Clockwork Prince
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That is not Jem on the cover
message 151:
by
Maddie
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rated it 4 stars
Jul 09, 2013 11:15AM
Jem has Asian in him and a big infernal devices fan can told me Jem was on the cover and why wouldn't he be? Wills on the clockwork angel ( I wish they did a different one because you can't see his face) and Tessa's on the third and there the three main characters. I don't think he looks like Jem and more like Will but his hair is kinda silver and Jems favorite weapon is his cane which HE IS HOLDING so it has to be him.
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The same every defender said so far: "kinda silver", "cane", "it has to be him"No... Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Do you actually think that this is a valid argument in any way? That this is evidence? No, not even remotely. That is saying "I can't think of anyone else so it has to be Jem". By that "logic" if that one had green skin and tusks, he would still be Jem if he fits what you just stated.
But all that doesn't change the fact that the model does not match Jem's physical description of hair, eye and skin color.
It is supposed to be Jem, but since the description doesn't fit, it's clearly not Jem, they messed it up.
Can people stop seeing jem as a thin weakling! He is a shadowhunter. Of course he has to be well at most points. Who cares about the cover! We have two jem's. The one in our heads and the one from the cover. If jem was actually real then he would look different. But he ain't real. He's fictional!! However in our shadowhunter world, he's as real as ever.
That little rant was totally pointless.When a book-cover is supposed to represent a character from said book than the cover artists have to make sure as best as they can that the cover matches the description, and considered how much they already photoshopped that picture are you really gonna tell me they couldn't have changed the hair? Fans on deviantart can do that, but these people could not?
Andre wrote: "That little rant was totally pointless.When a book-cover is supposed to represent a character from said book than the cover artists have to make sure as best as they can that the cover matches the..."
Yes some fans can do a way better job. However with too much tampering, the cover would look less and less realistic. If Cassandra Clare agreed to this then why couldn't she point that out?
If the jem on the cover was like exactly how he was described in the book, then he will be seen as less of a heroic shadowhunter. For once jem's strong side should be shown.
What? Seriously, what was that supposed to mean?Were you implying Cassandra Clare would have said no to the cover? Hello... You are obviously a fan but you are talking about the woman that couldn't get the most obvious way of getting Simon out of that cell in City of Glass and cannot even keep the looks of characters consistent. Now take into account that the model on the cover matches Will's description and you can guess why Clare probably didn't even notice the problem.
And are you seriously implying that people will see Jem as less heroic simply because he is depicted exactly like he was described in the book?
Do you even realize why people like Jem? Do you actually think people like him because in their mind he is some super model? Even people who hate the rest of the book like Jem because of his personality and because in his case being troubled actually made sense. That he is strong enough to deal with the fate that was thrust upon him.
But you think that depicting him the way he was described will make people see him as less of a heroic shadowhunter?
Andre wrote: "What? Seriously, what was that supposed to mean?Were you implying Cassandra Clare would have said no to the cover? Hello... You are obviously a fan but you are talking about the woman that couldn..."
Why do books made me think so much!!
Okay I agree on what you said about Cassandra Clare.
I know a lot of people love jem especially because of his personality. Even though the jem I imagine does not match the one on the cover, is it so wrong for me to like an "un-jem-like" cover? When I look at the cover I still think about the storyline and jem's character.
I'm sure true readers/ fans won't judge too much on the cover. Your discussion is valid but since the series is over I can't pinpoint anymore how jem should actually look.
Wells the infernal devices trailers on YouTube depict jem as someone completely different from this cover and jem's actual character. Have you seen those?
i think it looks exactly like jem from my head. silver hair, part British part Shanghainese, kind eyes...GUYS IT COULD BE SO MUCH WORSE!!
Jenny wrote: "i think it looks exactly like jem from my head. silver hair, part British part Shanghainese, kind eyes...GUYS IT COULD BE SO MUCH WORSE!!"Yes!! It could be much worse. Watch the infernal devices trailer.
Jem is Asian! Not black! He has very pale skin and you can see the silver coming through in his hair. It's when he first started turning. Plus CC doesn't get to choose the covers she has minimum say and that's it. A lot of it s the photographer and the simon&schuster
Brittney wrote: "Andre wrote: "No, not " C'mon guys, really". You are making excuses and expect us to do the same. You fish for tiny details to justify that the makers did a bad job. Fact is that kid has no silver ..."Best reply ever!! Honestly Andre just let other people have there opinion it's clear you have yours and not everyone is going to agree with you and your clearly not going get over this or agree with us so let's just agree to dissagree
Agree to disagree is just another way of saying: I don't care about your opinion.Doesn't work with me. Fact is Jem's hair is bright silver, there is no denying it and as a matter of fact you do not come along as perticularly logic and reasonable with your It's when he first started turning. Plus CC doesn't get to choose the covers she has minimum say and that's it. A lot of it s the photographer and the simon&schuster "argument" for two reasons:
1) The model is at least in his late teens, Jem became addicted to demon blood when he was still a child, at the age of the model his hair was fully silver.
2) Clare took credit for chosing this model and stated herself that Simon & Schuster wanted her ok for the cover.
So what you said is totally invalid.
well he has a cane so it kind of has to be jem
I like that guy as Jem, I actually could fit him into the book. But there is a tiny little problem, I imagined Jem to be skinny, and pale, and kind of lanky.
Sara wrote: "I like that guy as Jem, I actually could fit him into the book. But there is a tiny little problem, I imagined Jem to be skinny, and pale, and kind of lanky."And you should since this is how he is described. He is dying from demon poison, no way would he look that healthy.
Margaret wrote: "well he has a cane so it kind of has to be jem"
Seriously? You come with that? You do realize that is the some last straw argument right? Because, ask yourself this: If he had green skin and tusks and hold that cane, would he still be Jem?
I didn't care about TID's covers. When they could not make a better Will on the cover, I care less about the rest. I wanted to wrap my books with plain paper as their covers but it turned out ugly so I just leave them the way they are.Is it Jem? I think they grabbed a handsome young man with a cane for the cover, but they changed the hair & the eyes, to fit Jem. I suppose they made him much paler too. When they got a not so attractive picture as a result, they photoshopped it again, changed bits here and there.
That was their final Jem, as we can see on the cover.
That is a possible scenario, but then, why didn't Clare mention this? And to be honest, a paler and slightly sicker looking picture would have worked better because it fits more. And like I said, I doubt that the models resemblance to Will is truly coincidental, not considered how obsessed Clare is with his family line and looks, seriously his type is mentioned/featured in 4 of the so far 6 Bane Chronicles book and all her TMI and TID books.
I wonder if anyone ever asked Cassie this question. If there is, I think she can answer the question in 3 ways.She will simply say that Jem is her creation and that is the Jem in her mind and no one can beat a writer about her characters.
She might answer vaguely about her interference for the covers of her books and how they ended up according to the publisher.
She might answer that with a totally different topic.
That answer of yours already made my day :DYou should write her official biography.
To be serious again:
These are three very possible scenarios considered what I know about her. Of course in case of the first point that would mean that not even the Jem in her head matches the one in her book. Not so unlikely considered that she had described her characters differently several times. I did not really look for her characters that are stereotypical white but the others that might be considered non-white be her and fact is that Magnus changed skin color, if it was mentioned at all, and both Jordan and Raphael changed skin and hair color over the course of her books, and while Magnus and Jordan might become darker due to tan, with Raphael that is not a possibility.
In CoB he was introduced as a boy, not much older than Jace and probably six inches shorter. He was thin-boned, with the big dark eyes and honey-colored skin of a Diego Rivera painting. However later in the same book he was described to have brown skin. In CoFA there is suddenly talk about the pallor of his face and in CoLS his hair was dark brown. Also he changed from looking not much older than Jace to looking like a 14 year old.
in CoFA Jordan was at first described with brown hair that fell into his eyes and a few pages afterwards with longish black hair that tumbled over his forehead and down his neck in curls, and brown skin that hadn’t lost its summery tan yet. Later on in the same book his hair is described as dark hair and also light brown hair. In CoLS he is described as having olive tone to his skin that echoed his Italian heritage, apart from the fact that having Italian heritage doesn't mean you have such skin tone, even if you are full Italian you can be as pale and blond as the stereotypical Finnish bikini model, but there is also the problem that his hair is, again, stated as dark later on. And mark there is no hint that he had lost any tan or dyed his hair or anything. I can understand mistaking very dark brown hair for black hair, but light brown for dark brown or black? All the time and in bright light, as was often the case here?
And as for Magnus: Am I supposed to believe that in CoB his face is maple-syrupe or golden but his hands are white? That is a weird way of getting tanned. Not to mention that this is how he looks in hot 21st century New York but in rainy and smoggy late 19th century London he suddenly has brown skin.
So when it comes to Clair and the look of her characters... I put more stock in Shyamalan writing consistent dialogue. At least he has written it equally bad for years now.
Well, according to Cassandra Clare it is...
Abby xx wrote: "Well, according to Cassandra Clare it is..."And according to Cassandra Clare Tessa and Will care about Jem and Charlotte is an intelligent woman and capable leader and Mortmain a clever and dangerous antagonist and Magnus truly loves Alec. I wouldn't put much stock in what she claims.
The fact stands, this cover model looks nothing like Jem was described. Jem has silver hair and eyes, is thin and sickly looking, he is extremely pale. That cover model is nothing of those things.
Andre wrote: "Abby xx wrote: "Well, according to Cassandra Clare it is..."And according to Cassandra Clare Tessa and Will care about Jem and Charlotte is an intelligent woman and capable leader and Mortmain a ..."
I'm not saying that it's Cassandra Clare's fault, but she can hardly argue against the publishers, can she? I would be happy enough that they have actually published my book! I wouldn't dare argue with them!
Well like I said, I would not put much stock in what she claims. However she did claim that she had rejected the first cover which was more like the one of Clockwork Angel and that she had chosen this model and had approved of the cover. So if that is true, I would say it is her fault. And considered how heavy they manipulated this already, would you honestly think they would not have been able to at least lighten his hair and skin?Allegedly the model is named Forrest Hoffmann and either way he, just like the cover model, doesn't look one bit like Jem, in fact he looks like Will. And that is what many thought when seeing the cover, that it shows Will. I suspect Clare had chosen consicously or unconsciously someone of the same type as Will, since she seems a tad obsessed with that type.
That does look like Jem! His parents were Chinese and British. He had the silver hair and eyes. everything is in place from my eyes. I think the cover is great. <3
The only thing the guy has in common with Jem is how European he looks, although Clare at the same time always seemed to stress that he doesn't. Well she is nothing if not inconsistent. Tessa's reactions towards him and Will are already pretty unrealistic.And in what way does the guy on the cover have silver hair and eyes? You are one of many who claim that, but none could ever back that claim up. So, can you provide a strong basis for your claim?
I always assumed it was Will ...! <3
Andre wrote: "Well like I said, I would not put much stock in what she claims. However she did claim that she had rejected the first cover which was more like the one of Clockwork Angel and that she had chosen this model and had approved of the cover. So if that is true, I would say it is her fault. "Fair enough, Andre.
Mizuki wrote: "Fair enough, Andre."Sadly. No idea why so many still don't notice. Wasn't the whole thing with the film enough?
Sakshi wrote: "I always assumed it was Will ...! <3"
Which is in my mind understandable. Based on the descriptions in the books, the guy on the cover looks like Will. I remember a GR who stated that he/she thought it was Will as well until the cane came into view and it was all "this is supposed to be Jem?"
And technically this could have been me.
Allegedly this is the cover model: http://37.media.tumblr.com/e6875ab8f0...
And he truly doesn't look like Jem at all.
Based on how he was described I guess Jem might look like these two:
http://www.jpopasia.com/img/album-cov...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8h-S4p4gDcY...
message 179:
by
Cassie 'The Thinker Go Go Go Go' Mis. Roben Goodfellow'\Isabelle Lightwood
(new)
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rated it 5 stars
He looks kind of Asian, and he has the sliver hair and the sliver\grey eyes all going for him. Although he does look like he wasn't as sick than he uselly does. But to me that's as close as your going to get to Jem. 
Now that looks like Will
In what way is this hair silver? And you do realize that Jem's paleness was constantly mentioned right?You know, like I asked Jelly above: can you provide a strong basis for your claim?
´
Plus the CA cover could just as well be Henry or Gabriel, it is so vague.
IT IS JEM ON THE COVER OK! will and tessa are on the other two, and this IS jem, whether you think it looks like him or not is imaterial. it IS jem. end of. god, this thread is pointless. i saw it and thought 'whoever thinks it isnt jem are complete thickheaded idiots' its jem. end of. no need for discussion. :(
You are not discussing. You are insulting.Your entire post, spelling and grammar errors and all, is just that: insulting.
Instead of "shouting" that this is Jem in your mind, you should actually say why. Because none of all the defenders so far have ever come up with something past "who else is it supposed to be," "Clare said its Jem," or "That is silver." Despite the fact that its clearly not silver, and no that is not something subjective, that is objective since silver is clearly defined color. That he doesn't fit Jem's description at all. Everything ignored.
So instead of ranting like an immature brat, start to grow some actually double X chromosomes and be a woman about it.
message 183:
by
Cassie 'The Thinker Go Go Go Go' Mis. Roben Goodfellow'\Isabelle Lightwood
(new)
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rated it 5 stars
Okay, I'll give you a reason about why it is Jem. Reason one- Yes the guy on the cover has sliver hair, rather or not you think it's sliver or not. You can see that it is Sliver if you look at it really closely.
Reason two- Besides just having the sliver hair his eye's are also a light slivery color. and you can see the little bit of Asian in his eyes. It's not a lot but it is there.
Reason Three- Along with the sliver hair and sliver eyes and his eye's looking some what Asian, he's also carrying that cane that is always coming up. Like in fights when he's carrying it and he can pull the sword out of it.
Reason four: Because you never read about Will, Henry, Gabriel, or Gabriel's brother carrying a cane. It was always 'Jem pulled the sword from the end of his cane' or something along those lines.
Reason Five: Dispeit how sick Jem always seemed to be in the books he did have days where he felt and Looked much better. So it could just be that Cassandra Clare wanted him to look healthier on the cover and not as pail. Seeing as if he was any pailer than that, he'd look like a ghost next the all the dark colors in the back ground.
Ok, since unlike many others here you had the decency to state your reasons, I will take a look at them:Reason One - That is the same several have said before: that this is silver and nothing else. The only difference in your case is that you suggest that I have to "look at it really closely." That is either a hidden insult at all people who say that the cover model has black hair or that is a really desperate attempt to just believe that this is silver.
Look, Jem's hair was always described as of light color, will you honestly say, that this is a light color? When we first "see" him in Clockwork Angel his hair is described to be an odd bright silver color, like an untarnished shilling and this is how an untarnished shilling looks like: http://static-numista.com/catalogue/p...
If you want to see a more fitting version using the same model you should try this picture: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/201...
Nobody would have to "look at it really closely" to see that this is silver/grey hair on his head and silver eyes.
Reason Two – His eyes are "silver" on posters. On a paper back you wouldn't see them.
Postersize: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jhqqrBZ3OuE...
Paperback: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20...
However his eyes were actually described to be shining in the dimness.
So while his eyes are silver this only further highlights to me that the cover looks the way it is because Clare & Co didn't want it to be any different, after all would you really claim that with all the shining runes (which is also an inconsistency) they couldn't photoshop the hair and skin? And yes she wanted it so, if not she must have lied when she claimed to have approved of this.
Also what is this "little bit of Asian in his eyes. It's not a lot but it is there"? To me that statement is so generic and stereotypical that I can't put any value in it. What is this "little bit of Asian"?
Reason Three – The cane… Seriously, what is it with the cane? Some people here say this is Jem just because of it. So he carries the cane… So what? Why is that of any significance? Would Will be Jem if he carried Jem's cane? Would Tessa be Jem if she carried the cane? Why on earth is the cane of any significance here? Can you explain that?
Reason Four – And that is your reason why this cane is significant? Well if this is so significant than maybe you should go back to Clockwork Princess when our "heroes" fought against the Benedict worm: Jem's eyes lit with understanding, and he tossed his cane toward Will. But even if you say "well this was after the Clockwork Prince cover came out, there is still this piece of information from Clockwork Angel: The cane had belonged to Jem's father, Will knew, and had been designed for him by a Shadowhunter weapons maker in Beijing. So considered this, the guy on the cover could just as well have been Jem's father. Plus apparently Clare doesn't know much about Beijing. A foreigner running around with a dragon-headed cane, since this suggests it is a Long and not a western dragon of any sort, would probably get into trouble because of it.
Reason Five – While Jem was described with some more color in some scenes this never went beyond:
a slight tinge of color to his cheeks
there was color in his cheeks
His hair mussed and his cheeks burning with color
she saw that he had high color in his face
flushed himself, the color very visible against his pale skin
His face had gone a patchy white and red color.
He flushed, the color dark against his pale skin
This is not the strong color of this model, plus the model his obviously well fed and probably has packed some muscles, unlike Jem whose thinness was highlighted several times.
And yes Jem might look like a ghost, which would fit considered how she had described him:
The young man who appeared at the mouth of the alley was pale in the lamplight – paler even than he usually was, which was quite pale indeed.
No wonder that in the moonlight his pale skin seemed to shine like Will's witchlight.
It seemed hard to imagine that anyone quite so ethereal-looking could possibly eat toast.
His gear made him appear all the more startlingly pale
Jem stood a few feet away, looking very pale.
There were times, when the illness was at its worst, when all the color drained even from his eyes, leaving them horribly pale, nearly white, with that black speck of pupil in the center like a speck of black ash on snow.
He wore loose dark trousers tied at the waist, and a white shirt only a few shades lighter than his skin.
He was all silver and ashes, not like Will’s strong colors of blue and black and gold.
He was as white as paper
He was as white as his nightshirt, the lids of his closed eyes dark blue
He was very pale
It’s why I look so—so ghostly; it’s what drains the color from my eyes and hair, even my skin.
He had gone very white
The red Marks stood out like fire on his pale skin
He had the ethereal look of angels in paintings
The darkness of the gear made his skin look even paler, his hair and eyes more silver than ever.
Jem's face paled even more markedly
He wore a light gray coat that made his hair and eyes look more silver than ever
He wore a gray wool jacket and trousers, against which his silvery hair looked nearly white.
His thin face glowed with light
And keep in mind, this is only the description up to the end of Clockwork Prince. So he would still need to be pale if Clare had actually bothered to keep it consistent with her description instead of falling back to her preference of Will's type again. Which is in my mind what happened here: she chose a model that looked like Will. Not surprising all her other books.
omg. only jem has the cane. even if he lends it to will in the fight it doesnt mean will would have jem's cane on the cover. and will is on the cover of CA so it is jem. people, people.
I think the whole point that the OP is trying to make is that just because the model is holding the cane should not justify which character it is. Yes, we are to believe that it is Jem, but this character in no way looks like him. (At least not the Jem that Clare has described)
Jade wrote: "I think the whole point that the OP is trying to make is that just because the model is holding the cane should not justify which character it is. Yes, we are to believe that it is Jem, but this ch..."Thank you. That is my main point against the "he has a cane" argument. Would you apply the logic of the cane argument you could say the guy on the CA cover is not Will since Will was never (or at least barely) described with a hat.
The guy fits Will's description completely and considered how often both Will's and Jace's physical types occur in Clare's works (trust me, nearly all of the guys we see Magnus date or fancy throughout the books look like either like Will or like Jace) I cannot believe that this is a coincidence.
Perhaps it wouldn't bother me as much if Clare wouldn't be given credit to haven an "Asian" guy on the cover despite the fact that this guy looks more European than anything else. And when people point this out, especially that the guy looks nothing like Jem, they mostly get attacked for it. I am really not the only one in that regard.
If Clare truly wanted the cover to represent Jem, why did she chose this Will-look alike? And if she had big influence on the cover, as she had claimed, then why didn't she demand that the guy's skin and hair color get lighter. Hobby artists on Deviantart can do that, so these professional designers would not be able to?
That sounds pretty hard to believe.
I always identified the guy on the cover to be was Jem even though he does not look like how I imagined him. Simple as that
And why did you do that? If he doesn't look like Jem, why identify him as such?
Andre wrote: "And why did you do that? If he doesn't look like Jem, why identify him as such?"Because when I see so called characters on the cover I don't get angry on how they don't look like how I imagined them. They might look like what other people might have imagined them because everyone has a different way they think characters look like in a book.
I'm pretty sure that's Gabriel Lightwood... for some Reason I think is him
Alexander wrote: "I'm pretty sure that's Gabriel Lightwood... for some Reason I think is him"Well it would fit better, that is for sure.
Maddy wrote: "Because when I see so called characters on the cover I don't get angry on how they don't look like how I imagined them. They might look like what other people might have imagined them because everyone has a different way they think characters look like in a book. "
That is not even remotely close to an answer to my question.
I asked you on what basis did you label the model as representing Jem when he doesn't look like him.
guys, I just checked in he Shadowhunters wikia and is Jem in the cover.http://shadowhunters.wikia.com/wiki/C...
Alexander wrote: "guys, I just checked in he Shadowhunters wikia and is Jem in the cover.http://shadowhunters.wikia.com/wiki/C..."
Do I really have to elaborate as to why the wikia is an unreliable source?
Maddy wrote: "Uh excuse me, I read the question and answered it how you asked it. You aksed me why I identified him as such and I answered. So yes, I did. You weren't just expecting a different answer."
No you didn't answer, what you wrote was: Because when I see so called characters on the cover I don't get angry on how they don't look like how I imagined them. They might look like what other people might have imagined them because everyone has a different way they think characters look like in a book.
At most that would have been an answer had I asked why you are cool with the cover, and even then it would only have been a vague one, but not an answer to my question as to why you identify the cover model as Jem. So basically I asked a legitimate question and you chose not to answer it but give some totally unrelated statement instead. That, by defintion, is not answering a question.
Maddy wrote: "All of my friends and identified the guy on the cover as Jem even if he doesnt match what we imagined him to look like even though there is similar characteristics. "
So you think the guy on the cover is Jem because your friends do?
Maddy wrote: "So you cannot say that the guy does not look like him because someone who has read the books and liked thwm might think he does."
Did you just say that because "some who has read the books and liked them" thinks that is Jem I am totally justified in saying that it's not? Or did you imply that I think the cover does not show Jem because other people think it does?
Either way I seriously don't understand why you would even write that weird sentence in the first place.
Because believe it or not, another person's opinion as to who the cover shows, has no impact on who I think it shows. My opinion about that is based solely on how much the cover and the description in the book match. And they barely match.
Andre wrote: "When we are first introduced to Jem he is described like this:The young man who appeared at the mouth of the alley was pale in the lamplight—paler even than he usually was, which was quite pale in..." Actually, Jem is asian.
No, he isn't. He is what Americans would call a Hapa. His mother is "Chinese" and his father "British" (I am not gonna comment on Clare's screwed up portrayals of her own world). And based on his description you could just as well say he is White.He is just "Asian" for people who equalize "Half-Asian" with "Asian."
Not that Clare didn't try to constantly claim in the books that he is "Chinese" but like I said, I am not gonna comment on her screw ups regarding backstory, characterization and history.
Andre wrote: "No, he isn't. He is what Americans would call a Hapa. "I am American and have never heard the term Hapa. What is that???
Well I don't know how widespread it is outside of California, but I read it several times. The term "Hapa" in California refers to someone of mixed European and Asian/Pacific Islander descent. Usually it seems to be used refer to a first generation mix, but the "official" definition seems to have no limits, so some people go way back in the line to apply that to themselves and boy can it get crazy. In such extreme cases you can compare it to the infamous "1/16 Cherokee" or the "1 percent black person who the goes around shouting he/she is black," it can get that ridiculous. Technically by that definition a huge part of Europeans, as well as Central, East and Southeast Asian as well as Pacific Islanders are actually Hapas.
maybe cassy couldnt find a model that close to jem in description so she persavered and did the best she could. i know, why doesnt someone email cassy asking her who is on the cover of CP1? just to clear this matter up.
he's only part Chinese, and the coverboy looks slightly asian. I had this thought too, but it is still a wonderful cover, and the light will effect the hair colour.
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