Rob Smyth's Blog, page 151
December 9, 2017
West Ham United 1-0 Chelsea: Premier League – as it happened
Marko Arnautovic’s lovely early goal and some defiant defending gave West Ham a deserved victory over the champions at the London Stadium
5.02pm GMT
Reaction from the London Stadium
Related: Antonio Conte concedes title after Chelsea’s bubble burst by West Ham
2.39pm GMT
Related: West Ham’s Marko Arnautovic sinks Chelsea to delight of David Moyes
2.24pm GMT
West Ham win their first Premier League game under David Moyes! They deserve it for an admirable, some might say obscene, level of effort, and a beautiful early goal from Marko Arnautovic. Chelsea had so much of the ball but created hardly anything. West Ham are still in the bottom three but this win should give them so much impetus in their relegation battle. It might also be the day David Moyes’ managerial career got going again. Thanks for your company. You can follow the 3pm games with Simon Burnton, and a freshly baked match report will appear here shortly. Bye!
Related: Tottenham v Stoke, Real Madrid v Sevilla and more: clockwatch – live!
2.21pm GMT
90+3 min Fabregas swishes a half-volley high over the bar from long range. i think this is over.
2.20pm GMT
90+2 min West Ham have taken the wheels off the bus, which is parked right on the edge of their own area.
2.19pm GMT
90 min There will be five minutes of added time.
2.18pm GMT
89 min This, as Tom Jordan points out, is the kind of dirty, tough game Diego Costa would have loved. Chelsea have lacked a bit of mongrel.
2.17pm GMT
87 min Obiang, on a yellow card, fouls Moses. The referee plays to advantage and doesn’t go back to book Obiang. That could have been a second yellow. Stuart Pearce, part of the West Ham support staff, hoofs the ball away to waste time and is sent to the dugout; then Masuaku is booked for timewasting.
2.16pm GMT
86 min “Hi Rob,” says Ross Jennings. “I seem to remember Chelsea time-wasting from a throw-in against Liverpool less than 1 minute in to the worst game of my footballing life (better remembered by Steven Gerrard’s trip) in 2014. Was a masterclass in winding up from José, and ultimately led to the tactical blindness that was having Gerrard as our last man at the back in the last minute of the first half. Bad times.”
The twisted thing about that game was that both Chelsea’s goals came in time that was added on because of their timewasting.
2.14pm GMT
84 min Another Chelsea chance, this time for Hazard. He took Morata’s touch in his stride, moved into the D and blazed a left-footed shot high over the bar. It wasn’t as good a chance as Morata’s, though he should probably have worked Adrian.
2.13pm GMT
83 min Morata misses a great chance! Kante, surrounded on the edge of the area, managed to force a through ball into Morata, who was played onside by Masuaku on the other side of the area. He turned smoothly but lashed a first-time shot wide of the near post.
2.11pm GMT
82 min The West Ham fans are cheering every clearance now. Quite right too: this would be an immense victory, and probably a season-changing one.
2.09pm GMT
80 min Antonio Conte looks resigned to defeat. It just hasn’t happened for Chelsea today.
2.07pm GMT
78 min Antonio, who has put in a monstrous shift, is so shattered that when the ball goes out of play he takes the opportunity for a lie-down. Andre Ayew replaces him.
2.06pm GMT
76 min “Hi Rob,” says Steven Hughes. “I’ve seen plenty of first half time-wasting at Ashton Gate this season. It’s the groovy new thing. Teams realise that that’s the half in which to add on time is deemed churlish when there’s a whole 45+ minutes to go: it tends to be two minutes at the very most so there’s free rein to time waste and break up play. Want a law change? Make all first halves end on exactly 45.00 and add everything on at the end. Not only would it be fair but it would inject most games with a new lease of life if there was the thick end of 10 minutes added on with 90 minutes on the clock.”
What about Robbie Savage’s blood-pressure levels though?
2.04pm GMT
75 min Chelsea don’t look like scoring at the moment, although fatigue is likely to be an issue for West Ham because they have worked so hard. Hazard teases his way past Obiang and whacks a cross-shot that goes behind for a corner.
2.02pm GMT
72 min West Ham are emplying a variation on Two Banks of Four. They have a Bank of Five and then a Bank of Three in front, and Chelsea can’t find an eye in the needle. Neither side has had a shot on target in the second half.
2.00pm GMT
71 min “West Bromwich started to time waste in their match against Spurs at Wembley in the 15th minute,” says John Tumbridge. “That’s the fifteenth minute of the first half.”
1.59pm GMT
70 min Obiang clatters Kante and is booked. Meanwhile, my colleague James Dart has pointed out this sensational display of early timewasting.
1.58pm GMT
69 min West Ham make their first change, with Diafra Sakho replacing the goalscorer Arnautovic. He’s had a terrific game.
1.57pm GMT
68 min Fabregas’s free-kick from the right falls to Christensen, whose volley is brilliantly blocked by Reid.
1.56pm GMT
68 min And now Cresswell is booked for a deliberate foul on Willian, just outside the area on the Chelsea right.
1.55pm GMT
67 min Reid is booked for a cynical foul on Morata.
1.53pm GMT
64 min Chelsea make their final change: Willian replaces Davide Zappacosta.
1.52pm GMT
63 min The impressive Masuaku charges forward to win a corner. West Ham’s attitude and controlled aggression have been outstanding in this game.
1.52pm GMT
62 min Azpilicueta’s long-range shot deflects dangerously in the area, and Adrian reacts smartly to get there before Morata. For all Chelsea’s possession, they haven’t created much at all. West Ham’s narrow defence have given them very little space to work with.
1.51pm GMT
60 min “Hello Rob,” says Andrew Benton. “What do you think about sponsorship by betting companies - I see one sponsors West Ham. Clearly bad for your health if it gets out of hand, and not much good even if it doesn’t, is it likely to go the same way as cigarette sponsorship? Seems inappropriate to me, however much the companies promote responsible betting.”
Yes, I know what you mean. It doesn’t really bother me but I’m surprised, in the current climate, that more questions haven’t been asked about it.
1.48pm GMT
59 min I wonder what’s the earliest bit of timewasting in a football match. Has anybody ever had a jaunty saunter to the corner flag in the first half?
1.47pm GMT
58 min Adrian is booked for timewasting. In the 58th minute.
1.47pm GMT
58 min Zappacosta cuts in from the left and whips a curling cross-shot that bounces just wide of the far post. I think Adrian had it covered.
1.46pm GMT
57 min Chelsea try a training-ground free kick: Fabregas slides it into the area for Moses, whose attempted cross is blocked. That was a bit of a waste.
1.45pm GMT
56 min Obiang fouls Morata 30 yards from goal, and then Cresswell boots the ball against Morata as he rolls over. Chelsea are getting more and more frustrated.
1.44pm GMT
55 min Another Chelsea change: Victor Moses replaces Marcos Alonso. Zappacosta moves to left wing-back.
1.44pm GMT
54 min Arnatutovic’s touch hits the outstretched hand of Christensen just inside the box, prompting huge appeals for a penalty that are turned down by Anthony Taylor. I’m not sure Christensen knew much about that, though they have been given in the past. His arm was away from his body.
1.41pm GMT
52 min Fabregas stoops to head Zappacosta’s cross towards goal, and Ogbonna makes another vital block. Chelsea are all over West Ham like a cheap cliche.
1.40pm GMT
51 min West Ham break through Arnautovic and Antonio, who delays his through pass a fraction too long. Arnautovic is flagged offside, and Courtois saves his shot anyway.
1.39pm GMT
50 min Fabregas manufactures a clever cutback on the turn that is crucially cleared by Cresswell.
1.38pm GMT
49 min After a long spell of Chelsea possession, Pedro volleys a dropping ball well wide from long range. This is going to be a never-ending second half for West Ham.
1.37pm GMT
48 min “Hi Rob,” says Kevin Ryan. “Hope all good with you. Why on earth are Chelsea wearing that kit? Is it because the light blue sleeves of the Hammers are deemed to clash with Chelsea’s normal Royal blue? In which case don’t their white shorts clash with West Ham’s. Or is it just down to having to wear the second/third choice strips for the kit manufacturer’s filthy lucre? Strange.. However it does at least give me the chance to cackle and say ‘The whites, Dude.’”
1.34pm GMT
46 min Peep peep! West Ham begin the second half.
1.34pm GMT
Chelsea have made a half-time substitution: Pedro is replacing the subdued Tiemoue Bakayoko.
1.19pm GMT
A bit of half-time reading
Related: Wrong move: how Grzegorz Krychowiak and Renato Sanches lost their mojos
1.19pm GMT
Peep peep! West Ham end a stirring half with a passing move that is accompanied by olés from the home crowd. They lead through Marko Arnautovic’s high-class early goal - and though Chelsea have had an intimidating amount of possession, Adrian has had only one really difficult save to make. See you in 10 minutes for the second half.
1.15pm GMT
45 min Masuaku, who has put a serious shift in at left wing-back, wins another corner for West Ham. Morata clears at the near post.
1.14pm GMT
43 min West Ham have restored a bit of calm after a torrid 20-minute spell. They still won’t say no to half time, though.
1.11pm GMT
40 min The tireless Antonio harasses Courtois into a panicked clearance that goes behind for a West Ham corner. Nothing comes of it, but Masuaku wins a second corner moments later.
1.09pm GMT
39 min Look, West Ham, you can’t go on like this. They are under constant pressure from Chelsea.
1.08pm GMT
37 min Masuaku does well to nick a square pass towards Zappacosta. And then he goes and spoils it all by doing something stupid like dragging a low shot well wide from 20 yards.
1.07pm GMT
37 min Chelsea have parked West Ham’s bus for them, pinning them back with some probing football. I don’t think West Ham planned to be quite this defensive.
1.07pm GMT
36 min Fabregas lofts a pass into the area towards Hazard, with the covering Masuaku denying him a shooting chance. Eventually Morata, on the stretch, pokes the bouncing ball over the bar. It wasn’t much of a chance.
1.05pm GMT
34 min “It’s clear now this Chelsea set up struggle against the high press,” says Nate Elliott. “You’d think a simple ball over the top to Hazard or Morata would defeat this tactic. But what odds Antonio Conte endorses some punt-and-chase football? Also, you’re being generous to Winston Reid. He’s a lucky boy to get away with that fairly meaty shirt tug.”
Not for me Clive. We need a shirttugometer for these penalty appeals, like the light meter in cricket.
1.04pm GMT
33 min Morata plays the ball wide to Zappacosta and moves into the area. Zappacosta dumps a cross back towards the six-yard line, and Morata, under a lot of pressure from Ogbonna and Reid, heads wide. He couldn’t get a clear jump at the ball.
1.02pm GMT
32 min “There’s something I find stubbornly likeable about Arnautovic,” says Matt Dony. “I have zero reason to have any emotional investment in him, but there’s something about his combination of bullishness and occasionally surprising deftness of touch that cheers me, and I like seeing him do well. I always get the feeling he’s a very, very good footballer who (for a great number of reasons) often doesn’t play very, very well. I’m glad to see him get a goal. He’ll never win too many individual awards, he’ll never play for a top, top team (more cliches!) and he probably won’t be featured in too many ‘I Remember 2016’ talking head nonsense compilations. But I like him. Go on, son.”
1.01pm GMT
30 min It’s all Chelsea now. The good news for West Ham is that Hazard and Morata have been very quiet. The bad news for West Ham is that Hazard and Morata have been very quiet.
1.00pm GMT
29 min Chelsea take a short corner and work the ball to Zappacosta, who hits a fierce low shot from 17 yards with his left foot. Adrian gets down smartly to his left to make an excellent save.
12.59pm GMT
28 min Alonso dummies Zabaleta and plays the ball back infield to Kante, who shapes a nice long-range curler towards the bottom corner that is palmed round by Adrian, diving to his left.
12.58pm GMT
27 min Arnautovic makes something out of a nothing ball forward from Cresswell, muscling Christensen aside on the right corner of the box before hitting a speculative left-footed shot that is blocked.
12.57pm GMT
25 min This is Chelsea’s best spell of the match, with West Ham having to work increasingly hard defensively.
12.54pm GMT
23 min Fabregas slides a really cute pass into the area for Bakayoko, whose left-footed shot is blocked by a combination of Cresswell and Ogbonna.
12.52pm GMT
22 min “Did Morata get a card for his attempt at acting on 14 mins?” says Bruce Jackson. “The ref seems fairly keen on handing them out.”
Nope.
12.52pm GMT
20 min Azpilicueta’s right-wing cross is headed up in the air by Ogbonna, and Hazard hits a left-footed volley that bobbles a few yards wide of the far post. It was a very difficult ball to hit as it dropped out of the sky. Chelsea are starting to look a bit more dangerous.
12.49pm GMT
18 min Alonso is booked for fouling the keeper Adrian. That’s a bit harsh I think.
12.48pm GMT
17 min West Ham have been much the better team so far, though you can never really relax or take anything for granted against a team that includes Hazard, Morata and Fabregas.
12.44pm GMT
14 min Morata turns Reid superbly on the edge of the area, feels Reid’s hand on his shoulder and goes over. No penalty.
12.42pm GMT
11 min Chelsea have started sluggishly in quite a few games this season, and this is another. That said, I think it’s been more a case of West Ham excellence than Chelsea ennui.
12.40pm GMT
9 min West Ham have started excellently, with confidence and vigour in attack. It was such a good goal - both the one-two in a really tight space, and the decisive, classy finish.
12.38pm GMT
7 min Arnautovic was booked for demonstrating joy in the aftermath of scoring.
12.38pm GMT
West Ham take the lead with a fine goal! Arnautovic, surrounded by defenders just outside the box, plays a crisp one-two with Lanzini, shifts the ball away from Azpilicueta and places a fine left-footed shot into the far corner. That’s a brilliant goal.
12.34pm GMT
3 min It’s been a positive start from West Ham. Lanzini scoots excitingly down the left and is tripped by Zappacosta. The free-kick is headed away at the near post by Christensen.
12.32pm GMT
2 min West Ham are indeed playing three at the back.
12.31pm GMT
1 min Peep peep! Chelsea, in white, kick off. They are playing from right to left on the television screen, if you’re into the whole visualisation thing. West Ham are in claret and blue.
12.18pm GMT
Pre-match pluggery
1. This is thoroughly adorable: Owen Milbank, a young boy from Newmarket, is wearing shorts to school throughout the English winter to raise money for the Refugee Community Kitchen in Calais. If you want to make a donation or read more about the great work done by the RCK, you can click here.
12.05pm GMT
An email! “Rob!” says Benjamin Oates. “As I am currently working on a Saturday, hastily replying to customer complaints, your MBM coverage is currently my best, and quite honestly only (due to company website restrictions), option for all the latest on West Ham 1-3 Chelsea. Let’s hope for something similar to this. Cheers!”
There have been some cracking individual goals in this fixture: Stanic, Di Canio ... some others I can’t remember. Anyway, enough about that mate, where’s my effing whatever service your company provides?
11.40am GMT
Pre-match reading
Related: David Sullivan: ‘I feel I haven’t done well enough. Nobody’s done well enough’
Related: N’Golo Kanté should win Ballon d’Or, says Chelsea manager Antonio Conte
11.36am GMT
As expected, Joe Hart is omitted. In a World Cup year. There’s a suggestion that West Ham may match Chelsea by playing three at the back, though they could also play 4-2-3-1 with this XI.
West Ham (3-4-2-1) Adrian; Ogbonna, Reid, Cresswell; Zabaleta, Noble, Obiang; Masuaku; Lanzini, Arnautovic; Antonio.
Substitutes: Hart, Rice, Chicharito, Ayew, Sakho, Fernandes, Carroll.
6.12pm GMT
Hello. It’s pretty unusual for a football team to turn a corner by losing a match, but West Ham may have done so at the Etihad Stadium last Sunday. The ten-ton tome of football cliches tells me that, if they play all season as they did in losing 2-1 to Manchester City, there is precisely 0.00 per cent chance they will be relegated.
That said, the fixture list has not exactly done them a solid. It would have been nice to follow that City match with a gentle, winnable home game. Instead West Ham host the champions Chelsea, who have been in blistering form since the sporting bromance between Eden Hazard and Alvaro Morata started to blossom. (That’s a bloody cliche as well, isn’t it? There’s no escape. We’re all doomed to be sick as parrots.)
December 7, 2017
Ashes lessons so far: from Australia’s fab four to England’s failure to convert | Rob Smyth
England have not been pulverised as they were in 2013-14. Theirs is a different kind of pain, the torment of life’s cruellest question: what if? History can also be written by the vanquished, even if few people want to read their version; and though Australia have been the better team, England will reflect on their inability to either recognise or seize a number of key moments. At Brisbane they were 246 for four in the first innings, and then had Australia 209 for seven before the mysterious case of the absent Jimmy Anderson. And they will forever wonder what might have happened had they performed in the first innings at Adelaide as they did in the second. This is shaping up to be England’s most frustrating tour of Australia since 1990-91, when they were competitive in all five Tests – and still lost 3-0.
Related: Two down with three Ashes matches to play – is there any way back for England? | Vic Marks
Related: After the hope comes the agony – and the fear of an England Ashes whitewash | Andy Bull
Continue reading...December 2, 2017
Arsenal 1-3 Manchester United: Premier League – as it happened
Jesse Lingard scored twice, Paul Pogba was sent off and David De Gea made some astonishing saves in a wonderful match at the Emirates
• Read David Hytner’s match report
7.48pm GMT
Read David Hytner’s match report from the Emirates Stadium:
Related: Pogba sent off but Lingard double helps Manchester United floor Arsenal
7.24pm GMT
Peep peep! That was a spectacular, ceaselessly entertaining game of football. Arsenal will feel that in a parallel universe they are celebrating a 5-3 victory. Paul Pogba was sent off, Anthony Martial produced one of the flicks of the season, Arsenal played attacking football of the highest class, David De Gea made some astonishing saves... I don’t know where to stop. It was a glorious match.
United have ended Arsenal’s long winning run at the Emirates and move to within five points of Manchester City, who have a tricky match at home to West Ham tomorrow. Thanks for your company, sorry I didn’t get much chance to look at the emails. Night!
7.21pm GMT
90+3 min Marcus Rashford replaces Ashley Young, who has had a fine game.
7.21pm GMT
90+2 min Ozil’s volleyed cross is spanked into orbit by Ramsey, 10 yards from goal. It was a tricky chance on the turn and he got under it.
7.19pm GMT
90+1 min Five minutes of added time.
7.18pm GMT
90 min Arsenal have another penalty when Smalling slides through Lacazette. There was less in that and Andre Marriner wasn’t interested.
7.17pm GMT
89 min Sanchez and Herrera are booked for a physical exchange of unpleasantries.
7.17pm GMT
88 min Welbeck goes over after a challenge in the area from Darmian. That was a clear foul and should have been a penalty. Welbeck didn’t help himself by getting straight to his feet. I think the referee thought Welbeck slipped, but replays confirmed there was clear contact as he turned back inside Darmian on the right of the area.
7.16pm GMT
87 min Lukaku bursts past the last man Koscielny, who drags him down and is booked. The distance from goal - 45 yards - saved Koscielny from a red card, though Mourinho is furious. I think it was the right decision.
7.14pm GMT
84 min Ramsey’s cross from a narrow position is headed over by Welbeck. It wasn’t much of a chance. United, down to 10 men, look more comfortable defensively than at any stage in the match. I suppose it helps the defenders know they have an utter genius behind them. I’ve never seen a goalkeeper with better reflexes, and boy have I seen some goalkeepers.
7.12pm GMT
83 min Welbeck’s deflected long-range shot is tipped over by De Gea, a comfortable save. Arsenal haven’t created much in the last 20 minutes. There’s an argument they have too many cooks - Lacazette, Giroud, Sanchez, Welbeck, Ozil, Iwobi, Henry, Bergkamp, Groves, Hayes, Diawara.
7.10pm GMT
82 min Arsene Wenger is complaining, presumably about timewasting, to the fourth official. This will be a sore one for him if he loses again to Mourinho, especially as his team have played some glorious attacking football.
7.09pm GMT
81 min United should get Rashford on for the lone midfielder/attacker Lukaku, who looks shattered. They can’t get out at all. I think this will end 3-3 you know.
7.07pm GMT
80 min We have exclusive highlights of the first 80 minutes of this match.
7.06pm GMT
78 min Tacticswatch: Arsenal are playing 2-0-8, United have gone for an 8-0-1.
7.05pm GMT
77 min Arsenal bring on another forward, Olivier Giroud, in place of Kolasinac.
7.04pm GMT
76 min Matteo Darmian replaces Jesse Lingard.
7.03pm GMT
75 min That means Pogba will miss the Manchester City game.
7.03pm GMT
74 min Paul Pogba lunges at Bellerin and gets a straight red card! Pogba applauds sarcastically but he shouldn’t argue - he put his studs on the ball and then followed through onto Bellerin’s calf. I’m not certain there was malicious intent but his studs went over the ball and that usually means trouble. That said, this MBM is so frenetic that I haven’t had chance to look at it properly, so for all I know he may have set about Bellerin with a crowbar.
7.01pm GMT
73 min De Gea hasn’t made a save for seven minutes. Wenger out!
7.00pm GMT
72 min Bellerin is booked for a dismal tackle on Young.
6.59pm GMT
71 min “Regardless of the result, I’d say this is the best Arsenal have played in around ten years,” says Andrew Hurley. I know what you mean, certainly going forward. Their defending has been pretty shoddy though.
6.58pm GMT
70 min Arsenal make a change, with Danny Welbeck replacing Granit Xhaka. Arsenal’s formation is now a vague 4-1-5.
6.57pm GMT
68 min “It’s only fair to point out how brilliantly officiated this game has been,” says Phil Harrison. “So rarely gets said in reference to great games.”
Yes, good point. It has really flowed and that’s in part down to the referee.
6.55pm GMT
67 min United make a defensive substitution: Ander Herrera replaces Anthony Martial, who had a quiet second half after being the best player in the history of football before half-time.
6.54pm GMT
66 min Sanchez’s stinging long-range shot is pushed away by De Gea, diving to his right. I can’t keep up with this. De Gea has made enough saves for two or three months.
6.54pm GMT
The move started when Matic played the ball up to Lukaku on the halfway line. He fed it to Lingard, who surged into space and played the ball to Pogba on the right. He moved into the area and danced elegantly around Koscielny, who commited himself unnecessarily, before passing the ball across the face of goal for Lingard to tap into an open net. It was another clinical break from United, though Arsenal’s defending was again less hope.
6.51pm GMT
United sting Arsenal again on the break!
6.50pm GMT
62 min This game has been so breathlessly end-to-end that it may have introduced the concept of the counter-counter-counter attack.
6.49pm GMT
61 min The BT Sport chaps, Glenn Hoddle and Steve McManaman, reckon Ramsey miscontrolled the ball for Lacazette’s goal. I suspect they’re right. It’s a shame because it would have been an ingenious, counter-intuitive touch.
6.48pm GMT
60 min Matic has a clash of heads with Koscielny, which gives United a bit of a breather.
6.46pm GMT
58 min Rojo is ooked for manhandling Sanchez. The United defenders cannot get a moment’s peace.
6.45pm GMT
56 min David De Gea makes a sensational double save to deny Lacazette and Sanchez. The first was a brilliant, sharp stop as he plunged to his right, and although he couldn’t get to his feet for the rebound he thrust out his right foot to block Sanchez’s close-range follow-up. De Gea is a genius in any language. The first save was so good.
6.43pm GMT
55 min Both teams have parked the bus - but they’ve done so at the wrong end. The match has been so open from the first minute.
6.41pm GMT
53 min The game lurches to the other end, where Iwobi drills a low shot that is pushed away by the diving De Gea.
6.41pm GMT
52 min Lingard hits the post! This game is turning into an all-time classic. He was put through on goal and hit a shot that was saved by the outstretched right arm of Cech. The ball looped behind him and bounced up onto the far post before Martial’s close-range follow-up hit the back of Monreal on the line.
6.39pm GMT
Sanchez, on the edge of the area, clipped an excellent pass over a number of defenders to meet Ramsey’s late run. He was clear on De Gea but cushioned the ball backwards to Lacazette, who slammed it into the net. I think Ramsey meant it, and if he did it was a remarkable touch because he was six yards from goal. He may just have miscontrolled it.
6.37pm GMT
It’s on!
6.37pm GMT
48 min The second half has started as the first ended, with Arsenal on the attack. United have been unusually ragged defensively, although, as Andrew Hurley points out, much of that is down to Arsenal’s tempo.
6.34pm GMT
47 min “Hugely enjoying this even though I don’t know what I want the result to be,” says Ian Copestake. “Never mind tactics and entertainment and that, I probably think this match is about me.”
6.34pm GMT
46 min Peep peep! United begin the second half. They may well need another goal to win this game.
6.32pm GMT
Half-time Kant
“Charles Antaki’s email inspires a few philosophical comparisons,” says Klaus Yuri Møller-Arentoft. “Sunderland are 7 years into re-enacting Kant’s Critique of Judgement. One of the earliest Bielsistas was Hannah Arendt with The Human Condition. Liverpool’s Premier League era is best described in Nietzsche’s essay On the Advantage and Disadvantage of History for Life.”
6.20pm GMT
“Martial best player on the pitch?” sniffs Andrew Hurley. “Sorry, but you need to leave your United hat off. It’s all Arsenal, who have been brilliant since ten minutes.”
I don’t have a United hat. I just have a football hat. I just want football to be winner - and so far it has been!!
6.19pm GMT
That was absolutely brilliant entertainment. A clinical United punished two bad defensive errors early on and were a constant threat on the break, yet for most of the half they were pummelled by Arsenal. This could be any score. I don’t mean at the end of the game, it could be any score now. See you in 10 minutes for the second half.
6.17pm GMT
45+2 min It’s mayhem in the United area! De Gea makes a sensational reflex save to stop Lukaku scoring an own goal. That leads to an almighty scrum that seems to go on forever until Lacazette’s shot is blocked by a defender.
6.14pm GMT
44 min Bellerin hits a fierce rising drive from 25 yards that is pushed away dramatically by De Gea, diving to his right. Moments later, Kolasinac smacks a bouncing shot towards the near post that is again palmed away by the sprawling De Gea.
6.13pm GMT
43 min Martial, the best player on the pitch in this half,. beats Xhaka with ease and teases a dangerous deep cross towards Lukaku. Monreal gets in front of him to head clear.
6.12pm GMT
42 min A loose ball breaks for Ramsey, who smacks a low shot that is brilliantly blocked by the stretching Matic. That looked a certain goal. This is such an entertaining match. Arsenal could easily be 4-2 up or 4-0 down.
6.12pm GMT
41 min Lacazette smashes the ball at Sanchez, who does brilliantly to chest it back towards Lacazette. He chests it into the area and is denied by Lingard.
6.06pm GMT
36 min Lacazette picks out a good pass for Ozil, whose first-time half-volley from the edge of the box is too close to De Gea.
6.05pm GMT
33 min This is great fun. United break through Pogba, who dances down the right and crosses low towards Lukaku. Kolasinac, on the stretch, diverts it towards his own goal and Cech saves to his right.
6.04pm GMT
32 min Arsenal hit the bar and post in the same attack! A ball from the left deflected nicely to Lacazette, who danced across the six-yard line and hit a low shot that was pushed into the ground by the sprawling De Gea. It bounced up onto crossbar and eventually rebounded to Xhaka, whose curling shot from 12 yards clipped the outside of the post.
6.01pm GMT
30 min Ozil coaxes it gently over the wall, and Young runs back from behind the wall to head it clear. De Gea probably had it covered anyway but it was good defending from Young.
5.59pm GMT
29 min Sanchez is fouled just outside the area by Rojo, who might have been booked. The free-kick is to the right of centre, which favours the left-footed Ozil...
5.58pm GMT
28 min Insight department: the next goal is a very big goal.
5.57pm GMT
26 min “Boethius’ only surviving work is The Consolations of Philosophy,” says Charles Antaki. “Presumably a very early Arsenal fan.”
5.53pm GMT
22 min Arsenal have responded pretty well to the shock of going 2-0 down and look pretty threatening going forward. Ramsey’s long-range shot is deflected onto the roof of the net by Lacazette, who was wrongly given offside.
5.51pm GMT
20 min Arsenal almost score from the corner. It wasn’t cleared properly and Xhaka headed the ball down into the six-yard box. Lacazette got the wrong side of Rojo and stretched to make contact a few yards from goal. The ball hit De Gea’s leg, rebounded off Lacazette and drifted just wide of the post.
5.50pm GMT
19 min Another dangerous United break. Valencia surges down the right and crosses deep to Young, who seems to take the ball down with his arm but gets away with it. No matter, because his shot is blocked. Arsenal launch a counter-counter-attack, which leads to a bit of a scramble in the area before Smalling thighs the ball behind for a corner.
5.48pm GMT
17 min United, with two up front in Lukaku and Martial, look so dangerous on the counter-attack. Lukaku roasts Ramsey on the right and hits a deep cross towards Martial that is headed away by Bellerin.
5.45pm GMT
15 min Arsenal make their change, with Alex Iwobi replacing Mustafi. That means a switch to 4-2-3-1. As clinical as both United’s goals have been, Arsenal were badly at fault for both.
5.42pm GMT
12 min That was Mustafi’s last touch of the game; he’s limping off.
5.42pm GMT
It stemmed from another Arsenal mistake. The last man Mustafi was harried by Lingard, with the ball running to Lukaku 35 yards from goal. He played a cute reverse pass into the area for Martial, who produced a superb, rubber-ankled flick round the corner that allowed Lingard to run clear and clip a first-time shot in off the far post. The touch from Martial in a phonebox-sized space was quite delicious.
5.40pm GMT
Oh my, this is a superb goal.
5.38pm GMT
8 min Sanchez earns a free-kick 25 yards from goal after slight contact from Smalling. The free-kick is to the left of centre, and Sanchez whacks it into the wall.
5.37pm GMT
7 min “A clip has just been shown of Mourinho answering a question about Matic,” says Charles Antaki. “For all I know the answer was wholly true. But Mourinho has managed the seemingly impossible of solving the ancient Greek paradox of The Liar - namely that whatever he says, he must be disbelieved, even if he confesses to being a liar.”
5.36pm GMT
5 min That was a bad mistake from Koscielny, bringing to mind that Highbury classic in 1999-2000 when both Roy Keane’s goals came from Arsenal players losing the ball in their own third.
5.35pm GMT
Koscielny, 30 yards from his own goal, played a loose square pass towards Kolasinac that was stolen by Valencia. He played the ball into Pogba, who drew defenders towards him on the edge of the box and poked it back to Valencia. As Monreal came across, Valencia took a touch and rifled a low shot that nutmegged both Monreal and the keeper Cech.
5.34pm GMT
It’s there!
5.33pm GMT
3 min Victor Lindelof is on the right of United’s back three, which puts him up against Alexis Sanchez. You’d expect Arsenal to find Sanchez at every opportunity.
5.32pm GMT
2 min Lingard eases the ball out to Young, whose driven cross is put behind for a corner by Koscielny. Young’s corner skims off the head of Pogba, under pressure from Koscielny, and drifts well wide of the far post.
5.30pm GMT
1 min Peep peep! Arsenal, in red and white, kick off. United are in black.
5.23pm GMT
Pre-match pluggery
Most football autobiographies are largely tedious, because the players have been media trained to within an inch of their personality. Jens Lehmann didn’t get the memo about media training.
Episode 7 is here on @acast join Lee, Rob and @FootballCliches as we talk the backpass law, an underrated Arsenal cup win, the great Barry vs Motty debate and to select our first ever Journeyman Of The Week (get your nominations in) https://t.co/VTtySSNsL8
5.22pm GMT
United have a point to prove tonight. These are their results away to the Big Six under Jose Mourinho: 0-0, 0-4, 0-1, 0-0, 0-2, 1-2, 0-0, 0-1
5.12pm GMT
It’s been a lively afternoon in the Premier League, with Liverpool winning 5-1 at Brighton and West Brom drawing 0-0 with Crystal Palace. You can read all about it here.
4.44pm GMT
Some pre-match reading
Related: Have Arsenal finally found a cure for the counterattack? | Jacob Steinberg
4.33pm GMT
Alexandre Lacazette starts, despite being ruled out of this game on Thursday. So does Nemanja Matic, though Jose Mourinho says he isn’t fully fit.
Arsenal (3-4-2-1) Cech; Koscielny, Mustafi, Monreal; Bellerin, Xhaka, Ramsey, Kolasinac; Ozil, Sanchez; Lacazette.
Substitutes: Ospina, Mertesacker, Coquelin, Iwobi, Wilshere, Giroud, Welbeck.
1.35pm GMT
Arsenal v Manchester United has been the fixture of the Premier League era. It’s in a High Flying Birds phase at the moment – the last huge fixture between the teams was probably the Champions League semi-final eight years ago – but it will always be Arsenal v Manchester United, and it will always have extra edge when Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho are the managers.
This is a big day in the north of London – particularly for United, who surely need to win and stay within eight points of Manchester City ahead of next weekend’s meeting. Arsenal’s chance of winning the title has probably gone, yet the Emirates is a pretty happy place just now. They have played some thrilling football this season, particularly at home, and took emphatic care of Spurs two weeks ago. Nothing can top that, but a win over United – and Mourinho - would come pretty close.
Continue reading...Chelsea 3-1 Newcastle United: Premier League – as it happened
The brilliant Eden Hazard scored twice as an impressive Chelsea came from behind to beat Newcastle comfortably at Stamford Bridge
2.40pm GMT
Related: Chelsea’s Eden Hazard puts paid to Newcastle hopes of a shock
2.20pm GMT
Peep peep! That was a comfortable win for Chelsea, with Dwight Gayle’s early goal giving them a necessary alarm call. After that they were superb, particularly the attacking trio of Fabregas, Hazard and Morata. Victor Moses also had a fine game at right wing-back.
There are some tasty 3pm fixtures, and you can follow them with Barry Glendenning. Thanks for your company, bye!
Related: Brighton v Liverpool, Watford v Tottenham Hotspur and more – live!
2.17pm GMT
90 min Three minutes.
2.17pm GMT
89 min The game is petering out. Newcastle win a couple of corners, just for the road. Clark heads wide from near the penalty spot.
2.15pm GMT
88 min “Rob,” says Andrew Benton. “Your world might have “disappeared so far up its own arch that it’s almost impossible to tell”, but I would think for many OBO readers the world is reasonably tickety-boo, all things considered. Do cheer up, please, it is only a game of football, after all.”
Ah, sorry Andrew, I think you may have clicked the wrong link. We offer a Happy MBM service as well.
2.11pm GMT
85 min Another Newcastle change: Merino off, Yedlin on.
2.11pm GMT
84 min After some fleet-footed work on the edge of the area from Morata, Alonso’s deflected cross-shot is palmed away by Darlow.
2.10pm GMT
84 min “Presumably, if Merino continues to play so well for Newcastle (65 min), fans will be flocking to see them from now on?” says Paul Gander. “Sorry, couldn’t resist.”
Don’t apologise to me, apologise to yourself.
2.09pm GMT
82 min It’s been an emphatic win for Chelsea. Newcastle have worked hard but this was always going to be a tough afternoon for them.
2.07pm GMT
80 min Another Chelsea change: Cahill on, Christensen off.
2.05pm GMT
78 min A double change for Chelsea: Bakayoko and Willian replaces Hazard and Fabregas, who were both superb.
2.03pm GMT
76 min Hazard is denied a hat-trick by a good save from Darlow. He was played in by Morata and tried again to dink the ball over the keeper, this time with his left foot. Darlow stood up and was able to beat the shot away.
2.02pm GMT
75 min Jonjo Shelvey replaces Diame for Newcastle.
2.01pm GMT
Hazard dinks a soft Panenka to his left, with Darlow diving the other way. Lovely stuff.
2.00pm GMT
Fabregas plays yet another beautiful through pass to Moses, who gets to the ball fractionally before Ritchie and is fouled. It’s a clear penalty.
2.00pm GMT
72 min After a few slightly uncomfortable minutes, Chelsea are again in total control.
1.58pm GMT
71 min “I am sitting in a coaching class right now learning about computer networks,” boasts Shah Abdul Ghani. “And being an ardent Chelsea supporter I’m obviously following the match on my phone. It seems like Newcastle are so bad that Rafa Benitez shouldn’t mind swapping the stadium for my classroom right now. It isn’t going to affect the game anyway and I’ll have a bit more inclination to listen to the class then.”
1.58pm GMT
70 min Hazard runs at the defence and plays a short square pass to Drinkwater, who stabs an ingenious return pass with the outside of his right foot. That puts Hazard through on goal but as the ball kicks up he can’t control his shot and the ball dribbles wide. It was a gorgeous pass from Drinkwater,.
1.54pm GMT
67 min Azpilicueta clips in a cross from a narrow position that is headed towards goal by Moses, lurking around the penalty spot. Darlow plunges to his right to make a comfortable save.
1.52pm GMT
65 min Merino has been good on the ball for Newcastle, particularly in the second half. There’s a calm elegance to his play.
1.50pm GMT
63 min This is Newcastle’s best spell since they went ahead early on. That isn’t saying much, in truth, but there has been a slight change in the mood of the match.
1.49pm GMT
62 min “As a Chelsea fan I was worried when Abramovich was firing our managers so fast it was only a matter of time before he’d have to turn to Benítez one day,” says Vaclav Smerda. “Sure enough he did after Di Matteo. Benítez was always a wrong choice for Chelsea. Simply because he was at Liverpool when we kept meeting them in the Champions League and those were tough games. Benítez and Liverpool where great opponents and it was weird seeing him at Chelsea. Anyway, I have respect for what he did over the six months. The abuse he is getting from some Chelsea fans is unnecessary and wrong.”
1.48pm GMT
61 min That’s better from Newcastle, who enjoy a sustained attack before Perez drills a low shot well wide from 25 yards. That’s Perez’s last touch; he has been replaced by Isaac Hayden.
1.48pm GMT
60 min “I’m not anything close to a Chelsea fan but it seems to me Hazard gets fouled more than any other player,” says JR in Illinois. “And not just fouled a little more but like three times more. Guys just chase him around and when they can get close enough they just take hacks at him. His legs must be like hamburger.”
The best thing is that half the time he either evades the hacks or ignores them. His balance is wonderful. It reminds me of that famous George Best goal against Chelsea, when he stayed on his feet despite being run over by Chopper Harris.
1.46pm GMT
58 min “Rafa missed his Dad’s funeral so he could manage a Liverpool game,” says Nick Smith. “Genuine football man and down to earth. Also, people who dislike him are generally pillocks (Mourinho, ‘big’ Sam, Chelsea fans etc).”
Nick’s email address is available for a small fee.
1.45pm GMT
57 min Fabregas’s long pass is headed down by Morata to Hazard, who does absurdly well to maintain control despite being off balance and surrounded by defenders. Eventually he stumbles and the ball runs through to Darlow. Newcastle were appealing for a handball against him as well, not that it matters now.
1.43pm GMT
56 min Hazard’s long-range shot takes a big deflection and drifts just wide of the near post. Darlow had already dived in the other direction.
1.42pm GMT
53 min It feels like a matter of time until Chelsea get a third. Newcastle are scrapping hard but there’s an unsustainable desperation to their defending.
1.36pm GMT
49 min “I agree with JR from Illinois (13:18 update) - no push and no foul from Morata,” says Joe in Milan. “In fact, the slow-motion replays on Sky Italia show that Mbemba stumbled as he moved to anticipate the cross. Morata reached out to help steady his opponent but there was only so much he could do - such a good bloke that Morata is, truly so. Paolo Di Canio in the Sky Italia studio has no issues with Morata’s goal, hence neither should anyone else.”
I have no idea whether people are being sarcastic any more. The world has disappeared so far up its own arch that it’s almost impossible to tell.
1.35pm GMT
47 min Christensen strides forward elegantly from the back and plays a fine through pass to Moses, who should be flagged offside but isn’t. He slips a low ball into the six-yard area that is crucially cleared by Mbemba, who does well to get in front of Morata.
1.32pm GMT
46 min Peep peep! Chelsea begin the second half.
1.30pm GMT
More half-time chit-chat
“The Chelsea fans who are barracking Benítez are beyond pathetic,” says Joseph Sampson. “In the six months he spent at Stamford Bridge, he completely turned our season around, qualifying for the Champions’ League and winning the Europa League in the process. The abuse originated as a show of loyalty to Mourinho, who is now similarly abused by the same Chelsea fans, possibly as a warped expression of loyalty to Rafa?”
1.18pm GMT
“I’ll help you see Morata’s goal properly,” says JR in Illinois. “There was no push and no foul. His light touching of Mbemba’s back was no cause for Mbemba to collapse to the ground. Also, but unrelated, Dwight Gayle resembles Jon Stewart from the Daily Show. Really. Have a look.”
1.17pm GMT
Half-time reading
Related: Brazil regain favourite status but it feels good just to be at the World Cup | Amy Lawrence
1.17pm GMT
Peep peep! Newcastle started superbly, only to make the mistake of taking the lead. That stirred Chelsea, who played some great stuff and took control of the game through goals from Eden Hazard and Alvaro Morata. See you in 10 minutes for the second half.
1.16pm GMT
45+1 min Clark is booked for a cynical hack at Hazard.
1.15pm GMT
44 min A Newcastle free-kick is half cleared to Lejeune, who contorts his body to hit a cracking volley that is deflected behind by Alonso. Nothing comes of the corner.
1.12pm GMT
42 min Newcastle are hanging on to a 2-1 deficit. They really need half-time.
1.07pm GMT
38 min Drinkwater slashes a decent effort wide of the far post from 25 yards. Darlow had it covered.
1.07pm GMT
36 min The ball runs to Rafa Benitez, who slices it back into play to chants of “You fat bastard!” from the Chelsea fans.
1.05pm GMT
35 min Morata put hands on Mbemba just before the goal, which some referees might have deemed a foul. I can see both sides!
1.04pm GMT
34 min Chelsea started slowly but since going behind they have been pretty devastating, certainly in attack.
1.03pm GMT
Alvaro Morata scores yet another header. Moses, on the right, smashed a rising cross that beat everyone at the near post and left Morata with a simple header from four yards.
1.01pm GMT
31 min Moses runs at Ritchie and wins a corner, Chelsea’s fifth of the match. Nothing happens.
12.58pm GMT
28 min Newcastle can’t get out. They may eventually reflect that, as at Old Trafford, the worst thing they did was score an early goal.
12.56pm GMT
26 min A promising Chelsea attack ends with Fabregas is bulldozed to the floor by the referee Kevin Friend. Oh dear. It’s all Chelsea now, with Morata and Hazard full of waspish menace. They are so good to watch.
12.52pm GMT
The pressure was too much for Newcastle. Azpilicueta’s superb cross towards Morata was intercepted at the near post by the stretching Lejeune. The loose ball came to Hazard, who slammed it into the ground and over Darlow.
12.51pm GMT
20 min Christiansen hits the post! Chelsea have woken up now. A right-wing corner was worked short and played infield to Kante, who clipped a flat cross into the area. Christiansen twisted his neck to loop an excellent curling header onto the post from 15 yards.
12.49pm GMT
19 min Rudiger wafts a long pass towards Morata in the area. He controls it with his back to goal before being bumped over by Darlow, who is pretty lucky not to concede a penalty. It was a clumsy, unusual attempt to get the ball from Darlow, and maybe that helped him get away with it.
12.48pm GMT
17 min Darlow makes an excellent save. Fabregas’s superb long pass was controlled exquisitely by Hazard, who flicked the ball towards goal with his second touch. It hit the left hand of Darlow, who spread both arms wide as he flew from goal.
12.43pm GMT
Chelsea have looked jittery at the back since the start and now they are behind. The ball ricocheted around on the edge of the box before Alonso poked it back towards his goalkeeper. Murphy got there first and tried to go round Courtois, who plunged to his left to push the ball away from goal. But it fell perfectly for Gayle to slide into an empty net.
12.42pm GMT
This has been coming.
12.41pm GMT
11 min “Benitez stands out for me in the Premiership in that he isn’t your standard football manager - he’s a quiet achiever who keeps his own counsel, and who you could see managing a firm of lawyers or a council library just as well as a football team,” says Andrew Benton. “I would bet the players like him, too. What more could you want?”
I suspect not everybody would agree with that profile of him.
12.40pm GMT
10 min A long pass is chested down by Hazard to Morata, who thrashes a half-volley over the bar from a ludicrous angle on the right side of the box. That was a decent effort, though Darlow had it covered.
12.39pm GMT
9 min It’s been a pretty sluggish start from Chelsea, all things considered. The dawdling Azpilicueta is robbed by Perez, who lumbers into the box and drags the ball back to Merino. His sidefooted curler from 20 yards is straight at Courtois.
12.38pm GMT
8 min “Ah Rob,” says Bruce Jackson. “The days of the crunching tackle. When you’d take off your shinpads after a game, and still be able to make out the mark of each individual stud in your leg. Where have those days gone?”
To Hackney Marshes?
12.36pm GMT
6 min Chelsea’s first good move involves Hazard, Fabregas and finally Drinkwater, whose cutback from the left of the box is desperately cleared by the stretching Clark. At least I think it was him; the Newcastle shirt numbers are not exactly TV-friendly.
12.35pm GMT
5 min “So Benitez has decided to combat the non-stop running and industry of Kante and Drinkwater with...Diame,” sniffs Shaun Wilkinson. “Any ideas what the thinking behind that could be? A two-man midfield with Diame was just strolled through by Watford, so what are Chelsea going to do with this Newcastle team? I am going to hide behind the sofa.”
I miss Jonjo Shelvey. When I saw the Newcastle team, that was my dominant emotion.
12.33pm GMT
4 min It’s been a confident, aggressive start from Newcastle, with the first few minutes taking place almost exclusively in Chelsea’s half. No chances though.
12.30pm GMT
1 min Peep peep! Newcastle start the match, kicking from left to right on my television screen. They are in black-and-white stripes; Chelsea are in blue.
12.28pm GMT
The players are in the tunnel, the mascots are in the tunnel. It’s on!
12.25pm GMT
A pre-match plug
Episode 7 is here on @acast join Lee, Rob and @FootballCliches as we talk the backpass law, an underrated Arsenal cup win, the great Barry vs Motty debate and to select our first ever Journeyman Of The Week (get your nominations in) https://t.co/VTtySSNsL8
12.05pm GMT
If this doesn’t get you in the mood for a festival of football, nothing will
12 years to the day since Brentford and Scunthorpe played out the most your Dad sequence of events ever to take place on a professional football pitch. 9 crunching tackles in 17 seconds. pic.twitter.com/qYx6R2B6v4
11.55am GMT
A bit of pre-match reading
Related: Premier League: 10 things to look out for this weekend
Related: Rafael Benítez says dissenters and fake news forced him out at Chelsea
11.33am GMT
Chelsea (3-5-1-1) Courtois; Azpilicueta, Christensen, Rudiger; Moses, Fabregas, Kante, Drinkwater, Alonso; Hazard; Morata.
Substitutes: Caballero, Zappacosta, Cahill, Bakayoko, Willian, Pedro, Batshuayi.
Newcastle (3-4-2-1) Darlow; Mbemba, Lejeune, Clark; Manquillo, Diame, Merino, Ritchie; Murphy, Perez; Gayle.
Substitutes: Elliot, Yedlin, Shelvey, Hayden, Joselu, Mitrovic, Aarons.
1.27pm GMT
Hello! Right, that’s enough of the pleasantries; let’s proceed to some rugged soccer chat. For a team who have reportedly spent most of the season in crisis, Chelsea are doing pretty well. They are through to the last 16 of the Champions League and are the form team in the Premier League (apart from Manchester City, who don’t count because they’re different).
Although Chelsea are 11 points behind City, they are in a decent position to close the gap should City show anything resembling human frailty against Manchester United and Spurs in the next couple of weeks. Chelsea, who have taken 16 points from their last six games, have a lot of exceedingly winnable fixtures between now and the end of February, including today’s match at home to Newcastle.
Continue reading...November 27, 2017
Ashes first Test talking points: Australia’s big guns take control by stealth | Rob Smyth
Steve Smith and David Warner outsmarted England’s attack in the first Test, the tourists will need clear heads and is Alastair Cook merely out of form?
Stuart Broad said before the series that England would play on the egos of the Australia batsmen by denying boundaries. But the egos never landed in Brisbane. The exaggerated patience of Steve Smith, in the first innings, and David Warner, against the second new ball, symbolised an Australia performance that had an unexpected brain:brawn ratio. With the exception of two short spells of ferocious pace bowling, they took control of the match through stealth rather than aggression. They did not just outplay England; they outsmarted them too. They are far more flexible than many realised, and do not be surprised if they show that again by selecting the uncapped swing bowler Chadd Sayers ahead of Pat Cummins in Adelaide.
Related: Sideways look of Adelaide presents hope to England despite Gabba beating | Vic Marks
Related: England suffer crushing 10-wicket defeat by Australia in first Ashes Test
Related: Jonny Bairstow's alleged head-butt 'a bit weird', says Cameron Bancroft
Continue reading...November 22, 2017
Ashes first Test dos and don’ts: what England can learn from Gabba in 1986-87 | Rob Smyth
The last one-off Ashes Test took place in 1887-88, but only if you’re talking literally. The opening match of a long series often sets such a decisive tone – particularly in Australia - that it could often be described as the deciding first Test. Most people give Joe Root’s England two chances in the upcoming series, and slim is unavailable because of an ongoing police investigation. But in the sprawling history of Test cricket there is always a precedent to inspire hope. In this case it’s the first Test at the Gabba in 1986-87, when an England team given approximately 0.00% chance won so emphatically that all the pre-series doom was transferred to Australia.
There are plenty of parallels between then and now, and a couple of reminders that sometimes the past is another planet, never mind a foreign country. The story of the game – “can’t bat, can’t bowl, can’t field” – has been told a gazillion times, so here’s an attempt to disguise brazen recycling: it’s our series of England First Test Dos and Don’ts!
Related: Australia v England, Ashes 2017-18: Guardian writers’ predictions
Related: Why Chris Woakes can be England’s danger man in the Ashes
Related: England squad’s novice look masks depth of experience playing in Australia | Andy Bull
Continue reading...November 19, 2017
'Let him die of thirst': Douglas Jardine and the long history of Ashes sledging
In an extract from his book of Ashes quotations, Rob Smyth tells how it is sometimes Australian spectators who deliver the hardest lines to England sides
“Don’t give the bastard a drink. Let him die of thirst.”
Douglas Jardine’s mission was almost complete. England were about to complete a crushing series victory over Australia with a win in the fifth Test at Sydney in the famous Bodyline series of 1932-33. Jardine was at the crease, savouring the moment, when play stopped for a drinks break. The chivalrous Australian captain Bill Woodfull was about to hand Jardine some water when a lone voice suggested that it might be better to let his opposite number’s dehydration become terminal. Jardine, who had spent the entire series disparaging all things Australian, quietly enjoyed that particular bit of barracking. He later called it “one of the few humorous remarks which we were privileged to hear on this tour”.
Jardine is loathed more than any German who ever fought in any war
Related: Ashes 2017-18: player-by-player guide to the Australia squad
Continue reading...November 4, 2017
West Ham United 1-4 Liverpool: Premier League – as it happened
7.21pm GMT
Peep peep! That was a hideous 90 minutes for West Ham, who were routinely shredded on the counter-attack by an excellent Liverpool attack. It could have been worse than 4-1, and it wouldn’t be a surprise if Slaven Bilic lost his job during the international break. West Ham’s morale is at rock bottom. Thanks for your company, goodnight!
7.19pm GMT
90 min Lanzini is booked for kicking the ball away. West Ham look totally demoralised.
7.17pm GMT
88 min Liverpool break three on three, led by Solanke. He should play in Salah or Mane but goes for goal and drags wide from 25 yards.
7.15pm GMT
87 min A double change for Liverpool: Oxlade-Chamberlain and Firmino, who have had fine games, are replaced by Lovren and Solanke.
7.15pm GMT
86 min Another missed chance for Liverpool, with Firmino smashing just over the bar from the left side of the box. He deserves a goal.
7.14pm GMT
86 min Milner, in a scandalous amount of space, shoots just wide from the edge of the box. Liverpool could have scored eight tonight.
7.12pm GMT
84 min Oxlade-Chamberlain’s shot is blocked by Reid. It’s a grim score for West Ham but it could be worse.
7.11pm GMT
83 min I fear this might be it for Slaven Bilic. It’s been a desperate performance from West Ham.
7.09pm GMT
81 min Oxlade-Chamberlain’s superb cut-back finds Salah, who tries to place a curler into the corner and complete a hat-trick. Hart springs across his line to make a comfortable save.
7.08pm GMT
78 min This win moves Liverpool up to sixth, level on points with Chelsea and Arsenal in fourth and fifth.
7.05pm GMT
77 min Sadio Mane, who has been excellent on his return, is replaced by James Milner.
7.04pm GMT
Game over. Mane danced past two defenders and chipped a pass to the unmarked Salah on the left of the box. He had time to take the ball down, consider the meaning of life and hammer an excellent low shot into the far corner. Hart had no chance.
7.00pm GMT
72 min West Ham make their last change, with Diafra Sakho replacing Chicharito.
6.59pm GMT
71 min Liverpool have restored some order after a difficult spell.
6.58pm GMT
69 min Arnautovic teases a cross towards Hernandez, who is off balance and backheads the ball over the bar. He was pushed by Moreno., though whether it was enough for a penalty I don’t know. At the other end, the superb Firmino dances through the defence only to drag his shot across goal and wide. He should have scored. That finish aside, Firmino has been so good tonight.
6.56pm GMT
68 min A good move from Liverpool. Oxlade-Chamberlain works the ball into Firmino, who backheels it out to Mane. He blasts high and wide from a tight angle.
6.55pm GMT
66 min “So who wants to tell Ewan Atkinson that’s it’s quite difficult to MBM a match that doesn’t happen until tomorrow?” says Phil Sawyer. “Although if you’re going to give a it a go, I hear Arsenal are 5-0 up right now.”
6.53pm GMT
64 min West Ham have been much better since Lanzini scored, despite the desperate disappointment of conceding the third goal. I didn’t really do justice to how good Lanzini’s goal was, one of those quietly classy goals that only a proper technician can score.
6.51pm GMT
63 min “Bringing down an opposition player is against the rules, and punishable by a yellow card and free kick against the player committing the foul,” says Matt Dony. “Simulation is against the rules, and punishable by a yellow card and a free kick against. There is an equivalency. In both cases, some players ‘get away with it’, either by the referee determining that no foul was committed, or by being fooled by the dive. The differences are, one is trying to gain a defensive advantage whereas the other is an offensive tactic, and one involves outright deception, bringing sportsmanship into it. Suarez’ handball on the line was unsporting. It denied the other team a win that they had engineered within the rules of the game. He was punished, and sent off. But the penalty was missed, so he ‘got away with it.’ I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done it. That’s never been the point. It just doesn’t seem logical that one type of cheating provoked a pat on the back, and another provoked moral outrage.”
6.50pm GMT
62 min Lanzini’s inswinging free-kick is headed over at the near post by Chicharito. It wasn’t much of a chance.
6.49pm GMT
61 min Another West Ham change: Marko Arnautovic replaces Mark Noble.
6.49pm GMT
60 min More fun and games with Mignolet, who has to race from his line to win a block tackle with Lanzini. This game is so open at both ends.
6.47pm GMT
59 min Lanzini misses a great chance to make it 3-2! Carroll played him in with a short angled pass, and Lanzini stretched to crash a shot over the bar with his left foot.
6.45pm GMT
Oh my, this is hideous from West Ham. Liverpool have scored again almost straight from the kick off. Firmino, aided by more weak defending, did really well to tee up Oxlade-Chamberlain, who scored at the second attempt after a good save from Hart.
6.44pm GMT
This is a brilliant goal. Ayew tossed a nothing ball to the far post, where Lanzini backed away from Gomez, pulled the ball down on his chest and, despite being hopelessly off balance, improvised to lift it cleverly over Mignolet.
6.42pm GMT
53 min “Hello, Rob,” says Ewen Atkinson. “You consistently fail to mention that Manchester City have stuck nine goals against these 22 Liverpool and West Ham players, sans reply from any of them. Not even one goal back. We will demolish Arsène’s Arsenal Wenger tomorrow by a similar margin, but still you and yours won’t talk about it. You and colleagues are ignoring a phenomenon unseen in English foopball, so you can shut up with your shutting up about it. City are the only team worth talking about now, so you can stop texting about these 22 no-marks. There’s only one game in town and country, and it’s not this one.”
6.39pm GMT
51 min It’s been a little better from West Ham since half-time, though they still look a bit ragged and desperate.
6.37pm GMT
50 min Here’s Mac Millings. “Regarding Half-Time Entertainment’s Phil Sawyer, what the Fawkes he on about?”
6.37pm GMT
49 min Salah plays a crisp pass back to Mane, who whips a first-time curler miles wide from inside the D.
6.35pm GMT
47 min Kouyate’s corner deflects behind for a corner, the first opportunity to involve Carroll. Lanzini curls it into the area, Matip heads clear and Reid is booked for an inept hack at Mane.
6.33pm GMT
46 min Peep peep! West Ham begin the second half, with Andy Carroll on for Edmilson Fernandes. Go on big lad, roam the green.
6.32pm GMT
More half-time chit-chat
“Evening Rob,” says Simon McMahon. “What I wouldn’t give to be 25 and talented. Though if Klopp’s ever looking for a talentless 45-year-old to provide Bez / Terry McDermott style ‘vibes’, can you give him my number?”
6.32pm GMT
Morality latest “The laws of the game set out what infringements are ‘not allowed’, but also prescribe a consequence to those infringements,” says Joel Pool. “If you decide to deliberately foul an opponent and accept the resulting caution/dismissal/penalty etc, then that is an option available to you within the laws of the game. Sportsmanship is a more nebulous set of rules that are ultimately subjective, and comes down to taste and class. Luis Suarez’s World Cup handball on the goal line, or hacking someone down to stop a certain goal (in exchange for a red card and a penalty which is a likely goal), these are options, however distasteful, and to ignore the existence of these options out of virtue alone is to deny some tools which may be required in extreme situations.”
Whenever a moral dilemma arises, I ask myself one simple question: What Would Richie Aprile Do?
6.18pm GMT
That was a miserable half for West Ham, who are booed off by the home fans. Liverpool scored twice from corners in the space of three minutes, the first a West Ham corner, and were in total control thereafter. See you in 10 minutes for the second half.
6.16pm GMT
45 min There will be two minutes of added West Ham despair.
6.15pm GMT
44 min Oxlade-Chamberlain curls a fine pass over the defence for Salah, who scoots away from Kouyate but overruns the ball with his second touch. That allows Reid to come across and concede a corner.
6.14pm GMT
43 min This has been a hideous performance from West Ham. They started okay, but the moment they went 1-0 down they collapsed. They look like a team having a collective meltdown.
6.11pm GMT
40 min Liverpool have been able to pass the ball around so easily, with almost no pressure on the ball. West Ham look like a team whose morale is through the floor.
6.09pm GMT
38 min “Right,” says Matt Dony. “Indulge me while I climb on my hobby-horse for a while. I have a great respect for Steve McManaman (is there anything more beautiful than his volley against Valencia in the Champions League final?), but he’s suggested Fernandes should have taken down Salah before the first goal. I won’t single him out, ex-pros regularly say things like that, praising ‘professional fouls’ and the like. That’s all well and good, but then don’t get so morally outraged by diving and simulation! Either, cheating is wrong, and the game should be played within the rules; OR, players have to break rules to gain an advantage. It’s one or the other. Just because one has a more clear element of deception should make no difference. They are both examples of cheating. Stop all cheating, or shut up and let the players play however they feel. Thanks for listening. You may now return to the game.”
It’s the same with the spirit of cricket, there are contradictions all over the place. See also: all morality.
6.08pm GMT
37 min Mark Noble is booked for diving. “Are you having a laugh?” he asks the referee Neil Swarbrick. He is not having a laugh.
6.06pm GMT
35 min Ogbonna plays a square pass to Fernandes, who miscontrols it for a throw-in. There are some affronted coupons among the home fans and no mistake.
6.04pm GMT
33 min West Ham are all over the place. It’s almost painful to watch.
6.01pm GMT
30 min This could get extremely messy for West Ham, who look totally demoralised.
5.57pm GMT
26 min It just shows how quickly a football match can slip away. West Ham started pretty well, yet now they are 2-0 down and mentally finished.
5.55pm GMT
It is happening again. The unsighted Noble accidentally diverts a near-post corner towards his own goal, and although Hart makes a fine save the ball falls perfectly for Matip to score from close range.
5.53pm GMT
Lanzini’s corner was headed away to Salah, and the moment he knocked it past the dithering Fernandes to find Mane, West Ham were in big trouble. Liverpool had a three on one attack, with Aaron Cresswell trying to stall them for as long as he could. Mane carried the ball 50 yards, drew Cresswell and played in Salah, who finished calmly past Hart.
5.52pm GMT
A West Ham corner leads to a goal - for Liverpool. It was a beautiful counterattack.
5.50pm GMT
19 min As the BT Sport chaps have pointed out, the tempo of the game is weirdly slow. It’s as if both teams are scared to push forward for fear of being counter-attacked. Whatever the reason, this game is filth.
5.47pm GMT
17 min “Oh such a lovely day,” says Hubert O’Hearn. “The internet refuses to stay connected so I’ve abandoned watching Liverpool. Instead I’m going to read Bloodroot, the incredible new poetry collection by Ireland’s own Annemarie Ni Churreain while keeping an eye on your MBM. Who shall win the battle of brilliant words? The poetess or the sportswriter? I have faith in you Rob. The game’s afoot!”
It’s not actually afoot, is it.
5.46pm GMT
16 min There is a word to describe the first 15 minutes of this match, but I won’t be able to use it until 9pm.
5.46pm GMT
14 min “What are your thoughts on Klopp’s Liverpool, Rob, and the prognosis?” says Bill Hargreaves. “Is his high-octane blend a good recipe for the famous club looking for fresh produce in the trophy cabinet? Will it bear fruit in the Mou/ Poch/Pep era?”
My thoughts are completely unoriginal. I love watching them, they are scintillating in attack when everyone is fint, but they will never win a league with the current defence and squad depth. That said, if I was a) 25 and b) talented, I’d love to play for Klopp.
5.43pm GMT
12 min Chicharito turns Matip 25 yards from goal and is palpably hoofed in the shin. The referee waves play on.
5.40pm GMT
9 min Ayew hits the post! He ran clear onto Lanzini’s deflected through pass, and as the ball bounced up he flicked it towards goal with the outside of his left foot. It beat Mignolet and hit the outside of the near post.
5.37pm GMT
7 min It’s been a very quiet start, that Firmino chance excepted. Nothing to see here.
5.35pm GMT
4 min The formations aren’t quite as advertised. West Ham are playing a 3-4-2-1, and Liverpool’s shape looks like a 4-2-3-1 with Salah behind Firmino.
5.33pm GMT
2 min An early chance for Liverpool. Salah’s free-kick from the left falls nicely for Firmino, whose close-range shot is blocked by the legs of Hart. Good save.
5.31pm GMT
1 min Peep peep! Liverpool get things going. They are in their orange third kit; West Ham are sporting the old claret and blue.
5.28pm GMT
This is the last home game before Remembrance Sunday, so there will be a minute’s silence ahead of the game.
5.25pm GMT
Two groups of grown men are shaking hands, which can only mean one thing: the imminent commencement of a soccer match.
5.24pm GMT
Pre-match plugging
Episode 4 of Nessun Dorma, the 80s and 90s football podcast, is here for your delectation.
5.23pm GMT
“This is going to be a 5-4 draw,” says Ian Copestake. “Something new is going to be created out if this chaos!”
5.12pm GMT
An email! “It’s a really exciting Liverpool line-up,” says Gerrard Catesby. “Fascinated to see Ox make his full Premier League debut, and thrilled at Mane starting.”
Mane is pure gold. Liverpool are a much better team when he and Salah play. Frank Lampard made a good point about Oxlade-Chamberlain just now, about how he should study Kevin De Bruyne and David Silva as examples of wide players who have adapted to and excelled in centre midfield. Lampard is extremely good as a studio pundit.
4.52pm GMT
The 3pm kick-offs are coming to an end, with great results for Brighton and Bournemouth. Barry Glendenning has the latest.
Related: Newcastle v Bournemouth, Swansea v Brighton and FA Cup first round – live!
4.45pm GMT
Pre-match reading
Related: Jürgen Klopp and Slaven Bilic back Dejan Lovren after death threats
4.34pm GMT
West Ham (3-4-2-1) Hart; Reid, Kouyate, Ogbonna; Fernandes, Obiang, Noble, Cresswell; Ayew, Lanzini; Chicharito.
Substitutes: Adrian, Rice, Masuaku, Haksabanovic, Sakho, Arnautovic, Carroll.
Liverpool (4-2-3-1) Mignolet; Gomez, Matip, Klavan, Moreno; Wijnaldum, Can; Oxlade-Chamberlain, Salah, Mane; Firmino.
Substitutes: Karius, Lovren, Alexander-Arnold, Milner, Grujic, Solanke, Sturridge.
12.43pm GMT
Hello. It’s fair to say these teams have wrongs to right in this evening’s match. West Ham’s last home game was the miserable 3-0 defeat against Brighton; Liverpool were walloped 4-1 by Spurs in their last away game. The quality of both attacks, and the erratic nature of both defences, mean this really should be an entertaining teatime experience for one and all. It had better be, because I’m missing Len Goodman’s Partners in Rhyme for this.
Kick off is at 5.30pm.
Continue reading...Stoke City 2-2 Leicester City: Premier League – as it happened
Peter Crouch came off the bench to equalise for the home side in an entertaining, ding-dong game at the bet365 Stadium
2.34pm GMT
Related: Stoke City dig deep to deny Leicester and Puel thanks to Peter Crouch
2.26pm GMT
That was a pretty enjoyable game. Leicester were the smoother team but Stoke showed character to twice come from behind, and Peter Crouch got amongst it to great effect when he came off the bench. A match report should appear here shortly. Thanks for your company, bye!
Related: Newcastle v Bournemouth, Swansea v Brighton and FA Cup first round – live!
2.24pm GMT
Choupo-Moting wins a late corner for Stoke. Leicester thought it should have been a goalkick. This will be the last attack of the game - and it almost leads to a goal! Zouma’s near-post header loops towards goal, and Schmeichel dives dramatically to his right to punch it away!
2.23pm GMT
90+2 min “I think you’re right about Peter Crouch being a good candidate for national treasure - well-known, likeable, good at what he does, not partisan, self-deprecating, been around enough to be above it all (literally and metaphorically) and slightly eccentric,” says Charles Antaki. “David Attenborough without the gravitas.”
Yeah, his self-deprecation in particular makes him very likeable.
2.22pm GMT
90+1 min “Demarai Gray really is a stylish player isn’t he,” says Michael Cosgrove, “particularly given his age, and better still is how he commands respect from opposing players when he gets the ball in space. My money says he has a very bright future ahead of him.”
Yep. The key is his decision-making, which you’d expect to improve as he gets more experience. He’s a lovely player to watch, elegant and progressive. He’s a decent outside bet for the World Cup squad too.
2.20pm GMT
90 min There will be four minutes of added sweat and toil.
2.19pm GMT
89 min Leicester are finishing strongly. They have been in control for most of this match, so the scoreline will irritate them.
2.18pm GMT
88 min Iheanacho has a goal disallowed for offside. Mahrez’s first-time shot hit Allen and deflected to Iheanacho, who lifted it over Butland. He was a few yards beyond the last defender and there were no complaints.
2.15pm GMT
86 min Another Stoke change: Saido Berahino replaces Mame Biram Diouf.
2.14pm GMT
84 min Leicester have calmed things down a little after a very tricky spell. Meanwhile, Baz has assumed the Clockwatch position should you wish to follow the 3pm games.
Related: Newcastle v Bournemouth, Swansea v Brighton and FA Cup first round – live!
2.11pm GMT
82 min Shaqiri’s flat, driven free-kick from the right is headed wide by Choupo-Moting. It wasn’t much of a chance, with defenders all around him.
2.10pm GMT
80 min Leicester make their final change, with Marc Albrighton replacing Demarai Gray on the left wing. Gray was very good in the first half, pretty quiet in the second.
2.09pm GMT
79 min Stoke are harassing Leicester much more than they did for the first 70 minutes. Crouch has changed the mood of the match as well as the score. Leicester look vulnerable defensively but still very dangerous on the break.
2.08pm GMT
78 min Vardy almost makes it 3-2 on the break. Iheanacho played the ball into the area, where Vardy was one against one with Shawcross. He dummied to shoot with his right foot and turned back inside, a brilliant piece of skill that sent Shawcross off like a fire engine going to the wrong fire, only to drag a left-footed shot a few yards wide. He should have scored.
2.04pm GMT
74 min Peter Crouch is a national treasure.
2.03pm GMT
Crouchigollllll! Stoke are level through the simplest of goals. Shaqiri curled a fast outswinging corner to the near post, where Crouch got in front of Fuchs to thump an excellent downwards header into the net.
2.02pm GMT
72 min Allen plays a short pass back to the underlapping Zouma, whose well-struck shot from the edge of the area is comfortably held by Schmeichel at the near post.
2.01pm GMT
71 min Vardy gobbles up the ground down the left, but the well positioned Wimmer blocks his attempted cross to Iheanacho.
2.00pm GMT
70 min Stoke are lumping everything towards Crouch and Diouf now, which is fair enough in the circumstances.
1.59pm GMT
69 min A Stoke substitution: the quiet Ramadan Sobhi is replaced by Peter Crouch.
1.58pm GMT
67 min Stoke have gone to a back four, with Diouf moving from right wing-back to centre-forward.
1.55pm GMT
66 min Claude Puel makes another change, with Andy King replacing the injured goalscorer Vicente Iborra. He looks a good player.
1.55pm GMT
65 min Leicester have been much the better team today. They look really sharp and hungry, just as they did when Craig Shakespeare took over earlier in the year. They should sack their manager every fortnight.
1.53pm GMT
64 min Some Stoke players thought Ndidi fouled Diouf in the build up to the goal. It looked a good challenge to me, and more importantly to Jon Moss.
1.51pm GMT
61 min Just before the goal, Schmeichel made a terrific diving save from Shawcross’s header.
1.51pm GMT
Riyad Mahrez gives Leicester the lead with a splendid solo goal. Ndidi won the ball in midfield and lobbed it across the field to Mahrez on the right. He slithered away from Pieters, moved into the area and hit an early left-footed shot that went through Butland into the net. Butland might have done better but I think the lack of backlift caught him by surprise.
1.49pm GMT
59 min A Leicester substitution: Shinji Okazaki off, Kelechi Iheanacho on.
1.48pm GMT
58 min On reflection I don’t think Allen’s shot did hit Maguire, it just looped up in the air off the outside of his foot.
1.47pm GMT
57 min Choupo-Moting cuts the ball back from the byline towards Joe Allen, whose left-footed shot is blocked by Maguire. It was slightly behind Allen, who still managed to drag the ball towards goal before it hit Maguire. Choupo-Moting has been Stoke’s most dangerous attacker by a distance.
1.43pm GMT
53 min Gray plays a cute pass infield to Mahrez, who shifts the ball away from Shawcross and blasts a fine low shot that whistles just wide of the far post. Leicester have been really good in attack today, full of class and menace.
1.42pm GMT
52 min Mahrez shows why footballers dive so often. He was clearly fouled 25 yards from goal, tried to stay on his feet and eventually lost his balance. Because of the delay, Jon Moss gave no free-kick.
1.39pm GMT
49 min Vardy beats Zouma twice on the left before crossing just over the head of Okazaki. Then Mahrez hits an awkward, wobbling shot from 30 yards that is sensibly pushed over by Butland.
1.37pm GMT
47 min A decent start to the second half from Stoke, with Allen’s deflected cross-shot well held by the stretching Schmeichel.
1.35pm GMT
46 min Peep peep!
1.20pm GMT
Half-time reading
Related: Alexis Sánchez has the chance to show City what they are not missing | Barney Ronay
1.19pm GMT
Half-time chit-chat
“Surely no list of Darren Fletcher’s greatest moments would be complete without mention of his header against Chelsea in 2005?” says Matt Loten. “Not only was it a winning goal against an imperious, early-Mourinho title-winning side, but it ended the Blues’ 40-match unbeaten run, and it was a logic-defying, looping, did-he-really-mean-that header back across the goal from an improbable angle to boot. Magnificent.”
1.19pm GMT
Peep peep! That was a half of two halves. The first was dire; the second was almost ceaselessly entertaining. Leicester have been the more dangerous side, with Gray looking impressive again, and will be aggrieved that they aren’t ahead. See you in 10 minutes for the second half.
1.15pm GMT
45 min “Re the ref’s injury - obviously sorry to see that the poor bloke can’t continue but I have trouble with refs with names like Bobby,” says Kevin Ryan. “They should be named appropriately like, for example, Roger Kirkpatrick, who if memory serves me correctly was a ref in the 70s, bald with mutton chop sideburns. A man who stood no nonsense. Maybe that’s why today’s players badger and chase and harangue referees - it’s on account of their first names. You wouldn’t have seen old Roger putting up with Mr Terry et all chasing him across the pitch....”
1.14pm GMT
44 min The Stoke corner leads to an impromptu game of head tennis, until Choupo-Moting belabours a volley into orbit.
1.13pm GMT
43 min Shaqiri’s low shot from 20 yards is pushed round by Schmeichel. It was a comfortable save. He might have been able to catch it but decided to play safe.
1.12pm GMT
42 min “I agree that Stoke are probably too solid to be relegation candidates,” says Roy Allen. “They’ll grind out enough points. By “in trouble” I meant in decline. Unlikely to go down this year I’d have thought.”
Ah I see what you mean. Yep, I’d agree with that.
1.11pm GMT
41 min Leicester have been extremely good in the last 10 minutes. Okazaki puts in a dangerous cross from the right that is shanked just over his own bar by Diouf.
1.10pm GMT
This goal isn’t just against the run of play; it’s an affront to the run of play. It was beautifully taken though. Choupo-Moting, with his back to goal, turned a nice pass round the corner to put Shaqiri through on the right of the area, and he opened his body to curl the ball past Schmeichel into the far corner.
1.08pm GMT
37 min Fine save from Butland! All of a sudden Leicester are rampant. Gray destroys Zouma on the left and cuts back a fast cross to the near post, where Okazaki stoops to twist his neck and head at goal from six yards. It bounced up at Butland, who shovelled it over the bar. The corner brings yet another chance, with Iborra heading over from Gray’s cross. He should have hit the target.
1.06pm GMT
36 min Zouma redeeems his own error with a crucial last-ditch tackle on Mahrez. It helped that Mahrez dithered just slightly when he had the option of an early ball across the face of goal to Vardy. The resulting corner almost leads to a similar goal to the first, with Iborra’s close-range shot blocked after another knock down from Maguire at the far post.
1.05pm GMT
35 min That was a deceptively good finish from Iborra, who adjusted his body quickly to ensure the shot went on target rather than into orbit. It was straight at Butland but hit with such power that it was always likely to go in.
1.03pm GMT
Mahrez swings a deep corner to the far post that is won in the air by Maguire. He nods it down towards Iborra, who thrashes a half-volley through Butland from six yards.
1.02pm GMT
32 min Butland comes for Fuchs’s cross, gets nowhere near it and is happy to see Pieters head it behind for a corner. That leads to another corner, and then...
12.59pm GMT
28 min Schmeichel makes a good save to deny Choupo-Moting. Sobhi, just inside his own half, played a fine through pass that allowed Choupo-Moting to run at the last man Maguire. He moved into the box, came inside from the left and hit a low right-footed shot that was pushed away by the sprawling Schmeichel. Sobhi’s pass and Choupo-Moting’s run were lovely; the final shot was a bit too close to the keeper.
12.58pm GMT
27 min This game is bad (and that ain’t good). Sorry, I don’t know what else to say. You know you’re in trouble when the most notable incident is a change of referee.
12.56pm GMT
26 min “I’m here,” says Patrick Rennie. “Could we discuss Darren ‘ consecutive games and playing every minute of almost all’ Fletcher. What moment of Fletcher’s career is your favourite?
12.55pm GMT
25 min Play has finally resumed after that refereeing change.
12.53pm GMT
23 min “I’m watching in a pub in Hong Kong,” says Roy Allen. “The clientele are far from captivated by the spectacle so far. Stoke look like a team in trouble. Lacking pattern and inspiration.”
They’re too competent to be in trouble, aren’t they? I do agree though, that they lack a bit of inspiration in attack.
12.52pm GMT
22 min The referee Bobby Madley has a calf injury and is going to be replaced by Jon Moss.
12.51pm GMT
20 min ... and Mahrez cracks it into the wall. Stoke break dangerously, with Allen playing a fine pass to Sobhi on the left. He gets caught in four minds and Leicester launch a counter-counter-attack. Eventually Gray lofts a teasing ball to the far post that just evades the stretching Okazaki.
12.49pm GMT
20 min Gray, the liveliest attacker so far, zips infield and is fouled by a combination of Diouf and Zouma. The free-kick is just outside the box, a fair way to the left of centre. Gray and Mahrez are over it...
12.46pm GMT
17 min Anyone out there?
12.45pm GMT
16 min This game is a struggle.
12.43pm GMT
14 min Shaqiri’s shot from 20 yards dribbles tamely wide.
12.41pm GMT
11 min The elegant Gray teases Zouma on the left of the box and drives a low cross into the six-yard box. Vardy gets to it first at the near post but his instinctive shot is smothered by Wimmer. That was excellent defending.
12.39pm GMT
9 min Fletcher has played a few good passes for Stoke. That aside, they have been a bit subdued.
12.37pm GMT
6 min “What is your opinion of Xherdan Shaqiri and how he has performed since moving to the Premier League?” asks Shaun Wilkinson. “When that happened, I was hugely excited to see how he would do at Stoke. He seems to have some good spells and scored some spectacular goals, but I can’t help thinking there could have been so much more.”
Yeah I agree. Stoke make a lot of eye-catching signings who don’t quite live up to their reputation. Shaqiri does some astonishing things with a football; he just doesn’t do them as much as we’d like. The Premier League’s a better place with him in it, though.
12.35pm GMT
5 min Vardy vrooms down the right to win the first corner. Nowt happens. It’s still all Leicester though.
12.33pm GMT
4 min Leicester have had all the early possession, with Stoke sitting surprisingly deep.
12.32pm GMT
2 min This is a pretty attacking Leicester team, with Gray, Mahrez, Okazaki and Vardy all starting. They might become a slightly different, more proactive team under Claude Puel.
12.30pm GMT
1 min Peep peep! After a minute’s silence ahead of Remembrance Day next weekend, Stoke get the game going.
12.24pm GMT
The players emerge from the tunnel on a
wet, windy
crisp, sunny afternoon in Stoke. This being Stoke, there’s a cracking, old-fashioned atmosphere.
11.56am GMT
Some pre-match reading
Related: Premier League: 10 talking points from the weekend’s action
11.34am GMT
Stoke City (3-4-2-1) Butland; Zouma, Shawcross, Wimmer; Diouf, Fletcher, Allen, Pieters; Shaqiri, Sobhi; Choupo-Moting.
Substitutes: Grant, Martins Indi, Adam, Afellay, Jese, Berahinho, Crouch.
Leicester City (4-2-3-1) Schmeichel; Simpson, Morgan, Maguire, Fuchs; Ndidi, Iborra; Mahrez, Okazaki, Gray; Vardy.
Substitutes: Hamer, Dragovic, Amartey, King, Albrighton, Slimani, Iheanacho.
10.24am GMT
Morning. The hype machine hasn’t gone into overdrive ahead of this match. That’s more an indictiment of our silly elitism than it is of Stoke and Leicester, two good teams who have established themselves in the second tier of the Premier League.
They have achieved that status in very different ways. Stoke are one of the most admirable clubs in the league, a beacon of stability in an age of managerial Tinder. Leicester are on their third coach of 2017, Claude Puel, who got off to a good start last week with a win over Everton. Victory for either team today would move them into the top table, closer to the holy grail of seventh place.
Continue reading...October 28, 2017
Liverpool 3-0 Huddersfield, West Brom 2-3 Man City, Arsenal 2-1 Swansea – as it happened
Manchester City restored their five-point lead withanother impressive performance at the Hawthorns, while Arsenal and Liverpool were also victorious
5.01pm BST
That’s it for another busy clocko. These are the final Premier League scores, and we’ll have match reports on the site in the next 15 minutes or so.
Related: England v Spain: Under-17 World Cup final — live!
4.58pm BST
That Palace goal came after an abysmal piece of play from Michail Antonio. He could have kept the ball in the corner but decided to cross and it ended up in the keeper Speroni’s hands. Palace broke and Zaha got the equaliser Palace deserve for a brilliant second-half performance.
4.56pm BST
Palace have equalised in the seventh minute of injury time!
4.55pm BST
That’s an excellent, well deserved victory for Stoke.
4.54pm BST
Watford 0-1 Stoke The Watford keeper Heurelho Gomes goes up for a corner, Stoke break and Charlie Adam misses an open goal!
4.53pm BST
That’s 13 wins in a row for City, whose victory was more comfortable than the scoreline suggests.
4.51pm BST
It took a while, but in the end Liverpool were emphatic winners against Huddersfield. They move into the top six as a result.
4.50pm BST
That’s a tough but important win for Arsenal, who move to within a point of Spurs.
4.50pm BST
Matt Phillips gets a consolation for West Brom after Nicolas Otamendi mistakes himself for Franz Beckenbauer. He tried to chest the ball back to the keeper and Phillips nipped in to score.
4.47pm BST
It’s all a bit quiet in the Premier League, with a few minutes remaining. These are the latest scores.
4.43pm BST
England are 2-1 down to Spain in the Under-17 World Cup final. Get the latest with Will Unwin.
Related: England v Spain: Under-17 World Cup final — live!
4.42pm BST
A surprise in the Championship, where Wolves are 2-1 down at QPR. In-form Norwich are also losing by the same score at home to Derby.
4.40pm BST
Crystal Palace 1-2 West Ham Another terrific save from Joe Hart, this time from Yohan Cabaye’s free-kick.
4.39pm BST
Crystal Palace 1-2 West Ham Joe Hart, who is having a good day, has made an important save from Wilfried Zaha.
4.35pm BST
Reasons to love Chris Kamara, part 4231482392 “Watford are playing with four players up front now, desperate to try and get a goal, but they are being snifled… stuffled… blocked out.”
4.35pm BST
Mo Salah tees up home goalscoring specialist Georginio Wijnaldum, who wallops an excellent shot past Lossl.
4.34pm BST
A decade is a long time in football. Manchester City have scored 35 goals in 10 Premier League games. They scored 29 in the entire 2006-07 season.
4.29pm BST
4.26pm BST
“I was more than happy to have Carroll at Liverpool,” says Matt Dony. “ He’d been really very good for Newcastle. But, no, there was never any chance he’d replace Torres. I didn’t know much about Suarez at the time, but his transfer had been confirmed earlier. Carroll’s went through at 10:30 or so, and Torres’ was delayed. For a tantalising 45 minutes or so, it appeared that all three were Liverpool players. That would have been truly magnificent. My eyes are tearing up just thinking about it.”
4.25pm BST
“Arsenal drew 2-2 at home to Man City in April , sorry,” apologises Griff Simon.
Fair point, my mistake.
4.23pm BST
The substitute Raheem Sterling wraps up victory for Manchester City, converting Kyle Walker’s cross at the end of another terrifyingly good team move.
4.22pm BST
As things stand, the Big Six are the top six for the first time this season: Manchester City, Manchester United, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool. Well that was the 2017-18 season, thanks for your company, bye!
4.21pm BST
Liverpool 2-0 Huddersfield Lossl makes another spectacular save from Salah, this time tipping his shot onto the post.
4.20pm BST
Jordan Jones has equalised for Kilmarnock, who may yet end Celtic’s long domestic unbeaten run.
4.17pm BST
Liverpool are heading for their first home win since August. Roberto Firmino has put them 2-0 ahead with a close-range header.
4.16pm BST
Arsenal have won every home game since that infamous 5-1 defeat to Bayern Munich in March, and the run seems set to continute. Aaron Ramsey has given them the lead from Kolasinac’s cross.
4.13pm BST
Crystal Palace 1-2 West Ham Yohan Cabaye hits the post for Palace, who have been inspired by Roy Hodgson’s half-time teamtalk.
4.12pm BST
Arsenal 1-1 Swansea Laurent Koscielny misses a great headed chance for Arsenal.
4.11pm BST
“As a Baggies fan, I’m delighted to have been proved wrong on my nil forecast,” says Alan Davis. “JR may well be right about the Carob-Cocoa cup match, but in the League last season City won 4-0 and only looked rattled when Jonathan Leko came on as sub to run at them. Nowadays Phillips and MacLean can’t get into the starting eleven, Oliver Burke can’t get into the squad, and Leko can’t even get into The Hawthorns.”
4.11pm BST
Roy Hodgson’s burst of half-time Churchill has worked: Palace are back in the game thanks to a penalty from Luka Milivojevic.
4.09pm BST
Arsenal 1-1 Swansea Tammy Abraham has a goal disallowed for offside. I don’t have a live feed, because we don’t do illegality at the Guardian, but it sounds like it was very tight.
4.08pm BST
The big man has equalised for Arsenal, ramming past Fabianski from 15 yards.
4.08pm BST
Daniel Sturridge gives the world a necessary reminder of his talent, dinking the ball sweetly over Lossl to give Liverpool the lead.
4.04pm BST
Peep peep! The second halves have begun around England, and Scotland. It’s a training session at Anfield: Liverpool Attack 0-0 Huddersfield Defence.
4.04pm BST
“Hi Rob,” says Konstantin Sauer. “Second half in Bundesliga has just kicked off. Only a handful of goals so far with Schalke, Hertha and Hoffenheim each 1:0 up against their respective opponents Wolfsburg, Hamburg and Monchengladbach. Köln lead by one in the Rhine Derby against Leverkusen, seeking to end their horrendous run in Bundesliga so far. Hannover surprisingly are in a 2:1 lead against Borussia Dortmund, showing a great display of efficiency. However, I’d expect some more goals to follow in this match. As it stands, Dortmund could lose their place at the top of the league to either Bayern Munich or Leipzig that will meet later this evening - only few days after their encounter in the German Cup.”
I’m only a casual Bundesliga fan. Is there any chance at all that Bayern won’t win the league?
4.02pm BST
“Bear with me here...” says Matt Dony. “The highest psychological cost I’ve paid wasn’t a Liverpool loss as such. January 31st, 2011. A Monday. It had been my first day in a stop-gap call centre job that I detested. I was struggling to get an issue resolved with HMRC and had spent two hours on the phone to them after work. There was an issue with my car, so I walked about two miles to my in-laws’, so I could get a lift home. My wife was away with work, so I was alone in a large apartment in an old manse in the middle of nowhere. I loved Fernando Torres more than any other player. I had been hurt by the way his performances had tailed off, and the fact that he clearly wanted to move. But I still hoped against hope that he’d stay. I followed the last hours of the transfer window on a few different rolling blogs, ate Super Noodles, drank Carling, and just waited for confirmation. The deal wasn’t ratified until long after 11pm. It was a long night, and possibly the lowest football has ever made me feel. I would still take him back.”
I’d love to have seen the utter dejection on your coupon when it was announced they were replacing him with Andy Carroll.
4.00pm BST
More on Max Crocombe, the Salford goalkeeper sent off for urinating.
“I haven’t seen the incident,” says Allan Castle, “but it’s clear he had to go. I’m here all week.”
3.59pm BST
“Back when we still lived in Greenland, our household paid the equivalent of 120 of pounds a month for internet (yes...) and 50 pounds for an online EPL subscription (no access to regular tv channels), and all 2000 pounds of it a year just to watch the favourite team take a beating without delivering much of anything,” says Mads Pihl. “Wonderful times, really. Now, at least, we can watch the same thing happen for a fraction of the costs.”
Great days. Which particular team was this? You’re a Sunderland fan, aren’t you?
3.50pm BST
Shameless half-time plug
3.50pm BST
Half-time reading
Related: England v Spain: Under-17 World Cup final — live!
3.48pm BST
It’s half-time in the five Premier League games, and it’s a good day to be an away supporter.
3.46pm BST
Arsenal 0-1 Swansea The other Ayew, Jordan, has missed a great chance to give Swansea a 2-0 lead at the Emirates.
3.45pm BST
Celtic are on course to equal their own British record of 62 matches without defeat in domestic competition.
3.44pm BST
What a week this has been for West Ham. They won at Spurs in the Carabou Cup, and now Andre Ayew has smashed them into a 2-0 lead at Selhurst Park!
3.43pm BST
Jonas Lossl saves Mohamed Salah’s penalty, and Jordan Henderson hits the post from the rebound!
3.41pm BST
ITUEYMI, England are in a World Cup final today.
Related: England v Spain: Under-17 World Cup final — live!
3.39pm BST
Liverpool 0-0 Huddersfield Liverpool have had 75 per cent possession, without threatening to score.
3.38pm BST
I need to know more about that red card for Max Crocombe, the Salford City goalkeeper, against Bradford Park Avenue.
3.36pm BST
Crystal Palace 0-1 West Ham Joe Hart has made a spectacular reaction save from James Tomkins to keep West Ham ahead.
3.34pm BST
87' - We can confirm that Crocombe has been sent off for urinating during the game. We are not joking. #greenarmy (1-2)
3.33pm BST
“I paid the 30 quid WIFI fee to keep up on Everton getting murdered 4-1 at Man U,” sniffs Mark Grice. “What’s the most people have paid to watch or kept up with the news of their side getting a hiding?”
Are we talking just money or does incurable psychological damage count?
3.32pm BST
Javier Hernandez gives West Ham the lead, finishing nicely from Aaron Cresswell’s cross. Royston Hodgson has a problem.
3.30pm BST
You can get the latest EFL scores by clicking here. Sunderland are losing.
3.29pm BST
Phil Thompson, on Sky Sports, informs us that Crystal Palace v West Ham is fifty shades of stinker. It’s 0-0 after half an hour.
3.28pm BST
Here’s Allan Castle, and he’s got his gah on. “’Arsenal, utterly dominant, are behind’. Says the commentator, to the surprise of no Arsenal fan anywhere. Gah.”
3.27pm BST
Manchester City must be a decent bet to break Chelsea’s record of 103 goals in a Premier League season. They need to score another 70 from the last 28 and a half matches. The all-time record for a top-flight team is 128 by Aston Villa in 1930-31.
3.25pm BST
As things stand, Arsenal and Liverpool are, respectively, 12 and 14 points behind Manchester City. It’s over for them for another season.
3.23pm BST
Swansea, who have been under constant pressure, sting Arsenal on the break. Tammy Abraham’s stunning pass is finished nicely by Sam Clucas, through the legs of Petr Cech.
3.17pm BST
Has Marco Silva taken Watford as far as he can? No, clearly, but his team are behind to a storming volley from Darren Fletcher.
3.16pm BST
Reading 0-1 Middlesbrough A penalty from Grant Leadbitter has given Boro the lead from the spot.
3.16pm BST
Insert that-didn’t-take-long banter here. Fernandinho’s shot deflects off Gareth Barry and into the net to restore Manchester City’s lead.
3.13pm BST
Oh me, oh my!
3.12pm BST
“Just letting you know I am on Thai Airways flight from Bangkok to London, currently over the Caspian Sea,” says Steve Brazier. “Paid USD35 for WiFi to watch the blog, so make it good, and let Arsenal win.”
USD35! Do you realise the impact your email has had on my soul? That I’m now almost too guilty to function? USD35 for this!
3.11pm BST
Insert that-didn’t-take-long banter here. A high-speed move from City, like tiki-taka on steroids, culminates in a cracking finish from the in-form Leroy Sane.
3.07pm BST
Keep telling yourself it’s still 0-0 department: City are all over West Brom at the Hawthorns.
3.07pm BST
“What on earth do people expect Pulis or WBA to do given a) the depth of City attacking talent and b) the mediocrity of that the WBA squad and manager?” says Robin White. “It’ll be 5-3-1-1 or something like that, with probably a lot of man marking throughout the match, and the option to bring on a pacy sub for the last 20 minutes maybe. Having said all that, I would laugh my head off if City win 1-0 from a set piece.”
I’d laugh even harder if West Brom won 7-2 with football to die for.
3.06pm BST
BREAKING NEWS: MANCHESTER CITY HAVEN’T SCORED YET
3.03pm BST
“Hey Rob,” says J.R. in Illinois. “I’m far from the biggest Pulis fan around but perhaps Mr. Davis should take a gander at the West Brom v Man City milk cup game last month. The final score was 1-2 but the Baggies had a boatload of chances and could have scored a hatful.”
3.01pm BST
Poor Dejan Lovren hasn’t started the game at Anfield - he was presumably injured in the warm-up, and Ragnar Klavan has come into the defence alongside Joel Matip.
3.00pm BST
As the 3pm games kick off, here’s Paul Wilson’s match report from the Theatre of Undeniable Defensive Excellence.
Related: Manchester United’s Anthony Martial rises to occasion to sink Spurs
2.59pm BST
“That WBA side,” sniffs Adam Timmins. “No pace in there whatsoever. McClean and Phillips on the bench so Livermore and Barry can lumber around the midfield.”
You don’t need pace at set pieces.
2.54pm BST
“It looks like Tony Pulis is setting up an 8-0-0-0-0-0-2 formation against Man City,” says Alan Davis. “My prediction is that they’ll rack up another nil goals.”
2.48pm BST
“Hello from Shanghai!” says Alex Butler. “Is there any chance of a shoutout for my local team, Shrewsbury Town FC? There are small miracles going on at the Meadow this season, we’re the only undefeated team in the Football League, sitting pretty at the top and are also in the process of reintroducing safe standing capacity in English stadiums. Very proud of all involved! For a small-town club that’s pretty fair going right? Might need to dig deep away to Peterborough United today though, wish us luck!”
I can do that. I can shout. I can give you a shoutout. Congratulations to all involved! The safe-standing campaign is especially interesting.
2.44pm BST
Our man Jacob Steinberg reckons West Ham will line up in a 3-4-1-2 formation, not 4-3-3 as advertised: Hart; Kouyate, Fonte, Ogbonna; Zabaleta, Fernandes, Noble, Cresswell; Lanzini; Ayew, Hernandez.
2.22pm BST
Manchester United have beaten Spurs 1-0 in the early game at Old Trafford, bringing to an end their desperate run of one consecutive league defeat.
Related: Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur: Premier League – live!
2.18pm BST
Spot of the day, from Glyn Thomas
“Just seen the Arsenal - Swans teams,” says Glyn. “There are more English players in the Welsh team than in the English team (zero), and more Welsh players in the English team than in the Welsh team (zero).”
2.17pm BST
West Brom (5-3-2) Foster; Nyom, McAuley, Hegazi, Evans, Gibbs; Livermore, Krychowiak, Barry; Rodriguez, Rondon.
Substitutes: Myhill, Chadli, Brunt, Phillips, McClean, Yacob, Robson-Kanu.
Manchester City (4-1-2-3) Ederson; Walker, Stones, Otamendi, Delph; Fernandinho; De Bruyne, D Silva; B Silva, Jesus, Sane.
Substitutes: Bravo, Mangala, Danilo, Sterling, Gundogan, Toure, Aguero.
2.14pm BST
The substitute Anthony Martial has given Manchester United the lead in the 81st minute at Old Trafford. Scott Murray has the latest.
Related: Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur: Premier League – live!
2.13pm BST
Watford (4-2-3-1) Gomes; Femenia, Kabasele, Britos, Holebas; Capoue, Doucoure; Carrillo, Cleverley, Richarlison; Deeney.
Substitutes: Karnezis, Mariappa, Janmaat, Zeegelaar, Hughes, Watson, Gray.
Stoke (3-4-2-1) Butland; Zouma, Shawcross, Wimmer; Diouf, Fletcher, Allen, Pieters; Shaqiri, Sobhi; Choupo-Moting.
Substitutes: Grant, Edwards, Adam, Afellay, Jese, Ngoy, Berahino.
2.10pm BST
Liverpool (4-3-3) Mignolet; Gomez, Matip, Lovren, Moreno; Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum; Salah, Sturridge, Firmino.
Substitutes: Karius, Klavan, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Can, Grujic, Solanke.
Huddersfield (4-2-3-1) Lossl; Smith, Zanka, Schindler, Lowe; Williams, Hogg; van La Parra, Mooy, Ince; Depoitre.
Substitutes: Green, Malone, Cranie, Hadergjonaj, Mounie, Kachunga, Quaner.
2.07pm BST
Crystal Palace (4-2-3-1) Speroni; Ward, Dann, Tomkins, van Aanholt; Milivojevic, Cabaye; Townsend, Loftus-Cheek, Schlupp; Zaha.
Substitutes: Hennessey, Riedewald, Kelly, Delaney, Fosu-Mensah, Sako, Puncheon.
West Ham (4-3-3) Hart; Zabaleta, Fonte, Ogbonna, Cresswell; Fernandes, Kouyate, Noble; Ayew, Chicharito, Lanzini.
Substitutes: Adrian, Rice, Masuaku, Antonio, Obiang, Carroll, Arnautovic.
2.04pm BST
Arsenal (3-4-2-1) Cech; Koscielny, Mertesacker, Monreal; Bellerin, Ramsey, Xhaka, Kolasinac; Ozil, Sanchez; Lacazette.
Substitutes: Macey, Holding, Wilshere, Iwobi, Coquelin, Giroud, Walcott.
Swansea (3-5-2) Fabianski; van der Hoorn, Fernandez, Mawson; Naughton, Ki, Fer, Carroll, Clucas; Ayew, Abraham.
Substitutes: Nordfeldt, Rodon, Dyer, Mesa, Narsingh, Routledge, McBurnie.
1.48pm BST
In a surprising development, it’s 0-0 at Old Trafford in the contest between the two best defences in the league. You can follow the last half hour with Scott Murray.
Related: Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur: Premier League – live!
10.53am BST
Tony Pulis: your country of employment needs you. If an opposing team does not stall Manchester City soon, the English Premier League will become a one-horse race for the fourth time in six seasons. Today, that scary opportunity falls to Pulis’s West Bromwich Albion. Godspeed, lads.
City have played some awesome football in the last month or two, spectacularly demonstrating the culture of the assist that Pep Guardiola has introduced, and there is a chance they will win the title by 15 points. The main hope for the rest of the league is that we were saying the same thing when City won their first 10 games in all competitions last season. It’ll be interesting to see how they respond to being undermined, but only if somebody manages to undermine them.
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