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Lit Bug (Foram)
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Jun 27, 2013 02:40AM
I followed your comments, but can't make out much - are you folks in support of Gillard or the new PM? :(((
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Hmmm - I guess I can't understand sitting here the difference between Gillard and the new PM. But I see she is very popular and had heard (a few years ago) that she is very capable. Will things be drastically different with the new PM?
Liam wrote: "For someone who lives in South Australia, you really think the Libs have their act together?"I was talking about the Libs being preferable federally.
Liam wrote: "Gillard is from South Aussie, I think she'd fight dirty.
EDIT: Oh she was raised in Mitcham/Unley area, she would DEFINITELY fight dirty :P"
She graduated Unley High the the year my mum started there. Fun fact.
Lit Bug wrote: "I followed your comments, but can't make out much - are you folks in support of Gillard or the new PM? :((("Was in support of Gillard, that way the Libs would easily get in power. I still think Abbott will be the next PM though (Turnbull would be preferable tbh).
Mod
"The Hopelessly Ineffectual Seppuku-Prone Corrupt Party with Ostensibly Good Intentions that Regularly Takes Dives in Elections and Refuses to Fight for Anything but Isn't Actively in Favor of Genocidal Extermination of the Poor and Minorities"
Genocidal Extermination of the Poor and Minorities???
Phrynne wrote: "Mark - I don't always understand everything you say but I do enjoy the way you write. I particularly liked "The Hopelessly Ineffectual Seppuku-Prone Corrupt Party with Ostensibly Good Intentions t..."
Thanks, Phyrynne. It seemed to need more, but that was all I could manage in one breath. :)
Mod
"The Hopelessly Ineffectual Seppuku-Prone Corrupt Party with Ostensibly G..."
:D
Well, is it that big as an issue? I mean, is it rampant or only isolated incidents?
Every option is as bad as the next, it's just that Abbott is worse.Gillard was fine, and it was nice having a South Aussie lady in charge. As far as I can tell she didn't really do anything.
The only thing I can really remember Gillard doing was the carbon tax. Which was going to be unpopular no matter who did it, but fundamentally it is something I completely agree with.
Mod
Ashleigh wrote: "I don't think we will ever have a good choice :("I wish I'd been old enough to vote when Keating was around. :C
I dare say most countries never have good choices. There are ethnic strifes everywhere in the world, or almost everywhere. And most policies are framed in a way to protect the rich and allow them to prosper. However, judging by the eagerness of Indians to settle in Australia, and by your own disappointment, honestly, I don't know what to think.
Ashleigh wrote: "Yes that works because it seems that is what they do."It's what the Republicans actively and aggressively pursue (and have succeeded in, actuarially). The Democrats enjoy the distinction of not actually officially endorsing those objectives, which makes them the party of relative virtue, even though they've done virtually nothing to halt the economic carnage, and have also unilaterally disarmed, rendering the Senate useless, by refusing to change the rules of the filibuster. So we have two houses of Congress: the Impotent and Suicidal One, and the Evil Incarnate One that worships Ayn Rand. They are, naturally, perpetually gridlocked, while the right-wing cabal on the Supreme Court mostly amuses itself by dismantling the Constitution and (as of Tuesday) eliminating the right to vote. It would make a good "Hunger Games" novel, except that I expect that was sort of Suzanne Collins' point.
I think we make it sound a lot worse than it is. You've got to make your own drama, sometimes.Michael wrote: "Liam wrote: "Ashleigh wrote: "I don't think we will ever have a good choice :("
I wish I'd been old enough to vote when Keating was around. :C"
Keating was a master of the verbal stoushes. Check ..."
God yes. Everything I've seen/heard about him I absolutely love, possibly besides Australia to Asia. And even that I can see the reasoning behind.
Mod
Me too :)
Lit Bug wrote: "Well, is it that big as an issue? I mean, is it rampant or only isolated incidents?"Oh, "rampant" doesn't even begin to describe it. "Apocalyptic" would be closer, but would still fail adequately to convey the spirit of viciousness behind it.
Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "Well, is it that big as an issue? I mean, is it rampant or only isolated incidents?"Oh, "rampant" doesn't even begin to describe it. "Apocalyptic" would be closer, but would stil..."
Are you serious? At the most what I've heard were some racial attacks, but they were some years ago. I thought things are better now. (I only know of the racial attacks on some Indians, but am not sure if they were personal spats or actually racial.) Which genocidal attacks are you talking about? Am asking in order to know.
Well, the poor are condemned to suffer in every country, I guess.
Mod
I can't remember which country it was but some parliament somewhere the other day the honourable members were actually pulling each other's hair. It was very funny.
Mark, are you referring to the US or to Australia? I was talking about Australia, and saw only now that you live in the States.
Lit Bug wrote: "Are you serious?... Which genocidal attacks are you talking about? Am asking in order to know..."When you shred the social safety net, cheapen labor to the point at which an enormous percentage of Americans are doomed to perpetual unemployment and the ones who are employed can't afford to eat regularly and no one can afford medical care (because we're the UNIQUE "wealthy" country that doesn't provide it) and 27% of your children are living in poverty... well, statistically, that has the result of causing millions of deaths and untold human suffering that would not otherwise occur, but most particularly among oppressed minorities. And that's what I'm referring to as "genocide," because it's a massive human sacrifice we've decided to make in preference to charging billionaires one additional dime in taxes, and also so billions can be given away in corporate welfare to the wealthiest corporations on the face of the earth.
I agree now to your application of the term - I was taking it too literally till now - and I see it occurring here in India on a daily basis too. Millions in poverty because those marauders stuffing up their stinking richness in Swiss banks can't afford to lose their golden opportunity of robbing their country.
Lit Bug wrote: "Mark, are you referring to the US or to Australia? I was talking about Australia, and saw only now that you live in the States."Ah, I understand your bafflement, then. As far as I know (and based on UN stats), things aren't even remotely comparably horrible in Australia.
I'm sure you see rampant predation in India, as well. The plutocratic class is multinational, and a few thousand people are essentially stealing all the wealth of the other seven billion on the planet, but the severity varies by country, which is why I adduced the "GINI Index." In the US, by the way, 100 individuals control more wealth than the bottom 200,000,000 of the population.
The distribution of wealth in Australia is fairly good, I think. Which is one of the main reasons the "We are the 99%" protests which happened here pissed me off so much.So many self-important, self-entitled jobless wankers aping an actually reasonable movement in America.
Lit Bug wrote: "I agree now to your application of the term - I was taking it too literally till now - and I see it occurring here in India on a daily basis too. Millions in poverty because those marauders stuffin..."The preferred tax refuge of American billionaires is the Cayman Islands. The poor who can barely survive pay taxes, but billionaires just... don't, nor do many corporations. In fact, they get gift subsidies back from the government. The oil companies are probably the most egregious example. But anyway, trillions just sit in these accounts, contributing nothing to the American economy, while it continues to obliterate the middle class and the country enters an economic death spiral. I guess Switzerland is geographically more convenient for Indian plutocrats.
Liam wrote: "Every option is as bad as the next, it's just that Abbott is worse.Gillard was fine, and it was nice having a South Aussie lady in charge. As far as I can tell she didn't really do anything."
I hope this is all a joke. However, I do agree with the comments about Keating haha. I wish I would be eligible to vote in this election, I miss out by a couple of months ugh.
Liam wrote: "The distribution of wealth in Australia is fairly good, I think. Which is one of the main reasons the "We are the 99%" protests which happened here pissed me off so much.So many self-important, s..."
^Agreed
I don't know where India stands with respect to the States, but am fairly confident it lags behind Aus. reasonably.
★ Jess wrote: "Liam wrote: "Every option is as bad as the next, it's just that Abbott is worse.Gillard was fine, and it was nice having a South Aussie lady in charge. As far as I can tell she didn't really do a..."
Not a joke, and going by your comments I'm glad you won't get to vote this time :P
Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "I agree now to your application of the term - I was taking it too literally till now - and I see it occurring here in India on a daily basis too. Millions in poverty because those m..."Yes, when demanded, Swiss banks refused to hand over data of their Indian clients on the grounds that it would "damage their interests". Switzerland, for some reason, is the most preferred - maybe we have a secret pact with the Swiss for the corrupt elites, who knows...
Well Swiss banks were heavily involved in funding Nazi Germany, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
Well, half of Europe backed the Nazis, and the US granted asylum to top Nazi officers. I'm not surprised by the modern injustices we face, only overwhelmed and sad.
Oh, everyone loved the Nazis until liebensraum became a thing and Hitler annexed the Sudetenland. Then people started to get a bit wary.
I am angered how the Discovery channel or Nat Geo channel repeats its documentaries on Hitler so often without mentioning even once that they and most of Europe were complicit in the genocide and that they shared a common guilt. It is made to seem that Hitler and Germans alone were to blame.
Ashleigh wrote: "This world can be so icky."I tend usually to say "fathomlessly evil," but you know, I think "icky" has an innocence combined with revulsion that perhaps captures it better. So I think I'll quote you. Well put.
Well, to be fair, although Europe had a rich vein of antisemitism for pretty much all of time, Hitler and his Germany were the only ones who actually went to the point of rounding them up and murdering them on mass.And you have to remember that the rest of Europe also were very concerned about what Hitler's Germany was capable of. When something like the Kristallnacht happened, nobody wanted to step in and tell them to settle down in case they turned around and just tore you to shreds.
Ashleigh wrote: "Historical accounts are often skewed towards what the doco makers or authors want though. You do get some that are not as biased but not in all history and often you need to dig for those. The prob..."You see, I distrust history. Standard history, at least. I take it with a pinch of salt, and never forget that what we are told is not only probably half-truths, but also possibly manipulated. I am skeptic, and always wary that I'm being subtly brainwashed in the name of objective facts.
Lit Bug wrote: "Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "I agree now to your application of the term - I was taking it too literally till now - and I see it occurring here in India on a daily basis too. Millions in poverty maybe we have a secret pact with the Swiss for the corrupt elites, who knows... ..."I think your inference is so logical as to be a virtual certainty. I don't doubt for an instant that such a pact exists and is, to the Swiss, utterly inviolate.
Well, maybe Liam is right, but then you cannot exclude that fact from your documentaries that you were pissed off but acted cowardly. You call it objective, then you need to keep it objective.I don't know how to link a quote so see this link and the first quote therein (by Doris Lessing) - this is what I do with all info I come across - http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/list/...
On the subject of the whole "history written by the winners" thing, I recently had an argument with an American about the old "You'd all be speaking German and eating sausage if it weren't for us". Apparently it's a pretty much accepted fact over there that Germany were going to win WW2 all the way up to when America booted in the door and came to the rescue.Because obviously the Red Army did nothing, despite the fact that after Germany declared war on the USSR, no less than 80% of their total fighting strength was tied up on the Eastern Front, pretty much for the rest of the war.
Allies on the Western Front had it easy.
Lit Bug wrote: "Ashleigh wrote: "Historical accounts are often skewed towards what the doco makers or authors want though. You do get some that are not as biased but not in all history and often you need to dig fo..."If you assume that you're being relentlessly subjected to all manner of brainwashing, explicit, subliminal and of even more insidious varieties, then you're probably one of the few people on the planet who hasn't much succumbed to the effect. Do keep distrusting!
Mark wrote: "Lit Bug wrote: "Ashleigh wrote: "Historical accounts are often skewed towards what the doco makers or authors want though. You do get some that are not as biased but not in all history and often yo...":D That's the only way I can stay sane - we see the shortsightedness of our predecessors so easily, but not our own. I distrust, therefore I am.
Liam wrote: "On the subject of the whole "history written by the winners" thing, I recently had an argument with an American about the old "You'd all be speaking German and eating sausage if it weren't for us"...."Don't try arguing actual facts with my concitoyens. This is not a society amenable to reason or remotely prepared to accept irrefutable facts. You can't even get elected to office (at least, as a Republican), unless you swear that you reject evolution, deny global warming, and think the world is 6,000 years old. The last round of candidates actually had to take that pledge on stage. We are not only depthlessly ignorant, but belligerent about the rightness and importance of being ignorant.
★ Jess wrote: ""
Excellent, Jess. This is exactly what Kev is doing....
Lit Bug wrote: "I am angered how the Discovery channel or Nat Geo channel repeats its documentaries on Hitler so often without mentioning even once that they and most of Europe were complicit in the genocide and t..."Oh, so with you there, Lit Bug. Unbelievable how they (most of Europe) just decided to 'ignore' one of the most manifestations of evil and cruelty; the systematic eradication of a race.
And this is a fact that is most often NEVER mentioned.
Liam wrote: "On the subject of the whole "history written by the winners" thing, I recently had an argument with an American about the old "You'd all be speaking German and eating sausage if it weren't for us"...."Also was an accepted fact with the pre Baby Boomers generation in Australia. They saw the Americans as only heroes. With Robert Menzies wanting to pull back to the 'Brisbane line', they believed that had the Americans not stepped in, we would have lost a significant portion of Australia to the Japanese.
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