Clockwork Prince
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That is not Jem on the cover
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Mizuki
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rated it 1 star
Jul 03, 2013 05:44AM
Yes, it's. At first I thought it's Will on CP's cover.
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I actually did not mind who is on the cover of Clockwork Prince. Cassie said it was Jem, then I can agree or disagree with her. None had actually stopped me from reading the book.I love all TMI's first trilogy covers and not so fond of the next ones. CoLS' cover even looks like some romance novel's cover.
Back to CP. Maybe the artist did not fully understand Cassie's explanation about Jem, or better artist would mean more money. CA for example. Will was strikingly handsome, with a face that couldn't be ignored by girls. But CA's cover doesn't give me such impression.
As far as I know Cassandra Clare knew the cover artist: http://www.racebending.com/v4/feature...But as much as she complains about racism and the like I think she didn't do any different. First by insisting that Magnus was just "Asian" and even claiming that this was a core of his personality, no idea why since he dresses and acts like an American from the 21st century and also since she sees him as Asian first and nothing else. Not to mention that the basic problem is the same: the cover doesn't even closely reflect the described character.
According to the interview, Cassie didn't have the final say to the covers chosen. Also that the cover should be Jem, portrayed by Asian model. He might not be Jem, but was on the cover to present Jem.
As I said before, for me the best covers are CoB (original, not movie one), CoA & CoG. Having Will as the cover of CA was not helping my imagination. For me...they are much better without faces.
Not entriely, she apparently had the consultation option and she apparently could tell them what sort of cover she wanted, so I think she had alot of power there when chosing how the cover of CP would look like. And there was the same thing again, she referred to the model as Asian, nothing else. Personally I wouldn't do that. Even if at the East Coast of the USA half-Asians are usually referred to just as Asians she could have said something like "give me a person of mixed Chinese and British ancestry" and considered the demographics of the USA I am sure there would have been alot of models who fit that description. The covers for TMI were better chosen I think, except for CoG, I never understood why Alec was on that one, he barely did anything, Simon would have made more sense in my eyes. Especially since that was the only book of TMI where the name actually fit a major element of the book.
I think it is a matter of perspective. I think Cassie generalised us all as Asian without being racist about that. Since I know now that she is lacking in Indonesian people and history, I think she just need to learn more about Asian people.Many of Indonesian also do that with westerners. All white people are the same for some of us, regardless their nationalities. They call American, Australian & European 'bule' for their pale skin colours. Westerners who do not know this fact would feel offended.
Well then it's the old problem of ignorance. And personally I think she really should have put more effort into it. I mean even in that regard there is nothing new so far in her books. It is basically the same as with Nacy Kwan back when she started as an actress, according to her back then mixed bloods were usually cast to play full blooded Chinese; and the thing with Magnus and Jem sounds similar to me. They are supposed to represent Indonesia and China as it seems.
It's not her fault, because at that time, the cover was NEW she hadn't seen the second cover yet, and I think that if she could, she would have swapped them around.
What? She could make sure that they picked the model but she could not make sure that they use photoshop?
Seriously? You're telling me that they used absolutely NO photoshop on that cover. That is impossible, and they can't just go around the world and go "AHA! You look like a Jem, come over here i'm taking your photo for my bookcover" Because that would be creepy and insane, so they can't get everything right. And as I stated above, this cover looks like Jem, but since we've seen the other cover we just think it looks less like Jem.
Nurlely wrote: "Many of Indonesian also do that with westerners. "The people you're talking about here are the laymen, but the problem is, Clare is a professional author, she has the responsibility to learn about the stuff she's going to write into her books. If she wanted to write her character with an Indonesian-Westerner mixed parentage, she should have known what she's writing about. She should have done her research, for goodness' sake. It's part of the job.
If she didn't do that, she's one damn lazy person and is undeserving of her title as an "author".
Technically, no writer is under ANY obligation to do research. If they wish, all they have to do is write what they want, turn the manuscript in and expect the editors like myself, to do the research for them. All Cassie Clare might be guilty of is skipping the research and EVERY writer can do that either on purpose or by accident. OR I am thinking that maybe she DID do all the necessary research and perhaps she just couldn't get the description exactly to everyone's satisfaction. All readers take in that description differently.
Gabby wrote: "Seriously? You're telling me that they used absolutely NO photoshop on that cover. That is impossible, and they can't just go around the world and go "AHA! You look like a Jem, come over here i'm t..."Of course they used photoshop. It is obvious by the shining markings, so they could have done some more and make the hair silver. The face of the model is secondary the fact is that they ignored such an obvious feature as his hair color. It's like having a book about the Orcs of Warcraft, desribing them as Green and Brown and then having them being pink on the cover.
☢ Catherine ☯ the Psychotic Comedian wrote: "You're are right. Jem was black, whereas the man on the cover is Asian.
Pretty messy, if you ask me."
I must have missed the passage you got this from...but there was text indicating he was from asia. Could you point me to the part that described him as black? Just thought I might have missed an important part of the book..
Pretty messy, if you ask me."
I must have missed the passage you got this from...but there was text indicating he was from asia. Could you point me to the part that described him as black? Just thought I might have missed an important part of the book..
Pauline wrote: "☢ Catherine ☯ the Psychotic Comedian wrote: "You're are right. Jem was black, whereas the man on the cover is Asian.Pretty messy, if you ask me."
I must have missed the passage you got this fro..."
Jem is pale. That person was most likely trolling.
he looks closer to magnus then jem but still not quite.
Andre wrote: "Gabby wrote: "Seriously? You're telling me that they used absolutely NO photoshop on that cover. That is impossible, and they can't just go around the world and go "AHA! You look like a Jem, come o..."Well, at least it's a person. Seriously, people with such high expectations these days. NOT EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE PERFECT!
Andre wrote: "Pauline wrote: "☢ Catherine ☯ the Psychotic Comedian wrote: "You're are right. Jem was black, whereas the man on the cover is Asian.Pretty messy, if you ask me."
I must have missed the passage ..."
Don't even get me started on Catherine.Just ignore her stupid troll posts. IGNORE THEM! They're not even worth reading.
That's what I am telling everyone who falls for her every time, this time I didn't bother anymore because apparently it has no use. They still fall for it.As for NOT EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE PERFECT!
This is not about that, but about doing your best. When you look at the cover they obviously heavily photoshopped it (the light, the background, the shining runes), but they apparently did not bother to get the hair done right, despite the fact that it is an even more defining feature of his looks, much more than the runes.
Well at least they did something. Like I said before, everyone these days have too high expectations!!
By what standards is that expectation too high?
Taryn wrote: "Technically, no writer is under ANY obligation to do research. If they wish, all they have to do is write what they want"No writer is under ANY obligation to do research? Great, it's just great. If I were to take your words to heart, then I would know why we're facing so many "best sellers" which are so poorly researched and getting the facts all wrong, for example :
(1) According to Breaking Dawn, Brazil has a West Coast.
(2) According to Colleen Houck's Tiger Saga, Indians celebrate The Double Seventh Festival, which is a festival celebrated by the Chinese, Japaneses and Koreans.
(3) According to Twilight, teachers in American highschool can take students' blood sample without any parental permission.
(4) According to Clockwork Angel, Chinese referred to the Westerners as "devils".
These are only the few examples I can think of for the moment, there should be more equally ridiculous stuff out there.
Thank you for letting me know how those poorly researched novels came into being. I think lazy authors and equally lazy editors are to blame.
Novelists are supposed to be making believes with their novels, but lousy authors are making us unable to suppress our disbelief these days.
I second that.Ok, technically in Breaking Dawn they were referring to the western part of Rio de Janeiro, but still that is a stretch since even by the map of Rio that "West coast" is technically south west and a slightly weird starting point if you want to get out in the ocean for some small island since that part of Rio is barely even open to the see but there are several big and small islands there that probably can be reach by foot already.
However the other examples are definitely right.
And you know if its a parody or general comedy its ok if the geography and other stuff is messed up because that is part of the deal. But TMI and TID are neither of that. And they are not totally made up either. And despite what many people claim, when you have so many references to the real world in a book people do tend to take it with a grain of truth, so yes it is important to know what you are talking about. Especially when you tackle difficult issues. But CoB throws all sorts of nonsense out one of the "best" would be when Hodge claims that people usually cry when they are upset or happy but when they are frustrated. No one does that in such a situation.
But let's take a more well known examples, simply not books:
Every fucking Roland Emmerich film since Independence Day. The characters are stereotypes, the science makes no sense and in the case of 10000 BC the flora, fauna and climate is all over the place. And that film was not marketed as fantasy.
Andre wrote: "I second that.I don't care if it was Clare's editors who looked up all the history books and documents for her then highlighting all the key points for her sake, then read those materials out loud in front of her, still as an author Clare should know those historical/mythical details before she wrote stuff based upon those materials. Is that too much to ask for?
Aside from Clare, there's another lousy author who wrote a lousy historical paranormal series, called "Prophecy of the Sisters".
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/...
I swear after reading 50 pages of the first book, I still had no idea the story is supposed to take place in the Victorian era.>_<
Ok, technically in Breaking Dawn they were referring to the western part of Rio de Janeiro, but still that is a stretch since even by the map of Rio that "West coast" is technically..."
Anyway, it's still weird.
You know that "second something" means supporting something right?And no it is definitely not too much to ask for to have an author do the necessary work to make it believable.
And now that you mention it, I really cannot remember any Victorian customs in the first part of CA.
By the way if you want some more examples of Meyer:
In her world crossing a vampire with 25 chromosomal pairs with a human with 23 chromosomal pairs results in a child with 24 chromosomal pairs.
And you know what I am excited for?
To see whether the one above will ever explain why asking for a cover model with silver hair is too high an expectation. ;)
Andre wrote: "You know that "second something" means supporting something right?I know, I know.
I'm just unable to suppress my disbelief when I was told authors are under no obligation to do research.
And now that you mention it, I really cannot remember any Victorian customs in the first part of CA.
Enough readers had already pointed out Clare's "Victorian" characters talk and behave like they are NYC kids from the 21st century.
By the way if you want some more examples of Meyer:
In her world crossing a vampire with 25 chromosomal pairs with a human with 23 chromosomal pairs results in a child with 24 chromosomal pairs."
*blinks* WHAT THE...?
Well, I know next to nothing about chromosomal pairs and stuff, and if I really, really need to write these kind of things into my story, I'll make sure I have read enough about them before I write anything.
To see whether the one above will ever explain why asking for a cover model with silver hair is too high an expectation. ;)
I guess laziness, carelessness, not understanding the characters enough and DO NOT DO THE RESEARCH are responsible for this problem you faced...
Believe me its better not to surpress your disbelief. Especially in fiction something like that should be used as rarely as possible, the more you need it the worse the fiction is.I know a bit about genetics and I can guarantee you that a mix like Renesmee is not really posssible. Sure mules have 63 chromosomes (horses have 64 and donkeys 62), however the different structure and number usually prevents the chromosomes from pairing up properly and creating successful embryos, rendering most mules infertile. And this is just horses and donkeys. Physically humans and meyerpires have less in common than humans have with fish, so Renesmee is totally impossible, no matter how Meyer tried to explain it.
And like I said, we will see for the rationalisation why our "expectations are too high."
Andre wrote: "Believe me its better not to surpress your disbelief. Especially in fiction something like that should be used as rarely as possible, the more you need it the worse the fiction is.*nod nods* but still those novels which make me unable to suppress my disbelief always measure up for some good LOLs.
, so Renesmee is totally impossible, no matter how Meyer tried to explain it.
I don't need to know anything about DNA, I simply know Renesmee's existence is ridiculous; because Meyer had stated that her
And like I said, we will see for the rationalisation why our "expectations are too high.
I have no doubt about that, don't worry.
To be honest, the guy on the cover looks nothing like I picture Jem, just as the girl and guy on the first and third cover of the series don't look like I imagine Tessa and Will to look. So I don't see/make a connection between the cover models and the characters in the books, and just assume the cover models are supposed to be random people dressed appropriately for the time period. Guy on the cover =/= Jem.
I accepted long ago that book covers don't always represent the book's content, are just meant to draw the reader in, and are usually only loosely connected to the book's content/setting/characters.
Ergo, to me, the cover model is just some guy who is dressed the way the characters in the series are apparently dressing.
Oh it is really sad. I had one author trying to INSIST her facts were correct about a country. And it wad blatantly clear she didn't do ANY research. She kept telling me that Egypt was in South America. I even showed her a map to prove her wrong and I wasn't going any further in her manuscript until she did her own research and fact checking. I haven't seen her in a month now.
.........
...... *nearly slap my face*
WHAT?!?!?!????
She actually thought Egypt was in South America? In every Egyptian movie especially ancient Egypt we see African fauna, their gods, which are widely known all represent African fauna. The Egyptians look nothing like South American natives, how could she make that mistake?
inga wrote: "To be honest, the guy on the cover looks nothing like I picture Jem, just as the girl and guy on the first and third cover of the series don't look like I imagine Tessa and Will to look. So I don't..."But with them at least the hair fit. But Jem's hair is something that sets him apart everywhere in the world. That is not something common and the kid is supposed to be Jem, so if they don't get such a significant feature right they really did a bad job. And its not as though it couldn't have been done. Laypeople can do it so they should too.
I guess they thought the detail wasn't significant enough to matter. Or they just didn't care.
Possibly both, but that would only proof in my eyes that whoever is responsible for that has no idea about what was written. A guy looking like Jem would always stand out, his hair would be the first thing people would notice.
Andre wrote: ".........
...... *nearly slap my face*
WHAT?!?!?!????
She actually thought Egypt was in South America? In every Egyptian movie especially ancient Egypt we see African fauna, their gods, which are ..."
Oh yes! I was really trying to tell her over and over again that she was wrong. RESEARCH!!! USE IT! LOVE IT, AUTHORS!!!
Taryn wrote: "Oh yes! I was really trying to tell her over and over again that she was wrong. RESEARCH!!! USE IT! LOVE IT, AUTHORS!!! "*sighs* Why? I know sometime editors need to look up information, bringing in different books for authors to pick up for their stories. But it's still authors' responsibility to digest the materials! For goodness' sake!
That is why I think she should not be given credit for it, despite chosing an "Asian" model over a white one, since the main problem is still there. The picture does not fit the description, and it's not a minor detail they got wrong.
She didn't make the cover therefore she shouldn't be given ANY credit. The writing is hers, but the cover is not.
Gosh, do you ever read any of the links? She chose the model and she had something to say in it, according to her own words. And she did take credit for hit, if not she should have said that this cover does not show Jem, but she did not. Stop trying to get us to shut up by repeating the same thing so many others have said already and which already didn't work the first time since it straight clashes with the facts.
And so what? Back to my point that NO ONE CAN LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME AS JEM BECAUSE JEM IS NOT REAL.
Gabby wrote: "And so what? Back to my point that NO ONE CAN LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME AS JEM BECAUSE JEM IS NOT REAL."You don't say! No shit, Sherlock.
Oh, yeah, so mature.
Good one Inga.As to Gabby, again: No one is complaining that the guy doesn't look exactly like Jem, but what is wrong with the cover is that it misses his most significant physical traits, the hair and the eyes. The hair is black on the cover and not silver, because if it weren't it wouldn't be so dark in the direct light. And the eyes aren't silver either.
A more truthful depiction of Jem would be this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/26e2c54df3...
The hair is correct and the eyes and skin could fit as well.
I think they wanted it to match with the darkness of the colour, and from what I can see, the hair is not exactly black, more like a grey-silver. And I can't even see the colour of the eyes.
You can see the color of the eyes, silver eyes would be easily seen on this cover. In addition "match with the darkness of the colour" is a ridiculous excuse and the hair is not grey silver either. Look at the shoulders, the head is standing in bright light so if it were indeed silver it would be much brither. In addition the silver as Jem's hair was described as bright silver like an untarnished shilling. There is no ambiguity in it.
I do think it would look horrible if the silver was a really light silver on the cover, though. Since most of the things on the cover are dark.
That doesn't matter. If a cover is supposed to represent a character than the character has to match the description in the book. That is what is most important for the cover. If the background doesn't fit then the background needs to change. For instance they could have used a different style for the covers in the first place. Kind of like this one: http://fav.me/d3gd3cvIt screems previous centuries.
I actually like it although it doesn't really look like how everyone thinks it should.
Are you referring to the background or the cover model now?
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