Rachmi ’s Comments (group member since Mar 31, 2016)

Rachmi ’s comments from the J.R.R. Tolkien Epic Reads group.

Agree with you Sydney, Aredhel might have opportunity to leave Eol and go back to Gondolin. I'm not sure that she knows that she was tricked, though. She seemed happy with Eol before Maeglin was born. I mean she only wanted to go back to Gondolin when she told Maeglin about it and realized that she missed her brother and her kin.

And thank you so much very much for your explanation, Sydney! I'm sure you don't know how helpful you are :) You're kind of open my eyes. And it makes more sense to me now.

I don't know about you, but when I read Tolkien books, be it The Hobbit, LOTR and especially Silmarillion there's a sense that the narrator doesn't know about the whole story. Hence I, as a reader, only get a bit about it. There's some kind of hole (?) in the story because the narrator tells me only the thing that they know. So it makes the story feel more like a history, a folk lore to me instead of a work of fiction. And with the "of" and "about" definition you just told me, it adds the feeling.

I'm glad I decided to ask this silly question :D So again, thank you!

As for illustration by John Howe and Alan Smith, I haven't gotten the one that suits with chapter 13-16. But from what I just saw, I think there will be more illustrations for next chapters, especially chapter about Gondolin.

Sorry I'm way behind with illustration by Ted Nasmith from illustrated edition. So here they are:

Chapter 13, The Burning of the Ships



I love this illustration. It's so bright I can almost feel the burning.

Another one from chapter 13, called Maedhros’s Rescue from Thangorodrim.



Chapter 14. It's called The Gates of Sirion.



Chapter 15. There's no illustration for this chapter.

Chapter 16, called Eöl Welcomes Aredhel.



And another illustration that already posted by Wita, called Eöl is Led to the Walls. I posted here again, because I really liked the picture :D

Wita wrote: "Heidi,

Yep, I finally figured out how to post those pics from mobile device and actually, it's so easy! lol .. Thanks to you, kak Rach!

Of course, those Silmarillion-Tolkien fan art are always a..."

Couldn't agree more, Wita! I love illustration too. It's surely adding my reading experience. I just don't realize how big Tolkien fan art in DevianArt is. I seldom saw DevianArt website, but that illustration of Gondolin by Atriedes kind of familiar to me. I know I've seen similar illustration somewhere. I forgot where I saw it, though.

And I love the one with Melian and Galadriel. You're right those dresses have Batik pattern. Love it!

Kak Rach, I posted your Ted Nasmith illustration on chapter 16 because I couldn't find a better picture as mentioned above. Is that okay? :)

That's okay. I love this picture. When I read chapter 16, somehow I'm kind of afraid for Eol, Lol.

Hi guys!

I thought I'm the only one who just read chapter 15 & 16? apparently we haven't discussed it yet :)

So here's my thoughts.

Mary was right, Turgon has his own story here in chapter 15. I loved how slowly but surely he moved to Gondolin. And I also loved that there's a map of The Realms of The Noldor and The Sindar here. For me it's easier than when I have to open up my Beleriand map :)

But the most interesting thing for me in chapter 15 is how Sindarin becomes one of the main languages in Middle-earth universe. Well at least that's what I thought, as I never heard Noldor language. I only know there are Sindarin and Quenya. So I kind of think that those two are the main ones that created by Tolkien. And as usual, how Tolkien made throughout Beleriand they refused the tongue of the Noldor, and shunned those that spoke it aloud; but the Exiles took the Sindarin tongue in all their daily uses, and the High Speech of the West was spoken only by the lords of the Noldor among themselves. Yet that speech lived ever as a language of lore, wherever any of that people dwelt. makes sense and believable.

Chapter 16. I know that Tolkien story had great influenced by Scandinavia/Nordic mythology but this chapter, about how Aredhel Ar-Feiniel married Eol kind of reminds me of Persepone and Hades :D

Anyway, do you think that Eol trap/trick (?) Aredhel to be married with him? I think in a way he tricked her into his house, what with he sets his enchantments about her so that she could not find the ways out though It is not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling.

Note: This may sounds silly and has nothing to do with Silmarillion but it's kind of make me thinking :)

The title of each chapter begins with "Of" while in Indonesian edition it's translated into (similar with) "About". I wonder is there any significant differences between "of" and "about" in English? I've tried to seek the answer in Google but so far I haven't find any satisfying one :) At least the one that makes sense why Tolkien chose Of instead of About, for example.

Ifmarybooks wrote: "Hello :)

I discovered your group thanks to Ralf who just introduced himself.

My name is Marie. I'm french.
I only discovered Tolkien's books a few months ago (in august). I've read The Hobbit, ..."

Hello Marie, welcome!

We're happy you're going to join our discussion. And feel free if you want to start any discussion regarding Tolkien and/or his works.

Ifmarybooks wrote: "Hello :)

I discovered your group thanks to Ralf who just introduced himself.

My name is Marie. I'm french.
I only discovered Tolkien's books a few months ago (in august). I've read The Hobbit, ..."

Hello Marie, welcome!

We're happy you're going to join our discussion. And feel free if you want to start any discussion regarding Tolkien and/or his works.

That facepalm reminds me of Boromir in The Fellowship of The Ring movie :D

I love the picture of The Oath of Fëanor by Jenny Dolfen, as for Arien and Tilion by velamir I wonder what the artist used to make the colors look that way. It's amazing.

Thanks for the pictures, Wita. Keep posting! I'm looking forward to seeing more :)

And now I remember that I haven't posted myself :P Will do it later.

Hi Ralf, welcome!

Don't worry about your English, I'm not a native either. I'm Indonesian and am still learning it. You'll surely find my English a bit weird sometimes :)

I knew Tolkien because of the movies, read it right after The Fellowship of the Ring came out in end of 2001. So I think I read it in early 2002. And since then I'm mesmerized with the way Tolkien write his stories and read The Hobbit.

I then tried to read Silmarillion but since it took more than 10 years for Indonesia publisher to published it, I tried to read it in English last year but failed miserably, hahaha. I couldn't even pass chapter one.

As Indonesian edition published end of last year, I try reading it again, now both in Indonesian and English. I think it's still quite a hard reading even when I read it in my own language but buddy reading and discussing it here helped me a lot.

So I do hope you enjoy our buddy reading and discussing, as much as I enjoy it :)

I'll try to take part the discussion as much as I can :) It's just I read chapter 13 and 14 a while ago and posted my thought. But then I didn't get any notification about your and Heidi's comments, while I usually get one. Goodreads is weird like that. So I didn't check our group. And then because it's been more than one month I finally check it out and realized that there wasn't any comments from me! I'm not sure what happened.

I thoughts you don't reread it with us and just memorize all about it because you've already read it a while ago. Happy to know that you're reading it with us now. I seriously couldn't memorize all those names and kind of mix-up who is who and what role one has. Some times I feel like Dory in Finding Nemo/Dory, having a short term memory, Lol.

But to answer your question, I'm sure Mary has finished reading Silmarillion or maybe she has reread it a couple time, I think?

I think posting pictures via your mobile phone is doable, but it's quite hard. Or maybe you do it with your mobile but not from Goodreads apps but from browser. Do you know what I mean? I some times do this, juggling between the apps and browser when I have a discussion with my other friends from other group.

So sorry for posting so late for chapter 13 & 14. Just like you guys, I enjoyed chapter 13 but not so much about chapter 14.

I kept thinking that I need a map while I read chapter 14 to make it more interesting. And maybe I draw some lines and write some notes based on the description. So that when I forget who rule where, I can go back to the map and read my notes. But I'm too lazy to do it, Lol.

One interesting thing, though. I wonder whether there is any explanation regarding why Morgoth's servants shunned the water. So they avoid it, save in dire need.

As for chapter 13, I didn't make any connection between Fëanor who has fiery temper with the way he died because of a Balrog which is a fire creature. But yes I agree with you. It seems fitting. Now I'm sure it isn't just a coincidental thing :) The way he died kind of surprised me, though. I know lots of spoilers for this book, but strangely I didn't know how Fëanor died. So when I read it, I'm kind of shocked, lol. I didn't thought that he will die so soon. In this case, I agree with you Wita. I think he is too young to die. I love his character, as much as I dislike his personalities. But he is one interesting character to me.

I didn't feel sorry for him, though. I don't know, maybe because I'm just too shocked because he died to feel sorry for him, Lol. But I will surely miss him, if it makes any sense :)

I also love that I got to see more Fëanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin's decendants here, though I find it's so hard to memorize their names. I get to mix them up and have to go back to previous paragraphs to make sure I read it right, hahaha.

Wita, I'm curious how you can memorize them all, what with your explanation here. Did you have to read chapter 13 again before you discuss it with us? Or you just remember it the whole time. Because seriously when I write this, I have to go back and reread some paragraphs again :p

Anyway, about Caranthir. He is Fëanor's son without a doubt, hehehe. Can you show us the drawing by Catherine Karina Chmiel? I never heard of her before and am curious to see her drawing now.

We got to see a glimpse of Turgon here, are you saying that he has important roles in next chapters, Wita? I cannot wait to read it. I'm interested with he and Maedhro now. And Fingon too. I think he's so kind and brave helping Maedhros while they have not-so-good relationship. Well...I know it's actually because Fëanor but still.

And I'm quite agree with Fingolfin, if it's not because of their treason among themselves, Morgoth cannot escape from the Eldar.

Illustration by Ted Nasmith for chapter 11, The Sun and The Moon and The Hiding of Valinor is called The First Dawn of The Sun



There is no illustration for chapter 12 from Ted Nasmith, though.

Below is an illustration from John Howe. Since the title is The Hubris of Great of Men, I think it can be for chapter 12 :)



I also love this sketch of Melkor by John Howe.



I think it can also be a portrait of Melkor. Wita, what do you think? Is it a portrait you asked about, two months ago?

This folder is for our discussion of chapter 13, Of The Return of The Noldor through chapter 18, Of The Ruin of The Beleriand and The Fall of Fingolfin.

Sydney wrote: "Rachmi wrote: "Chapter 11, I love the way Tolkien wrote about the movement of the moon and the sun. In a way it suits with the moon and the sun in our world. One question from this chapter, why do ..."

I think so too! The powerful one definitely has more resources and opportunity to do evil things.

I think I missed that dark elves part. The problem with reading only two chapters a month is I often forget the detail of previous chapters. So I have to go back to them just to make it clear. Looks like I have to do it again with this dark elves :D

Thank you Sydney!

Chapter 11, I love the way Tolkien wrote about the movement of the moon and the sun. In a way it suits with the moon and the sun in our world. One question from this chapter, why do you think Tolkien use the antagonists from the most or one of the most powerful characters? well aside that that way they aren't easy to be defeated. Melkor is obviously one of the most powerful while Fëanor is not an antagonist like Melkor, I still think that he's an antagonist too, one way or the other.

Chapter 12, I thought I'll get more about men here, like the numenor and such but it's quite a short chapter. Maybe we'll get another explanation about men in next chapters? I wonder who are Dark Elves, though. I don't think I missed something, this is the first time I read about them but there's no description about them here in chapter 12.

Sydney wrote: "Hello. My name is Sydney. I have been searching for online book clubs and found Goodreads. In looking for Tolkien groups, I found this one. I hope it is ok that I joined. I actually just started re..."

Hai Sydney! Welcome to our group.

Since you're re-reading The Silmarillion now, you must join in our discussion. We've been reading it since last January and now into chapter 11 and 12. We're reading it two chapters a month, but you can read it as many chapters as you want, really and discuss it as our reading progress.

Aside The Silmarillion buddy reading, you can also post illustrations or if you have any resources or anything regarding Tolkien works, feel free to share it with us.

Hope you enjoy your stay here :)

And about the new folder, what's it all about? Can I add with some information like this dwarves story?...

You can post the link there, but if you can't do it since you use mobile phone I think it's okay if you just write it down. You can add some information there, mainly a specific one (like your Dwarves story), I think. While the link is for the one who wants to know anything about Tolkien related.

The Tolkien Society
http://www.tolkiensociety.org/

I think it's the most reliable (or should I call trusted?) Tolkien related website that I can find, so far.

LOTRProject by Emil Johansson
http://lotrproject.com/

It has genealogy and interactive maps that make me easier to understand Tolkien works.

The One Ring: Forged by and for fans of JRR Tolkien
http://www.theonering.net/

I rarely check the website but follow their Facebook. At the beginning it mostly about the movies but then they also provide anything related to Tolkien works. They even have this thing called Friday Cosplay, for cosplayer to show their works related to characters in Middle-Earth.

JRR Tolkien Encyclopedia (that anyone can edit)
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Main_Page

The Tolkienist by Marcel Aubron-Bulles
http://www.thetolkienist.com/

Learning Elvish
1. http://www.elvish.org/

This is not a "friendly" website. I mean it isn't easy to read, for me at least. The color is kind of hurt my eyes. Hence, I never check it anymore, but I think if you want to learn (some) Elvish, you can check it out.

2. http://www.councilofelrond.com/conten...

3. There is also a book by David Salo, . Salo is a linguist who is well-known for his works on Tolkien's language. His website is http://midgardsmal.com/

There are Elvish, Black Speech, Khuzdul and Orkish in his website.

Heidi wrote: "Rachmi wrote: " And it's just brilliant the way he wrote The Hobbit and then LOTR (because fans wanted the sequel) while at the same time he said that The Hobbit that he wrote first is just Bilbo l..."

Wita was right, the second pic is about Fingolfin and his kin. It's when he led his kin through the bad winter to Middle-earth, after he found out that Feanor abandoned them.

Wita wrote: "Why I feel like I'm the who against the world here hehe.. Let me get things clear. When I said I love TH cast TEAM more than LotR, my PoV is based on nothing but only appreciating their works. With..."

Hey, don't feel bad! :) It's why we're discussing it, so we get to know what we thought about it and share it here.

And since English isn't our native language, I get sometimes (most of the times?) we feel like lost in translation or chose the wrong word to describe our thoughts. So I feel you :D