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Books/Series you never plan to read...and why?
There are very few series that I won't at least give a try. There are (so far) 3 series I will never again go near:The First is Dreaming the Eagle from the Boudicca series by Manda Scott which is more Historical Fiction. I got 1/2 way through, and the turn the story took just enraged me and I chucked the book across the room, where my grandmother found it the next week and threw it away.
I only got to ch. 2 of New Moon and nearly gave myself a coma by hitting my head repeatedly on the table when Bella and Edward were reciting Romeo and Juliette to each other. Rather than risk brain damage, I quit reading the series and for my continued good health I won't attempt to have another go it.
I also won't touch any of the Monere series by Sunny. Its exemplary of everything that went wrong with LKH's later series.
on the subject of LKH...
Soan wrote: "There are LKH books at my apartment, left by previous tenant. Wondering if I should risk them? "
I have a long history with the series, and I can without fear recommend the first 3 books. They are solid Noir-ish, violent, police case/mystery centred stories with elements of horror and some romantic tension. These were the building blocks that the PNR genre seemed build itself on.
The books don't get physical sex-wise till book...4-5. Definitely STOP at Book 7, Burnt Offerings - that's where everything Good in LKH's writing died.
But what was good in the beginning is still good now. I like to, at the very least, give her the credit she's earned. The discredit she does well enough on her own, unfortunately =/
I never plan to read any of John Scalzi's books because they are too much like/based off/reinvented of certain classics of science fiction like Little Fuzzy, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, and The Forever War.
Kevin,Scalzi wrote
as an homage to H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy but I don't see how his other books are in any way like
? I've always found his books to be very original.
Laurel wrote: "Kevin,Scalzi wrote
as an homage to H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy but I don't see how his other books are in any way like [bookcover:The Forever War..."What about The Android's Dream being like Blade Runner? I don't see many of you reading that book.
Laurel wrote: "Kevin,Scalzi wrote
as an homage to H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy but I don't see how his other books are in any way like [bookcover:The Forever War..."I hear Old Man's War is much like Forever War or Starship Troopers in the structures.
I'm just saying is in all of his books, he borrows certain things from certain books.
Kevin I was talking about John Scalzi. I've been a huge fan of Bladerunner for a long time now, but I haven't read The Android's Dream in a while. if you wanted to talk about that one, I'd have to refresh my memory with a re-read.
*** NEWS FLASH ***This breaking news just in:
"Authors often borrow ideas/ gain inspiration from other authors (who, for the most part, themselves borrowed from other authors, and so on down the line)."
We now return you to your regularly scheduled post.
Kevin,If you've heard his books are similar to other books that you like, wouldn't that make you want to read them? I've read the entire Old Man's War series, and I can assure you they're not rip offs. They are very good, however. You should give them a try!
Let me know if you're going to read Old Man's War. I can handle a re-read.
Kevin wrote: "Laurel wrote: "Kevin,Scalzi wrote
as an homage to H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy but I don't see how his other books are in any way like 
instead of Blade Runner, right? Cause Blade Runner is the movie adaptation of the book. If we're being picky for no reason...let's try to be accurate, too.
Confused. But I see how Old Man's War might have been influenced by Forever War but it's in no way a copy. Or a retelling. Or an update. I actually hated Forever War but loved Old Man's War.
Traci, I didn't realize you were a fellow Old Man's War fan! Love that series!Weren't there talks of a movie adaptation?
I won't read A Game of Thrones because I heard he copied all that from War of the Roses and didn't give any credit to either the Lancasters OR the Yorks. Also, there are horses and knights in it, and I'm pretty sure other authors have already used those overwrought tropes.
Chelsea, :)Laurel, haven't heard but I think a movie would be fun. If it were done tongue in cheek. Campy on purpose instead of accidentally.
Well Chelsea, if you're gonna be like that, I'm boycotting The Hobbit because little people were already created in Gulliver's Travels. Yes, I know it didn't involve a quest for the little people, but it was a sort of quest/adventure for the main character, so it counts.*tongue planted firmly in cheek*
All this philosophical conversation has me re-considering my Malazan love. I mean after all, humans have warred against gods before...wow
I'm with you, Carol!Let's not forget R.A. Salvatore. He totally stole the idea of elves. Who does he think he is??
Boycotting him, too.
The maps in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series look just like Europe. Did she ask the continent for permission?! I am appalled.
Valerie wrote: "The maps in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series look just like Europe."*giggle*
Right, MrsJ! I mean, elves that live underground? Only in every old Europen folktale everywhere! Hellllo, Tamlin!
Valerie wrote: "The maps in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series look just like Europe. Did she ask the continent for permission?! I am appalled."Maggie wrote: "and GG Kay's The Lions of Al-Rassan lookes like europe too...he had the audacity to rename Spain!"
*thumbs up*
Carol wrote: "Valerie wrote: "The maps in Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel series look just like Europe."*giggle*
Right, MrsJ! I mean, elves that live underground? Only in every old Europen folktale everywhere! H..."
Well, then you should blame Dungeons and Dragons, not R.A. Salvatore because he did not create the Dark Elves, he just defined it and put them on the map.
Every time this topic comes up, I'm reminded of Joseph Campbell's mythic archetypes The Power of Myth--I think there were nine? Unfortunately, it's on my shelves in the TBR pile, so I will have to rely on your wise heads to summarize it for me.
Kevin wrote: "Well, then you should blame Dungeons and Dragons, not R.A. Salvatore because he did not create the Dark Elves, he just defined it and put them on the map. "So you agree he stole the idea!!!
BOYCOTT!
I read it many years ago, so I'm afraid I can't provide much commentary. However, after it came out I did notice a number of fantasy books that pretty much followed one or the other of the blueprints provided, apparently in the assumption that said blueprints were some sort of arcane magical formula that guaranteed success no matter how well or badly the book was written.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Well, then you should blame Dungeons and Dragons, not R.A. Salvatore because he did not create the Dark Elves, he just defined it and put them on the map. "So you agree he stole the..."
No, I do not agree with you at all. He was writing for Dungeons and Dragons as a product tie in. So part of the idea has to be taken from the D&D world. Its not his fault when dark elves were already in the monster manuals. He just expanded on what was already there provided by Dungeons and Dragons.
Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Well, then you should blame Dungeons and Dragons, not R.A. Salvatore because he did not create the Dark Elves, he just defined it and put them on the map. "So yo..."
Someone is playing both sides of the fence.
He's just like John Scalzi. Too much like other writers, not an original idea in his head.
Kevin wrote: "I never plan to read any of John Scalzi's books because they are too much like/based off/reinvented of certain classics of science fiction...
Carol wrote: "Every time this topic comes up, I'm reminded of Joseph Campbell's mythic archetypes The Power of Myth--I think there were nine? Unfortunately, it's on my shelves in the TBR pile, so I ..."Ahhhhh, you brought up Campbell!! I guess we all owe everything to the ancient Babylonians. Sigh. I guess I can't name my main character Ammisaduqa, too derivative.
Isn't dark elves in Beowulf? Couldn't get through it and I believe there's some question on the correct translation. If it means elves or dwarves...But...
;)
And they all borrowed from somebody including Robert Browning, Shakespeare, the Brothers Grimm, the story of the 'Green Man' and most holy books and on and on . . .The common themes are part and parcel of what we call and enjoy as fantasy. There is even romance fantasy of a very dark nature in the Christian Bible!
Then there is just rewriting someone else's story as your own, but without copying(plagiarizing). Sometimes more of a 'fine' line than we'd like to admit.
An interesting 'fantasy quest' is to find the first inclusion of a theme in literature such as elves. Better be prepared to read illuminated manuscripts!
S.J. wrote: "I read it many years ago, so I'm afraid I can't provide much commentary. However, after it came out I did notice a number of fantasy books that pretty much followed one or the other of the blueprin..."Honestly, I think the real trick isn't in breaking away from the Quest plot, or any of the blueprints, but rather working with the characters and the world to make it truly unique. That's what I like so much about Rothfuss. Yeah, there's a magic school but it's nothing like Earthsea or Harry Potter.
Traci wrote: "Isn't dark elves in Beowulf? Couldn't get through it and I believe there's some question on the correct translation. If it means elves or dwarves...But...
;)"
Nah, that guy TOTALLY plagiarized the bible. Mark of Cain? Really, anonymous? Couldn't even be bothered to change the names around.
Traci wrote: "Isn't dark elves in Beowulf? Couldn't get through it and I believe there's some question on the correct translation. If it means elves or dwarves...But...
;)"
Dark elves have been around since the idea of fairies. Certainly since Shakespeare's time. It's clear it's an old trope. SMH.
Chelsea wrote: "Nah, that guy TOTALLY plagiarized the bible. Mark of Cain? Really, anonymous? Couldn't even be bothered to change the names around. "lolol!!!
I think many writers steal ideas from each other. It started with Homer and is still going strong. As long as you put your own words and interpretations on the idea, it's OK. For example: Mercedes Lackey with her Diana Tregard series and Tanya Huff with her Blood series. In both, a female PI and her friend, a vampire writer, fight crime. I interviewed Huff a few years ago and I asked her about this. She said it's a coincidence. Personally, I think that maybe they had the same teacher or went to the same workshop. The idea floated, and both picked it up and made it their own.
Chelsea wrote: "Ahhhhh, you brought up Campbell!! I guess we all owe everything to the ancient Babylonians. Sigh. I guess I can't name my main character Ammisaduqa, too derivative."And you had best forget your plot of the hero's quest, or a creation myth, or the war of good versus evil, because that's so been done before. Darn those Babylonians! And those Chinese!
MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Well, then you should blame Dungeons and Dragons, not R.A. Salvatore because he did not create the Dark Elves, he just defined it and put them on the m..."MrsJoseph do you understand the fact that he was writing for TSR or Dungons and Dragon. I know he would never have put Dark Elves in any of his books or thought about anyting Dark Elves related, if he was not writting for D&D. Plus its just something that came out of his head in less than minute worth of time that he had to do in order to actually have TSR accepted to become a actual published author. Tell me you could have not come up with something, even if its a trope in less than mintue worth of time. The fact that it actually worked is pretty amazing.
Chelsea: I never read any of the Earthsea books, but I tried to watch the TV miniseries supposedly based on them. Before the first episode was over, I dismissed the miniseries as 'Harry Potter Goes To Junior College' and never bothered to watch any more of it.The problem with authors hewing to any of the Campbell blueprints is that they often feel the need to ring every bell mentioned, which means that after the first couple of clangs you know exactly how the rest of the story will play out. One reason I never bothered to go and see the movie 'Eragon' was because in one of the previews they had Liam Neeson telling the boy character: 'You are the Chosen One!" Once I heard that, I knew that the kid was unbeatable, and felt no desire to watch him be unbeatable.
The only fantasy movie I can recall seeing that didn't fall into predictable follow-the-blueprint was the old Disney movie 'Dragonslayer'.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Well, then you should blame Dungeons and Dragons, not R.A. Salvatore because he did not create the Dark Elves, he just defined it and put them on the m..."You teally come out with Salvatore, just because of what I said about Scalzi. I mean you can't really find any direct extended in depth material based on the Dark Elves before Salvatore worte about them, but you could with Scalzi's work.
Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph do you understand the fact that he was writing for TSR or Dungons and Dragon. I know he would never have put Dark Elves in any of his books or thought about anyting Dark Elves related, if he was not writting for D&D. Plus its just something that came out of his head in less than minute worth of time that he had to do in order to actually have TSR accepted to become a actual published author. The fact that it actually worked is pretty amazing."
I understand that you are full of it. You claim you won't read one writer because he's "too much like others" and then you defend another that is doing the exact same thing because you like him. Kev, you have no credibility. None.
You are not RA Salvatore so you have no clue what he would have done. We can only say what he has already done...which is NOT original. So. The dark elves idea is older than Do Android's Dream of Electric Sheep. Much, much older.
Are you going to go read some John Scalizi now?
MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph do you understand the fact that he was writing for TSR or Dungons and Dragon. I know he would never have put Dark Elves in any of his books or thought about anyting Dark Elv..."I'm not going to read any Scalizi until you relaze its D&D's falut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was just trying to get his writing carrer going and have one book published.
Carol wrote: "And you had best forget your plot of the hero's quest, or a creation myth, or the war of good versus evil, because that's so been done before. Darn those Babylonians! And those Chinese! "
Exactly!
And let's not forget the boat ideas! Oh my! Moby DicK...or should we say The Odyssey??
S.J. wrote: "Chelsea: I never read any of the Earthsea books, but I tried to watch the TV miniseries supposedly based on them. Before the first episode was over, I dismissed the miniseries as 'Harry Potter Goes..."Hi SJ, I enjoyed A Wizard of Earthsea, but only read the first book in the series. I would not suggest using the mini series as an accurate indicator of the quality of the book, though. It's definitely worth a read, and was written before HP. I'm not knocking Harry Potter, I think it's a great series, but Earthsea did come first.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph do you understand the fact that he was writing for TSR or Dungons and Dragon. I know he would never have put Dark Elves in any of his books or thought about anyting Dark Elv..."Yes, I would have because he had a novel already written when he wrote Drizzt, but nobody would published because he was unknown. He had to establish himself first. It was written back in 1984, but it was not published until 1991. Its called Echoes of the Fourth Magic.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Exactly!And let's not forget the boat ideas! Oh my! Moby DicK...or should we say The Odyssey?? "
One man's sirens are another man's giant, demonic albino sperm whale. Totally the same, except for the part where Moby Dick is a terrible book, and Homer's Odyssey is told with beautifully nuanced language.
Kevin wrote: "I'm not going to read any Scalizi until you relaze its D&D's falut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was just trying to get his writing carrer going and have one book published. "O_o
o_O
O_O
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Dang, the man wrote the book...how is that D & D's fault?Publisher's like all sorts of things
Kevin wrote: "Yes, I would have because he had a novel already written when he wrote Drizzt, but nobody would published because he was unknown. He had to establish himself first. It was written back in 1984, but it was not published until 1991. Its called Echoes of the Fourth Magic."Ummm. Yeah.
So...what you're saying is that Salvatore has no integrity.
*nods*
I can agree with that.
Hi, Chelsea. I've learned not to judge books by the horrible made-for-TV adaptations of them, but on occasion all I have time for is watching one of those adaptations or a movie. I never read any of the 'Harry Potter' books, though I did enjoy watching the first few movies in the series. A friend of mine, on the other hand, made a point of buying each and every 'Harry Potter' book as it came out, in hardback, though he never went to see any of the movies.
Chelsea wrote: "S.J. wrote: "Chelsea: I never read any of the Earthsea books, but I tried to watch the TV miniseries supposedly based on them. Before the first episode was over, I dismissed the miniseries as 'Harr..."The same thing could be said about the anime too, not accurate to the books, but its done beautiful since its done by the same people who did Howl's Moving Castle, Studio Ghibli.
Fantasy Aficionados
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I read one of those and I didn't like it that much either.