Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion
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Martin, George R.R. - A Game of Thrones (buddy read/1st in group series read) Start date June 9th 2011
Lisa Kay's Response to post 348, Sandy's Answers to Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 16 (Eddard) - Chapter 19 (Jon)#3 - The only Lannister I recall going to the Wall is Tyrion, and (if I recall correctly) it's because he wanted to **ahem** urinate off of it.
LMAO and clapping! Too funny!
#7 - Yes and no. I think there is honor in defending the realm by serving at the Wall, on the other hand I think the sacrifices are too great.
I agree. Haven't these people heard of doing a "stint" and then opting out or reenlisting.
#10 - I think he's (Tyrion's) a "nice" guy.
Ditto!
Lisa Kay’s Questions for June 15 - Chapter 24 (Bran) - Chapter 27 (Eddard)1) Were you caught up in Old Nan’s story about the last hero? Do you think there are still children of the haunted forest in the far North? How do you think Old Nan’s version of story ends; happy like Bran believes?
I get the feeling there are no happy endings in this world.
2) Why do you think Tyrion designed the saddle for Bran? Does his doing so assure you that he had nothing to do with the attempted assignation on Bran?
I think there could be many reasons. For one thing, he has built up a rapport with Jon and is now extending it to his half-brother, Bran. It's a way for him to do something nice for Jon. It's also a way for him to get on the Starks' good side. At this point, I don't believe that Tyrion knows he is a suspect in the assassination attempt.
3) Why did the direwolves respond to Tyrion with such hostility? Summer was the first to start growling; what is the significance of that? Did this change your mind about Tyrion’s ulterior motives?
This is a long-shot...do the direwolves recognize kinships? Wasn't Summer present when Bran was pushed off the wall? Or, it could be that Summer senses Tyrion is a threat to Bran, who is "his" human. I don't know why he would think Tyrion is a threat, though, since Tyrion is doing something nice for Bran. Perhaps he was feeding off of the family's response to Tyrion, which was quite negative.
4) Any doubt as to which Robert was Jon Arryn was asking for on his death bed? Do you think he was poisoned, and if so, by whom? If it was by Queen Cersei, why did she leave the castle instead of assuring the deed was done and/or no information passed from Lord Arryn to the King Robert?
It seems that he was poisoned. Cersei may have left to avoid detection, or maybe she had nothing to do with it.
5) What did you make of Sansa & Arya’s dreams of Bran?
OK...I need to go back and re-read!
6) What was your first impression of Samwell Tarly; did it change any after hearing his life story? Did you agree with Jon’s thought that “it took a queer sort of courage to admit to cowardice”? What was the meaning of Jon’s dream of Winterfall?
Sam is definitely a fish out of water. It's so sad the way his father treated him. You can't help but feel sorry for the guy.
7) Were you surprised Jon had Ghost partaken in straightening Rast out by leaping onto his chest? “Remember, we know where you sleep.” Impressed he used that variation on Donal Noye's words of advice? How close a bond has been formed between all these youths of the Night’s Guard?
Using Ghost was a brilliant idea. The direwolf can rip a human to pieces. I think their bond has become close, and I get the feeling this will be useful later.
8) What will be the consequences of Lord Stark giving up some of his own household guard to serve the Watch?
He leaves himself and his family with a smaller protective force.
9) Who holds a vital piece of the puzzle for Lord Stark: Ser Hugh (formally Lord Arryn’s squire) or Lord Stannis (the king’s brother)? Who is more likely to part with this information?
Hmmmm...I believe that Stannis knows a lot, and that's one reason he's staying far away from King's Landing. Ser Hugh also has knowledge, and it may be easier to get it out of him since he's more within reach.
10) What is the significance of the lineage book Lord Arryn was reading?
Physical descriptions of the children of kings. Will make Ned realize that *something* is not right...
11) I can’t write better questions than what we ended with: “What had Jon Arryn wanted with a king’s bastard, and why was it worth his life?” Well, except to ask, which king’s bastard? (I mean which king, Robert?)
Jon Arryn had realized that Robert's bastards look nothing like Cersei's children.
Questions for Chapter 56 (Tyrion) - Chapter 59 (Catelyn)1. We now know that the mantra of the Lannisters is "Hear Me Roar." What is your opinion of it? I think it is not all that inventive or great.
2. Tyrion is finally back home. What did you think of the interaction between him and his father? I'm not feeling the love.
3. Anyone wondering how Tyrion's newly formed motley crew will effect the games (game of thrones that is), or do you think Tyrion's father will kill them? Could insisting that Tyrion was theirs until they were compensated lead to their downfall?
4. Bronn saved Tyrion's butt, but it sounded like Tyrion didn't have a high regard for him. He brought up the fact he'd changed sides. Anyone surprised by this?
5. Sansa. What can I say? Anyone else like to smack some sense into her? Anyone else surprised she is still considered engaged to the young King? Do you think he likes her? I was a little confused by it until I read Eddard's chapter.
6. I must confess, I was a little afraid to read chapter 58. I didn't see any other Eddard chapters. I feared our relationship with him had come to an end. Anyone else relieved it wasn't? Do you think he'll cave in because of Sansa?
7. So as I and I believe a few others of you suspected, Catelyn didn't fully believe herself a Stark. I'd think that after 5 children and several more years of being married to her husband she'd have felt she was a Stark. Anyone else think she really had a problem with her husband's infidelity? Could that be the reason?
8. What did you think of the agreement Catelyn reached with Lord Frey? That was an awful lot to ask for passage.
Kellyflower wrote: "I watched the TV series and now I keep watching this thread...I'm wondering if I can pick up at the second book or should I skim the first one...the hold on the first book at my library is 207 people!"I haven't been watching the TV series, but I've heard it is very close to the book. I think there was a scene added between Queen Cersei and Catelyn Stark in Bran's sick room (after the fall) that doesn't exist in the book.
I also don't know how much say George R.R. Martin has had in the making of the series. He knows the characters, and what he has in store for them, best.
I would think you could, Kellyflower, but it is best to ask someone who has been reading and watching both.
Lisa Kay's Responses to post 350, Sandy's Answers to Vi's Questions for Chapter 20 (Eddard) to Chapter 23 (Daenrys)#2 - He still misses Ned's sister...
I think, due to the time and distance of her death -- plus the fact that he never "had" her -- has caused him to make her into his ideal, unattainable woman.
#7 - The sisters (Sansa & Arya) will reconcile but it will be a long, hard road to that reconciliation.
As I am farther along in the book that you, but you've seen the series... I am going to agree with you here. **sigh**
#8 - a great testament to Ned's character to allow his daughter to follow her spirit.
I ♥ Ned, flaws and missteps and all.
#10 - Can't comment on this as I've seen the show!
Tease! LOL! Hummmm... I sticking with me theory that the eggs are viable.
An after thought about Chapters 56 (Tyrion) - 59 (Catelyn). I forgot to mention the fact we learned a little bit more about Rheagar's and Lyanna's relationship (if there was one). How he gave her a flower wreath at a tournament. Strange thing to do when you're already married.
Lisa Kay's Responses to post #353, Sandy's Answers to Lisa Kay’s Questions for June 15 - Chapter 24 (Bran) - Chapter 27 (Eddard)#3 - This is a long-shot...do the direwolves recognize kinships?
I don't think it is such a long-shot!
#4 - It seems that he (Jon Arryn) was poisoned. Cersei may have left to avoid detection, or maybe she had nothing to do with it.
Wow! This is soooooo weird to see a question I wrote back when I though Queen Cersie was guilty as sin. Now, I think the Nut Bunny did it!
#7 - I think their (the youths of the Night’s Guard) bond has become close, and I get the feeling this will be useful later.
Ditto!
#10 - Physical descriptions of the children of kings.
Ahhhh... Hadn't thought of that.
#11 - Jon Arryn had realized that Robert's bastards look nothing like Cersei's children.
I still think, on this point, Martin should have taken a biology class. My ex is the only brunette in a family of five boys. He looks nothing like his father, but is the spitting image of his uncle (his mother's brother) - more so than his uncle's own kids. He stands the same way, holds his hands the same way, etc. He was always called "the milkman's son". Disgusting. I also had a female cousin of five siblings where the same thing happened (she was the spitting image of my mom in looks and temperament, much to my aunt's displeasure).
Sorry. **sigh** Rant over. :)
Lisarenee wrote: "An after thought about Chapters 56 (Tyrion) - 59 (Catelyn). I forgot to mention the fact we learned a little bit more about Rheagar's and Lyanna's relationship (if there was one). How he gave her a..."Especially since she didn't like Robert's infidelity.
Lisa Kay wrote: "Lisa Kay's Responses to post #353, Sandy's Answers to Lisa Kay’s Questions for June 15 - Chapter 24 (Bran) - Chapter 27 (Eddard)#3 - This is a long-shot...do the direwolves recognize kinships?
I ..."
LOL, Lisa Kay! Those darn recessive genes! :-)
Kellyflower wrote: "I watched the TV series and now I keep watching this thread...I'm wondering if I can pick up at the second book or should I skim the first one...the hold on the first book at my library is 207 people!"I'm on page 500, the TV show follows the book VERY closely. However, I have read on other boards that there are scenes in the show that don't actually occur until later books. I'm not sure how much, if anything, you would lose by not reading Book 1. That is a LONG waitlist for GoT!
Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 28 (Catelyn) - Chapter 31 (Tyrion)1. What did you think of Catelyn this time around? Do you think she did the right thing or should she have talked to Tyrion before having him taken into custody?
Catelyn has rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning for the way she treated Jon Snow. Catelyn is a wise woman, so I am unsure why she is taking circumstantial evidence and building a case against Tyrion. Did she ever ask herself WHY the dwarf would want to kill her son?? I don't think this was the right thing to do. She is unfairly arresting Tyrion, and at the same time she is pissing off his wacko family.
2. Do you believe Tyrion about never betting against his family? Did your opinion of him change? Do you believe him?
Yes I believe him. His family is wealthy and powerful, key ingredients to getting what you want.
3. Did what Tyrion say make you think less of Littlefinger?
I've always thought Littlefinger was a little weasel, so no.
4. Sansa looks like Catelyn did when she was younger. She was receiving a lot of attention. Do you think Littlefinger would ever do anything to her? His attention seemed a little creepy to me. Anyone else think so too?
It was creepy given that Sansa is what, 11 in the book?? (all of the kids are 3 or 4 years older in the TV series). I wouldn't put it past Littlefinger to harm her.
5. Did you think Prince Joeffrey would escort Sansa to her room? Do you think her opinion of him changed any because he didn't?
I did think he would, then I wasn't at all surprised that he didn't. At this point, isn't Sansa just a teensy bit angry at him for what happened with Arya, which led to the death of Lady? Or is she still focused on the idea that she will one day be Queen so she's letting bygones be bygones?
6. Why do you think the Queen was so upset? Is it because she likes to be the center of attention? Started picturing Snow White's step mother. I got a "Mirror, Mirror on the wall...." vibe.
Need to revisit this...
7. Did you get a little nervous about Sansa being along with the Hound?
YES, definitely! I was worried he would hurt her.
8. What did you think of The Hound's story about Ser Gregor?
Sad and tragic.
9. Did you suspect the young knight that died would be the one Eddard wished to speak to?
Nope
10. If Littlefinger is lying do you think Eddard's in more trouble than you previously thought?
Eddard is too honorable for his own good...
11. Varys' information was interesting. What do you think Ned will do with the information? Sounds like someone may be trying to kill the King. Anyone else wonder why after the King spilled his wine they were so insistent he have more? Could someone be trying to poison him or am I just getting a little wild with my thoughts?
I think they like plying him with alcohol because it makes him more agreeable.
12. Do you think Catelyn is more likely to listen to Tyrion since he saved her?
Not really. She would view his chivalry as trying to suck up to her. She wants someone to blame and punish for Bran's accident.
My Answers to Questions for Chapter 56 (Tyrion) - Chapter 59 (Catelyn) 1. We now know that the mantra of the Lannisters is "Hear Me Roar." What is your opinion of it? I think it is not all that inventive or great.
It is arrogant and at the same time true. A lion is a pretty fierce animal with a loud roar, but he has his limitations. Cats are notoriously depicted at self-important in literature.
2. Tyrion is finally back home. What did you think of the interaction between him and his father? I'm not feeling the love.
Speaking of lions, the males have been known to kill their young. Not feeling the love either, LOL! But I adored Tyrion in that scene!
3. Anyone wondering how Tyrion's newly formed motley crew will affect the games (game of thrones that is), or do you think Tyrion's father will kill them? Could insisting that Tyrion was theirs until they were compensated lead to their downfall?
He is disgustingly obsequious with them right now, but who knows what he will do down the road. He will use them for his own gain; probably put them in an attack position where they’ll have a lot of causalities. He sees them as less than human.
4. Bronn saved Tyrion's butt, but it sounded like Tyrion didn't have a high regard for him. He brought up the fact he'd changed sides. Anyone surprised by this?
Tyrion uses the truth as his weapon of choice. I think, for the most part, this comment was aimed at his father and also as a way of leveling the playing field between the two men – which was really a favor/advantage to Bronn!
5. Sansa. What can I say? Anyone else like to smack some sense into her? Anyone else surprised she is still considered engaged to the young King? Do you think he likes her? I was a little confused by it until I read Eddard's chapter.
I have no desire to smack Sansa (though I did want to shake her a little over not telling the truth about the Ayra/Joffrey incident -- but not over the plea for mercy); I think she is going to get smacked around plenty enough before the end chapter. Yes, I was very surprised she is still considered engaged, but I started thinking they are using her to appease those people who admired Lord Stark. Nope, I don’t think King Joffrey likes or loves her; he is incapable of loving anyone but himself and his mother. (The sick connotations of that, I don’t even want to consider!)
6. I must confess, I was a little afraid to read chapter 58. I didn't see any other Eddard chapters. I feared our relationship with him had come to an end. Anyone else relieved it wasn't? Do you think he'll cave in because of Sansa?
I noticed that too; but, alas, I’m not relieved. I don’t think he’ll cave. BTW, loved what Varys said to him in the dungeon.
“You are an honest and honorable man, Lord Eddard. Ofttimes I forget that. I have met so few of them in my life.” He glanced around the cell. “When I see what honesty and honor have won you, I understand why.”Very sad, but true in the political environment of Westeros.
7. So as I and I believe a few others of you suspected, Catelyn didn't fully believe herself a Stark. I'd think that after 5 children and several more years of being married to her husband she'd have felt she was a Stark. Anyone else think she really had a problem with her husband's infidelity? Could that be the reason?
Yes, I do think that is part of it. And if Jon Snow is really her nephew and not her husband’s bastard, that makes it all even sadder.
8. What did you think of the agreement Catelyn reached with Lord Frey? That was an awful lot to ask for passage.
Actually, I was kind of chuckling over it. Catelyn listened to Lord Frey and gave him what he wanted; one of her smarter moves, for now. But, down the road? I don’t know.
My Responses to post 362, Sandy's Answers to Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 28 (Catelyn) - Chapter 31 (Tyrion)#1 - Catelyn has rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning for the way she treated Jon Snow. Catelyn is a wise woman, so I am unsure why she is taking circumstantial evidence and building a case against Tyrion.
Yes, she is a frustrating character for me; such a contradication. I'll repeat myself and say I wanted her to rise above her attitude toward Jon Snow. **sigh**
#3 - I've always thought Littlefinger was a little weasel, so no.
You ladies called this one when I didn't. Congrats!
#5 - At this point, isn't Sansa just a teensy bit angry at him for what happened with Arya, which led to the death of Lady?
Nope. Not a bit. At this point she is still wearing rose-colored glasses with regards to Joffrey. They are about to be stomped on, I'm afraid.
#6 - Need to revisit this...(the Queen being upset)
So do I. There may be some more clues here to Jon Arryn's death, or something.
#11 - I think they like plying him with alcohol because it makes him more agreeable.
Ahhh... so you think it was plain alcohol and not laced with anything. True. We've all heard hunting and alcohol don't mix.
#12 - She would view his chivalry as trying to suck up to her. She wants someone to blame and punish for Bran's accident.
Ditto!
Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 32 (Arya) - Chapter 35 (Eddard)1. Found all of Ayra's training to be interesting and fun. Were you surprised her father did not believe what she heard even after he found out Daenery's was pregnant?
Yes, very surprised.
2. Who do you think the two men were? I thought the one might be the Hound and the other might be Tywin, the Queen's father. He's still alive, right?
I thought they were council members, Varys and Littlefinger
3. Did you agree with Eddard declining the office of the King's Hand?
Not really. Couldn't he disagree with the king/council and still hold office?
4. Do you think Catelyn was wrong for going to see her sister? Why do you think she didn't travel back the same way she came?
Based on what happened at the Eyrie, yes, I think it was wrong. I think she changed her travel route so that Tyrion would be harder to find.
5. What is with going to see all the King's illegitimate children? I still can't figure this one out. Though I'm disliking Robert more and more.
We all know this now, right?
6. Gah! More death. Were you surprised that Jamie didn't kill Eddard? I think we'll see a lot more bloodshed before the book is done.
I was surprised he didn't kill him, but I guess it makes sense since Catelyn has Jaime's brother. TV SPOILER AHEAD ABOUT THIS SCENE(view spoiler)
Vi's Questions for Chapter 36 (Daenerys) - Chapter 39 (Eddard)1. How's your perception of Dothrakis? What do you think of them as a civilization?
My perception is definitely influenced by the TV series. They are brutal in many aspects, but fascinating.
2. Do you think Robb is correct in agreeing with Greyjoy's decision to call the banners? Do you think the Starks (well, some of them) can trust Greyjoy?
I think calling the banners may have been premature. I do think they can trust him.
3. Did the men have some reason in coming so close to Winterfell?
?
4. With all the events that are taking place now, do you agree that Catelyn was wrong in going to Lysa place?
YES!
5. Tyrion took a very bold chance. What do you think he was trying to achieve?
He's trying to survive.
6. Bah, Robert is soo not on my like-list. Now he wants Ned back as the Hand. What do you think of this?
Ned is his trusted friend. He trusts Ned more than anyone else he knows, especially Lannisters.
Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 40 (Catelyn) - Chapter 43 (Eddard)1. I now suspect Littlefinger is one of the men Ayra saw talking in the secret passage of the castle. His beard is pointy, and they talked about him having rings (page 440). Anyone else think so? Still unsure of his motives. Tyrion did say Littlefinger was out for Littlefinger. Maybe it's all for personal gain? Any thoughts?
I thought it was Littlefinger and Varys
2. I agree that Lysa is a bad influence on her son and he should be fostered. She seems slightly unbalanced. Anyone agree or disagree? She seems consumed by hate. I'm suspecting something more happened than just her husband being poisoned. Any ideas?
I think Lysa is a complete nutcase. Who breastfeeds a 7 year old??? That poor kid...gives a whole new meaning to Mama's Boy.
3. Loved that Jon tried to convince them to use Sam in another capacity and stop the torture of his training. Do you think they'll take his advice? I kept hoping he'd go home.
I hope they will take his advice. Jon has earned the respect of some of those in charge at the Wall.
4. Tyrion's story of his first wife was shocking and sad. Do you think she really was a whore or do you think they would do that to her because she was undesirable for a wife of a Lannister? I kept struggling between the two scenarios. I'm guessing she was hired.
Hmmmm, I hadn't considered the alternative...that Jamie and Tywin lied about her being a whore. That's very interesting and certainly possible. A very sad tale at any rate.
5. Tyrion is as smart as a whip. Did you think he'd be able to talk his way out of being enslaved? I guess he knows what drives people, but you also have to have some finesse in order to accomplish a change in thought.
Tyrion has honed his skills in persuasion, since they are his best weapon. Well, that and deep pockets.
6. I guess a medieval type tale isn't complete unless the villagers are pillaged? What do you think about all the chaos associate with the Lannisters? Do you believe it is the dastardly deeds of Jamie and his Motley crew?
It certainly sounds like Mountain is the culprit. I can't imagine Jaime doing this type of dirty work himself. It's too easy to commit violence on helpless peasants.
Lisa Kay's Questions for Chapter 41 (Sansa) - Chapter 44 (Eddard)1) Does Septa Mordane have reason to be upset that Lord Baelish/Littlefinger overheard what Sansa said her father’s decision regarding Ser Loras? (BTW, I think Lisarenee is right; he’s a little creepy now, stoking her face like that; do you? Though I did like what he said, “Life in not a song, sweetling.”) Comments.
I think she believes she has a reason to be upset...she doesn't want word to get out that Sansa is questioning authority, especially since she is to marry Joffrey who will expect blind obedience. Yep, creepy!
2) Seems like Sansa has fully succumb to revisionist history and also a bit of arrogance. Do you think she will make a good queen? What did you think of her dreaming of Lady.
Depends on the definition of "good queen." If a good queen blindly obeys her husband and dedicates herself to him no matter what acts of atrocity he commits, then sure, she'll be great. I think she misses Lady and doesn't allow herself to think about her during the day when she is around others.
3) Interesting that Sansa brought clarity to Lord Stark by seeing Prince Joffrey by his true sigil. Still, now that her direwolf is dead, do you see her as more than just an observer? Or just someone unprotected?
She is definitely unprotected, though I must admit that wasn't clear to me until later.
4) Where you surprised Lord Stark desired to confront Queen Cersei with her sins b/f speaking with King Robert? What of his choice of location; did that have any impact on her speaking the truth? It didn’t seem to affect her propositioning him. Comments.
Yes, it was very surprising. It gave an advantage to his worst enemy. What the heck was he thinking? It's as if the Japanese called the head of US forces on December 6, 1941 and said, guess what? We are going to attack Pearl Harbor tomorrow! I thought it weird that she propositioned him, given they are unrelated. (LOL)
5) Did the horse heart eating gross you out as much as it did me (which was a lot!)? Were you ever in doubt of her keeping it down? Does the dosh khaleen’s prophesy reassure you of the safety of Dany’s baby? Were you surprise that Dany and Drogo made love in front of witnesses? Does this make her more Dothraki?
YES, grossed me out a LOT, both on TV and the book. I was reading this scene on the bus this morning and it actually made me a little nauseous! No, I am not reassured by superstitions, unfortunately. Didn't they make love in front of a crowd before? I seem to recall this happened earlier (another couple) at their wedding feast(?) Didn't someone say this is the Dothraki way? Dani is definitely making all efforts to adopt Dothraki ways. She knows this is key to her survival.
6) Were you worried about Dany and her baby when Viserys threatened her with his sword? Were you surprised with his "crown of gold"?
I wasn't seriously worried about Dany since Ser Jorah and Drogo were right there; they would never let Viserys hurt her or the baby. I knew something REALLY bad was going to happen to Ol' V. I was cheering when this played out on TV. Kinda miss him though...he's one of those you love to hate.
7) Oh, man! I thought when Lyanna was saying “Promise me, Ned,” in his dream we were finally going to get a few answers or clues as to Jon Snow’s paternity. Where are you on this speculation?
Not sure exactly where this was said, but reference was made to Lyanna in a "bloody bed," which could very well mean she died in childbirth. If Jon is actualy Rhaegar's son, then he is a Targaryean...related to Dany...with the blood of the dragon....hmmmmmmmm
OK, this is how far I've goten so far!
8) What were your observations and conclusions about King Robert's fight with the boar?
9) Do you think Ned should have told Robert about the parentage of Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen? Do you think his decision a wise one?
10) Do you think Ned’s letter will reach Lord Stannis? Is so, any idea what will happen?
11) What do you think of Litterfinger’s advice? Does this make you doubt it was him that Arya overheard? Was he just testing Lord Stark’s resolve? Or is he just keeping his finger in every pie and/or stirring the soup with it?
My Responses to post 365, Sandy's Answers to Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 32 (Arya) - Chapter 35 (Eddard)#2 - I thought they were council members, Varys and Littlefinger
With the advantage of further reading (not that it is mentioned again) and the comments from this group, I think it was Varys in disguise and Magister Illyrio.
#3 - Couldn't he disagree with the king/council and still hold office?
Hummm... thinking on this one. I believe that it was to a point that Ned didn't want to enforce child murder or infanticide or be a part of a council that did. He was taking a steadfast stand and hoping King Robert would reconsider. I'll have to re-read that part to see if the King gave him an either/or ultimatum.
#6 - TV (view spoiler)
My Responses to post #366, Sandy's Answers to Vi's Questions for Chapter 36 (Daenerys) - Chapter 39 (Eddard)#6 - Robert didn't trust him enough, IMHO!
Lisa Kay wrote: "My Responses to post 365, Sandy's Answers to Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 32 (Arya) - Chapter 35 (Eddard)#2 - I thought they were council members, Varys and Littlefinger
With the advantage o..."
#6 TV - I don't think it was a major player, just one of the minions.
My Responses to post #367, Sandy’s Answers to Lisarenee's Questions for Chapter 40 (Catelyn) - Chapter 43 (Eddard)2. - ...gives a whole new meaning to Mama's Boy.
Ditto!
5. - Tyrion has honed his skills in persuasion, since they are his best weapon. Well, that and deep pockets.
LOL! Yes, and I think he has several skills besides persuasion. Intelligence and honesty, b/c he always strikes with truth and even his adversaries can hear the veracity of his statements and questions. It pushes buttons. Even calm, cool Catelyn gave an emotional reaction to Tyrion’s telling her of Littlefinger bragging about taking her maidenhead.
6. - I can't imagine Jaime doing this type of dirty work himself. It's too easy to commit violence on helpless peasants.
Good point.
Sandy said, "This is awesome...http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:...
That was a great visual. lol
Lisa Kay said, "I have no desire to smack Sansa (though I did want to shake her a little over not telling the truth about the Ayra/Joffrey incident -- but not over the plea for mercy); I think she is going to get smacked around plenty enough before the end chapter. Yes, I was very surprised she is still considered engaged, but I started thinking they are using her to appease those people who admired Lord Stark. Nope, I don’t think King Joffrey likes or loves her; he is incapable of loving anyone but himself and his mother. (The sick connotations of that, I don’t even want to consider!)"
Just to clarify, I meant that figuratively. I didn't really wish to hit her just infuse some sense into her perhaps by sitting her down and telling her the way things are. That did sound a tad bad the way I worded that.
My Responses to post #368, Sandy’s Answers to Lisa Kay's Questions for Chapter 41 (Sansa) - Chapter 44 (Eddard)#1 - …she doesn't want word to get out that Sansa is questioning authority, especially since she is to marry Joffrey who will expect blind obedience.
Ahhh… Good point, this lays a large part of the blame for Sansa’s “docile” behavior on Septa Mordane’s doorstep. Yet, when she pleaded for mercy for her father, she summoned memories of her mother’s strength.
#2 - I think she misses Lady and doesn't allow herself to think about her during the day when she is around others.
I am beginning to believe their dreams of their wolves (any of the Starks), are a much bigger portend than even I first realized. In her dream, page 477, she and Lady were running. To me, that means RUN! I think, even her thinking of her “lady” mother, page 625, when she had the strength to plead for mercy for her father, was recalling her direwolf, Lady.
#3 She is definitely unprotected, though I must admit that wasn't clear to me until later.
I was thinking she was totally unprotected too, until Lisarenee got me thinking (not just about Zombies)… and I started looking at her dreams of Lady.
4) What the heck was he thinking? It's as if the Japanese called the head of US forces on December 6, 1941 and said, guess what? We are going to attack Pearl Harbor tomorrow!
The Japanese did send two emissaries to see the president before Pearl Harbor; they weren’t admitted into the oval office in time. There has long been speculation as to just what they were going to say, ask, demand, etc. or if it was just a way to appear as if they were going to give a warning.
#5 - I was reading this scene on the bus this morning and it actually made me a little nauseous!
Oh, God! That and bus-motion-sickness! Ugh! I would have hurled.
#6 - Kinda miss him though...he's one of those you love to hate.
LMAO!
#7) - If Jon is actualy Rhaegar's son, then he is a Targaryean...related to Dany...with the blood of the dragon....hmmmmmmmm
Man-oh-man, I desperately want to say something now! But, I’ll be good.
Looking forward to the rest of your answers, Sandy!!!
Lisarenee wrote: "Just to clarify, I meant that figuratively. I didn't really wish to hit her just infuse some sense into her perhaps by sitting her down and telling her the way things are. That did sound a tad bad the way I worded that."Yes, Lisarenee, I knew you meant it figuratively! :) I'm just really feeling bad for Sansa right now (and my own thoughts about what I saw as her blind stupidity). I see trouble ahead for her. Why could I feel compassion for Lady and not as much for Sansa earlier? Lady was an innocent victim and I think Sansa is too. It really made me sit up and take notice.
Lisarenee wrote: "Sandy said, "This is awesome...http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:...
That was a great visual. lol
Lisa Kay said, "I have no desire to smack Sansa (though I did want to shake her a littl..."
Nah, it didn't sound bad. :-)
Sandy wrote: "This is awesome...http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fi..."
Man-oh-man! Did you check out Sandor Clegane (the Hound) in the background? He is giving nothing away on that scarred face of his, is he?
Response to Lisa Kay's comments, post 375#2 - I think she misses Lady and doesn't allow herself to think about her during the day when she is around others.
I am beginning to believe their dreams of their wolves (any of the Starks), are a much bigger portend than even I first realized. In her dream, page 477, she and Lady were running. To me, that means RUN! I think, even her thinking of her “lady” mother, page 625, when she had the strength to plead for mercy for her father, was recalling her direwolf, Lady.
Oh, I think you are definitely onto something here. I need to pay more attention to the dreams...
4) What the heck was he thinking? It's as if the Japanese called the head of US forces on December 6, 1941 and said, guess what? We are going to attack Pearl Harbor tomorrow!
The Japanese did send two emissaries to see the president before Pearl Harbor; they weren’t admitted into the oval office in time. There has long been speculation as to just what they were going to say, ask, demand, etc. or if it was just a way to appear as if they were going to give a warning.
I did not know this! Wow! To think the course of history COULD have been changed??
#7) - If Jon is actualy Rhaegar's son, then he is a Targaryean...related to Dany...with the blood of the dragon....hmmmmmmmm
Man-oh-man, I desperately want to say something now! But, I’ll be good.
Oh, now I am so intrigued! Wish I could just hole up somewhere and READ...
I'm having a great time with this group read!
Sandy wrote: "Oh, now I am so intrigued! Wish I could just hole up somewhere and READ...I'm having a great time with this group read!..."
I'm only one chapter ahead of the reading dates, but man-oh-man, it is a GASP causing one! Or maybe just an “I knew it!” for others.
I'm loving this group too!
thanks! I'm gonna start with the second book...are you guys doing a group read for the second book too?
Kellyflower wrote: "thanks! I'm gonna start with the second book...are you guys doing a group read for the second book too?"Ooooohhhh, I love that idea!
I'm baaack. Didn't have time to read unfortunately. Hopefully I can get back on track tomorrow. Sorry I went missing though :(
Lisa Kay's Questions for Chapter 48 (Jon) - Chapter 51 (Sansa)1) Did you expect Jon to keep his role in Samwell’s assignment a secret?
Yes, I did.
2) Do you think Samwell’s taking his vows with Jon before the heart tree will strengthen their friendship?
I think so. Sam is essentially severing ties with his blood family (although not by his choice, initially) and forming new ones with his Black Brothers.
3) If the the reason behind Mormont assigning him to the stewards was as Samwell stated, why was Ser Alliser smiling?
I'm not sure. Perhaps because he has gotten the upper hand on JOn and has shown him who's in charge, and that he shouldn't expect any special favors.
4) Do you feel Lord Stark should have said something about Prince Joffrey’s paternity when he called the small council together?
Based on what happened to him, yes. Although, I am not sure what good it would have done. Seems to me the guard had been bought and the Lannisters had all the might on their side. It was an ambush, basically.
5) Ohhhhh…Litterfinger is truly a viperous snake! Did this surprise you? What are your thoughts about Janos Slynt? Will there be repercussions for Ser Barristan, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, for his slight hesitation?
I was surprised, but I know I shouldn't have been. I am a little worried for Ser Barristan.
6) Did Arya learn enough from Syrio to survive and make it back to Winterfell? Will she be reunited with her direwolf on the way home?
Oh, I sure hope so on both counts! She has the presence of mind to remember her lessons in the face of crisis. Amazing for one so young!
7) Sansa! Will she ever get a clue? Can you see her parroting reflected in what other courtiers say in from of Queen Cersei? Where you as appalled as I was that she had revealed their planned departure to Queen Cersei?
Sansa has one goal: marriage to Joffrey. At this point she'll do anything to make that happen. I was appalled that she revealed the plan to Cersei, even more surprised that she disobeyed her father (since Arya is the disobedient one).
Lisarenee, I can do questions for today, if you like. Unless you already have them done.
That would be great Lisa. I've been running kids to the dentist and sports today and haven't found the time to do it yet.
Sweet heaven! Painting has taken over my life! I want to get back to the book! Wahhh!!!!
Questions for Chapter 60 (Jon) – Chapter 63 (Catelyn)1) Uncle Benjen is still missing; what are the odds that he’s going to come back as a Zombie Leader and fight Jon Snow? Or am I totally barking up the wrong tree here?
2) Something more than WOW! for the end of Chapter 60? Was it the biggest surprise of the story for you? If not, state your biggest surprise thus far.
3) Let us say, for the purpose of this question, our suspicions about Jon Snow being the love child of Rhaegar and Lyanna are correct (of course, if they married, then he’s a Prince, right?). Question: Having read the Old Bear’s reveal, what do you make of him gifting Jon with Longclaw?
4) Daenerys has no stomach for rape or slavery. When Ser Jorah tells Dany she is like her oldest brother, Rhaegar, we get a completely different picture of him. Comments on either of these statements?
5) First impressions on Mirri Maz Duur? Do you think there will be consequences to their burning the temple?
6) What do you think of Lord Tywin placing Tyrion and his wild “motley crew” in the vanguard? Do you believe Tyrion knows exactly what his father is doing? Do you think that there are limits on what a person can forgive?
7) Was Tyrion’s defeat of the knight intelligence or luck? Were these battle scenes either too long or too graphic for you or where you too caught up in the telling to notice?
8) Were you impressed that Lord Robb Stark was more cautious than Lord Tywin expected?
9) What are the Starks are going to do with Jaime? Surely not let this Lannister brother go as easily as the first.
10) Any change from your initial impression of Theon Greyjoy? Quote: “And Lord Tywin?” Catelyn interrupted. “Have you perchance taken Lord Tywin, Theon?” Catelyn asks an eloquent question of him. How is his arrogance different from Jamie’s?
Vi wrote: "I'm baaack. Didn't have time to read unfortunately. Hopefully I can get back on track tomorrow. Sorry I went missing though :("Missed you, Vi! Look forward to your comments.
Kellyflower wrote: "thanks! I'm gonna start with the second book...are you guys doing a group read for the second book too?"I am waxing and waning on this idea. I have the next book. However, this one has been a roller coaster for me as I almost put it down “forever!” several times. Nonetheless, I know Martin will not wrap everything up in a pretty bow for me… and I Desperately Want To Know what happens next! **sigh**
Responses to post #384, Sandy's Answers to Lisa Kay's Questions for Chapter 48 (Jon) - Chapter 51 (Sansa)#2 - "Sam is essentially severing ties with his blood family..."
I thought this too and felt the ceremony with Jon Snow much more binding.
#3 - "...and that he shouldn't expect any special favors..."
True. I can see where he would believe similarly to Jon Snow and not see the advantages of the situation like Samwell does.
#6 - Regarding Arya & Nymeria: "Oh, I sure hope so on both counts!"
Ditto! Man-oh-man, I've forgotten all but the basics of the legend of Warrior Queen Nymeria; must look it up again.
#7) - "Sansa has one goal: marriage to Joffrey."
True. Let's hope she can come up with a Plan B.
Carol wrote: "Sweet heaven! Painting has taken over my life! I want to get back to the book! Wahhh!!!!"Are your back and arms sore? Probably. You need a reading break. :)
Lisa Kay wrote: "Carol wrote: "Sweet heaven! Painting has taken over my life! I want to get back to the book! Wahhh!!!!"Are your back and arms sore? Probably. You need a reading break. :)"
I wish I could take a reading break. If I sit down with my book I won't get back up. lol Not sore, just frustrated. I hate painting and the bathroom is the worst room ever! It's small and there are a lot of things to paint around and don't ask how I managed to paint behind the terlit. Thank goodness all that's left is the green trim. I'm hoping it will only take about 1.5 hours to do, but that's probably just wishful thinking.
Questions for Chapter 60 (Jon) – Chapter 63 (Catelyn)1) Uncle Benjen is still missing; what are the odds that he’s going to come back as a Zombie Leader and fight Jon Snow? Or am I totally barking up the wrong tree here?
It's a definite possibility and I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
2) Something more than WOW! for the end of Chapter 60? Was it the biggest surprise of the story for you? If not, state your biggest surprise thus far.
You mean the secret identity of Master Aemon and the sacrifice he made? Yes, I was very shocked. I'm surprised at how dedicated the men are to the wall. I want Jon out of there. I want him to have a family.
3) Let us say, for the purpose of this question, our suspicions about Jon Snow being the love child of Rhaegar and Lyanna are correct (of course, if they married, then he’s a Prince, right?). Question: Having read the Old Bear’s reveal, what do you make of him gifting Jon with Longclaw?
I'm thinking a father/son like relationship might be beginning. It makes me wonder if we're correct after all.
4) Daenerys has no stomach for rape or slavery. When Ser Jorah tells Dany she is like her oldest brother, Rhaegar, we get a completely different picture of him. Comments on either of these statements?
We don't know enough about Rhaegar. We've had a onesided and possibly distorted picture of him via Robert. Wouldn't it be interesting if Eddard had a hand in saving Dany's mom and brother?
5) First impressions on Mirri Maz Duur? Do you think there will be consequences to their burning the temple?
Hmmm... Didn't really think about that. Maybe.
6) What do you think of Lord Tywin placing Tyrion and his wild “motley crew” in the vanguard? Do you believe Tyrion knows exactly what his father is doing? Do you think that there are limits on what a person can forgive?
Yes, he knows. He keeps confronting him about it. That little bit he said to the girl he hired I think says a lot about Tyrion.
7) Was Tyrion’s defeat of the knight intelligence or luck? Were these battle scenes either too long or too graphic for you or where you too caught up in the telling to notice?
If I saw them played out on the screen they might be too much, but I'm fine with the book version. I'm still attempting to get over the eating of the heart.
8) Were you impressed that Lord Robb Stark was more cautious than Lord Tywin expected?
His father didn't raise a fool.
9) What are the Starks going to do with Jaime? Surely not let this Lannister brother go as easily as the first.
I wanted them to get rid of him. He's too dangerous and if he can bribe someone to let him go it could mean the end of them all. On the other hand, maybe they could maim him and trade him for Eddard.
10) Any change from your initial impression of Theon Greyjoy? Quote: “And Lord Tywin?” Catelyn interrupted. “Have you perchance taken Lord Tywin, Theon?” Catelyn asks an eloquent question of him. How is his arrogance different from Jamie’s?
I think Theon displays the typical thinking of the average teenage boy. He's not yet experienced with all this war and strategizing. He's still learning everything.
Lisa Kay, Thanks for posting the questions. Ended up with a headache which I thankfully managed to get rid of. You are a great buddy. :)
Questions for Chapter 64 (Daenerys) – Chapter 67 (Sansa)1. Wow! So much going on. Do you think Daenerys' husband will survive and if so will he still be human? This whole blood magic sounds a little scary. I can't believe so much could happen in one Chapter.
2. Eddard did die after securing his daughter's place. I frankly, wouldn't have believed they would have kept her safe. I figured once he was gone she would be exterminated (Sorry Doctor Who going on in the background). What did you think? Surprised she's still engaged? (I sound like a broken record, huh?)
3. Sansa finally gets it, and you called it Lisa Kay, she's getting smacked around. Anyone surprised? Apparently Joffrey sees heads as appropriate tokens of affection - how romantic NOT!
4. Has anyone taken notice of all the Sigils being presented? There are unicorns, bears, fish, lions, deer, wolves, golden roses, Falcons, dragons, kraken, etc Which would you want for your Sigil? Which is the least appealing? Which would you like to see come to life in the book? I hope this mean more of the sigils will come to life in the book. I want to see kraken and unicorns.
5. Okay not that I've taken a slight road trip I'll get back on track. Ayra has been surviving on the streets around the castle. Do you think Yoren from the wall will harm her? He seemed a little rough with her.
6. Anyone else think they'd find something on Jon's parentage in the family crypts? Were we totally wrong?
7. Osha looks like she may play a more key role than I previously would have thought. Anyone else surprised?
My Answers to Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 64 (Daenerys) – Chapter 67 (Sansa) 1. Wow! So much going on. Do you think Daenerys' husband will survive and if so will he still be human? This whole blood magic sounds a little scary. I can't believe so much could happen in one Chapter.
Someone let slip about Khal Drogo, so the first questions I can’t answer; but, yes, pretty scary
2. Eddard did die after securing his daughter's place. I frankly, wouldn't have believed they would have kept her safe. I figured once he was gone she would be exterminated (Sorry Doctor Who going on in the background). What did you think? Surprised she's still engaged? (I sound like a broken record, huh?)
I was completely shocked that Eddard caved and confessed to treason. (I thought Ayra was a goner too.) Only a little amazed Sansa’s still engaged; King Joffrey needs her to appease those who knew Lord Stark as a fair man and respected his fighting abilities. But, still, ugh. Those rose-colored glasses are smashed to smithereens now.
3. Sansa finally gets it, and you called it Lisa Kay, she's getting smacked around. Anyone surprised? Apparently Joffrey sees heads as appropriate tokens of affection - how romantic NOT!
You know, the only thing that is saving the book for me is the bad guys go down along with the good guys. This little piss ant needs to die! He is just sick, sick, perverted sick. I don’t think his mother wanted him to kill Ned. He is out of control and, with his brand of “justice”, he will not be a beloved king, from the lowest to the highest.
4. Has anyone taken notice of all the Sigils being presented? There are unicorns, bears, fish, lions, deer, wolves, golden roses, Falcons, dragons, kraken, etc. Which would you want for your Sigil? Which is the least appealing? Which would you like to see come to life in the book? I hope this mean more of the sigils will come to life in the book. I want to see kraken and unicorns.
Some of them sound beautiful. I would be hard-pressed to pick, but I do love animals. Maybe the direwolf, since it is one of the reasons I wanted to read this book (I read almost all romance). But the falcon sounds neat. And a hummingbird would be beautiful, if I designed my own. I didn’t like the “burning man” – kind of made me think of the “walking” Zombies or a “scorched earth” philosophy. Did you notice Dany was seeing images that were of the various Sigils in that tent too? Specifically, a “great wolf” and “a man wreathed in flames” (and made me reconsider my previous opinion). What was that all about?
5. Okay not that I've taken a slight road trip I'll get back on track. Ayra has been surviving on the streets around the castle. Do you think Yoren from the wall will harm her? He seemed a little rough with her.
I was pretty freaked out by that too and felt Yoren was a little tough, even if he was trying to get her not to give herself away. I had to read it twice to make sure I understood that part b/c I was so flipped out over it. I was frantically checking the appendix for who/what he was. But, he is like a recruiter for the Wall, right? So maybe she’ll end up there with Jon Snow. Maybe not, as he knows she is a girl. At first I thought he might have some nefarious plans for her, but on a second read, I changed my mind. We’ll see.
6. Anyone else think they'd find something on Jon's parentage in the family crypts? Were we totally wrong?
I definitely hoped we would! **sigh** Nope, we weren’t wrong about Jon’s parentage. :)
7. Osha looks like she may play a more key role than I previously would have thought. Anyone else surprised?
You know, to tell the truth, I don’t know how to differentiate who is important (i.e. in the story for the long haul) or not. But, yes, Osha looks like she may be of importance to Bran down the road. Maybe as a counterpart to Old Nan?
WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY QUESTION: How did Osha get on the other side of the wall? Is that a story in and of itself, or did I miss something?
Lisarenee wrote: "Lisa Kay, Thanks for posting the questions. Ended up with a headache which I thankfully managed to get rid of. You are a great buddy. :)"Thanks! You make a great monitor, and buddy too!
BTW, is there a way to link this "discussion" to this book that appears on this group's home page? Just a suggestion, as some of the other books have done so.
I'm seriously gonna try to catch up tomorrow :) I'm thinking since the show and the book follow so closely I can just skim over the parts that I watched in the show, and then read from where I stopped watching the show.
Lisa Kay's answer to a question from for Chapter 64 (Daenerys) – Chapter 67 (Sansa)"5. Okay not that I've taken a slight road trip I'll get back on track. Ayra has been surviving on the streets around the castle. Do you think Yoren from the wall will harm her? He seemed a little rough with her.
I was pretty freaked out by that too and felt Yoren was a little tough, even if he was trying to get her not to give herself away. I had to read it twice to make sure I understood that part b/c I was so flipped out over it. I was frantically checking the appendix for who/what he was. But, he is like a recruiter for the Wall, right? So maybe she’ll end up there with Jon Snow. Maybe not, as he knows she is a girl. At first I thought he might have some nefarious plans for her, but on a second read, I changed my mind. We’ll see."
I checked earlier and if you look in chapter 32 (Ayra), page 348 in my paperback, it describes Yoren coming to Eddard to ask for more men. He sees Ayra dressed as a boy and mistook her for one of his sons. It was when she warned her father about what the 2 men in the dungeon/secret passage had said.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
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#3 - I have now come to believe that anything and everything could be a harbinger of what's to come.
Man-oh-man! Too true, LOL!
#4 - Jaime clearly wants to hold the power...it's surprising he got off the throne so easily.
That's what surprised me too! And, b/c of the way this
soapintrigue abound, I was trying to figure out why ?? Were the Lannisters just not powerful enough to beat the Starks at that time?#12 - ...Arya...
Ditto, ditto, ditto!