Anna David's Blog, page 24

How and Why to Publish a Book

You have a book. Or a book idea. Or just this idea that you should be an author. What now?

The first step is to understand your options. Let’s start with traditional.

How Traditional Publishing Works

If you’re interested in selling a book to a traditional publisher, here’s how it works: you’ll need to find an agent who will submit your 25-60-page book proposal to book publishers. For tips on getting an agent, see the end of this post.

Here’s what you should know going in: even if you’re signed by an agent, it's really, really, really hard to get a publishing deal today; the rough statistic is that two out of every 10,000 book proposals submitted to major publishing houses sell. It also takes a really, really, really long time for a book to see the light of day—usually a year or two between when a publisher acquires your book and when it’s released.

If a publishing company does acquire your book, however, there’s good news: they cover the costs of editing, designing and releasing. In exchange, they own the rights and make all decisions about the cover, title, release date and everything else (with your input, of course). Once they earn back your advance, you then theoretically start earning royalties (the rates vary bit it’s usually been between eight and 25% of the book sales), This is theoretical, however, because only about 25% of books ever earn out their advances.

The Reality of Traditional Publishing

The rewards of traditional publishing are undeni­able—especially if you’re published by one of the Big Five publishers. Your book is legitimized in the eyes of many and your chances of hitting bestseller lists and getting covered by the media are better.

The misconceptions people have about traditional publishing are also undeniable. Everyone I know who tells me they want to be published traditionally gives the same reasons—they want to hit the New York Times bestseller list, they want to be sent on a book tour, they want the support a big publisher provides and they want their books in stores.

Traditional publishing has changed enormously since my agent sold my first book in 2005. While I’d been able to get $50,000 for Party Girl back in the pre-Instagram days when only college students were on Facebook, the only new people publisher are giving book deals to now are those with massive social media followings and email lists.

Traditional publishing doesn’t care how good a story is. It may have never cared. My friends from the traditional publishing world—the friends who had sold big books to major publishers—are either contemplating going back to school, working at celebrity weeklies or embarking on entirely new careers.

Traditional publishing is really destined to only work for the Elizabeth Gilberts, Glennon Doyles and whoever else happens to have a book really hit. As my friend Jennifer Armstrong told me when I had her on my podcast, “There are levels internally that publishers don't tell you about, and when my book hit the first week, it felt like I had unlocked this whole new level in a video game that I didn't know existed. On my previous book,they'd all been very polite, and said things like, ‘Here is another thing someone has written about you. I am passing it on,’ and that was kind of it. Now they were saying, ‘Do you want to have a marketing meeting?’ I’d say, ‘I thought we already had that meeting.’ And they essentially said, ‘Sure, but do you want to have a real meeting?’”

The reality is that most of the writers who pass the Rubicon by getting a deal are going to end up disappointed and broke.

But What About the Bestseller List & Bookstores?

Here's what I can say about the lists: the chance of a book hitting the Times list is minuscule and putting your focus on that is a great way to make your book release experience miserable. (I know because I did it—five times!) The one time I didn’t obsess over a book of mine hitting the list, it did hit the list. And while it’s undeniably cool to be able to dine out on being a New York Times bestselling author (and trust me, I have), focusing on that as a goal is, I think, to miss all the potential joys of the publishing experience.

In terms of a book tour, I personally know almost no one who has been sent on one—and I know a hell of a lot of traditionally published authors. I guarantee Elizabeth Gilbert, Glennon Doyle and all the authors who don’t need book tours are sent on pretty plush ones, but the authors I know who “go” on tour are often paying for and arranging those tours themselves.

What Your Publisher Will and Won’t Do

Look at it like this. Imagine you’re a filmmaker and you get a studio to invest in your movie. Yahoo, you’ve made it! And this isn’t just any old movie but one you wrote and are directing, producing and starring in. And you’re not just starring in it—you’re the only star. The year that you’re shooting, the studio is very supportive. Lots of patting you on the back and giving you advice. Then it’s release day. You’re a bit scared by the fact that, er, nothing seems to be happening. So you reach out to the studio…and don’t hear back. You’re confused. Weren’t you all in this together? Didn’t they give you money so you could all have a hit on your hands?

So surprising is this experience that every time it happened to me, I basically suffered something close to amnesia and therefore had to go through it six times in total before I finally got the memo: my pub­lisher wasn’t going to do anything for me. The reality is that publishers pick a book or two a season to put all their efforts behind—and my books never made the cut. All the major media exposure I got for my books I secured myself. That’s because the chosen ones are the ones that don’t need support. My publisher's indifference to my books wasn’t personal; they were just going for low-hanging fruit.

As for having your book sold in bookstores, HarperCollins paid for each of my books to be in stores for a few weeks. Then the books slowly, with each purchase, dwindled out of the store—never to return. The reality is that most books that aren’t instant bestsellers don’t stay in stores—unless the author jumps in and hustles the book to booksellers him or herself. 

I don’t mean to sound discouraging. I just mean to sound realistic. And there’s a reason that, after six traditionally published books, I wouldn’t go tradi­tional again.

So let’s move on to the other options.

How Self-Publishing Works

Self-publishing isn’t what it used to be back when your great aunt paid a janky publisher to put out your family history and foisted the copies upon every family member over the holidays.

Instead, these days, it’s possible to publish a book yourself that is indistinguish­able from a book pub­lished by, say, HarperCollins. If you’re going to achieve that goal, however, it means that you must strive for excellence at every stage.

The time frame is—well, it’s whatever you want it to be. While I highly recommend taking your time with it, Amazon allows you to replace a book with an updated version at any time so it’s possible to launch a book, re-do it and launch it again. Still, I don’t recommend that. “You only get one chance to make a first impression” is a cliché for a reason.

Excellence at every stage involves hiring the best editors, cover designers, layout designers and everyone else your team requires but if you’re not interested in making that level of time or financial commitment, you can also just go for it. If you want to go ahead and publish your book, here are seven steps to the EASIEST, LEAST EXPENSIVE way to do it.

STEP 1: Go to fiverr.com, search “book layout for Kindle”; hire one of them 
STEP 2: Go to canva.com, click on Create a design
STEP 3: Scroll down the page that comes up, then click on Book Cover under Blogging & eBook 
STEP 4: Select a cover, change the text and go…
STEP 5: Upload the file and cover to Amazon by following these instructions: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
STEP 6: Decide whether or not you want to sell your book exclusively on Amazon (the advantage is that you can make your book free for five days every 90 days and really try to drive sales); if you do choose that, enroll your book in KDP Select.

         Here’s how:

Go to your Bookshelf.
Click on the ellipsis button ("...") under the KINDLE EBOOK ACTIONS menu next to the book you want to enroll.
Choose Enroll in KDP Select.
On the screen that appears, click Enroll in KDP Select.

Baby, you are published!

Of course, you should only do it when you've created something you consider a masterpiece. And that is, of course, a lot of work.

 
 
So Why Do All This Work?

I'm a primary example of what a book can do for a person. The fact is, my books have taken me from girl who couldn't rub two nickels together to woman The Today Show calls when they need an expert. They've helped me to build a company where I work with seven and eight-figure entrepreneurs.

The truth is, my books have given me everything. And I'm certainly not the only one. I'll leave you with this quote from my client Emily Lynn Paulson:  “My book is my business card, not my debit card. I didn’t do a book because I thought it would make me a millionaire. You definitely can make money and I have and it's been great. But I think of it differently. When I think of the things I've invested in, in my life—college, training, coaching programs, all that stuff—I'm not necessarily using those; this is something you can really use.

If you're a realtor, you get a website and pamphlets. I saw the book wasn't the real estate but I'm the real estate. So the book really was marketing my business card. And I understand that it’s really a residual thing. The book is going be out there forever.

The part for me that has paid off the most has been being able to put “author” next to my name—just like putting master's degree or whatever else…you're paying for the credential. This has been a credential I couldn't put a price tag on. People will start paying attention to you and invite you to things without even reading your book. It’s the fact that you've written the book that’s the draw and not necessarily what the book is about.”

You Can Pick Whatever Publishing Route You Want. Here's Why I Choose (My) Self—Self-Publishing, That Is

I don't like to feel frustrated and neglected; it's just not a good look for me. I'm also not great at having other people in charge (there's a reason I've been fired from almost every job I've ever had).

And the reality is that we are in the golden age of self-publishing. I first noticed it when I began to see that traditional publishing was falling apart. That's when I discovered an entrepreneur and author named James Altucher who’d done several books with big publishers. Then he wrote a book called Choose Yourself. He hired independent editors, cover designers and everything else. It sold 45,000 copies in the first week. 

Other names were popping up. Amanda Hocking. Mark Dawson. Nick Stephenson. People were doing the thing I’d long derided—self-publishing—and making not just a killing but also an impact.

I wanted that, too.

But this is my reality. If it's not yours and you're determined to go the traditional publishing route, the first step is to get an agent. Below, as promised, please find...

Recommendations From Top Writers on How They Got Their Agents

Jason Smith, author of The Bitter Taste of Dying

I actually did everything backward and did mostly what they say you shouldn't do. I wrote a ton of stuff for free, which a lot of writers say you shouldn't do. They say you're more valuable than "free." I say that's bullshit. You don't get to determine your own value. That's determined by the demand, so to me, it made sense to build the demand before demanding value. I had the deal with Warner Bros off a free story, that was seen by 100k people, but I still didn't have an agent. Through Warner Bros, I was connected into the world of ICM, and Heather Bushong, the book to film agent. From there, they connected me into the literary side

Jillian Lauren, New York Times bestselling author of the memoirs Everything You Ever Wanted, Some Girls: My Life in a Harem and the novel Pretty

I didn’t re-invent the wheel. I got my first agent through a cold submission! my basic advice is to check the acknowledgments section of books with the same tone/theme/subject etc of yours. Writers always thank their agents first. Ask all the friends you have for intros to their agents. And just do it right and write an amazing query and proposal and don't jump the gun and try to get an agent before you have an EXCELLENT, PERFECT product.

Mark Ebner, New York Times bestselling author of Hollywood Interrupted, among other books

In 2003, I was reading some autobiographical prose from Los Angeles journalist emeritus Marc Cooper. In one of his stories, he was going gonzo with his literary agent, "Big Vig." I asked around, and sure enough, David Vigliano was a major player in the NYC book world. I cold-called him, and asked if he was "Big Vig." He laughed, and became my first (of many) book agents that day.

Amy Spencer, author of The Happy Life Checklist, among other books

I got my agent through a friend short-cut mixed with a little magic. I began in a research-y way: I found similar books to mine that I loved, looked up the agent that each author thanked in the back, and then reached out to a few of them with queries about my (big, 60-page, non-fiction, dating advice book) proposal. One of them wrote back asking to see the proposal, which I sent. At the same time, I'd shown my proposal to a magazine editor friend. She personally loved it and said, "You know, I have an agent friend I'd be happy to put you in touch with." Turns out that agent didn't usually rep the type of book I was proposing, but I figured I may as well take her up on the personal connection anyway, since the agent had agreed to at least take a look. So I sent my proposal to that agent...and the next day got an email from a *different* agent saying she'd seen the proposal on her colleague's desk, grabbed it, read it, and asked if she could represent me! What a little miracle. We got on the phone and connected instantly. I did check in a few times with that original agent I'd sent my proposal to, but she kept putting me off, so I decided to go with the whip smart, persistent, on-top-of-it agent who actually "got" me and wanted to work with me without hesitation. She sold that book for me in two months with multiple offers and I've been with her since through three more books!

Ryan Hampton, author of American Fix

I researched the web. And then reached out to other authors for recommendations. Eventually it led to me finding my agent, who was totally off the map with a boutique agency. My friend had just published a book on addiction and he made the intro. I still had to sell her on the idea though. It’s helpful to have an active social media presence when pitching. I had some big shot agent who was willing to sign me but didn't really seem to have heart (or time) for the project. And I like people who are hungry like me. I literally just Googled "literary agent" and dialed every person—cold called and emailed.

I said, “Hi my name is Ryan Hampton. I've spent the last two years watching my friends die from addiction. I'm sick and tired of reading the same old addiction memoirs. I have a story to tell. And I think if the rest of the world could see what I did through my lens, they would be outraged. I'm writing a book. Not just any book. And it's not my story on how I got sober. I want people to be as outraged as me. I'd love to work with you, but if you aren't interested please let me know now. I'm going to get this published. Thanks." That literally was my pitch.

THIS POST IS AN EDITED VERSION OF A SECTION OF MY UPCOMING BOOK. IF YOU'D LIKE TO JOIN THE ADVANCED READER TEAM FOR THIS BOOK SO YOU CAN GET IT EARLY AND FOR FREE, EMAIL ASSISTANT@ANNADAVID.COM WITH "ADVANCED READER TEAM" IN THE SUBJECT LINE.

You're not sheltering in place; you're an artist in residence [NEWSLETTER 4/2/20]

First off, a confession: I COMPLETELY STOLE THIS SUBJECT LINE FROM SOMEONE ELSE—NAMELY, NATALIE. Who's Natalie, you ask? Why someone who's using this time to write. See above!

As I mentioned last week, a group of us have been gathering on Zoom every dayto chat for a few minutes, write for roughly an hour and then chat a little bit more. I'm so impressed with the people showing up every day and perhaps even more impressed with the new faces that pop up...agreeing to join a group of people you've never met to pour your heart onto a screen requires some gumption. Since publishing a book also requires gumption, it's perfect training.

My point is this: join us if you want! We're having fun. We're getting a lot done. We're chatting about it in the Facebook group (which I'd also encourage you to join). It's all happening every day at 10 am PST and will be happening until I tell you otherwise.

So who are those lovely two people above—and what are they working on? Well, let me tell you...

Natalie Bonfig has a daughter with a genetic disorder called Turner Syndrome. She writes about life after her daughter’s diagnosis and her breakdown as well as parenting, trauma, loss, grief, and life. Her publishing credits include Medium, The Mighty, Thrive Global and Light Hustler and she’s currently working on a book called Everyday Self Care; you can find all of her blog posts at www.everydayself-care.com.

Chris Joseph, meanwhile, is the owner of CAJA Environmental Services, a consulting firm that specializes in the management and preparation of environmental documents.

Chris is also the Founder of the Threadhead Cultural Foundation (TCF), a 501c3 non-profit company formed out of the love for New Orleans and its music, and its musicians. He has served on other non-profit boards, including Friends of the Inyo, The Spannocchia Foundation, and Affordable Living for the Aging, and has been a NatureBridge Southern California Board and Yosemite member for over seven years.

His memoir is about being diagnosed with a deadly form of cancer and overcoming the odds in unconventional ways. 

IF YOU WANT TO MEET THESE LOVELY PEOPLE (MORE PROFILES OF OTHERS FROM THE GROUP WILL BE COMING NEXT WEEK), EMAIL ME BACK WITH A "YES I'M IN!" AND YOU'LL GET ON MY "REMINDERS" LIST.

That's it for now. Keep hands washed and fingers typing!

xxA

PS - Skip to the bottom? Come join me and others for online writing sessions every day at 10 am. You can also join the same folks in the Prepare to Launch Facebook group.

PPS IF YOU HAVEN'T YET GOTTEN MY "TOP 10 QUARANTINE WRITING TIPS," YOU CAN GRAB IT HERE.

Episode 305: Why Book Sales Don't Matter with Matt George

 

Matt George is the kindest man alive.

Don't believe me? Well, consider this. The Peoria, Illinois-based writer, speaker and CEO of the Children’s Home Association of Illinois is the former Executive Director of the Hult Center for Healthy Living and the former President and CEO of Youth Farm, which later merged with Children’s Home in 2007, under his leadership.

In addition to his work at Children’s Home, Matt helps raise funds for local nonprofits, including Neighborhood House, The Hult Center for Healthy Living, Crimestoppers and more.

But I know a lot more than Matt's resume. That's because my company published his #1 bestselling memoir/business book NonProfit Game Plan and so I had a front-row seat on his journey from behind-the-scenes rainmaker to public face. 

In this episode, we discussed how a mentor played a crucial role in this transition, the way his book has changed his entire career and why he doesn't track book sales, among many other topics.

 
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THE EPISODE!!

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT:

Anna David:                  00:01                So Matt, a pleasure to have you be the very first episode that I record in my studio.

Matt George:                00:07                I love the studio. Can't wait to be there.

Anna David:                  00:10                You're going to be here recording your audio book. The sound I hope is, is Epic. Now, so what is fascinating not, is not just that you are the kindest man that I've ever dealt with. That's fascinating. But how we came to work together and how as a result I had a front row seat as you built your platform and built towards your lodge. So let's talk about, I want to talk about that, but I also want to talk about how you basically decided I'm going to get out there and I'm going to tell my story and you targeted one specific man who told you how to do it. So let's talk about that.

Matt George:                00:49                Okay. Yeah. So, Kevin Harrington original shark on Shark Tank and inventor of the infomercial. I saw him at a conference and the short of it is I tracked him down afterwards. You know, everybody has escape routes. And he had just made a joke about how he goes into hotel rooms and he's waiting for somebody to jump out of the closet or out from under his bed and, and pitch him on something. And I thought that was funny. And so he went out one way at the conference and there was really only one way out. And this conference was in Las Vegas and real long escalators. And so I waited by the escalator and there he comes walking around the corner, and I said to him, Kevin, I'm not here to pitch you. I don't want money. I run a children's home. And what happened in about two seconds, it actually changed my life. He said, I'll call you, give me two hours, I'll call you. And I thought, Oh boy, he's going to blow me off.

                                    01:52                And exactly, two hours later I get a call and he knew all about me. He did his homework on the plane. He pulled nine nineties from my nonprofits. He knew what our budget was. He knew that I worked with NFL coaches. And all these baseball hall of fame guys, and really just was a cool experience. And then he ended the call with what do you want? And I said, I need a mentor. I have a lot of mentors. I truly believe in them. Mentors have actually changed my life and helped put me in the position that I'm in now, but I need somebody on a national or worldwide scale. And he said, well, if you're serious, come down to Florida and come on this date, this time. And we'll see. And so I did. And, he said, you're going to write a book. And I went, you got to be kidding me. And that was back just in March of 2019 and here we are 12 months later. And I launched the book, with a lot of your help in January. And it's just been a ride ever since. So, and he still, he checked on me today. And so he, we probably talked five or six times a week. And it's just, yeah, I mean he's, he wants to make sure that I tell the story and he wants to make sure and see the success of the book. And it's just been such a fun experience

Anna David:                  03:34                That kind of makes me want to cry. I don't know why. It's just not what you would expect at all. And I know him, I know what a nice, genuine guy he is, but I also know how busy he is.

Matt George:                03:48                He's very busy. He's called me before from Dubai. He says, man, I'm sorry, I'm in Switzerland. I'm in China. I'm in. And I'm, he calls me at any time. He texts me if he has an idea, he'll text me at midnight and, I'll look and I'll go, Oh, that is an unbelievable idea. And then I'm one of these guys who implements things. Like if he gives me a contact or an idea, I don't sit and really think about it. I'm like, this is a chance of a lifetime. And I act on it. And it's really helped. And he did tell me, he goes, I'm a busy man. Do not waste my time. I need you to go all in, I'll go all in with you if you go all in with me. And I got to open up for him with a speech kicking off the book in Orlando. And there's more to come.

Anna David:                  04:39                And I will say too, you know, Kevin has referred several people to me and he has never done what he sees. So he referred you to me, you and I spoke. And then Kevin basically called me afterwards and was like, Oh, you're doing this. Yeah, my guy, you got to make it work. And so we moved forward and you really are, you know, what's great about you is that you are determined and you were determined in the kindest way. Because we did a lot. You asked for things and you did it in such a kind way that it actually taught me more about how to do that. How to speak up and say I need this? And so tell me how, how I'm going to get it.

Matt George:                05:29                Yeah, that's funny. I appreciate you saying that. I mean, being a fundraiser at heart. I'm not afraid to make the ask. But here's what's, it's kind of funny. I say this in some of my speeches. I'm probably told no more times in a week than the average person can take. And it never bothers me. I mean, it really doesn't, I just expect it actually, and then I pursue the yeses even if there's only two or three a week, but I probably make 50 asks a week.

Anna David:                  06:05                Yeah. There are some personalities that can do that. I couldn't take it. And I put myself out there a lot, but I couldn't take all the no's.

Matt George:                06:14                You do put yourself out there.

Anna David:                  06:16                Yeah. But it's interesting and I don't want to make it like a male female thing, but you know, I know I have male friends who are just completely fine picking up the call and giving them the phone and hearing no. And maybe I can just do it over email or something like that, but I can't, I can't, my psyche can't take it. My fragile, fragile, self esteem. But, okay. And so let's talk, you went from pretty much thoroughly on Googleable, not entirely, but to having a platform on a national level. Let's talk about how you strategically built that and how would the role that played in the book release?

Matt George:                06:50                Yeah. Well part of it was really just trying to come up with a plan and a plan that actually had some action items tied to it. I mean, I think a lot of times people have goals and, but the goals, you can procrastinate so easily on these goals. And so what I did is I ended up having about 150 to 200 different goals. And one of the first ones was, is to get my hometown involved and bought in before I even went out further. Because if the people who cared for me and knew me didn't support me, then it was going to be really hard to do it in LA or Chicago or Miami or whatever. And so, that was the first step. And so I have a few mentors here that actually helped me with that part of it. Kevin helped. And then I went to our mayor here in Peoria, Illinois. And I said, here's what I'm doing and this is about community. Even though I'm going to be the spokesperson for this, this really is about community. And he said, I'm all in. What do you need? And I took those goals and gave them to him. And so it was everything from his state of the city, which had 850 people here in Peoria tent. I was highlighted, I was featured my book, he let me have a book signing after his, this is his show.

                                    08:16                And so we've got video and we've got pictures doing that. And all my donors and all of the people that tied to the children's home that I run, they were all there and they sat there and said, what an opportunity for children's home, but what an opportunity for our community. And so I'm a true believer no matter how big the community you, where you live. I mean, use LA as an example. It's your job, Anna, to take care of that community. It is a lot of peoples efforts to take care of the communities you're in. And that's the approach that I took. And that's really what kind of steamrolled all these other types of conversations because I just did something, a TV interview in Michigan and you think, well, what do they care? Well, they care because it's community and that compassion piece I think is very important. When you look at Kevin and the shark mentality, you only see that cut throat. I'm there for the dollar's and all of that. But really there is a heart and there is a compassion piece that is huge to business in general.

Anna David:                  09:28                And so when you decided to basically get your city behind your launch, what did you, you went to the Mayor, what else did you do?

Matt George:                09:41                Well, I went to the top 15 corporations in town and I gave them a little sneak peek of what I was doing and I said I needed their back. And so, I had the launch on the 15th of January and that book launch had the CEO of Caterpillar inc and they, we had the CEOs of the hospitals and the CEOs, and these are people why it's important to have the CEOs is because you have that corporate backing and those employees are really tied to boards and the boards are tied to community. And so I knew once had the corporate piece that the bigger thought was then I can go and do the grassroots neighborhood piece. And you know, Kevin told me something that was interesting. And I do this anyway. I'm a true believer that even though, I run an agency, everyone in my opinion needs to win because if I can't raise money for the person next door, which isn't typical, but I do it every weekend I'm doing it tomorrow, that then those kids will hit the street or those cancer survivors aren't going to have some sort of treatment or holistic approach or whatever it may be. It could be the boys and girls club. And they all, all of these groups have to talk because it's the same people in the communities. And so that's where it started. And once we started doing that, I started doing, I got an interview in telling that piece in Michigan, and then Indianapolis, and then I went to Phoenix and then to Vegas and then to Orlando. And it's just starting. I'm doing some keynotes this summer and one of the groups is the thousand people from all over. And it's an accounting firm. It's not a nonprofit because it does, it goes back to people and it goes back to community. And I truly believe that I'll stand by that for the rest of my life, no matter what. I've always felt that.

Anna David:                  11:48                And so what are the actual, if somebody wanted to follow in your stead and take actual steps you're taking, you know, you're having launched this speaking career, do you reach out and send copies of your book? What do you do and how does the book play into it?

Matt George:                12:02                Yeah, so one of the things that I did is I ended up, I purchased 500 copies of my own book and I've already handed them out. What I, what I've done locally is I have helped book signings and I haven't charged what I say is, make donations to the children's home. And so it's really, I've gotten in the hands of people, just in this area, I've probably gotten about a thousand books in people's hands. And so that's just locally. But then when I went to Orlando, I had, it was so funny. I had carry on luggage. I can barely even roll it. And I, it was 100% filled with books. And so the lady next to me that was on the airplane, I started talking to her and she was from Dayton, Ohio. She got a copy and I just started handing out copies, and really what it's, I've had two or three people already email me. I had somebody from Cleveland, Ohio, email me and they want me to hire me to come and talk to their United way there. And so there's, I think there's an approach that you can take. You can take a, I guess a cheaper approach and maybe try to do it by emails and try to worry about book sales. I mean, I don't think I've really even looked at how many books I've sold. I kind of don't care. I just really want to get the word out. And I think getting the word out is the most important thing. I sent press releases to people that probably don't care. Everything that you can think of from a branding standpoint. I left a book in the airport. I was in Las Vegas. I'm sitting in a lounge at the hotel and I handed out books. And then what was funny is I took books with me to dinner and I had one of my daughters with me and I had her carry these books. And so if a celebrity walked by, there was an athlete that walked by and I said, Hey, he's an all pro football player. And I said, champ, I said that I want to show you what I, what I've done my book. He didn't know me. And I said, do you mind holding the book up and everything? And he goes, it's for kids, right?

                                                            And I go, yeah, I run a children's, I run a children's home and you know, then, and then I take that and I post it on Instagram and Facebook and all the other social media that you can, and I really hit it hard. And so it's, I think my LinkedIn has gone from 2000 followers to maybe seven or eight, just in about three or four weeks. And the same with Facebook. I think I'm getting close to tapping out of how many, so called friends you can have. And, but it's those types of things. And then I found lists of people that had done interviews before and I found all these different, so I'm emailing snippets of my book to different markets. So in Indianapolis I found a media list and I ended up sending 12 to 15 emails to that list alone. And I think if you have that goal of doing that once a day, twice a day, and doing something every day to promote yourself and promote the book, in the end I think I've, I love doing these podcasts. I've never done one until about four weeks ago, and I think I've done 10 now. And so it's things like that that are awesome.

Anna David:                  15:51                I mean, I think you are so smart to not worry about the book sales to understand that it is about what you, what you can do in terms of the influence with having a book compared to what? Selling a book and making $5 on each. It's so, I'm so happy when people just organically understand that. But is that something, some having a mentor like Kevin sort of taught you or did you just know that?

Matt George:                16:19                Well, you know, just promoting events that I've done in the past, in my career I've put on 250 plus events and fundraisers and things and so I understand the value of brand, but it was always for the brand of what the cause was or what the mission was. What I figured out with Kevin is that, and you, is that the book is an Avenue to have me be the brand, which in turn my agency, Children's Home actually reaps the benefits from. My dad said something so funny. My dad goes, how many books have you sold? And I go, I haven't even looked. And he goes, well, it's not like you're John Grisham or something. And it's true. I mean, let's be real. My goal isn't to try to sell as many books as Nelson Demill or anything like that. That's not the goal. The goal is to spread the word of what we ended up writing about and what change we can make to better our community.

Anna David:                  17:30                Yeah. I mean, sorry, John Grisham, I think you're helping a lot more people than he is. So, if you had to give your top tips for a launch, three top tips to make a book successful, what would they be? Uh-Oh, Oh, you went away.