Controversial Statements - Bring em - No weak sauce allowed! Homelessness: A Mercy Sex Ploy?

[Scout]

Lobstergirl wrote: "Mark, how do you feel about capital letters?"

That gave me a laugh. He expects people to take his ideas seriously when he can't write a sentence correctly.

[mark]

Scout, were you born rude or did you just become that way gradually? what is wrong with you?

[Kevin]

scout - i don't waste my upper case letters on sentences as i save them all for acronyms.

[~Geektastic~]

I really hate this thread sometimes. Controversy can spark really great discussion, but there is a lot of unnecessary bad blood in here, too. Scout, mark has only been here for a couple of days, he barely knows any of us and you're not making us look very good. Don't get me wrong, I have no personal beef with you and I don't want to have one, but that is really rude, especially talking about him like he can't see what you're saying. Kevin has been doing the ee cummings routine forever (not that there's anything wrong with that) but you select mark for ridicule and that's not fair. He's been keeping a decent tone and actually discussing the topic at hand, rather than arguing or being combative, so I don't understand this hostility.

[Phil]

Mark is a booger head.

[Phil]

What? Too hostile?


Sorry. I meant to say "poopie poo."

[Phil]

Aw, heck. Being mean is hard.

[~Geektastic~]

Phil wrote: "Aw, heck. Being mean is hard."

Lol, Phil. Maybe I'm being too uptight today. But dismissing ideas out of hand due to grammar or other writing issues irks me. We tease about grammar here and it's fun, but every once in a while it doesn't feel like teasing.

[[deleted user]]

I dunno... Caps are overrated. I can construct a somewhat gramatically-correct sentence, but by the time I'm through rambling, anyone reading it has long since fallen asleep.

Additionally, my use of commas could use some work.

Rock on, Mark.

[Phil]

Commas, are,,,,, people,,,,,,, too. ,,,,

[Courtney]

pertaining to the conversation above about evolution and survival, maybe our protective nature is an evolutionary thing because we do empathize and know that if we were in a difficult circumstance, we would want someone to help us survive. Maybe it is really a survival instinct to a certain point.

Great conversation in here. Welcome Mark, you bring some great debate.

[Kevin]

my original idea for a controversial statement thread was that i consider most members here (i feel like beavis when i say member heh-heh-heh)are intelligent and have valid opinions, thoughts and beliefs. we get the occasional "oh yeah....well suck it" comments but we should be able to discuss somewhat controversial things and not get our cheerios pissed in.

[[deleted user]]

Kevin "El Liso Grande" wrote: "my original idea for a controversial statement thread was that i consider most members here (i feel like beavis when i say member heh-heh-heh)are intelligent and have valid opinions, thoughts and b..."

Oh yeah, well suck it Kevin.

[~Geektastic~]

Urine is weak sauce? What are we supposed to put on the cheerios, then? Tobasco?

[[deleted user]]

Amber ~Geektastic~ wrote: "Urine is weak sauce? What are we supposed to put on the cheerios, then? Tobasco?"


That's Tabasco with an 'a,' Amber.

[~Geektastic~]

I don't eat spicy stuff, so there's the proof. Tabasco. Ah, that does look better.

[Kevin]

^^^ and THAT is what i like about bun (caps intended)

[Félix]

^^^ Ditto.

[mark]

hey thanks for the nice words folks, i appreciate it! but no worries. i lashed back, in my own way, so today it is just water under the bridge for me. i recognize that groups and teh interweb can often bring out the worst in folks, myself included.

BunWat: "Anyway I'm not sure I accept the distinction you are making between empathy and sympathy Mark. In two respects. In the first, I don't really accept that some of the examples given are empathy while others are "merely" sympathy. What's the difference being pointed at between the two?"

for me, the difference is primarily one that is based around equity. when i feel sorry for someone, when i feel sympathy for their plight or whatever, when i pity them, i am not viewing them as a peer. now i'm not saying that this is an automatically negative thing. a sympathetic response can lead me to donate to various causes, to be kind to and protect children and folks who are weaker than myself, to not be cruel to folks who are unfortunate.

conversely, if i feel empathy towards someone, i am understanding (or trying to understand) the emotions they are experiencing, because i've experienced similar emotions. i see empathy as a kind of mutual respect and understanding between two people, a recognition of shared experience. there is less of an inequal power dynamic - unlike a situation where i am feeling sorry for someone because of their plight. essentially, i'm not feeling sorry for them at all... i'm understanding the emotions that they are going through (although not necessarily the specific situation, because who can truly walk in another's shoes) and so i'm empathizing with those emotions.

for me personally, i often dislike it when someone views me with sympathy or feels sorry for me. it makes me feel like a child. on the other hand, if i feel like someone is empathizing with what i may be going through, then i feel like they are making an attempt to actually understand what i'm feeling, the why and the how of it. they are not setting themselves above me.

BunWat: "Secondly, even if there is a difference, is it relevant?"

well that comment and the rest of that paragraph really cuts to the heart of the matter and the purpose of the original question. i wish i had the time to respond! but i have to rush off now... and honestly, i also need time to think about what you've said BunWat. it is a very strong and interesting point that i now need to mull over. well done. anyway, the 2+ hour policy & procedure meeting that i have to be in may give me some space for thought. ugh!

[Kevin]

whenever i read mark's comments i feel like i am in that scene on animal house where they all are high and talk about how our whole universe could be an atom in a giant's fingernail

[Courtney]

Kevin "El Liso Grande" wrote: "whenever i read mark's comments i feel like i am in that scene on animal house where they all are high and talk about how our whole universe could be an atom in a giant's fingernail"

Exactly...I wish Goodreads had a LIKE or LOVE button.

[~Geektastic~]

Aside from evolutionary concerns or the necessity of dividing sympathy from empathy for the sake of a specific argument, I've always considered the two very (importantly) different from one another. Empathy, real empathy, doesn't allow for condescension, but sympathy does. The perspectives of the two are fundamentally different, one being from the outside and the other from the inside.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Clark wrote: "Amber ~Geektastic~ wrote: "Urine is weak sauce? What are we supposed to put on the cheerios, then? Tobasco?"


That's Tabasco with an 'a,' Amber."

HAAAAA !!

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Cortney wrote: "Exactly...I wish Goodreads had a LIKE or LOVE button. "

Thank God it doesn't.

[Phil]

^^^^^^ LIKE

[Sally, la reina]

. i see empathy as a kind of mutual respect and understanding between two people, a recognition of shared experience. there is less of an inequal power dynamic - unlike a situation where i am feeling sorry for someone because of their plight.


Now, you might need to link me to the wikipedia or dictionary.com page on the two but I think Mark has it backwards.

[Sally, la reina]

Plus, I enjoy it when Scout and Lg heckle noobs on their grammar and syntax. Makes me feel like I've spawned grammar-policing babies.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

I'm not trying to be mean. My eyes have trouble reading things that are not properly capitalized. It's harder to tell where sentences begin and end. Kind of like when people fail to put a space after a period or a comma. I don't know if it's a smartphone reformatting or what, but I sometimes see:

Carney repeated that the president has confidence in the Secret Service director,although he said they had not spoken in recent days.Aides in the White House chief of staff’s office were in regular contact with Sullivan,and have briefed the president,Carney said.Members of Congress are questioning whether the incident is part of a pattern at the Secret Service.Several retired agents say they don’t believe so.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

When I see a review where someone hasn't used capitalization, I skip it.

[Sally, la reina]

::rolls around gleefully in Lg's meanness puddless::

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

My eyes also skip over book thumbnails.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

I feel that failing to capitalize properly is the orthographical equivalent of Hello Kitty.

[Sally, la reina]

I empathize.

[Félix]

Books have thumbnails?

[Sally, la reina]

I think she means when people post little pictures of the book instead of a hyperlink of the title. I gloss those too.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Yes.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

I think Kevin agrees with me.

sometimes you look cool when you wear a hello kitty backpack backwards and a cod piece. not very often but sometimes

[mark]

Lobstergirl wrote: "I feel that failing to capitalize properly is the orthographical equivalent of Hello Kitty."

i have similar feelings regarding pointless, ego-feeding snark. it's just so easy. when i see shallow snark, i am instantly reminded of lolcats. well, i suppose every person has their own special way of getting their jollies.

[mark]

Sally wrote: "Now, you might need to link me to the wikipedia or dictionary.com page on the two but I think Mark has it backwards. ..."

feel free to look it up Sally. it's just a click away.

[mark]

Sally wrote: "Plus, I enjoy it when Scout and Lg heckle noobs on their grammar and syntax. Makes me feel like I've spawned grammar-policing babies."

yes, it often feels much safer to mock folks when it is a group mocking an individual!

[mark]

Kevin "El Liso Grande" wrote: "whenever i read mark's comments i feel like i am in that scene on animal house where they all are high and talk about how our whole universe could be an atom in a giant's fingernail"

back in my frat days, that was specifically my role.

[mark]

Amber ~Geektastic~ wrote: "Empathy, real empathy, doesn't allow for condescension, but sympathy does. The perspectives of the two are fundamentally different, one being from the outside and the other from the inside...."

you said everything i was trying to say in a tenth of the space! my aimless verbosity kills me, sigh.

[Félix]

Well, as long as you don't use too many words.

[mark]

BunWat wrote: "Secondly, even if there is a difference, is it relevant? Seems to me the question being asked is, do the collection of behaviors that make us inclined to help and care for others confer an evolutionary advantage or are they evidence of some outside or supernatural force that wants us to be "good." Well, for the purposes of that question it doesn't really matter if sympathy is different from empathy is different from altruism, is different from ......"

for me, it is all about how empathy in some ways creates sentience - to have a consciousness of self and an awareness that others have that same consciousness. something beyond basic urges, something that allows humans to imagine themselves as another. because this feeling can lead to empathizing with individuals who are dangerous or with communities that could threaten your community, it is hard for me to see how empathy is a natural outgrowth of evolution. in terms of survival, empathy does not give us an advantage. so i suppose what i'm wondering is who or what put it inside of us if it is actually something that could hurt us as an individual/community/species? empathy is meaningful, but i don't see its purpose from an evolutionary perspective.

[Sally, la reina]

mark wrote: "Sally wrote: "Now, you might need to link me to the wikipedia or dictionary.com page on the two but I think Mark has it backwards. ..."

feel free to look it up Sally. it's just a click away."


No thank you. I prefer to learn through conversation.

[Sally, la reina]

mark wrote:" i have similar feelings regarding pointless, ego-feeding snark. it's just so easy. ..."

So you are offended by snark?

I heartily enjoy it.

[Félix]

Snark snark.

[Sally, la reina]

mark wrote: "Sally wrote: "Plus, I enjoy it when Scout and Lg heckle noobs on their grammar and syntax. Makes me feel like I've spawned grammar-policing babies."

yes, it often feels much safer to mock folks w..."

If you don't like to be mocked then correct your grammar. It is easy.

[Sally, la reina]

"BunWat wrote: "Secondly, even if there is a difference, is it relevant?"
and

"Mark wrote: " empathy in some ways creates sentience - to have a consciousness of self and an awareness that others have that same consciousness. something beyond basic urges, something that allows humans to imagine themselves as another. because this feeling can lead to empathizing with individuals who are dangerous or with communities that could threaten your community" ...


Very well said, Mark.

Bun: what?

[mark]

that high horse must be a very comfy spot for you, Sally!