know, we'll do that and we'll put a QR code. Sometimes if you put it at the beginning of your book, even people who are browsing through and not going to buy your book will do it. I did do a podcast episode about this but Pat Flynn did that. He had a QR code at the end of every single chapter and it led to a free course and the course was obviously totally related to the book. From that free course, he sold a paid course and apparently he made $300,000 just from that audience. So, there are definitely ways to do that. But you know, some people are using the book to funnel people onto a newsletter list. Some people have a newsletter list and they're using that to get readers. It's all it's all part of the same soup. And you know, and my constant message is-and Chris really is a testament to that-is like it doesn't end in launch week, it just it's there forever. So okay, we have to get close to wrapping up. How fun is this roundtable? Just fun for me? I don't know. I think listeners are having fun. We're going to go around and say your best advice for somebody who is either planning to launch a book, or thinking about writing a book or writing a book. You go first, Chris.
Chris: Start writing. Just start writing and keep writing and even if it's lousy at first. Keep writing every day. That’s the best advice I can give.
Anna David: And Chris, you wrote your book in three months?
Chris: Three months. Started in March of 2020 and finished the first draft in June 2020.
Anna David: Yeah, that was crazy. And the truth of the matter is that when you told me it was done, I was like, oh, dear God, what is this thing going to be? And it was so good. I was shocked. I was shocked because you wrote it so fast and it was your first book.
Chris: Thank you.
Anna David: Okay, Lauren, what is your one bit of advice?
Lauren: I think for launch week, you just have to say the things. You just have to talk. You have to put yourself out there. It's the thing that I needed the most pep talks around because it's the thing that is least comfortable for me. The writing part is the part where I like to sit in front of my laptop and do the writing part. The part where I'm actually putting myself out there and talking about it and promoting it, I don't even know if the word is actually promoting it, but sharing it feels very awkward to me. So, figuring out a way to do that in a way that feels good or more comfortable is really important in that launch week.
Anna David: Did it get easier? Is it getting easier?
Lauren: Yeah, it did get easier. I mean, I think I'm sort of an awkward person in general. So when I say things I try to not make myself less awkward than I naturally am. But it did. I feel like I tailored the way I did things to who I am. I think we all know people who have had a really, really successful book launches and if I were to try to emulate the way they did them based on having very different personalities, it wouldn't read properly. I just read a book about how to be your own person and not do the things other people expect of you. So to then have a launch where I'm doing it as if someone else had done it, felt like it would have been inauthentic.
Anna David: That's great advice. Yeah, if Marie Forleo did a Beyonce like concert, it would have been crazy.
Lauren: That would have been strange. That would not have translated.
Anna David: Okay, Barbara, I know you haven't gotten there yet but what's your advice for anyone writing or launching a book?
Barbara: First of all, I want to apologize for my dogs. But I would say for me joining a writing group really, really helped. It had accountability. I show up every day for an hour and I write and the support and encouragement and people that had more experience and have written other books have given a lot of their insight. I've learned so much just from being part of that writing group. The other thing is what Chris said, I mean, you just have to sit down and write and not edit yourself as you're going, just let it all come out and know that you're going to go back to the beginning. And then you can add, edit, and tweak it or whatever. But for me, just getting it all written out first was what helped the most.
Anna David: Great advice. Tamar?
Tamar: I would say, obviously, all the feedback from the other wonderful guests I would agree with. I will add that taking it step by step and chunking it down really helps in every step of the process. I think it helps with the book, it helps with the launch, even now with this advanced reading, you've got to get people to read your book in advance, you've got to get people on your list, there’s steps to take and it's easy to get overwhelmed. Overwhelmed leads to paralysis and we don't do anything. So I would say chunk it down. I mean, even if it's even if you commit to writing one hour a day, then you just write one hour a day. Eventually it'll get done. Or with the launch, when I look at all the things that need to be done, I say okay, “what's the biggest priority?” Okay, I have to get the funnel done. So, then I get the funnel done. Then, I moved to the next. Then, well, I'm not tinkering around between “the” and “an.” I do that.
Anna David: Um, well fantastic. You guys, thank you so much for being my roundtable. It makes me want to do this all the time. Listeners, please just go grab the show notes. I'll say whatever the link is in the intro, but get these wonderful books by these wonderful people who have given you advice I'm sure you can relate to and that's it. I will see you next week. You’ll hear me next week.
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
September 21, 2022
How to Make Your Book Into a Podcast with Jeremy Enns
Jeremy Enns is the founder of Podcast Marketing Academy, the only growth-focused podcast education platform for experienced creators, brands and marketers looking to build long-term, sustainable audience growth systems.
We met five years ago at the World Domination Summit in Portland and I've followed his work religiously ever since. I've had other guests on before to talk about how authors can get booked on podcasts but I wanted to bring him on to talk about how authors can turn their books into podcasts (think Tim Ferriss' Tools of Titans).
In this episode, we talked about why you don't just want to make your podcast a rehash of your book but more a jumping off point, a way you could release a podcast while writing your book, thereby making your listeners into beta readers of sorts and how the way to be successful in a book-to-podcast transition is to have a strong thru-line.
RELEVANT LINKS:
Jeremy made a special link for you with goodies so GRAB THAT HERE
RELATED EPISODES:
How to Get on Podcasts to Promote Your Book with John Corcoran
How to Set Up an Author Podcast Tour with Alex Sanfilippo
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
September 14, 2022
The Big Mistake You Need to Avoid with Craig Stanland
Boy, does Craig Stanland have a story to tell.
It starts with the FBI knocking on his door, followed by two years in prison.
But that's not really what we delve into here. Instead we talk about the book he wrote on his experience—and the one major mistake he made.
Now that he's at work on book number two (title TBD—we get into that in the conversation), he's approaching everything differently.
Find out about that, as well as how he's planning to use videos to launch his next book, in this episode.
RELEVANT LINKS:
RELATED EPISODES:
The 7 Biggest Mistakes First-Time Authors Make
How to Set Up an Author Podcast Tour with Alex Sanfilippo
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE OR CLICK HERE TO GET THE POD ON ANY PLATFORM
September 7, 2022
Why All Authors Need to Start Their Newsletter List NOW with Holly Darling
Holly Darling is the owner of Holly Darling HQ, a business that focuses on helping authors create and implement their email marketing strategies to sell more books and build their brand loyalty.
In other words, she was the perfect person for me to interview about why you need to start your author newsletter list now—and the most effective ways to do that.
In this episode, we talked about so many things, including but not limited to: which newsletter provider is the best one to start with (hint: it's not Mailchimp), average open rates (and why open rates have been inflated lately), why to be vulnerable in your emails, how and why to split test, whether or not you should re-send emails to subscribers who don't open, where you should put your newsletter sign up in your book and finally why it's great to not have many subscribers.
In other words, actionable AF.
So dig in. And take action!
RELEVANT LINKS:
Holly's Welcome Sequence in a Weekend course
Holly's Mailerlite for Authors course
TRANSCRIPT:
Anna David: So here we go. Thanks for being here, Holly.
Holly: Thanks for having me, Anna!
Anna David: So let us talk about newsletter list. I just had Jane Friedman on the podcast, she said it's the number one thing authors need. I would say anecdotally; it's the number one thing authors are reticent to start doing. You are an expert. What do you think?
Holly: Well, it always strikes me as funny when authors are hesitant to write newsletters until I remember the reasons that I've gathered over the years. But yeah, I think that newsletters are the single best way to build brand loyalty, create conversions, get data to drive new business-making decisions. And just to basically connect with your readers, regardless of the genre that you write, regardless of how many books you have written or are thinking of writing. Newsletters are data that you own. But also, we're storytellers, by nature, if you're writing a book, whether it's fiction or nonfiction. We can talk and we can talk with words. So why not use that medium, right?
Anna David: Yeah, I do think it's looking at it as another creative outlet, rather than oh, my God, this thing I have to do.
Holly: Yeah, it's an extension of your voice. Once I work with authors, and they kind of see the vulnerability piece like, I don't want somebody to unsubscribe. It feels icky if I'm selling or all these things. When we create strategies that just eliminate those, it really is fun and you can get right into it as an extension of who you are and what you want to teach people or entertain people with or anything like that.
Anna David: Okay, so the number one question, how do you start? How do you get those first subscribers?
Holly: The unfortunate reality of first subscribers is always is friends and family to start with before anybody really kind of knows you. As far as who do you ask - even before that, I always say there's a conscious decision. And for me it's got to be something they decide whether they're going to make social media their hub, I call it their hub, or their list their hub. And I am obviously in favor of making your list your hub. That just makes it easy for all conversations, whether marketing, or one-to-one or speaking engagements. Come to my website, join my list. If you're just moving all things in that direction, then it's not hard to remember to do that, right? Like, oh, well, I have a Facebook page and I have an Instagram page and I have a list - it gets lost. But lists are data that you own. If you think about that conversion, not just in terms of revenue, but in terms of the ability to connect with somebody with a traceable footprint, lists being the first point of entry to your brand is always a good idea. However, when you're first starting, it's completely intimidating and terrifying. There's the technical stuff and then there's the marketing piece, right? So, getting started without any followers, you have to be comfortable with having 10 people on your list for a little while and thinking of it as a marketing experiment. Like, I'm going to take these 10 people and I'm going to test a lot of theories out on them. Or I'm going to try some stuff and see what works.
Holly: But then there are different ways that you can grow those 10-20. Some ways are easier than others. They would be lead magnets so you could create something that holds value for your readers. And in fiction that can be short stories, previews, downloadables. In nonfiction, I think it's easier because it’s downloadables or educational content. But my one piece of advice is to start now, whether you're published or not. And that way you're spending some time getting data and testing things, but also building that brand loyalty. In the fiction world, they can become arc readers. So advanced reader copies and they are the ones that will be your sales team because they have grown with you. And if you're if you are brave and vulnerable and talk about that journey with them, they're rooting for you and they'll reply to you and ask you if they can help. That small little group of people that you start out with can become invaluable. So those low those small numbers that feel insignificant and feel sometimes embarrassing, like, oh, I only have 100 people on my list. Oh my gosh, those are the times that you can do so much with those 100 people as opposed to having 50,000 and you have a whole new set of problems connecting with people. So, yeah, I don't know if I answered your question.
Anna David: You did! I think that's really important. First of all, your open rates are going to be a million times better, which is really the number that that matters the most. So many people lie about their numbers because I cannot tell you how many people I talk to you and I go, “Oh, how big is your list?” And they say, “pretty small, like 10?” And I'm like, oh, they mean, 10 people? No - 10,000. I don’t believe you. People are lying. We don't know. I think they are.
Holly: We don’t know but it's against like that vanity metric, right? That people are like, well, if I say I only have 1000, they will think I'm less of an author or less of a speaker. But I mean, I've had 10,000, reduced that list to 2000 and then regrown again and then gone back to that because it's all about the quality of your list, not the quantity of the list.
Anna David: 100%. So what would you say is a good open rate? I know it depends on the number of people on your list. But what do you say?
Holly: So, it does depend on a whole bunch of things. But if you're looking at across the board averages, I would say, averages are somewhere between 20 and 22. Now they feel like more like 30 to 45 with somewhat inflated open rates due to the Apple privacy policy. But different industries have higher rates. The entertainment industry has a higher open rate. Food and accommodation has a higher open rate. It just really depends on the audience that you're reaching. But most people that I work with land realistically - and I say that because of the inflation that is being seen now since September - somewhere between 25 and 35 is kind of where most people sit. But again, thinking about the click rate that goes along with it. So the open rate is the first point of entry important metric to kind of keep an eye on. Then, once you start to have something to kind of offer them or you have a call to action, that click rate becomes very important as well. So where did they both kind of average out? But yeah, people get upset. I had an open rate of 15%. I'm like, okay, let's figure out why and what happened. Maybe you've sent an email to everybody on your list. Typically, if you have larger lists, that will give you a lower open rate but it's not the end of the world. It's just data.
Anna David: Exactly. This is what it's what I've sort of observed in the last couple years: it feels like people got burned out on lead magnets. And a lot of times, I can also say anecdotally myself, I'm more likely to sign up because they describe what's in the newsletter and that looks interesting to me. Where do you stand on that?
Holly: I think the lead magnet has to solve a problem. It has to be communicated clearly. But just assuming that having the word “free” in there is going to convert into a registration is a recipe for not getting a great conversion. I think clarity is what sells. I mean, especially in the nonfiction space, it just kind of goes right by their eyes, like that word free either feels like spam or it feels like yeah, whatever. They really need to connect with you and that's what it's all about. Inside of the newsletter, I think needs to follow up with that connection but also needs to deliver that more importantly than the downloadables. Because I can count maybe on one hand how many times have actually used the downloadable that I've gone somewhere to get. But I've thought that that downloadable would solve a problem but in reality, it's the person delivering it and the value that they send in the newsletter. To follow up with that really has no bearing on whether I continue to subscribe or unsubscribe. So lead magnets I think are due a bit of a change you as far as what they are and how they work. But again, it's all about testing, right? If you see that you're not getting those conversions, then try something different. Lead magnets don't always equal people signing up for your list.
Anna David: One thing I'm doing now is, I have one page, that's just this is what is in this bestselling book bulletin and one that is, here is how you do an elevator pitch - you'll get this download. Just to have one actionable and one just to promote. They both attract people but I found with a lead magnet, it’s actionable. Give somebody something so they can get a quick win that you want the dopamine rise from.
Holly: Yeah, exactly. I like video. I like something where they can see your face, where they can make that trust decision. Or something they don't have to print out because it's like, a lot of people don't have printers. But yeah, what can you give them that actually moves them forward in the journey and the reason why they came to you in the first place? Don't make them do more work, make it easy but also make it clear.
Anna David: So nurture sequence is another thing that I have somewhat abandoned because I got so sick of them from other people. 6 things that all follow the same format. I do like two or one. Where do you stand on the nurture sequence and explain what a nurture sequence is?
Holly: Yeah, so a nurture sequence is just a follow up email or series of emails that come to your subscriber after they have joined your list. I love a nurture sequence but I don't love a random nurture sequence that just pushes things down like, buy this, buy this, buy this, buy this in the author space. You know, in fiction, it's like, “buy my book, buy my book, buy my book.” In nonfiction it's, “you need to do this and buy my course, you need to do this and buy my course, and do this and buy my program” or what have you. It feels inauthentic. It also doesn't have to be more than one email and it can be a lot of emails, it really depends. I think one mistake a lot of people make when they do add a nurture sequence into their newsletter system is that they're sending that sequence and it has a decent amount of emails in there and they're set 24 hours apart or something. Then they're also sending weekly newsletters or maybe twice a week newsletters to people, This happens a lot in the nonfiction space, where you're trying to help somebody with the regular newsletter and they're going through your nurture sequence. And then they're getting two or three emails a week and they're like, woah, too much. Sometimes they're landing boom, boom, right after each other. It’s not conducive to getting anything opened because people get overwhelmed.
Anna David: With Kajabi and Drip, they don't get your weekly until they're through the nurture. So that is something.
Holly: That’s good! But it takes remembering to manually exclude people, put them in a group and then exclude them or tag them or whatever. It's totally doable. But 9 times out of 10 it’s not done. So back to how long that could be, it depends. If you are an author with a back list, you can make it a bit longer. But I say spread the time out between those emails and make it intentional. My word for 2022 for emails is: customization. That doesn't mean that everybody gets their own email but based on their actions, so things they've clicked or done, send them something that really means something to them, that's valuable to them. In the fiction space, maybe it's a trope or a theme that comes along. Like they said, “oh, yeah, I really love political thrillers.” Then you can set a sequence up to deliver them your political thrillers. If you have nothing to offer them, like you're just kind of new and you're starting out, a welcome sequence can be one email, like, “thanks for signing up.” I would love a video at least so they can kind of get to know you and tell them what to expect. Like, “I send weekly emails,” or “I send them every month” or whatever, so that they're not like, “what the heck is happening, who is this person?” Remind them how they got there, why they're there, and what they're going to get from that point forward. Then, stick to that. Don't slide into one way or the other - never emailing them or emailing them a couple of times.
Anna David: I'm taking notes because you're giving me so many great ideas like a video as part of that sequence. I just signed up for Bonjoro and I have this this day where I'm like, I'm going to send a personalized video to everyone who subscribes. Then I realized that's absolutely impossible, but it would be cool. If you're new and you don't have that many people subscribing every day, that seems like a good service.
Holly: Exactly. That's something again that you can do with a small list! Or you can just film a blanket general video and say, “Hey, I'm Holly, thanks for joining - whatever, whatever.” And it's pretty generalized. Again, that custom piece, you can fool around with that and see, did you get any response? People will typically reply to that so if you get nothing, then that's not worth it to continue on. Maybe I’ll try something else. Thinking again that people are reading these on mobiles, they're in a hurry. What are your own feelings about emails in your inbox? Typically, you can start with the smallest, assuming that the people joining have similar feelings, maybe not the exact same, but they might be overwhelmed or reading in a hurry, only want short emails, don't want something that goes on and on and on forever. Or they don't have the time to upload a video so you got to make sure that that upload time is good. All these things you have to think about when you're trying to make a decision. I always say, head to your own inbox and see what's happening there. What do you like and what don’t you like? Try to use that for inspiration.
Anna David: Yeah. Except something like, I hate emojis in newsletters. I don't know why. I think it's some weird OCD thing. I see it and it gets upsetting to me on the subject line. However, I hear emojis are great in the subject line. What about little tricks like that?
Holly: Yeah, I don't use emojis very often. But same thing, funny enough, when I see when it stops me. So it depends. Overuse of anything tends to not be a great idea. So, you could split test it. You have one subject line for part of your list and another use the same email and give them a different subject line. It's easy sometimes as one subject line with an emoji and one without and see if one of them gets opened more often than the other. Then, you have your answer, whether you disliked them or not. Then I would say use them sporadically, right? Only for emails that are super important that you can get a call to action going that equals revenue typically is when I will pull out some of the big stops. But subject lines are a whole workshop in and of themselves. Thinking along the lines of there are things that you shouldn't put in subject lines that will have you flagged as spam right away, such as the word “free,” lots of exclamation marks, really, really, really long subject lines, things that use the word “you.” Like, “Hey you,” those kinds of things. And the words change all the time. It's really impossible to keep track of them. But there are those are some of the key things that typically will get you sent right into the spam folder, especially as a new author who hasn't really got their deliverability rates up and running.
Holly: My but my biggest thing was subject lines is keeping a subject line file of those that you like inside your inbox. Oh, that was cool, I like that. File it for inspiration. Try to figure out a way to use it that works for your brand. Don't overuse emojis, punctuation, capitalization, but try things that aren't really being done. President Obama once sent an email that just said, “Hey,” and I'm like, well, that was weird. But I opened it and so then I started experimenting with “Hey,” and if it works. But again, not overusing it and thinking about if I was sending an email to a friend, what would my subject line be? I struggle with subject lines to friends all the time, especially I don't want to say like, open this up or whatever. But then sometimes maybe I'll use that for my newsletter: “open this up.” Or if you can ask them a leading question like, I can't believe this happened. Or, did you see the news? Anything that is the question that leaves them hanging like, well I want to know what that is. Those are often really good as a plain sentence structure. Some people like to use all lowercase, it feels very friendly like if I'm sending something to a friend, I tend not to capitalize and punctuate and that feels friendly. You can use personalization. I don't often use it but some experts swear by it where you insert their first name into the email. But again, all of these things are things you can try. I highly recommend most email service providers offer you the ability to AB test your subject line. So you can put a couple in, let it run for a couple hours and see what happens.
Anna David: That's great. Do you recommend resending to people who don't open a couple days later?
Holly: It depends. I'll do that only for what I call revenue generating emails. So if there's a call to action in there that I really want things to happen, like your book launch, you've got to preorder or you're appearing somewhere where there's ticket sales. Or there's something happening that you can visibly track an ROI on the click that happens there. I'll resend on opens with the knowledge that 20% of open rates is often non reliable because it's come from an iOS user, where they're flagged as open no matter what. So it's hard to know if they really have opened it. Then sometimes they'll get duplicates if they haven't opened it. But again, a way around that is just make sure it's a completely different subject line. Even go so far as to change like the top entry line, the salutation or something inside the email. Then if they do happen to open both, there's a bit of a different feel there. And they're not seeing them stack up in their inbox, I know some authors that consistently do this with every single email, and now they've trained me to not open the first email because I know it’ll come again and you don't want to do that. So, yeah, I think they're important, but don't think they’re ‘use it every email’ important.
Anna David: In terms of deliverability, do you think on the original email, the first one saying, hey, write me back with blah, so that you're training their inbox to not ever recognize it as spam. Do you think that's important?
Holly: It is important but it's really hard to get that call to action to happen. So the response and then your response again closing the loop is ultimately kind of a gold star in deliverability. However, it's hard to happen. So sometimes I'll put a block, or sorry, a button. Instead of a link behind the button, I'll use the code, “mailto:” and then my email address. And then if they click that button, it automatically brings up their email sending out box and autofills your email address in there. You can even write some more code if you wanted to, that has a subject line ready for them and all that. So making it really easy but also kind of leading them right to that button that you put, it works well.
Anna David: I love it. So, you said early on to sort of pick your lane. Are you going to do social media? Are you going to do newsletters? What if you want to do both?
Holly: Yeah, I do both. But everybody that knows me over on my social channels knows that if they want to get more information, they need to be on the list. So it's a constant conversation that's being had over on social media. Let's say like, for instance, on Facebook, it would be you know, the button goes to my landing page that to join the list. The lead magnet offer is there. If it's on tick tock, the link is heading to a landing page where they can join. Those are intentional pathways that I've set up and every so many social media posts is, “are you on the list? Today they got this lesson.” I'm also a fictional author. So in that it's, join my list to get this book free. It’s in the rotation and it's not every day, but it is there. On pinned posts there's: join the list, click this link, get the lead magnet, blah, blah, blah.
Anna David: Instagram now allows pins posts.
Holly: Yes! So, it’s part of the conversation. My LinkedIn bio is definitely to a landing page to get a downloadable. It's just part of my intention. I don't think you need to do one or the other. I think they can complement each other. However, I think lists are much more effective at selling and socials are much more effective or can be as effective at educating.
Anna David: Oh god, I had an important question but then I got distracted with this. Here's my important question: do you think if you're going to do one link, it's more important to get them on your list or to get them to your book?
Holly: List because you can continue to sell to them as your back list grows, as you write more things, as you make appearances. I'm a big fan of getting them on the list. The first email in a welcome sequence can do some work like, if you want to purchase the book, here it is, blah, blah, blah. Conversion rates on lists are in the 20 to 30% range, on average, but conversion rates on social media, when you want to sell them something are typically less than 1%, with the outliers that that have kind of gone there. It's just such a more reliable space where you own the process, you own the visibility, and you own what happens after.
Anna David: In terms of live appearances, do you recommend having a place where they can physically write down their names and email addresses? Or is there a better way to do that?
Holly: It definitely works. Or you can use technology and you can have something pre-planned. When I do speaking events, they have their own little landing page. It depends on how the conference is set up. If you're at a conference then usually the organizers have some sort of tech deliver going on during speaking events like, here's the slides, here is a coupon code, here is how to join their list. When I'm doing like book signings or things like that live, I usually would have an iPad there with the landing page. Then I know it’s legal. I’ve got everything kind of working. But you can do a very standard pen and paper, as long as you get the right pieces of information and the consent that you need. I don't think you should be without an ask to a list, regardless of where you're at.
Anna David: Yeah, even at the grocery store and Starbucks.
Holly: Yeah.
Anna David: Well, fantastic. Is there anything I haven't asked you about email lists that you'd love to share? Oh, what about putting a sign up in your book? Always? And do you want it in the front?
Holly: Oh, I have it in both front and back. Not everybody does. So, I have it in the front with a different offer, different landing page. And I'm like, oh, wow, you love my book so much you signed up for my list before you even read it. That’s just in case they never get back to the rest of the book. Then I have it right after the end. I know that sometimes there's previous chapters, sometimes there's this, that and the other thing, but again, thinking that this is my hub, that's where I want everybody to go. I will move them onto my list right away at the end in the back matter. I also track that in the list and I track their behaviors but they also get a little special something for having read the whole book and then joining the list so I can see where they came in as well. It's important.
Anna David: I love it. And of course with nonfiction, it can definitely be get the glossary, get the cheat sheets, whatever it is that will enhance their experience of having read the book.
Holly: Yeah, as long as it connects to what they've just read, there's typically a really great pick up on that bonus content.
Anna David: In terms of platforms, do you think MailChimp is the easiest one to start with?
Holly: MailChimp feels like it's the easiest one to start with because they've done a really great job at marketing and making that name synonymous with email marketing. However, in the past few years, there have been some changes that MailChimp that I think don't make them the best choice for brand new authors. I know that MailerLite has a free service under 1000 subscribers. The big difference between them, especially for those new to email lists, is the service. With MailChimp, when you're at the free space, you don't get any customer service or assistance with something. With a program like MailerLite, they do offer all the customer service you need with their free program under 1000 and all full automations, full everything, with the exception of a few templates, but you get to use them for a couple of weeks. With MailChimp, you have to really start to upgrade if you want to talk to anybody and get more than the basic stuff that's there. As far as integrations go, like how they integrate nicely with websites, MailChimp typically integrates with a lot of those templated websites easily. But all email service providers can do that, it just takes a few extra steps.
Anna David: If I can say anything useful today, it's avoid Drip at all costs. I nearly had 17 breakdowns during the brief time I was using Drip. I don't know if you have experience with that.
Holly: I've used them once for a client work that I was doing. But I've never personally used them.
Anna David: Sorry, one more thing I just remembered. You sort of touched on this but while working on a book, do you think absolutely share? You know, like, “hey, guys, I just started on my new book” or, “hey, I'm on chapter three,” really bringing them into the process so that they're invested?
Holly: 100%, I haven't released a book in like a year and a half, which is abnormal but the pandemic, all those kinds of things. But I have not stopped sending these letters and I just typed the end on one and sent a book off to the editor and wrote a newsletter. I've been getting replies already like, “oh, my gosh, you're back, yay, congratulations.” It doesn't have to be weekly updates but I think it should be consistent updates, like, here's where I'm at. You're getting them excited, you're getting them invested in your success. And again, when you're ready to tell them go buy the book, they are ready to buy the book, as opposed to trying to build that list and those critical times when a book comes out is when you can get the most organic lift from anything. You want to have your list start to push that a little bit.
Anna David: Okay, I love it. Now, is there anything that I've neglected to ask you that would be useful for listeners?
Holly: I don't think so. I think the biggest thing that I could say is just do it now. Don't wait, do it now. And stay consistent. You know, if you choose to write a newsletter, and you pick Tuesdays or first Tuesday of every month for a monthly newsletter, great. Stay consistent because all of these changes that you make like, oh, I have nothing to write about. But you probably always do have something you just aren't sure if it's going to work or not - just do it. But it messes with your deliverability if you keep changing things, so stay consistent. But do it. Just start doing it.
Anna David: And we should mention you help authors do this. So what if someone listening wants to find out more information about that?
Holly: Sure, you can hang out with me, my website is hollydarlinghq.com. There's lots of free stuff there. Free little mini courses, a blog and you can join my Facebook group where we talk emails every single day. We do lots of that or you can take a course, they're very non-genre specific. There are specific courses and then there are general email courses. Or you can just ask me to help you with your email strategy, which I do quite a bit.
Anna David: I love it. I'll put those links in the show notes. So thank you so much, Holly. This was so informative, so many action steps I know I'm going to take so I imagine you all will too. Thanks so much for being here.
Holly: Thanks for having me.
Anna David: And you guys, thanks for listening. Bye!
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August 31, 2022
The Secret to Getting Amazon Reviews for Your Book with Craig Tuch
Craig Tuch is doing God's work.
At least when it comes to the author who really wants Amazon reviews.
See, Tuch started a company called Hidden Gems that, among other author services, provides a way for authors to gather reader reviews for their books. As anyone who has managed an Advanced Reader Team can attest, getting people to follow through on actually writing the reviews they've promised is no simple feat. Hidden Gems to the rescue—with very reasonable prices to boot!
In this interview, Tuch broke down how he gathered a list of 15,000 avid readers who love to review, why it's good to have bad reviews and how sticky the Amazon review process can be.
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August 24, 2022
What a Book Can Do For an Entrepreneur with Rich Goldstein
Rich Goldstein is a patent attorney, speaker, host of the Innovations and Breakthroughs podcast and, most relevantly for this show, the author of the bestselling book The ABA Consumer Guide to Obtaining a Patent, which was published by the American Bar Association.
He's someone who understands through and through what a book can do for someone's business and in this episode, we got into all that as well as how writing a book changed Rich's career, why he sends a copy of the book to anyone who requests it and how writing a book could, theoretically, make an entrepreneur a cool five million.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Anna David: Rich, thank you so much for being here.
Rich Goldstein: Oh, it's my pleasure, Anna.
Anna David: So, as you know, I find you to be a delightful human being. And I don't mean to always preface it with this, but just, I don't mean for a patent attorney, but I just sort of mean, you're so much cooler and goofier and more fun than one might expect. Upon knowing the things.
Rich Goldstein: Right, and I've come to accept that, too. It's like, I have another friend who's like, always described me like, he's the coolest attorney ever. I'm like, what about the coolest guy ever? But she's like, yeah, but you just wouldn't expect that from an attorney as well. So, I've just come to like, yeah, I'm gonna call me like, cool attorney, then that's cool. I've made my peace with that.
Anna David: I like it. I mean, being the coolest guy in the world, is it's just impossible to say. But the coolest attorney like I literally think that might be true. And one of my favorite things is, we were just in Utah, this mastermind didn't, it was a little bit of like a woo-woo meets mastermind. And there was this game, you could call it that we played where you had to go around the room and say your favorite thing about yourself? And do you remember what you said about yourself?
Rich Goldstein: Oh, I actually don't.
Anna David: You said, "I'm a goofball."
Rich Goldstein: Oh, awesome.
Anna David: He got that answer right.
Rich Goldstein: Well, yeah, it's true.
Anna David: So, but we are not talking about that. What we are talking about is, is the fact that you wrote this book, and your situation was different, because the ABA came to you and said, Will you please write this? But will you tell me about that? The American Bar Association for those of you who aren't familiar with that?
Rich Goldstein: I mean, I've been a I've been a patent attorney for at this point. 28 years. And I've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs throughout my career, but there are many other patent attorneys out there, like there are over 10,000 patent attorneys, let's say in this country. So, I got a call from the American Bar Association from an editor at the American Bar Association, saying that, well, we want to do a consumer guide on patents. And we were wondering if you'd be willing to write the book. And I talked to them more about it. And like, it sounded very interesting, and, of course, an amazing opportunity. But I asked, well, kind of why me, you know? And the answer I got was, well, we look and we see that you're out there in the world, you're not just sitting behind the desk. Like on your website, you should you mentioned 28 different places that you'd been to last year, different events and conferences where you've spoken at or attended. And that's what we want in an author, someone who's really out there in the world. And it's kind of funny, because when I was out there in the world, going to all those events, a lot of times people would ask me, okay, I get that you're here, and I get that you're an attorney. And this is what the subject is. Kind of like what they're asked me is like, what's the endgame? How you gonna monetize this? How are you gonna make money from being here at this event? How it was gonna be worth your while? I didn't quite know, until I got that phone call from the American Bar Association, that it, you know, essentially, was the fact that I was out there in the world that really led towards being invited to write the ABA consumer guide to obtaining a patent, which having written that book is the best credibility ever. And it came from kind of following this path of getting out there and relating to other people, meeting people, creating relationship. Well, I didn't quite know where it was gonna go. But I guess I kind of trusted that in some way would just come back around and it did.
Anna David: And then once you had the book, did fewer people ask you what you were doing at events? Did they get like, Oh, he's the guy?
Rich Goldstein: Yeah, exactly. I mean, well, I mean, things people introduce me as that then people that know me would introduce me. Okay, this is Rich Goldstein, and he wrote the book on patents for the American Bar Association.
Anna David: That's fascinating. Because when you said there's over 10,000, well, I only know of one and I hear about all the time and I am. So that book, you got blurbed by Barbara Corcoran, Frank Kern...how did you get those blurbs?
Rich Goldstein: It's all about relationship like reaching out through my network. And it's interesting, the Barbara Corcoran one because I didn't quite know. Well, first of all my research on her showed that she kind of had some negative things to say about patent attorneys. Like she had said, it's something like, for a lot of a lot of inventors The only one who gets rich is the patent attorney. And so, you would think like, maybe that's a bad person to ask to blurb your book. But then, when I reached out to her assistant and assistant said, well, what would you want her to say about your book? I kind of came up with the fact that like, like, yeah, like, you know, the quote is here on the back of the book, it's not always wise for entrepreneurs to rush to get a patent, but they should rush to get this book to learn about patents. Learn the process, spend your money wisely, and apply for a patent that the right time and for the right reasons. So that fit exactly within have thoughts of it. And, you know, and so after having given some ideas like that, that's what came back. And again, it was great, because it came from her. And also, it fits very well and how she feels about the role that patents play that people ought to learn about the process, and not just go give money to a patent attorney. Because that might be a mistake.
Anna David: And was that just literally a cold email? Or did you know someone who connected you?
Rich Goldstein: Yeah, it was, it was a warm handoff, it was an introduction of someone that knew her assistant.
Anna David: So what we talked about in Utah was how when people read the book, they often then say to you, well, you wrote the book on it, what should I do next? How does it quote convert?
Rich Goldstein: Well, yeah, I mean, I think the when someone reads your book, you're immediately the expert. And I think like, if they found the book helpful, and they learned from the book, most of the time, it's not going to tell them, well, now I know everything there is to know. They know that they they've learned enough to know that there is a next level of understanding that there's a next level of looking at a situation and knowing well, which of these principles should I apply to my situation? And so, someone's read your book, they naturally look to you as you're the expert. And I would love to have you involved helping me with my situation, I'd love to have your take on my situation. But probably, I'd love to hire you to, to handle it.
Anna David: And so I mean, I saw on your website, it's apply for a complimentary calls, do the calls or just somebody on your team do them?
Rich Goldstein: I have someone on my team doing the call. I mean, I really, we get a lot of inquiries, and I couldn't possibly talk to everyone who was just thinking, Oh, maybe a patent would be useful. A lot of times, they need to be directed towards some type of educational resource, such as the book or videos that I've done that's on my website. But something to learn more about the process first. I would say there's a pretty high ratio of people that are potentially interested in patent to the numbers that the number that actually do something. And I know that from friends that contact me, so like just from them or friends or like, "Hey, I was thinking of patenting something, can we get on a call?" And I don't do those anymore. I refer those to my team, because it really is like 20 to one.
Anna David: I hate that personal connection where you hand it off. I have no idea how you deal with that. But it's the bane of my existence.
Rich Goldstein: Oh no, it’s taken me a long time to be okay with that. And then I just kind of realized that I'm bitter about it, when I do it totally. I'm like, I'm getting on this call. And I know this is going to be a waste of time. So, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, so I just realized, like, it's not going to serve my relationship by getting on that call. It's better if I direct them to my team, and they, you know, they've got the right attitude, they've got a better attitude than me about having someone possibly, quote unquote, waste their time. Like, they're equipped for it. They're ready for answering the questions and not leading somewhere and, you know, like, so it's actually better. But yeah, I'm totally with you on that. I've always felt obligated. When like someone comes as a personal friend or someone who came referred by a friend, and they're talking you up and saying, like, oh, yeah, you got to talk to rich, he's the rock star in this and I feel obligated. Even though all the inquiries that come through regular channels through the website through advertisements or whatever, they all go to the team they don't go to me, but somehow it felt like those personal ones I need to handle myself. I’ve learned not to.
Anna David: Okay, you should coach me because I got one this morning. And I'm like, I don't want to do this, but I should. That being said, you lovely listeners, it's so wonderful. If you're interested in hiring us, my team, this one, I always say my team is smarter than me. They're better at this than I am. So talk to them.
Rich Goldstein: And they know how to grease the chute to getting you on boarded as a client, like, I'm kind of fumbling my way through, it seems like I want to do a patent evaluation like, okay, well, let me see what information I need to get from you? Okay, I got your credit card info, oh, you know, I'm sorry, I got to call them back because I didn't get the three digit code or something like just the professionals handle it. When it comes to onboarding a new client, I am not a professional. And you know, I think that's the guiding principle.
Anna David: So this book, so because you were approached, you didn't probably even know what a good marketing tool the book was going to end up being. Or did you?
Rich Goldstein: I did. I mean, you know, like, I thought it was a little bit too good to be true, right? Like that. I'm going to be writing this book for the American Bar Association. And yeah, I mean, I've always loved marketing. And marketing has always been a big part of my business. Since I started, like, I started out in the 90s, with Yellow Page ads.
Anna David: And then I was listening to a podcast, I think it was even one of yours, where you said you had a magazine?
Rich Goldstein: I did. And it's so funny. I have it on the desk here, because it was anyway, I recently found this magazine that I was that I co published back in the 90s. It was a magazine for inventors that had articles on how you pursue the patent process and articles about like prototyping and things like that. So yeah.
Anna David: So did you go from Yellow Pages to magazine to book or and you do a lot of videos and you have your podcasts? How does it all play into itself?
Rich Goldstein: Yeah, well, let me, I'm looking for something here in this magazine. I'm just looking for the ad, there's got to be an ad for me, hang on one second. Because the thing that's interesting about the magazine is essentially, I was doing content marketing, in print form in the 90s. So I had a magazine, lots of info, the info that people are looking for, people that are my target customer. And then ultimately, they also got to see me in the magazine and call my law firm. So this was content marketing in print form in 1994.
Anna David: Ahead of his time.
Rich Goldstein: So then that evolved over time. And just to answer your question, I guess what evolved is the audience and where the audience was hanging out and what the audience was looking for. And so it was kind of like, what ties it all together. And then the book like has, I'd say, it's kind of like a dual role, where it's got its role as a content marketing piece. Like most content where people find the content that are interested in learning about it, they read up about it, gets the more interested, brings them to more with a cool middle of the funnel. And then ultimately, maybe they become a customer. But its values also just for the fact that it exists. People that never even read your book, never even possess it. Or going to recognize that you're the author of this. So there's the content marketing aspect, there's also just a straight out credibility of it.
Anna David: It's interesting, because at this mastermind, what came up was there are three reasons entrepreneurs do books. One is the sort of free plus shipping simply to get somebody on a newsletter list. One is the book. Yeah, hope nobody reads but you just get credibility as the author, and then one I call the legacy book, and it looks at it, you know, yours is more of the third, wouldn't you say? Of course.
Rich Goldstein: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's part of my personal brand is another way of say legacy, I guess. Legacy as like what they think of later on.
Anna David: Well, I mean, not to be morbid, but later on, you know, that's why I don't see any point to the first two kinds really, ever first kind, I understand. But the second kind, it's like, if you're going to put it out there, have it be the highest quality you can. That's what I said.
Rich Goldstein: No, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm a stickler for writing. Like I'm very particular by writing and I don't want anything with my name on it that's not well written.
Anna David: Do you do all of it yourself? All of it? All your writing: the magazine, the book, the blogs, everything?
Rich Goldstein: Oh, no, not all of that. But all of the book, yes. I 100% wrote the book. And the magazine was a, there was different people contributing back then. In terms of like blog and web pages, there are other people that write articles for me. And some of them, I'll be honest, some of its a little bit cringe worthy. And some of it I don't really like, and I've had to accept the fact that it's not going to be written the way that I want it to be written. And most of those pages don't even get read, they just increase the rank of my overall site. They are just part of the system that that increases the, you know, the overall positioning of the website. So I'm okay with it being kind of like, I wouldn't write it like that. I wouldn't say it for certain stuff, for other stuff, yeah. But that's been a little bit of a hurdle for me to get over is because I want everything under my name to be perfect.
Anna David: That's came up for me this morning. My podcast guests said, Well, I was looking at the transcript, and I saw that there was this error, it was the tiniest error. And I've heard it back and I go, Look, nobody reads the transcript. I'm okay with a little error being there. You can still share it. Because it's there for SEO and it works. So I remember you saying, back when you were the king of Clubhouse, we were all on Clubhouse, it would come up that you give the book to for free to anybody who wanted it. Tell me a little bit about that.
Rich Goldstein: Oh, yeah. So basically, I you know, previous to that, I had a few places where I had offered a free copy of the book. And there I would get maybe on average about 10 requests for a copy of the book that we'd fulfill per month. But then, you know, December of 2020 When I got deep into Clubhouse, and really like it was quite a ride. And he's on clubhouse like 20 hours a day. Exaggerating a little bit, but not by much. And so like just kind of like really was involved with Clubhouse. And then on my profile, I created a landing page where people could request a copy of the book. January of 2021, I got over 100 requests for a free copy of my book. And I know in that month, I think I got at least five clients from Clubhouse.
Anna David: That's a decent amount. What was I going to say? So we have to get close to wrapping up, do you think every entrepreneur should do a bug?
Rich Goldstein: I think it depends on what your sales funnel looks like. If you're doing high ticket, then absolutely, then absolutely, you should do a book. I mean, if you're I guess you have to think in terms of intended audience, maybe even if you've got something where you're building a platform, it's going to be a platform with a digital tool. And that you sell for $5.99 a month monthly recurring revenue. So maybe like it's not going to help that audience. But maybe it's going to give you credibility when you go for round the funding. Or when you go to exit your company. Whereas like, you know, the fact that you wrote the book will suddenly be the difference between maybe a $20 million exit and $25 million exit, in which case, that's $5 million for the, you know, like so there are subtle ways that it could help every entrepreneur. But I would say certainly, if you are, if you've got high ticket offers, then you absolutely should write a book.
Anna David: Well, Rich Goldstein, you're fantastic. How can people find you if they'd like to reach you?
Rich Goldstein: If you want to find out more about me, I mean, one thing you can do, I mean, if you want to learn more about patents, first of all, you can go to my website, which is Goldsteinpatentlaw.com. There are great videos there and other resources. And if you want to find out if it's a match to work together with us, then there's a way for you to set up an appointment to talk with my team. You can also check out the book is the American Bar Association consumer guide to obtaining a patent by Richard Goldstein. You can find it on Amazon. And I also have a podcast, which is Innovations and Breakthroughs, where I feature top leaders and the path they took to create change.
Anna David: I love it. Well, Rich thank you so much. And you guys thank you for listening Nate I will talk to you next week.
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