Anna David's Blog, page 21
December 9, 2020
Should I Give Up on Traditional Publishing?
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
The Caveat: I'm Biased Against Traditional Publishing
How Much Does It Matter to You?
You Can Publish Your Book Yourself
The Rules with Novels Are Different
I Couldn't Make a Living Until I Could Answer the Question: What Do I Want This Book to do For Me?
You Have to Get Realistic
You Don't Need Them
If Your Goal is to Have a Writing Career...
Today I'm going to dispel some publishing myths and maybe discourage you a little bit, all in the name of showing you how you can launch a book that will build your brand and your business. But first we have to dispel myths. And so today I am answering a question that came to me from a listener, @michaelcringering is his Instagram handle.
Here's the question: “I started submitting to agents in March because I'm hoping to secure someone interested in my novel. I submitted to 153 agents in my genre but heard back from less than 25 percent. With that said and the pandemic raging, should I continue to wait or go ahead and self publish?”
The Caveat: I'm Biased Against Traditional Publishing
My bias comes from the fact that I come from traditional publishing.
HarperCollins published six of my books, Simon and Schuster published one. It was a New York Times bestseller and I am still massively opposed to traditional publishing because I was disillusioned every single time.
If you want more information about this, my God, go listen to old episodes, but I'm going to give you the definitive answer to what I think. I'm not great with numbers, but I'm going to say something. 153 agents is a lot. A lot. A lot. A lot.
And we're recording this in November so March was a long time ago.
How Much Does It Matter to You?
I really think it's about weighing how much does it mean to you to have a traditional publisher's name on your spine so you can hang on and keep on following up?
But even just getting the agent, it's just the tiniest little step up the hill, roughly.
This is the most depressing thing I will say but the rough statistic is that two out of every 10,000 book proposals sell. Even if you get the agent, then there is this submission process, which can also be endless. So I believe it comes down to goals.
You Can Publish Your Book Yourself
You could put it on KDP. That's the back end of Amazon. They will give you an ISBN that will give you a barcode and you can design your cover and they'll do the layout. You can do that.
You can also use companies like Launch Pad—we're booked right now, so put this in your back pocket. There are other companies like ours where we will design the cover, do the layout and do a launch where it goes into bookstores and is a number one bestseller on Amazon and has all these reviews and all of those things.
You could also do it on your own, not just the KDP Amazon back end, but you can get layout software like Vellum for $250, and for the rest of your life, it will lay out books for you. (Scroll down for a link.)
Now you could figure this out. I know people who do. You could figure out keywords and categories. You could use Publishers Rocket software. (Scroll down for that link, too.) It tells you everything you need to know about keywords and categories and all of that stuff. You could write your own book description. You could write your own author bio. You can do all of these things.
The Rules with Novels Are Different
First of all, with novels you finish the entire book before trying to get an agent or a publisher, as opposed to a non-fiction book where you would have to write a proposal—with very few exceptions.
As a former novelist, let me say that you need to have a goal. I didn't have a goal. I just thought, "Oh, I'm going to write these novels and I'm going to be hugely successful, they'll probably make a reality show about me. These books will definitely be made into movies and be New York Times bestsellers and all of those things." I actually got close on those things. HarperCollins did want to develop a reality show about me. The movie rights have been optioned over and over again, but it didn't happen.
And it happens to .01 percent of people. I got paid 50,000 dollars for my first book. By the end of my traditional publishing book career, I was being paid 2000 dollars. I was not making enough money to live on. So maybe we're all great artists and we want to just put out our work because it's important and we want to help people. But we also need to pay our rents and our mortgages.
I Couldn't Make a Living Until I Could Answer the Question: What Do I Want This Book to do For Me?
We all have to ask: What is my goal? What do I define as success? Because if you are going to rely on a publisher or anybody else for success, it's probably not going to happen. I mean, it happens one in a million times. If you are going to say, "OK, from this book, I want to get clients, I want to get people to sign up for my coaching," whatever it is, then you can the book will be successful because you will design it to get you what you want.
For instance, I released a book in July, Make Your Mess Your Memoir. I got on Good Morning America. I sold I don't know the exact number, but let's say safely under five thousand books.
However, that book brought in so much new business that my company is now booked for the next year—hundreds of thousands of dollars as a result of that book, none of it from book sales.
Now, I'm a very practical person. One time my mom took me shopping and she said, "I'll buy you anything you want as long as it's whimsical and it has no purpose." And I literally couldn't do it.
You Have to Get Realistic
If you are going to do a novel, get really clear about what your goal is going to be, because chances are no one's going to hire you as a coach based on a novel and it's not going to bring in business. So get really, really clear about your goals and know this: Your publisher isn't going to help you.
I told you I was negative about publishing. The average book that's published traditionally sells 300 copies. The publishers are putting their efforts into the books that were the authors were paid million-dollar advances because they want to earn their money back. So everything you do, you're going to have to do, whether it's traditionally published or self-published.
You Don't Need Them
You can get on media and in bookstores without traditional publishers. As I said, I was on Good Morning America for this book I published. I wasn't on that show for any of the books Harper published. I've talked about this in previous episodes, but Harper would tell me that bookstores didn't want my books. And I've been able to get Make Your Mess your Memoir in tons of bookstores just on my own.
So my point is this. You don't need them unless publishing a book through Random House or Simon Schuster or Harper Collins is on your bucket list.
If Your Goal is to Have a Writing Career...
Have a career that's going to back up the writing. Or you can be independently wealthy and a true artist. I hope this wasn't too discouraging and I hope that Michael, you get signed and you are one of those authors that is given a million-dollar advance. But just in case, take my cynical, negative, yet experienced wisdom to heart.
By the way, if you want me to answer your question on this show, just message me on Instagram @annabdavid.
LINKS: [NOTE: THESE ARE AFFILIATE LINKS!]
RELATED EPISODES:
How Do I Get My Book in Bookstores?
How Do I Build Up My Profile Enough for a Publisher to Want Me?
Jeff Garlin on the Difference Between Selling to a Publisher and Selling to Readers
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE!
QUOTE OF THE POD:
"The average book that's published traditionally sells 300 copies. The publishers are putting their efforts into the books for the authors who were paid million-dollar advances because they want to earn their money back. So everything you do to promote your book, you're going to have to do, whether it's traditionally published or self-published."
Marleen Seegers on Selling the Foreign Rights to Your Book
Marleen Seegers on Selling the Foreign Rights to Your Book
Marleen Seegers is the co-founder of 2 Seas Agency, which sells the foreign rights of books by authors such as James Altucher. She's also the host of the Make Books Travel podcast. Her team pays regular visits to international book fairs such as those in Beijing, Turin, Guadalajara, Rio de Janeiro, Sharjah, New York, Leipzig and of course Frankfurt and London, combined with trips to major publishing cities including Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Munich and Berlin.
Jealous yet? Well, COVID put a damper in that publishing schedule. Yet Marleen has still managed to thrive—and educate the rest us about how the whole foreign rights think works, which countries like which books and whether or not it really means doing book readings on Greek islands. Listen to the episode to find out more.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Anna David: 00:00 Wow. So, thank you so much for doing this; as I was just telling you, foreign rights just sounds so glamorous. It conjures up these images of like a Greek Island and doing a book reading on a beach and it's nothing like that. Is it?
Marleen: 00:15 Well, especially not now when people are just not traveling anywhere. So, I've just been working from my home office since the beginning of the pandemic, but and so are most international publishers, but yeah, I mean, sometimes authors get invited for a reading in a very exotic setting, but most of the time it's us going to international book fairs, and just sitting in these big trade shows, just pitching and in a very busy room and running around and yeah, just, you know, hard business.
Anna David: 00:51 So, but let us live in our fantasy. How can you tell which books are best for foreign markets? Is it just the quality? Is at the advance the writer was paid? How do you decide?
Marleen: 01:03 I think it's, you can never really tell for sure whether a book is going to sell internationally or not. And that I think is the most interesting part of my job is that you just never know there's really good surprises. Sometimes there's also bad surprises, when I was really rooting for a book that I personally loved and I didn't manage to sell the rights. But there are a few elements that can help us evaluate an advance, whether a book is going to sell or not. And first of all, as you mentioned, it's the quality is very important. A book just has to be well-written. If I send a manuscript to a foreign publisher and it's not well written, then they will realize after a few pages and they stopped reading and move on to the next manuscript. So, cause what you have to know is that so many books get published around the world in so many languages, not just English.
01:56 So acquiring international publishers get so many books on submission every day. So, it is our job as a foreign right seller to tell them, Hey, drop everything else. Look at this book right here, right now. And being able to tell them, you need to look at this book right here, right now, because it's the number one best seller in the Wall Street Journal. It has sold X number of copies. So, 50,000 copies in the first month of publication, it's been endorsed by X, Y, Z, very, you know, famous authors or other industry figures that are well-respected and well-known. So those elements, you know, are all sales arguments, if there's great reviews in the New York Times or in the Atlantic or whichever traditional publishing, how should I put it traditional newspapers or, you know, blogs, and reviews left on websites can also help, but it's very much still the traditional newspapers that really have a big impact for international publishers.
Anna David: 03:12 That's super interesting. I wouldn't know that because you think of newspapers as having no pull anymore. Oh, you can get reviewed in New York Times and you can still just sell a hundred copies. You hear things like that. But it makes a difference.
Marleen: 03:24 Yeah, of course it does. But it does make a difference, being able to mention a quote from the New York Times or Publishers Weekly or Kurkers the reviews. It helps pull them into the manuscripts rather than an Amazon reviewer that nobody has heard of. And, you know, which can be very nice for authors and very important too for sales on Amazon, but for international publishers, they like receiving, or they like connecting with media that they're more familiar with and names that they're more familiar with too.
Anna David: 03:59 And so are there specific markets that you can say, Oh, you know, in Japan they love thrillers, in Italy they love romance. Are there rules like that?
Marleen: 04:09 Yeah. I mean, there's trends that come and go, at the moment, anything like nature writing works really well internationally. I think it's what we're living through at the moment. It's kind of a back to nature, back to the basics. Let's just enjoy and go outside on a hike, and read about what birds we can come across and what they can teach us in our lives. And but there are also some country-specific interests. I would say for Japan, as you mentioned that, and in general, all of Southeast Asia, China, and South Korea, and Thailand, Vietnam, any business and marketing title, anything that comes from like the Silicon Valley entrepreneur, that is very much a genre that is much requested by publishers from those territories and that we tend to sell well into those territories.
05:09 And then there's, I can also tell you like specific genres that don't work in specific markets. So, I'm from the Netherlands originally, and I know the Dutch are very down to earth, both feet on the ground, kind of people and any novel that I've tried to sell that had any kind of like magic realism or any kind of fantasies, it's a whole genre on its own, but yeah. Anything magical or just things that don't add up that are very farfetched that just doesn't work in the Netherlands. It just, yeah. It just, it just doesn't work.
Anna David: 05:49 They're realists.
Marleen: 05:49 Very, very much so. Yeah. And I'm giving these a very broad stroke. Of course, if there's a bestselling author that has a, a book that has a magic realism in it, which actually, I, I just sold a title from Italy into the Netherlands, which has magic realist, realism elements in it, but it's sold into 10 other countries and it was for six weeks on the Italian bestseller list. So, I had all these other arguments that they will also then have to help them sell the book into, you know, into the Netherlands, to their booksellers. So, any of those rules there's exceptions of course, but yeah, we can kind of know in advance sometimes like also Scandinavian countries. They're very good at writing more, writing thrillers, you know, Scandinavian suspense, like Jonas Beau and Steve Larson, I think who started it all. So those, any novels, any thrillers or suspense from, from Norway or from Sweden, they tend to travel better than a suspense or thriller from the Netherlands, for instance. So, but as a result, also the Scandinavians, they are, it's harder to sell suspense or thrillers from other countries into Scandinavia because they are so good at it themselves. So, it makes it easier just to publish domestic authors rather than invest in a translation, and publish a book by author. Who's not from their territory. So, you see what I mean?
Anna David: 07:27 Now you were talking about how you can say to a publisher, a foreign publisher, Oh, this was [inaudible] in the New York Times, Jon Branson loved it, whatever it is. Do you ever just go, I love this book. Can you bring it without that credibility or, you know, or does it always have to have something that's set that pre-sells it?
Marleen: 07:48 Ideally it has both, but I, yes, it has happened that I just absolutely fell in love with a book and I managed to sell just on that premise, but it's very rare and it's getting harder and harder. We'll probably talk about that a little bit later on, but with COVID and publishers have become a lot less open or a lot stricter I'd have to say when it comes to selecting titles that they publish. So, the more sales elements that you can give, like hard sales elements on top of, I am personally in love with this novel that yeah, the better it is.
Anna David: 08:32 Now is there a typical number of, you know, by first book we sold foreign rights and it sold into just two, Italy and Russia. And I didn't know if selling two countries was a lot, a little, like, is there a typical number that one book will sell in?
Marleen: 08:54 Yeah, that's hard to, I would say Italy is a nice market. It's a big market. So, congratulations on that. And Russia is also not easy to sell into. I have to admit, so yeah, those are, that's a very nice combination. But it really depends. Sometimes, as I said, I love a book and I just don't manage to sell the rights into any territories. And sometimes, I mean, ideally because we spend time pitching a book and submitting and keeping publishers informed whether a book sells into foreign territories or not. So, we already spend our time whether there's results or not. So ideally of course, yeah. It's like five, six, seven territories or more to give you an example, the bestselling title that we have in our catalog in terms of foreign rights, it's sold into 37 territories. So, but that's really an exception, like the second best, I'd say it's like 22, 23 territories. And then there's a whole bunch at like 15, 16, and then, yeah, there's a whole lot of titles that only sell into one or two territories, and then there's even more that don't sell at all. It's just, that's part of the business. As I said, you can never really anticipate any foreign sales for sure or not.
Anna David: 10:19 It's interesting. Cause I bet it's much easier to predict initial sales because initial sales, I can sort of talk to somebody and know if their book is going to sell sadly, because it's based so much on their platform today. And if they've got to build in audience in that, I bet it's. So, it's easier. I think to tell which books are going to sell here traditionally first, it's sounding like that. What percentage of the books that you sell are traditionally published and what independently published? I'm imagining mostly traditional.
Marleen: 10:52 Yeah. So, from independently, you mean working with like platforms like Amazon and uploading them. Yeah. So actually, that doesn't happen at all for us at least. And I think that's what most of the industry looks like in terms of foreign rights sales. We really publish, or we work with traditional publishing houses, but they're both independent. What I call independent publishing houses, meaning they don't belong to like a big corporation, like a Random House or Harper Collins. But they're independent, but they still are. They still function in a traditional way.
Anna David: 11:27 Well, because I first heard about you through, because you're James Altars foreign rights agent and he published independently. Yes. But his book was massively successful. Yeah.
Marleen: 11:39 As you say, he already had a huge platform. I mean, his blog was, I don't know how many followers he had back then. I think we started to work on his book, Choose Yourself in 2013, but was already an impressive number of followers. And then, when we took, yeah, when we started pitching his title, we could already mention it's a wall street journal bestseller. It has, I don't know how many, I'm just making up number. I think it was like 50,000 copies sold even before we started pitching it. So that is yeah, that's definitely very helpful. And the publishers who ended up publishing him internationally, they're all traditional publishers.
Anna David: 12:24 Interesting. And you know, I've never heard this before, but, and you may not be able to speak to this, but, but, you know, I've heard about people who do publish directly to Amazon, getting their books translated into Spanish, and then just publishing them to Spanish markets themselves. Is that something you know, anything about?
Marleen: 12:47 I don't know much about it. I would say it's complicated. First of all, you need to make sure that the quality of the translation is good. I mean, that's, I would say the first point, the first sticking point, and then working on the editorial side, in the foreign language, you need to hire people who are native speakers, editors, and then, but even if all that is good, once you've uploaded it onto Amazon, in Spain or Mexico, like what's going to happen then, right? Yeah. You need somebody to push it. You need to, you need to press, you need publicity. You need marketing. Of course. I don't know if there's like firms’ international firms that you could hire that you could work with as an independently published author. That's actually a good thing. I I've never really looked into that, but as I said, it just brings about a lot of extra work and a lot of extra I'd say costs as well, because you, you, you want to make sure that the book of the quality of the translation and the editing and the layout and the design is good.
Anna David: 13:55 Right. Right. And so how do you, on that note, how do you launch a book over? So, when my Italy and Russian rights sold, like nothing happened, you know what I mean? Like, is there something I could have done aside from going there? You know, what can the author do to help their book launch in a foreign country?
Marleen: 14:19 Yeah. That's, I mean, if the author already has a platform there or has already been published previously and has like a fan base or readership that knows him, then usually authors do get invited by the international publisher or there's like literary festivals or who invite authors. And but for first time authors, it's true that publishers tend to want to weight how the book is received and whether the books are selling well before to decide on investing in an invitation. And yeah, I don't really have an answer to that because it's not really that the foreign publisher has their own team of marketing and publicity and who often also don't necessarily speak the language. A lot of people speak English, but I'm thinking, for instance, if a Spanish author is translated into Russian, the Russian sales team does not necessarily speak Spanish and the author doesn't necessarily speak English nor does the press team.
15:26 So it's just, there's a lot of there's a lot of hurdles to overcome there, but yeah, I really can't give you a straight answer to that. It's just a matter of trusting that the foreign publisher knows what they're doing. You know, it's a lot of this as is with publishing in domestically. It's a lot of lot depends on good timing and a lot of luck as well. So that also happens with international publishers when they launch a book, even some books that are, that sell really well. Like for instance, I was speaking with an Italian editor the other day and they published this German book. Speaking of nature, writing it's called the Secret Language of Trees. I don't know if you've heard of it. It was it's so pretty well in the US too. It was originally from Germany and it sold in a lot of countries. It sold really well. And he told me in Italy because I was pitching a nature writing book to him and he's like, hmm. You know, comparing it to that book, doesn't really help here because it just, we did everything we could, we even, we invited the author because it was like an international sensation and it just didn't, it didn't sell.
16:42 So there's yeah, there's, I'm afraid that I don't think there's much the author can do, unless the author already, like, has a specific connection with that language, can speak it, can actually, you know, record a video sometimes that's what happens, especially now when authors can not travel to the countries to help launch the book. The foreign publishers Aussie authors to record a video, if they can do it in the local language, that would be very helpful and reach out on social media. But other than that, there's not much an author could do. I'm afraid other than just hope for the best.
Anna David: 17:24 So you mentioned, you know, that things have changed a lot, so would you say it's getting much harder? I mean, you sort of did say that, it's getting harder and harder to sell foreign rights. Fewer foreign rights are selling now?
Marleen: 17:37 Yeas, I'd say it's more concentrated. So foreign rights to sell, but it's like the best-selling authors and the best-selling titles that are getting sold for more money and then kind of the mid list authors that sell okay. Domestically, but there's not much else to going on around it. They tend to be overlooked just because, you know, with COVID, a lot of countries had bookstores that were closed for months. I spoke with a UK editor this morning and they in the spring their bookstores were closed for 12 weeks. And they're actually getting into a lockdown new lockdown tomorrow. And everybody is a little bit better prepared it seems to handle online sales, but still a lot of publications that were initially scheduled in the spring had to be postponed, which pushed forward to titles that was supposed to be published in the Fall to next spring.
18:36 So everything has been kind of shuffled around, which leaves a lot less space for new acquisitions, because of course, publishers also continue with authors that they they've already acquired titles from before. And they come out with new titles. So, this leaves a lot less room for new acquisitions. This is, let's hope this is a temporary situation, but that's what I felt in this last, these last two, three months. And also, well people, we just don't know what's, what's going to happen. And a lot of foreign rights sales depend also, I have to mention this because it's, it's part of the, as you say a little bit, maybe the glamorous side of it, it's we travel a lot to international book fairs, there are two really important trade shows that take place in London in the spring and in Frankfurt, Germany in the fall. And obviously London was canceled very last minute.
19:30 So nothing happened. It was like a big void. Everybody was grappling with just surviving and the situation in March. And the Frankfurt book fair went fully virtual. So, we just had zoom meetings for two weeks, three weeks nonstop. I actually went, I worked on night shifts because I'm in California. So, and I wanted to make the most of it. So, I started at 1:00 AM until nine or 10:00 AM. But I've noticed that because nobody's meeting in person, you know, a lot depends on relationships. If you know, specific editors really well, they trust you and trust your opinion. So, and then that case, if you say, I love this book, they're much more likely to say, okay, I need to read it now because Marleen loves it. And all that just happens so much better when you're there in person, even on a screen, it's just not the same. So, for us right sellers, the job has become more challenging because everything is digital.
20:33 We're not seeing anybody in person and all we can do now is submit titles and send out reminders and send out newsletters about bestseller rankings. But all of the right sellers are doing that. Now editors are telling me we're getting so much more in our inbox, just, so we need to find creative ways to pitch our titles and the Frankfurt book fair. As I said, it went fully digital. It offered possibilities to record webinars, but I decided not to attend because it's also, I was going to sit in for half an hour when there's not, it's not a personal thing. It really is about the personal connection. So, I know a few agencies did record webinars. Yeah. I have no idea. It's still too soon to say whether they were successful or not, or whether it was useful or not. So, it's just, that's changed a lot in our dealings, in our daily lives.
21:33 So it's yeah, as I said, it's, it's, it's a bit more challenging. Publishers are, they are buying less, but they continue to buy. And in the end, everybody that the general spirit was pretty much uplifting. A lot of sales were made over the summer and in the Fall, whereas obviously the spring wasn't so glorious, so to speak. But so, yeah, I think that the international publishing market is resilient, but it is, it's gotten a lot tighter,
Anna David: 22:06 But at the same time you know, all studies show reading is up. People are reading more. There's possibly, you know, and possibly that will last after we're out of this crazy period. So, who knows it could, you know, there could be a resurgence?
Marleen: 22:23 For sure. A lot of editors told me also that they like people who tend to spend money on cultural activities, like going to museums or to the theater or to the movie theater, which in many countries have been closed since March. So, they now spend their money more on books. So, it's definitely, yeah, but books, as I said, a lot of publishers had a really good summer and good Fall now, of course the Christmas period is always very important. And now with, the threat of, you know, many more countries going down in lockdown and the bookstores, not being able to count on these walk-ins like shopping experiences. That's what I meant with the uncertainty. We don't really know what's going to happen like in the next couple of months, but I mean, I'm with you, let's hope that that just people are rediscovering reading and that it will be, yeah, it will outlast this horrible pandemic that we're living through.
Anna David: 23:24 And so, as we wrap up, tell me about your podcast, why you decided to start it and how it's going?
Marleen: 23:32 So I've been wanting to start a podcast for a while. Actually, it's my husband who was co-founder of the agency. I always say he's the entrepreneurial of our couple, he actually started a podcast for one of his companies and then he was like, Oh, why don't you start one? I'm sure nobody's doing it in the international publishing world. And as like, yeah, I'll look into it. And there's always so much else to do so, but then obviously, as I said, the London book fair didn't happen. I was in Amsterdam for one week and then I flew back right before the borders shut. And then yeah, people were just stressed out and were very much in need to reconnect. And so was I, so normally we just have this world line of meetings for four days in a row of meetings and then drinks and dinners. And you just catch up with so many people in that one week of the London book fair, that just didn't happen.
24:33 And people were eager to reconnect. And I was really eager to reconnect, connect with people in another way. So, I decided to then, yeah, start the podcast. And initially it was about, the very first episode was, it focused on how the agency has been working with a remote office since the beginning. Which a lot of publishers were having to deal with because, yeah, everybody was working from home at the time and definitely did not know how to do it. It was really interesting to see. So that was like the initial, like how do we do it? Which programs did we use? Just very like nitty-gritty stuff. And then I got a lot of positive feedback and then people started reaching out, Oh, I'd love to talk to you. And also, because so many countries were going through a similar experience, but in a different rhythm, obviously China and Korea had the shutdowns already sooner and then Europe arrived.
25:34 And then the US, so I thought it was also really interesting to reach out to publishers from specific territories and just ask them about what's going on in your country. How are you dealing with pandemic and how is your publishing company or your agency dealing with the pandemic? What do you think are people reading are audio books on the rise? Obviously, that was an important topic then because so many people couldn't buy print books because Amazon was also not prioritizing books. So that was the onset. And I yeah, I'm actually starting season two tomorrow recording the first episode, I took a little break with the Frankfurt book fair season. And, but it's been great and I absolutely love it. It's just, it's another way to connect with people because we're just, we're not seeing each other now. And everybody is very, very sad about not being able to see each other. It's a really magical experience those two book fairs, Frankfurt and London, there's plenty of others that I also go to. But those are the two where everybody just shows up and yeah, it's like a reunion.
Anna David: 26:49 So, in terms of audio, do you sell foreign rights of audio books too, and hire actors in English?
Marleen: 27:01 So the, the foreign publishers, usually nowadays, when they buy the publishing rights to a book and the translation rights, to a book, they acquire print, eBook, and audio book rights. So that all is in one contract. And then the foreign publisher either they sub-license it to a specific audio book publisher who then takes care of the production or what is happening more and more, they have it recorded in-house because then they own the master files obviously, and they can do a lot of things with it. So yeah, definitely audio is on the rise. I would say it's nowhere near the levels in terms of sales and income. It's nowhere near the levels it has in the US and the UK and other English language markets. Germany has been strong in the audio book market for a couple of years now where it actually is. It's like a competitor to the mass market paperback edition.
27:56 Even in other countries, it's still very much at the very beginning, but there is interest and people are interested in having the audio book rise and more and more are telling us if we can't have the audio rights, then we're not making an offer altogether. And that's also because I don't know if you've heard of there's a Swedish company called Storytell it's a little bit like, yeah, they've been aggressively expanding internationally. They originally started out in the Scandinavian countries, but now they're also operating in the Netherlands and Spain and Bulgaria all around, also in Asia. So that is, they have really accelerated the developments. And especially in terms of streaming, it's mainly a streaming platform.
Anna David: 28:51 Hmm. Well, this has been delightful. Thank you so much. If people want to find you and listen to your podcast, how can they do that?
Marleen: 29:01 So, I would say they go to the website 2Csagency.com, which is a two, the number two. And there is a link to the podcast on the website, but otherwise, it's called the Make Books Travel podcasts because we make books travel and it's available on Spotify, Google podcasts, iTunes, wherever you listen to some of your regular podcasts.
Anna David: 29:26 Well, wonderful. Thanks so much. And thank you guys for listening and I will see you next week. Not you, them. I'm not going to see anybody. I'm going to talk to you.
LINKS:
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE!
How Do I Make My Book a NY Times Bestseller?
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
Why is it So Hard to Get on The New York Times Bestseller List?
How Many Copies Do You Have to Sell to Hit the List?
What Happens If You Try to Game The List?
If You Still Want to Get on the List...
Here's Why I Don't Think It Matters
Why is it So Hard to Get on The New York Times Bestseller List?
The New York Times list is the most prestigious list, followed by The Wall Street Journal and the USA Today list. The reason that the New York Times list is so hard is that they admit it is not based on sales. It is based sort of on sales and sort of on what they like.
And the only reason this information came out is because of a 1983 lawsuit by William Blatty, who's known for writing the book The Exorcist. He wrote a book called Legion that sold really well, yet was only on the list for a week. He knew that it should have been there longer.
He took his case to court and the Times defended itself on the grounds that this is a direct quote: The list did not purport to be an objective compilation of information, but instead was an editorial product.” They admitted they just didn't want stuff they thought was trashy. The court sided with the Times, dismissing this three million dollar lawsuit. But the truth was established.
How Many Copies Do You Have to Sell to Hit the List?
The window for reporting each week closes at noon on Tuesdays and is announced on Wednesdays at seven o'clock Eastern Standard Time. That reflects the previous week's Sunday to Saturday sales period.
So how many books do you need to sell in order to have a New York Times bestseller?
The problem is there is no definitive answer because it depends on what books are being released that week and how many copies they are selling. The general thinking used to be it took five thousand sales in a week to hit the list. Now they say it's more like ten thousand.
If you're saying, "Really that's all?" Well, that is so many freaking books. It is a lot of books. Now, you can't just go buy 10000 copies on Amazon. That's not going to work.
The way the list works is there are New York Times reporting stores. Nobody knows which of the stores are New York Times reporting and which aren't.
It's kind of like being a Nielsen family, which, by the way, my mom was a Nielsen family and they came in, they took the box away because she didn't watch enough TV. Now she's older. She watches plenty of TV but that’s beside the point.
Supposedly, you can go into a store, a bookstore and ask them if they are a New York Times reporting store and they will tell you.
What Happens If You Try to Game The List?
A Forbes story in 2013 by Jeff Bercovici talked about a company called Results Source that you would pay $211,000 and they would make you a New York Times bestseller. But The New York Times started to catch on.
They started to see that people were gaming the system, though the time they really realized that was in 2017, when a book called Handbook for Mortals written by somebody named Lani Sarem, a book which is, by all accounts, unreadable, with a terrible cover suddenly launched ahead of this book called The Hate U Give, which was this huge book by Angie Thomas and became a movie.
Handbook for Mortals became a number one New York Times bestseller in the Y.A. category, and it was from a brand new publishing house called Geek Nation that was oddly affiliated with Thomas Ian Nicholas, the guy from American Pie. Apparently, they basically figured out what bookstores reported to the list and then they ordered just under the amount that would seem suspicious, like 80 books at an independent store, 30 copies at Barnes Noble.
Apparently, they were calling stores asking, "Do you report to the list?" And a journalist uncovered this. And then all these people from the bookstores wrote in and tweeted at the journalists “Yeah I was the bookseller. We thought this sounded super suspicious.”
So what the Times started to do is they put a dagger next to the book if they suspected that it was bulk sales; the little dagger kind of means “this isn't real.” That being said, lots of people don't even notice a little dagger or know what it means. But regardless, it became much more scrupulously watched by the Times after this Handbook for Mortals conversation happened.
Now, here's the interesting thing. A lot of these Fox News guys, the way they got New York Times bestsellers is that they would basically say “Buy a ticket to this event” and the book is included in it. So that's a way to do it.
But know this: the list doesn't track cumulative sales, so say the Bible has never been on New York Times bestseller; it is only tracking sales for that week. So Don Quixote and A Tale of Two Cities sell millions of copies and are never going to be on the list.
If You Still Want to Get on the List...
Your chances depend on the time of year. So in February or March, it's going to be easier to get on the list. It's going to be easier to sell more copies than other books because there are fewer books being released than, say, in the fall. All of this is changing all the time.
I'm now a firm believer in the fact that there's no bad time or a good time to release a book, but there are arguments for all of them. But the point is that even if you sell 10,000 copies in that week, you are still not guaranteed. It is all murky and mysterious and there are exceptions. But for the most part, independent books, books we release ourselves, cannot make lists because of that little editorial standard snobbishness we were talking about.
There are exceptions, but in general, it has to be a book that's released by a major publisher.
And it also has to be the right kind of bulk orders. You can't order bulk copies from a printer and have that count. There is a website called Bookpal.com, which does discount bulk orders and they do report to the list. So let's say I haven't discouraged you and all you want is a New York Times bestseller and you're releasing your book yourself. Know that your chances are minimal. But set up a Book Pal account and maybe go into your local store and ask, “Hey, do you report to The New York Times?”
Here's Why I Don't Think It Matters
I'm somebody who actually has a New York Times bestselling book (I'll be totally honest, it was the e-book extended list. It still counts!) But I have seen so many authors obsess over hitting the New York Times list and basically make themselves miserable because they don't achieve this goal that 0.01 percent of authors achieve. I think it is a silly goal.
I think it is far better to focus on sales on Amazon or if you really focus on the list, something like The Wall Street Journal list or the USA Today list or The Washington Post list, where it is less of a sort of editorial thing and more based on sales.
OK, so that is it. That is today's episode. Remember, I will answer your publishing questions if you DM on the Instagram, I'm @annabdavid.
LINKS:
The Forbes story about Reliable Source
The William Blatty lawsuit against the Times
The Handbook for Mortals scandal
RELATED EPISODES:
A Play-by-Play Breakdown of How Rachel Hollis Launches a Book
A Play-by-Play Breakdown of How Tim Ferriss Launches a Book
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR THIS EPISODE!
QUOTE OF THE POD:
"So many authors obsess over hitting the New York Times list and basically make themselves miserable because they don't achieve this goal that 0.01 percent of authors achieve."
December 2, 2020
Katie DePaola on Building Your Brand with a Book
Katie DePaola on Building Your Brand with a Book
This is an exciting time for the podcast for several reasons, at least one of which is that WE HAVE A NEW NAME! Yes, this has happened before. Oh yes, AfterPartyPod, Recover Girl, Light Hustler, Struggle to Success and some names I'm forgetting were used at some point. But this is the one we're sticking with and I'm not just saying that!
So why this change? Well, in this episode, I explain that since the show was becoming increasingly about how to build your brand with a book, it seemed only right to have a podcast name that reflected it. And now we've got it!
I couldn't have asked for a better guest for this pivot, since she's not only a brand builder extraordinaire but also a friend whose book I feel privileged to be able to publish.
Katie DePaola is an author, speaker, entrepreneur and the founder of Inner Glow Circle, a company dedicated to helping women entrepreneurs find their glow and live purpose-driven lives.
But most relevantly for our show, she is the author of At Least You Look Good: How to Glow Through What You Go Through, the latest release from Launch Pad Publishing. The book is part memoir, part self-help and all love; it's Katie's story about surviving Lyme disease and her brother's death by overdose while building her multi-million dollar business.
Just because I have a guest this week doesn't mean those Q&A or break-the-expert's-strategy-down episodes are no longer. I'll continue alternating different ways of showing you guys how to build your brand with a book, both on my own and with special guests.
All of which is to say: if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM me on Instagram at @annabdavid!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Anna David: 00:01 Katie. This is so fun. I'm having fun already. Are you?
Katie: 00:05 Of course, I'm having fun. I always have fun with you, Anna.
Anna David: 00:08 This is our second interview. You may be the very first guest that I've interviewed twice.
Katie: 00:17 Wow. I feel really honored.
Anna David: 00:20 Well, the thing is, and it's because you're a podcast listener, you know how many times this podcast has changed focus. So, you're now on for a completely different reason.
Katie: 00:31 I went back and looked and I really listened to our podcast because it was so good. And it was two titles ago.
Anna David: 00:39 Yes. Well, yes, you're absolutely right. And it was so good that fans of yours reviewed it on iTunes, which takes a lot. Imagine hearing a guest and liking it so much, that one episode that you would go and review it. That's a very giving, supportive person. All you reviewers we're talking to you. So now what we're talking about is your book launch. It will be out tomorrow. It's the map is confusing for me because we're recording it early, but it's out this week. You guys go grab it. It's called At Least You Look Good, and it is published by none other than Launchpad Publishing. So, so Katie let's talk well, let's talk about your decision to write a book because it has been a long time coming. This one. When did you first decide you wanted to write a book and why?
Katie: 01:37 I mean, I do feel like I'm one of those people who similar to you, like always wanted to be a writer, almost like writing books when I was like seven or whatever. But I sort of had forgotten about the dream a little bit as I think so many of us do. And then truly, and I talk about this a little bit in my book and certainly in the acknowledgements, but two things happened. One, I met Erica Jong at a women's writing retreat and she like looked me square in the eye and said, you have a book in you. And that was after reading some of my writing out loud to her, which I was in my early twenties. I was like, you know, about to pee my pants, maybe did as that was happening. And I remember I was the youngest person at the retreat and you know, I went home and I like tore through Fear of Flying and like, really, I just felt so connected. And I was like, Oh, I'm, I'm like this woman I'm like these women and yet didn't know exactly how that would play out. And then I had separately, had a psychic tell me a few years later, I remember she said, Oh, honey, you have so many books in you.
02:49 And that sort of reignited it again. And so, there were things that I had written at that retreat. And after that retreat, I feel like we're always writing. And I remember something Erica said to me, she was like, you know, you have these characters inside of you. And your kind of always like hearing them. And then eventually it becomes really clear. And, you know, I think this is really relevant for people who are listening, but like, I'm me. And I also have this like character inside of me. Right. And so, I ended up writing a memoir. That's the book that I'm publishing with your team, Anna, but it's also like a, it's a character, right? Like I started to learn who Katie was and who Katie needed to be to the world in a way to be able to show up as a teacher. So, it's been a long time coming, like you said.
Anna David: 03:44 So what did you learn about Katie that you didn't know, how did you, how did do writing this book change you also? Sorry, it's kind of separate.
Katie: 03:55 Well, I think that the book changed me in that writing for me was extremely therapeutic editing was really difficult. Like it was also therapeutic, but it pulled a lot out of me. And I think what I learned the most about myself was and is my resilience and like my capacity to do hard things. So, for those who are listening and don't know my personal story, I lost my brother within a very short span of time. I got diagnosed with chronic Lyme disease that they said I had, you know, to the tune of you have brain damage and damage to your organs. And then I lost my little brother to an accidental overdose. He was 20 years old. He died in my parents' home. It was, you know, obviously we knew he was struggling, but you don't expect that ever I think, and that was, you know, the worst experience of my life. And I hope it will never get worse than that, but it was, you know, it was earth shattering.
05:03 And then I was in a really, really, really bad relationship that I didn't realize how bad it was because I was dealing with all these other traumas, but I ended up sort of dealing with this, this trifecta of trauma. And that ended with my ex who I was engaged to who had given me I guess I won't tell you guys you'll have to read the book, but a blank carat ring and really had shown up as this like Knight in shining Armor, but was the exact opposite that ended with him calling and breaking up with me after committing himself to the psych ward. So, it was a lot, it was a lot. And I knew for me, writing had always been the therapeutic thing. I never felt like people understood me. I never felt like my parents understood me. And so, I would go to my room and I would write, and that's how I dealt with my life, and all the crazy things happening in my brain. So, it was certainly a coping that I think is also a gift.
Anna David: 06:02 This is so interesting because the book and I should mention the subtitle is How to Glow Through What You Go Through and Katie's company, as you heard in the intro is called Inner Glow. Back when she did come on the podcast two incarnations ago, I think I even had glow in my title, struggle to success something, and we really bonded over glowing. So, this is your journey. How do you, or did you glow through what you went through and how do you tell readers to?
Katie: 06:38 Yeah, so I talk about this in the book pretty extensively, but you know, glow was a word that had kind of been in my life and in my orbit. And my very first company quote company that I started when I was like, I don't know, 14 with a friend that was never actually, you know, never left my parents' basement, but it was called Live So That You Glow, like too long of a business, but that was like, you know, what we wrote on our business cards. And then when I started my first company, which was a spray tanning business, I called it Whole Glow and, you know, then I added coaching and I was like, okay, there's the outer glow. And then there's the inner glow. I was trying to find a way to tie all these things together, to tie all these parts of me together. And I think when you have a business that is a personal brand or has an aspect of a personal brand.
07:30 You know, you're trying to figure out who you are while you're also figuring out what the business is. And I always say to like our students, like you are your ideal client. Like the thing that you struggle with typically is the thing that your ideal clients will struggle with in some capacity. And so, a lot of the people that we serve are people who, you know, are looking for their glow. And for us, that's defined as greatest level of want. That's what we call it. Greatest level of want as in glow, as an acronym. And I never knew that that was what it meant. But one day I was like on a run and it finally came to me cause, I always felt, you know, maybe it had a deeper meaning. And to me, the greatest happiness in life is finding, getting clear on what you really want and then going after it.
Anna David: 08:21 Right, right. Now let's talk about the company because what Katie didn't explain is, while all these traumas were going on. She was starting in her Glow. So, talk about that please.
Katie: 08:36 So what's so crazy is that I started IGC and then exactly 100 days later to the day I got the call that my little brother had died. Like I literally woke up one day. My other brother, I was traveling, my other brother called me and he said, you need to come home now, Bo's dead. And you know, I mean, you never quite recover from, from hearing those words, but I had to keep going. I felt I had to keep going because I had just started this company. And to be completely honest, having a business and having people to show up for, in my case, it was women to show up for my team. And also, people I was serving clients was the thing that kept me alive. Like getting that call and experiencing the death of a sibling for me was completely earth-shattering.
09:39 It also brought up a lot of my own struggles with mental health and took me on a an intense journey that I'm still on of understanding myself in that way. And so, yeah, I mean, it's like, wow, I can't believe I, that was all the same time. And also thank God. It was all the same time because, you know, I don't know what I wouldn't would have done Anna if I didn't have something really positive to throw myself into, because I didn't feel positive at all. I felt like I was deep, deep, deep in the dark trenches.
Anna David: 10:14 Well, and to speak to your point about you were building what you needed, you know, what you tell your students.
Katie: 10:21 Yeah. We say create the thing you wish existed. And I think there's a line in the book. I forget exactly what it says, but it's something like create the thing that you wish existed when you were stuck in the dark and create it before you're ready. Like, I think that's so important. We have this whole thing and I don't know if it's like largely women or just people in general. I think it's just people, but we never feel like we're ready. I think this is one of the things I love so much about you, Anna in particular is like, I do feel like you just get an idea.
Anna David: 10:56 I do it before like, I'm ready. Always. Yes.
Katie: 10:58 Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, that inspires the people around you too, because you definitely have a high bar, but you also are like, let's just try, let's just try, let's see what happens. And you know, I, a little bit come from that mindset of like, let's, you know, let's throw pasta at the wall and see what sticks, maybe it's the Italian in me, but you don't know sometimes. And I hear this from like super, super successful people all the time. Like sometimes the thing that you really hoped, like musicians say this a lot, like the song that was a hit was like the one that they just kind of like spit out and they were like, nah, but then the one that they're like, Oh, I really think this is going to be a hit, like falls flat. And that's why it's important to create from wherever you are. Like, you know, we want to be in like a really great place, but sometimes our most beautiful creations can come from our shitiest places. So like, I think if you're an artist, meaning a writer or a musician or, you know, a business person, I think business is a form of art, then I think you should be challenging yourself to create from wherever you are.
Anna David: 12:14 Yeah. That's so interesting. I mean, if I could count the number of things I desperately wanted, that I'm so grateful I didn't get now. And the things that just, you know, when I was building Launchpad, I was desperately trying to make online courses work. And I spent, meanwhile, people are coming to me and saying, Hey, I'd love to pay you a lot of money to write and publish my book. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. I'm trying to sell these $17 courses to people who think they're too expensive. And it took me, so it took several people coming to me and being like, I need you to do this. And I will tell you to figure out how for me to get it through my skull. That that was the path. It wasn't my idea of what the path was going to be. So, okay. So how does the book play into it all? So it came from just this, like, you know, try older adolescent kind of escaping into a room to write, but how does it play into the business? The brand, all of it?
Katie: 13:14 Yeah. It's funny. I was telling like my godmother this today, but when I was really young, I mean probably like 14 or something. I remember telling my grandfather who I talk about a lot in the book. He said, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I said, I want to be a writer. And he was like, you can't be a writer. You won't make any money. Right. And that was like, you know, he was kind of like first-generation wealth or some sort of wealth and had started a company. And probably was learning that it was better to live with some money than not with money and wanted his grandkids to learn how to work and be in business. Right. And it's funny cause you know, you always say similar stuff, like the message is delivered differently, but it's funny because you say similar things, Anna, that like it's not building wealth is not about the book necessarily. It's about what opportunities come from it. And so it's interesting because I look back and I'm like, wow, I really did take my grandfather's advice.
14:22 I built a company before I wrote a book, but I was always writing, you know? And I think that's really important. Like the people are always writing in the backgrounds of their lives, the way it played out for me, like very literally is I really spent the last two years not to scare people, but spent the last two years, a lot of nights and weekends writing because I was running my company and, you know, and dealing with everything else that was going on. And so, you know, I think that like the business aspect is so interesting. And like for me, it was about, I wanted to get my business established and settled before I went to publish a book because I didn't fully know who I was yet. I don't think it has to happen one way or another. But I do think that writing a book can very much be and is often tied to having a business. And that like this overarching thing is your brand. You know, who you are, how you serve the world, what your purpose is, what you're here to offer, and all of those things.
15:36 And so I don't know for me, like they go super hand in hand. I know the book is not a lot about my business. It's not, I don't think it's very much about the business. It's about what was happening in the background with my business, but you know, but it's so integral in like who I am. And I know that the book is going to open up so many other doors. I mean, even just like putting it on Amazon, like Amazon is a total search engine in and of itself. Like as a business owner, you're always looking for people to find you. And I know that people are going to find me and I think books have like legs, right. They have this viral sort of ability. And so for me, that's like the most exciting part of it is just seeing, I don't know, but seeing what other doors it could and will open.
Anna David: 16:28 Oh my God, that's you just said so many things I want to unpack. You know, first of all, I was raised by the same people I was told, you know, no, you can't be a writer. You have to go to law school. Like they were mystified by my desire. And I really, they didn't say it in the nicest way and I was really defiant about it. And so I think that I was so determined to prove them wrong. I mean, my grandmother would send me articles about how no writers make it. And you know, and I always wanted to be from the kind of family that, you know, that says like, you can do it yet. I'll tell you the most successful people I know are from the families who said you can't do it. And the ones who were just told how amazing they are, the sort of gold ribbon society.
Katie: 17:16 Totally.
Anna David: 17:17 Yeah. Are just like, don't understand why things are so hard. And so I was so determined to prove them wrong, that I crank out six books in six years for Harper Collins. Like I've made it. And I remember calling my dad and being like, I just sold by six book and he goes, well, you would've made more money as a lawyer. And because the family value was so about money. I think that I really went in the opposite direction. And so I was a broke writer. And then I just sort of woke up and said, there's nothing admirable about being broke, working this hard. And being broke. Writers may be undervalued, but writing skills are highly valued. So how can I take my skill set and do and make money? And then setting up this company was the way I'm able to do that. And I think that that's why I preach it all the time, because a lot of people say, well, I'm going to write a book. I'm going to make all this money. Like, we all think it's going to be different for us, when you go into it without this mindset. And it took me so long to learn it, but I always say you won't make money from a book, but you can make a shitload of money from having a book.
Katie: 18:37 I love that. It's so true. Yeah. I mean, I don't know yet I'll find out in two weeks or a week, but, you know, I really do hear you with that. And I think it's people it's important for people to know that and to be aware of that, just that they're not like going in with, you know, missed expectations, like, yeah, it's an incredible vehicle, you know, and you know that, and you've seen that. I was sort of the opposite though. Like I went, like build the business route and then my creativity was sort of cut off. Like I said, I was always writing in the background and writing things down and hearing these little threads of things. I mean, truly, there's like certain lines that I wrote probably five or six years ago, just journaling that are made it into the book. And that's really cool for me. Like I loved scrapbooking growing up and like, to me it felt like that. Yeah. So you and I are so kindred.
Anna David: 19:32 We really are, I was obsessed with scrapbooks, go on.
Katie: 19:35 Yes. But that's what it felt like to me is like pulling all these pieces together of myself from the past, from the present, even from the future, you know, and I talk about like connecting with your future self in the book, but my creativity had really gone flat and I will say Anna, and I think I said this a little bit in the book, at least in my acknowledgements, and I don't want to get too emotional, but you know, really going through the process of writing this book and you've been such a huge part of that. Like, it really did bring me back to life. I mean, I, my faith, my outlook on the world, like I had lost so much of that vibrancy that I had. And you know, I always said to myself, or really to God more, at least for me is like, if I'm going to go through all of this, like you better make it worth it, both to myself. And, you know, to, to the powers that be, and, you know, there's, I am in no way saying that, like losing my brother or any of those things are worth it because I've now written a book, like no way, no, how, not, what I'm here to preach. But I will say that being able to literally glow through what I go through, but take my pain and make it something that is pretty and funny and touching. And I'm getting so many, like incredible messages from people who have pre-ordered and, you know, like, not that it's worth it, but it makes it like, make a little more sense in my brain.
Anna David: 21:15 Totally. And I mean, in 12 step that's the whole thing is we go through this in order to be able to help someone else through this. And, you know, cause otherwise it can be really hard to make sense of these things that happen to us and totally you get to help. And that's why books are so important because there's only so much work we can do one-on-one with people, by putting it in a book you're able to help hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. I mean, I've never gotten to that many people, but let's just be optimistic. And I love that it was so healing for you because I think that's another part of it. I don't know of anything more therapeutic than, well therapy and 12 step are quite therapeutic, but the next on the list is writing for me.
Katie: 22:08 Yeah. And like, you know, like to the level of like my brother gets to live on, you know, and my family had started a foundation in his name and you know, it still exists. We're still working at it and people write and say like, Oh, because of how openly you guys are talking about mental health and addiction. Like, you know, my sister is like doing so much better, just like random stories. And like, I know that Bo is like so proud of himself. Like I talk a lot in the book about building a relationship with someone who's quote unquote on the other side or his past. And I know a lot of people will think that's super weird, but for me it like literally again, like saved my brain because I was like, Oh, there's a whole chapter that's called. He's not dead. And after getting the call, like Bo's dad, you need to come home to write that and to decide to use that as the title was like, so ballsy for me. And also, so like, I'm going to establish what happened here, you know? And my whole family really believes that Bose energy is still available.
23:17 I don't know if this is too out there, but and I shared this on Instagram the other day, but I was doing like a card reading. I don't know if you're like into that kind of stuff at all. So I have this taro deck or this like deck of cards. That's like, I don't know about connecting with dead people. Right. Cause like, that's one of my hobbies. And I literally pulled a card the other day when I was like anxious about the book stuff and blah, blah, blah. And it's their messages from people who have passed, you know, quote unquote and it says I'm not dead. And I'm like, this is after like, you know, I mean, this was wow the other day. And I'm like, Bo you little sucker, you know, it's just funny. Like, and I say too, in the book, my greatest level of want, I thought that it was for my brother to stay alive. But what it really was for my brother to fulfill his purpose and like he's doing that and I'm helping him do that. And so it's like, it's not that it's like, Oh yeah, happy story, the end. But it's like hard story. Let's figure out what ending we'd rather have here. Or I guess we're in the middle of it. But you know, you get to write your life. And for me, writing was part of how I rewrote my life.
Anna David: 24:29 Yeah. I mean, I always say this, it's like, you get to rewrite the story with you as the hero or heroine. Yeah. It didn't happen to us. It happened for us. And here, let me tell you the story. And like you said, it's the middle of it. We get to retell the stories all the time. So, okay. And so in terms of the brand and the possibilities, like what are your dream possibilities? Sure, more people are going Amazon is the third largest search engine in the world. So people are going to find you, but is it speaking? Like what would you most want this book to do for you?
Katie: 25:07 Oh my God. I don't know. I mean, I feel like it could be like a movie, like I'm so open and I don't want to like pigeonhole the universe. So like I'm really open and certainly I want to be speaking and you know, I see myself on like big stages whenever we're able to do that again. And I don't know how long it will take me or I don't even know if that's what I'm going to want in three years. I mean, you really don't know, but I would say that my greatest level of want for the book, my highest level intention is for it to be a vehicle of change. Like I think it can save people's lives to be honest. And I, maybe that sounds like a ego, but I don't know. I wrote parts of the book for sure, but like God had a hand in it as well. And I know my brother was guiding me too, so I don't really know if it's like for me to say, but I think it could go a lot of places and I'm super down for that ride. Yeah.
Anna David: 26:14 Yeah. I love it. And I will say this too, that though it was a struggle to get out. Like once you knew where it was. Well, first of all, I loved how open you were to suggestions because I knew you'd worked really hard and I kept wanting to dig in there and be like, okay, now let's do this. Now let's do this. I even tried to change the title. You would not have it. And it's good. It's good. But it's, I think once we know where we're going, I think a lot of writers get super off track because they're just, they're going to writing workshops and they're getting advice from this person and then they're writing and then they, you know, and that's why I'm always sort of hammering home structure and have a plan because if you try to write a book on your own without help or by Googling editors, like you could be doing this for years, decades.
Katie: 27:05 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think like you have so much experience, your team has so much experience. Like I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't have been able to, I wouldn't have been able to publish this book without you and without our partnerships. So I am extremely grateful.
Anna David: 27:23 I wasn't trying to get you to say that, but I will say so we met listeners when Katie was on the podcast. This is like the only, you know, I made a list recently of all our clients and how they all came to me. And you were the only one where it's like, we, we, I was just like, who is this girl? It wasn't even over zoom. So I never even saw your face. No, maybe was over zoom. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I just said, I want to hang out. And you said, well, I happened to be coming to LA next week. Let's have brunch. We have like nine hour brunch where we talked about Lisso and then, and then we just kept chatting. And then I was, I was really surprised actually, when you reached out to me, you were like, I want to talk to you about a book because I knew you already had plans and it had been gone anyway, I was thrilled. And I've been really thrilled with this experience.
Katie: 28:17 Well, I found myself like really reading all of your emails and then like saving them like a weirdo. And like, I don't do that with a lot of people. I don't like people's emails. My favorite thing is unsubscribing. So like I, and, you know, you had just been like very reliable, like when I had a little question about anything, you know, you were just it's hard to find people that you can like count on, you know? And so I sound like I'm doing commercial now, but really from my heart. I was like, I think I actually called you one day in like a panic and was like, I'm freaking out. And you're like, you just need to have fun. And I was like, what in the world is she talking about? But I was really, look, my book meant a lot to me. It still means a lot to me. Right. So there's like this careful balance between like holding your baby and like, like setting her free. And I just like, you can't do that with anybody. Like I just was nervous and that's okay. Like, and I remember I was like, Katie, just because you're nervous to work with Anna doesn't mean it's wrong just because you're nervous.
Anna David: 29:25 Cause your just nervous. If it had gone awry, you know, then it, cause we have a personal relationship. I, yeah, I was yeah, it's funny. Cause I remember exactly where I was walking when you called me. And I because we relate so much, I could hear the anxiety in your voice. And I've had, you know, six miserable book releases with Harper Collins and two glorious ones with myself. And I was like, I want you to have a glorious experience. And then we decided to work together.
Katie: 29:57 I think there was this part of me that had disbelief that it was even possible for me to enjoy the process because let's be real. I've had a lot of crazy . And like, I'm not, I'm not one of those people. That's used to things being easy. I'm used to things being hard. So when you were like, you can enjoy this. This can be fun. We can take a lot of the work off your plate. I was like, I thought there was no way in hell, but now being on the other side, it's been incredible experience. I've gotten to know myself even more. I feel really, really, really great about what I'm putting out into the world. And I'm somebody who 100% once my face or my name and in this case, my face and my name next to something, I feel really proud of. I'm like a total perfectionist. And yeah, like I said, I just feel really grateful.
Anna David: 30:49 I'm so psyched. I'm and I feel grateful for you. So, so as we wrap up, tell people how they can find your book. And do you want to give like a couple sentence summary?
Katie: 31:00 Yeah. So you can go to amazon.com and type in, At Least You Look Good or my name, right? I don't know?
Anna David: 31:08 Yeah. But you also have a site right? For the book.
Katie: 31:11 Yeah. Go to innerglowcircle.com/book, easy to remember. And the book is about what I've been talking about. It's how I learned to Glow AKA survive through everything I was going through when I got Lyme lost my little brother and was, was trying to leave a toxic, toxic, abusive relationship. And it's about the ups and the downs, my, what I've been hearing. And what I also know from experience is that it's the kind of book that will make you laugh out loud and also cry. So it's funny when people are like texting me and they're like also reading while they're working out or something, or they're like in a public place, which you can't go a ton of public places right now, but they're like, I'm in a coffee shop, reading your book. And you know, I'm crying. And I don't know, it's just cool to have people have that experience. But I think the book is incredibly healing and there are some self-helpy kind of exercises, but you know what someone said to me, she said I've read so many self-help books, but after reading your book, I feel like I've never read a self-help book because yours was actually so helpful. And it's just very authentic. I'm very honest. And I talk about love and loss and how we can use the experience of loss to really get back to love very quickly. It's really a book about resilience.
Anna David: 32:43 Well, this has been delightful, Katie, thank you so much for being my guest and y'all listeners. Thank you so much for listening. Go grab Katie's book ASAP. You will not regret it and I'll see you next time slash hear you. I won't hear you. You'll hear me.
Katie: 32:59 Thanks Anna.
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"Create from wherever you are. Sometimes our most beautiful creations can come from our shitiest places."
November 25, 2020
How Do I Get My Book in Book Stores?
How Do I Get My Book in Book Stores?
Today's episode is another one of those Q&A things, where I'm answering either questions people have sent me about writing and publishing or questions that I'm asked over and over. Today's question is: how do I get my book in book stores?
The short answer is: don't rely on your publisher.
The longer answer is in this episode.
Don't forget: if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM me on Instagram at @annabdavid.
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
How Publishers Lie to You
How to Get Your Book in Stores Yourself
How to Get Your Book in Barnes and Noble
Why Does This Matter?
But What About Airport Book Stores?
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to Launch Pad, a podcast hosted by me, Anna David, where I talk to the world's most successful entrepreneurs and authors about how to launch a book and what a book can do for your career. And before I forget, by the way, this is episode 338, and I am answering the question today, how do I get my book into bookstores?
How Publishers Lie to You
So my background is I come from traditional publishing. I published six books with Harper Collins, and I really believed everything they told me. And so when they told me that this bookstore doesn't want you, I just believed them. So my first books, the first two weeks, they were in Barnes and Noble and Borders back when that store existed and then a bunch of other indie stores all over, including my local favorite, Book Soup.
And then when those copies sold, the books never came back except for Book Soup, because I had a special relationship with them. And then I would call literally call crying. I'm sure they didn't love that and say, "Why won't Skylight have my books?" And I would hear "They don't want your books." So I went around nursing this resentment for years...people would say, "Can I get your book in bookstores?" And I'd say, "No, they don't want my books."
How to Get Your Book in Stores Yourself
Lo and behold, I start this publishing company. And I have a client, Emily Lynn Paulson, who got her book in 60 bookstores. And I have to say to her, how did you do that? And she explained that she asked the members of her advanced reader team, if they would go to their local bookstore and ask and say, "Do you have this book?"
And then say, "I'm putting together a book club. I would much rather order this book from you over Amazon," which is music to any bookseller's ears. And that's how she got her book in bookstores. So I discovered randomly...I go into, wait let me tell you back story on Barnes and Noble; in 2005, when my first book came out, they talked about this woman says Sessalee Hensley. If Sessalee liked your book, you were in, you were made, you were going to be a number one New York Times bestseller because she was the buyer for Barnes and Noble. The rumor was she had worked as a clerk in some random Barnes and Noble in Tennessee or whatever, and worked her way up. Now I wasn't the anointed one by her. By the way, she was fired a few years ago. So that whole thing is over.
How to Get Your Book in Barnes and Noble
Then, I walked into my local Barnes and Noble about a month and a half ago. And I was just chit-chatting with the guy who worked there. And I mentioned in passing that I'm an author. And he says, "Oh my God, do we have your books?" And I said, "Oh no, no, no, you guys aren't interested in my books." And he said, "Well, why don't I order them?" He looks them up. He places an order. He said, "Hey, when your books are in, come in and sign them. And then we can really hawk them as special signed books."
Why Does This Matter?
So many people when they talk to me about wanting to publish a book traditionally, which is to say, sell a book to a publisher, they say, "Well, I really want to be sent on tour. And I really want my book in stores."
Well, authors don't get sent on tour, whatever we're in COVID time. Anyway, even before that, the only authors that were getting sent on tour were the authors who could well afford to fund their own tours.
And it blows my mind that it is actually easier for me to get the books I publish myself into bookstores than it was when my books were published by Harper Collins.
But What About Airport Bookstores?
There are a lot of people will say to me also, "I want to sell my book at the airport bookstores—at Hudson news. I know travelers would love it." Well, what's happened with Hudson News is...I've heard different numbers, but that's pay to play. Though not for everybody. I mean, they're ordering Simon Sinek's book or JK Rowling's book or whatever, but anyone else who wants to get in there, I've heard anything from $3000 to $10,000, just to have your book sold there.
And I have a client, Darren Prince who did this crazy thing. He wanted his book in Hudson News. And so he walked by when he was going on a trip and he showed his book to the guy who worked there and the guy's like, "Wow, this is an awesome book. I love it." Darren said, "Let me leave a couple of copies for you." And then when he was coming back through town he went into the store again and the guy said, "Oh my God, all these people came in and they were so interested in your book. I wished that we could sell it." So it's almost like the dude saved $20,000. And it looked like his book was in Hudson News. Alrighty. So the long and the short of it is that you are your own greatest advocate here.
Another (Potential) Way to Get Your Book in Stores
I heard a rumor. I will tell you, I have not tried this, that you can call a bookstore and say, "Hey, do you have so-and-so's book in?" They say, "No, we don't. We don't carry that book." And you can say, "Can you order two copies" and not have to pay. And if the person who orders the copies doesn't come to pick it up then the bookstore will sell your books.
One key thing to mention is for your book to be ordered, it has to be listed in a distributor site. Ingram Spark is the one that my company uses. And what that means is that you pay $50 and your book is available, not just on Amazon, but it can be in Barnes and Noble, Walmart, Target, all the places. So if you list it through Ingram, except in very rare cases, it will then be on the website for Barnes and Noble and on the website for Walmart and on the website for Target.
And in this day and age, when people aren't even really going to stores as much, that can mean just as much as being sold in the store. It doesn't mean being ordered by, say, Walmart, because that is fricking huge: they buy mass quantities and very few books. But in this sort of world of perception and building up our own sort of stories and whatnot, that's the next best thing.
So that's it that. This was me, Anna David from Launch Pad answering the question: how do I get my book in bookstores? Remember, I would love to answer your question and give you a shout out. So just DM me on Instagram @annabdavid, and I will see you next time.
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"It blows my mind that it is actually easier for me to get the books I publish myself into bookstores than it was when my books were published by Harper Collins."
November 18, 2020
How Do I Build Up My Profile Enough for a Publisher to Want Me?
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The word profile used to mean what we looked like from the side. Nowadays it means what we look like online.
And for better or worse, this has become increasingly important when it comes to selling and promoting a book. So this week I'm answering a question from a listener that's all about how to build a profile, particularly on Instagram, and why publishers may or may not care.
And don't forget: if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM me on Instagram at @annabdavid.
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR IT!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Hi, this is Anna David. You are listening to Launch Pad podcast, where normally I talk to the world's most successful authors and entrepreneurs about how a book can change their career and how to launch a book. But today I am answering a question from a listener and she is known on Instagram as @writinginblackandwhite, please go follow her. She's pretty fabulous.
So she wrote me and asked: can you speak to the platform you need to get a book deal. When you are an unknown, she mentions not having many Instagram followers, which is another reason you need to go follow her.
Here's what I have to say about that. One of the most disgusting things that's happened to publishing over the past decade is that a total idiot—I say with love and respect—with 3 million Instagram followers will get a book deal and a brilliant person with the best story you've ever heard, who's got 106 Instagram followers may not.
And this isn't because publishers are horrible people, it's that they look at it as a business. People want to invest in something they believe will sell. It's gross, but it's true. So the problem I think is less how do you build up your Instagram and more, how do you change your perception around this? How do you build up such a great audience that you don't even need a publisher?
So there are all sorts of ways you can do that. I have a course that talks about all the different ways you can do that. But one thing you could do is subscribe to something called Help A Reporter Out, which is also called HARO. And what happens when you subscribe is you start getting three emails a day of all the stories that journalists are working on. And these are journalists from the New York Times, from Forbes, from Entrepreneur, from wherever, and they put what source they're looking for.
So if you are an expert in anything—if you are a serious runner, if you are a sober person who has gotten into recovery, if you are anything, you do not need to have a special degree or even a book yet—you just need to be a source for that. So subscribe to HARO and start responding.
When journalists put out calls to action of sources that are looking for, you can start building up a profile. I did that. There was a query about somebody who was looking for a source for a Fortune magazine story that he was writing. I wrote him a two-sentence email. He ended up quoting me and then quoting me in a series of other stories that he wrote. So that works.
Also, you can try to connect to influencers. Now here's something I did. I really wanted to connect to James Altucher. I had read his book, Choose Yourself—by the way, I did a previous podcast episode all about him. So go back and grab that. And what I did to get his attention, because he's a very busy guy with lots of people going at him, is this: I wrote a story called "My Favorite Self-help Author Isn't a Self-Help Author." And I posted that story. I messaged him on Facebook. What he then did is he put that story out to his hundreds of thousands of newsletter followers. And then we became friends. So, so I didn't do it going, "Oh, well maybe he'll promote this" but he did. Just find the people that you are fascinated by who have big followings and see how you can express that and serve them.
That being said, if you do want to focus on building up your Instagram, there are definitely ways to do that.
I would say the main thing to do is ask yourself: what is the story I'm telling? Am I telling a story about a mother giving up her child for adoption? Am I telling you a story about why you need to share your story? That's the story I'm telling on Instagram. Once you know your story, make sure everything that you post serves that story, whether that's a picture or a quote card.
I recommend if you want to make your Instagram very attractive, make it a gorgeous grid where you're alternating: one's a picture, one's a quote card. So you can go to canva.com for free, take your best quotes. Make them into quote cards and then make sure your captions serve your story. Maybe it's a picture of you drinking coffee. What does that have to do with giving up your kid for adoption?
I don't know. That's up to you to figure out. Also use hashtags. They may look cheesy. You may judge them, but I will tell you my very first client ever, who came after me to publish his book—I wasn't even a book publisher yet—found me cause he was searching hashtags and that's how he became aware of me.
So then you've got all this great stuff. So how do you get people to know about it? The smartest thing to do is start going to the leaders in your field who have big Instagram followings, start following them, start liking them, start saying, Hey, I'm here. There are services that you can use like Boostgram and other services where they go in and start madly following all these people in the hopes that those people will follow you back. And then they unfollow them. It's kind of risky. I hear that Instagram sort of shadow bans you for that. And can lock you out of your Instagram.
So you really want to do it the right way. And the right way is pretty labor-intensive. So I would only recommend doing it if that would be fun for you, because the truth of the matter is even, let's say you do all of this work and you've got 5,000 Instagram followers; a publisher isn't going to be jumping all over that. So I will constantly emphasize do what's fun for you to find your audience because the misconception is, "Oh my God, I'm going to have a publisher and they're going to find my audience." They will not. In fact, sometimes they're going to be working against you because they have other authors that are more valuable to that publishing company. So sometimes having them as worse than not having them.
So I hope this helps. Keep sending me questions at @annabdavid on Instagram. And please, please, please let's all go follow this gorgeous girl at @writinginblackand white. See you next time.
November 11, 2020
How Do I Come Up With a Title?
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Rather than interviewing a guest or breaking down an expert author's way of launching a book, this week I'm answering the question: How and when do I come up with a title?
The biggest problem I see with authors and titles is that some become so committed to the one they came up with originally that they won't consider changing it to something that's going to resonate with readers more. I break that down and talk about how my titles have changed and which I think should have changed in this episode.
And if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM on Instagram at @annabdavid.
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR IT!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Hi there. You're listening to Launch Pad podcast, hosted by me Anna David, where we talk about books, how to launch them, what they can do for your career. And we are now answering questions. So when I say we, I mean, I, so please DM me any questions you have that you would like me to answer about writing? Find me on Instagram @annabdavid. And with that, I'm going to answer the question when and how do you come up with a title? So I've talked about this in previous episodes. I did a play by play breakdown of how Tim Ferriss launches a book. So just back and listen to that. If you want to know more, but his first book that launched him like crazy, The Four Hour Workweek, he had all these other titles, like Broad Band and White Sand, Millionaire Chameleon, Drug Dealing for Fun and Profit.
And he bought Google ads to see which of those titles perform better. He even did this crazy experiment where he had a fake cover mocked up and he put it in the Palo Alto Borders. And he went and hid to see which people responded to better. James Altucher, who is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Choose Yourself, has written about how he had all these titles, like The Choose Yourself Era, Pick Yourself and Choose Yourself. And he ran Facebook ads and Choose Yourself came in first by far. I will say that in terms of my, in terms of my own books, my first book, Party Girl, I was very dedicated to that title. I just loved that title. I've talked about that. I talked about this in the Rachel Hollis episode, and I've talked about it before, but when my agent was going out to submit it to publisher, she said, “Ooh, this book called Party Girl just came out, we have to change the title.” And so for the sale, we changed it to The After Party. And then that other Party Girl didn't sell well. So, so we were able to change the title back to Party Girl for the release and that other Party Girl was written of course, by Rachel Hollis. So suffice it to say she's gotten over it that and in retrospect, I don't really know why I fought for that title. Yes. I love that title, but I think if it had been called The After Party, it might have been, it was a little bit dismissed as, as Chick Lit. I mean The New York Post actually said I invented a new sub genre: Chick Lit with a Message. But I think if it hadn't had the title Party Girl it might not have been so easy to dismiss in that way.
So that is definitely something to think about. My fourth book, which is called Falling for Me, I sold it under the title, What I Say I Want, the biography of Tom Sizemore that I wrote, I sold under the title Seizing More: the De-evolution of Tom Sizemore and the title I gave it when it came out was By Some Miracle I Made it Out of There, which is a famous line of his from Saving Private Ryan. And also very much described the experience I had writing that book.
A lot of our clients will come in with titles that we will, we will revamp: Courtney Friel, who's a newscaster on KTLA, came to us and her book at that time was called Pretty Sobering News. And we changed it to Tonight at 10: Kicking Booze and Breaking News. Cause she hosted the 10 o'clock show.
And then we have clients who have a brand. And so if you have a brand already and you are doing your book in order to sort of further support that brand, it should be that name. We did a book for Alexis Haines who has a podcast called Recovering from Reality. So her memoir is called Recovering from Reality. She's in recovery. She's a reality star. Emily Lynn Paulson, we did a book called Highlight Real. She already had a very popular Instagram called Highlight Real Recovery. And so she knew what her title was going to be. And we, you know, used it and kept it. And it was wonderful. You know, but, but I think that a lot of people get committed to a title and they get possibly too attached to it, not realizing what the title is for the title is there.
So you can draw people in so you can make an impact: it should draw attention. And then you have a subtitle, you know, cause we're talking about nonfiction books to break down what that title means. And it's a title that the reader will only understand it if they read the book, it is not a good title. Think about how quickly we make decisions. People have got to know what your book is about to be interested in it. And I also think having titles that are easy to pronounce…my second book was called Bought. Yes, that is easy to pronounce. But whenever I said, “Oh, I have this book and it's called Bought,” people would think I meant, but B O T not B O U G H T. I didn't know till it was out that that wasn't a great title, but, but titles that are easy to spell, easy to say, easy to pronounce.
And it's like, you want a title that someone's going to feel…and this sounds a little ridiculous, but proud saying they read it. We read most books because they're recommended by people we trust. So you want a book that someone's going to say, “I just read this book, it's called, you know, Daring Greatly. And, and so I think that you have to think about it, but most of all, you have to be open to changing it. Don't fall too in love with your title.
And the keywords are important, which is to say, Amazon is the third-largest search engine in the world. So people go to Amazon and search for a topic. And so you want to have keywords that describe what your book what's in your book so that they will find it. But I don't think that's that important. I have almost never gone to Amazon and search for a book using a keyword. I've only really done that as research, not as a way to find a book I want to buy. So I don't think that's such an important thing to focus on, but it is something to think about. And that is it your answer to when and how do I title a book.
Episode 336: How and When Do I Come Up With a Title?
WANT TO WRITE A MEMOIR? DOWNLOAD MY ONE-PAGE MEMOIR STRUCTURE CHEAT SHEET HERE
Rather than interviewing a guest or breaking down an expert author's way of launching a book, this week I'm answering the question: How and when do I come up with a title?
The biggest problem I see with authors and titles is that some become so committed to the one they came up with originally that they won't consider changing it to something that's going to resonate with readers more. I break that down and talk about how my titles have changed and which I think should have changed in this episode.
And if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM on Instagram at @annabdavid.
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR IT!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Hi there. You're listening to Launch Pad podcast, hosted by me Anna David, where we talk about books, how to launch them, what they can do for your career. And we are now answering questions. So when I say we, I mean, I, so please DM me any questions you have that you would like me to answer about writing? Find me on Instagram @annabdavid. And with that, I'm going to answer the question when and how do you come up with a title? So I've talked about this in previous episodes. I did a play by play breakdown of how Tim Ferriss launches a book. So just back and listen to that. If you want to know more, but his first book that launched him like crazy, The Four Hour Workweek, he had all these other titles, like Broad Band and White Sand, Millionaire Chameleon, Drug Dealing for Fun and Profit.
And he bought Google ads to see which of those titles perform better. He even did this crazy experiment where he had a fake cover mocked up and he put it in the Palo Alto Borders. And he went and hid to see which people responded to better. James Altucher, who is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Choose Yourself, has written about how he had all these titles, like The Choose Yourself Era, Pick Yourself and Choose Yourself. And he ran Facebook ads and Choose Yourself came in first by far. I will say that in terms of my, in terms of my own books, my first book, Party Girl, I was very dedicated to that title. I just loved that title. I've talked about that. I talked about this in the Rachel Hollis episode, and I've talked about it before, but when my agent was going out to submit it to publisher, she said, “Ooh, this book called Party Girl just came out, we have to change the title.” And so for the sale, we changed it to The After Party. And then that other Party Girl didn't sell well. So, so we were able to change the title back to Party Girl for the release and that other Party Girl was written of course, by Rachel Hollis. So suffice it to say she's gotten over it that and in retrospect, I don't really know why I fought for that title. Yes. I love that title, but I think if it had been called The After Party, it might have been, it was a little bit dismissed as, as Chick Lit. I mean The New York Post actually said I invented a new sub genre: Chick Lit with a Message. But I think if it hadn't had the title Party Girl it might not have been so easy to dismiss in that way.
So that is definitely something to think about. My fourth book, which is called Falling for Me, I sold it under the title, What I Say I Want, the biography of Tom Sizemore that I wrote, I sold under the title Seizing More: the De-evolution of Tom Sizemore and the title I gave it when it came out was By Some Miracle I Made it Out of There, which is a famous line of his from Saving Private Ryan. And also very much described the experience I had writing that book.
A lot of our clients will come in with titles that we will, we will revamp: Courtney Friel, who's a newscaster on KTLA, came to us and her book at that time was called Pretty Sobering News. And we changed it to Tonight at 10: Kicking Booze and Breaking News. Cause she hosted the 10 o'clock show.
And then we have clients who have a brand. And so if you have a brand already and you are doing your book in order to sort of further support that brand, it should be that name. We did a book for Alexis Haines who has a podcast called Recovering from Reality. So her memoir is called Recovering from Reality. She's in recovery. She's a reality star. Emily Lynn Paulson, we did a book called Highlight Real. She already had a very popular Instagram called Highlight Real Recovery. And so she knew what her title was going to be. And we, you know, used it and kept it. And it was wonderful. You know, but, but I think that a lot of people get committed to a title and they get possibly too attached to it, not realizing what the title is for the title is there.
So you can draw people in so you can make an impact: it should draw attention. And then you have a subtitle, you know, cause we're talking about nonfiction books to break down what that title means. And it's a title that the reader will only understand it if they read the book, it is not a good title. Think about how quickly we make decisions. People have got to know what your book is about to be interested in it. And I also think having titles that are easy to pronounce…my second book was called Bought. Yes, that is easy to pronounce. But whenever I said, “Oh, I have this book and it's called Bought,” people would think I meant, but B O T not B O U G H T. I didn't know till it was out that that wasn't a great title, but, but titles that are easy to spell, easy to say, easy to pronounce.
And it's like, you want a title that someone's going to feel…and this sounds a little ridiculous, but proud saying they read it. We read most books because they're recommended by people we trust. So you want a book that someone's going to say, “I just read this book, it's called, you know, Daring Greatly. And, and so I think that you have to think about it, but most of all, you have to be open to changing it. Don't fall too in love with your title.
And the keywords are important, which is to say, Amazon is the third-largest search engine in the world. So people go to Amazon and search for a topic. And so you want to have keywords that describe what your book what's in your book so that they will find it. But I don't think that's that important. I have almost never gone to Amazon and search for a book using a keyword. I've only really done that as research, not as a way to find a book I want to buy. So I don't think that's such an important thing to focus on, but it is something to think about. And that is it your answer to when and how do I title a book.
November 4, 2020
How Do I Become a Better Writer?
WANT TO WRITE A MEMOIR? DOWNLOAD MY ONE-PAGE MEMOIR STRUCTURE CHEAT SHEET HERE
Rather than interviewing a guest or breaking down an expert author's way of launching a book, this week I'm answering the question: How do I become a better writer?
The short answer is: write. The longer answer is: write and read. The still longer answer is in this episode.
And if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM on Instagram at @annabdavid.
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR IT!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Hi there. This is Launch Pad, a podcast hosted by me, Anna David. I normally talk to authors and entrepreneurs about how to launch a book and what a book can do for your career. But I'm going through a phase where I am answering your questions, and that is anybody who wants to send me a question. Can send me a question the best ways to DM me on Instagram @annabdavid. And I will answer your question by the way, this is episode 335. So let's get into the question. How can I become a better writer? I am going to say that I do not believe anybody becomes a better writer from reading books about writing.
And I am saying this as someone who's written a book about writing. There are fantastic books about writing. Stephen King has a book about writing. Annie Lamott has a book about writing, but I believe the only way we get better as writers is by writing and reading, I majored in creative writing and literary writing in college. And we've, I know it was a long time ago and I was drunk a lot of the time, but I don't remember any professors really teaching us about writing. I remember that we wrote; my senior thesis was a short story. What I spent my last two years in college doing was workshopping stories. We would write our stories and the class would read them and we would give notes on each other's stories. But the other thing that is really important is reading. I coach writers and there was somebody who was briefly in one of my programs and he was writing a memoir and I said, “Well, what are your favorite memoirs?” And he said, “I've never read a memoir.” And I said, “I don't think this program is for you because if you do not love the form, then you shouldn't have the audacity to do it.” Now, this doesn't mean that you should feel like you need to be reading all the time. My reading has fallen off so much. We're all distracted by so many different options for entertainment. I will say I feel a little bit guilty when I don't open a book at night and said, I turn on Netflix, but I still do that. But if you don't like reading at all, writing may not be for you. I think it's for people who really, really care about words. But really the more you write, the better you're going to get, I will say in my membership program, Inner Circle, we launched in March and people would read their writing aloud and it's a group of about 40 people.
And I thought, well, you know, this is pretty average for a group of random people who are amazing people, but who do not have professional writing experience. They gather every single day - I am now recording this at the end of October and every single week since then this same group has gathered. And now we do reading series, which by the way, we do host a reading series. I mean, I host a reading series called See You Last Friday and you should come to it because it's on zoom and anybody can come and read aloud. You can find out more by going to see you last friday.com. But so I get to hear them read aloud there. And I get to see their work when I come to the membership program and nobody's teaching them and they are getting so good and they are getting good because they are putting their butts in the chair every day.
And writing this does not mean that you have to write all day. These people are doing it for an hour a day. So I believe if you want to become a better writer, you have got to commit to writing every day. And it's really about having the habit. The more we do something, the more we want to do something, whether that's working out or meditating or writing. And it's so easy, once you slack off one day to just slack off the next; it just gets harder and harder to go back. So if it's possible to just make a commitment, I will say a friend of mine, who's a TV writer Chris Brancato; he created Narcos and all these other shows. And he told me he's a prolific writer. He told me that when, what he has to do when he's feeling blocked is set a 10-minute timer and just go, “Okay, I'm just going to write for 10 minutes.
That's what I commit to.” And then of course, once after 10 minutes, he's in the flow and he wants to do it. I will say what I did when writing my most recent book is I decided to not get online until I had written three pages or whatever it was. And so my brain was totally clear and it would just be me and my coffee and I would write. So having some sort of a ritual around it I think is important, but really it's about the accountability. I wrote my first book because, and forgive me if you've heard me say this before my friend, Melanie and I both wanted to write novels and we talked about it and she said, “Well, why don't we send each other 500 words every Sunday?” And I said, yes, thinking I, you know, I live in LA where no one's word means anything.
I was just like, “Oh, well, she doesn't mean it.” And the following Sunday, I received her 500 words and I panicked realizing I had to write 500 words so that she didn't know that I didn't think she was actually serious. So I fire those off and thought, phew, don't have to do that again. And the following Sunday, I received her next 500 words. So I had to do the same thing. So at that point I had a thousand words and she ended up…she got this big job. She ended up not following through on her book and that, and those first thousand words are the same thousand words that are in my book Party Girl, which was the first of my eight books. So I never would have done it if I hadn't made that agreement, kind of unwillingly, to my friend to be accountable.
And so that's really it. I received emails from people all the time who say, you know, “Everybody tells me I'm a great writer, I've got this amazing story.” And I think that the more you write, the more you're going to see how bad some of your stuff really is. Cause sometimes these people will send me their writing and you know, they've written this paragraph into them and you know, it's just, you gotta, you know, you got to kill your darlings as you go. You got to start to know, “Oh, that's not good. That's not me at my best. That's cliched.” And know what's really original. And it's really from the heart. And you only know that by sort of subscribing to the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours thing. That doesn't mean you have to write for 10,000 hours, but it does mean that the only way to become a better writer is to write. And that is my answer to this question. Thank you so much for listening.
Episode 335: How Do I Become a Better Writer?
WANT TO WRITE A MEMOIR? DOWNLOAD MY ONE-PAGE MEMOIR STRUCTURE CHEAT SHEET HERE
Rather than interviewing a guest or breaking down an expert author's way of launching a book, this week I'm answering the question: How do I become a better writer?
The short answer is: write. The longer answer is: write and read. The still longer answer is in this episode.
And if you want me to answer your writing question on this show, DM on Instagram at @annabdavid.
CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS BELOW TO HEAR IT!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Hi there. This is Launch Pad, a podcast hosted by me, Anna David. I normally talk to authors and entrepreneurs about how to launch a book and what a book can do for your career. But I'm going through a phase where I am answering your questions, and that is anybody who wants to send me a question. Can send me a question the best ways to DM me on Instagram @annabdavid. And I will answer your question by the way, this is episode 335. So let's get into the question. How can I become a better writer? I am going to say that I do not believe anybody becomes a better writer from reading books about writing.
And I am saying this as someone who's written a book about writing. There are fantastic books about writing. Stephen King has a book about writing. Annie Lamott has a book about writing, but I believe the only way we get better as writers is by writing and reading, I majored in creative writing and literary writing in college. And we've, I know it was a long time ago and I was drunk a lot of the time, but I don't remember any professors really teaching us about writing. I remember that we wrote; my senior thesis was a short story. What I spent my last two years in college doing was workshopping stories. We would write our stories and the class would read them and we would give notes on each other's stories. But the other thing that is really important is reading. I coach writers and there was somebody who was briefly in one of my programs and he was writing a memoir and I said, “Well, what are your favorite memoirs?” And he said, “I've never read a memoir.” And I said, “I don't think this program is for you because if you do not love the form, then you shouldn't have the audacity to do it.” Now, this doesn't mean that you should feel like you need to be reading all the time. My reading has fallen off so much. We're all distracted by so many different options for entertainment. I will say I feel a little bit guilty when I don't open a book at night and said, I turn on Netflix, but I still do that. But if you don't like reading at all, writing may not be for you. I think it's for people who really, really care about words. But really the more you write, the better you're going to get, I will say in my membership program, Inner Circle, we launched in March and people would read their writing aloud and it's a group of about 40 people.
And I thought, well, you know, this is pretty average for a group of random people who are amazing people, but who do not have professional writing experience. They gather every single day - I am now recording this at the end of October and every single week since then this same group has gathered. And now we do reading series, which by the way, we do host a reading series. I mean, I host a reading series called See You Last Friday and you should come to it because it's on zoom and anybody can come and read aloud. You can find out more by going to see you last friday.com. But so I get to hear them read aloud there. And I get to see their work when I come to the membership program and nobody's teaching them and they are getting so good and they are getting good because they are putting their butts in the chair every day.
And writing this does not mean that you have to write all day. These people are doing it for an hour a day. So I believe if you want to become a better writer, you have got to commit to writing every day. And it's really about having the habit. The more we do something, the more we want to do something, whether that's working out or meditating or writing. And it's so easy, once you slack off one day to just slack off the next; it just gets harder and harder to go back. So if it's possible to just make a commitment, I will say a friend of mine, who's a TV writer Chris Brancato; he created Narcos and all these other shows. And he told me he's a prolific writer. He told me that when, what he has to do when he's feeling blocked is set a 10-minute timer and just go, “Okay, I'm just going to write for 10 minutes.
That's what I commit to.” And then of course, once after 10 minutes, he's in the flow and he wants to do it. I will say what I did when writing my most recent book is I decided to not get online until I had written three pages or whatever it was. And so my brain was totally clear and it would just be me and my coffee and I would write. So having some sort of a ritual around it I think is important, but really it's about the accountability. I wrote my first book because, and forgive me if you've heard me say this before my friend, Melanie and I both wanted to write novels and we talked about it and she said, “Well, why don't we send each other 500 words every Sunday?” And I said, yes, thinking I, you know, I live in LA where no one's word means anything.
I was just like, “Oh, well, she doesn't mean it.” And the following Sunday, I received her 500 words and I panicked realizing I had to write 500 words so that she didn't know that I didn't think she was actually serious. So I fire those off and thought, phew, don't have to do that again. And the following Sunday, I received her next 500 words. So I had to do the same thing. So at that point I had a thousand words and she ended up…she got this big job. She ended up not following through on her book and that, and those first thousand words are the same thousand words that are in my book Party Girl, which was the first of my eight books. So I never would have done it if I hadn't made that agreement, kind of unwillingly, to my friend to be accountable.
And so that's really it. I received emails from people all the time who say, you know, “Everybody tells me I'm a great writer, I've got this amazing story.” And I think that the more you write, the more you're going to see how bad some of your stuff really is. Cause sometimes these people will send me their writing and you know, they've written this paragraph into them and you know, it's just, you gotta, you know, you got to kill your darlings as you go. You got to start to know, “Oh, that's not good. That's not me at my best. That's cliched.” And know what's really original. And it's really from the heart. And you only know that by sort of subscribing to the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours thing. That doesn't mean you have to write for 10,000 hours, but it does mean that the only way to become a better writer is to write. And that is my answer to this question. Thank you so much for listening.
