A Court of Thorns and Roses
discussion
What do we think about the ending with Rhysand? [Spoilers]
Do you think Rhysand will have issues with touching and sex? Because being a sex slave for half a century definitely leaves scars. I think we're all hoping for him and Feyre to hook up next book, but do you think it will be that easy?I think we have to keep in mind that Rhysand is hundreds of years old, and thus might not be quite as affected by certain things. I do think those 50 years will have affected him, but I think it only adds to the hundreds of years of things he's had to do for his court--not just the physical stuff. But maybe he will be able to recover from it better than someone who hasn't lived hundreds of years.
Having said that, I do think he'd be reluctant to get close to Feyre if he starts developing true feelings for her. I think he likes to flirt and mess with her, but if he starts to feel something real, he might withdraw himself, as he seems likely to be the type to keep his true feelings hidden. As seen with Tamlin, when you love someone, that love can be used against you.
Though that probably feeds into the whole societal ideal we have that women should be young; and wrinkle-free and beautiful
Also, it's worth noting that when the immortal is the man, he always looks as young as the female. I wonder if people would be more opposed to 100+ year old man with young girl if the man actually looked his age. :P
While I'm all for Feyre and Rhysand becoming a couple in the next book there's too much emotional turmoil and mental turmoil that they have each endured and I believe it will be more about dealing with it and coming to terms with it.
I agree. I think they'll go through a lot of emotional and mental development before anything physical/romantic happens. They share that connection, and I think that will be the building block of their relationship.
The whole Great Rite thing. When reading, I assumed it was the case that all the high lords perform the Great Rite Once a year in their own court, but that it's at different times in the year. Like Fire Night in the Spring court was right at the start of spring. Maybe in the Night court it takes place on the longest night of the year? I also thought that every Great Rite was different, that different courts do a different sort of ceremony. It makes sense that Spring would be about mating because Spring is the time when many animals mate and have babies. When it comes to Tamlin being a coward, I do think Rhys views him as a coward, not because he was sending men out to die, but because he wasn't. All the other courts were victims of Amarantha, and Tamlin was the only one who had a chance to save them, his own court included since Amarantha would also control them when the 50 years was over. And yet Tamlin couldn't bear sending his men out to die, so he gave up really, because he was too soft. I don't think Rhys would have given up, and that's why he views Tamlin as a coward.
I totally think Rhys will probably have issues with sex. I don't think it matters how old you are, if you're imprisoned as a slave and raped for 50 years it's going to have an effect on you. I can't see him being ready to jump into bed with anyone any time soon, he seems to have a problem with people touching him in general. I think the only way we could say he'd recover faster because of his age would be if he'd experienced rape before in the past, and so knew better how to deal with it. Age is just experience, how could he deal with something 'better' than someone else unless he'd experienced it already?
I don't think Rhys would have given up, and that's why he views Tamlin as a cowardI agree with that. I think Rhys would do almost anything for his court, as demonstrated. I think it made Rhys angry that Tamlin wouldn't send more people out while he and the other high lord's were suffering under the mountain.
Sheechiibii wrote: "...When it comes to Tamlin being a coward, I do think Rhys views him as a coward, not because he was sending men out to die, but because he wasn't..."I recall Tamlin sent his men before, and it didn't work, so he stopped doing that, sending them to die despite their willingness in doing so.
I suppose Rhys expected more from Tamlin, as the last court who fought the queen, but as he viewed Tamlin as a coward, he was not in a better condition at all, for Rhys was the queen's sex slave, a 'job' he chose in order to stay alive. Tamlin did what he thought best for his court. As much as most of his power was taken by the queen, he was still fighting her. Both Rhys and Tamlin are no cowards. It was their choices that made them think differently towards each other.
I want to have a nasty Tamlin next. He has been acting nice, while his nature is not supposed to be that way. He is a high lord and loves fighting in a war.
I love Rhys too. I think mostly because of his dark nature and being so sexily attractive. He is nasty, as a fae should be.
I wonder about why Rhys ran away from Feyre. I hate the idea of 'knowing Feyre to be his mate' because if feels like imprinted sort. I want him to fight for Feyre because he wants her, not by default.
Maybe Feyre is pregnant? It is always a rare case for fairies and more of it, a human turn a fae's being pregnant?
@ NurlelyI don't think that Feyre is pregnant. Wouldn't Tamlin smell it on her and when would she got herself pregnant?
Laura wrote: "Also, that's not even close to something that would get Rhysand to be shocked and run away. Why would he drop his facade and have that reaction? He wouldn't even care. It was something to do with h..."I think he did mate with her, and I think it only happens between Fae, since he never reacted that way towards Feyre until she was a Fae.
Maybe in the Night court it takes place on the longest night of the year? Oh, nice theory !
It makes sense that Spring would be about mating because Spring is the time when many animals mate and have babies.
Good catch. I wonder what would it be for the Night Court ? What ritual is specific to the night ? There are obviously stars and I'm pretty the great rite is bind to them. I'm actually picturing something like the gathering of the Na'avis in Avatar the movie when they were prying.
I want him to fight for Feyre because he wants her, not by default.
I don't know if I will consider the mating bond as a default. Tamlin said that it like a gift for fearies to have these sacred bond between two people. Ahh, but I'm strong believer in Feyre and Rhys's relationship and I'm sure they are going to fight for each other.
Something that would get Rhysand to be shocked and run away
Honestly, I don't know anymore what to think about this. Any theories can be possible
Nurlely wrote: "I suppose Rhys expected more from Tamlin, as the last court who fought the queen, but as he viewed Tamlin as a coward, he was not in a better condition at all, for Rhys was the queen's sex slave, a 'job' he chose in order to stay alive..."I don't think you could say Rhys chose that. He and the other high lords were poisoned by Amarantha, and that poison stripped them of their power, giving it to her, and on top of that left them unable to refuse her orders. It wasn't a choice that they made, it was something they were forced to do because they'd all made the mistake of trusting her. Tamlin was the only one left who had any chance to save not only his own court that was in danger once the 50 years were up, but the rest of the courts and the people who were all suffering under the mountain already.
Yes Tamlin sent men out to die, but he stopped because he couldn't bear it. To Rhys and all the others who were trapped under the mountain, Tamlin was their only hope, and he stopped trying. I don't blame Rhys for holding a bit of a grudge. To be honest Rhys being a dick to Tamlin makes complete sense in retrospect when I think about all that he was suffering while Tamlin sat in his free court and did nothing to try and help.
Mirou wrote: "I wonder what would it be for the Night Court ? What ritual is specific to the night ? There are obviously stars and I'm pretty the great rite is bind to them. I'm actually picturing something like the gathering of the Na'avis in Avatar the movie when they were prying..."
Oh my gosh, I pictured something like this as well! I was thinking perhaps it would have something to do with the stars? Or perhaps the moon? I do imagine it to be a really really dark night and something, be it stars or bioluminescent plants and I can imagine a reflection on water too. I'm sure it'll be really beautiful but I expect there to be some sort of fear attached to it because of the darkness of night always being associated with when monsters come out.
I agree. Sending his men out is a horrible predicament, but that's an individual burden he HAD to bear if he had any hopes of freeing his court and all the others. Especially since he wasn't forcing his men--they were choosing to go voluntarily. For him to stop trying almost seems selfish when you consider the alternative.(Selfishness is an understandable flaw, but I feel like Tamlin is presented as this near perfect being in the books and nothing he does is seen as selfish. Flaws are great--they're not great when they're not called out or acknowledged.)
@Sheechiibii That is an excellent point! Honestly, when I read the book it was of no surprise that there was some contempt between Tamlin and Rhysand. While I do think there is more to their relationship then we've been privvy to, it does make sense that Rhys would be upset with Tamlin. Rhys didn't choose to become Amarantha's sex slave. Most of the courts had their hands forced. Tamlin being the focus of this curse especially since he continually refused Amarantha was given freedom that the others didn't even have. @Mirou I've wondered the same thing! I so hope we'll be able to see what that court specific ritual may be. EEK!
@WinterRose You know the more I've thought about this and about the book and Tamlin in general I can't help but realize how selfish he has been. Beyond just that I also think there's certainly more going on behind all of that. Selfishness is one thing; but I feel like Tamlin is certainly witholding some stuff from Feyre. I worry that perhaps he doesn't feel the same way about her and that she has been nothing more then an end to the means.
Alex wrote: "I think that since all 7 lords gave her life - that she is going to have all 7 powers - and that is maybe what he realized when he looked at her. I also think he took Amarantha's ring and bone fing..."Yeah that makes so much sense! Why focus so much attention on the love between Feyre and Tamlin, then forget about all that? She would totally upset fans if that was the case.
WinterRose wrote: "Gah. Found some stuff during a re-read of a scene.1. Rhysand IS involved in the Great Rite somehow. I finally found the quote.
"We do this by conducting the Great Rite. Each of the seven High Lo..."
You really hit the nail on the head. I really hope your predictions come true in the next book. I don't hate Tamlin but I hope he isn't going to end up with Feyre in the end.
I think it means more awesome Sarah J. Maas books:)
Laura wrote: "About Tamlin and Feyre's relationship, I might have found something that already causes trouble between them. Her family.There is a scene in the book in which they discuss whether Feyre's family ..."
I also feel like Tamlin will have jealousy issues. When Lucien went on a hunting trip with Feyre after she first came to Prythian it seemed like he was jealous. He was brooding and seemed very disgruntled with talking about what they did for the day. If he was that upset about Feyre spending time with Lucien instead of him (despite Lucien's obvious dislike of Feyre at the beginning) I can only imagine how ape shit he'll be about her spending a week each month at the night court.
Obviously a little twilight thing happened and Rhysand imprinted on feyre. Despite how interesting it would be to see a sparking between the two, I still root for Tamlin. I believe Tamlin is end game if I'm being honest, haha. Unlike with 'Throne of Glass', I know where to draw the line between the ships in 'A Court of Thorns and Roses'. I thought Tamlin and Feyre had the cutest 'falling in love' story ever. So it's kind of hard for me to suddenly switch from this amazing ship that goes on for basically the whole book, for an agreement, to a moment of fleeting liking and an imprint from Rhysand.
I mean I like him...and I understand that he was just trying to help Feyre and all, but I felt physically sick reading what he was making her do. I just felt somewhat
embarrassed for her. What he made her wear? I just couldn't even...
Some of you may disagree with me, but that's honestly how I feel about this whole Rhysand/Tamlin situation.
I do have a few worries of my own and from reading all your thoughts. Tamlin fell in love with feyre and her, I guess humaness? Her reactions and all. What if it won't be the same now that she's fae. Which um, kind of pissed me off when she became fae, I don't know, I just liked her being this human warrior of one of kind. Oh well, now the whole immortality with Tamlin thing is solved. He said he's had quite a few lovers? Will he get sick of her? Will she get sick of him? Who knows... I am excited to see what happens at the night court!
Finally some people who love Rhys as much as I do!!!!! Tamlin was cool but their romance was just too fast. I don't like that Maas does that. And I really hated that as Feyre's struggling with the fact that she just killed two innocent people (seriously! She didn't even consider not killing them!) she's like well let's think about that later and have sex. Their "later" became like hazel and Augustus' "okay" and I just was not into that. I like rhysand so much better. But personally I thought when I read that scene where he stumbles and just disappears weirdly, I thought she just THINKS he's looking at her face but really something is going wrong with him because the way he disappears is different than usual? But I like you alls theory better that he sees his power or imprint or something. I could also be mildly ok with if nesta is the one who ends up with rhysand.
Alexis wrote: "Finally some people who love Rhys as much as I do!!!!! Tamlin was cool but their romance was just too fast. I don't like that Maas does that. And I really hated that as Feyre's struggling with the ..."I thought the whole PTSD, having sex, bit was pretty spot on for her character and for how many cope/ delay coping with their problems. Feyre did the same thing with Isaac back in their village. She didn't love him but wanted to lose herself for a few hours. It was a way from not having to deal with the daily problem of surviving. She couldn't handle her guilt after becoming a high fae and wanted to lose herself for a few hours instead of reflecting on her actions and learning to live with them.
I think Tam is evil and he just used her to break the curse
I think Tam is evil and he just used her to break the curse
I also considered that maybe Rhysand saw Feyre's wings? Based on the pinterest images, I think Feyre will have wings like Rhys. Several times in the books, Feyre "swears she sees the shadow of wings" behind him. Rhys made it seem like no one really knows about his wings, but if Feyre noticed the shadow of his wings, wouldn't the other characters?
Maybe even as a human she associated herself toward the night court without even realizing it. (Hence the stars painted on her door) So she was more perceptive to his glamour/illusions.
I personally don't think Feyre will have the abilities from ALL the different courts, but maybe she'll have the abilities from one - the night court. And that's what Rhys saw. I'm not sure that would shock him THAT much, but maybe it did.
WinterRose wrote: "I also considered that maybe Rhysand saw Feyre's wings? Based on the pinterest images, I think Feyre will have wings like Rhys. Several times in the books, Feyre "swears she sees the shadow of wi..."
I had seen those pictures on her pinterest but completely forgot! That could definitely be something. I just wish there had been some comment from someone other than Rhys (like Tamlin) to give some indication whether the shocking thing was romantic in nature or not.
Laura wrote: "Kristin wrote: "Alexis wrote: "Finally some people who love Rhys as much as I do!!!!! Tamlin was cool but their romance was just too fast. I don't like that Maas does that. And I really hated that ..."I hadn't thought of that but that would be terrible for Rhys!
I don't know what this meanshttps://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
I have 2 theories about that.
1. Rhys saved Feyre's life when she was a baby.
2. Maybe Feyre has a child with Rhys, but the King of Hybern tries to steal the baby and Rhys saves his child from the King's monsters
Melanie wrote: "I don't know what this meanshttps://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
I have 2 theories about that.
1. Rhys saved Feyre's life when she was a baby.
2. Maybe Feyre has a child with Rhys,..."
I didn't get it either, maybe it's Rhys when he was a baby
To tell the truth, I never thought of the ending as a "Door to Love Triangle". I thought that Rhysand saw something else and vanished. But, I believe that he does have an interesting history.
King Cobra wrote: "To tell the truth, I never thought of the ending as a "Door to Love Triangle". I thought that Rhysand saw something else and vanished. But, I believe that he does have an interesting history."You would think that if it was something so terrible to make him lose his cool that he would have stuck around long enough to say something. I just felt like there was so many little intimate moments with him and Feyre when they were under the mountain. One example is when he comes to her cell and complains about Amarantha. She asks why he's there and he says "I'm tired and lonely and you're the only person I can talk to without putting myself at risk." In the same scene just before he leaves she says 'When you healed my arm... You didn't need to bargain with me. You could have demanded every single week of the year."... "Every single week, and I would have said yes." He half smiles and says "I know." I just feel like with that last interaction especially that they have something there. What Feyre says is true. He really didn't need to bargain. He could have said take it or leave it but he chose to give something to her.
My point in all this being that I don't think Rhys would be the type to leave Feyre in danger especially at the point in their relationship at the end of the book. If it was Feyre herself that freaked him out you would think that he would say something to everyone else since she's obviously no aware of what it is and neither is anyone else. I would think that after Amarantha you would want to nip any other major problems in the bud.
Kristin wrote: "King Cobra wrote: "To tell the truth, I never thought of the ending as a "Door to Love Triangle". I thought that Rhysand saw something else and vanished. But, I believe that he does have an interes..."And this scene sold me to this ship. At first I despised Rhysand with what he made Feyre do. But thinking about all of their situations, I can't help but root for them. I wish I liked Tamlin more, but I don't and Rhysand and Feyre seem to have a stronger bond than she could ever share with Tamlin.
Mary wrote: "Kristin wrote: "King Cobra wrote: "To tell the truth, I never thought of the ending as a "Door to Love Triangle". I thought that Rhysand saw something else and vanished. But, I believe that he does..."Lol, I agree with a lot of this. But I think that Rhysand and Feyre have a relationship that is completely strong and deep, but something different than just lovers. He and her would make killer partners, and friends, and I would love to see their relationship continue in that manner, with the teasing and taunting and such forth. If they got all gushy and lovey that would just ruin it, lol. I think Rhysand deserves someone more than just Feyre. I would definitely judge Feyre's character if she deserted Tamlin after all this. Those two are pretty much set in stone. But I'd definitely like to see Rhysand's story, and love life develop.
Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "Tamlin no offense was so bland. Rhysand however is a delight in a wicked way.Ive seen on tumblr people think that Rhys sensed they were true mates and something to do with Tamlin and Feyre and Rh..."
I was super annoyed that she became high fae too. Ugh!! And maybe there will be a love triangle. Or maybe not. She does have two other sisters and there's still Lucien and Rhys who haven't found "true love"
...and there's a lot of faerie tales to go around
.....This is me hoping it isn't a love triangle.
Laura wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kristin wrote: "King Cobra wrote: "To tell the truth, I never thought of the ending as a "Door to Love Triangle". I thought that Rhysand saw something else and vanished. But, I believe..."EXACTLY!!! Except I found Tamlin extremeely dull after the first few days she spent in his manor. I was soooooo bored. The Fire Night came and Rhysand had me hooked right away. I doubted over and over why I should root for him and the trials sealed the deal. I want to know more about Rhysand and I won't lie-if he were real, I'd definitely be going after him. lol
Lara wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kristin wrote: "King Cobra wrote: "To tell the truth, I never thought of the ending as a "Door to Love Triangle". I thought that Rhysand saw something else and vanished. But, I believe..."Yeah, it would be weird seeing a "cute" romance between them. I want it to be meaningful. With Tamlin, I felt nothing but lust on her part, and urgency to break the curse on his end. I never felt that they really "loved" each other. Which sucks, considering that's what saved everyone lol. Rhysand definitely interested me and I felt a much stronger bond between he and Feyre and their interactions took up less than half of the book lol.
I actually Feyre becoming high fae. I'm tired of stories with the main character needing to be protected by the other characters. I would rather Feyre have her own set of powers as a fae than constantly needing protection from Tamlin, Lucien, etc.
@Gabrielle, I was thinking the same thing too about her going back to the human relm. It was kind of hinted that she will have to, but maybe she became fae in order to stop the other king from conquering the world.@Kritin and Laura
I'm always up for strong female characters, but I'm sorry. Feyre just came off as insecure, trouble-seeking (often for no reason) and really inconsistent to me.
Esther wrote: "@Gabrielle, I was thinking the same thing too about her going back to the human relm. It was kind of hinted that she will have to, but maybe she became fae in order to stop the other king from conq..."I totally agree that Feyre is way too insecure. Everyone has insecurities but she had such an inferiority complex when it came to the high fae. Even reading by herself she felt insecure.
Josa wrote: "Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "I dont believe in Tamlin and Feyre love though, it didn't seem right to me. I hope she leaves him." YAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS I LOVE RHYS"
Yes!!!!Rhys ship sails!!!!!
Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "Esther wrote: "Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "Tamlin no offense was so bland. Rhysand however is a delight in a wicked way.Ive seen on tumblr people think that Rhys sensed they were true mates..."
I don't know, I was okay with the end because think about it, RJM resolved the problem of immortality.
If Feyre was going to end up with a high fae, which is obvious given the storyline, she would have been human and since I read too much YA books, this problem of love between immortal and mortal is kind of overwhelming.
For that, I think she did a great job.
And yep, the whole thing about her and sisters ending up with high faes may be cheesy but I can't help myself. I would love that something happens between Nesta and Lucien. I love both of them.
And I pretty sure this quote is not a coincidence :
" [...] Frowning at the violets and roses I'd painted aroud the knobs of Elain's drawer, the crackling flames I'd painted around Nesta's, and the nighty sky - whorls of yello stars standing in for white - around mine." P.15
Last point, It's so good to see so many of you supporting Rhys! About the bargain, huh, guys, I don't know what to think about it but I think Rhys is hidding big secrets and I feel like he already knows what's going to happen in the futur. So frustrating!
Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "Esther wrote: "@Gabrielle, I was thinking the same thing too about her going back to the human relm. It was kind of hinted that she will have to, but maybe she became fae in order to stop the other..."I agree. It's pretty obvious she was going to be turned the moment Amarantha lost her marbles and screeched at her.
I also was thinking-and it's farfetched but what if Sarah turned around the Beauty and the Beast retelling even more and flipped Tamlin into a kind of Gaston character? Or maybe Rhysand? Rhsyand is loved by almost everyone in the fandom that I can see, and Gaston was adored by all the women in the village. All except for Belle/Feyre. Except Rhysand is much more interesting and likable than Gaston ever could and ever would be.
I actually never saw the Disney Movie, but read the story first. And in that story, there was no love triangle or anything. There was not even a character known as Gaston. It was just Beauty - her real name is never said in the book I read - taken by the beast, exploring the place... then he finally lets her go to visit her parents and she comes back at the brink of time to save the Beast. I don't know where Rhysand fits in.
But, Sarah J. Maas is a "dangerous" writer, if you know what I mean. She took the tale and made it super awesome. I saw her Pin Interest page and saw a lot of people from the Night Court. And even one with Rhysand as a kid.
Still praying that there is no love triangle...
King Cobra wrote: "I actually never saw the Disney Movie, but read the story first. And in that story, there was no love triangle or anything. There was not even a character known as Gaston. It was just Beauty - he..."
Absolutely! Oh then if you do get the chance, do try out the Disney adaptation. It honestly is one of their best films, despite the flack I sometimes give them.
Hmm, I hear you on that. I honestly don't want a love triangle either. We've already too much of those. Though, I would hope Rhysand becomes the ending canon love interest, since Tamlin was just so dull to me. I wanted to love him, but I couldn't. I hope Rhsyand is the main love interest and that Feyre somehow cuts her romantic ties with Tamlin.
I think he saw a sigh that There is his soulmate...I felt sorry for him how he was held captive and known as her whore.
Kisses A wrote: "I think he saw a sigh that There is his soulmate...I felt sorry for him how he was held captive and known as her whore."Me too.
I love this quote "Everything that I love gets taken away from me" So sad =(
Kyndal wrote: "I really liked Rhysand. But him with Feyre? Nooooo. He needs someone more badass :D"I think Nesta would be perfect for him!
I feel like Nesta is too serious/ dry (?) for Rhys. He's more playful than serious (he can be serious when he wants to be but :/), he would need someone who is serious, but with a bit of sarcasm/ wits to them (Feyre 2.0 or even 1.5 would be good, as long as she isn't the same as she was in the first 85% of the book, making poor choices that put her life in jeapordy). That's why I think Lucien and Nesta would go well together, Lucien is sassy but serious and he would complement Nesta's personality that way. Hopefully I make sense Dx
So I think that her "mate" is rhysand and that's what he realized at that moment and he was shocked as hell.
What if Rhys is the Rowan to Feyre? I feel like that could be their relationship. I mean I ship Rowan and Aelin so I am shipping Rhys and Feyre. Although in the grand scheme of things It would hurt me to have Tamlin and Chaol hurt so badly. I have enough trust in Sara that I know she'll make the right decision.
Amy wrote: "What if Rhys is the Rowan to Feyre? I feel like that could be their relationship. I mean I ship Rowan and Aelin so I am shipping Rhys and Feyre. Although in the grand scheme of things It would hurt..."I think SJM will make Tamlin get over it, if Feyre decide to break up with him. Look what happen with Chaol and Aelin in TOG, new love interests are possible
Amy wrote: "What if Rhys is the Rowan to Feyre? I feel like that could be their relationship. I mean I ship Rowan and Aelin so I am shipping Rhys and Feyre. Although in the grand scheme of things It would hurt..."I've been thinking this, but I think we don't know enough yet... I look forward to seeing how Aelin/Rowan plays out in Queen of Shadows. That might giv us some more ideas!!!!
Yeah I don't see Maas writing it so that if Rhys and Feyre got together, Tamlin would be all mopey and miserable. Heck for all we know he'll develop with someone else while Feyre is developing with Rhysand.
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"His eyes locked on mine, wide and wild, and his nostrils flared. Shock--pure s..."
I think Rhysand mated with Feyre. He found his mate and was shocked and vanished.