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Liam || Books 'n Beards
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Jun 27, 2013 06:44PM
Thermopylae.
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Bette wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "I am angered how the Discovery channel or Nat Geo channel repeats its documentaries on Hitler so often without mentioning even once that they and most of Europe were complicit in th..."The bottom line, unfortunately, is that -- not only do most people fail the Milgram Test* -- but they will almost always align themselves with an orchestrated revisionist reimagining of history, especially if it exculpates them of their personal complicity in actual atrocities.
* It varies by nationality, and I don't know the figures for Australia, but in America (as in Germany), about two-thirds of participants fail. Both are historically authoritarian cultures that place a high premium on conformity and acquiescence in official versions of the truth. As I recall, Australia began as a penal colony -- not a population genetically or socially predisposed to kowtow to authority -- but as I say, I don't actually know whether Australians fare very significantly better on the Milgram. Humans in general are quite willing to inflict potentially lethal harm on others if they think they have an "official" warrant for it. Obedience to authority aside, there's some element of Schadenfreude involved. Empathic people of conscience are always the exception, and when totalitarianism sets in, *they* are the ones the government first always "comes for." (viz., Pastor Niemöller)
Liam wrote: "The distribution of wealth in Australia is fairly good, I think. Which is one of the main reasons the "We are the 99%" protests which happened here pissed me off so much.So many self-important, s..."
You've made me curious. When I started teaching, virtually any competent student of mine who managed to graduate could find a good job related to his or her field of study (computer science) with a fairly munificent salary. Today, only a very small percentage of only the very best students can find what is usually underemployment -- and only after a long search, unless they happen to be well-connected.
I'm presuming, from your comment, that this is *not* currently true in Australia?
Lit Bug wrote: "Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "Ashleigh wrote: "Historical accounts are often skewed towards what the doco makers or authors want though. You do get some that are not as biased but not in all history...I distrust, therefore I am.:)
I'm sure Descartes would heartily approve. He wanted to accept nothing on authority, but actually attempted a synthetic a priori rationalist proof of the existence of God. (It was logically defective, but the attempt was still admirable. The world needs more rationalists and disbelievers.)
Anybody awake, there in the Antipodes? It's 3 a.m. here, and only vampires are available for conversation.
The weather in Melbourne (although cold) has been glorious lately. Makes me want to take time off work and enjoy the sunny days :) (would that exuse work if I said that to a doctor for the certificate off work LOL)
I think personality has already played a large part in employment selection...and found over a seventeen year period working for a large cooperate company, that sometimes the employer hired the wrong people based on a false presentation at interview - but guess what, the employer usually couldn't see it - the falsest personalities I found went further then the ones who were actually beter at their job.It is human nature...just look at what has happened in our political world the past few days.
That is always the case - as a rule, it is presumed that introverts are quiet because they have nothing to offer, or because they are unsure of their own judgement. They mistake confidence and dynamism for skill and good judgement. Being introvert or ambivert is actually considered a shortcoming or a defect in your personality, while it is simply a difference of visibility. Just because people do not want to LISTEN to those who are not extroverts, or who cannot efficiently garner attention themselves, it doesn't mean introverts are dumb.True, being an extrovert has some advantages, the foremost being easily noticed, but it doesn't mean introverts have a serious defect or flaw in their mental make-up.
Mark wrote: "Liam wrote: "The distribution of wealth in Australia is fairly good, I think. Which is one of the main reasons the "We are the 99%" protests which happened here pissed me off so much.So many self..."
We've got a pretty good employment rate I think, but there's no shortage of dole bludgers that's for sure. Not that that is necessarily their fault, I've been on the dole many a time.
Sharon wrote: "I think personality has already played a large part in employment selection...and found over a seventeen year period working for a large cooperate company, that sometimes the employer hired the wro..."You're right about human nature. Fraud and dishonesty always take one further than decency or competence. That's why the world is run by monstrous sociopaths.
Lit Bug wrote: "That is always the case - as a rule, it is presumed that introverts are quiet because they have nothing to offer, or because they are unsure of their own judgement. They mistake confidence and dyna..."Michael wrote: "I think personality plays a big part in it too in terms of getting a job. It seems to me the Western world these days is heavily in favor of extroverts. That shows through in our schools and employ..."
Absolutely true. Have you seen the book, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking?
Liam wrote: "Mark wrote: "Liam wrote: "The distribution of wealth in Australia is fairly good, I think. Which is one of the main reasons the "We are the 99%" protests which happened here pissed me off so much...."
I looked it up. Australia's unemployment rate declined from 5.6% to 5.5% in May of this year, but that figure may be misleading because of a large number of "casual" or part-time workers.
But I very well know the stats for my own country.
The "official" government-issued unemployment rate in the US is 7.5%, but since that completely omits tens of millions of "discouraged workers" (people who have been unemployed for more than a year and have given up looking, because it's hopeless), the actual rate has been computed by many prominent economists to be closer to 23%, and that still neglects to factor in people who count as "employed" even though they can find only part-time work, and the tens of millions of college graduates who are reduced to performing menial jobs on the order of making burgers at McDonald's. The total number of Americans who want work but are absolutely unable to find it, want full-time work but can only obtain part-time work, or are grotesquely "underemployed" relative to their academic credentials and professional qualifications almost certainly exceeds 50%. New college graduates are generally in despair over any prospect of finding employment, let alone employment suitable for a college graduate. Also, the "minimum wage" is so grotesquely low, that many "employed" people (rank-and-file Walmart workers, for example) are actually homeless.
I should add that, whereas most Democrats in Congress are in favor of raising the minimum wage (by a small amount), they have no prospect of doing so. Virtually all Republicans are intransigently opposed to raising the minimum wage, and most are actively in favor of eliminating the MW altogether, because they feel that people who report to work from cardboard boxes on the streets are overpaid, whereas CEO's, who average more than $20 million/year in pay and benefits, do not get enough and should also not have to pay taxes.
Yeah your minimum wage over there has always blown me away. Fresh out of highschool in my first crappy retail job, even I was getting $16/h.
Liam wrote: "Yeah your minimum wage over there has always blown me away. Fresh out of highschool in my first crappy retail job, even I was getting $16/h."Yes, the federal minimum wage here is $7.25/hr., but people in many categories of jobs actually earn less, and as I say, the Republicans are utterly determined to eliminate the MW entirely, because they think $7.25 is way too much. There are millions of college graduates in this country (even people with advanced degrees) who are actually stuck earning $7.25 an hour, because there are no better jobs available, and everyone is expendable. Contrast that with your $16/hr., right out of high school. And I swear to you, the majority of Americans would attack me for suggesting that this is not "the best country in the world." (My stepfather, who served in WW II, did so this evening, even though he has to pay $400/month for eyedrops, over and above his $300/month Medicare supplemental payments. And he absolutely will not believe me when I say that other countries have universal health care. He says I can't believe what I read, and anyone I talk to on the internet who claims that universal healthcare exists is part of a propaganda conspiracy. He's very old (though in better health than I am), so I generally indulge him, but his attitude *is* representative of the mindset of most of Americans. Even as they're suffering horrendously, they believe that this is "the best country in the world" with a fervor that is downright religious.
Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "That is always the case - as a rule, it is presumed that introverts are quiet because they have nothing to offer, or because they are unsure of their own judgement. They mistake con..."I have TBRed it, but haven't got a chance to read it still - it annoys me to not end when quietness is pinned down to dumbness or low self-esteem or lack of enthusiasm - they try to fit introverts into *their* assumptions of how so-called normal people should be.
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Yes, the federal minimum wage here is $7...."
$7.25. Absolutely amazing. How do people survive? Is your cost of living lower than ours?
Lit Bug wrote: "Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "That is always the case - as a rule, it is presumed that introverts are quiet because they have nothing to offer, or because they are unsure of their own judgement. The..."I am strongly INFP (on the Myers-Briggs), and I discovered in an informal poll on another group I used to frequent, that about 80% of (active) participants were introverts. People who read a lot tend to be introverted, so obviously, it is a good idea to ignore their advice and opinions. (Of course, millions of extroverts are voracious readers as well, but at least on GR, it does seem that introverts represent a higher percentage of the population).
Ashleigh wrote: "Upim very much an introvert I think. Social settings where I don't know people make me nervous but it doesn't mean I can't talk to people"Hey, it's a perfectly respectable Jungian category (though we all have a "shadow," extroverted side), and most writers (and scientists), as it happens, are introverts. Introversion just means that dealing with people causes you to lose energy, whereas social interaction causes extroverts to gain energy. You personally *must* have *some* desire to interact with people, because you're here talking. We introverts do not deserve to be anathematized! Unfortunately (if Isabel Myers was correct, though her estimate has been challenged) we're only about 25% of the population, and all minorities tend to fall prey to anathematization and misunderstanding.
Phrynne wrote: "Mark wrote: "Liam wrote: "Yeah your minimum wage over there has always blown me away....Yes, the federal minimum wage here is $7.25/hr.
Absolutely amazing. How do people survive? Is your cost of living lower than ours? ..."
No, the cost of living is appallingly high, and (for me, at least) unsustainable. The answer to your question, "how do people survive?" is, I'm afraid, that they often don't, or they scrape by as best they can in appalling circumstances.
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Yes, the federal minimum wage here is $7.25/hr.
Absolutely amazing. How do people survive? .. I'm afraid, that they often don't, or they scrape by as best they can in appalling circumstances..."
Which is heartbreakingly sad!
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And we DO have universal health care :) that is one of the things that I just don't understand about the US - the fight against health care that any other western nation considers normal.It's something I just can't get my head around. That and their gun control issues... (Sorry Mark!)
Phrynne wrote: "Emigrate Mark. I've done it twice! It is quite easy and I am sure we have room for you in Australia."That's kind, Phrynne. There's nothing I'd love more, but I'm elderly and disabled and essentially destitute, and I don't think your government would be desperately eager to import an ancient, penurious academician with serious health problems who has nothing to contribute to the economy (unless you guys desperately need polyglot logicians who can decrypt Finnegans Wake). I imagine it's not a high priority.
Leonie wrote: "And we DO have universal health care :) that is one of the things that I just don't understand about the US - the fight against health care that any other western nation considers normal.It's so..."
I know. We're run by Randian sociopaths who have spent the last forty years effectively brainwashing our quite spectacularly ignorant population, in part through the "conservative entertainment complex" (Fox News), so that you've got people actively rooting for their own economic evisceration.
And nothing to be sorry about on the lethal weapons issue. I loathe guns, but they are, in this country, an object of worship and practically a phallic sacrament. And the NRA has an utter stranglehold on most of our politicians, in any case. To them, mowing down hecatombs of schoolchildren is not a bug, but a feature.
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That's kind, Phrynne. There's nothing I'd love more, but I'm elderly and disa..."
You just need your own boat. That's how most of our immigrants get here these days.
You just need your own boat. That's how most of our immigrants get here these days.You're kidding, right? Isn't that illegal? How do they get a job, and later, citizenship?
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You're kidding, right? Isn't that illegal? How do they get a job, and later, citizenship?"
I was making a joke (not a good one I admit) about boat people - currently one of the big issues Kevin has to deal with. I forgot that many people on here are not living in Australia and are not so familiar with our issues.
I was seriously thinking about investing in a good boat and a captain! ;D
Lit Bug wrote: "I was seriously thinking about investing in a good boat and a captain! ;D"If you had enough money for a good boat and a captain, they'd probably let you immigrate legally. I have the impression that few countries turn away multimillionaire applicants for residency. :)
I checked out the requirements for Canada once, actually. They have an index of eligibility computed on the basis of:
1) Your fluency in English and French (no problem)
2) Your level of education and professional credentials (no problem)
3) Your age (BIG problem)
4) Your assets (wealth, essentially; they don't want to risk your becoming a drag on the social safety net): BROBDINGNAGIAN problem
Anyway, I'd imagine that Australia would be much the same, except that it wouldn't matter that I speak fluent French.
Well, I meant the cheapest possible rough wooden boat... Ain't got that kind of money either ;)
Lit Bug wrote: "Well, I meant the cheapest possible rough wooden boat... Ain't got that kind of money either ;)"Since you mentioned getting your own captain, I was thinking probably a yacht. No such luck, I guess. :)
LOLLLL - yacht! I wonder if a century of life would be enough to put together that much money, if the prices remain stagnant... sigh...
Well, I feel confident that I have a good ten minutes left in me. How fast is it possible to make ten million dollars if you *don't* have a century?
Rob a bank. Or hack/identity fraud.
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I've never committed a crime, so I'm not sure I could get into the mood. Wouldn't be able to overcome my neurotic obsession with law-abiding behavior. :) I wonder if asylum is a possibility. (Though I'd probably try Iceland; Australia is too chummy with the US.)Alas, Lit Bug, I think we are stuck where we are. Let me know if you manage to flag down an alien spaceship, though. Ganymede might not be too bad: I'll bet the economy there is better.
God, I remember a Ross Noble bit when I saw him live last year sometime about how the Navy should just fire Fruchocs at boat people, and if they eat them then they're allowed in.Not sure if that'll translate interstate.
Phrynne wrote: "You don't need French OR English to get into Australia. But yes you do need the right qualifications, good health and be the right age. My mother came here as a pensioner but only because I was alr..."Amazed that one wouldn't need English, but I'd fail right away on the "good health" stipulation and they probably wouldn't want an immigrant who had lived through the paleolithic era. Also, I lack relatives resident in Australia. Perhaps I could be adopted by a dingo.
Liam wrote: "God, I remember a Ross Noble bit when I saw him live last year sometime about how the Navy should just fire Fruchocs at boat people, and if they eat them then they're allowed in.Not sure if that'..."
Never eaten one. Are they actually worse than living in Texas?
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Not sure if that'..."
Love Fruchocs Liam!!!!
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http://robernmenz.com.au/fruchocs/fru...
South Aussie has a bunch of stuff apparently nobody else does. Snow Drop, Smiley Fritz, Fruchocs, Farmer's Union Iced Coffee.
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Snow drop is a soft drink, sort of like coke but not? Sort of cola/creaming soda mixture, I dunno.
Smiley fritz.
God, Ross Noble again - I went to a few of his shows last year, and if you aren't familiar with Ross, people leave him presents on the stage at the interval and generally the second half of the show is just him dealing with all the crap people have left him.
Someone left him smiley fritz (someone left him fruchocs one night and Iced Coffee another), and he immediately slapped it on his face and danced around. He then grabbed the sunglasses off a lady in the front row and put them on over the meat-mask he was now wearing, and continued dancing around.
After about five minutes he went to give the sunnies back, and the lady refused. He apologised for taking them, but insisted that they were fine, the meat juice would wipe off easy. And the lady's friend turned around and said "She's muslim."
I have never laughed so hard in my life.
Mark wrote: "Phrynne wrote: "You don't need French OR English to get into Australia. But yes you do need the right qualifications, good health and be the right age. My mother came here as a pensioner but only b..."Hey Mark, Just come on a visa and never ever go back:)
What Mark says about the US economy should frighten everyone. Study the pattern before the Great Depression. What's happening today is identical. Too much money in the hands of the privileged, but not nearly enough jobs for those who want to work to be gainfully employed. Economic waste and over-indulgence at every level is terrifying - not just by Governments, but in corporations and in the households of the average-and-above wage earners. Prices of luxuries are now falling fast but prices of essential items (basic foodstuffs, energy, insurance, government charges, etc.) are skyrocketing. Australia is, thankfully, quite prosperous by comparison with other nations, but not for long I fear.
Yes, Mark, come on a visa and never go back. Or come by boat. The ''bleeding hearts'' in this country insist we can't discriminate against the ''poor immigrants'' who break the law (how do they afford to get here if they are so destitute??). Certain ''disadvantaged'' groups have every want pandied to by the powers-that-be. But the battling honest worker (or wanna-be-worker) and the retiree who slogged for 50 years to save a tiny nestegg suffer in relative silence when things get tough. America today. Hopefully not Australia tomorrow! I fear neither Rudd, Abbott or Palmer can save us though.
Unfortunately, if America goes down they're likely to drag the rest of the world with them. Everyone's economies are so tightly connected to the USA's.
Lorraine - You should be frightened. I do not exaggerate when I say that my country has been highjacked by a cabal of corporatist plutocrats and, worse, extremist, irrational ideologues who have repeatedly sought to shut down the government and repeatedly held a knife at the throat of the world economy to get what they want. Not only are you historically spot on in adducing the conditions preceding the Great Depression, but the potential for harm, now, is even greater, because we have legislators, here, who in a stark ideological sense, are clinically insane.My health is execrable and I really do lack the financial means to emigrate, so you don't have to worry about my imposing a burden on your economy, which is something I wouldn't do. I'm too old to be able to contribute anything materially, and I'm not "invested" in your system: all my life, I've paid into US ostensible federal provisions for retirement, which are now systematically being gutted.
Liam - you're right that it's all interconnected, that the US has the wherewithal to bring down the global economy, that the predators on Wall Street are pressing relentlessly to have another go at complete deregulation, and that, bottom line, the corporatocracy is multinational, so you have your own monsters to fend off. The advantage Australia enjoys over the US, as far as I can see, is that half your citizenry is not unutterably stupid and inhabiting an alternate reality confected by Fox News, and that there are outrages (like the elimination of healthcare, or a $7.25 minimum wage, or massive voter suppression) that you'd actually know enough to resist. I'm not optimistic, either, but you really need to be prepared for a political fight.
Yes, Liam, we are tightly connected. Not only that, but we've sold out to huge US corporations who now dominate in retailing and many other industries. Mark, I'd like to think your compliments on Aussie intelligence are deserved, but sadly I don't think so. We are blindly following the path to destruction, and what astonishes me about our politicians is that they latch on to an idea that failed overseas adopt it here, or else they latch on to one that worked overseas and adopt it - but with changes that make it fail. Or they adopt ideas that can't work here because of different demographics, but they pay no attention to the details that spell disaster. As for elimination of health care, we are rocketing down that path, sadly. We HAD a good system. Now it's fair, but it's rapidly deteriorating.
I think our biggest problem, though, is media influence. Media moguls - not voters - decide who will govern and what policies will and won't be adopted. They decide what they want, then they skew reporting to get the public to vote according to the media mogul's desires. And compulsory voting means people vote who don't know what day it is, let alone who's standing on what policies, and people vote based on who they perceive will give them personal benefit - not on who will benefit the nation as a whole. At one polling booth, not so long ago, a voter was heard to tell his mate he didn't know who to vote for. The mate replied, shouting, ''Well if ya wanna keep ya dole cheque, ya betta vote Labor mate''. When voters with that mentality have a say on who governs and what policies are implemented, we are in deep trouble!
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