Rachmi ’s Comments (group member since Mar 31, 2016)

Rachmi ’s comments from the J.R.R. Tolkien Epic Reads group.

Adam wrote: "Hi, I'm Adam. I call Washington State my home, although right now I'm off at university studying engineering. This is my first Goodreads group. I first got into LOTR by watching the movies and have..."

Hi Adam! Welcome to our group. We hope you have a great time here.

I knew Tolkien because of the movies too. I haven't read all of his books though. It mostly because not all of Tolkien books are translated in my language. I always have problem reading Tolkien in English, because of my limited vocabulary. So I need to read in my own language first or read back to back between the two languages like I did with The Silmarillion and Children of Húrin.

Anyway, we're reading The Hobbit now. So if you want to join us, just go ahead to its thread. We have also discussion thread about The Silmarillion and Children of Húrin.

In chapter 11, I wonder why whenever Smaug comes into the story, the narrator doesn't call by his name? But instead only Dragon? Is there any reason or it's just the way it is?

Eileen wrote: "You're right Rachmi. They're called the Avari, though in a generalization they're known as Moriquendi and they are under that title with the group of Teleri that refused to go any further once Thin..."

Yes, I agree The Tolkien Gateway is one of the most trusted source for Tolkien works. I don't quite like their layout though, I don't know why. That's why it isn't my very first site whenever I need to check something. It's Wikipedia, LOTR wiki to be exact, for me though after that I sometimes go to The Tolkien Gateway too hahaha

Heidi wrote: "Awesome conversation!

So, I did look up the screenwriters for LotR and all the Hobbit films; they were the same: Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens and Peter Jackson. Yes, Guillermo del Toro began with T..."

Maybe we should watch the movies again soon :D Starting chapter 8 there are much difference between the book and the movies. But now I think I kind of understand why PJ and Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens made the movies that way. I mean there aren't much happen in chapter 9 and 10 while in the movie was all action sequence that made me feel like wanted to jump up and down when I saw the barrel scene and at the same time laughing out loud because it was too funny. In a way the movies were made to entertain. I don't mean that the book doesn't it's just it's surely targeted for those who aren't read the book too. And probably will not read.

Eileen wrote: "Rachmi, thank you. I couldn't remember the name and to be honest I didn't feel like looking through Valar knows how many articles to find it. And if I remember Cuivienen (Thingol) had gotten lost i..."

Yes, Thingol got lost somehow and then met Melian but I think there's elves that didn't go to Valinor and choose to stay in Middle-earth? The Dark-elves? I think I got mixed up with everything I read in The Silmarillion and things that I read in Wikipedia I cannot differentiate what it's wrong and which one is right Lol

Mary wrote: "It probably means the Undying Lands by Faerie. The Wide World is Middle Earth. Probably because too much of the legendarium might have overburdened a children's book.

The Deep Elves are the Noldor..."

Thank you Mary! Now it makes more sense for me :)

I also notice a thing that I don't quite understand in chapter 8. I remember I didn't have problem when I first read the Hobbit but now after reading The Silmarillion this part is a bit confusing me

For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West. There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves and the Sea-elves went and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned, and invented their magic and their cunning craft in the making of beautiful and marvellous things, before some came back into the Wide World.

Does the Faerie in the West mean the elves that went to Aman? If I'm not wrong one of the elves that refuse to go to Aman is Sindar. And Thranduil is a Sindar elf. But then again why it's called Faerie not Elf?

And who are this Deep-elves and Sea-elves? And what is Wide World? Arda? or Middle-earth? or something else?

I also think it's better if Bilbo solve the problem on his own without the help from the dwarves, mostly because of what Mary said. And I'm kind of annoyed with them when they seem ungrateful while Bilbo trying to help them escape from the Mirkwood. I can't help not to cheer on Bilbo when he said “Come along back to your nice cells, and I will lock you all in again, and you can sit there comfortably and think of a better plan—but I don’t suppose I shall ever get hold of the keys again, even if I feel inclined to try.” :D

I don't remember much about the Hobbit the movie. But reading chapter 8 & 9 makes me want to watch it again, at least the first one. The only thing I remember from the Hobbit An Unexpected Journey is when I read the scene where Bilbo climb the tree



I love this part in the movie.

Eileen wrote: "However I can't hate on them too much, it wasn't really PJ's script or even vision. I forget who it was, but someone key who wanted to do The Hobbit and planned some things out left to do another movie and left them with half-finished ideas. So Peter did the best he could."

Do you mean Guillermo del Toro? If I'm not wrong he was the first choice as the director but then left out only a few months before they filming.

Kalli wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Hi! This is the *official* introduce yourself thread! We're thrilled you've joined our group. Please feel free to share whatever you want to about yourself and your Tolkien love

Hel..."

Hi Kalli! I love collecting Tolkien books as well. But as I think it's impossible for me to do that with every editions out there. I only focus on my native language editions.

So far there are 4 editions of The Hobbit and 4 editions of LoTR. As the other books, like Children of Hurin and The Silmarillion only have one edition so far.

I'm on the hunt to collect all of LoTR Indonesian editions now. I've only had one edition, the second one which were published months after the movies were released with Alan Lee's illustrations as its covers. I don't think I can find the very first one though. It was published a long time ago, in the 1980s if I'm not wrong. So I'm trying to find the third and four editions now :)

Hi Emily! Hope you enjoy your stay here :D As Heidi said this group has varying degrees of knowledge, so it's good to discuss everything Tolkien related here.

Happy New Year, Heidi!

I think I'm making a mistake in my last message. I thought for January we will read 12-15. So sorry about that!

Agree with Tara. Don't try to memorize the names and places. I did it when I buddy read it with Heidi and other members here but it gave me headache, lol, add it with the way we read it one to two chapters a month. I got lost of the names easily each time I continue reading it the next month. And then for some story, it doesn't continue for a few chapters later.

I was really struggling to memorize the names of the valar I ended up taking so many notes. But I found my notes (and the family tree at the end of the book) helpful when I didn't try to memorize anymore. So I will just look it up when some characters pop up and I don't remember who they are :)

I love so much The Silmarillion I want to read it again some day. Now I do think that HoME is the daunting one. I have the one that title (forgot which volume it is) The Shaping of Middle Earth) for years but I never even past chapter one.

Mary wrote: "The pun is a bit stronger than it looks, because "daisy" literally means "day's eye."

Presumably since it doesn't cross over, another sun analogy was chosen."

I didn't know that! Now I understand the literally meaning of daisy. Thanks Mary.

I think it's one of the disadvantage reading translation edition and being a non English speaking reader, the pun sometimes lost in the translation. But even if I read the English one, I think I still won't get it, as I don't get the pun in it.

Mel ☀︎ wrote: "I'm at chapter 6 now. I'm afraid I haven't done much comparing between French and English for chapters 4-6 because it turned out to be very impractical in the train (though I do mean to compare the..."

I'm not a fan of audiobook. I only tried one audiobook though, Norse Mythology by Neil Gaiman narrated by Gaiman himself. So I don't have much for comparison. With audiobook, it's quite hard to concentrate when I read. While my friends said that they can do many things when listen to audiobook, I didn't get what the narrator says, when I listen to it while I did other things. And when I didn't do anything except listen to it, it made me fall asleep :D

Tara wrote: "Rachmi wrote: "I'm here! :)

I actually finished chapter 4-7 by the end of November but to be honest, I don't have anything to start the discussion Lol. I don't know why the only thing that stuck i..."

Yes, daises have white petals while sunflowers have yellow petals. I do think a sunflower works better for Indonesian version, because daisy in Indonesian is bunga aster which isn't popular, at least not as popular as sunflowers. If the translator stick true to daisy and translate it into bunga aster, it won't make sense to me.

I'm here! :)

I actually finished chapter 4-7 by the end of November but to be honest, I don't have anything to start the discussion Lol. I don't know why the only thing that stuck in my head is about the riddle and the eagle. So I'm waiting for you guys to start this thread hahaha.

I haven't watched the Hobbit again, not after when it released in the cinema. So I don't remember much about it, unlike LoTR that I still watch here and there :) But I believe you're right, Heidi. The first one is still true to the book. It's from the second one that they added so many things and it becomes different from what Tolkien wrote.

Reading chapter 4-7 didn't make me want to watch the movie again, but I did imagine the scene from the movie when I read these four chapters, especially the riddle scene. I cannot help not to read it with Andy Serkis voice in my head hahaha.

As for the riddle, I love how the translator translates it in Indonesian. It's so good! It's easy to understand yet a bit hard to guess.

There's one thing makes me confused here though. In English version, the fourth riddle,

An eye in a blue face
Saw an eye in a green face.
“That eye is like to this eye”
Said the first eye,
“But in low place
Not in high place"

Gollum said “Sun on the daisies it means, it does." Now in Indonesian, the translator translate it into "Matahari dan bunga matahari, tentu itu maksudnya."

Bunga matahari is sunflower. I found that daisy is a bit different from sunflower here. I wonder if those are the same thing in English? or if Tolkien has any particular reason chose daisy instead of sunflower? I do think it sounds better in the sentence than if he use sunflower though, because there will be two "suns" there.

Another random thought is the eagles in chapter 6. Are they the same eagle as in LoTR? Do you know anything about these eagles?

James wrote: "I’ve just been reading through this thread and wanted to add to it. In the 70s they used to show the animated Hobbit every year on TV. I first read LOTR in 1979, then the Hobbit. Then Unfinished Ta..."

I didn't know that there is the animated version of The Hobbit too! I only know about LoTR Ralph Bakshi version. I never watched it though.

I love learning about language and words as well! Agree with you it's fascinating, moreover when I know the meaning behind one particular word, for example. I learnt Mandarin a few years ago, and their vocabulary are really really fascinating me.

With Tolkien books, it's more prominent when I compare the English version with my own language version. I learn so much from The Silmarillion when we buddy reading it last year.

As I promise, here's one of the songs (from chapter 3) in Indonesian. It doesn't sound similar in rhyme, unlike in English which is so good when I read it, but it has pretty close in meaning with English version.

O! What are you doing,
And where are you going?
Your ponies need shoeing!
The river is flowing!
    O! tra-la-la-lally
here down in the valley!

O! Apa yang kaulakukan,
Dan ke mana kau mau berjalan?
Kudamu perlu ganti sepatu,
Sungai gemercik di batu-batu!
    O! tra-la-la-lali
        di lembah subur ini,

--> sepatu does sound similar with batu-batu. But batu-batu isn't meant to be in this lyric, in my opinion. The translator adds the word (which means rocks) to make it sounds more meaningful or beautiful or I don't know, honestly.

O! What are you seeking,
And where are you making?
The faggots are reeking,
The bannocks are baking!
    O! tril-lil-lil-lolly
        the valley is jolly,
            ha! ha!

O! Apa yang kaucari,
Dan ke mana kau pergi?
Ranting kayu gemeretak,
Roti dipanggang berderak-derak!
    O! tri-lil-lil-lolli
        di lembah yang makmur ini,
            hi! hi!

--> this verse doesn't rhyme but the meaning is pretty close.

O! Where are you going
With beards all a-wagging?
No knowing, no knowing
What brings Mister Baggins
    And Balin and Dwalin
        down into the valley
            in June
                ha! ha!

O! Ke mana kau menuju?
Janggutmu mengangguk sangat lucu?
Tidak tahu, tidak tahu!
Mengapa Mr. Baggins,
    Dengan Balin and Dwalin
        turun ke lembah ini
            di bulan Juni
                hi! hi!

--> similar with second verse, it doesn't rhyme but has similar meaning.

O! Will you be staying,
Or will you be flying?
Your ponies are straying!
The daylight is dying!
To fly would be folly,
To stay would be jolly
    And listen and hark
        Till the end of the dark
            to our tune
                ha! ha!

O! Maukah kau mampir,
Atau terus menyingkir?
Kudamu tersesat!
Siang hari pun sudah lewat!
Kalau terus sunggu sayang,
Kalau mampir sungguh senang
    Dengarkan nyanyian kami yang merdu
        Sampai malam gelap pun berlalu
            Mari kita bergembira
                ha! ha!

--> this verse doesn't rhyme at all and just like first verse, the translator add a few words to make the lyrics sound more understandable in Indonesian.

Despite the rhyme and the additional vocabulary that aren't in English version, I'm pretty impressed with the translator. He/she chose the words that I don't think I will choose if I have to translate these verses, but what he/she chose are still sound beautiful and more make sense in Indonesian.

I don't know if what I write now is understandable to you but I do hope you get what I'm trying to say :)

Mel ☀︎ wrote: "Hi! As I mentioned in the other topic, I thought it was interesting the runes in my French edition had been translated if I may say so. Here are pictures:




Our title says 'Le Hobbit ou un aller ..."

Mel, I honestly never thought that in other language the publisher (or the translator) will change the rune too! I just checked my edition out of curiosity hahaha. But turns out it's the same with the English one. I never try to translate it though. But now I'm curious and want to learn the rune :D

There's an interesting discussion about the difference edition of The Hobbit in French, Indonesian and Russian in another thread. If you want to know about it, here its link (it started at message 39):

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...