Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS
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Was 9/11 a false flag attack and 'Inside Job'? (GROUP POLL RESULT: 50% of you say YES)
It's simply illogical to say that because two million odd people haven't expressed their opinion on a subject that we know what their opinion on the subject is.3000 professional opinions undoubtedly means that their opinions are worthy of attention.
Harry wrote: "3000 professional opinions undoubtedly means that their opinions are worthy of attention. "3000 in ten years? I bet Gage wishes he'd never started that petition.
The website 911research, run by Jim Hoffman, is a first-rate truther site which has debunked a number of common truther fallacies, but disappointingly it still promotes the 'mystery of the missing trillions'. Missing Trillions
Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference
On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions." According to a report by the Inspector General, the Pentagon cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.
Such a disclosure normally might have sparked a huge scandal. However, the commencement of the attack on New York City and Washington in the morning would assure that the story remained buried. To the trillions already missing from the coffers, an obedient Congress terrorized by anthrax attacks would add billions more in appropriations to fight the "War on Terror."
The Comptroller of the Pentagon at the time of the attack was Dov Zakheim, who was appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems. Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor."
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/tr...
I think anyone unfamiliar with the background and unwilling to fact-check (as most people are) would get the following story from this.
Rabbi Zakheim was appointed Comptroller of the Pentagon in May 2001 and over the next few months embezzled $2.3 trillion. Rumsfeld announced the loss the day before 9/11 so the news would be buried. Then the conspirators hit the Pentagon with an airplane (Hoffman doesn't go for the 'no-plane theory') to cover up the theft
... all essentially false.
Harry wrote: "It's simply illogical to say that because two million odd people haven't expressed their opinion on a subject that we know what their opinion on the subject is.3000 professional opinions undoubtedly means that their opinions are worthy of attention. ..."
Exactly!!
Some of the recent comments in this thread certainly have been an illustration of Tavistock-style presentations or carefully chosen Owellian phrasings. All very 1984, if you ask me...
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for debunking certain things that deserve to be debunked and support continued questioning and playing Devil's Advocate...In fact, I've published a lot of debunking material on certain conspiracies that deserve to be debunked...And I'd say about 30% of this entire group's postings is actually debunking of, or at least serious skepticism toward, certain conspiracy theories/myths with little or no obvious evidence.
However, recent postings in this false flag terrorism section have unfortunately reflected what the likes of either mainstream media puppets or professional Government/Military/Intelligence PR Spin Doctors do in that they debunk, or attempt to debunk, isolated points -- while always avoiding a comprehensive, no holds barred-style debate in which skepticism toward the government/military are also exhibited
e.g. To properly investigate 9/11 one obviously needs to study all the thousands of interrelated anomalies that form the entire 9/11 mystery and even if only 10% are true, then that will over time destroy the official story just like the overwhelming evidence with the JFK assassination has essentially pulverized the US Govt's official "Lone Gunman" Oswald fairytale.
Then these spin doctors present their isolated victories, or semi-victories, or simply perceived victories they triumphantly announce themselves, as if that means the entire subject has been debunked and is no longer worthy of discussion,...All the while completely dismissing experts (usually with infinitely greater knowledge and education than them on the subject) who hold contrary opinions that challenge official stories like 9/11 or the assassinations of JFK or Diana.
So in this case with 9/11 itself, we have 3,000+ professional architects and engineers in the AE9/11Truth org presenting detailed reports as to why the official US Govt explanation on 9/11 is simply impossible.
However the challenge toward the official story is much bigger than that ISOLATED group, because; A) There are of course many more architects and engineers who hold such opinions but are nervous speaking out publicly; and B) There are other such groups beyond that specific body of 3,000+ architects and engineers both in the US and internationally; and; C) architects and engineers are just one important sector in the tens of thousands of experts who have boldly put their name on paper (and risked their careers/livelihoods) to positively refute the official story. For example, pilots and aviation experts are no less important a group.
So again, in case anyone missed it, here is a slightly more comprehensive (tho certainly not complete) list of experts in various orgs who all have put their names forward and signatures down on various petitions to categorically say the govt's official story is a big fat joke:
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice http://stj911.org/
Pilots for 9/11 Truth: http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/
Scientists for 9/11 Truth http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/
Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth http://pl911truth.com/
U.S. Military Officers for 9/11 Truth http://www.mo911truth.org/
Firefighters for 9/11 Truth and Unity http://ff911truthandunity.org/
Journalists and Other Media Professionals for 9/11 Truth http://mediafor911truth.org/
Lawyers for 9/11 Truth http://l911t.com/
Medical Professionals
for 9/11 Truth http://mp911truth.org/
Veterans for 9/11 Truth https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/v...
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth http://www.ae911truth.org/
9/11 Experts Speak Out http://911expertsspeakout.org/
So does that sort of vigorous scientific debate or diverse assessments/opinions within experts in their field regularly occur against other official explanations of tragedies or major historical events? NO.
But spin doctors will avoid that awkward truth and dismissively say "most experts have not signed the petition, so it means nothing" and then just conveniently move on to their next carefully selected argument...No doubt another isolated point they feel more confident they can argue against ;)
#NeverForgetJFKAssassination
James wrote: "Some of the recent comments in this thread certainly have been an illustration of Tavistock-style presentations or carefully chosen Owellian phrasings ...we have 3,000+ professional architects and engineers in the AE9/11Truth org"
Let's stick to ascertainable facts and try to avoid appeals to 'authority', please, James. The only way to test the validity of a theory is to examine carefully what the theory's proponents say about it - since this is presumably the basis of their belief in the theory.
So far I have shown that two common truther beliefs are unsustainable:
- Rumsfeld did not announce the 'missing Pentagon trillions' the day before 9/11 so the news would be buried (this, of course, is taken as evidence that he knew what was going to happen). The missing trillions had been public knowledge since March 2000 and this knowledge could not have been buried.
- Operation Northwoods did not include a plan to crash airplanes into buildings (this is more tangential but is taken as evidence that the military were thinking about these things long before 9/11). There is no record of such a proposal in the Northwoods documents, any related source, or anywhere else.
Let's try another one: did Norman Mineta say that he heard Cheney order a stand down of air defenses on 9/11? (Mineta was Secretary for Transportation and was in the White House bunker with Cheney.) If this claim is true, it's an open and shut case: bring on a new inquiry!
Thanks for proving ALL my points and predictions about how you'd respond and crafty lines of attack in my previous post, Ken.You've played the role of a blind believer in all things government/military really well and I think our fun little role-play has taught other observers well. You've shown the methods spin doctors used to attempt to shut down valid debates and I think you particularly nailed the "discuss isolated points and avoid a wide 9/11 debate at all costs" approach.
So well played, sir.
Wait a minute...You were roleplaying this Ken guy, right?!
Ken wrote: "Harry wrote: "3000 professional opinions undoubtedly means that their opinions are worthy of attention. "3000 in ten years? I bet Gage wishes he'd never started that petition."
3000 doctors diagnosed me with appendicitis, but I refused to have the operation until it had been confirmed by two million more.
Ken wrote: "- Operation Northwoods did not include a plan to crash airplanes into buildings (this is more tangential but is taken as evidence that the military were thinking about these things long before 9/11). There is no record of such a proposal in the Northwoods documents, any related source, or anywhere else."Let's say you're right about that, as I can't currently find any mention of it either, despite it being widely reported (perhaps wrongly). But if you're right, so what? The FAR more important point of the Northwoods/Mongoose documents is that it's PROVEN the US were happy to create a false flag attack and blame 'the enemy'.
James wrote: "You've shown the methods spin doctors used to attempt to shut down valid debates"James, I would be more than happy if you would state some of the truther points that you wish to debate. But you haven't - all you've said so far is that there are many of them.
My background is not in spin doctoring or PR, but in math and physics to Ph.D. level. There, if you don't get the details right, anything you build on them is crap. You can wish and wish, but your theory isn't right unless all the details are.
That's why I'm interested in details.
P.S. I take it you don't want to discuss what Mineta said?
Harry wrote: "Let's say you're right about that, as I can't currently find any mention of it either, despite it being widely reported"Harry, you say that the alleged Northwoods plan to fly planes into buildings is "widely reported". I'm guessing that means widely reported on conspiracy sites.
Why is that? Because from a truther p.o.v. it's by far the most important thing about Northwoods. It ties in directly with 9/11. And it's false. There is no record of such a plan in the source documents.
James wrote: "You've played the role of a blind believer in all things government/military really well"I see the misunderstanding here. You think I'm trying to defend TPTB.
I'm not. I'm trying to get at the truth, and that can only be done one case at a time. Unless you think you know the Truth already, of course.
Ken wrote: "Harry, you say that the alleged Northwoods plan to fly planes into buildings is "widely reported". I'm guessing that means widely reported on conspiracy sites.Why is that? Because from a truther p.o.v. it's by far the most important thing about Northwoods. It ties in directly with 9/11. And it's false. There is no record of such a plan in the source documents."
Um... I said: "Let's say you're right about (planes flying into buildings being mentioned in the Northwoods documents), as I can't currently find any mention of it either, despite it being widely reported (perhaps WRONGLY)."
I seem to be needing to repeat myself yet again, because on this specific point I'm actually agreeing with you: it's been reported wrongly, as far as I can tell. Why is that? No idea. I'm not the one who's posted about it!
But you keep ignoring the MUCH MORE IMPORTANT point, which I'm having to repeat once again: "The FAR more important point of the Northwoods/Mongoose documents is that it's PROVEN the US were happy to create a false flag attack and blame 'the enemy'." That's not even debatable, even though you're continuing to sidetrack that and not respond to that point.
Both issues you've brought up about Northwoods and the missing trillions are so irrelevant compared to other evidence for 9/11 being a false flag, that I don't know why you're focusing on them so much - after all, both things are not DIRECTLY about the false flag of 9/11 in the slightest.
You keep saying things like: "(Plans to fly planes into buildings are) by far the most important thing about Northwoods. It ties in directly with 9/11. And it's false."
And I keep saying: It's NOT the most important thing about the Northwoods documents in relation to 9/11. The MOST important thing - quite blatantly - is that (jeez, I'm getting bored of having to repeat myself here, and won't be doing so again): Operation Northwoods and Mongoose PROVE THE US ARE QUITE HAPPY TO CREATE FALSE FLAG ATTACKS!
Harry, I've said before that virtually all militarily powerful nations have carried out false flag ops or similar at some time. That includes Britain and France (the Suez 1956 set-up with Israel - not quite a false flag but close enough), Germany of course, and doubtless Russia.Now it's big news that the US considered doing a false flag in 1962? No, it isn't! That is NOT what interests the conspiracy sites, it's the supposed parallels with 9/11. But you don't believe me? Okay.
You say that truther beliefs about Northwoods and the Pentagon trillions are not very relevant? Well, I suggested something earlier today that is extremely relevant - you might even call it a smoking gun. That's the question of whether Norman Mineta said he heard Cheney order a stand down of air defenses on 9/11.
But James doesn't seem to be interested.
Ken wrote: "That is NOT what interests the conspiracy sites, it's the supposed parallels with 9/11."I spent much of yesterday and today looking at conspiracy sites/YouTube vids to try to find out if the whole planes hitting buildings thing was indeed included in Northwoods docs, and what I found was it's hardly mentioned. Those sites are much more interested in showing the many various ways false flag attacks were outlined in the Northwoods docs, which generally speaking tie-in to the idea of 9/11 being a false flag (bomb a US ship and blame it on Cuba, hijacking planes, creating terror on American soil etc. etc. - you already know the details), so you're simply incorrect when you say "(The other examples of false flag attacks in the Northwoods docs) is NOT what interests the conspiracy sites," as I've ploughed through dozens and dozens.
Simple question: Seeing as you think it's blatant that the US government would have created false flag attacks in the past, why do you think it's unlikely that they would have done the same for 9/11, and why do you think the Northwoods docs are irrelevant in that respect?
Oh, and one more question: Aren't you outraged that the good old US, leader of the free world, would even consider false flags and attacking its own citizens?
Anyway, like I said, things like Northwoods are largely irrelevant, when looking at the actual evidence of 9/11, so let's move on, yeah?
Harry, in message 360 you said that the alleged Northwoods plan to fly planes into buildings was "widely reported". Where was it widely reported if not on conspiracy sites? Do you remember where you first heard about this non-existent plan?Harry wrote: "Seeing as you think it's blatant that the US government would have created false flag attacks in the past, why do you think it's unlikely that they would have done the same for 9/11"
Because the "9/11 inside job" as imagined by truthers would have been so extraordinarily difficult, complicated and risky that I don't believe anyone would have attempted it outside a Bond movie. I'm leaving moral considerations out of this. Maybe they could have found enough skilled and reliable psychopaths to do it, maybe not, but that isn't the point.
"Aren't you outraged that the good old US, leader of the free world, would even consider false flags and attacking its own citizens?"
I don't know that it was proposed to attack Americans. There was a proposal to sink a boatload of Cuban refugees, "real or simulated", and that's shocking. Anyway, the whole thing was turned down.
"so let's move on, yeah?"
Okay by me.
Harry wrote: "3000 doctors diagnosed me with appendicitis, but I refused to have the operation until it had been confirmed by two million more..."Hahaha!
Harry wrote: "And I keep saying: It's NOT the most important thing about the Northwoods documents in relation to 9/11. The MOST important thing - quite blatantly - is that (jeez, I'm getting bored of having to repeat myself here, and won't be doing so again): Operation Northwoods and Mongoose PROVE THE US ARE QUITE HAPPY TO CREATE FALSE FLAG ATTACKS! ..."Given you and I have repeated that point a zillion times, I think one thing has now become clear...It'd be easier to get through to Barbie than Ken on even the most simple of points :)
James wrote: "Harry wrote: "3000 doctors diagnosed me with appendicitis, but I refused to have the operation until it had been confirmed by two million more..."Hahaha!"
If the first 3000 doctors he consulted diagnosed appendicitis and he didn't have it, there would be something seriously wrong with those architects ... er, doctors.
Ken wrote: "Where was it widely reported? Do you remember where..."Nope, I don't remember, that's why I found it difficult to find any info on it and came to the conclusion it must've been misinformation, or maybe I'm remembering info regarding that wrongly. Though perhaps it was from James Bamford. Dunno.
But you yourself said: "So far I have shown that two common truther beliefs are unsustainable: (...) Operation Northwoods did not include a plan to crash airplanes into buildings", so you must have also thought it was widely reported if it's a "common truther belief", even though neither of us can find much reference to it on conspiracy or other sites.
We said: "So let's move on, yeah?"
"Okay by me."
Great!
Now then... what about the Saudi connection, the money trail, stock market wins, Bush showing no emotion when he heard the news and going back to reading a story about a goat, reports of the plane not being a passenger liner, the reports of there being no wreckage at the Pentagon, the possibility that there weren't even actual planes anyway, NORAD's slow response even though they'd trained for it, exercises for a similar terror attack before it happened, Bin Laden being trained by the CIA, the Bin Laden family being flown out of the US the day after it happened - even though there was a no fly zone in operation, and those 3000 expert opinions about it being a demolition job? ...to just state some things off the top of my head.... :)
Harry wrote: "Now then... what about the Saudi connection, the money trail, stock market wins, Bush showing no emotion when he heard the news and going back to reading a story about a goat, reports of the plane not being a passenger liner, the reports of there being no wreckage at the Pentagon, the possibility that there weren't even actual planes anyway, NORAD's slow response even though they'd trained for it, exercises for a similar terror attack before it happened, Bin Laden being trained by the CIA, the Bin Laden family being flown out of the US the day after it happened - even though there was a no fly zone in operation, and those 3000 expert opinions about it being a demolition job? ...to just state some things off the top of my head.... :) ..."Still only about 5% of what needs to be investigated in a proper investigation on 9/11, as opposed to the Warren Commission-style sham that we got, but yes your list off the top of your head is a good start.
Hopefully more Undergrounders will include their own questions as I'm gettin' bored of this Ken-Harry-James shuffle-repeat...I mean, at least Ken can bring Barbie next time to liven things up!
James wrote: "I think one thing has now become clear...It'd be easier to get through to Barbie than Ken on even the most simple of points"James, I wasn't going to mention this, but I see you deleted your post #50 on the Northwoods thread. That's the one where you said:
"The Northwoods documents proposed that the supposedly hijacked (by terrorists) passenger planes will be flown into buildings in US cities."
That's okay, because it doesn't matter now, the other parts of the Northwood plan are MUCH more important, right?
****************************************************************
I can edit existing posts but not make new ones, so here goes:
Anyone who looks at this and the Northwoods thread can see what happened. I thought James had deleted one of his posts there after I replied to it. I was wrong, for which I apologize.
When I mentioned it here (this post) he "blocked" me with no warning and issued a post full of abuse:
"all the accusations you're making about me ...
personal mission to try to discredit my name ...
can't debate maturely without resorting to sabotage ...
implying delusional things about me ...
put words into my mouth one too many times, sucker."
I did all that in two days? Lol. You Undergrounders won't have this skeptic to bother you any more.
P.S. And I'm not a fan of Trump! He's an ignorant, lying blowhard.
Ken wrote: "James, I wasn't going to mention this, but I see you deleted your post #50 on the Northwoods thread. That's the one where you said:"The Northwoods documents proposed that the supposedly hijacked (by terrorists) passenger planes will be flown into buildings in US cities."
That's okay, because it doesn't matter now, the other parts of the Northwood plan are MUCH more important, right? ..."
100% baseless and Incorrect again = If you re-read my comments about flying planes into buildings (right or wrong) are throughout that Northwoods thread, including that specific comment you refer to. I stood by those comments all along and REPEATEDLY said that the main issue is not that, but that the US planned FALSE FLAG TERRORISM against US Citizens on US soil as being the main point (whether via bombs in cities, crashing or hijacking planes or drone attacks, or blowing up ships or whatever).
Never deleted any posts, but just decided to block you - not because you've presented contrary opinions to mine (people do that all the time and passionately) but because of all the accusations you're simultaneously making about me. Clearly, this was never gonna end and you're on some personal mission to try to discredit my name instead of debating intellectually.
You've had your say ad nauseam, all your posts are left in tact for others to read, but obviously you can't debate maturely without resorting to sabotage and implying delusional things about me. You've tried to put words into my mouth one too many times, sucker.
Have fun in your Donald Trump Emporer fan group with 6 members :)
More food for thought, guys...The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was a neoconservative[1][2][3] think tank based in Washington, D.C. that focused on United States foreign policy. It was established as a non-profit educational organization in 1997, and founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan.[4][5] The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[6] The organization stated that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world," and sought to build support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[7]
Of the twenty-five people who signed the PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.[8][9][10][11] Observers such as Irwin Stelzer and Dave Grondin have suggested that the PNAC played a key role in shaping the foreign policy of the Bush Administration, particularly in building support for the Iraq War.
Numerous commentators, including the following, say that the PNAC was involved in 9/11: http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_04...
In the summer of 2000, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a neo-conservative think tank riddled with soon to be Bush administration officials and advisors, issued a document calling for the radical restructuring of U.S. government and military policies. It advocated the massive expansion of defense spending, the re-invasion of Iraq, the military and economic securing of Afghanistan and Central Asia, increased centralized power and funds for the CIA, FBI, and NSA, among a slew of other policies that would, in the near future, be enacted upon their ascension to power. In the same document, they cite a potential problem with their plan. Referring to the goals of transforming the U.S. and global power structure, the paper states that because of the American Public's slant toward ideas of democracy and freedom, "this process of transformation is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." (ibid.)
PNAC members, and signees to its policy documents, include: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wofowitz, Jeb Bush, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Scooter Libby, Elliot Abrams, Richard Armitage, William Bennet, William Kristol, and Zalmy Khalilzad - men with their hands deep in the private defense, oil, and multi-national corporate industries poised to make vast sums of money and secure huge tracts of power and influence if PNAC policy evolved into U.S. Government policy. Nine months after they rose to power, and assumed central positions of leadership up and down the spectrum of military, civilian, domestic, and international agencies, they got their 'New Pearl Harbor'. And PNAC policy essentially evolved into the Bush Administration's official agenda. While this alarmingly convenient coincidence does not prove anything in and of itself, it does establish motive. And it certainly would raise the eyebrows of concern from any serious investigator looking into the facts of September 11.
Another alarming coincidence surrounding PNAC and September 11 has been revealed by attorney Stanley Hilton. Hilton, a graduate of Harvard Law School and former senior advisor and lead counsel for Bob Dole, attended the University of Chicago as an undergraduate in the 1960s. He studied under the infamous Leo Strauss, considered by many the father of neo-conservatism. Fellow students and acquaintances of Hilton's at the time included Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. In an interview with journalist Alex Jones, Hilton reports that, under the supervision of Strauss, his senior thesis detailed a plan to establish a Presidential Dictatorship using a fabricated 'Pearl Harbor-like incident' as justification. He further states that he, Perle, Wolfowitz, and other students of Strauss discussed an array of different plots and incidents 'like September 11th' and 'flying airplanes into buildings way back in the 60s'.
In light of these revelations, it is no surprise that Hilton has been trying to blow the whistle on government involvement in 9/11 for years. He has also filed a lawsuit against the government on behalf of a number of victims' families. As a result of his actions, Hilton has been harassed, threatened, burgled, and hounded repeatedly by the authorities.
15 Disturbing 9/11 Facts You'll Wish Weren't True https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbsZj...17 More DISTURBING 9/11 Facts You'll Wish Weren't True - Pt 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...
Hey hang on a minute, former US Secretary of State John Kerry, states that WTC7 was brought down by a controlled demolition on 9/11...Say what?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbReT...
This veteran New York City trial lawyer, who says he is not a "truther" or a conspiracy theorist but simply an investigator, breaks down 9/11 like a court case...He examines all the different events of that day in a balanced fashion, yet points out there is no proof in any direction - only a long list of bizarre anomalies in the Official Story that demand a new (fairer) investigation...What Really Happened on 9/11 and Why It's Still a Secret https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDIYC...
At this point it’s your a conspirator if you think it actually happened like they told us it happened, how does a building with a steel frame fall out beneath itself
I think this video was a great contribution to the discussion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfA4Z...
David Long, 9/11 Eyewitness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQbEu...20:38 Mention of multiple explosions.
9/11 Terror Trading: Beware of a Limited Hangout http://www.larsschall.com/2017/03/23/...Article excerpts:
Question: Did suspicious trading activities of uncovered put options on futures markets occur shortly before 9/11?
James G Rickards: Well, the trading documents certainly look suspicious. It is simply a fact that an unusually high volume of purchases of put-options for the two airlines occurred over the three trading days before the attacks. This is a mere fact, no speculation, no guessing around. This is clearly obvious from the documents of the trading sessions on the derivatives exchanges.
Question: Do you think that the intelligence agencies could have got a warning signal based on this information?
James G Rickards: Theoretically that is possible, if are you are looking and watching out for this. But there was far more significant information, which was ignored.
Question: Do you also think that some people with foreknowledge operated speculatively in the option markets?
James G Rickards: Based on the documentation of the trading session it seems that this has been the case, yes. (1)
FULL ARTICLE: http://www.larsschall.com/2017/03/23/...
A quite unprecedented number of drills were scheduled on or about the day of 9/11, and on or about the topic of Osama bin Laden hijacking planes and flying them into buildings. Of these, perhaps the most important were those by the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD). These moved the majority of the US fighter jets so far from the Northeast Air Defense Sector that they could not reach New York or Washington in time. Moreover, they used "live injects" i.e. inserted fake blips onto the air traffic control which confused the operators who could not tell the exercise from the real events of that day.NB; flag attacks often use drills as a cover - providing a pretext and fall back explanation if irregularities are observed or if the decision is taken not to carry out a false flag attack.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11#Drills
Further more on the 46 or so separate U.S. military/intelligence/emergency training drills that were going down on 9/11...and added to the confusion and divided US defense forces...United States government operations and exercises on September 11, 2001
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...
Exact same thing occurred in Britain's equivalent of 9/11 (7/7) with training drills
Counter-terrorist training exercise days before 7/7 was 'entirely a coincidence' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...
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Another thing, if you look at the Pentagon and the Pennsylvania "wreckage" from those crashed planes, there is less debris than some car crash sites... Where did the planes go?
What kinda planes were used that day...hmmmm, the plot thickens...9/11 3D Analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW62q...
A new transparency push calls on Trump, intelligence chiefs to declassify all 9/11 records http://www.floridabulldog.org/2018/04...
WTC - Twin Towers - Conspiracy: PART 1 - Down the Rabbit Hole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRY_5...
WTC Demolitons https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...In the latter half, architect Richard Gage, the founding member of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, talked about the destruction of the three World Trade Center high-rises on 9-11, and how there is solid evidence for explosive controlled demolition of the buildings. The government has maintained that fires from the crashed planes brought the buildings down, but "the facts," he said, "completely undermine that official narrative," and his group is demanding a new investigation, through the proposed Bobby McIlvaine Act, named after a 26-year-old who was killed by an explosion while entering the North Tower.
Gage specifically shared evidence that Building 7 was brought down by explosives: "We have maybe a dozen witnesses that heard explosions and then immediately the penthouse collapses on this building and then six seconds later the entire building suddenly drops as fast as a bowling ball." This is incredible, he cited, "because this building had 40,000 tons of structural steel in it, 3-5 times stronger than it needed to be to support this material." While there were fires in the building earlier, they were not hot enough to do this kind of damage, he added. Interestingly, Gage disagrees with Dr. Judy Wood's assertion that directed energy weapons were used in the towers' destruction. While there was a lot of unusual phenomena, he believes there was no evidence for this kind of technology.
James wrote: "WTC Demolitons https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...In the latter half, architect Richard Gage, the founding member of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, talked about the destructio..."
Absolutely CORRECT!!! Being friends with one of the best "dirty tricks" explosives experts and also having watched "controlled demolitions" there can be NO doubt this was controlled demolition, there is also absolutely NO DOUBT certain elements of the US government, including the President KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!!
It was the start of multiple wars in the ME and waiting on the sidelines were the US oil conglomerates!!
911 made many people immensely rich!
Looking at the evidence as an engineer, no other conclusion can be reached than that the towers and building 7 were demolished by explosives.What concerns me most is that the general public is so gullible and so disinclined to listen to a logical argument but only happy to follow the party line.
And we wonder how the Germans in the 30's were prepared to treat the jews as they did. Now we know how the public can be made to support an evil government.
John wrote: "James wrote: "WTC Demolitons https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...In the latter half, architect Richard Gage, the founding member of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, talked about ..."
Thank you Glen!!
Many other engineers also agree with you, especially those in Sweden
As someone who knows little about engineering or architecture, they sure looked like controlled demolitions to me. There are experts, however, who argue that it's totally plausible it happened the official way. I have to take a pass on this argument since I can't know who is right.For me, the giveaway is the put options taken out on airline stocks right before. That, plus a lot of circumstantial evidence, makes me think it was a wider conspiracy than just some Saudi pilots and jihadists.
If it was a wider conspiracy, they had excellent operational security. You would have expected a mistake to be found by now or someone would have blabbed by now.
Jim wrote: "As someone who knows little about engineering or architecture, they sure looked like controlled demolitions to me. There are experts, however, who argue that it's totally plausible it happened the ..."Hi Jim,
I know very little about engineering, but i have seen the "occasional" controlled demolition, Building 7 was one of the best examples, the other two towers certainly DIDN'T collapse at the speed of freefall because a plane rammed into them!
Plus the owner of the twin towers six weeks previously had upped the insurance massively and was at the dentist that day!!!
The rubble was taken away very quickly, before it could be analyzed, the "dancing Israeli's who filmed it with professional eqpt were released after 7 weeks when it was found out they were all MOSSAD agents!
The devout Muslim pilots, enjoyed booze drugs and women during their training.
The whole thing totally stinks!
I am of an age when, because of experiencing so much coming out of the media that has such a blatant agenda, that I find it extremely difficult to accept the official view of what happened that day. So much evidence is in opposition to the "official facts" that they are unacceptable.
Think I may have posted this in this thread previously, I can't remember, but I think this may be worth another listen if I have.You don't have to like Trump (I don't myself, but then again I dislike virtually all politicians) but remember he's had an inside look at engineering/architecture having built more buildings than most in NYC in recent decades. His head engineer at the time was part of the team who constructed the Twin Towers. So I still think what he said in this 2 minute radio excerpt (on the day of the event) about bombs needing to go off simultaneously as the plane strikes to do the level of damage necessary to demolish the twin towers, should probably be taken seriously...And that would fly in the face of the govt's official story as well...
9/11 Attacks: Donald J. Trump - Radio Interview - Sept 11, 2001 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8US9m...
James wrote: "Think I may have posted this in this thread previously, I can't remember, but I think this may be worth another listen if I have.You don't have to like Trump (I don't myself, but then again I dis..."
You shook my peaceful nest...
You seem to have high regard for Trump's engineering/architecture knowledge....becoming successful by running a shady business using, among other things, fear tactics, anybody can become successful, whether they know the business or not....all you need is other people who do.
I ask only one thing then, because I don't have the answer....him being such a big shot in not just the construction industry, but the real estate industry as well -- conservative/republican oriented industries -- how come they donated ten times as much money to Hilary's campaign than his? Should they not be completely thrilled they finally have one of their own in office? The oil industry sure was happy when Bush ran for presidency...
Where is the construction industry public support for building the wall, which should bring about great business for them? Why are they concerned about border wall penalties? (see link below)
Don't take my word for it, because I truly know nothing....but I think the AGC of America (Associated General Contractors of America) may know a thing or two about how well he knows the business: https://assets.documentcloud.org/docu...
Here's some of the things in the link:
Trump Administrations:
* Being run like a bad family owned small business
- autocratic leader
- no coordination of message, mission
- employees operate in fear
- lack of delegation
So the question is: Is Trump successful in the construction & real estate business because he's so knowledgeable about it, or is it because he's a narcissistic tyrant, running a self-serving business and nobody dare say anything in fear of retaliation?
I find it very interesting the very same industry which Trump knows so much about and is highly involved with, should have this concern: "Questions remain, nevertheless, as to where traditional business interests and the populist president's message will overlap and diverge." (see above link)
Then again, I could be completely wrong in questioning his abilities.
No, I think you're right to question Trump's abilities and everything about him...There is a fair bit of shady stuff there for sure.But I was just commenting about him having hired many of NYC's top architects and engineers and others in construction over the years...And saying on the day, and the day after 9/11, in several radio interviews that his construction advisors/staff (including one who was formerly senior in the World Trade Center) told him that the planes couldn't go thru steel in the buildings like that without bombs also being involved.
So besides what any of us think of Trump himself, I'm just wondering if what he said here was another clue as to the truth of 9/11.
I don't think he's ever talked about 9/11 the same way since becoming candidate, let alone President. So perhaps in 2001 he didn't think he'd ever run?
The problem is Trump has no credibility.
I recommend anyone with an open mind watch this lecture...Richard M. Dolan one of the best researchers around in my view...He's got a degree in history and one of the most unbiased in alternative or underground topics I've come across.
9/11 is not a subject he's ever covered before, until now.
9/11: What 17 Years of Lies Have Done to Us (Richard Dolan Intelligent Disclosure) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aXVz...
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
False Flag 911: How Bush, Cheney and the Saudis Created the Post-911 World (other topics)The Big Bamboozle: 9/11 and the War on Terror (other topics)
The Trigger: The Lie That Changed the World (other topics)
9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Fourth Edition (other topics)
Where Did the Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free-energy Technology on 9/11 (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Michel Chossudovsky (other topics)Donald J. Trump (other topics)
Philip Marshall (other topics)
Marianne Williamson (other topics)
Webster Griffin Tarpley (other topics)
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Correct, we don't know. What we do know is that there are several hundred thousand RETIRED architects and engineers who don't give a **** what the USG (or even the "secret government") might do to them, and they haven't signed up either.