Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS
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Was 9/11 a false flag attack and 'Inside Job'? (GROUP POLL RESULT: 50% of you say YES)
Okay Andrew...I'm personally philosophicalized and psychologized out now, mate - and I'm sure I'm not the only one...So Bring it back onto topic now...
9/11 stuff only please - as per the subject heading.
Thanks in advance on behalf of all those members and readers who like to read info on the actual topic when sifting thru long discussion threads like this one :)
Andrew wrote: "Okay, I'll leave this aspect for another day, another thread. Thanks for your understanding."Whew!
Start your own thread Andrew.This particular one is about...9/11...
To reiterate, in case there is any ambiguity whatsoever: this...thread...is...about...9/11...
US Senator Bob Graham: "9/11 Attackers had Help from Within U.S." -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1016...
You really need a Like button on this site.
How does the US private equity firm The Carlyle Group potentially relate to 9/11?From Wiki:
Carlyle has been profiled in two notable documentaries: Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 and William Karel's The World According to Bush.
In Fahrenheit 9/11, Moore makes nine allegations concerning the Carlyle Group.[92] Moore focused on Carlyle's connections with George H. W. Bush and his Secretary of State James Baker, both of whom had at times served as advisers to the firm. The movie quotes author Dan Briody, who claimed that the Carlyle Group "gained" from the September 11 attacks because it owned United Defense, a military contractor, although the firm’s $11 billion Crusader artillery rocket system developed for the United States Army is one of the few weapons systems cancelled by the Bush administration.[18] A Carlyle spokesman noted in 2003 that its 7% interest in defense industries was far less than several other Private equity firms.[93] Carlyle also has provided detail on its links with the Bin Laden family, specifically the relatively minor investments by an estranged half brother.[citation needed]
In The World According to Bush, William Karel interviewed Frank Carlucci to discuss the presence of Shafiq bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's estranged brother, at Carlyle's annual investor conference while the September 11 attacks were occurring.
The Iron Triangle: Inside the Secret World of the Carlyle Group by Dan Briody might be worth a read for those interested.
Also, check out this video:
The Carlyle Group and the relationship between the Pentagon, Congress and corporations
https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1019...
Numerous commentators, including the following, say that the PNAC was involved in 9/11: http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_04...In the summer of 2000, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a neo-conservative think tank riddled with soon to be Bush administration officials and advisors, issued a document calling for the radical restructuring of U.S. government and military policies. It advocated the massive expansion of defense spending, the re-invasion of Iraq, the military and economic securing of Afghanistan and Central Asia, increased centralized power and funds for the CIA, FBI, and NSA, among a slew of other policies that would, in the near future, be enacted upon their ascension to power. In the same document, they cite a potential problem with their plan. Referring to the goals of transforming the U.S. and global power structure, the paper states that because of the American Public's slant toward ideas of democracy and freedom, "this process of transformation is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." (ibid.)
PNAC members, and signees to its policy documents, include: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wofowitz, Jeb Bush, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Scooter Libby, Elliot Abrams, Richard Armitage, William Bennet, William Kristol, and Zalmy Khalilzad - men with their hands deep in the private defense, oil, and multi-national corporate industries poised to make vast sums of money and secure huge tracts of power and influence if PNAC policy evolved into U.S. Government policy. Nine months after they rose to power, and assumed central positions of leadership up and down the spectrum of military, civilian, domestic, and international agencies, they got their 'New Pearl Harbor'. And PNAC policy essentially evolved into the Bush Administration's official agenda. While this alarmingly convenient coincidence does not prove anything in and of itself, it does establish motive. And it certainly would raise the eyebrows of concern from any serious investigator looking into the facts of September 11.
Another alarming coincidence surrounding PNAC and September 11 has been revealed by attorney Stanley Hilton. Hilton, a graduate of Harvard Law School and former senior advisor and lead counsel for Bob Dole, attended the University of Chicago as an undergraduate in the 1960s. He studied under the infamous Leo Strauss, considered by many the father of neo-conservatism. Fellow students and acquaintances of Hilton's at the time included Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. In an interview with journalist Alex Jones, Hilton reports that, under the supervision of Strauss, his senior thesis detailed a plan to establish a Presidential Dictatorship using a fabricated 'Pearl Harbor-like incident' as justification. He further states that he, Perle, Wolfowitz, and other students of Strauss discussed an array of different plots and incidents 'like September 11th' and 'flying airplanes into buildings way back in the 60s'.
In light of these revelations, it is no surprise that Hilton has been trying to blow the whistle on government involvement in 9/11 for years. He has also filed a lawsuit against the government on behalf of a number of victims' families. As a result of his actions, Hilton has been harassed, threatened, burgled, and hounded repeatedly by the authorities.
All very good information. So much insider trading going on as I mentioned in my blog post http://engingeeringsociety.blogspot.c...
and the weird securities coincidences which this documentary goes into:
http://engingeeringsociety.blogspot.c...
Yep, the insider trading that happened on the market in the days and hours before 9/11 was covered somewhere earlier in this long discussion thread.Scary to think people not only had tip-offs about 9/11 but were making money out of it by trading on the markets...
Yes, sorry if I was/am redundant. I don't think it was just tip offs, but the securities transfers were a major purpose for the attack.Bush's securities were supposed to come due Sept. 11 which would normally require authenticity checks. Money laundering and authenticity investigations began, until the Sept. 11 attacks when people connected were killed and the files were destroyed.
People were to bring evidence to a hearing in Sep. 11. They and other whistleblowers died in the North Towers when flight 11 hit it. Suspicious transfers of money occurred during the attack at the World Trade Center involving the unusual software, successfully clearing the securities while hiding their owners.
Brokers from the major government security brokerage in the Twin Towers had to be eliminated to stir up the government securities market. Covert securities needed to be electronically cleared upon maturity without being the ownership being identified.
A hearing regarding issues with SilverStream were scheduled for 911 on the 93rd floor, including several whistleblowers and employees who were aware of the problem. They were killed when flight 11 attacked that section of the building. Instead of bringing SilverStream's problems to light, that day allowed many suspicious transfers to occur moving money from the WTC using SilverStream's software. The over-billing was apparently paid to keep people quiet.
Sorry Tantra, wasn't meaning to imply you were redundant at all, just meaning I and many others in this group concur with all you're saying about the financial windfall certain parties got from 9/11.One of the things posted earlier in this lonnngggg discussion thread was this video which mentions at least some if not all of the things you bring up about the suspicious 9/11 trading which has "inside foreknowledge" written all over it:
9/11 Trillions: Follow The Money! (Pre-9/11 insider trading leak confirms a group of US investors had foreknowledge of the attacks) -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/9036...
Oh, thanks for explaining, James, I'm glad I wasn't derailing the thread. And thanks for the substantial Corbett video. He's possibly my most trusted source for information like this, along with his buddies Abby Martin and Sibel Edmonds.
I've taken a run in this book at the controversy over releasing the classified 28 pages from the 9/11 congressional report on the Saudi role in the attack.The book will be free on May 11 on Kindle
The title is: Dumb & Dumber And The Saudis On 9/11
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FC26DOC
There is a reading challenge in the group on 9/11 truth books -- https://www.goodreads.com/challenges/...Here is the breakdown for this reading challenge:
September 11, 2016, will mark 15 years since the 9/11 tragedy. Are we any closer to finding out the truth of what occurred on that day?
Let's read and discuss books that deal with the incident and find out why mainstream polls (conducted by the likes of CNN and MSNBC) have repeatedly shown at least 50% of the American public believe 9/11 was an Inside Job.
Books that might be considered include:
Where Did the Towers Go?: Evidence of Directed Free-Energy Technology on 9/11 by Dr. Judy D. Wood
Classified Woman by Sibel Edmonds
The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report about 9/11 is Unscientific and False by David Ray Griffin
Even though everyone already knows the official story as promoted in the mainstream media, books that attempt to debunk the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 should also be considered and discussed.
https://www.goodreads.com/challenges/...
From Coast to Coast: In the last three hours, Joseph P. Farrell joined George Knapp to discuss a theory that ties together a tangled web of missing money, secret technology and remnants of the Nazi regime behind the 9-11 attacks. Farrell says a globally influential group made an attempt to take over the U.S. government in September 11, 2001. He stated that after hearing the news that the U.S. was under attack, instead of going back to Washington D.C. as George W. Bush said he would do at first, he instead headed first to Barksdale and then Orfutt Air Force bases in order to confirm that he still had control of the country’s nuclear weapons. Farell said that an unidentified person called the White House that day with secret codes used for national defense and let the government know that someone else besides terrorists might be trying to take over the country.
This call, Farrell claims, is partial evidence of a "third level" in the scenario. The first level is the standard story that Muslim radicals hijacked four aircraft under direction from Osama Bin Laden. The second level are the power players in the U.S. Government, including Bush and Dick Cheney and what they knew. The third is a "global fascist mafia with deep connections" that he believes are operating in most powerful countries around the world outside of laws or any accountability. Farrell also mentioned his research into what he calls is a "Nazi International" organization composed of former Nazis and their heirs, as well as financial supporters who help to perpetuate their existence and pay for various operations around the world and who have connections to the Bin Laden family.
As for the hijackers themselves, Farrell discussed statements from their flight instructors that "none of them were very good pilots," and could not have performed the intricate aerial maneuvers that were reported. He also said that there were numerous accounts that some of the alleged hijackers were partying and doing drugs in a way that a devout Muslim would never do. As for Mohammed Atta, the radical who piloted the plane that hit the first building in New York, Farrell said that his profile and activities fit someone who appears to have the "fingerprints of a terrorist, but is an [intelligence] operative." "Karen" called in from Las Vegas the last segment and recalled that Atta once played cards at a table where she was dealing, accompanied by another man who held his arm and told him what to do. She said that Atta "looked like a wild animal." When she called the FBI after 9/11, she said that they were not interested in talking to her.
Not sure if this is a reliable report or not, but it's written by a US journalist: FEMA Investigator’s Shock 9/11 Claim: “Vault Contents Emptied Before Attack … They Knew It Was Going To Happen” -- https://mainerepublicemailalert.com/2...
Lance Morcan wrote: "Not sure if this is a reliable report or not, but it's written by a US journalist: FEMA Investigator’s Shock 9/11 Claim: “Vault Contents Emptied Before Attack … They Knew It Was Going To Happen” ..."
Appears to be legit tape recording.... it's on YouTube in 2 parts.... here's part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjEWL...
I haven't watched it as part one is five hours long and probably quite boring, unless I know exactly what kind of things I'm looking for. So, my guess is that the reliability factor lies in the interpretation of the video footage....
Lance Morcan wrote: "Not sure if this is a reliable report or not, but it's written by a US journalist: FEMA Investigator’s Shock 9/11 Claim: “Vault Contents Emptied Before Attack … They Knew It Was Going To Happen” ..."
This isn't the first time I've heard about the empty vaults.
"It is of note to mention that Sonnenfeld’s wife died under mysterious circumstances shortly after he carried out his investigation. The cause of death? A bullet to the back of the head."
It is a common defense mechanism used by many organizations; destroy the reputation and credibility of the source. Not saying with much certainty that this is what is happening with this particular fellow but it is definitely worth noting.
CNN said there was no evidence of a plane at the Pentagon? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Bn_...No commercial planes in NYC on 9/11? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHHgh...
Still think this short video is the best summary of all the coincidences that would've needed to have occurred for the official story of 9/11 to have been factual:https://www.goodreads.com/videos/7380...
Re Valdimir Putin...Do you guys recall early this year there were headline news reports saying Putin was going to release damning evidence to prove 9/11 was an inside job on the 15th anniversary of the event?
The 15th anniversary is this Sunday...
So I go online looking for an update, expecting to see more recent news reports surrounding Putin's planned release of Russian intelligence documents and cannot find anything...
Have you guys heard anything?
I figured it was a bluff but you never know. If I see anything, I'll pass it along.
9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA9/11 Synthetic Terror Groundbreaking, brilliantly written, reveals the workings of state-sponsored terrorism. The expert on false flag ops - his first book exposed the "Red Brigades" as stooges of the P2 lodge and NATO stay-behind network -- Tarpley again demolishes the government's conspiracy theory. His working model of a network of moles, patsies, paramilitary pros and corrupt media is the only coherent explanation.
Jim wrote: "I figured it was a bluff but you never know. If I see anything, I'll pass it along."Actually, it appears it was misreporting or disinfo about Putin releasing evidence to prove inside job on 15th anniversary, as per the following article:
DISINFO: Putin to release 9/11 Satellite Images https://kendoc911.wordpress.com/911di...
That article's a good one for its list of internet sites that are purposely reporting fake conspiracy theories. It's getting harder and harder to sort between the wheat and the chaff these days.
Harry wrote: "That article's a good one for its list of internet sites that are purposely reporting fake conspiracy theories. It's getting harder and harder to sort between the wheat and the chaff these days."All part of the elite's strategies?
If they can't beat the whistleblowers, then infiltrate them?
Yep. It was happening in pre-internet days, so it'll certainly be happening even more now. :)
Harry wrote: "Yep. It was happening in pre-internet days, so it'll certainly be happening even more now. :)"
Oh well, at least this group is safe from those silly games.
Wait...It is safe, right?
I mean, you're not an MI6 spook, are you mate? :)
I'd be willing to bet somebody is keeping an eye on these discussions. Or, Goodreads discussions are just getting hoovered into some analysis software.
Jim wrote: "I'd be willing to bet somebody is keeping an eye on these discussions. Or, Goodreads discussions are just getting hoovered into some analysis software."Well, while the spooks are listening, I want to give a special shout out to the folks in the CIA, NSA, MI6 and MOSSAD...
Jim wrote: "I'd be willing to bet somebody is keeping an eye on these discussions. Or, Goodreads discussions are just getting hoovered into some analysis software."Yeah, I'd be pretty sure of that too.
(Shit... my cover's been blown...)
What are you guys so afraid of?They are just spooks in THE MOST POWERFUL INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES IN THE WORLD! :)
Harry wrote: "Who's afraid? Fuck 'em all!"Be funny if those were your last words before being "accidentally" blown up by MI6's latest false flag attack over there in the UK.
Part 2 of the video above...9/11 Conspiracy Solved: Names, Connections, & Details Exposed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_fp5...
UNSOLVED MYSTERY: What made Building 7 of the World Trade Center collapse on 9/11? https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1119...It wasn't hit by a plane...so what happened, guys??
Was it the first steel structure building in history to ever collapse due to ordinary fires?
Or...is there something 'they' don't want you to know?
Debris and and flames from the primary implosion site. WTF really believes it was a False Flag here? America really has gone to the dogs. We've become a 2nd-World state, with 3rd-World education.
Someone at NYTimes said it best: we have left the age of facts.
I'm not fan of Trump, but he does know New York construction and the city's buildings inside out, so what he says here in this short video does seem to undermine the government's official story on 9/11:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi9Z4...
Because Trump is a shady Landlord and Casino operator does not qualify him to know the engineering of collapsing buildings. Frankly anything that comes out of his mouth is dubious if not outright lies.
Peter wrote: "Because Trump is a shady Landlord and Casino operator does not qualify him to know the engineering of collapsing buildings. Frankly anything that comes out of his mouth is dubious if not outright l..."Agreed. The giant orange clown is a pathological liar. The opposite is likely true of anything has to say.
Peter wrote: "Because Trump is a shady Landlord and Casino operator does not qualify him to know the engineering of collapsing buildings. Frankly anything that comes out of his mouth is dubious if not outright l..."I can't stand the guy either!
However, I think in this instance Trump's views cannot be ignored that easily as he has predominantly been in one industry (real estate) in one city (NYC) his entire life. 9/11 doesn't just involve collapsing buildings, remember, but the design of those buildings as well, something Trump would know about. The design relates to the part of the interview where he mentions it was bizarre that the steel framed buildings were able to be so easily pierced by the impact of the planes (all of those comments relate to the towers before the actual collapse...).
And of course, real estate and construction is like any other industry - people talk and presumably if things didn't add up in a government's official story, then real estate/construction/demolition experts would discuss their opinions with others in their industry...Others like Trump... So where Trump mentions one of his own structural engineers gave him a guided tour of one of the WTC tower's basement, that reveals his connections and how he would obviously be privy to hearing opinions of these experts in his field.
None of Trump's comments here reveal anything remotely like a smoking gun of course, but combined with all the thousands of pilots/engineers/architects who are on record as stating the government's version of 9/11 cannot be true, we may be nearing the final nail in the coffin for the govt's convoluted explanation of what happened that day.
A good starting point for researching 9/11 is the American non-profit organization Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth): http://www.ae911truth.org/In that organization alone, they have amassed 2,723 architect and engineer signatories to date, all of whom completely dispute the results of official investigations into the September 11 attacks, including the 9/11 Commission Report.
Similar sites for 9/11 truth SOLELY involving academics and experts include:
Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice http://stj911.org/
Pilots for 9/11 Truth: http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/
Scientists for 9/11 Truth http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/
Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth http://pl911truth.com/
U.S. Military Officers for 9/11 Truth http://www.mo911truth.org/
Firefighters for 9/11 Truth and Unity http://ff911truthandunity.org/
Journalists and Other Media Professionals for 9/11 Truth http://mediafor911truth.org/
Lawyers for 9/11 Truth http://l911t.com/
Medical Professionals
for 9/11 Truth http://mp911truth.org/
Veterans for 9/11 Truth https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/v...
9/11 Experts Speak Out http://911expertsspeakout.org/
These are all great sites to inform those who believe that science and logic only exists on the side of the official US Government story and that no credible experts believe in the inside job (conspiracy) theory.
James,While I appreciate your enthusiasm, and understand there might be a bunch of folks falling for this crap, it is just that: Crap.
A heaping pile of crap.
Not only was I on the Pentagon site within the hour of the strike that day, but I had been working there daily for half a year prior. As an architectural enthusiast I'd also visited the NYC World Trade towers on several occasions prior to and afterwards.
One of the most fun aspects of being on the observation levels atop those towers was being up there and feeling the structure move under you. Just to put any structure that high requires that it be as light as possible. Therefore no matter how strong it is the erection has a fragility built in, more so the taller you go.
One of my visits was not long after the first bombing, in the parking structure I could clearly see the damage repairs and wonder that it had not come down earlier.
For the three years prior to 2001 I had been an Engineer at the ATF and we had to sift through the data on the destruction of multiple embassies in Africa. Each site aftermath was a mess, but revealed a systematic series of attacks by an organization with intimate knowledge of architectural weaknesses.
Sure some of the 911 Congressional record has errors, and as much paper was generated it just doesn't cover everything very well, but it's the best government can come up with. The last 15 years Congress has completely failed to impress, well, anyone.
As for any of this being 'false-flag' if you had worked one day for the government yourself you'll see we were overworked and underpaid, but sincere and hard working.
Not one of any government agency, all the way to the top, was organized well enough to pull off the kind of conspiracy you suggest. We just never had the excess time or monolithic organizational skills to do so.
Sorry, just never happened.
That does not make Congress's conclusion false, only some quibbling over minor details. Such confusion is the nature of cleanup after any catastrophic destruction.
Bottom line: No matter how big of a steaming pile of 'truther' crap is amassed on the internet there is no way the destruction done on 9-11-01 was faked, or organized by anyone other than those cited in the Commission report.
Look, we're meeting here in this forum of book enthusiasts, a place of fiction and discuss fantasy. But at not time should we lose the ability to differentiate between fact and fiction.
Frankly it offends me that we have to even address these untruths put forth by conspiracists so long after those terrible days. Like the authors of Nazi fantasies who now rehash WWII endlessly, conspiracy fantasies are nothing more than that: tall tales made up whole out of the imaginings of bored minds, storytellers, or self aggrandizing liars.
Look to the very real conspirators fighting against our common future in corporate profiteering polluters, and small minded politicians. You want conspiracy fantasies to be true? Well half of America chose not to vote, or believe such a cabal of fools could take over, and by doing so allowed the most dangerous monster to rise to power.
Today, surrounding this inauguration, that should terrorize you. Not another enemy of U.S. who was long ago identified and matters long put to rest.
Keep moving forward, good luck.
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
False Flag 911: How Bush, Cheney and the Saudis Created the Post-911 World (other topics)The Big Bamboozle: 9/11 and the War on Terror (other topics)
The Trigger: The Lie That Changed the World (other topics)
9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Fourth Edition (other topics)
Where Did the Towers Go? Evidence of Directed Free-energy Technology on 9/11 (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Michel Chossudovsky (other topics)Donald J. Trump (other topics)
Philip Marshall (other topics)
Marianne Williamson (other topics)
Webster Griffin Tarpley (other topics)
More...
And should this be a a whole new discussion thread called What is Jim Smoking? :)