Rachmi ’s Comments (group member since Mar 31, 2016)

Rachmi ’s comments from the J.R.R. Tolkien Epic Reads group.

Finished reading the last 6 chapters and the appendix last night. But I honestly don't have much things to say :D

My only notes is the one about the curse from chapter 14 where Mablung said "Truly, it is by lack of counsel not of courage that Húrin's kin bring woe to others! Even so with Túrin; yet not so with his fathers. But now they are all fey, and I like it not.[...]"

As I said in other chapters thread the curse remind me of Fëanor and his kin and their curse. And also if it can be broken. If it can, how? I don't think I've read lots of story about curse before (other than the curse in fairy tales), so I don't know much about it. But at some point I like to think that it is indeed can be broken if the cursed ones do different things what they meant to do. So they will have different outcome.

I mostly enjoy about Glaurung, chapter 16 & 17. I think it's better than what it is told in TS, as here is more descriptive. And I still love the idea that even in his last breath, Glaurung can hurt our characters badly. So wicked!!!!

And another 'what-if' moment I get is from the appendix. It says that Tuor, Túrin's cousin, saw Túrin and didn't know that Nargothrond has fallen and it is his cousin. What if he knew that it is his cousin? Will Túrin have different ending? I don't think so, not only because of the curse but also because his personalities, his pride and stubborn and all of that. But now I kind of want to read more Tuor (and Idril) story :)

And about the whole appendix, as much as it adds to the story I find it's quite confusing as Christopher Tolkien compares CoH to Unfinished Tales while I never read UT before. I don't think I will though. At least not until I reread both TS and CoH again :D But I do happy knowing that CoH is in full novel format instead in prose, like what Tolkien meant to be at first.

I have to force myself to read it too! In a way it's as hard as TS everytime I want to start it, not in a sense that it has the same difficulty as reading TS but in the way it's written. It doesn't as engaging as I thought. In some part, TS is even more engaging for me.

Lol to your hate of unrequited love. I do hate love triangle but unrequited love never bother me :D I don't like how Finduilas treated Gwindor though. And a bit sorry for him for his unrequited love of Finduilas.

The only one who could win was MORGOTH with all his lies and sneaking around and ill will. Great fun story to read. NOT! Evil prevails:( Sigh.

Morgoth all the way!!! Hahaha it just shows how great Tolkien writing the bad guy. As much as it depressed me reading this book, what with all those hate, jealousy and such I cannot ignore that Morgoth is truly evil which is what I love.

The only thing I regret is Beleg. I don't want him to die (his death really surprised me and took me a while to take when I first read it in TS) or if he has to die, I want him to have a different death. But then again, with the way his death it's just ironic, I think.

As about the cursed. I do think the way you think. But on a side note I also think whether the cursed can be broken? This book reminds me of Fëanor and his cursed. They all cannot break the curse and basically doom from the start but they try anyway, I guess that what's it all about? That we have to always try nonetheless. It's just both of family are also proud and arrogant. And are driven by not to show their fear (just like you said in chapter 1-6 thread), they caused so much sadness not only for themselves but also for people around them.

Is it because he can't bear to appear afraid? It can be and makes sense in my opinion, but I always thought that it's because he's so proud of himself and an arrogant man he doesn't let others tell him anything and do what he wants to do.

I never like Túrin, not in TS not in here hahaha. I do too agree with Glaurung being right about him. I think I wrote about it too in our TS discussion thread.

My notes after reading chapter 7-12:
In chapter 7 Mîm said [...] 'And we do not teach Men to find them, for Men are greedy and thriftless, and would not spare till all the plants had perished; [...]'

It looks like both Mîm (a dwarf) and Elrond (an Elf) in LoTR (at least in the movie, I don't remember his version from the book) have similar thought about Men. Although both are for different context but it's clear both races lose faith in humanity hahaha. Men is just one greedy race.

Also about Nirnaeth Arnoediad, well I had to go back and search, because I just glossed over it without even realizing it, and it was so much more moving in TS.

I wonder if it's because we read it first in TS it becomes more moving there than here. But the thing is I also feel that way with CoH, looking back now I much enjoy the story there than here in its own book while it is a full length novel this time, which what I was looking forward to when I finished TS.

The title of the chapter, but, still I wanted a different ending so much.

The title feels like Christopher Tolkien (or maybe it's Tolkien himself?) put readers as someone who already read TS. So it's so straight forward telling what it's the chapters are all about. I know CoH is best to read if we already read TS, but I wished Christopher Tolkien (or JRR Tolkien?) put different title to most of the chapters. So I at least get a little bit surprised at the end of the chapter, despite I have already know from TS.

I don't expect any add'l info on why he forgot Nella, but it is a strange detail, perhaps....

It is disturbing, but with Tolkien books, where most of everything has meaning, I tend to seek what the reason behind some actions or why the characters do what they choose to do. So when it doesn't explore more, and leave a kind of open meaning I thought there's something more to it hahaha.

Ah it much more sense now reading your thought about Glaurung and Dragon of Dorlomin. I think you're right and I agree with you on both accounts.

This thread is for the last 6 chapters and the appendix (and also genealogy, if any. Aside appendix my copy has the genealogy, makes it easier to read the book).

Agree with you that first three chapters were repetitive. I especially didn't feel anything in chapter 2. I'm not sure whether it's because I've read about it in TS or because it didn't as descriptive as in TS. I remember when I first read Nirnaeth Arnoediad it was so sad and eerie I have to take a break before continue reading it. But here in CoH I barely feel anything.

I do find the introduction is useful though. As you said it's providing an overview of where The Children of Hurin fits within The Silmarillion, I think it's interesting to read. And a bit a reminder as I already forget one or two things in TS.

And yes, Sador/Labradol and Nella are the most enjoyable for me too. Beleg, not so much as I already know what will happen to him yet I don't want him to have the same ending as in TS hahaha.

I'm curious of why Turin didn't remember Nella. Will there be reason for it or is it because he met Nella when he was a child and as an adult he already forget her?

Saeros part fits with TS perfectly, I think.

Things that aren't clear enough for me after 6 chapters:

In chapter 1:
'Has it always been so? Or do we suffer
some curse of the wicked King, perhaps, like the Evil Breath?'
Who is this wicked King? is it Morgoth? and what or who is Evil Breath? could it be Glaurung or something else?

In chapter 4:
I take that the cover of CoH is Turin wearing Helm of Haldor. And as it's said Upon its crest was set in defiance a gilded image of Glaurung the dragon.
What I don't understand is why put Glaurung in Hurin's heirloom while he's Morgoth's ally?

And who are Dragon of Dorlómin and the gold-worm of Angband? I think gold-worm of Angband is Glaurung but I'm not 100% sure :)

This is for our discussion of chapter 1 - 6, including the foreword and preface

This thread is for the illustration that related to The Children of Húrin and can be from any kind of artists/illustrators.

Wita wrote: "Chapter 22


Death of Thingol by steamey, Deviant Art

Chapter 23


The Twelves Houses of the Gondolindrim - Gondolin by Aglargon, Deviant Art


Banner Remake Series, Part Seven: The House of the..."

I love all illustrations by Jenny Dolfen here, but my favorite is As Little Might Be Thought. I wish there's more of Elrond and Elros' story. I want to know more about their childhood :)

And I think I've seen Rising of the Star by zdrava before. I don't remember where, though. I love the color.

Never heard of Denis Gordeev before but love those two illustrations!

That is one scary Glaurung by Elena Kukanova!

Never heard of Denis Gordeev before but love those two illustrations!

That is one scary Glaurung by Elena Kukanova!

Wita wrote: "Mariliis wrote: "Finally, I managed to finish Silmarillion and am here to appreciate the beautiful illustrations. Yay.
My Tolkien world was illustrated by John Howe (the books that were published ..."

Agree with you Wita, Ted Nasmith is so good with landscapes illustration and his color? I have to admit at first I was quite surprise with his orange choice. It's so bright in some of illustrations I feel like they hurt my eyes. But then it's what attracted me first thing from his illustrations, I think more than his other colors. Aside purple, I think he used orange a lot.

Alan Lee though, his portrait and sketch are the best! I first know his works from LoTR the movies (of course!) and his sketch at the end of RoTK were so awesome there's a time when I just kept looking at the credit role just to see those portrait of the actors hahaha.

From these two chapters, I especially love Eärendil the Mariner, I feel like I can hear the sound of the wave and the wind that breeze, just by looking at it. And The White Tree, it's so tall and a beautiful tree.

As for White Ships From Valinor, it's also the cover of the book. It's actually that attracted me to buy this edition in the first place.

And The Eagles of Manwë, for a second I was wondering where are the eagles? I didn't see them :D

These are illustration by Ted Nasmith for the last two chapters of The Silmarillion.

Akallabeth

1. Eärendil the Mariner


2. White Ships From Valinor


3. The Eagles of Manwë


4. Queen Tar-Miriel and the Great Wave


5. The Ships of the Faithful


Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age

1. The Forging of the One


2. The White Tree

Wita wrote: "Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age

1. I'm interested in finding more stories regarding Celebrimbor. Especially when I saw one of his art pictures, it was so cruel and terrible. It didn't app..."

1. Cerebrimbor is surely inherited (is it the right word?) his talent in craftmanship from his father. He created the three rings of power, right?

2. In my opinion Morgoth seems more evil than Sauron. I don't have much proves to back up my opinion :) But to me he's more cunning and also more powerful than Sauron. He's the most powerful Valar while Sauron is justa Maia. He's the very first antagonist in Middle-earth universe while Sauron is just his servant. I need to read more, obviously, to compare them but that's what I feel when I read TS.

3. Hah! I thought the same thing, Feanor can be a badass character, maybe much more badass thatn Gimli but Gimli surely luckier than him, as he can make Galadriel gave him 3 stands of her hair. And you may call me weird but at first I thought that number is a typo :D

Wita wrote: "i. Akallabeth

As you can see that in The Silmarillion, Akallabeth part gives us the brief history of Numenor from the glory until its fall. Only some of the characters were mentioned, especially ..."

Thanks Wita! I wonder when can I finally read UT and HoME, maybe I should master The Silmarillion first before I get my hand on those books, Lol.

And do you know if Tar-Ancalime has something to do with what Frodo said in LOTR when he light up the light of Earendil? or what Ancalime means? If I'm not wrong he said ""aiya Eärendil elenion ancalima!" ("hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!")

I also don't have many things I can say about Akallabeth and especially Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age. I don't know maybe because mostly I already know about it?

But I did feel excited when Isildur stole a fruit from Nimloth, I was screaming in my head that it's the White Tree of Gondor! It must be Lol.

As for Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age, nothing new I got from this chapter. However I love the feeling when I reached the final page. It's like I just finished traveling from thousands of years, from First Age and now I'm in Fourth Age.

But ... of course ... his spirit came back to haunt Middle Earth;) so that is how we get THE EYE!!!!!

Somehow I completely forgot about the story of the eye of Sauron in LoTR and for a long time I thought the eye in the movie is a creation of Peter Jackson. Or is it not? Because now every time I read about it, I only picture that EYE, nothing else :)

Avallone has to come from Avalon? right?

I do think of Avalon when I read Avallone, but The Downfall of Númenor reminds me of Atlantis, though I never read his letters before.

Before I read chapter 22, I thought Hurin's journey to find Morwen will be similar to Odysseus in Odyssey :)

Nauglamir really shines brightly in the picture, don't you think? as someone who cannot even draw a stick figure properly :D I cannot imagine what colors, and how Nasmith done it really well.

If you want to read Tolkien biography, I'm game! I have the one by Humphrey Carpenter