Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Alia wrote: "**SPOILERS**

I was quite shocked that Odette ended up being the much talked about Mme. Swann with the poor reputation. I really have a hard time understanding after all he went through with her th..."

I was surprised as well, because in the last part of 'Swann in Love' it looked like Swann was beginning to accept that Odette no longer loved him.

I was a bit confused with this at the time because I thought that Proust wrote that Swann would never she her again...except once in a dream. So I thought the break was final.

Going back, I managed to find the sentence that made me think this:

And just as, before kissing Odette for the first time, he had sought to imprint upon his memory the face that for so long had been familiar before it was altered by the additional memory of their kiss, so he could have wished - in thought at least - to have been able to bid farewell, while she still existed, to the Odette who had aroused his love and jealousy, to the Odette who had caused him to suffer, and whom now he would never see again.

So, am I correct that he is saying that Swann will never see the 'Odette that he loved' ever again, though he will see Odette?

Marcelita wrote: "Oh, I'm not "territorial." So, I will take whatever character is leftover....but hope there is some humor embedded in the portrait and maybe a top hat. ;)
"

I often wish that top hats would come back into fashion. I'm not so keen on monocles though: :-)

I quite liked the General de Froberville as he's a bit of a dirty old man.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Can anyone tell me if the song that is played at the Saint-Euverte party an actual composition, or is it something that was written by one of the characters? (I'm talking about the song with the C..."

I assumed that it was a fictional piece by a fictional composer. I'm not sure if Proust had any particular piece in mind though?

Marcelita wrote: "Last night, at my Proust reading group in the Village, our leader announced that she was "re-writing" the Saint-Euverte party, and we should pick out a favorite character...preferably one of the opposite sex and dress accordingly. ;) "

Marcelita: Have you decided who you're going as?

The group looks like hard-core Proustians! Have you read ISOLT several times or do you read 'around' it these days?

I'm intrigued by the 're-write' of the party. I keep thinking it would be amusing to re-write some of ISOLT in the style of Hemingway or Bukowski....I haven't the skill to do it though: :-(

When I first heard about Proust I imagined it was about endless parties and gatherings between the 'best' in society. I expected that this would include cultural events but also a lot of bitching and fighting amongst themselves, bon mots and inheritance squabbles. Well, by the time I decided to read ISOLT I realised that it wasn't about that, not all of it anyway - but this section is pretty close to that initial impression.

Swann decides to venture out alone to a grand party held by the Marquise de Saint-Euverte. I feel Proust's prose really comes alive when he concentrates on characters and we get it in abundance in this section as he describes the servants and guests.

I really liked the bit where Swann had arrived and was taking note of the servants, something he'd never really done before, when one servant, of a 'ferocious aspect', approaches him the narrator mentions that he was 'exhibiting at once an utter contempt for his person and the most tender regard for his hat.' Ha Ha!

When did these people WORK? How did they get their money? "

Work was for the lower orders my dear. :-)

I guess if they owned land and/or property then they would have collected rent or income from that. They may have had shares (Swann mentions giving Odette advice on buying shares at some point), they may have dabbled in the arts, though I doubt if that brought in any money. On top of just inheriting money they may have been politicians, army officers, been directors of companies etc...in short all the lucrative jobs that didn't require doing much...unless they chose to.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "But, I do have a question: Is this section "Swann in Love" supposed to still be written by the same narrator? "

No, it's not a dumb question and yes, he does appear to be omniscient.

In the penultimate paragraph of Part One which starts with 'Thus would I often lie....' the narrator explains that the story was told to him by someone (by whom? Swann? Odette?) and admits that there is an extraordinary 'precision of detail'.

I wonder if this is explained in further volumes or if it is just one of those things that we just have to accept. :-)

Lucinda wrote: "yes I agree it does seem to be a matter of getting acclimated to the writer's style. And I have found that once I do get acclimated I feel like I have been drawn completely into that writer's world (this is definitely the case for me with Faulkner at least). "

I realised at an early stage that I wasn't going to be able to read Proust on my morning commute. I have to read a section through reasonably quickly but a give it a re-read a few days later. If it still doesn't sink in at that point I just move on....

It might be interesting to see how others have changed their reading patterns (or not) to cope with Proust?

I also find Proust verbose and convoluted; this isn't a bad thing but it makes his writing appear quite old-fashioned. Many Victorian writers wrote that way and Henry James also springs to mind, though I still struggle with his prose. But once the reader gets used to Proust's style they can enjoy it. I think the trick is that each reader has to find their own way to read the book.

I quite like books and authors that are stylistically different, e.g. Beckett & Céline are two of my favourite authors. They don't have to be difficult, just inventive and playful. I still remember reading Joseph Heller's book Something Happened years ago and suddenly came across a closing parenthesis, when I checked back I realised that the opening parenthesis was several pages earlier! Maybe he was trying to outdo Proust.

The pace, as it is at the moment, suits me. I finished Swann's Way at the weekend but I plan to re-read bits. I'm not planning on starting Vol. 2 early though.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Hahahahahahaha! Did that little girl, Gilberte, just flip him the bird?!? LOL! "

Yes, I wondered as well what the sign was. I wonder if there are any experts on early twentieth century French hand gestures out there that can enlighten us?

Re: that kind of woman

I liked the quote (p.88 Vintage UK, possibly p.104 in ML) when the narrator is commenting on his Uncle's 'relations' and just before the 'lady in pink' episode:

Now my uncle knew many of them [actresses] personally, and also ladies of another class, not clearly distinguished from actresses in my mind.

Tor wrote: "Even in the beginning of his relationship with Odette, the days he later glorifies, he was having affairs with other girls, even bringing them in his carriage on his way to see Odette."

I was starting to think that events had been engineered by Odette, but as I've just been re-reading this section I think that she's just playing the game of mistress with Swann, which she does quite naturally. And Swann is happy initially to play along by keeping his allotted times and venues with her. Surely though, given that Swann is unmarried and rich, she must have considered the possibility of marriage, especially when it's apparent that he's actually in love with her. I think this is where I miss not seeing things also from her p.o.v. I can, however, see the benefits from Proust's view; we become just as unsure as to Odette's true feelings and we become almost as paranoid as Swann.

I enjoyed the first half of this section as it was quite humorous, almost a farce; what with Swann spying (very badly) on Odette and trailing around behind her, the final expulsion from the Verdurins etc. I even get the feeling that Proust was enjoying himself with this part of the book, especially when he claims that Swann 'would plunge into the most intoxicating romance in the lover's library, the railway time-table...' or when Swann is hoping that Odette will decline an offer to go on a trip, he says to himself 'Think of listening to Wagner for a whole fortnight with a woman who takes about as much interest in music as a tone-deaf newt - that would be fun!'

Although this is my first read of ISOLT, I find that I'm re-reading each section after a few days and I'm finding that my opinion of it has generally changed on the second read. I don't know if I'll keep up this read/re-read schedule throughout though.

I can't decide whether to feel sorry for Swann or not. True, the Verdurins and Odette treat him shabbily, but the Verdurins treat everyone like that and Swann wasn't exactly truthful to Odette. When it suited him, Swann was happy with being ignorant of Odette's afternoon assignments. It's a shame that Proust's narrative is always from Swann's p.o.v.

Susan wrote: "Page 463 is the last page. Oh God, that's depressing...I had better slow down. I don't want it to end."

Maybe do a re-read? :-) What's the ISBN of yours?

Susan wrote: "No, my version shows 'Swann in Love' to finish on page 414, but perhaps it is just that I am in the US."

What is the last page of the book? i.e. the last page of the story.

Susan wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I'm planning on reading the Vintage Kindle edition rather than the Modern Library version as it's readily available here in the UK. As the pagination seems to be different than the..."

Susan: I've got 'Swann in Love' going from page 225 to 460. The total number of pages is 513. Does that match with your version?

I've just been re-reading the second part of this section. I particularly liked the paragraph (p. 300 in Vintage ed., approx. p.356 in ML ed.) that starts 'And so, in the whole of the Verdurin circle...' and ends with ...they were powerless to extort from him.'

The Verdurins are uneasy that Swann is not one of 'them', the 'faithful' and he is in fact a 'heretic' who won't openly denounce the 'bores'. I can identify with Swann in this position, who is actually unaware of the repositioning of the group against him, as I have found myself in such positions socially before. He's unwilling to join in in the denunciations of the 'bores' and is therefore considered dangerous by the Verdurins though he is really just politically naive. He's unaware that Mme Verdurin is a tyrant and that the others are sycophants that would attack him on a single word from her.

With the introduction of Forcheville are we witnessing Odette's affections switching? She also is willing to criticise Swann openly within the group.

Merci Andree. The book looks interesting. I hadn't heard of cattleyas before reading this section of Proust.

Thanks Andree & Marcelita. I wasn't sure if it was a metaphor that I was unaware of.