Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Welcome Dave. I briefly considered listening to the audiobook as well as reading but decided in the end to just read it. When we read something in translation we have already had it filtered through the translator and then if we listen to the audiobook it's going through another 'filtering' process. Mind you, if I do re-read it the audiobook might be a good option.

Already planning a re-read Renato? That's impressive. I won't re-read it so soon but I am looking forward to reading a bio and other books on Proust. I do find myself re-reading parts, or sometimes all, of the previous week's reading before starting the current week - so in a way I'm reading it twice anyway! :-)

I'm a bit behind this week. I'm trying to finish a section of another book before switching back to my scheduled Proust read. Should read it tomorrow (Sunday) where I'll probably start at the beginning of the party from last week's read.

Nice pics by the way.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "OK, NOW I'm finished. But, I swear I must be missing something. The narrator said he saw something while he was waiting on the stairs for the Guermantes to return home, but that he'd relate that ..."

Ouch! 2 stars! I'm still only a third of the way through but it's ok so far. I'm thinking 3 or 4 stars at the moment.

I suppose when Proust says he'll reveal something later he doesn't necessarily mean in that volume - if we're thinking of the whole thing as a single novel.

I know what you mean about remembering stuff though; I find it difficult enough remembering details from the week before. Although I do find myself re-reading parts, or in some cases, all of the previous week's material. This is one of the benefits of reading it slowly.

My copies have a synopsis at the back of each volume which is useful for remembering or finding past material. Does yours?

So Sunny, have you finished 'Guermantes Way' now? How did it compare against Vols. 1&2?

Dwayne wrote: "Totally noticed that "similar situation as Swann" thing, Jonathan. He popped up in my mind as well, while reading about Rachel's cruelness and Saint-Loup's snowed-ness."

The episode in the theatre where Rachel et al heckle the female singer was interesting, particularly the narrator's points about the natures of the bully and the victim. He says that

our pity for misfortune perhaps misses the point, since in our imagination we recreate an inflated idea of the pain which the sufferer is too busy combating to think of succumbing to self-pity...

which is probably true and I must admit I'd probably never considered before.

He goes on to state that 'unkind people imagine themselves to be inflicting pain on someone equally unkind.' Again, I'd never really thought of this before but I think Proust has a point. The bully doesn't even consider that the victim is different than them. I guess that I'd always assumed that the bully was always a sadist.

I wonder if part of what Proust is doing with Mme Villeparisis is showing how her social position may be different when on holiday in Balbec and when she's in Paris. I thought that as the narrator got to know her in Balbec she was initially quite aloof but as he got to know her she came across as more and more Bohemian - which chimes more with her position in Paris.

For me, one of the best things about ISOLT is where we get to see characters from different vantage points in space and time; peoples' characters change over time and depend on the situation they find themselves in; to a large extent though it's all a bit of a facade.

Doesn't St. Loup seem to be in a similar situation as Swann?

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Didn't someone say somewhere that a lot of people never read further than The Guermantes Way? For me, this week's reading is supporting that statement. I'm so BORED with all of this high society,..."

This isn't still Mme de Villeparisis' party from the 5/17 reading is it?

Thanks Marcelita. I didn't notice many sounds in the earlier volumes - they seemed to be more visual.

I'm planning on reading the Carter bio once I've finished ISOLT; it looks fascinating.

Renato wrote: "Jonathan: I'm interested in having the Dreyfus book as an addition read for the group, but I'm not sure more people would be up for it... maybe we could set up a poll to find out?"

Good idea Renato. No reason why we can't see how others feel about it.

My favourite quote from this section was:

Alix bore the blow without flinching. A block of marble. Her gaze was piercing and blank, her nose nobly arched. But one cheek was flaking. A hint of strange green and pink vegetation was invading her chin. Another winter perhaps would lay her low.

This was from Mme Villeparisis' salon. This is again similar to the de Pelancey quote in the previous week's reading, in that the style is quite different than the vast bulk of the novel; short sentences are used as well as an almost surreal imagery.

It's amusing to see Legrandin turn up at the salon being obsequious to the aristocracy.

I though the narrator (and therefore Proust) kept going on about how much Rachel would normally charge (20 francs) and how much St-Loup was paying her as his mistress. A good point but I thought he kept banging on about it for a couple of pages.

As a big Zola fan Rachel is making me think more and more of Nana.

Near the beginning of this week's reading the narrator mentions the sounds that some pigeons were making from the chimney and I realised that sounds are much more prominent in this volume that in previous volumes. The opening sentence is about 'twittering birds at daybreak', we had the noises from the military band, the noises coming from the fireplace and the effects of plugging your ears up. I wonder if it was at this point in time that Proust sound-proofed his room?

Stephen wrote: "re the telephone, I'm highlighting the narrator's references to technology through the book. from the phone and automobile to the x-ray, they seem to reshape or reframe time or space, and they some..."

I find the references to phones, x-rays etc. a bit disconcerting sometimes because for me Proust often reads like a nineteenth century novel and I'm thinking of it in those terms. There's also the fact that the omniscient narrator comments on past events with the benefit of hindsight. I like the shifting of time-frames though as it keeps me on my toes.

Renato wrote: "Wow at St-Loup beating up the guy who hit on him on the street. I know just moments before he slapped another man for an even more ridiculous reason, but still... and apparently homosexual behavior..."

St-Loup is certainly getting wound up by Rachel's antics but it would appear that she's being quite blatant about her flirting and it's not just in St-Loup's head. It's funny how the narrator can be so cool in analysing St-Loup's behaviour and yet seem oblivious to his own strange behaviour - but it's so like real life in that we can solve others' problems as easy as anything but our own....

Renato wrote: "Jonathan: good idea! I do think it makes sense starting with a non-fiction book! I'll look into one of those Dreyfus Affair books you shelved as I'm already interested on the subject! Did you read ..."

I haven't read either of the Dreyfus books yet but was veering towards the Piers Paul Read one if I do. I was thinking of starting it the other day but I'm just about to start the 900 page epic Life and Fate as part of another group read. If I wasn't reading that book also I probably would have started the Dreyfus book...I'm no good at rushing my reading.

I did think about having the Dreyfus book set up as an additional read for the group but it would probably be stretching everyone's time and patience I feel. But if enough people were interested we could do that.

Alia wrote: "Hi, I've actually stopped reading and moved on to other things. While I enjoyed Swann's Way, I really had a hard time muddling through the second volume and just wasn't enjoying it or getting anyth..."

Hi Alia. It must have been a difficult decision especially after setting up the group, but there's certainly no point in continuing a book (or anything else) if you just feel as if you're trudging through it. Reading shouldn't be a chore, in my opinion.

I recently gave Goethe's Faust another go after trying it initially about twenty years ago. I would read a couple of pages, begin to nod off, go back and re-read the pages, not take anything in, plough on but not understand anything...I had to give it up...what was the point in just scanning the text and not reading it? Maybe Proust had the same effect on you as Faust had on me.

All the best with your non-Proust reading and thanks for getting the ball rolling with this group.

Renato: I agree with Stephen - your English seems impeccable. If I were in your situation I'd try reading a non-fiction book first.

I keep meaning to learn French but never quite get round to it.

Stephen: are you reading ISOLT in French?

I've added some extra bookshelves to the group homepage. No doubt others will have their own favourite books that they want added, or want to query or discuss the books already added, so this is the place to discuss any queries about the bookshelves and the books on them.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Seriously? Because I heard the aliens won."

You've ruined it for me now! :-(