Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Marcelita wrote: "There are many superb "blogs" on Proust. One is Dennis Abrams' "The Cork-Lined Room."

Here is his take on the "models" of the characters:

"Now, does it matter if the fictional Bergotte was perhaps inspired by the real-life Anatole France? ..."

Thanks for the blog info Marcelita. I agree with the quote that it is 'interesting' but 'does not really matter' whether a fictional character is based on a real person. But until I looked I didn't know whether Bergotte was real or fictional. I can't see that it does any harm in looking for connections between real people and fictional characters as long as we know that that is what we're doing. Presumably contemporary French readers would have easily noticed the Bergotte/France connection whereas for us, reading a hundred years later, it's not so obvious.

One of the things I like about reading novels from different times and/or places is in comparing it with modern Western life. It's often illuminating to see what is different and what is the same. I recently read Zola's 'Rougon-Macquart' series of novels which was astounding for many reasons but one of those reasons was the amount of everyday details that he packed into the novels. Proust seems to be similar in that sense, though different in other ways. So for me, it's not just a sense of reading a novel it's also about immersing myself in a different world or culture.

It's believed that Bergotte is based on Anatole France. I've heard of him but has anyone read anything by him?

Alia wrote: "Is anyone here reading the Modern Library set on Kindle, and would you recommend it? Is it adding to or taking away from your enjoyment of reading Proust? "

I'm reading the Vintage UK version of the MKE translation on Kindle and so far it's been ok. I did wonder if, with a writer such as Proust, I'd regret not reading a physical book...but so far - no problems.

One of the original reasons for reading it on kindle was because I was contemplating reading it whilst commuting but I don't think I'll be doing that now...I'm going to stick with the kindle version though.

Marcelita wrote: "Keep looking, as that is not the discrepancy I saw in the photographs/slides.
Proust has taught me to look more closely. ..."

I'm not too sure...The tree leaves are blue not green (but that's just a technical issue)...they're framed so couldn't be used in the lantern as they are (but that's presumably to present them)....is the story sequence wrong in the bottom picture?...Her dress changes colour?

Thanks for the link Larry - it's an interesting article. From what I've read so far Proust has his humorous moments.

Thanks for the links and photos Marcelita, it helps with visualising the place and the period. I take it that they're photos that you took whilst visiting the house? Was that recently?

Discrepancy? The slides seem very rectangular. In the book they're described as being oval...is that it?

Marcelita wrote: "Caveat: Do not read the novel as an autobiography. Proust blended what he read and witnessed with his imagination."

I realise that as I've been posting messages I'm writing 'Proust' when I really mean the 'narrator'. Maybe it would be best if we all decide to use 'narrator' when we're talking about the fictional character and 'Proust' when we're talking about the real person. Any suggestions?

Tor wrote: "I sometimes wonder how Proust gets away with using such a verbose style. Why do even modern readers accept it, even love it? (I do too, 99% of the time.) Maybe it's because it enhances the personality of the narrator and protagonist..."

I wonder just how natural his style is or whether he developed it that way for a specific reason. One effect is to slow down the reader - after all, pulp writers do the opposite when they want to speed up the action. Maybe Proust felt that all modern writing was veering towards the pulp writing style. This is just speculation at this stage...once I've read a bit more of ISOLT I'll probably read a bit more 'about' Proust.

Many years ago I read Gibbon's 'Decline & Fall' (c1780s) and his style was similar in a way, in that there were long convoluted sentences with asides and diversions...and loads of footnotes as well. As long as I concentrated and my mind didn't wander then I found it crystal clear and beautiful. But if I couldn't give it 100% of my attention then I was lost. I'm finding Proust's style is having a similar effect.

I also have a bit an attraction to this type of writing style as I naturally tend towards writing long sentences myself. I usually have to force myself to chop them down into shorter sentences to make it more 'readable'; especially at work. :-)

Tor wrote: "Hi all,

"For many years, during the course of which -- especially before his marriage -- M. Swann the younger came often to see them at Combray, my great-aunt and my grandparents never suspected t..."

**reply to Tor's original post moved from Introductions folder***

Welcome Tor. This seems to be a good example of Proust's convoluted sentences. I've found, so far anyway, that I make sense of them on a first reading if I read them slowly; but if I go back to analyse them then it's a bit of a struggle.

I'll leave a grammatical deconstruction to people more suited to such a task but it seems to make logical sense to me. Once all the asides or diversions are whittled away it reads as:

For many years M. Swann the younger came often to see them at Combray, during the course of which my great-aunt and my grandparents never suspected that he had ceased entirely to live in the society which his family had frequented, and that, they were harbouring one of the most distinguished members of the Jockey Club, and one of the men most sought after in the aristocratic world of the Faubourg Saint-Germain.

I guess that most modern writers would go further and 'boil' it down to several sentences.

Guy wrote: "On the subject: that bit when he's describing bow he recalls all the beds in all the rooms he's slept in. (page 6 my edition)... I do that sometimes--not ALL the beds or rooms, but the ones from childhood.

Anyone else do that?"

I don't....but I may start to :-) Others may though.

When I was in my teens I remember regularly waking up in the dark and I was convinced that my bed was facing the opposite way than what it was. I 'knew' it wasn't but I was 'convinced' it was...it was low-level eerie...

Although this first section has a lot to like I think my favourite part is the more straightforward narrative when Swann visits Combray and we get to see all the slights and snobbery of the family. They're unaware of Swann's life away from them, it seems, and anyway whatever he gets up to is beneath them. We're viewing Swann at this stage from their point of view but we're made to realise that it is not whole.

My favourite quote from this section:

But then, even in the most insignificant details of our daily life, none of us can be said to constitute a material whole, which is identical for everyone, and need only be turned up like a page in an account-book or the record of a will; our social personality is created by the thoughts of other people.

Hopefully there will be much more of this throughout the rest of the novel.

Guy wrote: "I connected w/Marcel about the lantern as the one I stared at in my parents' room ..."

I suppose we're more susceptible to such musings at times when our subconscious can vie with our conscious thought such as when we're drifting in and out of sleep or recovering from an illness - Proust's involuntary and voluntary memory.

I didn't realise that the 'Madeleine moment' came so early in the novel. I liked the fact that even that was of Proust remembering having the involuntary memory of prior events.

Guy wrote: "I was thrown out of my reverie by the paragraph beginning:
"Riding at a jerky trot, Golo, filled with an infamous design.." (page 10 of the 3 v French Pleiade version). Got out of bed... Wikipedia ..."

And it's strange (to me) just how sensitive little Marcel is, because even this light display has a bad effect on him: "But I cannot express the discomfort I felt at this intrusion of mystery and beauty into a room which I had succeeded in filling with my own personality..." He finds it all fascinating but frightening.

I wonder how old he's supposed to be during this part of the story? I'm guessing about nine or ten years old.

Gloria wrote: "Page 49
"And in myself, too, many things have perished which i imagined would last for ever, and new ones have arisen, giving birth to new sorrows and new joys which in those days i could not have foreseen, just as now the old are hard to understand."

Yes, that's a powerful quote; there seem to be so many in this first chapter. Proust gets right down to business straight away in that he discusses sleep, dreams, remembering & forgetting dreams ("...I had forgotten the girl of my dream.") before he's then off on the trauma of not getting his nightly kiss and the character studies of his family and Swann. It's brilliant stuff.

I read somewhere that the initial chapter contains all the major themes of the rest of the novel - which bodes well as I really liked it. I'm reading it slowly, even re-reading much of it as I'm trying to get used to Proust's style; it's quite old-fashioned in a way, what with the long sentences and many digressions but it's good as it forces the reader to slow down and concentrate. I would like to make this my reading mission of the year: to slow down my reading; to read less not more and to concentrate on quality of reading not quantity. Hopefully Proust should help with that.

Proust's cork-lined room always seems like a dream to me. When I read books, either at home, or commuting, I have to cope with people talking, phones ringing, people talking to me, electric drills, car alarms going off, the tv, radio, music blaring, the door bell ringing etc. etc. The thought of actually reading a book in solitude is an unrealistic dream...the cork-lined room looks very appealing.

When are you starting Joni?

midnightfaerie wrote: "@Jonathan - you must have at least 1 window in your cork-lined room. I entirely agree with Joni. "

No! No windows. I'm getting ready to lock myself in. :-)

I nearly started reading Proust today but stopped myself - I've decided that I'm going to start on 1st January...

Yeah, dive in Evan. Will you be Prousting in 2014?

Thanks for the link Joni, it looks like an interesting book. I find the arts/science divide peculiar; I'm a physics graduate who enjoys art & literature but this was quite unusual when I was studying. I could never understand why for most people it was either/or.

For me, smells spark memories more than taste. The other day I smelled the smell of my first classroom!

Joni wrote: "I'm jealous Jonathan. I've got so far as finding several madeleine recipes but I've as yet to bake. Baked a batch several years ago and didn't like them (found them too dry) but then I didn't dunk ..."

Well, I bought mine:-) I was just walking around the supermarket and my eye caught the word 'madeleine' and I did a double-take...so I had to buy them...it was fate!

My Proust-prep got serious today: I had my very first madeleine - dipped in tea of course....yum! yum!

Thanks for the warning Marcelita; I'll try to watch out for any spoilers on my pre-Proust prep. I just didn't think it would be an issue with his work.

Re 'Paintings in Proust', I'm just going to use it initially to view the paintings and get to know some of the artists mentioned as I don't know much about visual art. I'll probably ignore the text at this stage - so hopefully there won't be any spoiler issues there.