Assassins of Thasalon spoiler discussion space
Here, as has become my custom, is a space for persons who have already read to book to freely discuss it with each other in the comments. Enjoy!
Ta, L.
(Didn't think I'd need to set this post up so soon, it being a novel this outing -- it takes me 3 or 4 days to get through, though I'm slower these days -- but, speed readers.)
Ta, L.
(Didn't think I'd need to set this post up so soon, it being a novel this outing -- it takes me 3 or 4 days to get through, though I'm slower these days -- but, speed readers.)
message 1:
by
Talli
(new)
May 12, 2021 07:28AM
Page 203 - lighting strike - should be lightning?
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Page 208/209 maybe not typo - two "even"s in the sentence
Page 190 - a few bad stems - is this just a phrase I've never come across before?
Page 200 - requestioned the guardsmen - is that right or is it supposed to be requisitioned?
It was great to get updates on "old friends" like the orphans and Dubro and of course the Xarre household. Adelis has such a short time on stage it occurred to me that he might be a character something like Aral - I think you once said he was there more for other characters to revolve around or be affected by.
Page 12 of 244:"Adelis glanced aside, familiar enough with Penric and his passenger to be unsure who’d just spoken"
Should that "unsure" be "sure"?
Page 60 of 244:Iroki took in this last as seriously as Pen thought it deserved. “Aye, there’s a poser. It does explain… or maybe it don’t.”
Should that "don't" be "doesn't"?
Page 61 of 244:Nikys saw them to the front steps. With searching look, she reached up to grip Pen’s shoulders.
Should that be "With a searching look"?
Talli wrote: "Page 190 - a few bad stems - is this just a phrase I've never come across before?"Yes, Orban idiom. Not a typo.
L.
Kosigan wrote: "Page 60 of 244:Iroki took in this last as seriously as Pen thought it deserved. “Aye, there’s a poser. It does explain… or maybe it don’t.”
Should that "don't" be "doesn't"?"
Nope. Dialogue, characterization.
L.
Kosigan wrote: "Page 12 of 244:"Adelis glanced aside, familiar enough with Penric and his passenger to be unsure who’d just spoken"
Should that "unsure" be "sure"?"
Nope. Adelis isn't sure who speaks; the others just assume it to be Pen.
L.
Talli wrote: "Page 203 - lighting strike - should be lightning?"Yes, argh. (I had a bet with myself, based on long experience, that the very first thing anyone would say about these months of work would be to point out a typo. I, er, win? :-)
I will wait a week or so to collect and collate all the errata, and then run them past my e-handler for corrections.
Ta, L.
Aww. Now I feel bad. I should have said how much I loved it first.
If you happen to notice a typo while reading, it's much easier to mention it than to give an overall response to a whole novel you've just read for the first time.I don't trust my reactions on first reading; I'll know better what I think of a story after reading it several times.
If we can talk spoilers here, it seems to me that the end of this story leaves Adelis willing and able to return permanently to Cedonia; but what about the obligation to Duke Jurgo of Orbas that he mentions near the beginning? Perhaps this problem will be discussed further in the next story…
Duke Jurgo sent him with his blessing, prefering to part as friends so that he has a powerful ally rather than to attempt to keep Adelis from what he wanted. They discuss this and how Jurgo really doesn't have the power to stop Adelis if Adelis decides to go. Jurgo makes the best possible decision, he gets a man of divided desires a bit further away while gaining a strong connection in 'enemy' territory. As much as Jurgo would have liked to keep a man of Adelis's ability around, he isn't so selfish as to blind himself to reality.
Sandy, I suppose you're right from Jurgo's point of view, but I'd have thought that abandoning Jurgo so suddenly might weigh on Adelis's conscience.At least Jurgo doesn't seem to be losing Penric as well.
Talli wrote: "Aww. Now I feel bad. I should have said how much I loved it first."Heh. That's the old trick when delivering crit -- start with the positive remarks, then, when you have them listening and nodding, hit them with the negative.
Not that most writers need persuaded to agree that fixing typos is a good idea, mind.
And, yes, while it's hoped the conversation may soon drift to more substantive discussions, nailing the last errata is a housekeeping chore that has to be done sometime, and sooner is better.
L.
I was wondering if now that Penric can be himself in Thasalon, could he help find a physician sorcerer to continue the treatments on Lady Xarre? Also wondering the status of Idrene's house with the hidden treasure.
Lois wrote: "Talli wrote: "Page 203 - lighting strike - should be lightning?"Yes, argh. (I had a bet with myself, based on long experience, that the very first thing anyone would say about these months of wor..."
I missed that one myself. :(
I think Jurgo is a big picture guy. With the success of the excursions he doesn't just have an ally in the enemy camp, it may no longer be an enemy camp. Fewer threats to independence, increased trade, all kinds of benefits. Adelis let Rina keep his cape, so if he knew he'd be wearing a different uniform so did Jurgo.
At the very least, Jurgo gets a prominent general in Cedonia who is never going to agree to attack him!
Page 163: in discussions about a new regent, Laris refers to herself as a half-aunt to the boy emperor. Isn’t she a half-sister?There is also discussion about a potential betrothal between “her (the empress’s ) son and our (Laris & Nao’s) daughter”. Wouldn’t that be between the emperor and his niece? Seems too closely related but perhaps allowable in Thasalon.
I'm mostly just here to thank Lois for the threesome. I am totally shipping that; I have faith that Adelis will adapt. :-) Great read overall -- I finished grading for the semester, handed it in, and dove into the book like a cool drink on a hot day.
I'm really confused about Laris and Nao and their relationship to the boy emperor too. I thought I might figure it out second read
Keith wrote: "Page 163: in discussions about a new regent, Laris refers to herself as a half-aunt to the boy emperor. Isn’t she a half-sister?There is also discussion about a potential betrothal between “her (..."
Half-sister, yes argh. Braino not typo, sigh. Shall add that one to the list.
You may be relieved to know that that particular proposal does not actually fly, if nonetheless serving briefly as a good-faith offering. Though the regency council one of course does.
There's a great deal of real life precedent even without going back to the Egyptians. At one point, some genealogist once figured out, the back-breeding and devolving Spanish royal house actually managed to come up with scions that were genetically closer than siblings. That tends not to happen so often in Cedonia due to the not-infrequent infusions of new blood via, er, bloodshed. But they've had a lot of centuries of history to try every variant.
Ta, L.
Talli wrote: "I was wondering if now that Penric can be himself in Thasalon, could he help find a physician sorcerer to continue the treatments on Lady Xarre? Also wondering the status of Idrene's house with the hidden treasure."
These are both good thoughts. Penric apparently remains based in Vilnoc, but he could visit Thasalon occasionally, and he or Lady Xarre could perhaps find another physician sorcerer there, although they seem scarce and valuable.
I just belatedly clued in to the plural in the title! Hee.Cedonia seems to have far more sorcerers and saints than anywhere else: is that just because it's more populated, or because it's an older, more developed country, or does it only seem that way because the plot required more to be gathered in one place than previous plots required?
(I'm also curious about the significant diminishment of sorcery and knowledge thereof in the time of Curse of Chalion. Did Penric's two-volume treatise not survive the centuries? (I realize it's because you wrote them in reverse chronological order, but it creates an interesting historical question!))
Love Blessed Iroki! And the whales! "I'll never ask too small again." What a wonderful thought.
Thank you! Much enjoyed!
Page 8 - deep in my councils - should that be council?
Page 205 - temple sensitives - temple should be capitalized. It took me a while to figure out when it should be and I think it's when it refers to the religious body but not when it refers to a building.
Just about to start chapter 12, but must break off to say how very much I'm enjoying this. Such a treat to have a new Pen & Des - and novel length, too! I've been hoping that Bosha would become involved in Penric's mission, and now it looks like he has :)Back to chapter 12...
Talli wrote: "Page 8 - deep in my councils - should that be council?"A council is a kind of meeting, and the idea of plural meetings makes sense to me in this context. Arguably, the word should be 'counsels'—'counsel' meaning advice. Google tells me that Edith Wharton has used the phrase "deep in my counsels". But I think either word can be used.
I've also Googled "deep in his counsels" and "deep in his councils", and found plenty of precedents for both. Apparently the choice of word here is a controversy that I wasn't previously aware of!
If we cast this as a movie, I want Jeff Bridges to play Iroki as The Dude.
Talli wrote: "Page 208/209 maybe not typo - two "even"s in the sentence"Page numbers change with type size. Can you give the whole sentence? Which should be uniquely and easily searchable.
Ta, L.
Kim wrote: "Cedonia seems to have far more sorcerers and saints than anywhere else: is that just because it's more populated, or because it's an older, more developed country, or does it only seem that way because the plot required more to be gathered in one place than previous plots required?(I'm also curious about the significant diminishment of sorcery and knowledge thereof in the time of Curse of Chalion. Did Penric's two-volume treatise not survive the centuries? ."...
Both the first two. Cedonia is at least 12 times the size of the duchy of Orbas, and used to be even larger. And Thasalon is probably the largest city on the continent at this point.
The Ibran Peninsula is an interesting problem for the retcon tapdance. In part the Bastard's Order is behind there due to the frequent back-and-forthing with the Quadrenes, who systematically destroy all things having to do with the fifth god whenever they take possession of an area. It's also possible Pen never got around to completing the Ibran translation; I haven't decided. But it's also a matter of close viewpoint; neither Cazaril nor Ista are nearly as deep into the technicalities of sorcery as Penric, who has it as a profession. Through Pen's eyes, we see way, way more of magery than ever seen by the person-in-the-street. Now, if we had Foix's (later, post-bear) viewpoint, we'd be in position to learn a lot more about what's up with magic in the peninsula.
Ta, L.
I really enjoyed it, thank you! Always very happy to spend time with Pen and Des, and it was very satisfying to have Adelis back in Cedonia and with Tanar (and Bosha). I also very much liked Iroki, and the contrast between his laid-back character and the disruption the god brings.On Penric's books, I am fascinated by what his individual development of printing plates does to the development of books and printing in that world - clearly the books that Caz uses, like Ordo, are printed versions, I had always assumed with moveable type. Only a sorcerer can produce the plates Pen's way, of course, but can't help hoping others try the technique. Would skew the production of books in large numbers to things that a sorcerer is interested enough in to make printing plates of.
Or things that the sorcerer's employer is interested in, which might skew another way.
First, some semi-random favorite lines:"Seducer. Get your own daughter." "I mean to."
"like a chicken that brought its own pot and onions"
"Her heart is large, Sura. Spacious. I don't think you'll need to move out to make room."
---
And now the possibly-errors that I noticed:
"who neither asked for nor was offered names either": delete the second "either".
"--then and sent walking naked and barefoot": switch the first two words.
"it's a task no one else in Vilnoc dare take on without me": delete "else".
"It said something about either Thasalon or Methani this this was the first question": change the first "this" to "that".
"--and even more glad not have to find his own way": insert another "to" before "have".
"She was as good as teaspoon of syrup of poppies": insert "a" before "teaspoon".
"had requestioned the guardsmen": should be "requisitioned".
---
I especially enjoyed the characters, both the old and the new, and both the cameos and the longer visits. I will want to re-read it a few days from now to properly savor the language and storytelling. (The contrast with some recently-read fiction from less-skillful authors is ...marked.)
Juli wrote: "First, some semi-random favorite lines: Heh. An excellent way to start.
Some good catches... Once again demonstrating that every eye sees a different and not necessarily overlapping set of errata. I keep thinking we must be done with this cleanup, but lo, no. I'll wait a bit more.
That "neither/either" combo was stumbled over by test readers before you -- trouble, is, the clause means something different if you delete the either. I did try, back when. It wouldn't stick, for that reason.
Onwards...
L.
Juli is clearly a suckup or learned from my mistakes lol.A big issue for me is that when I exit the Goodreads app and then open it back up, it doesn't take me back to where I was so I can't start a comment, reference the book in the Kindle app, then come back to it. My old brain doesn't want to hold much at a time so it's a challenge to report possible typos. Chatting about the wonderful story is easier because I don't have to go back and forth.
I think the sentence with two "even"s has:so secret it could not even be recognized
Talli wrote: "I think the sentence with two "even"s has:so secret it could not even be recognized"
Found it, OK.
L.
I was in relaxed mode reading this story, and the only thing that struck me as an error was on the first page of Chapter 2: "It had been in a ferret, or some like weasel."Looking at it the fourth or fifth time, I realized that the sentence isn't actually in error, it can be construed as making sense, but nevertheless I tripped over it and had trouble making sense of it. It helps a bit if you know that a ferret is a kind of weasel; which I didn't until I looked it up.
I'm now reading the whole story a second time. I usually appreciate fiction better with rereading, though occasionally fiction by lesser writers has a superficial charm that wears off with rereading.
I saw your notice yesterday morning, immediately downloaded the book to my Kindle, and then threw my plans for the day to the winds and spent the next 3 hours devouring the book. Yes, I noticed some typos. No, I didn't make notes because that would have slowed me down and pulled me out of the story. And I enjoyed it so much. The pace was great, just moving me along the whole time, and many of the vignettes were hilarious. One that's not been mentioned yet is when Penric is introduced to the general he entertained as Mira. "Have we met before?"I also plan a reread in a couple of days to savor the story at leisure. I reread the whole series in chronological order before The Physicians of Vilnoc, and it is still fairly fresh in mind. Just finished a reread of Paladin of Souls and The Hallowed Hunt last week. Every time I read the latter, I like it more.
More favorite lines:the cat following in historical hopes of tidbits dribbling down from its mistress
By the time Pen had excavated the two good chairs from his filing system
She held Rina in her grandmotherly lap, feeding her tidbits from her plate to divert her wriggling, like trying to bribe an escaping octopus
I had also highlighted the "excavated two good chairs" and "escaping octopus lines." And I loved the unexpected meeting with Mira's old flame!
So would they colloquially be known as "Assasalons" or "Athasalons"? Or, if you have a lisp, both?
Does Ikos live nearby? Would he have come to the wedding?
Lois wrote: "Kim wrote: "Cedonia seems to have far more sorcerers and saints than anywhere else: is that just because it's more populated, or because it's an older, more developed country, or does it only seem ..."I was wondering if seeing the world through Pen’s eyes is contributing to this, in that he might be underestimating his own skill and insight as a ‘rider’. It seems most other sorcerers have a quite different relationship with their demons. It’s not just that Desdemona is so much older and more experienced, but that Pen as a scholar is making theological insights that reflect in the subtleties of his use of her abilities.
But Pen doesn’t realise that he is unusual, and thus the reader only gets the odd hint that other sorcerers do.
I love that Pen finally gets to try his induced narcolepsy trick and that Dubro calls it that weird thing you do with rats just like the family does
