Kenyons Minions discussion
This topic is about
Invision
Chronicles of Nick
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Invision (CoN #7)
I know what you mean about genetics, however, we know Caleb is a deava demigod because his dad got busy with a deava demon and Xypher is half Gallu for the same reason and Simone's father was the male equvilant of a Dimme demon. Nicky is the Malachai because of Adarian, so you parents do seem to play a part.In mythology Adanc are welsh water demons that are a cross between toads and crocodiles lol maybe the fact that his mother is Bridgette (spelling?) has something to do with it?
Adam wrote: "I know what you mean about genetics, however, we know Caleb is a deava demigod because his dad got busy with a deava demon and Xypher is half Gallu for the same reason and Simone's father was the m..."I don't know enough about Thorn or Bridgid's parentage to make a guess as to how that would all result in an Adanc. Especially since, from Thorn's comment, it seems Cade was the first of his kind.
Ha! Imagine Bridgid running around after giving birth, telling people about her toady son! (Although that would be kind of self-destructive)
Thorn is the son of Lucifer and a human I believe and Bridgit is the son of the Dagda and the morrigan (she might be wrong but the Dagda's definitely her dad) Bridgit is also the weremerlin for the shield of Dagda, just like Cade is and Cades child (whose names escapes me this morning)
Adam wrote: "True Thorn is full of shit lol if I'm wrong I'll own it its just not something I remember and surly it would have been brought up a few times? What's strange is Cade is technically an Arch-Demon (t..."
I think that since Cade is half god I think that Thron and Cade's mom more or less created a knew type of demon... or something like that.
I think that since Cade is half god I think that Thron and Cade's mom more or less created a knew type of demon... or something like that.
But why didn't the same thing happen for Caleb or Xypher? Or Acheron for that matter? We know that his mother is Apollymi and his father is either the Charonte God or a really fucking powerful one, but Ash is a mega powerful God/Charonte, not some new demon.
Adam wrote: "But why didn't the same thing happen for Caleb or Xypher? Or Acheron for that matter? We know that his mother is Apollymi and his father is either the Charonte God or a really fucking powerful one,..."
I think it didn't happen to Xypher because he's more of a dream hunter (or whatever the other one is called)... or at least he seems like it. As for Caleb, I think that he's just a stronger version of a Deava
Or Cade's mother did something to him and transformed him into another type of demon.
I think it didn't happen to Xypher because he's more of a dream hunter (or whatever the other one is called)... or at least he seems like it. As for Caleb, I think that he's just a stronger version of a Deava
Or Cade's mother did something to him and transformed him into another type of demon.
But she gave him away as soon as he was born so I don't know how she could have done?
Like Adam, it's the fact that Cade was the first of his kind that bothers me. Shouldn't it have happened before? Is it that his genetics were the perfect recipe for an Adanc? Like one of those 1 in a million things? There haven't been any other Adanc, right? Aside from (view spoiler) That's why I think there is some truth to Thorn's comment that the Source had something to do with the creation of that new race. I find it weird that, in all of time, it took (view spoiler) to create a randomly powerful being. I bet it could have happened a thousand times over the centuries but I think something with Cadegan's abilities became necessary to the world at that point in time so the Source made it happen.
Hmm naming seems to be up to the characters. If you think of it, Jared is technically a demi-god.Also Thorn's species of demon hasn't been revealed. It seems that both parents need to be the same type of demon in order to ensure that their offspring is the same type.
I think it's pure speculation that he is a balance. I also think they're *wrong*. I mean, Morgan kicked his ass. Yes, she is evil and powerful and all, but not on the level of gods.
Michael wrote: "Hmm naming seems to be up to the characters. If you think of it, Jared is technically a demi-god.Also Thorn's species of demon hasn't been revealed. It seems that both parents need to be the same..."
Naming what?
And we don't know that parents have to be the same type. The Malachai, for example, is what he is solely because of his father. And we were never really told what Caleb's mother or his siblings were. Ash is a god, but his brother, monakribos, was something else entirely despite the fact that his father was a confirmed demi-god. Katra is a syphon, neither of her parents were. So I think it's more complicated than that.
Also, I don't follow what you said about Morgan.
Ugh this is what happens when you look at the wrong page and try to comment >.<The world was reaching a tipping point by the time Cade was born. Thorn was fighting the Malachai army, but I don't think Adarian ever stepped up to that field, since it would out him to Noir and Azura. Cade was probably born so that the world would stand a chance should Adarian ever go to war himself. I don't think he could have taken Adarian (seeing how Morgan kicked is ass) but I do think that with Thorn and his army they could have at least held out until the next Malachai was born. (pure speculation FYI)
Ash is a god because he is part of a pantheon - otherwise he'd be considered an Archdemon. From what I understand about Monakribos is that his mother did not want him to be mixed up in all the inter-pantheon politics and such, so he was never accepted as part of the pantheon, so he was a demon. Katra is also a god, but a Sumerian/Atlantean one, since Artemis never accepted her into the Pantheon.
He's not part of a pantheon though so I don't understand what he's God of? I mean Apollo and Artemis are connected to the sun and moon so their deaths will destroy the world but what is Cade connected to that will cause devastation? Technically Kat isn''t part of a pantheon, she's connect to 3, Atlantean, Greek and Sumerian but she isn't technically part of any.Michael's right about Morgan, she's Fae and a powerful one at that but she isn't a Goddess or anything as far as we know, so why she could beat Cade as badly as she could if he's this massively powerful being?
I don't remember reading that Thorn's army was fighting the Malachai's, but I was under the impression that Adarian was metaphorically "underground" so he wouldn't he found by Noir and Azura. Why you'd raise an army and pillage when you're wanted by supreme evil I don't know.
I don't know at which point a god becomes, like, formally accepted into a pantheon, so I can't help with that. I don't think the hierarchy is as simple as any god being more powerful than any demon. Some species of demon are more powerful than gods. Charontes seem to be universally feared and the Malachai is like a whole other level of badass. Maybe Morgan is just more powerful than we ever knew. In SONO, about Thorn and the Malachai: (view spoiler)
We don't know which Malachai Thorn was fighting. I guess that would depend on how old he is, since Adarian is supposed to be at least 10 000 years old. 10 000 years ago he enslaved Caleb and I seem to remember SK saying Adarian was "a lot older than that" when asked about it in the Ask the Author section. Also, with one or two Malachai travelling back in time in CON, maybe not mentioning him by name was intentionally meant to mislead us.
Adam wrote: "True Thorn is full of shit lol if I'm wrong I'll own it its just not something I remember and surly it would have been brought up a few times? What's strange is Cade is technically an Arch-Demon (t..."Not necessarily. From what I understand, genetics aren't entirely consistent when it comes to gods and demons.
My guess is that Thorn and Cade are similar, but not exactly the same species of demon.
Had it really been that long since the Malachai escaped Azmodea?
-FB Posts to Sherri's page April 31st:"SK staff. Does any of you know how old Adarian from CON was? A lot of us are curious."
-"He's dead now. . . but he was born 5666 BC to Xarex Malachai and Teras. Carl MB Staff"
Posts to Page April 15
"Carl,
Some of the fans, and I have been wondering how old Savitar is. I am confused because I thought he was super old, but in Illusion in the alternate universe he tells Nick that the Malachai war was before he was born. So my question is, was that just in the alternate universe, and if not does that make Savitar younger than Thorn? Thanks.."
-1000 BRT: The Primus Bellum begins.
12,230 BC July 18: Savitar is born.
8666 BC, June 6: Leucious (Thorn) of the Brakadians is born to Tesiah and Veru
So yes, Sav is ancient, but the PB was long before his birth.
Wait a minute...am I seeing this right? Thorn is 3000 years older than Adarian? We don't have an exact day for A, but 3000 years even? Is that significant?
I specifically remember reading that Caleb was enslaved by Adarian 10 000 years ago. How is this possible?Also, Tesiah and Veru? Is one of those another name for Lucifer or did I miss something?
Marie wrote: "I specifically remember reading that Caleb was enslaved by Adarian 10 000 years ago. How is this possible?Also, Tesiah and Veru? Is one of those another name for Lucifer or did I miss something?"
You didn't miss anything. Thorn's genealogy isn't set in stone yet.
Ah ok, turns out Caleb was enslaved a thousand years ago, NOT ten. Now it makes sense. https://www.goodreads.com/questions/1...
Marie wrote: "Had it really been that long since the Malachai escaped Azmodea?"Whoops, I stand corrected. All we know is that Adarian escaped over a thousand years ago. (Based on information scattered throughout The Guardian.)
Myst wrote: "Wait a minute...am I seeing this right? Thorn is 3000 years older than Adarian? We don't have an exact day for A, but 3000 years even? Is that significant?"Good question, Myst. 'Cause that's an awfully strong coincidence there. (Yeah, I noticed that too, and thought it was a bit ... odd.)
Charlotte wrote: "Myst wrote: "Wait a minute...am I seeing this right? Thorn is 3000 years older than Adarian? We don't have an exact day for A, but 3000 years even? Is that significant?"Good question, Myst. 'Caus..."
Plus, both years end in "666", which, given what they are, can't be a coincidence, right?
Hey, So I was looking for a reason why Cyprian might have renamed himself "Nathan St. Cyr" and I found this:"Cyprian St Cyr, psyeudonym of Eric Berne, Canadian-American psychoanalyst and founder of Transactional Analysis"
From what I understand, Transactional Analysis is a method of learning about a person psyche by observing him interact with the world, instead of the typical couch/talk therapy used by Freud
Might mean nothing but still a pretty cool coincidence that there's a Cyprian named St. Cyr in history. Not exactly a common name.
That IS really interesting! I found that there was a St. Cyprian at one time in history. And that Cyprian just means 'from Cyprus.'It's fitting that Nick 'might' name his son after a saint considering he's already got three names of saints. Being that of St. Nicholas, St. Ambrosius, and St. Aloysius.
Malachaibubble12 wrote: "That IS really interesting! I found that there was a St. Cyprian at one time in history. And that Cyprian just means 'from Cyprus.'It's fitting that Nick 'might' name his son after a saint consid..."
Yeah that's the patron saint of family and he's who you pray for good health to sick kids.
But there's a patron saint for pratically every name so I'm not sure it's a clue about who named him. I mean, Mennie speculated that he might have been kept a secret from Nick
About Charity, (view spoiler) I can't be the only one who finds that unlikely given the sheer number of times I've read him and his mother say something like "you can never hold your head up with dignity if you hold your hand out for charity".
I still find it weird that Nick has a daughter LOL or do you think the future will change again and she will cease to exist? I find it almost as strange as Cherise dating.... I assumed Cyp's mother named him since he was kept secret from Nick though.
Im not sure about Cade maybe it's just crossbreeding pantheons who have never intermingled before is like Russian roulette or just the influence of the source attempting to keeping balance?
Slick wrote: "I still find it weird that Nick has a daughter LOL or do you think the future will change again and she will cease to exist? I find it almost as strange as Cherise dating.... I assumed Cyp's moth..."
It weirds me out too. Nick is the only Malachai, that we know of, that ever had a daughter. I wonder what made that happen, what made it possible.
I personally think the source had something to do with Cade. Like it was trying to create something to balance out the Malachai, since Jared obviously wasn't enough anymore. That's my interpretation and I find it kind of disappointing so I'm hoping there's another explanation and it's more than just:
- Random person: why was Cade made?
- Source: cuz I felt like it, duh.
Thorn isn't in a Pantheon tho, and I don't think the source has made him because it "felt like it" either. There's no reasoning behind that and as well all know from SK there's always a reason behind everything. We know that there were female Malachai, so there's no reason Nick couldn't have a daughter.
Adam wrote: "Thorn isn't in a Pantheon tho, and I don't think the source has made him because it "felt like it" either. There's no reasoning behind that and as well all know from SK there's always a reason behi..."But no daughter was ever mentioned. A big deal was made of how each Malachai is cursed to die at the hand of his son and also of how each Malachai has hunted down his sons because of it. But not ONE mention of ANY daughter. Ever. Then all of the sudden, in the future, Nick apparently maybe broke the curse of only one Malachai at a time and that's in the same future where he has a daughter. The whole thing strikes me as weird.
And I don't think it "felt like it" either. I'm saying the universe needed a counterbalance to the Malachai and maybe the source made it so. Which is why I think it's a little too easy and I'm hoping there's more to it. Like maybe someone else saw how powerful the Malachai would become and appealed to the source for help or something. It might have been Cam's first attempt to fix balance, before she turned to creating Nick. I definitely think the Source had something to do with it, but I don't want the whole reason behind Cade's creation to be summed up by "It was the will of the universe".
But Cade was born 1000 years ago, when Adarian was still the Malachai, so he wouldn't have been Nicks counter balance because he wouldn't have been around for a millennium, there would have been an imbalance for all that time, regardless of where Cade was. And as for him being Cams first attempt, Cade's mother is a goddess and his father is a pretty powerful Arch-demon, I don't think she'd be able to manipulate them like she could Jared and a random skirt.As for the no daughters only sons, all we know is that the curse is for the father to be killed by his son. That doesn't mean they cant or don't have daughters, they just don't need to kill them so they aren't important. They haven't mentioned every pantheon that's ever existed but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means mentioning them hasn't needed to happen yet. We know that Kri's wife was a Malachai, hence why he was tricked into killing her. And Ash and Jared have bother mention female Seriphii. Its all about relevance and whether it will advance the story.
I know they're not mentioned. That omission is precisely why I find it interesting that the first ever mentionned is Nick's unborn daughter. Besides, I don't really want to argue the significance of her existence. Like you pointed out, we don't know enough for that yet. I just wondered why Nick would name her Charity when he and his mother go around living by the motto of never accepting charity. It's like reverse-foreshadowing. And Cam arranged Nick's birth because Adarian had grown so powerful he could have killed Source Gods. So arranging the birth of something capable of eliminating that threat is something she could have tried before with Cade. I don't think it would be as easy as with Jared and Nick's grandma either, but that's where the "appeal to the Source" part comes in. It's just one option, ya know. I'm not saying I think she did it. I'm saying I think the Source had something to do with it, I'm not sure how, and Cam could be a reason for it. For all I know it was just some random victim of Adarian's that prayed to the cosmos for help and was somehow heard and answered with Cade.
I still think it was the Source attempting to level things out, maybe Cade was created as a counter balance to Adarian who at the time was waging a war? I don't necessarily think it had anything to do with Nick, i mean honestly i doubt Cade could take Adarian hahaTrue Thorns not in a Pantheon as far as i know i merely meant he has Noir and Paimon's blood running through his veins. I was only referring to Noirs family.
There was a time when female Malachai existed now it's just father and son. I'm sure the inherit some gifts from the bloodline but not enough to rival the 'heir' so to speak.
am I one of the only ones who think that Charity isn't really Nick's daughter, but he helped raise her and was the closest thing Charity has to a father.
I thought the same thing at first Neona, but then I remembered she has Nick's eyes, which he got from Cherise.
Marie wrote: "I thought the same thing at first Neona, but then I remembered she has Nick's eyes, which he got from Cherise."
but couldn't she easily change her eye color?
and if she is her daughter when was she conceived and how long was Simi pregnant for.
but couldn't she easily change her eye color?
and if she is her daughter when was she conceived and how long was Simi pregnant for.
She could but I don't see why. I REALLY don't think Simi is her mother either. She is hooking up with Simi's son!
what i dont get is why cyprian would want to kill Nick wgen he was young. Nick has not been with anyone. if Nick dies rhen Cyrpian dies as well.
I thought Sherri confirmed he is there to make sure he is born?
Ray (warrior of randomness) XP wrote: "what i dont get is why cyprian would want to kill Nick wgen he was young. Nick has not been with anyone. if Nick dies rhen Cyrpian dies as well."Wow.... this didn't even cross my mind haha
Nicks rather prone to stupidity...Like father like son??
I think charity mentioned sensing the blood connection between them so I guess she's his, or at least closely related.
My money's on rahvenna being the mother the raven chick with zeke.
I don't think Cyprian is trying to kill Nick. I think he is trying to push him over the edge so that Guerre can take advantage of him, thus ensuring he is born. Also, if Nick goes "dark" most of his allies will probably abandon him, which could cause huge trouble in the final battle against Cyp's army.
SK or Carl said that Cyprian went back in time to ensure his birth. He might be from the original timeline or from an alternate future Ambrose created, but either way, the past has been changed by Ambrose and now Nick knows so much he could change the future at any moment by making a different decision. Which is why Cyprian would go back to ensure it doesn't change enough to prevent his birth, I guess. Maybe Nick being suspected of evil or Nick turning evil is what led to his birth, which would explain why Cyprian is turning people against Nick by making him a murder suspect and trying to drive him insane with that vision-transmitting rock. That's how I see the situation right now.
Okay so there's been something that's been bugging me all day. I recently re read inferno (technically the audio version) and nick saw himself die... is it a the same death scene from this book? But that's not my point.
What I'm trying to say that what's causing nick to have these visions and I'm also assuming that every destructive and evil thing nick is doing is what he see's through cypian's (probably spelled his name wrong)? What's the cause of it all?
What I'm trying to say that what's causing nick to have these visions and I'm also assuming that every destructive and evil thing nick is doing is what he see's through cypian's (probably spelled his name wrong)? What's the cause of it all?
Things I notices in the Inferno visions:- When Ambrose watched his demon army attack the church, he saw a familiar looking woman with chemically straightened dark hair and a dark bruise on her cheek who reminded him of egyptian godesses.
- in another vision, Nick defeats an enemy on the battle field. The enemy is described as having a "weak human body". But Nick sees him wearing his own face. And Kody, with a bruised cheek, attacks him.
Despite what Kody says about that guy actually being her brother, the fact that Nick later goes on to have a vision of himself from the perspective of the dead guy, and not the insane demon, makes me think that there is more to it than that. Maybe Nick's subconcious changed the guy's face for Nick's as a metaphor for his self-loathing and self-destructive tendencies. Maybe it was some sort of vision of the future that was twisted in Nick's mind to look like his demon side triumphed over his human side. Or maybe It's like someone suggested before that Nick would separate into two beings: one the evil Malachai, and the other his good side
Originally i thought in the church scene that was Kody's mother. Not so sure now.That battlefield is a pain in the ass. Every time we see it there's a minute change to it that could mean something different.
The only thing i can think of was originally Nick/Ambrose was the big bad guy but since Kody has come back the future has changed and it's slowly been altering.
Maybe in the future Kody's brother did die like that but Nick saw himself killing himself and Kody attack him. Then himself kill himself and another mysterious woman attack him. Then it was him through Cyps eyes killing him.
The futures been altered so anybody actually trying to keep this straight is insane.
Im starting to think SK is a sadist XD
What really weirds me out is that, weither that guy was actually Ari or Nick, neither of them could ever be described as having a "weak human body", so I'm not sure what that's about.Something to take into account is that in the first version of that vision, in Inferno, Nick was in the middle of some sort of mind-meld with Kody. So I wouldn't take that vision as the "true version" of anything seeing as it could have been distorted by both their minds. It was probably a cross of Kody's version of events and the vision Nick had later in Invision.
Also, could visions not be as literal as we think they are? In literature, if a character has visions, sometimes there will be a lot of symbolism and part of the plot is about trying to interpret them correctly. Maybe Nick has some visions that are like movies of the past and future, but maybe he also has visions that are more like dreams with a lot of symbolism
About this: "...Ambrose is trying to repair the past. Cyprian is trying to preserve it. ... And yes, Cyprian is winning in the future which is why Ambrose came to the past to repair it and to stop Cyprian and his army."- Carl, about Cyprian, found here on the Official Site Tidbits thread
Is it just me or is "repair the past" a strange way to put things? Unless the past Carl is referring to is the new time sequence, not the original one. Here's what I'm thinking: Ambrose wasn't trying to "repair the past" when he came into his younger selves' lives and changed everything. That wasn't to "repair" anything. It was to drastically change the course of history . More like blasting through the past with a bulldozer. It's only later, when he appeared to Nick asking him to get the Eye of Ananke, that it could be said he was trying to "repair the past". As in trying to fix the damage he'd caused.
And I know I'm supposed to believe that was Cyprian who'd disguised himself as Ambrose in that scene, but that was never really said, right? Just that he made himself look like his father on that rooftop with Laguerre. Which might actually refer to how he framed Nick for murder. He shapeshifted into a Nick lookalike so he could leave the correct prints on the murder weapon. And while Cyprian could have done the same thing to get Nick to find the stone, he could have also somehow manipulated Ambrose into thinking it was a solution. And now he'll take advantage of it.
Besides, last time we saw Ambrose, he'd lost his mind at Artemis' temple and was trying to kill her. He could have snapped out of it briefly to tell Nick to get that stone (he still had some time-travel demon blood at that point). Meanwhile, Cyprian would be invested in keeping Ambrose crazy so he would want CON Nick to stay on the same path he's on. Which is why he's trying to "preserve the past". The past Carl is referring to could actually be the altered timeline Ambrose would want to "repair", as in restore to its original version to get his sanity back.
Also, Ambrose didn't set out to stop Cyprian in his army at the beginning of CON. In every flashfoward, he was afraid of himself and of what he would become, not of a son or his army. So when Carl says Ambrose went back to stop Cyprian, he's not talking about all the times he tried to change his younger self's destiny. It's actually the altered timeline that he's trying to fix by getting the Eye, because him losing his mind led to/revealed Cyprian.
This was a bit long but I wanted to explain everything clearly. Thoughts?
I'm not sure about the genetics of it all. Thorn said Cade would be only a quarter demonkyn and Cade's mother answered that something like how a drop of demon blood is basically the same as being full-blooded. I'm just not sure if she meant that it was the same to her, since she was talking about how the child being part demon was the reason she couldn't "rip it out".
Plus there's so much secrecy surrounding Cade that I don't think his cosmic role in the universe would necessarily be talked about all that much.