Young Adult Fiction for Adults discussion
What character(s) are you infatuated with?
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Roshini
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Sep 29, 2010 07:03PM
Cassi, the sugar analogy was spot on!
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Brittany wrote: "I know I'm late coming into this conversation, but whoever compared Twilight and sugar and crack I definitely agree with. Kuddos to you for putting it into words. Because try as I might, I can't ..."I think what draws you in Brittany is the same thing that draws me in. There is HUGE potential in her stories. HUGE! But then they miss something somewhere along the line and epically fail in one way or another. It's the potential and the "maybe she'll redeem herself this time" drama that draws me into reading her books.
I loved Twilight but did not like the Host at all and Bree Tanner was pretty much boring. I can't say what it was about Twilight, I didn't even know it was popular at the time (2007)and didn't know anyone who had read it other than my family. I guess you could say it was untainted when I read it. I had not even read a review. I loved it and am very glad I read them under those circumstances. I had no interest in ripping it apart or analyzing it - just enjoyed it. My son said back then when I told him I was surprised he liked the books, "Well, I am not in love with Edward like my mother, my wife, and my daughter, but it is a very good story."
I'm shocked this group went off-topic, lol (all sarcasm implied). On that note, I heartily agree with the sugar high and fictional crack comparisons to Twilight. That was the experience I had. I can't hate on the series though because it was my gateway drug into the world of reading.
Becca wrote: I think what draws you in Brittany is the same thing that draws me in. There is HUGE potential in her stories...."That's what kills me about her books! The end of book 4?! what was the point of setting all that up if everyone just gives up and walks away?! but the potential for an epic story is definitely there. she just needs more plot to go with the romance.
Brittany wrote: "Becca wrote: I think what draws you in Brittany is the same thing that draws me in. There is HUGE potential in her stories...."
That's what kills me about her books! The end of book 4?! what was t..."
I agree. I hated the whole Renesmee thing, so when it looked like it was gonna be a big slaughter at the end i ended up dissapointed, cuz the action and excitement of the book lasted just a few pages..
That's what kills me about her books! The end of book 4?! what was t..."
I agree. I hated the whole Renesmee thing, so when it looked like it was gonna be a big slaughter at the end i ended up dissapointed, cuz the action and excitement of the book lasted just a few pages..
I read that it was her publisher who did not want the violence of a battle. Which is rather ridiculous considering the violence of the birth.
She sure lets her publisher push her around a lot. That isn't the first thing I've heard about changes that came about in the Twi series because the publisher wanted something.
....and people complained that I go off-topic :P
Peep wrote: "....and people complained that I go off-topic :P"
Nah, noone never complain at you for that peep ;P
Nah, noone never complain at you for that peep ;P
...and if they did, it was completely unfounded, right?
Peep wrote: "....and people complained that I go off-topic :P"Peep wrote: "...and if they did, it was completely unfounded, right?"
Hey it wasn't me this time!
Nay! Twas the see ye planted!
How about Jace in City of Glass He would be on my list. Along with Ranger from the Stephanie Plum series, Yes Edward is on my list too. And Jericho Barrons from the Fever series.
New ones... Daniel from Fallen by Lauren Kate & Jem & especially Will from Clockwork Angel by Cassandra Clare.
Cassi wrote: "The twilight series is a bit like a sugar high. You may like it at first but afterwards you kinda get a headache and you consumed a lot of empty calories. I didn't really have a problem until I s..."I totally agreed. Actually I wrote a similar review long ago. Here it is.
Twilight is the story of the seemingly impossible love between an every day girl and a gorgeous mysterious stranger, who happens to be a 108 years old vampire. Although hardly an original premise, the huge success of this series shows how appealing the idea of forbidden love is, especially for young girls.
I must confess I was just as caught up as everybody else while reading it. Yet overall I found it deeply unsatisfying. Twilight glorifies a kind of romantic love that is not only unrealistic but sets the stage for abuse.
Literary speaking, Twilight is like a huge marshmallow: fluffy and sweet and addictive, yet hardly nutritious and, eaten in excess, bad for you.
I didn't like Shiver either.
As for my favorite male characters, Mr. Darcy, of course and Angel from Buffy, the Vampire Slayer are top on my list. The jinn in As You Wish is cute too.
And of course I love Julian from my YA Two Moon Princess
I've heard constant complaints about Bella being weak. I agree that she is obsessive and melodramatic. I also feel that her relationship with Edward is completely unhealthy. But could someone please explain to me how Bella is "weak"???
She lets Edward be controlling because he's good looking. "Okay you took the motor out of my car" type attitude. I mean in the first 3 books (the ones I've read)when does she actually show strength of character that is not initialized by someone else?I think the reason people (myself included) call her weak is that she bases so much of her life around the boys rather than standing on her own.
I agree that Edward is controlling (unhealthy) but she allows it because she loves him. Or at least is obsessed with him. She did hop on a plane to Italy when she thought he was in trouble. I admit to having problems with Bella, but I think my definition of "weak" is different from many others. As to basing her life around boys, it was just one boy and something that is true to life with teenage girls. Again, not saying it's healthy, just something we've all been through.
Actually no it isn't something all of us have been through. There are some girls that don't base their lives around boys, ever. Boys are a nice cherry on top of a really great life full of hobbies, accomplishments, friends, family, fun, goals...I could go on. These kind of girls are unfortunately few and far between, but they are there and they are or were teenagers at one point with all the raging hormones, but still were able to be a person on their own two feet without being obsessive over a boy. Those are the strong women, the kind of woman I want my sisters and daughters to be. Then on the opposite end, there's Bella. The kind of girl that isn't even a person without her boy. Bella was at her absolute weakest in book 2. How can you say she isn't weak when she lost at least nine months of her life mooning after a boy that had dumped her? That isn't healthy and it isn't strong. Then, top it off with her risking her life over and over so she can feel alive again. She isn't alive on her own, she is only alive with her boy attached to her hip. It's sick and wrong and I hate that girls look up to that kind of example. It makes me angry that someone like that could be so popular in teen fiction. She is awful! I hate her! And I honestly hate Edward too.
*stepping of soap box* *again*
ReeCee wrote: "I've heard constant complaints about Bella being weak. I agree that she is obsessive and melodramatic. I also feel that her relationship with Edward is completely unhealthy. But could someone pleas..."She is willing to give up her life (literally) at the tender age of 17 to be with a man.
Compare Anne from Anne Of Green Gables to Bella. I consider Anne to be one of the strongest female characters in YA fiction.
All valid points, ladies... Thank you all. I do feel that Bella is more mentally unstable than weak. And by something that we've all been through, I meant obesessing over a relationship or having a really huge crush on someone. Obviously what Bella did is outside of normal human behaviour, and everyone could see it but her. Textbook mental issues.
ReeCee wrote: "All valid points, ladies... Thank you all. I do feel that Bella is more mentally unstable than weak. And by something that we've all been through, I meant obesessing over a relationship or having a..."She is just one of those polarizing people. You either love her or hate her, but hey at least we are talking about her! That's what publishers love.
Well I love Bella and I love Edward and I think they make a cute couple and every time someone on here talks bad about them it makes me sad. Seriously, she's done something good since people can't stop talking about the books... even though I want them to :P
It's too bad that the rabid fangirls ruined the series. Twilight wasn't the "best" PNR out there, but the story was a cute and entertaining one, hidden among bad writing (hey, SM is no literary genius).People are way too hard on it. Popularity will often do that though.
I know that Heidi doesn't like Mortal Instruments and feels like that was the bandwagon that everyone jumped to after Twilight, but I found the writing style between Meyer and Clare to be completely different (1st person repetitive vs 3rd person multiple viewpoint/overly descriptive). I know that City of Bones is a bit hard to get through, but the series overall is very good, and I hope that someday she gives it another chance. There is a lot more depth/mystery/case cracking in this series than in Twilight. Plus, Clockwork Angel was all kinds of fun Victorian & Steampunk goodness.
I haven't read Clare yet. I think it's because I read her fanfiction back in the day and can't remember if she ever finished it (or if was taken offline before I finished reading it). Plus she was a bit longwinded in fanfiction.
I ended up reading her books by chance and formed an opinion before hearing about the whole fanfiction fiasco.City of Bones didn't really grab me either at first. It was the weakest of her books, and I only decided to read past it when I was closer to the end of the book. Each book after that got progressively better. City of Glass was quite good, and Clockwork Angel was a great starter book for the new series (although I couldn't imagine reading it without having read MI first, since there are parts of it that reference MI ).
"fanfiction fiasco" lol.I've learned to never read unfinished fanfiction. If it's not 100% online I avoid it now. (Actually I haven't read fanfiction in a long while, ppl still occasionally stumble upon mine)
To get on my soapbox...
I have never understood the whole Bella is a bad role model and Edward is abusive thing. Edward and Bella are fictional characters. Not real. Edward and Bella were supposed to be made for each other, destined to be together, not able to survive without each other...once again, fictional. Vampires and werewolves (FICTIONAL) are such mortal enemies that Edward cannot believe that Bella will be safe anywhere near one, hence the overprotectiveness.
These kinds of books are supposed to be fun fantasy, not reality. All the teenage girls in my life who have read them take it for it is...a book. Some are Team Jacob, some are Team Edward. That's part of the fun of this series. None of them look up to Bella and they don't expect a boy in a shiny Volvo to sweep them off their feet.
I have never understood the whole Bella is a bad role model and Edward is abusive thing. Edward and Bella are fictional characters. Not real. Edward and Bella were supposed to be made for each other, destined to be together, not able to survive without each other...once again, fictional. Vampires and werewolves (FICTIONAL) are such mortal enemies that Edward cannot believe that Bella will be safe anywhere near one, hence the overprotectiveness.
These kinds of books are supposed to be fun fantasy, not reality. All the teenage girls in my life who have read them take it for it is...a book. Some are Team Jacob, some are Team Edward. That's part of the fun of this series. None of them look up to Bella and they don't expect a boy in a shiny Volvo to sweep them off their feet.
This what I meant by polarizing people! hee hee p.s. Cassi, Clare is long winded like Meyer, I'm just not into that writing style as I read every word and overanalyze things (my own issue, I know). I am not really willing to bash the entire mortal instruments series though because I have not read it all and that is not fair.
I have read the entire Twilight series, so I at least feel I can have an opinion, (albeit a strong one), to that series. In the end, I still say to each their own and I am just glad Twilight brought out so many new and returning readers. To be honest I just like to get Shannen going every once in awhile! I am harmless really :)
Meyer's issue is that she is repetitive and uses the same words far too often. When writing in first person, you have to be able to work around not using the word "I" more than a couple of times in a paragraph.She does have a great imagination and ability to tell a story though.
I know several people didn't like The Host by Meyer (Terry being one of them), but after you get past the first 1/3 of the book (I call it the WTF? part), the story kicks into gear and is actually pretty interesting. If she ever decided to work on tightening up her writing, she could take herself to a completely different level.
It's surprising to me that publishing companies don't consider hiring editors to condense or rework stories that get a bit too repetitive or long winded.
Heidi,I like Clare's sarcastic humor. Snarkiness speaks to me for some reason.
Here are some examples (spoiler alert if someone is reading the series) :
"Look, Simon, Luke thinks you should tell your mom. You can't hide it from her forever."
"I can damn well try."
"Think about Luke," she said desperately. "You can still live a normal life."
"And what about us? Do you want a vampire boyfriend?" He laughed bitterly. "Because I foresee many romantic picnics in our future. You, drinking a virgin pina colada. Me, drinking the blood of a virgin."
— Cassandra Clare (City of Ashes)
"Not everything is about you," Clary said furiously.
"Possibly," Jace said, "but you do have to admit that the majority of things are."
— Cassandra Clare
"Don't." Clary raised a warning hand. "I'm not really in the mood right now."
That's got to be the first time a girl's ever said that to me," Jace mused"
— Cassandra Clare (City of Bones)
"You said you were going for a walk!? What kind of walk takes six hours?"
"A long one?"
— Cassandra Clare
"Clary- "How to Come Out to Your Parents," she read out loud. "LUKE. Don't be ridiculous. Simon's not gay, he's a vampire."
— Cassandra Clare (City of Ashes)
"Have you tried talking to her?"
"No. We've been punching her in the face repeatedly. What? You don't think that will work?"
— Cassandra Clare (City of Glass)
Heidi - I know you love to tease me about Twilight and you had nothing to do with my soapbox moment. But to respond to one of your points, how can you even compare Anne to Bella? Anne seems so real and her story CAN happen -- Bella's story not so much. ;)
Hopefully it wasn't something I said. I actually defended Bella in the other thread. She didn't act that "out there" for being 17. Not every girl that age is dependent or attached to a guy, but it's not this rare occurence either.She is a bit angsty and I wouldn't be able to handle that same character type in every book I read, but it really didn't bother me in Twilight the way that it did other people. Maybe in a way I did see a little bit of myself (at that age, anyway) in her. Sure, I would have rather been the Katsa, Katniss or Yelena type as a teen, but realistically, I didn't know anyone like that!
Stacia - No worries. :) And you didn't know anyone like Katsa, Katniss or Yelena because they are fictional. LOL!
Cassi wrote: ""fanfiction fiasco" lol.I've learned to never read unfinished fanfiction. If it's not 100% online I avoid it now. (Actually I haven't read fanfiction in a long while, ppl still occasionally s..."
What kind of fanfiction did she write?
Harry Potter iirc (don't quote me, I don't remember and could be wrong). There were accusations of her copying too much or something. It's been a while since I read about it.
Good lord, that whole above post was a hot mess. Thank goodness for editing.
Harry Potter. Was it called Draco Veritas?Fire & Ice mostly if I remember properly (aka Ginny/Draco for those not initiated in HP fanfiction). I enjoyed fanfiction at the peak of the HP craze. There was some decent stuff (and some horrid stuff out there). Its weird cause occasionally I'll get an email when someone stumbles upon my old fanfic and they favorite it.
People, young girls, still parallel their lives to 'fictional' characters. To read the books and enjoy them is one thing, but to read them and rationalize them as okay is another. I could enjoy the fiction but recognize that Bella is a very poor feminine role model. And perhaps the vampires are fiction, but the ideal that life is only worth living for a certain boy is not fiction. The belief that you should be willing to give up your own identity to be 'worthy' of him is a reality that young girls face. So in that sense Anne to Bella is a great comparison.
In addition, there are different ways of being weak. Sure Bella could be brave when it came to saving Edward (multiple times) but she couldn't be brave for herself. Her collapse in the beginning of New Moon is the perfect example of that. Edward leaves her and she goes practically catatonic. I absolutely don't want my daughter emulating this or thinking it is romantic.
It's like, my coworker mentioned how her niece was listening to Eminem (I personally like him, but I'm old enough to not take it so seriously), and the lyric 'If she ever tries to leave again I'ma tie to the bed and set this house on fire.' She said she was horrified when her niece said "I hope someday someone loves me like that..."
There are very impressionable girls out there.
Again, they were fictional crack. I loved them, but when I was done I couldn't stop thinking about how terrible they were really.
I work with kids and have a teenage sister. You have no idea how many times I've heard them say that Edward is the perfect man. When I mention that he's controlling they think its okay because he loves her. "Love" is an abusers best weapon.My sister has so much attitude & listens to nobody so I'm not really worried about her. If anyones doing the controlling I expect it to be her. However there are a lot of people who aren't as independent.
A story doesn't even have to have any real people or elements in it for the people reading it to want to emulate it. I grew up wanting to emulate my favorite heroines (most of which were in fantasy fiction and obviously not real facing unreal situations) and I talk to girls weekly wanting to do the same thing. When you want to emulate someone, they're a role model. Unfortunately, I've heard from a lot of girls who want to emulate Bella and her relationship with Edward. It doesn't matter to them that they'll never have a vampire, they want the "love" Edward and Bella have. It sickens me.In my defense I hated Twilight before it became popular although I love the idea behind it. I think it was a brilliant storyline, but poorly done.
Poorly done, ending with the horrible pukefest that was Breaking Dawn. It was soooo disappointing, I had hopes.
Wow Wendy...I think you're my new best friend :)
Friends don't let friends puke?
Young Adult Fiction for Adults
Books mentioned in this topic
Hush, Hush (other topics)Twilight (other topics)
Amy & Roger's Epic Detour (other topics)
Clockwork Angel (other topics)
Hotel Paradise (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Cassandra Clare (other topics)Sarah Dessen (other topics)
Cassandra Clare (other topics)
Lauren Kate (other topics)
Kim Harrison (other topics)
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