Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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Why don't more people read Self-published authors?

I think it's more along the lines of helping the author. Authors who self-publish rely on the feedback from their readers too, rather than solely their editors. And if the author can manage to get into a groove where their writing, well, tickles your fancy, you can communicate with that author or at least feel pride in knowing you helped with that authors journey.

No, I didn't know that. I know you thought I was rude and callous about calling some members 'drama queens' and mocking them for confusing gratitude from authors about reviews with 'invading' their privacy. And you were right about that. It was meant to be humorous, but I shouldn't have done that. I know it was disrespectful, but it's hard for me to respect drama queens. I'm working on it...
However, I equate 'speshul snowflake' authors with 'drama queens', so the idea that I could be considered a speshul snowflake is ironic to me. :)

I might've, but I'm more interested in 'evil against worse' than 'angels vs. demons'. I'm not your audience.
Like your cover though.

I'm glad you like the cover art.

So your one-star on my story is just because you don't want to read it? I thought you just didn't like the story. I was going to ask your opinion but I couldn't contact you. Couldn't you just make a bookshelf and title it "Books I don't want to read" instead?
The one star kinda hurt, but at the same time it was only pride that took a blow, so I guess it's cool this way. But still, could you consider my suggestion? If not could you explain why?

Hmm, that is a frustrating situation. I can understand your decision then. Also, what's Booklikes?


What's STGRB?

Now, some people just aren't going to learn the nuances of the language no matter what they try or do, and if..."
This is true. I'm one of those people. Grammar isn't a strong suit. For me, characters and storytelling are my focus. I try HARD to get the grammar straightened out (SpellCheck & GrammarCheck are worthless) but in the end I knew I had to publish or die trying. I've been writing all of my life, and my stories are really enjoyed, when I tell them. Attitudes about grammar hurt and scared me so badly in the past that I revised...and revised...and revised some more. I consulted authors who told me: "Just do it. It'll be fine." I had people tell me they didn't want to come near my book because it would be bleeding red ink after they finished a read. Thus, a novel I began in 1970 is now self-published...and I am an old woman. 43 years of revisions have improved the grammar, but I won't say it's perfect. It's just a good story. I wanted people to see it.
Children of Stone: Voices in Crystal

You know, I was wondering if a social site could be so peaceful that it didn't require a block button. Glad to see constants exist.

There were oodles of posts in here, but the one I wanted to comment on had to do with intruding in a person's personal space to address their review. I would have to agree with that.
If I review Mary Smith's book, I wouldn't want Mary Smith appearing in my personal timeline and speaking there, whether it was good or bad. That starts to cross a line. Even if it's good, it leaves the impression that maybe next time the response might not be so good, unless I keep praising her work.
What I do as an author is post on MY public fan timeline (on Twitter, Facebook, Google+ etc) with thanks to the person for the positive review. That way they see the thanks, and it's also kept separate from her private world. If she chooses to interact she can. If she chooses to leave it, that's fine too.
Lisa


I hear ya. My post addressed the OP, but I realized after I posted it that we weren't in Kansas anymore. :-) Cheers.


That's OK, I was reviewing a New York Times bestselling book when I came across the following line:
“Patrick was fishing his necktie out of the prawns of the fake potted palm near the door.”
I laughed my fool head off, then wrote the author. She said nobody else out of her numerous readers had alerted her to that error.
I think it can depend on the scene. If you're into it and racing through the reading, your eyes skip along and can sometimes "auto correct" for you :).
Lisa

It is, alas, no more.
(evil, very evil, chuckle)"
Should I be worried? O_o

That's not brazen confidence btw. I'm sure there are issues with my novel. I hope there's not a lot, b..."
Thanks Joe... at least I know I'm not alone. I just found another one (gasp) today. LOL!

But its is up to SP authors to break that stigma.


I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captain, so I'm not sure how that would work."
Commodores do out rank captains. Commodore actually is an out dated rank ( in the US anyway) that was replaced by Rear Admiral (lower half). They split Rear admiral into 2 halves Commodore (O-7) became the lower half and the O-8 is the upper half.
Okay that is your Naval History lesson for the day boys and girls.

Grimlock, one technical error you made in this post. SPAs can write in copyrighted worlds, they just have to get permission first. Which is very hard even for trad pubs. You usually have send in samples of your writing, have a fan base etc. So as I said very difficult for a SPA but not impossible.

I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captain, so I'm not sure how that would work."
Commodores do ..."
This is more awesome than it should be.

I resurrect this thread and it's bringing out the demons out of some people! Lol.
All in good faith I guess? I mean it's certainly stirring up some very good discussions for sure.


Even if I wasn't such a prude, I'd be wary, and it's warranted. There's no censorship, and unfortunately, there are many books out there that promote unhealthy choices that are downright offensive to our value and norm system.
From what I understand, public libraries in the U.S. won't hold self published books for that reason (and there you have another factor that limits circulation).

So absolutely self-published books CAN get into libraries. You just have to do that promotion yourself, to demonstrate to them why they should carry them.
Lisa

I never did look into the issue myself, my comment was based on other indie authors' experiences.

Censorship is a very controversial topic, but when I speak of 'downright offensive', I was referring to books that condone and promote child molestation, incest,extreme hate, etc, -- all issues, that, at least in North America, are usually found offensive.
I didn't follow the story closely, but about two months ago, many indie authors I know had their books pulled off the virtual shelves when amazon did a purge of such books I've mentioned above, and unfortunately, these authors books got knocked off too, though their books didn't fall under those categories. My point is, there are such books out there, and sometimes the reader is unaware of the offensive content at time of purchase.

Tranny Manface? Wow sounds like a 4 year old made that one up.

Cool about Grimlock in the book. BTW I never mentioned it but Grimlock is one of my favs too.
I was just making a technical note. But as you noticed, I qualified it too. I don't know of any Non-super established authors that have been allowed to use copyrighted material.

Also sorry for typos and any misspelled words, I am tired and headed to bed.

There are a lot of people who just want to publish whatever dribble they can to make money. I've seen a post on other sites where a person wanted to know if their 2,500 word story could be classified as a novel and could they sell it. Then there are the people who are "publishing" every month or so whatever they have without putting much work at all into editing, typesetting, cover art, etc. Self-publishing has a bad rap because there's no one at the gates to filter out the crap.
With all that said if you're a SPA or want to be it is your/our responsibility to put the work in and give readers something of quaity, after all it's not just about the author. If you don't want to do this work than don't SP. I'll always remember in the "Complete Guide to Self-Publishing" the author describes how the self-published author must wear many hats. When you listen to music don't you want to listen to someone who can sing, write quality songs or play/create music that sounds good (to you)? Or how about when you watch TV? Movies? Or even commercials? Why should writing be any different?
So I don't blame people who don't read SP work. It's true we have to prioritize our time. Yet another reason why self-promotion is so important, so we can get our work out there and attract people to it. If you've done a good job then your work will speak for itself and hopefully earn some credibility as a quality book.
Take care,
eLPy
author of "That Which Lives Within"
www.littlefacepublications.com

As much as I love self-publishing, I think it's fair to say that getting praise for self-publishing something is akin to getting praise for printing it off your printer. Yes, it's an achievement for having taken that first step. You finished the novel. You got it all together and finished. But it is still only the first step. It could be completely awful. That step is a mark of dedication - but not of quality.
Most people are seeking the sign of quality.
To me an indication of quality is not that a work is published, but that it earned sales. I know that then involves marketing and such. However, with all the sites that help you through marketing nowadays, if you write well and have that same dedication it took to finish the book, you should be able to properly market it.
I think people are more impressed when you say "I got X sales" because now that is a sign that you created good-quality work, vs just filling a page full of XXXXXXXs and printed it out.

I deal with traumatized people on a daily basis, so it's not like I don't respect their feelings, but I also teach traumatized people how to get back to the point where they can distinguish between real threats and imagined threats. As such, it's important to use the right words.
Just like you get justifiably riled up about people using Grammar Nazi instead of Grammar Police, I took offense on their use of 'invading our private space' instead of 'intruding on our public space'. If someone 'invades' they do so on purpose and with malicious intentions, i.e. Hitler invading Poland, thugs invading a home. Intruding, on the other hand, can be accidental, as I judged most authors to show gratitude in a public review to be doing this with the best intentions.
And my criticism was not intended to be disrespectful of the reviewers's feelings, but to convince them that *anything* you say on the internet should be considered *public*.
I deal with men and women getting stalked by their exes, faced with real violence, and they still think that just using a nickname is enough to prevent them from being found.
No matter how many virtual walls you throw up, privacy on the internet remains an illusion.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "One of my friends shared a story where she was talking about a book and the author thanked her on twitter. She said she and her friends felt like they were being watched by the author, and the conversation dried up. Again, just one particular example of why some people adore authors - even if they don't necessarily want to talk to them, either in real life, or online, if they're not invited into the conversation."
Unless I'm mistaken, your friends were talking about the book *publicly*, just as a review on GoodReads can be read by *everyone*. As such, it is not 'private space'. You made your profile 'private', which means only your friends can see your profile and read your reviews. That is 'perceived private' space.
If you are talking on your cell phone in public transport, people *will* overhear you and your privacy is an illusion. You can tell people who butt in that you're having a private conversation, but you cannot expect people not to listen in on your conversation. If that upsets someone, they shouldn't hold (potentially sensitive) conversations in public (transport).
If you call from your car, you can 'reasonably assume' that your conversation is private (although my suspense fiction research shows that it's incredibly easy to hack into a hands-free set and listen in on everything that's said in the car, even if the phone is switched off). That's why government officials are often instructed on cell phone use. While eavesdropping on 'private' conversations might be illegal, it's still happening.
So there's 'public' space (GR), 'perceived private' space (private GR profiles, email,Instant Messaging, cell phones), and 'private' space (your home). Anytime you venture outside your home, you *will* be watched and heard and read. And you won't know by whom, so it's practical and realistic to assume that anything you do or say or write down will be observed. That's not paranoia, because anyone even mildly interested in eavesdropping can find tons of information on how it's done. Scary, but reality.
Turning a 'public' space into a 'perceived private' space is dangerous, because you are not guaranteed *actual* privacy, but merely the illusion thereof.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Personally, I'd probably be thrilled if an author dropped by and said thank you on my review, because I'm honest, no matter who's in the room, but I can definitely understand why some people are more hesitant. It's why I tell authors it's their decision, but to keep in mind the potential negatives of thanking a reviewer in their space."
Well, if an author would actually thank you for a review that is hidden behind your private GR profile, I wouldn't be thrilled, but extremely wary about how they had found the review. :)
If anyone who reads this information get upset by my 'revelations' and their lack of privacy, consider this message a public service. The sooner people realize the internet is rife with eavesdroppers who collect data for malicious purposes, the better they can arm themselves against this threat.
From my perspective, it's better to face the bleak harsh truth than to live in the comforting illusion of safety and privacy.

I would never thank anybody for a review, or contact someone about a review in any way (publicly or privately), unless they initiated private contact with me. To me it seems both rude and unprofessional. If we were having a private conversation about the book and review that they'd started, it would only be polite to thank them for their comments, of course, but beyond that it seems a little creepy to me.
I wouldn't want someone going around looking for me as a person (even on t'internet) just because I'd reviewed their book. I'd expect them to maintain a professional detachment between themselves as a person and the work that they had published for public consumption. Once something is published, it's no longer your 'personal private property' - it's out there for the world to see, enjoy, not enjoy, and comment as they see fit. If they have paid for the book (or even downloaded it onto their own device for free, or whatever), then that book is theirs to comment on. They bought their copy, so it belongs to them, not to the author - they can say what they like about it (as long as they don't cross any legal/ethical borders into personally insulting the author and so on, obviously - under those circumstances I would still not contact them, but would ask the site to remove their comments, which most places would).
It seems to me a bit like going to an art gallery and saying that you like (or don't like) a particular painting, and then having the artist knocking on your door to thank you for your comments (or to find out why)! It's just weird!

*Raises hand*
I've been involved with several charity anthologies of Doctor Who short fiction, from two separate groups of fans operating as a small press. One of these was my first published story back in 2000. I gather that the BBC has got a little more prickly about people using Doctor Who even in a charity publication in recent years, but both publishers proceeded without fear of litigation, even if they didn't have watertight approval from the copyright holder (I really have no idea what agreement, if any, there was. But I do know they wouldn't have published if there was any chance of getting sued).
One of these books is listed on Goodreads, and as it's long sold out, I have no hesitation in linking to it. One can't promote something that's no longer for sale, after all... Shelf Life
So sure, I didn't make any money from being published in these anthologies, but my work was read by thousands of Doctor Who fans who didn't necessarily know that. Life finds a way, guys.

What is the purpose of reviewing a book then making the review private? Makes no sense. Anyway, all one has to do is watch the media for about 10 minutes and they will see how someone somewhere has invaded someone's perceived private space. Look at all the outrage about how much information the government has to the average person's personal info. People are just finding out but it has been going on for years. I know since the Hoover ran the FBI.

Having said that, these same authors need to, in my opinion, step it up a bit. I'm not going to read something incoherent. I'm not going to get hung up on a few typos, but I've seen some bad stuff.
Granted, I've seen some bad stuff coming out of traditional houses as well, so I guess your mileage may vary.
To recycle and reuse an old chestnut: A self pubbed author needs to work twice as hard as a traditionally published one to be considered half as good. Fortunately, that's not difficult.

No, I get why you'd parrot a phrase like 'invasion of privacy' because it's a term that is often abused, just like 'freedom of speech'. The usage of 'invasion of privacy' is restricted to privacy or perceived privacy being invaded. If you use your cell phone in your home and someone suddenly appears in the conversation and says, 'Hi, I'm listening in on your phone!', your (perceived) privacy is being invaded. If however you are using your cell phone in a public place, you don't have privacy to be invaded, only your personal space that can be intruded upon. Like someone rubbing elbows with you on the bus. You might not like that, but if you'd complain about people sitting too close to you on the bus, I know what the Transit Authority is going to tell you.

I've also used my own tim..."
While I don't have a crappy cover that needs revamping, it is a tremendous service you are providing. I thank you for it. (And I'll keep you in mind in the future!)

That's marvelous sales success, believe it or not.
LOL.
There are more people active in this conversation right now than have e..."
I second this - it's taken me over 18 months to scrape over the 150 threshold...


Aside from the big name writers and blockbuster books, I understand that this is a pretty respectable sales figure.
Don't compare yourself to Rowling. Compare yourself to the trad pubbed stuff that is similar to what you're writing. That's a bit more realistic a goal.
If you've been dead in the water for months, maybe consider doing a little advertising or a small giveaway or something to see if that boosts sales. But 200 is better than you think it is.

I saw your post as I was going to comment on the topic started. Mary, dont let a few clowns here and there interfere with your writing. F-'em. I'm sure what you write has value. Hang in there girl!
R Felini
author of Chicago Style
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

Thanks. I don't intend to. I just never cease to be amazed. At age 65, with this as the ONLY thing on my bucket list, I'm doing it... and the "clowns" can "pick little, talk a little...Cheep, cheep, cheep" (Music Man). Thanks for the boost! :-)
Children of Stone: Voices in Crystal

JT, it's still not possible to make any GR reviews 'private' unless an individual is blocked by the reviewer. Anyone on the net, even non-GR members, can see all reviews posted here. There are some 'hidden' reviews (meaning, doesn't appear on the community book page but still on GR and accessible).
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That's not brazen confidence btw. I'm sure there are issues with my novel. I hope there's not a lot, but I'm sure there are issues there.