Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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Why don't more people read Self-published authors?
I have a lot to learn about the dingy side of SPA. Didn't know half of this stuff went on.Saddens me. You only cheat yourself.
H.
TinaNicole (Le Book Nikita) wrote: "Steph wrote: "(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "I have yet to find a source that helps me with picking out self-published authors who produce decent work. Friends, yes, but one source that vets them? Nop..."Well that sucks, looks like there are no honest places anymore. Even if one is credible, they are overshadowed by the others unscrupulous behaviors so as to make anything they do appear shady.
Prime example, Kirkus Reviews, The have a service that allows you to pay to guarantee a review. Your book gets put in the queue with the non-paid ones. It does NOT guarantee a good review just a review. So people are seeing that as buying a review. Well I guess technically it is but you are not buying a GOOD review. The reviewers don't know if the book is a paid or not. At least that is the way I understand it. So people are now saying how terrible Kirkus is for providing that service though they have provided it for about 10-15 years. So how can you know?
Ultimately, the only way to know whether you like a given book, self-published or otherwise, is to read it. Granted, if you want to play the percentages, the vetting process of traditionally published books will improve your chances of picking a winner. But if you're willing to take a few minutes, you can do your own vetting that will at least help you weed out the authors who produce work that is not to your liking for whatever reason. Most "serious" authors, indies and traditionally published alike, have free content available on their blogs, Facebook pages, etc., that you can use to pretty quickly assess whether or not you're likely to enjoy the books they sell. For example, I post free short stories on my blog FletcherBest.com (hopefully you'll forgive the shameless plug). A quick look at these resources will often tell you quite a bit to help you decide whether or not it's worth your time, money, and effort to buy that particular author's books. If the author's blog is full of errors in spelling, grammar, and punctuation, it's a good bet that his or her books are too. The same thing goes for his or her themes and storytelling - if the free content is not to your tastes, you're not likely to enjoy the content that's for sale(do I have a firm grasp of the obvious or what?).
As a final thought, I would like to add a caveat about the blogs posted here on GR. In my experience with my blog entries, there are often glitches in the transfer if it's a copy of the author's blog website (so there can be a lot of formatting errors, lost spaces between words, etc.), so judge not on the copy that appears here, visit the actual blog.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Fletcher wrote: "Ultimately, the only way to know whether you like a given book, self-published or otherwise, is to read it. Granted, if you want to play the percentages, the vetting process of tr..."Yeah, there's no way that I'm going to, or should be expected to, go to every authors blog when I'm scrolling through books on Amazon. My free time is precious. I want to spend it reading actual books not searching out random authors to see if they can write.
I used to rely heavily on the look inside feature but I don't always trust that anymore either. Too many authors get that sample edited and polished but don't bother with the rest of the book. I've actually returned a few to Amz because of that.
@J.T and Harrison, it is saddening. Not only are they destroying readers trust (I used to be real quick to click that buy-now button and did so often) but they're making all the writers who do have integrity look bad as well. It sucks that the bad actions of some could overshadow the all the good but sadly, those bad ones usually yell the loudest, ya know?
I've often wondered about Kirkus reviews. They have the bonus of having been around a while, but it still comes down to paying for reviews, and not cheaply either. They do make the claim that paying for one does not promise a positive review, but as readers and even as authors, we don't have any way to honestly verify that. After all, once a review is done, it's up to the author if they want it posted and shared, so it is very rare that a bad review by them would come to light.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "J.T. wrote: "TinaNicole (Le Book Nikita) wrote: "Steph wrote: "(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "I have yet to find a source that helps me with picking out self-published authors who produce decent work...."Well I did get a decent review from them. I am glad they still have a good rep out there.
As a SPA, I am abhorred at all the crap that get put out there. It hurts the industry. Most people don't realized many books are self pubbed unless they really look. Which hurts the entire industry. I wish there was some way to do a general vetting of the self publishing industry but as long as all the companies out there keep letting anything with a credit card publish any piece of crap that is all we are going to get.
Sorry that you have had mostly bad experiences Grimlock (love the transformer reference btw)Hope that you will give SPAs the occasional look.
J.T. Buckley
Fletcher wrote: "Ultimately, the only way to know whether you like a given book, self-published or otherwise, is to read it. Granted, if you want to play the percentages, the vetting process of traditionally publi..."Fletcher, you are now dubbed Captain Obvious.
The idea of how to promote good self-published books is one I've been pondering for quite a while now. In my 'real life' I run several websites including a large one focused on training people to write - that's BellaOnline. One of our projects at BellaOnline for the past six years or so is a literary magazine, Mused. It's all charity based and it lets us promote poets, short stories, memoirs, etc. I love running Mused and love how we help people achieve that first step of "getting out there". We offer free feedback, and it's all free, so it makes me very happy to do it.
So, having done that for many years now, I keep hearing from people that they want me to do the same thing for longer (novel) length works. I admit I kept putting them off because I am already deluged with work. But as you guys have been saying, there aren't many trustworthy sources out there to know how to get through all the dreck and find the books worth reading. Or even at least the "better books".
So I'm taking a deep breath and pondering having a self-published book award set. It would have a low reading fee and free feedback. That way I could strive to help those who are having troubles understand where they should probably focus, and I could help those who have mastered those skills get recognition for it.
I know it'll be an immense amount of work. I cringe even typing this. However, I keep reading over and over again in the forums that it seems to be an area that can use some help. It's an area I feel strongly about. So maybe I should put my energy where my passions are.
Lisa
J.T. wrote: "Fletcher wrote: "Ultimately, the only way to know whether you like a given book, self-published or otherwise, is to read it. Granted, if you want to play the percentages, the vetting process of tr..."Can I be Commodore Comma?
Lisa wrote: "The idea of how to promote good self-published books is one I've been pondering for quite a while now. In my 'real life' I run several websites including a large one focused on training people to w..."I think authors have kinda saturated the markets for marketing. Most authors have social media set ups, blogs (usually about themselves or writing), blog tours etc.
Maybe I'm wrong but maybe authors could try something a little different than the run of the mill? Kinda shake things up a bit?
Denzel -I imagine with the millions of authors out there that every bizarre trick has probably been tried. The "problem" with blogs and such is that the potential readers then have to actively go out and read the blog. You're expecting readers to seek out the information, which they rarely do. Readers tend to be busy. You have to reach them where they already are looking.
That's why precisely targeted Twitter posts with hashtags work well. It's why sponsored Facebook posts with perfect interest targeting work well. You're not expecting the potential reader to come out and find you. You're injecting your message into the stream they're already viewing.
Here's an example. My series of novellas is on erotic romance. For some of my posts on my Facebook/Twitter/Google+/blog/etc. pages I talk about TV shows and movies with characters that my target audience would be interested in. Bones is one of those shows.
I start up my Bones thread with all sorts of questions about "what's the name of" and "what happened when" and so on. I then promote that thread to everyone on Facebook who's female, 18-65, and who loves Bones.
Now when all those people are hanging out on Facebook, reading their normal timeline, occasionally they see a cool photo of Seely Booth with a fun, lively conversation talking about the show. They click! They have fun. And along the way they learn about my novels. A portion of the readers then buy the books.
That's the type of thing that works well for me. Don't expect readers to seek you out. Get your message into the world the readers inhabit, in a way that meshes smoothly with their existing interests.
You can see the whole thread here, to see how it worked. It's extremely cheap, too. I think it was $15 for the whole promotion which got me a flurry of new fans and sales.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...
Ophelia
Richard -I think that's part of where we have a benefit. BellaOnline has been around since 1999 and our reputation is built on our honest content. Readers adore Mused, our literary magazine, and know that we feature things we truly believe in.
So we've built up that trust and reputation over fourteen years of hard work.
Lisa
Ophelia wrote: "Denzel -I imagine with the millions of authors out there that every bizarre trick has probably been tried. The "problem" with blogs and such is that the potential readers then have to actively go..."
Where did you find this service? And so cheap at that?
Denzel -I apologize if I'm misunderstanding your question. I think you're asking how I boosted my post in Facebook.
I made the post in Facebook. When the post was live I hovered my mouse over the "Boost" button and chose the options. It took maybe thirty seconds.
Ophelia
Ophelia wrote: "Denzel -I apologize if I'm misunderstanding your question. I think you're asking how I boosted my post in Facebook.
I made the post in Facebook. When the post was live I hovered my mouse over th..."
You're not misunderstanding, I like hearing about ways to market, even if I don't usually try them myself.
Henry -I'm curious why awards that charge become disreputable. Someone is paying those readers for all the time they're putting into it. They're surviving to pay the hosting bills somehow.
When I enter for awards I think it's fair to pay for the time they take to fully evaluate my work.
Lisa
I should add that with Mused we get hundreds of entries to every issue and we do it all completely for free. We read, we provide feedback, we publish, etc. all with no ads and no income. We "lose money" on publishing that magazine each quarter. We absorb that as a charity project.To do that for hundreds of small items is one thing. To do that for thousands of self-published full length novels would crush us.
Even large organizations that offer awards balance their books somehow. Often they have a membership fee of $100 or more to belong to their organization. Often they push sponsors and share their databases. Often they are run by publishing houses and only allow submissions from one of those publishing houses. Somehow they are paying all the fees involved with reading, publishing, hosting, and maintaining the operation.
I suppose I find the most ethical system to be one where the submitter pays a small fee which reflects the load they personally put on the system. They "get what they pay for". There's no other bias or burden involved. Everyone has a level playing field.
Lisa
Ophelia wrote: "Don't expect readers to seek you out. Get your message into the world the readers inhabit, in a way that meshes smoothly with their existing interests."I think you're absolutely right. When I get feedback from readers, I ask them 'how did you find me?', and often the answer is:
- because of your answer on a parenting/martial arts/writing/self-defence/assassin/relationship question on Quora.com
- because of your comment on a Cracked.com article.
- because of your helpful photo gallery on changing handlebars with heated grips on ADVrider.com
- because of an aikido/koryu bujutsu thread on E-Budo.com.
In all these instances, people like my comment/article and click on my avatar/signature and find their way to my blog/website, where they find out that I write suspense fiction.
I think that works much better than spamming your new book. If people already enjoyed something you've written, they're predisposed to liking your blog articles and your fiction.
Grimlock -I absolutely agree that building a solid reputation is key. For example, if someone only has four and five star reviews on their site it seems suspicious. The more rounded you can present yourself, over a long period of time, with a continuous stream of high quality content, the more you demonstrate the essence of what you provide.
Martyn -
One of the sites I run is a low carb site. Over the years I've reviewed numerous low carb books. People find me because they're researching those books, like my reviews, and then seek out my site. So I agree that the more you can be where they are already, the better. The more you can demonstrate your writing ability in each thing you post, the more that you draw in that target audience.
It's a balance. If I spent all my time reviewing motorcycle gear, but my website was on wine, it probably wouldn't do me a lot of direct good. However, if I spend all my time reviewing wine books, and wine lovers read those and find me, and then find my wine website, that works extremely well.
It works even better when I then have books on sangria recipes and Champagne cocktails for them to buy from me :).
Lisa
Grimlock -Thank you for sharing that article - it was lovely. It's encouraging to think that a well written book, diligently promoted by the author, can rise out of the muck and have its chance to shine.
In terms of the award, it was this quote I was referring to:
"Then you have the option of looking at reputable awards (the ones that do not charge). Finding one, however, is not easy."
I agree that a system where everyone is promoted isn't much of a healthy system. It would be like those "submit your poem and you're guaranteed to be in our book of poetry" schemes. Just $49.95 for the book :).
With Mused, we get in hundreds of poems and can only choose a few for each issue. Fortunately our artists are great and love to hear feedback, which means often we then get the poem back in a more polished state the next time around and can run it. That makes us happy and the poet is ecstatic. That's what keeps me going. I adore that. I love helping someone get to that next level.
So I'm sort of hoping we can do the same thing for longer-format writers. I shared this link with Denzel already, but I might as well share it with the group. These are my tips on writing and publishing -
http://www.lisashea.com/lisabase/writ...
I share them all online for free. It's what makes me happy. I figure life is short - we should strive to do things that make us happy. I love to write, and I love to help other writers. I love to keep learning in order to write better. I can then hopefully help others to write better.
We'll see what the next year holds. The world is always changing around us, and that's immensely true in our current self-publishing / marketing world. It's just amazing how much it transforms every year.
Lisa
It's a pity the rating system is so broken, here and in Amazon for example, so it is no help for anyone. A lot of writers think 5 star reviews = sales, so they manufacture them. Didn't someone mention above that "all 5* reviews is suspicious"? Yes, it is. On top of that some people dislike giving bad ratings and only rate books they liked. So ratings help now neither the author or the hapless reader trying to find something to read: I like to read non-fiction, which tends to garner a few bad ratings from people who dislike the subject or the theories - anything with religion or evolution will garner a few one stars as well as 5s just for opinionated reasons - and at least sometimes "difficult" literary books that some people rate boring and incomprehensible. All in all the result is that I cannot make out if a book that had 3.93 average is better or worse than 4.06. The variation is too small and the underlying data partly false.
I think the more passionate readers of self-published fiction -- who don't also write it -- are voracious readers who mostly read within a particular genre or genres. For them a constant supply of new inexpensive fiction is necessary to feed their fiction habit. Most other readers aren't likely to come across to even come across many self-published titles. People who participate in sites like this one or the Amazon forums may “meet” self-published authors in their travels, and might decide to try one of their works, but those are rare birds. If you think of how a decision is made to read a book, you'll see the chances of that book's being self-published is slim. This is one reason why self-published writers are often so anxious about customer reviews and trying to develop some kind of following. If a reader does come across a self-published book he or she likes, the kindest thing he or she could do would be to write a review, AND tell friends – maybe even give a copy as a gift.
Martyn wrote: "...people like my comment/article and click on my avatar/signature and find their way to my blog/website, where they find out that I write suspense fiction. ... I think that works much better than spamming your new book. If people already enjoyed something you've written, they're predisposed to liking your blog articles and your fiction."Henry wrote: "In the end, it is all about integrity and building a solid reputation... However, you can form an opinion about me by reading the reviews I wrote, by looking at how I rated the books I read, and, if so inclined, by reading a free sample of any of my titles."
I can think of at least three authors I'm currently reading solely based on Goodreads interactions. I liked what I saw on particular threads, looked for their blogs, followed those for a few weeks, and started reading their books. In an almost-textbook case scenario, I then started checking into those who left comments on those blogs and am now expanding the list of SPAs I'm possibly going to read in the near future.
There is one author here on GR who stands out in my mind because she only ever posts to promote her book(s). I'm sure she's a lovely person, and from what she's posted, her art/poetry must be pretty well-received, but I have never seen her interact with anyone here. I find that to be off-putting and will most likely never read her books. I may lose out on reading a great author, but she has given me absolutely no reason to want to "know" her further, based on her lack of real participation here. That may be unfair of me, but it's one of my personal criteria for aiding the process of elimination.
J.T. wrote: "Fletcher, you are now dubbed Captain Obvious."Thanks, J.T.! Do I get a uniform befitting my title?
Denzel wrote: "Can I be Commodore Comma?"I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captain, so I'm not sure how that would work.
Lisa wrote: "It's a balance. If I spent all my time reviewing motorcycle gear, but my website was on wine, it probably wouldn't do me a lot of direct good. However, if I spend all my time reviewing wine books, and wine lovers read those and find me, and then find my wine website, that works extremely well."Luckily, I'm not that restricted, as I write suspense fiction which appeals to a wide range of readers. As I put in the description of my novels: "gives a rare glimpse in the local Dutch culture, information on the famous Dutch capital, the narcotics trade, motorcycle gangs, mehndi bridal tattoos, martial arts, computer hacking, the art of social engineering, and the brutal effectiveness of disciplined violence."
So, on top of 'anyone who likes suspense fiction', my books might appeal to motorcyclists, law enforcement, drug dealers, martial artists, hackers, liars, thieves, con men, killers, street fighters, lovers of Dutch culture, Amsterdam tourists, people who like [henna] tattoos, social engineers...
What also counts, I think, is that I've been posting on E-Budo and ADVrider long before I started publishing my novels. People knew I was a writer for years, but my books were not for sale, because I was working on my craft and I didn't want to publish any half-baked crap.
On E-Budo I'm known for my experience in aikido and koryu bujutsu, and on ADVrider, I'm a European motorcyclist who provides another view on motorcycling (majority of the members is American) and I post 'ride reports' of motorcycle rides through the European mountains (Pyrenees, Dolomites, Alps, Vercors, Jura).
ADVriders come out to Amsterdam and I show them around, so I'm not just a nickname but a real person. To them, writing is just another thing that I do.
Also, I don't promote myself endlessly--I have a link to my blog in my signature and (only on ADVrider) 1 thread where I tell people about my 'adventures in self-publishing'. Most of my beta-readers came from ADVrider and they're an eclectic bunch, because adventure motorcycling attracts people from all stations in life.
On Quora, I give answers on anything I have an opinion about, not just on writing. So people read a parenting advice they like, check out who I am and find out I'm an author.
I know from one of my 'fans' that her husband read a funny but insightful comment on a Cracked article and tipped me to his wife because she read suspense fiction. She became a fan and told me that she'd visit Amsterdam, so we had coffee at an Amsterdam cafe where she could grill me on my books. Lovely people, and the first time I gave anyone my autograph... :)
Marion wrote: "People who participate in sites like this one or the Amazon forums may “meet” self-published authors in their travels, and might decide to try one of their works, but those are rare birds."Well said. Like most SPAs my initial readers were, obviously, friends and family. Mostly friends, as only one family member had a Kindle when my first book came out. None of them had ever, to my knowledge, read a self-published book before.
However, having read mine without anything untoward happening to them, the experience did lead to them trying a few more self-published books that 'didn't look too bad', and a few have become dedicated Indie readers (as a very swift glance at my "other customers bought" lists will show).
I'm sure my experience is far from unique, and although we all know there have been some appalling crimes against the written word committed on KDP and Smashwords (among other platforms), I'd like to think that every new SPA does bring a certain number of new readers with them to the indie market. And that's why I never feel I'm competing with fellow authors for a limited number of eyeballs.
TinaNicole (Le Book Nikita) wrote: "Yeah, there's no way that I'm going to, or should be expected to, go to every authors blog when I'm scrolling through books on Amazon. My free time is precious. I want to spend it reading actual books not searching out random authors to see if they can write. ..."I get the need to save time, but there's going to be authors you like and those you don't, whether they are self-published or otherwise. I'm merely suggesting that if you find a book that seems interesting that you take a couple of extra minutes to check out the author. If the author doesn't strike your fancy, you move on to another book and make note that you're not into that author. The investment of a few extra minutes in the short term can then save you time in the long term.
But then again, who has the time to save themselves time these days?
BRAG seems pretty cool. They also don't seem to be accepting submissions currently. Bummer.I checked out Dactyl Review. It's an interesting site. I'm sure they give excellent reviews. I, however, don't really like the exchanging reviews model. I don't know why. I just don't tend to like sites that use that model. I don't like the perceived sense of obligation...I guess. If I'm looking to get somebody to review my book then I'm looking for somebody to review my book. I don't typically actively look to review other books. If I read a book that I feel I can adequately review then I will leave a review. I know, I have been woefully inadequate in leaving reviews on Goodreads.
I like the discussion though. Sites like BRAG and Dactyl are pretty cool. I've thought about possibly entering one of my works in a contest. The general consensus I've received from already well established authors is that they're not really good for much other than a pat on the back though. They say that you think they would be good for garnering exposure, but they don't really gain you as much exposure as you would think. I guess it's really hard to say for sure. It would be interesting to talk to someone who had won a contest like that in order to find out how much it actually helped them.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "I hope this goes a way to proving I'm not a troll, then :D I really wasn't trying to be, I'm just jaded due to past experiences. I *do* talk to some SPAs, and like I said, I'm at least willing to listen to arguments. Whether they'll sway me is another matter..."The thing is, real self-published authors are just as disgusted with the speshul snowflakes as the readers are. Probably even more so, because the snowflake attitude reflects badly on all self-published authors.
The fact that your bad experiences haven't caused you to turn your back on all SPAs is enough proof in my eyes that you're not a troll, but even if you had closed the door, I still wouldn't blame you or call you a troll.
Loved the article, by the way.
Richard wrote: "LOL. True. I tend to rate high, perhaps. But I only read books they're enjoying. If it doesn't grab me, I read something else, and I don't generally review fiction I dislike because... I don't bother to read it."I've recently begun writing reviews of books that showed promise but failed to deliver. Because of info-dumps, two-dimensional or downright badly written characters, factual inaccuracies that could've been avoided with five minutes of research. Of course, I read books both as a reader and a writer, so it's like going to the movies with a film student who wonders out loud why the director used such crappy camera angle. But like some film buffs like to dissect a movie failure, I like to dissect book failures on why (I think) they fail.
This is where I get the idea that it's about exchanging reviews."Dactyl Review is a community of reviewers, literary fiction writers, like you. We do not have reviewers on staff. All the reviewing is done by the community. If you would like to become involved, review a literary fiction novel and post it here. Then you can offer your novel to others for review here. If you like, you can offer to do a review exchange with one of our other reviewers whose books are offered here. If a literary fiction writer has already reviewed your book, you can ask that writer to submit the review here. Read more about our mission here."
Richard wrote: "Martyn wrote: "like some film buffs like to dissect a movie failure, I like to dissect book failures "Ah, when I think something needs work but has potential, I most often write directly to the author and don't review it in public."
Actually, this is interesting, since I do that too. I read a thriller set in Amsterdam, which was rife with errors about Amsterdam and Dutch culture, so I wrote the author, who was grateful for my extensive feedback. The book was re-published with my corrections.
However, that book showed potential and was definitely well-written, just had sloppy research. And the author appreciated my feedback.
I wrote the author of Severance Kill about the formatting errors and the many other mistakes unrelated to the formatting. I got an excuse from him about the formatting errors, but he didn't respond to my offer of feedback about the many mistakes, so I wrote them up in the review. Not to spite him, but to show every person who imagines that you can write a thriller without adequate research will end in ridicule.
Funny thing, the author PM'd me after he read the review and owned up to the mistakes. However, his claim to write for entertainment purposes did not excuse him from the sloppy research. Sure, I enjoy a Michael Bay movie once in a while, but that's when I expect popcorn, not steak. If your book tries to emulate steak and you give me popcorn, I will give you one chance to bring me steak, or I'll pop your corn.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Then the author goes ape-shit like the world had just exploded."Well, like I stated above, the author wrote me a gracious PM and agreed with my review, thanking me for my time and effort. And he's not unique in that, because the author of the other book that I panned (because a humongous info dump 10% into the e-book) commented on GR about his reasons for the info dump. We didn't agree on that, but there was no slinging of primate excrement...
Maybe it's inherent in the genre and suspense fiction authors are less likely to fly off the handle (although trade-published author Stephen Leather has a tendency to quarrel with negative reviewers), or maybe they checked out my bio and decided it was a bad idea to go BBA on me...
I suspect that they are both just decent human beings.
Fletcher wrote: "Denzel wrote: "Can I be Commodore Comma?"I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captain, so I'm not sure how that would work."
I understand the Grammar Nazis have an Obergruppenführer position open?
That really is a shame. It's a struggle to get reviews as a SPA. It's frustrating to hear tales of reviews with constructive criticism in them being wasted on people who don't acknowledge them for what they're worth.
Fletcher wrote: "Denzel wrote: "Can I be Commodore Comma?"I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captain, so I'm not sure how that would work."
What about Commander Caps-lock? I THINK I FIT THE POSITION JUST FINE, DON'T YOU?
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Tura wrote: "Fletcher wrote: "Denzel wrote: "Can I be Commodore Comma?"I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captain, so I'm not sure how that would work."
I..."
I think I know a video that can clear it up.
http://youtu.be/J7E-aoXLZGY
If you don't feel like watching I can summarize, they just get high and mighty over people with less than perfect grammar. Granted the linking to the Nazis is a bit extreme.
D.L. wrote: "Martyn, it is fortunate the first SPA responded the way s/he did by taking your advice and making the changes."The thing is, that first SPA started self-publishing after being a trade published author for a long while. So this was someone who could definitely write, but his information about Amsterdam was outdated and tainted by memory. And he was also gracious enough to not only thank me, but acknowledge my contribution in his book and on his website.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "You're lucky! Some authors are not nearly so gracious. "Which seems a little silly, as long as the review's criticism is constructive and not personal or abusive, obviously (in which case I just wouldn't respond at all).
I certainly don't expect everyone who reads what I write to like it, and I expect to have reviews that vary according to how much they do - that's what reviews are all about. If people read my work and don't like it, fair enough. If they want to tell me that privately rather than in public, fair enough - I'll listen, but ultimately there's not much I can do if it's just a matter of not liking the way I write, or the way I've dealt with the subject, or whatever. I'll still thank them for their comments, and I will consider them for future reference (even if I decide that I don't agree with them - not every negative comment is always going to be 'fact', as opposed to 'opinion').
If they point out actual errors and mistakes in the text, though (as opposed to things that I've included deliberately that they don't happen to like), I'll certainly thank them for letting me know and, if they are at all 'serious', try to put them right ASAP (which isn't exactly difficult with a kindle book!). I know there were a few errors in the first version of my first (and so far only) book (entirely my own fault for making a couple of small changes after the proofreading - lesson learned!), and I'm grateful to someone who did point those out to me so that I could get them sorted.
Of course, I might decide that something mentioned isn't an issue worth dealing with (or something I see as being 'wrong'), but I don't see the need to be rude to people, especially if they have taken the time to let you know about things they think are problems. Aside from the fact that I don't see the need for rudeness generally, all it does in that situation is alienate potential future readers (them and their friends). At the very most, I'd politely point out that I'm happy with what they have pointed out, but thank them for their comments anyway.
Being a reasonable human being generally doesn't cost very much at all, and I find it a much better way to be with other people generally.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Until then, I'm not wasting my time, and who are you to question how Tina uses hers? If she's come to the same conclusions as I have based on time spent browsing books and checking samples, then she's smart to bypass SP books until she can find a system that helps her find books she likes more quickly..."I don't think I questioned how Tina uses her time, I merely suggested a possible method she could use to save time on her book searches since she stated that time was an issue for her. Nonetheless, if Tina was offended by me making an honest suggestion, my sincere apologies to her. Apparently I didn't make it clear enough, but my suggestion was referring to finding good authors/books in general, not just SPAs. In other words, I was attempting to help her "find a system that helps her find books she likes more quickly."
Now, if I were to question how someone spends his or her time, I might make a snarky comment about how a certain individual who claims to be concerned about wasting time has spent an awful lot of time arguing his position on this thread - largely repeating himself over and over and over again. But I would never do that, because it would be totally immature - and a waste of time.
Joe wrote: "That really is a shame. It's a struggle to get reviews as a SPA. It's frustrating to hear tales of reviews with constructive criticism in them being wasted on people who don't acknowledge them for ..."Ehm, Joe, the feedback I gave to the first SPA was not wasted. And my reviews of the other three SPAs were definitely not 'wasted'. Not only have a few readers mailed/commented that the reviews were hilarious, they also serve as a cautionary tale: 'Don't publish crap or you'll get your mistakes fed back to you publicly'.
A public review is not feedback for the author, but advice for readers: 'Before you spend your time and money, know what you'll be spending it on'.
And, of course, there will always be readers who are not as discerning as I am and will gladly swallow crap, but my reviews are not for them either.
Fletcher wrote: "(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Until then, I'm not wasting my time, and who are you to question how Tina uses hers? If she's come to the same conclusions as I have based on time spent browsing books a..."Can you do it again? I missed it.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "God... this gets under my skin. Wanting to read something where the writer understands the basic of grammar=/=equal to any of the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis."While I differ with you on certain things, I completely agree with you on this point, Grimlock.
Sorry, I guess my post came out differently than I meant it to. I was mainly posting in regards to the backlash that D.L. mentioned about getting from his reviews. I understand that the review is not for the author. Honestly, my comment was more directed at what D.L. was saying, but since he was responding to something you posted, I can see that it would also be associated with what you posted.What I was trying to say is that I think backlash to a review is silly. If someone takes the time to write a review pointing out the issues with your book then they should be thanked, not blasted. I guess I'm also looking at this the wrong way. A review like that would be beneficial to other people who are trying to decide whether or not they should read that book, even though the author may not have appreciated the review.
Sorry if my original wording seemed harsh or insinuated that any of your reviews had been wasted. It's not what I mean. It at least isn't what I had intended when I was thinking up the post in my head. With how valuable reviews are, it's just frustrating to hear that authors lash back about reviews because they don't like them. Again, that goes back to the fact that the review isn't for the author though and I guess that's me looking at it through author tinted glasses.
(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Denzel wrote: "(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Tura wrote: "Fletcher wrote: "Denzel wrote: "Can I be Commodore Comma?"I would bestow the rank myself, Denzel, but I think a Commodore outranks a Captai..."
No problem. Stuff like that is pretty common on my side of the internet.
Fletcher wrote: "(All Hail) Grimlock wrote: "Until then, I'm not wasting my time, and who are you to question how Tina uses hers? If she's come to the same conclusions as I have based on time spent browsing books a..."Fletcher, your post didn't offend me. Frankly, the only response that came to mind was 'Duh' and I figured it didn't really need saying.
But since it's come up...Duh.
Eta: Grim's message 654. That's exactly it. I'm not looking to do more work when it comes to looking for new books and authors. That would seem obvious enough, no?
Joe wrote: "Sorry if my original wording seemed harsh or insinuated that any of your reviews had been wasted. It's not what I mean. It at least isn't what I had intended when I was thinking up the post in my head. "Actually, it sounded like you wished I had lavished my attention on dissecting your book... *evil laughter*
Joe wrote: "Again, that goes back to the fact that the review isn't for the author though and I guess that's me looking at it through author tinted glasses."
I'm an author too, Joe, but I was a reader first. Although I'm always quick to point out that I might get irritated at mistakes other readers might not notice.
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Um, no. If I'm not mistaken, there's a lot of review swapping and/or buying awards or seals going on at awesome indies.
Another reason that a lot of readers don't trust blogs that deal with indies anymore.