Red Queen
discussion
Maven or Cal???
Yeah, they do...Hey, I'm starting to wonder what this post is supposed to be talking about: who Mare should end up with or which brother is a better character? It's a little vague.
Character wise there is no comparison Cal takes the win no doubt. He has been loyal, kind, strong and brave throughout the entire series. Maven has been cunning, scheming and mean. Granted a lot of this behavior stems from his mother abuse as we find out but we still don't know if his mind can be fixed.
unfortunately for maven fans I get the impression that maven will eventually die. perhaps it will be a heroic death where he does something good and sacrifices himself who knows.
I like both brothers for different reasons and I am really looking forward to reading about both them in the next book.
Its Mare who I find annoying, how can she break up with him for going after his birth right? if he didn't want it would be like he abandoned his kingdom wheres the point in that? So far Cal has fought alongside Reds in every turn and is probably their best hope in an equal world so I truly don't get her decision.
Katherine wrote: "Character wise there is no comparison Cal takes the win no doubt. He has been loyal, kind, strong and brave throughout the entire series. Maven has been cunning, scheming and mean. Granted a lot ..."
I think they aren't going to stay apart for long. You know main protagonists. They don't listen to realistic logic.
Honestly, it's more of an "I'm going to take a break from you" than an "I hate your guts for being so selfish" that Mare's going for. She's seen a lot of death, destruction, and ruin all stem from Maven's thirst for power. To keep his crown, he committed acts that are almost unspeakable. And after watching all of these disastrous events unfold because of a crown, Mare must be fed up with the Calore brothers fighting for it. Because Cal basically puts his crown above everything else, including Mare. She's sick of chasing after a guy that doesn't seem to put her first. She doesn't want to put a crown on her head, because that's just as cumbersome and caging as an iron collar.
So I hope against hope that with this new development we'll focus on the plot instead of the relationship drama. After all, we're going to wrap things up with the last book, right?
I love Maven so much. He was so genuine (irony) and pure when he first met Mare. He was reluctant to marry someone he didn't know, and was awkward and shy in the beginning. Even though that was an act and he's pretty horrible I can't help but feel protective towards him. Also Cal is trash.
I just can't stand Cal. I don't know why. He just represents every YA bad boy stereotype with his dumb smirks and his smug "You can do it, but I can do it better than you by a long shot" mindset. There were a lot of opportunities where Aveyard could have given him a personality that was bursting with originality, but after the second book, I had trouble understanding or relating to him. He was teeth-grindingly dull and there were several times he implied he would rather fight for a crown than for Mare. Even the Scarlet Guard was fed up with him worming his way into their center and acting like he owned the place, despite only being half-committed to the cause. Worse, the plot deviated from him and focused back on Mare. He was in four scenes tops in King's Cage, which didn't leave any time to improve how I feel about him.When I think about it, the only characters that I like and can relate to are Cameron, Farley, and Evangeline, which is sad. The rest I could care less about if they died.
Jam wrote: "I'm the only one who really loves Maven. Even if he doesn't end up with Mare I want him to have a great ending in the trilogy."I love Maven too. Sure some of the evil is just him, but his mother forced the rest into him. Everyone has evil inside them. I think that Maven still has a shot for redemption as long as he can will himself to do it. And I hope he does!
at this point what id like to know is what does Maven truly want? what is at the end of the game look like for him?
Team Maven. Cal is boring as fuck. Please, tell me something interesting about Cal and maybe I'll stop wanting to roll him over lol
Can I please please get a story about redemption and second chances?
#Team Maven
the only character i find interesting and worth making this series memorable
#Team Maven
the only character i find interesting and worth making this series memorable
#MAVEN
brother i find interesting
brother with the most potential and depth
brother i wish mare will choose in the end (dream ending maven redeemed, repentance, mare and maven quietly settles in some remote country side away from all the drama, let cal have the crown..mare needs someone who loves her and maven needs someone who's strong and not using him..a girl can dream)
brother that can make this series unique and refreshing
brother mare will not end up with..the author confirmed it somewhere the last I heard
#CAL
brother with whom mare will likely end up with as that's the easiest and the over used cliche of everything ya
brother who bored me from page one or whatever page he appeared on..
brother i find interesting
brother with the most potential and depth
brother i wish mare will choose in the end (dream ending maven redeemed, repentance, mare and maven quietly settles in some remote country side away from all the drama, let cal have the crown..mare needs someone who loves her and maven needs someone who's strong and not using him..a girl can dream)
brother that can make this series unique and refreshing
brother mare will not end up with..the author confirmed it somewhere the last I heard
#CAL
brother with whom mare will likely end up with as that's the easiest and the over used cliche of everything ya
brother who bored me from page one or whatever page he appeared on..
Mare ending up with Maven seems very unlikely. Given how abusive he has been towards her it would send a very creepy message to her fans and this series has not been written as a dark story where stuff like this happens. Its about wrong and right and ending discrimination so to make the symbol of the kingdoms revolution end up with the nations tyrant seems difficult. I still think Maven will die. Unless the writer comes up with a super amazing twist and extends the story to allow him to be healed where again he cnt be around Mare and Cal cz he has feelings for her and that would be weird considering they get back together which I mean come on wont they? at this point Mare can end up with stick I find myself pulled towards Evangeline from now on and I hope she has more POVs in the next book
Hypothetically, I feel Mare x Maven can still be pulled off just the writing needs to be exceptionally good. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the series like Naruto and Fairytail where Sasuke and Jellal both had a chance for redemption though in Sasuke's case it nearly costed him a decade of repentance. the writing wasn't flawless but I can appreciate what the mangaka were trying to convey. your will to make changes counts the most.
Though from what I can see, the series will most likely end up with Maven's death , easiest way out and the most predictable one too. of course, he'll have an epiphany near the end to placate the Maraven fandom as let's be honest, they comprise a substantial proportion of the fanbase. Another scenario like the user above me said will be him undergoing a period of healing where he sorts out how much he was manipulated and what he truly wants though I feel that's a lonely route when no one's by his side.
a super unexpected ending will be Mare ending up with Kilron, and ha, like that's gonna happen.
Though from what I can see, the series will most likely end up with Maven's death , easiest way out and the most predictable one too. of course, he'll have an epiphany near the end to placate the Maraven fandom as let's be honest, they comprise a substantial proportion of the fanbase. Another scenario like the user above me said will be him undergoing a period of healing where he sorts out how much he was manipulated and what he truly wants though I feel that's a lonely route when no one's by his side.
a super unexpected ending will be Mare ending up with Kilron, and ha, like that's gonna happen.
I feel like Kilorns character was wrongfully handled since the start. I see this in other books too and its kind of frustrating. Authors want to make their heroines "cool" so they give them boy best friends to show us theyre not superficial and like all the other girls but they also want to show us how irresistible and amazing they are so they make the boy fall in love with her as soon as the story starts. Its unrealistic and annoying when EVERYONE is in love with one character and also you've known each other all your lives this had to happen now? what two guys aren't enough for Mare we had to have three? Wouldn't it be a better story if Kilorn was in love with Mares sister instead?
I think Maven is interesting because so far hes the only not open book male character, other than that i don't think any of the guys are super dope to be honest
The sweet boy best friend who never wins tag annoys me the most.
In so many ways its so easy to predict how the book's gonna end
- Girl will most definitely end up with the first "good looking" (I can't stress enough how important this word is) boy she laid her eyes on
- the first guy she felt attracted to
- her first crush and in some cases her first kiss (but for the life of me I can't remember whether Mare kissed Cal first or not. I was truly more engrossed in the gradual development of Maraven and for one second there I literally faltered into believing this book will break the cliche mould)
-underdog and boy best friends are designed to harness pity
-the main love interest will either be the most noble person you can ever dream of with a heart of gold or a bad boy (for no good reason than to look cool) with a hidden..um, heart of gold ....I am not saying this is a bad thing it's just there are infinite more possibilities for creativity
In so many ways its so easy to predict how the book's gonna end
- Girl will most definitely end up with the first "good looking" (I can't stress enough how important this word is) boy she laid her eyes on
- the first guy she felt attracted to
- her first crush and in some cases her first kiss (but for the life of me I can't remember whether Mare kissed Cal first or not. I was truly more engrossed in the gradual development of Maraven and for one second there I literally faltered into believing this book will break the cliche mould)
-underdog and boy best friends are designed to harness pity
-the main love interest will either be the most noble person you can ever dream of with a heart of gold or a bad boy (for no good reason than to look cool) with a hidden..um, heart of gold ....I am not saying this is a bad thing it's just there are infinite more possibilities for creativity
Kimione wrote: "The sweet boy best friend who never wins tag annoys me the most.In so many ways its so easy to predict how the book's gonna end
- Girl will most definitely end up with the first "good looking" (I ..."
Agreed.
To be honest I think it would be interesting and unique if there was no redemption for Maven. Or at least some other villainous love interest in a YA book.Why does the MC always have to save the world in the end? It's always the same thing. Save the world.
Why can't an MC fall for the bad guy, choose the bad guy and not try to change him, and, I don't know, be bad herself? Become a villain. I know it isn't morally correct and that's what these authors are all for, but it would at least be different.
I'm getting tired of reading from the good girl's perspective and hearing the good girl's story.
Usually you know from the start who's going to end up with who. Giving both Cal and Maven flaws means that there isn't a predestined pairing and there's a fair(ish) chance Mare could end up with either and it's not really certain, which I love - even though it can be damn annoying sometimes.I've been so conflicted throughout the series. At first I was like Maven totally gets Mare and Cal is just too much under Silver influence, then Maven has to go a double cross Cal and Mare and goes all evil (but kinda pathetic) and I was like what! Then I shipped Cal and Mare until Cal chose the throne over Mare and I was like whyyyyy! Honestly right now I feel like both Cal and Maven need to start earning those brownie points and redeem themselves pretty sharpish if they want to be with Mare.
Right now if I had to choose, I would give my vote to Cal, because I feel like he's been with Mare longer and has connected with Mare in a free, open environment as opposed to Maven trapping her. I just feel like they have a stronger connection at this point. Who knows what's gonna happen in the final installment. My bet is either Cal or Maven dies - which would make Mare's choice a little easier. I also feel like that it would easier to pair them up since there's only one book left. Or maybe there isn't. I mean, it was meant to be a trilogy but book number 4 is on its way soo...
(If you reached the ending of this ramble congrats, and sorry for putting you through it all :/ Just had to put down my thoughts )
I find myself caring about Cals wellbeing in general and I don't like the secrets that Mare has been keeping from him. Hes only ever been supportive and amazing towards her and all the reds from the start. she clearly wasn't a virgin which leads the question - whod you bang Mare? and shes lying about it - not cool, to him it was special
she lied about Mavens notes and tried to hide them from him - very uncool
like you know Maven 5 minutes you think you could possibly care more for his salvation than his own brother? bitch please
I also don't like the way she treated Kilorn, like she knew he liked her and had planned to marry him unless someone else came along - she admitted as much in the book
Honestly at this point I want Cal to fall in love with someone else -if Evangeline wasn't a lesbian I would be ok with it (what a good twist that was - the writer got major points from me then)
also I'm kind of bumped that Elara died, she was such a good evil queen and contributed so much to the plot I miss her, her death was too easy
I'm team Cal all the way, the first time I read about Cal I was sold.He is Mare's solemate, even though they don't always agree on everything they have this chemistry that is hard to not like.
Maven, 100% Maven. I don't know, there is something about him and his evilness that (doesn't make me pity him, mind you) makes me feel as though all he is, is lonely. Which might sound pathetic but it sounds about right to me.
I think that she might not getting none of them. In the end of King's Cage (POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD SO BE CAUTIOUS), even thought Cal professed his love to Mare, she feels betrayed. She even says that both Calore brothers have breathed her.Now, when it comes to MY chose, I think I would go with Cal. He's such a lovable person to her and would go to the ends of the world if she asks him. Now, Maven it's cool but he's obsessed with her, like kind of a fetish or something similar. It's toxic. It's a complex character that I like, but I don't really think Mare would end up with her, after she swears to kill him.
But that's my opinion
I. LOVE. MAVEN. seriously, i love him. After the end of the first book i was like "Maven i loved but you betrayed me but i still love you" i just adore his evil and i can't stop loving him.
Im ginna have to go with Maven
Shanzea wrote: "I. LOVE. MAVEN. seriously, i love him. After the end of the first book i was like "Maven i loved but you betrayed me but i still love you" i just adore his evil and i can't stop loving him."Why do I relate so much to 'i just adore his evil' haha
Bre wrote: "Oh, and also? I just calculated the results from this page only. The tally looks like this:Cal=13
Maven=15
Kilorn=2 (lol)
And a couple of undecided people. I don't know what the other pages lo..."
The villain takes the cake; the villain does not share. In my opinion, the shadow of the flame always has more words to say, and has always the better story.
I love them both... Honestly, I would be happy with Mare being with either :)
Am I the only one who thought that Lucas and Mare had something between them? XD
Anne wrote: "Am I the only one who thought that Lucas and Mare had something between them? XD"Who is lucas???
Cal all the way!! Maven had his good days and there were some things that I liked about him, but I just think that Cal is a better fit.
Katherine CocoPuffs wrote: "Anne wrote: "Am I the only one who thought that Lucas and Mare had something between them? XD"Who is lucas???"
Mare's guard.
Yes Katherine, you are indeed 😂😂 i mean thinking about it would make sense slightly but i mean they were such good friends I couldn't imagine it.
I must have missed the ship for Mare/Maven! Is it really just me who felt that their romance was dead before it even started? Even when they were supposedly on the same side it just felt so stale and awkward. The only real emotions I ever felt between them was hatred, anger and bitterness. They seems so strange to me as a couple.I used to ship Cal/Mare, but something seems wrong about their budding romance now. Cal still has a lot of growing up to do and a lot of choices to make. I worry about the Cal/Mare romance getting in the way of both of their character storylines. If I'm brutally honest I don't think Cal even gives a shit what happens to Mare anymore.
For me the series is so much more than which brother Mare ends up with. I think old Cal would have been ideal but this new butthurt boy he's turned into isn't the right fit. Maybe Mare should be on her own? Idk I just think I'm done with any romance between the bickering brothers.
I have only read the 1st book, so that's all I can go off of, but I really love Maven and Mare together! Even with his betrayal, I feel like he really did care for her on some level.
Katherine wrote: "Natalie wrote: "Definitely Cal!! After you finish Red Queen it is obvious who she should be with, same with Glass Sword."you have to read kings cage.... things get messy there"
I've read it and I genuinely cried
I have to say this, I don't like the main characters. She annoys me.and I want to see Maven hitting her. So, yeah, I Prefer Maven ending up with her just to see her suffer. Like, I want her to want him so badly while he gives her the cold shoulders. Call me crazy, but Mere's attitude caused this hatred towards her.
I was Team Maven for almost the entire book, but at the end... the betrayal... AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH! Now I'm so mad at him! Team Cal!
I would have rooted for Maven if he had been the actual person he portrayed himself to be to Mare. But after the betrayal it broke my heart and now I root more for Cal. It seems obvious that they will end up together, but I am in the middle of the 2nd book so I suppose I will see where it goes!
I ship her with cal but I feel like he has no back round. I hope we learn more about him :(
I love Cal, he really loves Mare *SPOILER ALERT* On the third book Maven torture Mare and says he does that for love
Maven and Evangeline are undoubtedly the most mysterious and interesting characters in the books - at least for me
you guys I dont know if youve seen the description for War Storm but our suspicions about death were correct, it clearly says not all will surviveMy money is on Maven dying and someone from Evangelines family
Has no one finished the book?! obviously Cal! Maven is the ultimate manipulative and traitorous jerk!!!
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you have to read kings cage.... things get messy there"
Uh oh...