A Court of Thorns and Roses
discussion
What do we think about the ending with Rhysand? [Spoilers]
If Rhysand and Feyre do have a mating bond, I'm very curious how Tamlin will take it. Will he think they can defy the bond? Or will he be more..traditional in his thinking and let her go? I can see it going either way.
I think that fire night is held in spring court and all the other high lords come. Why would all the other court fae be allowed to travel to spring court without repercussions? Also, it explains why Rhys was there. He wanted to help his own land.According to twitter, there will be a winter ceremony--fire night part 2. This will probably be held in either winter, spring or night court.
My guess is that Feyre will be the maiden. There will probably be a Tamlon and Rhys confrontation because of their interest in Feyre. The magic controls them so things will probably get very interesting...
CatcherR wrote: "According to twitter, there will be a winter ceremony--fire night part 2. This will probably be held in either winter, spring or night court. "Ahhhhhh I'm so excited for this book!
WinterRose wrote:"If Rhysand and Feyre do have a mating bond, I'm very curious how Tamlin will take it. Will he think they can defy the bond? Or will he be more..traditional in his thinking and let her go? I can see it going either way."
Honestly, I think he would be pretty upset, but I'm hoping that he won't pick a fight with Rhys. That would be catastrophic. Plus I don't think Feyre would just sit and watch it happen, which would make Tam even more upset.
CatcherR wrote: "Apparently, the second book is split into parts. My theory is the first part will have a triangle and more Tamlin related stuff. The first part of the book is called 'house of beasts' which sound..."
I don't think it will be a love triangle, more like Feyre and Tamlin are still together but Rhys keeps butting in. I think in the beginning Feyre will act kind of hostile towards Rhys (he did crash her wedding day), but she'll remember that he basically saved her life and kept her alive Under the Mountain and that will keep her from wanting to break her bargain/remove the tattoo.
I'm really excited to get more exposition on Tamlin and Rhysand. The only character that we actually do know well is Feyre, and she's clueless most of the time.
Olya wrote: "Alyana wrote: "So I found the quote about mating in the book. Before this they only mentioned it. If there are anymore I'll post again:"High Fae mostly marry," he said, his golden skin flushing a..."
*high pitched screams with you*
I mean its such a specific way to explain mating. If you think of it in the context that every sentence/event in the book is leading up to something then this is a big clue. (AAHHHH) Plus, the UK summary says "Only she can end the encroaching evil, but to do so she must confront her past, embrace her powers, and discover her heart’s true desire."
That's implying that the desire in her heart now isn't her true one.
This is just too much. I really want that book now. I need to know if these theories are right!
Exactly. When I saw the word "discover" in the UK summary I felt even more certain that Feyre's romance with Tamlin will change. There's no need for her to discover what she already has--you discover something NEW.
So to be less annoying I'm just going to answer all questions in one thread.1) Will Tamlin let Feyre go or fight for her?- Honestly? I think BEFORE he finds out about the bond he'll just be very pissed off and get into some conflict with Rhysand, savior or not. But when he finds out? He'll be upset but back off. Just judging by who he is. Also keep in mind that he's not in love with her. His actions under the mountain proved that this is infatuation. He took such stupid risks.
2) Feyre being a maiden.- I can't even think about that. What does that entail anyways and I never imagined her participating. But. She does have Tamlin now so I guess she will. Oh how weird and wonderful that will be lol! And maybe that's the week that Rhysand will claim her. Innocently of course. No calculations at all. *side eyes*
3) I don't think it will be a love triangle.- Neither do I. Not as love triangles usually go. In fact, I think Rhysand will keep his mouth shut for a looong time lol. He'll just keep butting in, be flirty, do those Rhysand things. They'll become friends at first, definitely. Rhysand will have to get over the shock of it himself. And I agree, Feyre will be pretty pissy at first. I can see her refusing to leave her room for the first couple of days at night court lol. Or on the contrary she becomes incredibly fascinated by her surroundings and makes friends, talks to anyone but Rhysand LOL. God I love them both.
4) discovering heart's desire- we're with you Alyana. WinterRose dissected that one well lol. I think the hearts desire is more of her life, meaning that it's not going to be quiet because she is destined for more than a simple cottage with paints. But it's also about what that ENTAILS, and she deserves love with someone who is also epic and a leader. The way that I think Sarah is going to let her become. And I think that Rhysand will be helpful in that she is so new. She's still going to be clueless and clumsy. She's still Feyre.
Olya wrote: "So to be less annoying I'm just going to answer all questions in one thread.1) Will Tamlin let Feyre go or fight for her?- Honestly? I think BEFORE he finds out about the bond he'll just be very ..."
I agree with you. I get the feeling that mate bonds are pretty sacred and basically set in stone for fae. It's interesting that you would say that Tamlin doesn't love Feyre. I mean it's true that all of their moments before they went Under the Mountain are questionable since it was for breaking the curse, but I never took it that far. I mean it could have evolved into something more for him. I think the first time he said "I love you" was after Rhys paid them a visit. Maybe he was prompted to say that because he knew time was running out? I also remember him saying it again when they revive Feyre at the end. Between these two moments I'm pretty sure (I mean I'd bet money on this) that he didn't say it at all. I know that he was next to Amarantha constantly during this time, but not even a message.......I mean he could have had Lucien pass something? Anything? Because anything from Tamlin would have helped Feyre immensely, even just keeping her hope and sanity intact. Wow......now that I think about it, that was kinda terrible. I mean nothing from Tamlin at all.......Not even during that hallway scene before her third trial. I don't even think they talked at all they just started making out! And were about to do it right there! Wtf.......(not even a "good luck, I love you"!)..................And that "I love you" at the end is also kinda............Because he was in front of a crowd, a mix of every court, and Feyre had just died for them, answering the riddle with her dying breath to give them a chance at freedom..........(was that "I love you" just in the moment?)...................
edit: I just read it again and he did say "I love you" after the hallway scene Under the Mountain (but now I'm like "Tamlin...do you really though?")
I think a lot of us (or even the whole fandom) would breathe a sigh of relief if there's no love triangle. And I hope the poly-relationship thing gets shot down too. That's such a stupid theory in my opinion anyway (so bad, please no). Let's just phase away from Tamlin and straight into the Night Court.
And you DISCOVER something NEW....... Oh man, I'm gonna remember this. Oh gosh, this ship seems so obvious now.
Anyway, my current crack-pot theory about the "Fury" part of ACOMAF is (and assuming that this is referencing greek mythology furies, because I just think that's awesome) that they're what the Night Court calls their elite warriors. Or something.
I was also thinking of situations that would cause Feyre to break up with Tam: what if one of her sisters gets abducted by someone and she asks Tam to help but either a) he refuses for some reason or b) he insists that she stay home and he go. I feel like that would be the line in the sand for her.
I think there will be a lot of tension between them at first. He will see how different Feyre is after coming home from night court and how a part of her belongs there. I'm expecting Feyre to like night court a lot more than she expects. I'm guessing that Rhys wants to acknowledge the bond with Feyre but will not let that happen because of all the things that are happening. But I'm expecting him to but into Feyre's relationship with Tamlin because he hates Tamlin. I expect there to be a slight (well-done) love triangle in which Tamlin and Feyre have problems and Feyre turns to Rhys. My guess is the real Rhys and Feyre romance will not begin until Tam and Feyre break up.
So here's what I think will happen:
1-Feyre Kidnapped to night court: Rhys sneaky, Feyre angry, Tamlin angry
2-Feyre returned to spring court (first time): Rhys sneaky, Feyre annoyed at Rhys (he probably chose the worst possible moment to return her), Tamlin very angry at Rhys
3-Feyre at spring court (off-and-on after she spends time at night court): Rhys sneaky, Feyre disillusioned with Tamlin, Feyre slightly interested in Rhys but feels guilty about it, Tamlin angry at Rhys, Tamlin unsure about Feyre
4-Feyre revealed to have bond with Rhys: Rhys sneaky (and a jerk), Feyre shocked and confused (wants to be with Tamlin), Tamlin sad (and angry), also Lucien is probably laughing somewhere in a corner.
Alyana wrote: "Olya wrote: "So to be less annoying I'm just going to answer all questions in one thread.1) Will Tamlin let Feyre go or fight for her?- Honestly? I think BEFORE he finds out about the bond he'll ..."
Hey I thought of that too! That if we are to have furies then they'll come from the night court. Furies avenge death of family members that were unfair or unjust. So maybe they are the avengers and protectors of the night court. Sarah could make a little spin on the original and make the night court this tight community. We'll see!
Yeah that's the point. She could have used his help, support, anything. She almost lost her mind completely and thanks to Rhysand, that didn't happen. I don't want to say that he doesn't care about her, but he doesn't love her either. Unless he is just stupid and reckless. I mean we know that he has problems with his temper. His claws come out. He's very temperamental. And that could extend just to his thinking in daily life. But somehow I'm still on board that we don't know Tamlin yet. That we haven't seen him as a high fae--yet. The curse subdued him. But the fact that they were in such danger and that there was a very high chance of Feyre being dead the next day (and him KNOWING), that instead of saying goodbye he wanted to have a quickie for the last time. That is not love and I don't care what kind of relationships there are. If you love someone and they're dying, you say goodbye.
And I don't think that Sarah would ever make him a villain just like that. Too easy. He would always help her family because he knows she loves them. She'll either break it off because she sees how much she changed, or she sees how much the lifting of the curse changed him. I think that despite her always just wanting to protect to her family and not giving a damn about others (survival first), she will go to war with Hybern for the humans. And maybe Tamlin won't go. We know he killed humans (which I'm sure we will find out). He said that he always fight for freedom, but we also know that he has a selfish streak. Did he fight for humans at all? I don't remember. Just that he was a brutal war band leader.
This is me reading Throne of Glass right now: no love triangle, no love triangle, no love triangle, no love triangle. Truthfully I don't care enough for either right now to pick between the two guys. I need more time and I just don't want Sarah to do the same with ACOMAF and the third book.
CatcherR wrote: "I think there will be a lot of tension between them at first. He will see how different Feyre is after coming home from night court and how a part of her belongs there. I'm expecting Feyre to like ..."Agreed! Although I HOPE it won't be like that exactly (bottom part). It's a very obvious and predictable plot that has been used over and over in different stories. I want Sarah to kick us in the stomach with something new or fresh. Because that in essence is a love triangle without the angst. Sarah said there will be no love triangle, and she is good with writing in a modern view of things.
I would like to see Rhysand and Feyre be friends, no angst, add the chemistry lol. And I'd like to see that throughout the book with this intensity. And I don't want Rhysand to tell her about the bond. And if I can guess his character-- he won't. Rhysand never hid the fact that he thinks about his future, and he said that he wanted his offspring to remember him doing something good. But he is a very careful and calculating individual-- the exact opposite of Tamlin. Tamlin's like I love you so there you go. Let's get this show on the road! Even if he knows about the mate bond, he knows Feyre. And once he comes to terms with it, he'll start another game--with Tamlin. And while I do see dances and maybe a kiss towards the end? I don't think it'll move beyond that. And as for Feyre, I think she will refuse to actually think about Rhysand for most of the book. She's going to be facing her demons, thinking about her relationship with Tamlin, but I think she'll just refuse to acknowledge Rhysand because, well, it's RHYSAND. She won't be able to help it of course, but only after time will she come to accept it. Basically she will never have the choice because she won't think about choosing. I think if she breaks it off with Tamlin it'll be because they aren't compatible, not because it's for Rhysand. That is what I think Sarah plans to do along the lines of. It's all about growth and development for Feyre right now.
I feel like there's a lot of ways a falling apart relationship between Tam and Feyre can go. Here's my prediction. In the beginning, I think one of two things will happen. 1) Feyre will be closed off and not wanting to talk about what happened under the mountain. She'll struggle to forgive herself and move on. Tamlin will try to help her move past it all--and he'll fail. Thus we'll see this disconnect between them. We already saw it forming at the end of ACOTAR.
Or 2) Feyre will put on such a good facade that Tamlin WON'T notice how broken she is on the inside. But when she goes to the night court, Rhys will notice and call her out.
Either way, I think Rhysand will be the one to help Feyre move on from it. I think Tamlin will try, when he realizes she's not okay, but she'll continue to keep that wall up with him and thus he won't be able to help her.
This alone will create a bit of tension between Tamlin and Feyre.
Then we have the plot. My theory here is Feyre will grow attached to the Night Court--to the people, to the way of life, etc. We know Feyre ultimately is going to want to protect the humans. So whichever court supports this, she's going to side with. I don't think Tamlin would choose not to defend the humans, but he may think his court has lost too many lives recently to risk more loss and thus try to stay out of the conflict.
Maybe Rhysand wants to go after Hybern and Feyre agrees. Or maybe she just agrees with his approach vs Tamlin's.
These are just examples of course, but long story short I do think political stances will potentially draw a wedge deeper between Feyre and Tamlin.
Random, but I mentioned this before but what if Nesta not being under glamour has nothing to do with potential Fae blood, but simply Tamlin chose NOT to glamour her? He didn't seem to have a high opinion of her family to begin with and maybe he didn't glamour Nesta as a punishment. Or in case something bad happened and Feyre had to return.He's a High Lord. I think the only reason glamour wouldn't work on Nesta was because he simply didn't glamour her.
WinterRose wrote: "I feel like there's a lot of ways a falling apart relationship between Tam and Feyre can go. Here's my prediction. In the beginning, I think one of two things will happen. 1) Feyre will be closed..."
THIS. My thoughts exactly. And I actually like the second point. She puts up a good facade, and maybe Tamlin will sense something is wrong, But either she'll quickly build that wall again or he will just assume it's temporary and let her mourn. Rhysand being who he is, will get her out of it. And it's funny because I imagine her starting to roam night court but at first ignoring him because she's mad. However she falls in love with the court, learns to read, makes friends. Spends time in the library. I could see that beauty and the beast theme play out honestly. And dear God please let Rhysand have sassy court members.
And yes. I REALLY think that Tamlin will somehow refuse something important politically and I like your thinking that he will just refuse to risk his court against Hybern in some battle or other scheme. And this is where I think Rhysand will be like HELL YES just because he's Rhysand and he wants to build a name for himself again. Plus the friendship, can't forget that lol.
Hmmm... interesting. Come to think of it, Nesta and Feyre are very like. They are both stubborn as hell. So why didn't Nesta get glamoured? Maybe just maybe Tamlin did leave her without the glamour for one reason or another. I just don't see Nesta stronger than Feyre. And if Feyre couldn't resist his compulsion than how could she? Very good point. Assuming the fae blood line would be too easy. Everyone would assume that. But what if Sarah made it a little more sinister?
Feyre being a maiden.- I can't even think about that. What does that entail anyways and I never imagined her participating.Fun fact. Persephone's other name is Kore--which means "the maiden." ;)
Also I noticed something interesting when I was reading one of the Throne of Glass books, Heir of Fire. This is when Celaena is examining nine iron figurines:
Celaena quickly looked away from the two females in the center--one crowned with a star and armed with a bow and quiver
ToG also talks about Deanna, the Goddess of the Moon and known as Lady of the Hunt. I'm not sure if this figurine is Deanna, but the similarities are uncanny. It also mentions Deanna has a rival sister, Mala, who is the Goddess of Sun.
Ironic, yes?
Here's some pictures of Deanna on her board:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
Maybe Feyre isn't Deanna, but wouldn't that be a nice twist? :P The ToG books feel more futuristic than ACOTAR, so I was thinking already that ACOTAR takes place years before ToG. We know they're the same universe and Maas said technically you could open a portal and travel from one world to the other.
WinterRose wrote: "Feyre being a maiden.- I can't even think about that. What does that entail anyways and I never imagined her participating.Fun fact. Persephone's other name is Kore--which means "the maiden." ;)
..."
That. is. going.to. KILL. me. How the heck am I? What am I supposed to even think? Do? Ahhh! I can't think about that plot. What will happen. I just can't.
Oy I did not know that about ToG. Does that mean humans win the battle against Fae? Because where I'm reading, they are pretty much gone. I don't want the fae to be destroyed :(. I just wanted a treaty in the end. But then since it's such a long series of course this won't be the case. Right? RIGHT? It's hard to imagine the fae weak.
Well, the world of ToG and ACOTAR are in the same universe, but not the same like...world. lol There's portals in ToG where you can go to different world's and Maas explained that one could technically go into Prythian from Erilea. I'm not sure if any of the plot stuff is connected, but I was thinking it would be really amazing if Feyre ended up becoming some huge legend. How far are you into the ToG books?
I totally agree with everything Laura said! That is how I see the romantic aspect of the book going. I think Rhys and Feyre will get together some time in the book and have some steamytimes. The book is new adult so I think there will be more than kissing involved. Especially, since Maas said that this book would have more of it involved.
I'll admit that I do like Tamlin a lot. Its not fair to hate or dislike a character just because you don't ship them with the MC. I would ship them...if there was no Rhys. But I still like him a lot.
If you like the idea of soulmates not picking each other, I would recommend trying the Vampire Diaries (tv show version). You might like it.
Slightly related:
I believe that the first person you fall in love with is not necessarily the person you will be with through all points in your life. Different people have different paths in life and in books all together, couples who would not survive in real life are forced together in books. In Robbin Hobb's books, the character (who is fifty years old) stays with the girl he hung out with when he was five. Cute, yes. Practical, no. I love stories with multiple love interests for that very reason. The verisimilitude. Unfortunately, (and maybe even fortunately) this involves a love triangle. I don't mind them if the love interest matches the character growth and its not obvious who she will choose in the end (especially if it the first love interest).
So, all in all, I love the choices--not the 'angsty' triangle. When people groan about love triangles, I can't help but applaud in favor of them. So yes, it sucks. But if done well, it can be awesome.
Wondering why Rhysand would do what he did for Feyre at the end, why she begged Amarantha to stop hurting him, what actually happened Under the Mountain between them, after all, he did see them kissing. We never got to know if he understood what was going on. Agreed. Well, I do think he likely figured Rhys knew Amarantha was coming and that's why he was kissing her. But of course that doesn't mean he was happy about it. However, the end was where all masks fell off so to say and I think Tamlin will question that. When Rhysand was the one shouting Feyre's name like he cared.
I don't think Rhys is in anyway planning to tell Feyre about the bond
I hope he doesn't. I don't want him to be THAT guy--the "other" guy who is constantly trying to make the girl like him more than the one she's with. I hope he doesn't tell her and when she finally realizes it, he can give that knowing smile and say "I know."
As far as predictable, at this point it's predictable for Feyre to be mated with Tamlin OR Rhys. Even more predictable and convenient if it's Tamlin. The reason I'm more for it being Rhys is not only their dynamic, but because of where they start off--as enemies. That's more interesting to me than the guy you already love just happens to be your mate, too. Blah no thanks.
did any of you read Truthwitch. What did you think
I started it. Not crazy about the writing style. :/
I love stories with multiple love interests for that very reason.I agree. I saw someone complaining that heroines shouldn't have more than one love interest. lol Like do you apply this logic to your real life, too?? You only date one person forever? Yeah okay.
The issue obviously is most trilogies don't span years, and most people date more than one person over years. So we get a love triangle. My personal preference is when some time can span between relationships but most trilogies unfortunately don't let more than a year pass.
Now I actually like how Maas has handled the relationships in ToG. SLIGHT SPOILERS AHEAD. I'm one of those people that adored Celaena with Sam, then adored her with Chaol, and now with Rowan. To me, I can see why each of these guys were right for her AT THE TIME. Timing is everything and I think people fail to realize that the person you want at 15 is not who you want at 18, for example. As we change and grow, we want different things in a partner.
If you like the idea of soulmates not picking each othersFor me, I'm on the fence. On one hand, I do prefer romances where there is choice. I don't like author's manipulating choice. But on the other, the mate bond is very interesting to me and I'd like to see it. And if we're going to get mates, what's better than between two people that essentially didn't start off so hot?
Even so though, what's important is that Rhys and Feyre have already established SOMETHING. It won't be insta-love because the last 30% of the book or so focused heavily on their relationship. I'd be more annoyed if they turn out mates and that last bit of development between them wasn't there. But as it is, Tamlin literally got sidelined and was practically non-existent for the most emotionally, mentally and physically straining aspect of Feyre's journey. But because Maas made Rhys experience this all with Feyre more than anyone else, I think it will work if they turn out to be mates. The groundwork for a potential relationship is already there.
WinterRose wrote: "Well, the world of ToG and ACOTAR are in the same universe, but not the same like...world. lol There's portals in ToG where you can go to different world's and Maas explained that one could technic..."Oh ok makes sense! I'm almost done with the first one. Things really started to pick up finally! I think because it was Sarah's first book everything was just so...anticlimactic. But now that I'm reading it towards the end I see that it'll get better! I would love Feyre to become a legend, a goddess like fae in her own right.
Laura wrote: "I think Feyre will continue to distance herself from Tamlin, because he won't be able to understand and help her with the inner struggle and get overthe things that happened Under the Mountain. Sh..."
Love the theories! I also think she will find out about the bond herself. But the one thing I don't see Tamlin doing is letting this go. He strikes me as being very possessive. He was VERY angry when he saw the tattoo on her. I think when Rhys arrives for her he'll get even angrier. I don't know what he'll do but I think he will start acting jealous and a little possessive. Just because he's a beast and that's his nature.
I THINK he got it when Rhysand kissed her and then he saw her walk out with the smudges. He can't possibly be THAT stupid. And if he didn't he would have come after Rhysand in the end. Territorial issues. But of course he's not happy with it and he wants to know why Feyre bothered defending him and all. Wonder what she will say.
CatcherR wrote: "I totally agree with everything Laura said! That is how I see the romantic aspect of the book going. I think Rhys and Feyre will get together some time in the book and have some steamytimes. The ..."
Wait, what will be more involved? Steamy scenes?
Oh God.
A part of me is excited but then at the same time I don't want things to go too fast! However the book is lengthy so I have faith that whatever Sarah does, she'll do it well. I'm betting many TRULY steamy scenes will be with Rhys and Feyre, even though the sexual ones will be with Tamlin. I'll tolerate them lol. I don't know exactly how I feel about Tamlin. I never warmed up to him from the start. I don't trust him yet. But I do think he has his nice moments and that I don't want him dead lol. That's the best I can do.
And I agree with WinterRose that ending up with either Tamlin or Rhysand will be predictable. It is up to Sarah and how she writes this.
off topic: Have any of you guys read Deathless? I'm really enjoying it! The writing is magical. Highly recommend for that alone.
I don't know what he'll do but I think he will start acting jealous and a little possessive. Just because he's a beast and that's his nature.I can see him reacting this way for sure. Though I can also see him being respectful of mate bonds since it's such an ancient and rare thing. So really, I won't be surprised either way--if he steps back or goes into a fit of rage.
I don't know exactly how I feel about Tamlin.
It's taken me a long time to figure out what it is about Tamlin that leaves me more detached than I'd like. Personality wise, I like the angry suppressed characters. I didn't mind the romance, even. But I think what makes me more attached to Rhys (and even Lucien) is that when the book REALLY starts to get interesting, Tamlin isn't part of that. He becomes a statue that last 30% or so. The rest of the characters...we see them suffer and develop and grow. We see Lucien nearly killed, see his brother's torment him, and know he was beaten for helping Feyre. We see Rhys get called a whore, be forced to kill and torture, and watch his relationship with Feyre grow. We see Feyre go through hell. And Tamlin...we see a statue.
While I know he didn't have too many options--though seriously he could have sent Feyre a message through Lucien anything positive to keep her spirits up--the end result is that I don't feel as emotionally gripped by his character as I do the others.
So I don't love him or hate him. I like him--I just like the other's much, much more. He kind of pales in comparison for me.
Tamlin had to watch the horror's under the mountain. But Feyre and Rhys (and to some degree Lucien) had to live the horror's. That's where I think we'll see that disconnect between Feyre and Tam.
I actually hope that Amren is not his sister. I have read a few books in which the main love interest gives up their throne for love. Having a sister (a convenient successor) would make the whole scenario more likely. Especially fantasy ones like ACOTAR that have the whole power and love tropes going on. Not cool with that at all.
I would rather she become Feyre's new buddy. Lucien has a strong allegiance to Tamlin. So does Alis. Feyre has no one for 'herself' really. So, I hope that she has someone crazy to show her how to have a good time without tattling off to the nearest high lord.
Laura wrote: "Tamlin is the current main love interest, and let's not pretend Rhys isn't going to be one too. So, of course it's predictable that Feyre will end up with one of them. What is not predictable is HO..."I feel like Rhys might be an only child, but that's just my hunch. I just get the feeling that he's been groomed or trained to be High Lord, not like Tamlin who never wanted or expected to become a High Lord. Or maybe if he does have a sibling (or siblings) then it was obvious that he would be High Lord. I still think it'd be pretty entertaining to see what kind of brother he is.
WinterRose wrote: "The rest of the characters...we see them suffer and develop and grow. We see Lucien nearly killed, see his brother's torment him, and know he was beaten for helping Feyre. We see Rhys get called a whore, be forced to kill and torture, and watch his relationship with Feyre grow. We see Feyre go through hell. And Tamlin...we see a statue."
Exactly! After digesting the events of the book I realized that I loved Tamlin and Feyre's relationship because I thought that the way it developed and presented was "adorable". But, you know, in light of the curse I find myself second guessing everything. I can't help it since I'm eternally scarred by the Darkling from the Grisha Trilogy. I'm really looking forward to seeing more character development and exposure for Tamlin in ACOMAF.
Olya wrote: "A part of me is excited but then at the same time I don't want things to go too fast! "
Well, the book is confirmed 600+ pages (can't remember the exact number) so I'm not worried about things happening too fast. I actually hope there aren't any slow parts, like in ACOTAR when Feyre found out that her family is being taken care of and they don't even know she was abducted so she stops actively searching for info.
WinterRose wrote: " But because Maas made Rhys experience this all with Feyre more than anyone else, I think it will work if they turn out to be mates. The groundwork for a potential relationship is already there. "
This is a very good point. For many of the readers it's believable for us (even now though we haven't even read ACOMAF) to think that Rhys and Feyre might be mates because of the last 30% of the book, when Tamlin wasn't there and most of the character interaction was between Rhys and Feyre. I also agree with what you said earlier about certain relationships working at certain stages of your life. At the beginning of the book Feyre was only thinking of survival and taking care of her family, and the only time she ever let herself go from that responsibility was when she met Isaac to occasionally....you know. She never let herself be happy, or even envision being happy/a better future. With Tamlin she was able to experience life without having to worry about taking care of someone. She feels so much happiness at once, probably the most in her entire life. Of course she fell in love with Tamlin. But now, after the events Under the Mountain, she's definitely different from before. I think the potential pit of their relationship will be Feyre's unwillingness to talk about her demons. It was even noted in both versions of the summary of ACOMAF that a significant part of the plot will be focused on Feyre trying to move on.
WinterRose wrote: " But on the other, the mate bond is very interesting to me and I'd like to see it. And if we're going to get mates, what's better than between two people that essentially didn't start off so hot?"Oh my gosh. The enemies to friends to lovers trope is. my. kryptonite!!!!!!! It ALWAYS gets me.
WinterRose wrote: " I don't want him to be THAT guy--the "other" guy who is constantly trying to make the girl like him more than the one she's with. I hope he doesn't tell her and when she finally realizes it, he can give that knowing smile and say "I know."
You're really killing me here. I agree, I'm thinking right now that Rhys will go either into denial/avoidal mode or he'll accept it but keep it to himself.
Laura wrote: "I don't think Rhys is in anyway planning to tell Feyre about the bond. I think SHE will find out by herself. She will start to notice there is something supernatural between them, think it's just the tattoo at first, but as the bond develops, she will start to doubt that too."
This is even better to be honest. I like the idea of finding more about mating from a mated couple, like maybe Cassian and Mor? It's funny that we don't even know if that's a confirmed thing (at least I don't know if it is)
What is not predictable is HOW that's going to happen and what will compel her to make whatever decision she makes at the end. Exactly. The "how" makes all the difference. To some extent the reader should be able to see plot points coming--otherwise if it's completely random, that's not good writing. We all knew Amarantha would be defeated--it was the HOW that made the story.
I have read a few books in which the main love interest gives up their throne for love
I definitely can't see Rhysand doing that, haha. I don't see Feyre wanting him to either. I think she'll find herself fitting into a power and leader role.
Maas is a huge fan of Avatar the Last Airbender, which features a very interesting brother/sister dynamic--younger sister wants his throne. So I wouldn't be surprised if Maas did that here, and I honestly wouldn't be opposed to it though I do want Feyre and Amren to be friends. Like mentioned, she doesn't have any.
I can't help it since I'm eternally scarred by the Darkling from the Grisha Trilogy
Omg I can't talk about that without seeing red, lol. Forever angry at the turn of events in that series. Darkling aside, Alina losing her power was just too much NOOOO for me. But yes, I want more development from Tamlin in this book. We didn't really get much development from him.
You know, I wonder if Tamlin didn't like humans when Amarantha cursed him. Because to me, that makes more sense. If a guy who hated humans had to make one (that hated Fae) fall in love with him...that's challenging. More challenging than if Tamlin didn't mind humans. Considering he was trying to insult her with his comment about sleeping with a human before her, I think there was a time when in fact, he DIDN'T like them. Actually in the beginning of ACOTAR he and Lucien through a few human insults at Feyre.
I agree with everything you said about Feyre's feelings for Isaac, Tam, and then Rhys. It obviously shows what she wanted/needed at those various stages of her life.
I don't know why, but I get this feeling Mor will try to talk Cassian into taking Rhysand's place--say Cassian is better fit to rule. Especially if they're brother's. If the night court is as scheming as their reputation says, than I think we can expect some court intrigue and potential betrayers among the court.
If Amren is Rhys's sister...and the Hybern theory is true...what if she is secretly daddy's little girl? That would be a really interesting plot twist. I don't think that Rhys would give up his high lord powers...Sarah likes to make her main characters...successful and powerful. I am so not okay with Rhys giving anything up. Or turning into a human. Nope. I like to think that you can have both romance and a successful life. The last series finale I read was from the Angelfall series, so (if you read the last book) you can see where I am coming from.
I think that Cassian and Mor will be a foil couple to Rhys and Feyre. Do you think that Feyre would ever hook up with someone other than Tamlin if they broke up? As in, one-night-standish stuff? I have never seen a YA heroine do that. But since this is New Adult...
I doubt that they will go there, but if they do I would be happy that they are breaking the stereotype of 'one night stands are only for heroic men and (slutty) side female characters'. Oh, but the hate she would get.
I think there might be some truth to the reputation, but not the way we expect. Like with Rhys.That's what me and Rose were talking about a while back, about how there's always something second to the story being told and is set to make you question everything. Things said by Tamlin, Lucien, Amarantha and her court compels you to eat up every word like gospel, but I'm pretty sure a lot of what we've learned about Prythian and the fae world has its flipside and there's a lot we still don't know. Just like the suggestive bad reputation of the Night Court.
I feel like perhaps most of the negative thoughts are associated with Rhysand's powers and how fae have seen him use those powers and harm others because of Amarantha's demands and how he has the title of being her whore. All those things must add to the people thinking if Rhysand is like this, his entire court must be too.
Also I say this because it feels like, as Laura said, Night Court does seem secluded and isolated and perhaps doesn't mingle with others either.
I wonder how they will feel when Feyre comes there. I wonder if Rhysand has told the people of his court or any close friends/siblings of how he will bring this human-turned-Fae to their court because of a bond/promise she made to him. I have a funny thought that considering how he is, he'll probably just surprise everyone with Feyre coming to the Night Court.
It'll be refreshing to see everything Feyre has learned about the Night Court being just the opposite of what everyone else claims.
and I think someone mentioned this earlier on but I too hope the new characters of the Night Court will all have that dark, sexy, fun allure that Rhys has. I remember seeing an interview with Maas and what to expect for ACOMAF and she said there are going to be lots of training scenes- shirtless, training scenes, lol. So, I'm guessing Rhys and/or his companions will encourage and teach Feyre how to fight and use her powers.
Plus- with the wings images associated with Feyre on the pinterest board, it's kind of inevitable that she will learn to fly, and I hope Rhys is there to guide her for that!
What, what? Shirtless Rhys scenes? Oh my gosh. Was not expecting that at all. So excited for the next book. I feel as if Feyre might finally get wings in the next book. I'm wondering when her powers will start to show up. And how exactly they will show up. Which interview did you get the tid bit about the training sessions from? (I thought I had gone through a majority of them, but I guess not.)
I'm guessing that Night Court is secluded and lonely. However, I feel as if it will be more populated and lively than most of the other courts, given that Rhys's court was mostly spared.
It's this interview where she mentions the shirtless scenes. She starts talking about Rhys at the 3:00 min mark and what to expect in book 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miDgN...
I can't remember where she mentioned the training scenes but it was a few months back! If I find it I will link you.
And I agree with it being secluded and lonely- especially considering its all the way out in the mountains. And I also like to think TNC is a lot more populated too since in the cover we see an ancient looking cityscape behind Feyre.
Thanks for the link! I'd love to hear the one about the training one too. Let me know if you ever find it. From what SJM has hinted at, I would say that Night Court looks like ancient greece. She also said that the background of the cover was a spoiler. So night court?
Another thing to note is that Feyre's character arc is the basis of the second book. On SJM's old website, she mentioned how the second book was based on it...even before the hades and persephone stuff. Rhys came later. I'm excited to see Feyre grow in book 2. Hopefully, she won't be as clueless as she was in the first book.
WinterRose wrote: “Exactly. The "how" makes all the difference. To some extent the reader should be able to see plot points coming--otherwise if it's completely random, that's not good writing. We all knew Amarantha would be defeated--it was the HOW that made the story.”Exactly! I know it’s likely that Rhys and Feyre are mates, but we’re still here throwing around theories as to how this could be revealed, what are the reactions of the characters, etc. In my opinion, not knowing and getting to formulate theories is half the fun.
CatcherR wrote: “Do you think that Feyre would ever hook up with someone other than Tamlin if they broke up? As in, one-night-standish stuff? I have never seen a YA heroine do that. “
Hooooooot damn. I would actually like that. That would completely obliterate my soul in a good way. I wouldn’t hate on Feyre because I think that a grown woman can do whatever she wants with her body, but I can see fans of the book going ballistic. Oh gosh the hate would be endless….But it’s not like she’s cheating. Plus a one night stand with Rhys, is that even possible? Haha, that’s a trap.
Laura wrote: “ There were many rumors and everybody hated him because he was a bastard and all the things people used to say about him, but in the end it was not what we were thinking and things were a lot more complicated than what people were saying.”
I agree with what you're saying here. Remember when Feyre was listening to the music in her cell Under the Mountain? Here’s the quote:
“Up and up, building to a palace in the sky, a hall of alabaster and moonstone, where all that was lovely and kind and fantastic dwelled in peace.”
I would not be surprised if the Night Court ends up being a lot nicer than we and Feyre were led to believe.
Aqsa wrote: “I wonder how they will feel when Feyre comes there. I wonder if Rhysand has told the people of his court or any close friends/siblings of how he will bring this human-turned-Fae to their court because of a bond/promise she made to him.”
Well I was thinking if Feyre and he are mated that he may have told a few of his closest and trusted friends, but does he have friends? Does he trust anyone? Maybe.
CatcherR wrote: “ I'm excited to see Feyre grow in book 2. Hopefully, she won't be as clueless as she was in the first book.”
I’m excited for her to learn how to read! If Rhys is the one to teach her how to read I may combust into flames.
Based on the map, you can see how secluded it is for sure. From what I remember reading, one of the reason's the Night Court is feared is because of the things that live there. Tamlin also mentions something about him not enforcing rank and that the night court has their own customs. My guess is there's a certain structure the night court enforces.And yes, I also remember Sarah said book 2 could have been called A Court of Abs and Pecks because of so many shirtless guys, haha.
I would not be surprised if the Night Court ends up being a lot nicer than we and Feyre were led to believe.
I think the high fae may not be so awful, but I think the night court will be filled with very dangerous creatures.
I'm so excited to meet the new characters. I haven't seen any new Spring characters added to the board. I think the beginning we'll see Feyre spending time in Spring, then that week in Night, but I think the majority will end up being in the night court.
600+ pages though. It's basically the size of Queen of Shadows. I'm so stoked. I will have no self control though--I'll have to flip to the end and get an idea of Rhys and Feyre become a thing, haha.
WinterRose wrote: "I don't know what he'll do but I think he will start acting jealous and a little possessive. Just because he's a beast and that's his nature.I can see him reacting this way for sure. Though I can..."
Yep! I think that before he knows about the bond, he'll be possessive. But I do think that once he knows they're mates, he'll be respectful. I completely see that side of him.
See, Sarah writes everything with purpose. Lots of foreshadowing and all. The point in this book is this: You learn pain, you heal, you grow. Feyre, Rhysand, and Lucien all showed this. But Tamlin did know pain as well. So either he didn't grow or he was truly worse from the start. Feyre went through hell and everyone suffered but him. Because he chose not to. Even though, like you said, even a massage would have helped her. That right there makes me err on the trust. After all, a person's true character shows when things go bad, not when they're all sunshine and butterflies. I think the next book will either redeem him or damn him in terms of his personality.
WinterRose wrote: "I don't know why, but I get this feeling Mor will try to talk Cassian into taking Rhysand's place--say Cassian is better fit to rule. Especially if they're brother's. If the night court is as schem..."Oh Jesus. I just realized... we have never seen normal fae court. Just Tamlin's, which wasn't really a fae court at all. I'm not used to sibling rivalry here. I have a feeling I'm going to feel a lot worse for Rhysand soon. :(
I wish he would have just one nice sibling for crying out loud. Give the man something good! (besides Feyre *cough*)
And yessss I hated what the author did to the Darkling. In fact. I wanted to gut Mal from the first book. And it's interesting but you could already see that the author really favored the orphan boy and girl story.
I do think that Tamlin really did hate humans. And notice how Tamlin and Lucien acted around her. Tamlin really did make her feel low, and it took a lot of will to actually be nice to her. Feyre is perceptive. She saw the truth. She killed his friend and now he had to wait on her hand and foot. That must have been insulting.
Aqsa wrote: "I think there might be some truth to the reputation, but not the way we expect. Like with Rhys.That's what me and Rose were talking about a while back, about how there's always something second t..."
*hyperventilating* Sarah have mercy on my poor soul
Laura wrote: "If the night court is as scheming as their reputation says, than I think we can expect some court intrigue and potential betrayers among the court.
That's just the thing. I think we will find out..."
You see this is what I thought too but then I was being REALLY hopeful on that. i didn't think that the political problems could stem from the night court. Apart from a couple people maximum. I was hoping for the court to be misunderstood just like Rhysand. So hoping your theory stands!
LOL @ a one night stand with Rhysand being a trap. Uh yeah. To say the least. I think that too. Feyre saw razor sharp teeth and all kinds of creatures there on the mural. So I think other fae stay away from that just on principal. It kinda makes Rhysand even more badass. He controls those things. Plus was I the only one who felt bad for the Suriel? I like that Feyre set him free.
I would find it funny if Rhysand has friends or siblings that when they see him bantering and arguing with Feyre they somehow get that there is some kind of bond there or that Rhys is interested. And everyone knows except Feyre LOL. She is very stubborn about her feelings so I see her just not acknowledging it. And I do see night court fae training her. And if Rhysand teachers her to read? I'm 10000% DONE.
Rhys basically converses with everyone using insults. The only difference is that with Feyre she can read him as well. She tends to call him out on his actions. In future books, she may be able to keep up with his tangled webs. From what we know about the second book, I think she will be able to keep up with Rhys. Especially because Maas said that Feyre will find out all of his secrets.
Especially because Maas said that Feyre will find out all of Rhys's secrets. Did Maas really say that!? AHHH IM SO EXCITED.
WinterRose wrote: "I'm so stoked. I will have no self control though--I'll have to flip to the end and get an idea of Rhys and Feyre become a thing, haha. "Saaaaame.
Also this looks like what Feyre could have been wearing Under the Mountain (except with paint all over her skin of course): http://skaodi.tumblr.com/post/1381671...
The fact that ACOMAF is a re-telling of the Hades and Persephone myth has got me researching all about them. I actually found this really good analysis of the original Homeric hymn: http://kata-chthonia.com/post/6990338...So basically, if Feyre is going to play the Persephone role in the next book I am super excited.
"Persephone features prominently after the myth, even more so than her husband. When Odysseus speak with the rulers of the Underworld, he speaks to Persephone. As does Orpheus, and Herakles, and Psyche, and others. In fact, Pirithous, the one “hero” who doesn’t give Persephone respect and instead tries to carry her away from her realm like a powerless little girl, never makes it out of the Underworld alive."
I can totally envision Feyre becoming a badass High Lady of the Night Court. (Yeeeeeeees)
I'm reading these types of things lately to try and get a feel for what to expect of Rhys and Feyre's relationship in the next book. ACOTAR was pretty faithful to its original myths and lore (the original Beauty and the Beast, East of the Sun West of the Moon, and Tam Lin) so I'm expecting something along the lines with ACOMAF too.
Here's another on Persephone: http://kata-chthonia.com/post/6972057...
"Sorry I took this as an opportunity to get on my soap box about her, but like you, I dislike the idea of Persephone being a weak character. She certainly wasn’t that way to the Greeks. :)"
I agree with this so much.
I think it was easier for Celaena to get over her first two love interests because she broke up with them herself (not the other way around and for Dorian, she already knew). Also, she was not with Sam for that long. She mourns him as a very close lifelong friend and then romantic interest. The last one is currently canon and budding, so I can't say too much about that. To me, the relationships are a side-piece to the overall fantasy plot it TOG. More
I know girls who will get into relationships days after a breakup and continue this cycle.
I don't think any of the relationships were necessarily 'epics', but cute and romanticized versions of real-life pacing.
I'm so excited for Rhys and Feyre. I don't mind any love triangle angst because some of it might actually be exciting in the beginning. I doubt that it will read like a PNR (which are extremely frustrating!) triangle. I think the angst will be the fun type, not the repetitive type. My guess is Feyre will probably by the end of the first part, House of Beasts.
Laura wrote: "Lol I don't see Rhys begging for anyones affection or attention, no matter how much he wants it."I don't think that Rhys has any problem getting anyone's attention whether he wants it or not, lol.
At the same time there is evidence to doubt if Feyres feelings are actual love or infatuation, I don't want to doubt them after everything she did Under the Mountain. She did it not just for Tamlin, but mainly because of him.
I think she went back because she felt guilty for not being able to help them during the "blight" (as they called it before). Before hearing about Amarantha she returned to Prythian because she was worried about Tamlin, but after hearing about the curse she felt guilty because she "had damned each and every person on this estate, damned Prythian itself". So it's not right to say she went through the trials JUST for Tamlin, she did it to free Prythian too.
And it really makes me simmer when a good portion of the ACOTAR fandom thinks that if Feyre ends up with Rhys in the end then everything that happened Under the Mountain would go to waste. Ok but how is saving hundreds of thousands of lives from enslavement and torture a waste??? People were suffering and dying under Amarantha's rule and she saved them from that. None of that would go to waste AT ALL.
And honestly I think that the feeling Feyre had for Tamlin were a result of her overload of happiness at the time, not having to worry about taking care of anyone, and Tamlin's hot bod. I'm not sure if all this would result in "true love". It could, I'm just not sure anymore.
Feyre will probably finish things with Tamlin before starting them with Rhys and luckily with a gap between the two, in which she has time to spend with herself and to decide what she wants to do.
I'm going to weep from joy at Feyre's character development in the next book. With 600+ pages, I highly doubt all that is "angsty love triangle". I believe SJM when she says Feyre won't have to choose between Rhys and Tamlin. It would only cause a big outcry if it ends up not being true. Although, we're only assuming she meant no love triangle when she tweeted "Who said she'd have to choose? ;)" or something like that.
The bond happened because of the connection they already have. My theory is that the bond will develop as their feelings do, not the contrary.
I think that the bond they have (if its mating) will grow in intensity if they try to go against it. I think that it was confirmed by SJM that sometimes mate bonds happen right away or they could take time. I think your theory is pretty viable.
I think she will fit into his position, not change it. Which is already a lot different from Tamlin, who hates to involve and even talk to Feyre about his High Lord business. And she will want to be involved, that's for sure.
Well Persephone became Queen of the Underworld on equal footing to her husband, Hades, in the original hymn. Persephone herself even chose to rule with Hades for a portion of the year instead of live away from the Underworld forever (if you read the interpretation I posted earlier). I wouldn't be surprised if Feyre helps Rhys out. Those two need each other so badly emotionally. They just got wrecked by their experience Under the Mountain. I just want my babies to heal!
And I'm positive that Tamlin literally said somewhere in the book "I just want you to stay here and paint, where I know you'll be safe". So there's that.
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My theory is the first part will have a triangle and more Tamlin related stuff. The first part of the book is called 'house of beasts' which sound..."
I'm very on board with that. I don't want things to go fast and have all this angst so I like the direction Sarah is taking everything. I wonder how Feyre will find out about the bond and Tamlin and Lucien's reaction. Heck even Nesta's reaction lol.
And Alyana: So it sounds basically how Laura put it: each rite will go to different court locations depending on the seasons/elements. Fire Night is Spring's but I guess other courts are welcome to join.