A Court of Thorns and Roses
discussion
What do we think about the ending with Rhysand? [Spoilers]
Alyana wrote: "Laura wrote: "Lol I don't see Rhys begging for anyones affection or attention, no matter how much he wants it."I don't think that Rhys has any problem getting anyone's attention whether he wants ..."
Exactly. Tamlin suffocates her. She has so much potential. I'm very interested to see exactly how the bond plays out. Will it work like Fate? Or is it like Laura suggested? Grows in intensity with the relationship.
I trust Sarah on the timing here. Just because the foundation she built for this love story is very strong. ToG was difficult for me to read in part because that love interest triangle was very angsty and overdone. Just choose already or don't think about either that way! But with Feyre, her infatuation with Tamlin is understandable. And why I do think she loves him, she's not IN love with him. Like I said earlier, she didn't have any semblance of a normal life. Tamlin was her first love and that is only because in a way he was a father figure for her. He just provided food, shelter, paints, attention, kindness, and love. And to her, that was it. The second book will allow her to explore similarities, connections, comparability. She'll see soon enough that her and Tamlin don't have it.
Aqsa wrote: "Especially because Maas said that Feyre will find out all of Rhys's secrets.
Did Maas really say that!? AHHH IM SO EXCITED."
OH MY GOD!!!! I CAN'T.
Laura wrote: "@Olya I think that's going to happen with both of them. Someone will end up telling Feyre or she will notice herself that Rhys allows only her to call him names and banter with him. And he will not..."
Wait, both of them as in Rhysand himself won't know he likes her? I think if he finds out about the mate bond he'll get the picture lol. Plus the reason why I see that with Feyre is because she never likes to confront her emotions about something. But yeah I definitely think he likes her riled up. And I think he knows that's she's attracted to him. The purposeful groan? That was taunting lol. This will be so much fun.
So if the background of the new cover is a spoiler... the architecture does look very very Greek to me. And the night court is on a mountain, and not JUST on a mountain. It's practically touching the sky. Mountain Olympus anyone? And that would make sense. The gods live there, Zeus is the powerful one (excluding Nyx who nobody messes with). So it could be that Rhysand is really powerful, but then the Hades portion comes in with Feyre. But in the end she can end up being Hera (without the infanticide and murder lol). Sarah really likes to play around with her myths and this would be creative. We just have to see what the night court is like and then this will be clearer.
You know on the whole love triangle thing, there really wasn't ever one in ToG either. Dorian was never a serious contender. It was clear (at least to me) that Chaol was the one Celaena would be interested in on a serious scale. Then after the events of CoM, you can see Celaena started to move on from him in HoF. She and Rowan remain mostly platonic and by the time they become romantic in QoS, Celaena has already moved on from Chaol entirely. I'm thinking in ACOMAF, we'll see Tamlin and Feyre drift apart while she grows closer to Rhysand without even realizing it. I do think we'll get friendship first (like we did with Rowan and Celaena) that will eventually turn into something more.
And it really makes me simmer when a good portion of the ACOTAR fandom thinks that if Feyre ends up with Rhys in the end then everything that happened Under the Mountain would go to waste.
Because sadly many people think the point of the first book is all about the romance. They miss the bigger picture: that Feyre freed the courts from a tyrant. That, at the end of the day, is the most important aspect of the book because it advances the plot forward.
Although, we're only assuming she meant no love triangle when she tweeted "Who said she'd have to choose? ;)" or something like that.Another thing to consider. Choice implies options. If there is only one option, than there's no choice to be made. Meaning, Tamlin very well could simply bow out if there's a mate bond, taking himself out of the equation. Of course one of them could die, too.
Another option obviously is she'd end up with both of them. As immortals, I suppose that's not too crazy of an idea. I don't really see Tamlin being down for that though, lol.
One last interpretation of Maas's tweet is simply that if a mate bond is there, then there is no choice. The mate bond is the only choice.
And I'm positive that Tamlin literally said somewhere in the book "I just want you to stay here and paint, where I know you'll be safe". So there's that.
Omg that scene made me see red. All I could think of is...if you want a wife that will stay at home wrapped in the protective bubble without a care to whatever is happening in the world...than you got the wrong sister. Better luck with Nesta or Elain if you're looking for that, lol.
I think Feyre was okay playing house when 1) she knew she couldn't leave without jeopardizing her family 2) there was scary creatures out there and danger and 3) she had never had anyone take care of her before, so it was likely a pleasant surprise. However, now she's more suited to take care of herself in that world since she's high fae. And I think she'll go back to wanting to be productive and doing something other than paint. Especially now that she knows what's going on and isn't in the dark anymore.
WinterRose wrote: "Although, we're only assuming she meant no love triangle when she tweeted "Who said she'd have to choose? ;)" or something like that.Another thing to consider. Choice implies options. If there is..."
I think a bond changes things significantly. So this mating thing here is key to making something unique happen. There are so many ways this thing can play out!
Notice that after a while Feyre didn't want to sit around though. She just knew that Tamlin wouldn't accept her help. Even as a human, she couldn't be idle. It's agonizing.
WinterRose wrote: "You know on the whole love triangle thing, there really wasn't ever one in ToG either. Dorian was never a serious contender. It was clear (at least to me) that Chaol was the one Celaena would be in..."
I actually really liked Chaol for her, but it's clear that he would be temporary for her. He's there to help her in character development. I'm excited to continue reading! There are such mixed reviews about the last book and Rowan replacing Chaol. I haven't looked at spoilers so I just want to be surprised. And yes, I have to give credit to Sarah that at least the semi love triangle wasn't as annoying as many. Dorian was very likable, but you could tell she liked Chaol and that they were more compatible romantically.
But I do think that Sarah will do something different here. She already made Feyre very different from Celaena. And this is her best work yet. It's not that they won't be friends or anything like that, but it's how she will write it out. YA follows rules, and then there are the really poor authors who follow the same outlines. NA gave her room and you can see it in her writing. A reviewer wrote that this series will change the New Adult genre and I agree. I think many authors will take Sarah's example because the NA genre right now is basically romance books and not much fantasy.
Lol mentioning the winner's curse reminds me of that book. Did you read it? I really liked Kestrel, the main character. She was very clever and calculating.You know, too I've seen Maas said many times that ACOTAR STARTED as a B&tB retelling and then morphed into something new. Just that the elements of some retellings are in there. Since she's emphasized this so much, then I don't think Feyre/Tam is set in stone because "she's beauty and he's the beast." If anything, she's just as beastly as him.
For those of you who have read TOG, who do you think that Feyre would be shippable/compatible with in the TOG world? Dorian? Chaol? Rowan? Aedion?
I'm leaning more towards Aedion and Rowan at the moment. I don't think she would be comfortable with Dorian, who is sweet and innocent and a total book-worm (whereas, she cannot even read). And Chaol...idk, I just can't see that happening. They are too alike and submerged in their loyalties.It would definitely clash.
@ Laura. Glad you like it too! Kestrel is amazing and one of my favorite YA heroines. I really like Arin too, and how he's not just there to be a love interest but has his own journey as well.For those of you who have read TOG, who do you think that Feyre would be shippable/compatible with in the TOG world?
That's tough! I think I'd go with Aedion as well. (Rowan is what I wish Tamlin had been like, actually. He underwent a lot of character development in HoF; we still haven't seen development from Tam.) But I think Feyre and Rowan are both too serious. Aedion can be as well, but he also has humor. He has some parallels to Rhys when you think of his Adarlan's whore and bad boy reputation. He too puts on whatever mask he needs to.
So I remembered something else about Rhys and Feyre's dynamic. Remember when Rhys said “Because I’m tired and lonely, and you’re the only person I can talk to without putting myself at risk.”? I'm pretty sure this type of openness will continue in the Night Court. I doubt that Rhys is able to talk freely with anyone at his home. This will probably be the start of how they get closer in the next book. Rhys feels like he can talk to Feyre, and Feyre can't keep her mouth shut around him either.Gah, I just wanna know why he gave Feyre that tattoo. I feel like he wouldn't intentionally give someone he barely knows something that could go two ways (if you think that Feyre sensing Rhys' sadness and the part where their bond went "taut" part of the tattoo's power). Not unless he had some ulterior motive.
And while I'm on the subject of ulterior motives, why did he originally want Feyre to spend two weeks with him? I mean at the time she was still human and two weeks for the rest of her life may not have seemed like much to an immortal like him, but still......
Well, I have a feeling Rhys has the power to forbid someone from telling something he doesn't want shared. He does have mind control. But I think he would like to have someone he didn't NEED to do that to--like Feyre. I think you're right that they will probably continue their open communication.I can't wait to see what the other's think of how Feyre is so blunt around Rhys. Despite being afraid of him in the beginning, she still manages to insult him, tell him to shut his mouth, etc. Things I'm thinking most of his members of court wouldn't dare attempt. Lol I think they'll be so shocked they won't know how to react at first. Though...he may go into High Lord mode and not allow her to do that in public since he does have to enforce a certain respect. If he allows her to overstep boundaries, others will think it's okay or possibly get angry over her special treatment. (Of course they may just be too afraid or Rhys to say anything.) I don't know...it could go many ways. It will be interesting to see their dynamic in public and how other's react to it.
I didn't think of this, but if he did have members of his court under the mountain, than they already will think Feyre is his whore, and they'll know about the bargain. And also know what Feyre did for them, and that she loves Tamlin. So it could be a huge mess, lol.
It's weird...I don't think he intentionally meant to give her insight into his feelings. I think that was the bond forming. I think humans and fae can form mating bonds despite the difference in species. Lucien's relationship is a great way to exemplify this entire phenomena.
First, Lucien and his late girlfriend were waiting for the bond to snap, despite the fact that they were different species. So, we already have evidence that different species can mate.
Secondly, they said that they were 'waiting' for it to snap. If we read the book carefully, it was said that most high fae marry. But Lucien was 'waiting' for a bond, which means that there must have been some indication that a bond was going to form. None of the other couples in the book (Amarantha and Tamlin, Feyre and Tamlin, etc.) actively expressed the desire for a bond. So what made Lucien 'wait' for the bond? My theory is that the whole 'being able to sense each other's feelings' thing is a hint that the bond is about to settle in. That's why Lucien mourned his girlfriend so passionately--she was about to become his mate. If you are about to have a mating bond, you will start to feel how the other person feels. This leads to a courtship and some foreshadowing that a bond may occur. Also, Tamlin's mother was given a rose garden as a 'mating gift', which is somewhat like a wedding gift(which is preceded by a courtship) and implies that they knew each and it was not a sudden thing. So, the bond probably shows symptoms in the two mates before it fully 'snaps', in the form of emotional sensitivity to the 'mate'.
Here's how it relates to Rhys and Feyre. Under the mountain, Rhys probably missed the whole sensitivity to each Feyre's feelings because his powers (as well as the tattoo) already give him emotional sensitivity. It wouldn't have made much of a difference or given him hints about the bond like other fae. Feyre dismisses her awareness of Rhys's feelings as a part of the tattoo bond he gave her. So they are both blindsided by their assumptions.
I just wanna know why he gave Feyre that tattoo. I feel like he wouldn't intentionally give someone he barely knows something that could go two ways (if you think that Feyre sensing Rhys' sadness and the part where their bond went "taut" part of the tattoo's power)Same! I don't think he'd give her something that went two ways either. Which either means 1) it's not the tattoo that's making the two way thing happen 2) he didn't realize that would happen or 3) he didn't think she'd be able to tap into his thoughts.
Because frankly, I think when he does find out she can sense his feelings, he'd want to get rid of the tattoo IF that's what's causing it. (I almost have a feeling that's not it, though.)
As to why I think he said two weeks and made the deal in general...my theory right now is he wanted to get that tattoo on her to help her, so he made up an excuse that Amarantha would believe. Since it was essentially her idea for Feyre to do chores in Rhysand's room so he'd "have some fun with her" Rhys decided to use that to his advantage. He had such fun with her, that he wants to continue doing so, two weeks a month.
I think he could have given her that tattoo without making a bargain, but the bargain covers up the fact that he just wanted to be able to help her. So Amarantha doesn't have to question why it's there.
He could have made up any bargain of course, but I think he chose one that would specifically insult Amarantha (him stating that bargain tells her he expects Feyre to beat her) and to further infuriate Tamlin--because he believes building and playing on Tam's rage will help him defeat Amarantha. Because if Feyre beats Amarantha, none of the High Lord's are free except for Tamlin. So the only way for Rhys to be free is for Amarantha to die, and only Tamlin will be able to do that once his curse is lifted.
Furthermore, I don't think he ever planned on actually fulfilling the bargain even when he made it. I think he planned on lifting it since the purpose was just to cover up the the real reason of the tattoo. But I think when she died, the bargain became void anyway since it was made "for the rest of her life" rather than "for her entire existence." So that's why he said he came to say goodbye to her. But when Feyre brought it up, I think he changed his mind, and decided to play along with it because he genuinely is intrigued by her.
I think Sarah chose two weeks to parallel the whole Hades/Persephone bit. Persephone was there 6 months a year. And two weeks a month = 6 months.
Laura wrote: "A reviewer wrote that this series will change the New Adult genre and I agree.That's exactly what I thought. NA nowadays is just a more erotic and poorly written version of YA. ACOTAR is probably..."
You know why I trust Sarah with this? Because she LIVES this story. What did she say in that one interview? Rhysand wasn't planned. He just showed up at Fire Night and wanted a part. In my experience, anytime that a writer dreams up a story or lives with the characters, the writing ends up being SUPERB. There is something about the way she wrote this that is so very different from ToG. More personal. Like she decided to take a step. And it could be because it's NA and she gets to play around a little more. But you can see that she knows where she's going. Her pinterest board is another clue to that.
And yes! Her making the second book the consequences to the first just makes me excited. It's going to be original. Speaking of tropes, The Winner's Curse trilogy is pretty good. Kestrel isn't the most believable character (from the first book I read). She is said to be more intelligent and calculating than she is, unlike Feyre. But there are many things that make it worth reading. The first one is a bit more romance focused, but the love isn't romantic. It ends up being slightly vicious. Heaps and heaps of consequences.
Laura wrote: "Olya wrote: "Laura wrote: "@Alyana. I agree with you. I think he had to kill one of his subjects because he left the mountain against Amaranthas orders. I think that one of the reasons he might hav..."I just got to the part and yes! Holy crap I can't believe I didn't notice it the first time. There was a voice. So it could have been Rhysand and he was....drawn to her? Man all these questions!
CatcherR wrote: "For those of you who have read TOG, who do you think that Feyre would be shippable/compatible with in the TOG world? Dorian? Chaol? Rowan? Aedion?
I'm leaning more towards Aedion and Rowan at t..."
I'm limited to this but Chaol to me is such a cinnamon roll lol. I think Feyre is darker and colder than him. Dorian is a very mild character. Idk how much that changes. Even though he's kind of adorable and he has a playful side but he lacks action. I'm guessing I'm going to really like Aedion. Wonderful. Because I already don't obsess over these characters enough.
Laura wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "Lol mentioning the winner's curse reminds me of that book. Did you read it? I really liked Kestrel, the main character. She was very clever and calculating.
You know, too I've s..."
Clearly, I'm not going to get favors with Kestrel lol. Oh well. I LOVED their love though. I like how tables turned so much. That is the kind of stuff I live for lol. And I love how we find out that Feyre is the one with thorns and Tamlin is the roses. I just really like what Sarah did with this story.
WinterRose wrote: "Lol mentioning the winner's curse reminds me of that book. Did you read it? I really liked Kestrel, the main character. She was very clever and calculating.
You know, too I've seen Maas said many ..."
You basically beat me to my answer lol. But I think sometimes Kestrel made really stupid decisions that didn't make her general-worthy at all. Like the author kept heaping those compliments so that the reader would buy into it. Not always though, she definitely had good points. I know the second book is better so I'm gonna read it soon!
And yes! Rhysand wasn't planned so imagine that. It would be like Cruel Beauty. Nothing is wrong with retelling but that they're not original and so they need to be done REALLY REALLY well. But Sarah likes to play around with her mythologies and fairy tales so I'm on board!
Laura wrote: "OKAY.Now I am pretty sure Feyre has foresight abilities. I found another clue:
“I know what day it is,” Tamlin said—but not to Lucien. Rather, the two of them faced … nothing. Someone who wasn’t..."
Woooow. I didn't even remember her painting the Attor before she saw one Under the Mountain. I wonder if this is the power she'll hone in ACOMAF? If she was having prophetic dreams as a human, I wonder if it'll be stronger as a fae?
I actually read a similar theory about Rhys being in her dreams on Tumblr. I think it's pretty plausible, but I wonder if he'll admit to it in the next book. But your idea of them sharing dreams is pretty interesting. We still don't know why Rhys was at the Rite. Since Feyre was never able to identify the shadow, maybe Rhys never knew what she looked like exactly either? I mean he did say "There you are. I've been looking for you." when he saved her the first time they met. And then he dove right into asking her questions. Maybe he really was looking for her?
Olya wrote: "I just got to the part and yes! Holy crap I can't believe I didn't notice it the first time. There was a voice. So it could have been Rhysand and he was....drawn to her? Man all these questions!"
As Olya and a bunch of other people have already pointed out, Feyre was drawn out that night. A lot of people already think that it was actually Rhys calling her, but I'm still not 100% sure if that was intentional or not. Could it have been that they were both unintentionally drawn together that night? There's still a lot we don't know about the mechanics of Calanmai.
SO THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY LONG BUT I WANT TO HEAR YOUR OPINIONS So I am a hard core shipper of Rhysand and Feyre. I wasn't a fan of Tamlin because it was very niave and lusty seeming. They don't have deep meaning conversations. He tells her things about his past but they are very shrouded. Also a lot of times in the book Tamlin growls, snarls, or has air of being royally pissed. Ugh there was one scene that really stuck out to me but is slipping my mind once find I'll share it with you guys. But it really struck me as kinda rude and just made me pause. But anyways the reason I think Rhys and Feyre are mates is because of the ALL of the context clues and the ending. Maas is known for those. SO sit back because I've been rereading the book and taking notes of what stick outs. I'll update as I go.
So let's start out with The Great Rite. I remember reading a tweet saying that each court holds one. So that means that Rhys is there for some reason. We don't know the reason but my theory aligns with many of your out there. It was because of their bond/mate. SO let's go with some textual evidence. " I hadn’t realized how far I stood from everyone else—how close I’d come to the forest’s edge." + on bothered to look her way, their faces were blurred. She could only kinda see them if she glanced sidelong. When those fae took her she stated again this would be the 3rd or 4th time "No one looked, no one noticed." That really stuck out because of how many times she said it. The only person who really saw her was Rhys. Also "The drumming was increasing in tempo, building to a climax I didn’t understand." That's a rather odd thing to add in since the only times she mentions the music effecting her is when she felt the tug and when she was with Rhys. Now that she is with him it's as if it's speaking to her.
During the whole ordeal with Rhys she says " Though it might have been the biggest risk I’d ever taken, I BLURTED, “So you’re not a part of the Spring Court?” + "I should have walked away, should have shut my mouth. “Why are you here, then?" This is the first example presented to us that she can't control/help herself around him. It feels right or natural. Unlike with Tamiln whom she holds things back. People like t say that Tam found her after the rite, but tha seemed very fishy to me and after a second look I realized something. “Don’t ever disobey me again,” he said" there it's obvious to me that he was doing those things to scare Feyre & to toy with her. The line "Then I reconsidered his words and straightened. He grinned at me in that wild way, and my hand connected with his face" shows that he was acting and she realized it thus the face slap. I think the light bulb factor was shoved aside because of the lustfulness of that scene. This and the fact that he was a statue during the trail indicates that Tamlin is a great actor.
The fire night is mentioned again later which shows it holds some kind of value. " “She let you out for Fire Night. And you somehow got out to put that head in the garden.”
“She asked me to put that head in the garden. And as for Fire Night …” He looked me up and down. “I had my reasons to be out then. Do not think, Feyre, that it did not cost me.” He smiled again, and it didn’t meet his eyes." HE LOOK ME UP AND DOWN I didn't start shipping them till this moment. He didn't look away,didn't shrug,he scanned her. Okay that's all I have for now on the Rite Night. But on a side note I love/ incredibly interested in the line " My heart became a leaden weight as those casual, strolling steps sounded from behind. They stopped when they were beside me-- far to close for my liking." I find itintresting that he stood so close to her and she noticed it.
What do you guys feel about that line?
TheBookie16 wrote: " I remember reading a tweet saying that each court holds one."Did SJM tweet that? Or someone else?
And as for Fire Night …” He looked me up and down. “I had my reasons to be out then. Do not think, Feyre, that it did not cost me.” He smiled again, and it didn’t meet his eyes." HE LOOK ME UP AND DOWN I didn't start shipping them till this moment.
OMG good catch I didn't even remember or realize when I read this. That might be an indication that Rhys went to the Spring Court because of her.
My heart became a leaden weight as those casual, strolling steps sounded from behind. They stopped when they were beside me-- far to close for my liking."
What scene in the book is this from?
CatcherR wrote: "First, Lucien and his late girlfriend were waiting for the bond to snap, despite the fact that they were different species. So, we already have evidence that different species can mate. "Lucien's girlfriend just wasn't High Fae, she was still a faerie though.
CatcherR wrote: Rhys probably missed the whole sensitivity to each Feyre's feelings because his powers (as well as the tattoo) already give him emotional sensitivity.
And then this brings us to the original question of this discussion board. What made Rhys so surprised at the end? His powers give him an indication of what others around him feel, but here's an interesting thing Rhys told Feyre before he left:
Rhysand stared at me for long enough that I faced him. “Be glad of your human heart, Feyre. Pity those who don’t feel anything at all.”
What if after spending almost five decades being Amarantha's whore, after having to kill and torture so many people he had nothing against, he just shut his feelings away. Or simply gave up feeling lonely and miserable.
What if the thing that surprised him at the end was that he was able to feel what Feyre felt. Not just sense with his power but actually felt it. At this point he still hasn't recovered from his experience Under the Mountain, so he isn't getting emotional just yet. Also, Feyre just got done explaining how she felt about becoming High Fae, how she still cared about what she had done.
Alright, I'm convinced now (more so than before) that those two are mates. Or about to be. I think CatcherR is right in that the mate bond in this universe doesn't happen immediately but is more like the epitome of what a relationship develops into. It's even more serious and binding than marriage after all.
Alyana wrote: "TheBookie16 wrote: " I remember reading a tweet saying that each court holds one."Did SJM tweet that? Or someone else?
And as for Fire Night …” He looked me up and down. “I had my reasons to be ..."
My heart became a leaden weight as those casual, strolling steps sounded from behind. They stopped when they were beside me-- far to close for my liking."
What scene in the book is this from?
It's when they bring in Lucien and Rhys uses his gifts against him to find out Feyre's name. And I'm not sure if she tweeted that or if it was favorited. They're a blur
Also can someone please talk about:
-“Feyre!” someone roared. No, not someone—Rhysand.
-Rhysand yelled my name again—yelled it as though he cared
-“Stop,” I breathed, blood filling my mouth as I strained a hand to reach her feet. “Please.”
-Rhys’s arms buckled as he fought to rise, and blood dripped from his nose, splattering on the marble. His eyes met mine.
The bond between us went taut. I flashed between my body and his, seeing myself through his eyes, bleeding and broken and sobbing.
-Rhysand bellowed my name as I lost my grip on the room.
There's a lot of Rhys but not Tamlin...
And we also see her slipping into depression minutes in not moments after she killed those two fae this:
"One faerie—and then we were free. Just one more swing of my arm.And maybe one more after that—maybe one more swing, up and inward and into my own heart.
It would be a relief—a relief to end it by my own hand, a relief to die rather than face this, what I’d done
I don't believe that she and Tamlin are a long lasting relationship. They have "love" but it's very lusty, and she has never had real love in her life before. So for a attractive man to come and give her attention and time and things. It must be amazing and all consuming.
When Amarantha is killing Feyre, Feyre has see's her memories and she saw: saw that afternoon we’d lain in the grass, saw that morning we’d watched the sunrise, when for a moment—just one moment—I’d known true happiness. She loves him but it's not a true love my soul is bonded to yours love.
Alyana wrote: "CatcherR wrote: "First, Lucien and his late girlfriend were waiting for the bond to snap, despite the fact that they were different species. So, we already have evidence that different species can ..."'What made him surprised?"
I think, he was surprised because the bond (in theory) gives both mates the ability to 'feel' what their future-mate is feeling at the same time. So, most fae have an indication that the fae will be their mate. Feyre mentioned that she was able to feel the sadness inside of Rhys.
If the ability to feel someone's emotions is an indicator that a bond will snap...Rhys would never be able to tell because he can already feel them, with or without the bond.
So, when he saw through Feyre's eyes (as we believe that the bond officially occurs), he was totally blindsided by the revelation.
I think that the moments on the balcony are when they officially confirm the bond. Rhys tells Feyre he didn't want her to die alone (something she said previously). And the Feyre says that she doesn't know if she wants to let go of the bad things she feels. Then Rhys stares at her for a while. My guess is that what Feyre said reminded Rhys of something he had thought earlier in his life...or something that very closely parallels one of his thoughts.
And their mutual understanding of "did (s)he just say what I said a few pages ago?" morphs into a bond. Boom!
Laura wrote: "From an interview with Sarah:"In Book Two, there are a lot of new creepy creatures. There is one moment when Feyre is in a Hansel and Gretel-type situation – it’s one of my favourite scenes ever...."
Well what I remember of the Hansel and Gretel lore is that they were led astray in the woods and ended up in a witches house where they were about to get eaten..........Oh Feyre, is there no end to the trouble you get into?
CatcherR wrote: "Rhys tells Feyre he didn't want her to die alone (something she said previously). And the Feyre says that she doesn't know if she wants to let go of the bad things she feels. Then Rhys stares at her for a while. My guess is that what Feyre said reminded Rhys of something he had thought earlier in his life...or something that very closely parallels one of his thoughts."
Oh my gosh, I think you might be right on the money here. Maybe that's what he meant by saying "Pity those who don't feel anything at all"?
Regarding what Laura and Alyana mentioned- if knowing who your mate is means the bond forming is a "feeling"of sorts, then Rhys's reaction must have been 'feeling' what Feyre was 'feeling' in that moment on the balcony, as she explained her thoughts after what happened under the mountain.His reaction of surprise must also have been realizing that he FELT HER feelings, in contrast to what he literally just said a few moments ago, "Pity those who feel nothing at all."
How ironic.
Maybe that's one of the reasons he doesn't come back for her until the day of the wedding because he was probably trying to catch up with the fact that they have this connection or are mates. It really must have rattled him! (Poor baby)
He technically is hundreds of years old- what are the chances that he knows exactly what falls under being someone's mate and him knowing that Feyre is his? Especially after the balcony moment. Do you think in a way, when he brings her to the Night Court, he would treat her like such? (Perhaps in a very subtle, private way so as to not let the secret out until Feyre realizes it herself.) (Plus, they do eventually go off to Rhys's cabin in the mountains, so maybe he takes her flying on a date and such. *wink*)
But that's probably got to be it. Good thinking, guys!
P.S: The Hansel and Gretel situation thing sounds interesting! I wonder where this happens? Spring Court? Night Court? Somewhere along the way or Feyre gets lost somehow?
Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned but, doesn't it feel like the Attor might come back and meet Feyre again? I just felt like her interaction with it was rather unusual, PLUS the fact that she technically saves its life and frees it- I don't remember much about the Attor's personality but maybe the Attor comes back and repays her for that rescue by saving her in a bad situation? Thoughts?
Laura wrote: "I think it must be something like their feelings aligning. That was basically a moment of mutual understanding with all of their parallels and similarities flying in our faces. Hence the expression..."This is my current theory too. What Aqsa said in her last comment basically summed up what I've been saying so far today. I'm sure that his power allows him to tell what others are feeling, not feel what they're feeling. If that were the case he would have been really miserable considering he had to kill and torture a lot of people while under Amarantha's thumb.
Aqsa wrote: "(Plus, they do eventually go off to Rhys's cabin in the mountains, so maybe he takes her flying on a date and such. *wink*)"
Oh my goooosh, I am so excited for this. I hope that picture in SJM's pinterest wasn't just a red herring or I'm just gonna die.
Aqsa wrote: "Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned but, doesn't it feel like the Attor might come back and meet Feyre again? I just felt like her interaction with it was rather unusual, PLUS the fact that she technically saves its life and frees it- I don't remember much about the Attor's personality but maybe the Attor comes back and repays her for that rescue by saving her in a bad situation? Thoughts"
I'm pretty sure you mean the Suriel here? I was actually thinking the same thing. Maybe he comes in the next book and gives Feyre some insight on the King of Hybern? Or some other favor in return for saving his life?
I think CatcherR is right in that the mate bond in this universe doesn't happen immediately but is more like the epitome of what a relationship develops intoSarah also said this. That a mate bond is different for every couple--for some it happens right away like love at first sight, but for other's it takes time to develop.
If the ability to feel someone's emotions is an indicator that a bond will snap...Rhys would never be able to tell because he can already feel them, with or without the bond.
Very good point. Not to mention the tattoo allowed him to know what Feyre was feeling. Like how he pointed to the tattoo when mentioning he detected something different than disgust after he licked Feyre's tears.
I noticed that the tattoo seems to cause...unaware mind presence. When Rhysand entered Feyre's mind to search her memories, she felt him there and felt the claws. But when he licked her tears, she didn't seem to be aware that he could feel what she was feeling. He also didn't seem to be aware that SHE felt his sadness.
However, for him to actually enter her mind (to go beyond just sensing her feelings), then she noticed. Just before he talked to her in her mind during the second task, she felt her tattooed arm burn.
I have a feeling it was SEEING herself through Rhys that was the mate bond snapping into place for her. Because the only two times Feyre was seeing through Rhys was during that moment when the bond went taut--and when she died.
I considered that the reason she saw through his eyes was because her life was dimming, but that scene was when Rhys was being beaten by Amarantha. Feyre wasn't dying yet.
I also think the big clue here is actually in Heir of Fire, it says "The Fae had mates: an unbreakable bond, deeper than marriage, that lasted beyond death."
Feyre was dead, and yet she was still there, lingering in Rhys. If that was simply the tattoo, that's one hell of a tattoo.
Laura wrote: "OKAY.Now I am pretty sure Feyre has foresight abilities. I found another clue:
“I know what day it is,” Tamlin said—but not to Lucien. Rather, the two of them faced … nothing. Someone who wasn’t..."
THIS was what I have been asking! Who is the shadow in her dreams? Because Rhysand is difficult to gouge. Sometimes it seems like he knew about her before anyone else. How much is he REALLY faking? And I definitely always thought that her gifts will include that seer ability whatever it is. Did she actually have a dream of Rhysand (where she knew it was him)? I don't remember. But that shadow always made me think it was him. Shadows follow him, night court, and the fact that he's on top of his game.
My theory is that him reading Feyre's mind was for show. The beginning of his game. I think that he was a good actor but had a lot more planned. Sarah did say we will find out his secrets. I think he knew about her possibly.
WinterRose wrote: "I think CatcherR is right in that the mate bond in this universe doesn't happen immediately but is more like the epitome of what a relationship develops intoSarah also said this. That a mate bond..."
Completely agree on this. Now the question that's left is what happened to Rhysand for him to get that a bond is there. Something to remember is it seemed like he scented something. You mentioned earlier that he wasn't looking at her when he caught the bond or whatever it was, I love how you catch the parallels between ToG and this! :) So good.
I'm excited to see what she will do with this Hansel and Gretel snippet. So many possibilities. I'm glad it's still good ol' Feyre. Never ceasing to get into some kind of trouble :D My theory is that a lot of the big bad will want a piece of her because she's going to be this newly turned fae celebrity. Not something that happens every century so she's going to be a hot commodity.
The one thing that I'm really confirming more and more to myself is that you really can't take anybody's word for it. Tamlin lied. Lucien lied. Rhysand lied. Alis lied. They all lie because they can, need to, want to. And sure I think Feyre should trust Rhysand first because he's the only one that risked his neck and understood her best, but I do think he has secrets regarding Feyre. Just like Tamlin has secrets with his past and humans. And the way that Rhysand talks to her, it's clear he's challenging her to figure it out. Like she can. Because she has gifts. He gives her teasing hints to his actions. And notice that Tamlin and Lucien did the same with the curse. They played her on every move. Sooner or later she'll find out what Rhys did :DI still laugh at the part where she snuck out because she thought she saw her dad, oblivious to the fact that there were a bunch of fae in the garden watching her. It's just such typical Feyre luck lol
Speaking of, I was thinking that the shadows (if it was Rhys), what if it was just her gift again? What if because she was so close to meeting him, that she got those alerts? She got the death dream with Amarantha when she was closer to going up the mountain herself. Her dreams started out regularly. It seems to work like a warning bell.
Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: ""And though my dreams continued to be plagued by the deaths I’d witnessed, the deaths I’d caused, and that horrible pale woman ripping me to shreds—all watched over by a shadow I could never quite ..."Hmmm the dream and the challenges are different though. Unless you mean that the dream told her to trust the shadow? It's funny because it's only a shadow. The only way it alludes to Rhysand is that he's made up of night. Plus he was around. My first choice is that it's just her gifts giving her a warning. Second that it was Rhysand infiltrating her dreams somehow (although this doesn't seem very Sarah but who knows).
The second challenge definitely affirmed that he is someone she needs to trust. That for me was their groundbreaking moment. She was the first to shatter a bit, then it was him.
Plus! Feyre seemed to be wearing some kind of black feathered dress in the first and second book cover. Rhysand is always wearing black and he is the High Lord of the Night Court, and he has wings and...feather.
Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "Ooh i think Eline will die at some point.i really dont like the idea of the sisters being with Lucien or Rhysand at all, like just cuz the dudes are there dont mean theyll fall in love.
The Fae..."
I agree. I am not against it but I was kinda' hoping that doesn't happen.
This is long and I am so sorry, just wanted to put all my replies into one postLaura wrote: "I think it must be something like their feelings aligning. That was basically a moment of mutual understanding with all of their parallels and similarities flying in our faces. Hence the expression..."
Haha, that's what I've been thinking so far too. All these parallels cannot just be a coincidence, SJM definitely put them there for a reason.
WinterRose wrote: "When Rhysand entered Feyre's mind to search her memories, she felt him there and felt the claws. But when he licked her tears, she didn't seem to be aware that he could feel what she was feeling. He also didn't seem to be aware that SHE felt his sadness."
I think that's because being able to tell what someone is feeling doesn't require anything in depth. Rhys mentioned to Feyre that he could sense the anger coming from Tamlin, but nothing about being able to feel his feelings:
"Oh, you should have been born with my abilities, if only to have felt the rage that seeped from him.”
But being able to see someone's memories requires you to go into their mind, hence the "claws" feeling that Feyre gets.
Now it's interesting that Feyre is able to sense what Rhys is feeling. I think that the tattoo give them a certain amount of an emotions bond (not so much an emotional bond but rather being able to tell how the other is feeling I think). Feyre was able to tell that Rhys was sad when they were talking about his court, and Rhys was able to detect something other than disgust after licking Feyre's tears. He also motioned to the eye part of the tattoo, which is a hint that this is a part of the tattoo's power.
I've been wondering for a while, ever since I first read it actually, if the type of tattoo Rhys put on her has some significance in Night Court culture. He said bargains are marked this way in the Night Court, but I'm pretty sure he was just lying to her to cover up the real reason he put the tattoo on her.
WinterRose wrote: "Feyre was dead, and yet she was still there, lingering in Rhys. If that was simply the tattoo, that's one hell of a tattoo."
Exactly! I think that Feyre will reveal something that she saw while she was "dead" but seeing through Rhys, and that will tip off anyone she told (Lucien or Tamlin maybe) that she's connected to Rhys in a way that shouldn't be possible simply from magic. Rhys only had a fraction of his full power when he put the tattoo on her, so I imagine a part of her soul staying with Rhys after she died is definitely not part of the tattoo's power.
Olya wrote: "The one thing that I'm really confirming more and more to myself is that you really can't take anybody's word for it. Tamlin lied. Lucien lied. Rhysand lied. Alis lied. They all lie because they can, need to, want to."
This is what I'm most looking forward to in ACOMAF. All the skeletons just flying out of the closet.
Olya wrote: "She got the death dream with Amarantha when she was closer to going up the mountain herself. Her dreams started out regularly. It seems to work like a warning bell."
I think if she has the power of foresight, then it works as sort of a premonition of danger or death. I was actually theorizing that this type of foresight power is a type of Night Court power, since someone previously mentioned that stars are frequently used to predict the future (horoscopes for example). If that's the case, then what if this is linked to why Rhys' dad killed Tamlin's family. It might have been a personal grudge, or maybe someone in his court with this power tipped him off that Tam's family would be the cause of some disaster.
Amber Lim wrote: "Plus! Feyre seemed to be wearing some kind of black feathered dress in the first and second book cover. Rhysand is always wearing black and he is the High Lord of the Night Court, and he has wings and...feather."
I always wondered about this too. Even though the first book is mostly in the Spring Court, Feyre is wearing black on the cover. The thing is that SJM doesn't have a say in what the cover looks like (I think), so I'm not sure if this has any significance to the story. It might though, since I think the buildings on the cover of ACOMAF are part of the Night Court (which is also still a theory at this point).
You know, maybe Rhysand actually gives Feyre part of HIS powers. But maybe she can only apply those powers to himself and her. So she can't sense others' feelings like he can, but she can sense his and communicate with him. The thing is that SJM doesn't have a say in what the cover looks like (I think), so I'm not sure if this has any significance to the story.
She actually said, at least with ACOMAF, that there was a lot of going back and forth and communicating to finalizing the cover. I think it's different for every author, but from my understanding Sarah does have say in them. I too noticed she's dressed in black on both covers; the irony is that Rhys is the only one constantly described as being in black. (Oh, the Darkling feels.)
I also think the "shadow" in Feyre's dreams refer to Rhysand. I also think maybe the Suriel's words of "stay with the High Lord" could refer to him, too.
I think she will probably have her own set of powers--the foresight ones...or maybe even ones that allow her to see different events in time...both past and future. That would explain the dreams she sees (the future) and the pictures on SJM's wall (the past).Do you think that Feyre will be able to walk through walls like the rest of night court?
Technically Feyre could just hold onto a Night Court person to walk through walls even if she can't--but I do think she'll be able to. Since my theory is her powers will be Night Court related.One of the summaries mentions the "dazzling" powers of the Night Court. The word "dazzling" definitely reminds me of stars, so I think whatever starry powers there are aren't just specific to Feyre, but the Night Court itself.
Yeah, SJM posted a few more pictures of a hand with stars inside of it. I think those have to do with Feyre powers. So maybe she can read the future in her hands...or see visions through light in her palms. Any ideas? Personally, Rhysand powers sound a lot cooler and darker to me. But we'll have to see what happens with her.
Laura wrote: "I trust Feyres powers will be really cool. I also think she'll be able to walk through walls, since this seems to be a power everyone in the Night Court has. @WinterRose, I think your idea is very ..."I think it's canon that each court has a special type of magic that they can use.
So there are 12 weekends till the next book comes out. I need 12 new book series to read during the weekends. Any suggestions? I love this and ToG series.
What if belonging to a certain court comes with a set of basic powers? Yes, like Alyana, I think there's certain powers that are associated with each court. Like walking through walls is something the night court can do.
@ TheBookie16...what book series' have you read so far?
@WinterRoseUglies
Graceling
Lord of the Rings
Lunar Chronicles
Percy Jackson
Shiver
Divergent
Maze Runner
The Treatment
Hunger Games
Enders Game
Throne of Glass
To name a few those are a lot of popular YA but I really like the Fantsasy Sifi thing
@TheBookie16I recommend The Raven Cycle. Definitely has a fantasy/mystery vibe.
Lots of good ones on your list. :D Here are some of my favorites:The Young Elites
The Winner's Curse
Uprooted (this is new adult and a stand alone)
Angelfall
Vampire Academy (heroine is like Celaena, but more likable IMO)
Shadow and Bone
Six of Crows (sequel series to Shadow and Bone)
Some adult series I really like are:
Kate Daniels series - this is urban fantasy
Darkfever
WinterRose wrote: "Lots of good ones on your list. :D Here are some of my favorites:The Young Elites
The Winner's Curse
Uprooted (this is new adult and a stand alone)
Angelfall
Vampire Academy (heroine is like C..."
AMEN to this list!! The Grisha trilogy has mixed feelings so be aware you might love it or be pissed off. But I REALLY recommend Angelfall. Go read it right now if you haven't. Then the Winner's Curse. Uprooted sounds really good. Also the Bloodlines series (sequel to Vampire Academy) was pretty good.
Adult:
Chicagoland Vampires
Fever series
Kate Daniels (the first book is bad. it's true. I promise that it picks up from the second one. Third one is my favorite)
So I always just assumed that each court had their own power traits. For Night court it seems more psychological because of the stars-- astrology, future,personality trait, psyche,etc. It deals more with the brain. Also considering that she will have to deal with King Hybern, it's safe to assume she will have impressive powers. I just don't think she'll grow into them right away. All will take time getting used to.
Thank you so much for tbd book recommendations I'll be reading these!Can we take a moment to make a book prediction?
Like I would combust if at one point in the book Feyre gets hurt or sick (possibly hurts herself the first time flying) and Tamlin comes to Night Court. And him having his little attitude problem would get mad at Rhys. Claws out and everything. And we know Feyre wouldn't allow this crap so she yells at him or something causing Tam to start walking to her.
As we know from Heir of Fire the fae are territorial. So Rhys would come and stand in the path of Feyre. And that's when Tamlin knows something's up.
Yeah, that would be an exciting hint for the mate bond and tension. Do you think we will actually ever get to see hybern in future books? I can't see Feyre actually going there unless she was captured or was fighting there.
I could see Feyre trading herself in for Rhys at the end of the book and going to Hybern. The king would probably want her as a prisoner, especially with her foresight ability and mate bond.
And if the king is really bad...he may use Feyre in the same way that Rhys was used to taunt him.
From my experience with Young Adult, I would say that Feyre would never whore herself...but since this is a new territory....
TheBookie16 wrote: "Thank you so much for tbd book recommendations I'll be reading these!Can we take a moment to make a book prediction?
Like I would combust if at one point in the book Feyre gets hurt or sick (po..."
I would second the Six of Crows rec that Winter made earlier. It's set in the same universe as the Grisha Trilogy, but it's waaaaaay better. The characters are hilarious too.
CatcherR I believe that could happen ( Feyre trading herself for Rhys) I think the doing What Amarantha did to Rhys I'll do to you, is a possibility. What if Feyre trades herself or captured during a battle and the king uses her as his weapon. Like she has this amazing power but the King controls her and her power. Kinda like the kings personal assassins?
Do you think we will actually ever get to see hybern in future books? I can't see Feyre actually going there unless she was captured or was fighting thereThere's images of a prison labeled for book 2 on Sarah's board. The images seem to be surrounded by green land, and I remember Hybern was said to be green. I can't remember the exact description but when I re-read it, I noticed it was similar to those images on her board.
So I think either Feyre will get captured, or someone else will. It seems too similar for her to be imprisoned again. But maybe there are people in the Night Court imprisoned and she and Rhys will have to break them out.
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So I trained and fought for my father against whomever he told me to fight, and I
would have been happy to leave the scheming to my brothers. But my power kept growing, and I
couldn’t hide it—not among our kind.” He shook his head. “Fortunately or unfortunately, they were
all killed by the High Lord of an enemy court. I was spared for whatever reason or Cauldron-granted
luck.