Last Sacrifice
discussion
Really?! How stupid is he!!!???
It was the only thing he could do to protect Rose, so she wouldn't get thrown in jail again and sentenced to death. He knew Dimitri could protect her since he knew Dimitri was a good guardian and had great fighting skills unlike Adrian. Plus Adrian knew where she was supposed to be, and Sydney would've been there, so it wasn't like Dimitri was the only person she was going to be with. And Adrian could've always reached her in her dreams when needed, and he could catch up on the latest details about her. Plus Adrian had to stay at Court to find Queen Tatiana's true killer.
Grace wrote: "It was the only thing he could do to protect Rose, so she wouldn't get thrown in jail again and sentenced to death. He knew Dimitri could protect her since he knew Dimitri was a good guardian and h..."Yes all true Adrian just trusted Rose like you should when you love someone and Rose betrayed him. He did what was best for her.
Adrian isn't the kind of guy to just boss her around and tell her what to do. Why take away someones free will?You should always think the best of the person your in a relationship with and have faith and trust in them or else why are you with them? Adrian trusted Rose and gave her the benefit of MY doubt. He is not in the wrong for that, at all. He believed in Rose so deeply. In her abilities and strength. It was amazing to read about how much he did believe in her.
He is not naive or blind. He knew of Rose's love for Dimitri and understood it. He gave Rose his trust when she decided she was ready to give him a chance and the rest was in Rose's hands. That's how a relationship should be. To stop her would be controlling her and why do that when there is a chance that she could come back to Adrian without any remorse about not being with Dimitri? We knew that wouldn't happen but how was Adrian to know? He believed she loved him too maybe enough to give up on Dimitri. Adrian took a chance. It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. At least this leaves him open to find better in Bloodlines which I am so happy for. If Rose would have stayed with him we probably wouldn't have to have a chance to follow his story like we are. Thank goodness!
I LOVE Adrian!! ! He did what he did to protect Rose, and he knew that he wouldnt be able to stop her from going, so he did what any awesome boyfriend would do, he let her go in hopes that when she came back she would be all his. I dont think he was stupid for doing that at all.
I posted this on another thread but it applies here too...Honestly as soon as Adrian saw Rose, he was hooked. The main reason, besides she's awesome, was that she wasn't into him and didn't fall all over him like he was use to. That made him try extra hard because he wasn't use to rejection. Then he figured out how strong she was and independent. When she left with his money, he knew she was still in love with Dimitri. He did it because he cared about her despite her being in love with someone else. If he was already in love with her, he shouldn't have done it. Also he was used to giving people stuff rather than showing his love in other ways. He thought that if he did this, she'd fall for him when she got back.
He wasn't going to stop no matter what she said especially since Dimitri was out of the picture. I truly feel like even though Rose didn't want to get over Dimitri, she really did try. After she was with Adrian, she did like him and love him even. But he was definitely not getting clean for himself and for someone to do that, they have to do it for their self and not someone else. And Adrian knew she still was in love with Dimitri. I don't blame him though. He's amazing yet unbalanced. I felt for Adrian even though I know they weren't meant for each other. Rose truly felt horrible.
And she definitely shouldn't have accepted his help and he shouldn't have offered it. They were both desperate. He was desperate for Rose's affection and she was desperate to save Dimitri. Adrian should have given her a year to get over Dimitri. When stuff like that happens, pretty much a death, it takes a year, at least, to move on. I don't care how young you are. And after everything that Dimitri did, even though he couldn't control himself, it should have taken her a heck of a long time to get over it. Adrian pushed her into it. But she didn't push her away.
Oh, everyone's just screwed up. They're both in the wrong but I'm happy Rose and Dimitri are happy! No matter how screwed up in the head they both are. =)
Rose didn't feel horrible at all, infact I don't think she even showed an atom of remorse towards Adrian. And it's not Adrian's fault that he got cheated on, the remark that the OP is making is idiotic and disgusting. It was Rose's inability in being faithful towards her significant other— it's pretty obvious she's ruled hormones otherwise she wouldn't have jumped on Dimitri's dick so fast.
♔ Leah. wrote: "Rose didn't feel horrible at all, infact I don't think she even showed an atom of remorse towards Adrian. And it's not Adrian's fault that he got cheated on, the remark that the OP is making is i..."
Seconded. Especially with that pathetic speech she gave him about how he relied too much on her or some crap like that. Adrian was naive to trust her? Naive to love her and put an ounce of faith in her?
Rose lead him on into a deadend relationship and she was AWARE of this fact— it's Rose's fault. I don't care how badass she is and how much she loved Dimitri. She could have easily denied the relationship with Adrian but she didn't because she craves male attention. She's a conniving bitch. She's a liar and a narcissistic twat and didn't deserve any of the happiness she got at the end. I don't get this fandom's logic. It's ludicrous and quite frankly disgusting.
♔ Leah. wrote: "Rose didn't feel horrible at all, infact I don't think she even showed an atom of remorse towards Adrian. And it's not Adrian's fault that he got cheated on, the remark that the OP is making is i..."
How can anyone say that Rose didn't feel at all sad about what she did? She's not perfect and no one else in the world is either. Yes she needed Adrian's money to go attempt to kill Dimitri but Adrian knew she was in love with Dimitri. She didn't tell Adrian that they'd get married and have kids. She agreed to give him a chance. And she did when she got back because she thought she'd successfully killed Dimitri. Adrian didn't even give her a chance to mourn the death of the man she loved. He wasn't going to take no for an answer. I'm not saying I dislike Adrian for liking Rose, but dang. Stuff happens.
And Rose saved a lot of peoples lives. Additionally, Adrian wasn't changing for himself. He was attempting to change for her, but it wasn't what he truly wanted. He was fine with the way that he coped with things. When you do something like that, you have to do it for you. If seen that before in my personal life.
Maybe Rose craved male attention in the beginning of the series but she got over that. She did give him a chance. She tried really hard, but things didn't work out. Relationships don't always work. No she shouldn't have cheated on him but that one mistake doesn't cancel out everything else she ever did for others.
★ Kimi ★ wrote: And Rose saved a lot of peoples lives. Additionally, Adrian wasn't changing for himself. He was attempting to change for her, but it wasn't what he truly wanted. He was fine with the way that he coped with things. When you do something like that, you have to do it for you. If seen that before in my personal life.I agree with Adrian not doing it for himself. He really didn't want to change which is why things got bad he continued to drink and smoke. But Adrian did offer to quit knowing that she hated the smoke. He just needs to realize he doesn't need it or find someone that can handle it.
Exactly. Because when she was gone he went right back to it. I know there's someone out there who's better for him.
I'd love to see where she actually showed remorse because it appeared she didn't feel bad at all. She only mentioned him once after she broke up with him and yet, she turned the tables around on to him saying he was the victim. It wasn't only him— she tramped all over Sydney and Eddie and didn't give a damn about them, only about her and her precious Dimitri. Adrian didn't even give her a chance to mourn the death of the man she loved
That is completely ridiculous. Rose seemed completely fine after she killed him and was happy to be back. Then she accepted his proposal of going on a date— she has a mouth, she could have easily said "No, I'm not ready because I'm still feeling grief and he's still alive".
He wasn't going to take no for an answer.
If he really wasn't going to take no for an answer then why did he say he'd wait for her? Why did he let her go to kill Dimitri? You're just mistaking the fact that he made his attraction towards her as if he's forced himself onto her which is just delusional.
The only major life she saved was Dimitri's. Every motive that she had centred around Dimitri no one else mattered. She threw away numerous years of friendship with Lissa and tried to pin the blame on Lissa just because she initially refused to risk her life for a man she barely knew. Also, just because she saves lives (seeing as her job is to save people), it doesn't excuse all the horrible things that she did not only to Adrian, but the way she treated the people that were her friends as commodities just to bring her boyfriend back.
I beg to differ that she tried "really hard"— she just kept neglecting him at every oppurtunity to get back together with Dimitri. She rarely thought about how he was doing yet in Spirit Bound, he was always looking out for her— especially at the end of the novel where he tried to prove her innocence. Yet, she demeaned him from drinking alcohol in coping with the death of one of his beloved relatives. Rose always tries to get people to sympathise with her yet she doesn't even bother empathising with other people.
Adrian dealed with the effects of spirit through smoking and drinking alcohol— he didn't like taking pills because he wanted to use spirit. Rose always demeaned him for being crazy and unstable yet she prohibited the uses of cigarettes/liqour which actually stopped the effects. If he didn't want to quit it, then he didn't want to quit it— Rose should have stopped discriminating against him for it.
♔ Leah. wrote: "I'd love to see where she actually showed remorse because it appeared she didn't feel bad at all. She only mentioned him once after she broke up with him and yet, she turned the tables around on to..."I don't think I can say anything else that you haven't. I just wish Rose had actually taken her own advice for once about relying on people and playing the victim, because that's all she does. I don't think she grew up at all over the course of the novels. If anything she worsened.
Although I do think it's a good think she broke up with Adrian. Just so he can get away from her.
It's funny how much Rose bitches and moans about how hard her life is but acts surprised when other people are hurt by her actions and shows them no sympathy. It's hyproctical and disgusting.
@LeahFirst of all this is my opinion and my knowledge from the series. I respect everyone’s opinions.
They never really got into what happened after with Eddie or Sydney. She did realize how much they sacrificed for her. She didn’t get down on her hands and knees and beg Eddie for help. He was willing because she’d saved his life. She told him that it was really bad what she was asking for but he still said yes. Also, I don’t think that Abe would really do something horrible to Sydney since she’s Rose’s friend. But again they didn’t get into that. And both Eddie and Sydney will be in Bloodlines.
She wasn’t completely fine after she got back from killing Dimitri. But she did promise Adrian she would give him a chance so she did. I feel like everyone could tell that she wasn’t fine. I don’t think I would be fine after something like that. I honestly don’t even understand why Adrian liked Rose so much. She’d never given him a chance when she was with Dimitri. All he really knew about her was that she wasn’t throwing herself at him like every other girl had done. In the beginning I felt like it was more about the chase and what he couldn’t have. It was always so easy for him before because he’s attractive and rich. It was a challenge for him with Rose. He hadn’t spent enough time with her to actually know her.
I agree that she could have said no to Adrian. I’m not saying that it was right that she didn’t but until I’m in a situation like this (I have to kill the man I love and then I find out that I actually didn’t kill him and he wants to kill me; plus I’m confused because I know it will never work out with him but I also like this other nice guy) I can’t say. I can’t really say how I would act in the situation because I’ve never been there. Lol it’s actually quite a complicated situation. It would have been great if Adrian had just tried being friends with her and getting to know her for a few months but he wanted to be with her too badly.
He really didn’t have a choice in whether she was going to leave or not. She’d have found a way to keep her promise to Dimitri. It’s nice that he said he’d wait but if he hadn’t waited, it would have been good for both of them.
I didn’t say that he forced himself on her. Adrian’s not like that. But he is use to getting what he wants and he wanted Rose. I’m definitely not delusional thank you. =)
I don’t feel like she demand that Adrian stop drinking and smoking. She definitely didn’t like it and Adrian knew he didn’t have a chance with her if he didn’t stop. I don’t think that I could actually have a relationship with a person that was under the influence of something all the time.
She didn’t throw away her friendship with Lissa. She was still concerned about Lissa the whole time she was out there and did what she could towards the end. That’s why they were still friends. Yes it’s her job to save other people and sacrifice her own happiness but hey, I’d want some happiness in my life if I did all the things that she did.
To say that Rose doesn’t care about anyone else’s feelings is just mean. (My opinion. Just sayin) It’s clear that she’s always cared about Lissa and even when Eddie and Mason left the academy to go find the vampires, she went after them. Obviously she cared. She didn’t make Christian come with her, he made that choice. She’d protected him before as well. She saved Eddie’s life and tried to get Mason to leave her behind to save his life.
I’ve never disliked Adrian. I just like Dimitri more. Seeing as how everyone on here hates Rose much and loves Adrian so much, I would think they’d be happy about the way thinks happened. Lol It seems to be that no one thinks that Rose is good enough for Adrian. And where did this whole love for Rose even come from with Adrian? What did she ever do to make him fall for her? What did he know about her? What did they have in common? Nothing. She never went crying to him all the time when something happened. For anyone to say that she manipulated him is just a crazy thought in my opinion.
@JahliaI’m not even saying that it was okay that Rose cheated on Adrian or took his money. I don’t feel like Rose gave Adrian any reason to like her or fall in love with her. She didn’t “screw him over” until she cheated at which point she wasn’t using his assets.
Yeah, we can't really say that Rose doesn't care. I mean, look how much she cared about Dimitri's family. She tried to stop his little sister from running off and getting in trouble or pregnant with that guy that got the other sister pregnant. She worried about her. She also didn't like that Victor was using his daughter, Natalie, in his evil plans and had her turned Strigoi and killed. She was depressed and felt guilty when Mason was killed. She cares. But I know what you mean when you say that she doesn't because she doesn't seem very grateful. You don't hear her say thank you. They pretty much know that if they ever need anything she has their back.Adrian did know that he wouldn't stay with Rose. Not with Dimitri around. That's why he was always looking to her for reassurance and she gave it to him knowing how she still felt for Dimitri and sneaking around to visit Dimitri. Once she started sneaking she should have called off their relationship. I mean, he heart and feelings were elsewhere and Rose always gets what she wants. She MAKES it happen. Adrian wasn't planning on her being unfaithful to him. He didn't think she would go that far and that she was more honorable than that. I understand that shit happens and that's just life but Rose knew her feelings and she chose to ignore them and lead Adrian on a string. She didn't want to let Adrian go until she had Dimitri and she was sure they would be together.
Yes, Rose is very dependable and if any of her friends were in danger she'd have their back. I just wanted to make that clear that she does care about people and she's not just a selfish self centered bitch. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, and shit does happen. Well, hell it's not like I believe I'm going to change anyone's opinion of Rose or anyone else is going to change mine. All of her decisions weren't great just like everyone else. She was only 17 when it first started, but mature for her age. It's ridiculous to think that she would make all correct decision.
I don't feel like she strung Adrian along but I do agree it was wrong of her to cheat. I feel like a lot of people at some time or another in their lives are torn between two people and have the same struggles that she had. Cheating is never right but that doesn't mean that she's the worst character ever in a fictional book series. Just saying.
Okay I'm done! =)
That is the writer's fault as well but Rose never even thought of them after that incident, she never said "They have been such good friends to me and maybe I should do my best to get them out of it because I was majorly responsible for their fate." Did she? Nope. All was forgotten because she couldn't get off her high horse and think that maybe she owed them at least some form of gratitude. Also, maybe their situation was resolved in the spin offs but how were we supposed to know who would be cast in them? They might be fine now but they didn't deserve their punishment. Personally, she seemed completely fine after she told Lissa how she felt and was optimistic and happy how well everything turned out to be for her- far too easy after all the shit that she did. No one knew how she felt because Rose is immensely dishonest as a character, she didn't say that Dimitri isn't dead and is after her to people that genuinely cared about her and would have given her time to sort out the situation once and for all . Actually, Adrian's interest stemmed from her strange aura, and then her personality- they both were similar and had a great dynamic so that's why he was so intrigued by her and he had known for a while, there only maybe 6 books but there is a time span between then, it's pretty apparent to me that they had gotten to know eachother. Rose and Dimitri in the other hand jumps from crush to obsessive, hero worshipping love in a blink of an eye. Adrian simply stated that he had feelings and didn't fall in love with her until afterwards.
With his influence I'd think it would be possible if he was the Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame type— if he wanted to stop Rose then with his power as a Royal Moroi he could have but he didn't Adrian isn't like at all. He respected Rose's wishes and didn't force himself onto her— he knew perfectly well that she wasn't an object. I don't believe for a second that Rose could really do it because Mead's writing is incredibly lazy and gives a pass card to the heroine- especially that stupid as fuck prison break scene, that was such a weak high security prison- it was more like a play pen. In the end did she keep her promise instead of putting him through the trauma that is facing what he had done? Nope. (But of course him fawning over her hair fixed everything, sorry but that was stupid-I'm just saying).
Adrian isn't insensitive thus he wouldn't have been forcing her to get into a relationship with him if she didn't want to. Plus, if she was making a false promise then why did she manipulate him emotionally to make him give her money? That's vile. She could have found another way to get money without giving him false hope whilst doing so.
If she was getting into a relationship with him in the basis that he was a non-smoker/drinker then it shows how incredibly shallow she is, plus she is no one to judge- it was implied she used to smoke weed and drink a lot in VA. He wasn't completely drunk that he became a different person though, in fact his persona was pretty consistent and it wasn't as if he was being abusive- plus he smoked more than he drank and you don't get high from smoking last time I checked.
She didn't care about her when she was being Dimitri's blood bag and it was pretty obvious that she chose Dimitri over Lissa and then acted like it was Lissa who was the root of the problem. Lissa has equally given rose everything considering they were like sisters. Rose didn't have to be a guardian- she could have chosen not to yet she demeaned a dhampir couple who quit guardianship out of love yet she whines about lack of freedom to express her feelings when it came to guardianship. Hypocritical much?
I have to disagree, Rose was incredibly narcissistic and nothing mattered unless it revolved around her and Dimitri. She may have saved lives but it doesn't excuse her for walking out on them and using them and then not giving a damn. She barely mentioned Mason until he appeared as a ghost and she didn't even seem sorry- it was a case of telling but not SHOWING, that's how I interpretted it from her thoughts because she was too busy thinking about Dimitri to care. This is my 2 cents and I stand by it, you have yours and I have mine. I don't think Rose deserved her happy ending because she screwed so many people over.
Jahlia wrote: "★ Kimi ★ wrote: "@JahliaI’m not even saying that it was okay that Rose cheated on Adrian or took his money. I don’t feel like Rose gave Adrian any reason to like her or fall in love with her. S..."
Yay! I'm glad... and I hope you finish the series! It's my favorite.
I will always be Team Adrian but now we are going to have to start rooting for a girl for his heart. So I am ready to start rating the options Richelle Mead gives us and giving them hell because Adrian only deserves the best.
Stormy ♥'s JJ wrote: "I will always be Team Adrian but now we are going to have to start rooting for a girl for his heart. So I am ready to start rating the options Richelle Mead gives us and giving them hell because Ad..."
The only option she seems to be giving him is Sydney Sage, ugh. Def. not the best for him.
The only option she seems to be giving him is Sydney Sage, ugh. Def. not the best for him.
I'm not too fond of her so far but I will have to form a better opinion once I read Bloodlines and I did here that there is another girl that forms a love triangle between her, Adrian, and Sydney. I think that this would be great because we don't see this guy and two girls situation very often.
I will always remain a supporter of Adrian/Avery. At least she genuinely liked him for who he was and they had amazing chemistry.
Are you sure she didn't like him because he was a spirit user?
I'd have to say that I agree with almost everything Kimi said throughout this whole conversation. Rose is just like any other teenager. And we teens make mistakes. Y'all are titled to your opinions. And if I read the series again and looked at it in your POV's then I'd probably see where your coming from. But the thing about me is that I have this habit of looking between the lines, of putting myself in the heroines shoes. It's a favorite past time of mine and really helps me see what goes on with the characters. However I also put myself in Adrians shoes a lot during the books. I loves Adrian. I did. But the thing is, his drinking and smoking, I would not have a tolerated. Which is why, I don't think Rose made a good decision in going into a relationship with him since she also seemed to gel that way. However she did promise to give him a shot. But for me, drinking in general scares the shit out of me. Even if it is just in a book. It's still scary.
Also, I think that Rose should not have cheated, yes, however I do recall reading that she felt horrible about it when Adrian caught her and Dimitri. And then she tried to talk to him, but as expected he was pissed beyond repair. And I don't think Rose was right for him so I'm glad he left. Um...ya... Idk. This is just my opinion...
Just because they drink and smoke, it's not a valid reason to not like some one. It's pure ignorance and to base hate of a character on that. Did Adrian become violent when he drank? Did he sexual harass people when he drank? No. In fact, Adrian was more care free, so I don't understand what's so scary.I love how people seem to forget that Adrian needs to smoke and drink to keep insanity at bay. If he wasn't discriminated for his smoking/drinking habits, I know that this fandom will hate him for having mental problems. So much hate.
Also, A, she felt "bad" for a millisecond yet she said that she needs him for a bit longer in order to use him to finish off her dirty and then she can discard him like a used Kleenex. It didn't sound sincere. Rose is awful as a person and as a character.
I really don’t understand why Adrian is coming across as a victim here. I can understand it for Sydney, Eddie, even Jill. I believe that to an experienced and world traveled young man, it should had been obvious that Rose had been cheating on him since day one. I don’t even understand why people are so upset about the actual ACT of cheating; there are dirty deeds that don't hold a candle to the emotional cheating.
Yeap, what Rose did to the guy was awful. But I don’t see him as a victim and I don’t think she is an awful person because of it. I find her actions to be compatible to the character of a teenage girl of military training who is trying to find a balance between her life and her duty, her love and her need for some peace. I find her to be human.
Now if you wanna talk about awful Rose, bring on the Sydney file! Leaving her to face - god knows what - punishment after all she’d been through to help the cause, pfffff. Awful Rose, awful!
You say that emotional cheating is a lot worse than having sex with an other person yet you condone it because she is human?! Don't make me laugh. That is not human at all. The excuses of her "duty" and "life" are completely null and void. Those factors had nothing to do with leading a guy on whilst jumping into a bed with another man. Cheating is one of the most prominent signs of being an emotional blackmailist. Adrian did a lot to help her like give her money, let her go to Victor's trial and trying to prove her innocence, just like Sydney did- yet you only care for Sydney? That makes no sense at all.
Alkyoni wrote: "I really don’t understand why Adrian is coming across as a victim here. I can understand it for Sydney, Eddie, even Jill. I believe that to an experienced and world traveled young man, it should ..."
Lol, did you even think about what you were writing, or did it just flow out of you in a jumbled mess of "this-makes-no-sense?" What in the hell? If anything, her DUTY should have helped teach her not to be a selfish b*tch. Seriously, you are the perfect example of why I am ashamed of the human race.
Whoa. Shits getting serious. Too serious for something that's fiction. Chill out and remember that this is a discussion. ;) I love Adrian despite his faults and I love Rose despite hers. She gave me a story to follow and fall in love with. I love VA and despite everything that Rose did that I absolutely hated her for at the moment all together I don't see her as that bad. Though her and Dimitri aren't as high as they were in my book before Last Sacrifice I'm ready to move on and get with Sydney's story, the total opposite of Rose. This might be refreshing, this might be boring but I'm ready. Adrian needs to find someone for him and that's really what I look forward to the most is that to be honest.
Alkyoni wrote: "I really don’t understand why Adrian is coming across as a victim here. I can understand it for Sydney, Eddie, even Jill. I believe that to an experienced and world traveled young man, it should ..."
I completely understand where you're coming from. I feel like everyone is being a lil too "Poor, poor grown man Adrian who wanted Rose soooooo bad because of her interesting Aura and fell head over heels for her. Poor him." Honestly, Rose was only 17 when her relationship started with Dimitri, who she actually grew to know and love and spent plenty of time with him. Adrian was trying to get at her from day one when she was attached to someone else. As soon as Dimitri pretty much died, he was there to say "Okay lets go date. Be my girlfriend." Come on! I'm not saying that it wasn't shitty for Rose to cheat, but she'd been through a lot. And she was trying to find balance in her life that she never had. She did help a lot of people. Honestly, her dad was not going to do anything super horrible to Sydney. Rose would have done what she wanted with or without everyone's help. She is outgoing and determined in everything. Eddie would have done anything for her because she saved his life and he was her friend.
Adrian knew what he was getting himself into. I still say that yes he was attracted to her aura but he knew nothing about her yet he wanted her. Since she didn't want him, it was a challenge for him initially. He's a grown ass man. He knew what he was doing. It's as much his fault as her fault. Yes it was shitty for her to cheat, but yes she is human and I don't feel like making that one mistake makes her the worst person on the face of the earth and I don't feel like it takes away from everything she did for everyone.
@Leah : I was more upset about Sydney because,unlike Adrian, she didn't have a choice into helping Rose and she was left to face punishment. Adrian got a broken heart and I'm not saying that it's a small thing. I'm saying that he should had seen it coming and that he should had stayed away.@Krista : I have been called a shame to the human race before, for my cooking skills. Being called such for not wanting the head of a fictional teenage character who cheated on her boyfriend, that's a first.
@Kimi : My thoughts exactly, thank you. It would had been interesting if we had Adrian's POV, to see why on earth he fell in love with Rose.
I'm not saying that Rose cheating on Adrian wasn't an awful thing to do. I believe that she should had just stayed friends with him from the beginning. The whole romance was a mistake, but I can understand the reasons why she wanted to give it a try.
So what is the valid reason for Rose liking Adrian instead of Dimitri whom she had a genuine connection with and whom she loved? Did she ever say that she hated Adrian for drinking and smoking? Did she demand that he stop? lol Also, do we know what Sydney or Eddie's punishments actually were?I don't feel like a person who's a functional alcoholic can actually have a normal relationship. Also, there were other spirit users in the book who did not drink or smoke constantly to deal with their spirit abilities.
@Krista that was a really rude thing to say. You're ashamed of the human race because Alkyoni doesn't share you views? I'm ashamed of you.
@Alkyoni I truly don't understand why he fell in love with her. I don't feel like he even spent enough time with her to fall in love. And why is Rose suppose to fall in love with Adrian? I definitely feel that they should have kept it friends from the beginning. He's a grown ass man and he knew what he was getting himself into. I feel like all these Adrian lovers think that anyone who doesn't hate Rose feels that we think that there was nothing wrong with Rose cheating. No, she shouldn't have cheated. But people are human and they do make mistakes. But that doesn't make every single person who cheats a horrible person.
I think most people are upset with how Rose treated Adrian overall, with the cheating being the cherry on top. Leah is right, Rose did use Adrian.
First she sweet-talked him into giving her money for her trip to Russia, knowing that he was in love with her. I remember flinching there. I don’t remember why she didn’t get the money from someone else or if Mead ever gave an explanation for it. We never actually get to find out what that sweet-talking contained, I seriously doubt she promised him eternal love though. What I don’t get is WHY Adrian gave her the money in the first place. Rose didn’t steal it; he gave it to her. We don’t have Adrian’s POV in this book, all we have is his…. Well… sweet-talking to Rose.
Then Rose used him to get over Dimitri. Huge mistake on her part. So, a 17 year old girl, who has known little else than staking Strigoi walks into your arms, telling you that she’s over the guy that you knew she had been madly in love with, to the point of travelling to the other end of the rainbow to keep her promise to him… Do you feel lucky and bless your good fortune? Doesn’t it cross your mind that after all she’s been through she might be, I dunno, unstable at the moment?
Then Rose used him to communicate with the Court through his dreams, in order to prove her innocence. Then again, I believe that finding out who Tatiana’s real killer was must had been something of interest to Adrian as well. He was his favorite aunt after all.
So Rose made some pretty bad choices throughout the books and if those were the only ones that she made, I too would say that she was an awful person. But then I see a young girl programmed to take a bullet for someone else at any given time, with little regard to her own life and a soldier that goes after her goals against all hope and logic.
I understand why a lot of people can be unforgiving about her cheating on Adrian and I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind on the subject here, this is just my personal point of view. I second what Kimi said about people who believe that cheating is wrong without concluding that Rose is a horrible person.
I don't think I will change anyone's mind either. Almost all of this is my opinion based on the book.And it bothers me how everyone acts like Adrian was a delicate little flower.
When Rose went to Adrian for money, she never promised him sex or even crossed the line in order to get what she wanted. She didn't do anything past friendship. She didn't make out with him or anything. She pleaded to him several times, held his hand, and kind of rubbed it. That was as far as it went. Adrian even said:
p 431 "That's not fair," he repeated, slurring his words a little. "You're using those come-hither eyes on me, but its not me you want. It's never been me. It's always been Belikov, and God only knows what you'll do now that he's gone."
Rose was desperate and Adrian was too. Plus he cared about her. Rose cared about him too. The whole time she was there, she kept saying how horrible it was that she was doing that to him in order to get to Dimitri.
Then after they hugged and Adrian kissed Rose on the forehead, he said "Just keep your promise and come back."
"I didn't exactly use the word promise," she pointed out.
He said, "You're right."
I'm not saying that Rose has no fault in using him for his money, but she knew that he cared and she didn't do anything inappropriate to get the money. But Adrian is at fault here as well. He was coherent enough to say all of what he said and make the phone call to the bank. He could have easily said no but who would do that if they care about a person and have the funds available? Like everyone who loves Adrian said, he wasn't horrible when he drank or crazy or anything. In fact even though he was semi drunk off vodka, he knew exactly what he was doing and exactly what she was doing. He gave her the help she needed knowing there was a possibility that she might never come back. When she was in Russia, she didn't ask him to come into her dreams. He did that on his own, as he did when she was hiding out.
When she returned from Russia, she gave Adrian a shot because she promised and because she thought Dimitri was dead. She was shocked to find out that Dimitri was still alive and was trying to kill her. She didn't think that he would actually have a chance to. How do you tell you're boyfriend that the man that you were in love with that you thought was dead is actually alive and trying to kill you?
+ So what is the valid reason for Rose liking Adrian instead of Dimitri whom she had a genuine connection with and whom she loved?A "genuine connection"? LMAO, don't make me laugh- the basis of Rose/Dimitri was a lust charm along with Rose's obsessive hero-worshipping of him constantly combined with ONE mutual interest: being guardians. She just liked him because he was good looking and he just liked her because she was a woman of strength. That was the exact same reason why he was attracted to Tasha because of the way she defeated Strigoi even though she's a Moroi. That would be me saying "Oh, you should only fall in love with someone with the same profession as you." That's a fucking stupid reason to think that Dimitri was perfect for her: they both agreed on the fact to be guardians. That is all. I hardly think that a seventeen year old girl who has never been in a proper relationship would ever know what real love is and Rose doesn't.
Did she ever say that she hated Adrian for drinking and smoking? Did she demand that he stop?
If she didn't like him then why did she always demean him for smoking or drinking EVEN when his beloved aunt died? She's an insensitive twat, people deal with grief in different ways. Rose always makes a fuss whenever he is smoking saying it's disgusting and always makes distasteful internal comments whenever he smokes.
I don't feel like a person who's a functional alcoholic can actually have a normal relationship. Also, there were other spirit users in the book who did not drink or smoke constantly to deal with their spirit abilities.
He had a valid reason for drinking loads of alcohol in order to keep the madness at bay so he won't suffer from mental illnesses and have suicidal thoughts. Are you telling me that the latter would be the better option? Also, in order to be a functioning alcoholic, his personality would change drastically whereas his personality remained consistent throughout. I think it's ignorant that you think that alcoholics can't maintain relationships because plenty of alcoholics sustain relationships pretty well.
*sigh* God, I've said this before and I'll just copy from above if people could be bothered to read it. *eye roll*
Adrian dealt with the effects of spirit through smoking and drinking alcohol— he didn't like taking pills because he wanted to use spirit and pills stopped him accessing his power. Rose always demeaned him for being crazy and unstable yet she prohibited the uses of cigarettes/liquor which actually stopped the effects. If he didn't want to quit it, then he didn't want to quit it— Rose should have stopped discriminating against him for it.
I definitely feel that they should have kept it friends from the beginning. He's a grown ass man and he knew what he was getting himself into.
They were friends from the beginning seeing as it took 3 books for their relationship to blossom, and it's blatantly obvious the way Dimitri/Rose lovers say that he was in lust when the basis for Rose's love for Dimitri was a LUST charm. If Dimitri was a "grown ass man" why did he pursue a relationship with a student and then push her away when duty called? At least take both love interests into account instead of pining your dislike on Adrian.
I feel like all these Adrian lovers think that anyone who doesn't hate Rose feels that we think that there was nothing wrong with Rose cheating.
*eye roll* It's not just her cheating, it's the fact that she constantly uses people just to get what SHE wants. She asked Lissa to bring Dimitri back to life— asking someone who is her best friend to sacrifice her life just to get Dimitri back? And then guilt-tripping her into doing it so Rose won't abandon her. Then it was how she uses Sydney and Eddie and then not even batting an eye-lash when they get in deep shit. This series is fully protagonist centered morality and if no one fits into Rose's ideal mold then they are shunned for it.
"She didn't do anything past friendship. She didn't make out with him or anything. She pleaded to him several times, held his hand, and kind of rubbed it.""That's not fair," he repeated, slurring his words a little. "You're using those come-hither eyes on me, but its not me you want. It's never been me. It's always been Belikov, and God only knows what you'll do now that he's gone."
There are so many faults in your argument that you are making. First of all, since when am I implying that Adrian is a delicate little flower or are you just making assumptions instead? I'm talking about Rose's selfish attitude and how her self-righteousness allows her to judge people that in her views aren't perfect and the way she uses people in order to get what she wants and then not give a damn about it later on.
Just because she didn't make out with him or have sex with him doesn't make it appropriate. WTF? *shakes head* That's like saying it's wrong to support the Nazis but it's okay to make a racially offensive joke. No, it's wrong in both ways.
Ever heard of something called emotional blackmail?
Knowing that we want love or approval, blackmailers threaten to withhold it or take it away altogether, or make us feel we must earn it in order to gain something from us.
Yeah, it's not exactly the nicest thing. It's horrible- it's manipulation at it's peak. It was blatant that she was seducing him, you even quoted the part where she uses the "come hither me" eyes" and he is aware that she is doing so. Also, "rubbing his hand a little"? It's pretty damn obvious to know what she was doing&mdash: emotional blackmail by trying to seduce him subtly— only an idiot would think she wasn't doing anything inappropriate— like I don't know, being aware of someone's feelings and using it against the person to get money?
Leah, you mention that you don't understand how everyone is forgetting that Adrian had been drinking in order to stay mentally stable. What I don't understand, is how Rose is the spawn of the devil for cheating/using, whatever, while Adrian who is a walking vice is just the poor victim.You mention the reasons for his drinking and smoking, and I agree, these are the things that kept him sane. But it's not like it's no biggie because of it. True, he wasn't abusive (yet, for all we know) but whichever way you look at it, alcoholism is a disease, and a functioning alcoholic doesn't stay that way for long. And that is not something that I'm saying, this is something that the entire Medical Community is saying.
Kimi is ignorant for not believing that alcoholics can sustain relationships? If so, at what cost to the people who care about them? You say that Rose was pushy about it for no reason, even though his poor aunt had died, and that was his way of dealing with it. I think it's exactly because she did care that she was asking him not to, as any close friend would have done.
Then there is the excuse, he wasn't taking pills because he wanted to use his powers. So what we've got is: using spirit in one hand, ruining your life in the other. He made a very brave choice in this matter, but again, it's not like it's no biggie. His alcoholism doesn't just affect him, but those around him as well.
Let's make something clear; I don't have any problem with Adrian because of his vices at all. I just like to call things by their name, and even though I agree with many negative things said about Rose, I can't understand why everything has to be her mistake and for Adrian to have one excuse after the other regarding his choices.
One of the interesting things in reading a book and talking about it, is the different views that everyone is getting from it. You believe that Rose's and Dimitri's relationship was based on lust. I do believe that they shared a strong physical attraction but I also believe that as the book progressed they came to admire, respect and understand each other. I don't know what you think about why Adrian is in love in Rose, but what I got is that the guy was bored out of his mind and he found her to be exciting. Don't shoot, I am not saying that he didn't come to care for her. I'm just mentioning it since we are talking about the way relationships started...
I do agree with you about Adrian being bored with his life and finding Rose exciting. I mean what was his life before Rose? We don't really know. It wasn't said. We know of Dimitri's and everyone else at the Academy because that's where they've grown up besides the occasional vacations but their lives are that school and what they will be when they graduate. Adrian...what about him?I don't think that either Adrian or Rose is to blame for their failure to stay together. I mean, Rose was never completely honest about what was going on with her and Dimitri. She was never straight out honest and telling Adrian her feelings. Adrian was kinda being pulled on a string waiting for her to make a decision because she did have a choice and how was he to know that she wouldn't have given up on Dimitri? People change their minds and feelings everyday. She had plenty of chances to come out and tell the truth but she hid it from Adrian because she wanted to be sure that Dimitri was her's before she dropped Adrian because really, how many times has Dimitri backed out on their relationship?
A lot of times lines between right and wrong are terribly gray. I have been in Adrian's shoes and Rose's and I've made the same mistakes that they have and to put them down for it would make me a hypocrite and I try very hard not to let myself judge someone for their actions unless they are completely WRONG like a murderer or something. I mean, Rose and Adrian were playing the dangerous game of love and they both put their hearts up for bid so when they cash out is up to them.
Adrian had to go through all that heartache to appreciate someone good when they come around and to make that person EARN his trust instead of giving it away like he did to Rose. I mean, for him its a lesson learned and and an experience gain just like it is for all of us that choose to live life. I just look at things as whatever happens, happens. Things change, we get older, we learn, we grow, and we shouldn't regret anything because it makes you who you are today and Adrian will realize this eventually when things get better for him so I don't see the point in stressing who did right or wrong. Shit happens, people mess up and make mistakes whether they regret it or not its up to you to let it bring you down or not. Eventually Adrian will choose NOT. Rose is going on with her life he should too. He will realize that they were not meant to be together just like we have because Richelle Mead didn't make Adrian up to be that naive. :)
Has Adrian done anything relatively wrong? No, thus why everyone seems to be picking on his physical vices and making such a fuss about it when you seem to be going Rose a free pass card because of her so called "normal" behaviour and saying it's okay because she was trained like a soldier. You forget that in order to be a soldier you must be selfless but Rose is selfish. Adrian wasn't abusive, period, it's been established in a book that he wasn't a fighter. Also, alcoholism is a disease as established by the Medical Community but Adrian would hardly be affected by it seeing as Moroi rarely have diseases (unless genetic like Victor) and a high metabolism meaning that the body is able to get rid of alcohol in the bloodstream much faster than a human can, because of those qualities I doubt he'd have to worry about any side effects of alcoholism seeing as Moroi have a much evolved regenerative response thus why they rarely suffer from illnesses or ailments.
I'm sorry but did his habits direct Rose directly? Did she suffer from it? No, she didn't- she only chastised him because she didn't like it herself and people who do not fit into her standards are deemed to be lower than her. She rarely cared about him in the books but when it comes to his vices, she suddenly does? I don't think so. Any close friend wouldn't say he was a "coward" for drinking after a loved one's death, now would they? A bit insensitive, don't you think?
Spirit is an interesting and new power amongst the Moroi with vast potential benefits- he wanted to learn more about it and I don't see anything wrong with that especially when he used it for good by healing guardians that were injured because of Rose's idiocy in Spirit Bound, didn't he?
Again, his alcoholism didn't affect anyone directly and just because people dont like it themselves, it doesn't mean that they should enforce their morals onto someone who isn't like them like Rose consistently does. Rose drank alcohol and smoke weed as it was implied in Vampire Academy but she doesn't get judged yet Adrian is judged harshly for doing the same. You can't turn a blind eye to one character but demean another for doing something similar.
And let ME make something clear: I don't understand why Adrian's.physical vices have to be something of a great debate and exaggerated to the point where it grows to be ludicrous yet me criticizing Rose's moral/ethical vices- such as her lying, ignorant and manipulative tendencies- yet I'm the hypocrite? Drinking/smoking and using people and being plain narcissistic are 2 completely different things, the latter being worse because I don't judge a character out of PETTY (judging him from his habits is pettiness personified) characteristics. Rose's actions have put many people's lives at risk yet Adrian's drinking habits are seen to be harming others. Give me a fucking break. I judge a character on how they treat others, not because of their liquor cabinet.
Admire and respect are the characteristics of hero-worship, and it doesn't make a based for a loving relationship. Just because I respect J.K. Rowling doesn't mean that she is my lesbian soulmate *eye roll* Their relationship stayed in that obsessive lust stage and just got more shallow as the series continued, he got over his strigoi trauma after looking at her hair and the only drive for Rose was the cabin scene event.
With his wealth and lifestyle, I hardly think that Rose would be more exciting seeing as he could travel anywhere and go to the most elite places- he found her intriguing because he noticed her strange aura at first, sure he was physically attracted to her as the second reason but he was more interested in her personality, had she been a bland bimbo, I doubt he'd give a damn. Rose stood out to him because she had some fire in her and they were very similar in terms of personality, because they did seem like kindred spirits at times. It wasn't forbidden love or he liked the chase of a girl who don't fall for him, he liked her solely for being her and understood her, on deeper levels than Dimitri had shown to have done. Dimitri understood her for the fact that she would die for Lissa to keep her alive. Whereas, when Lissa was angry that Rose had left, Adrian understood as to why Rose had to do it and supported her.
@LeahThat’s fine with me if you have that OPINION about what their relationship was about.
Yes they were attracted to one another but that is not what I was even remotely talking about. They had actual conversations about his family in Russia and life.
Just because she made some bad choices doesn’t mean that she disliked Adrian. And there are many people that don’t like to date smokers or alcoholics. If you feel that an alcoholic can have a normal relationship with someone, that’s fine. Please let me know when you’ve been around enough alcoholics to prove your case. I’m actually not ignorant. But you must be that and many other things to call me that.
Yes I’ve already read that from you. I’m aware of his reasons for smoking and drinking. Thanks for letting me know for the 3rd time.
I never actually said that I disliked Adrian. And I have taken into account their relationship. But it remains my opinion that he didn’t know her enough to fall in love.
Many of the people that helped Rose willing to help. Lissa wanted to help Rose because she loved her and wanted her to be happy. Rose knew it wasn’t safe for Lissa to try to stake Dimitri and she was shocked when she was about to do it. She went to Eddie for help and he said I’ll do anything. She told him it could mess up his life and it was really dangerous. He didn’t care. Like I already said, she would have done all the things she did with or without Sydney’s help.
They are shunned for not fitting into Rose’s ideal mold? LOL okay.
That delicate little flower thing, I didn’t pinpoint that to you. And it’s my opinion that this is the way that people who are on the Adrian side act. It’s as if he has no fault in anything, he was taken advantage of, and he will never be the same. I just don’t agree with this. I in no way feel that she has a selfish attitude or that she’s judgmental.
I also never said that taking Adrian’s money was appropriate but Adrian shouldn’t have given it to her.
Rose didn’t threaten to withhold love or approval or try to make Adrian earn it. He is the one that asked for the deal if she came back. She didn’t want the gifts that he gave her before and she didn’t care about the flirting. She went to Adrian hoping he would help her and she said IF she came back which she did.
So let’s see, you’ve called me ignorant and an idiot little girl. I’m sure that’s you. You'd have to be to come at me that way because of my opinions without even knowing anything about me other than this conversation. This is a discussion not a debate. But it really doesn’t bother me what you said because I know that I’m none of that. You seem to be a little touched.
@AlkyoniAwww thanks for defending me friend! It's fine. Why should I care that someone who I don't know and who doesn't know me calls me a name? =)
I’ve known people who are alcoholics and it is very true that it affects them and those around them. My father was an alcoholic as well as his father. If any friend of mine was drinking and smoking to cope with things, such as a death in the family, I wouldn’t be a friend if I didn’t try to help them stop. Addictions or dependence affects people.
It is the same thing that you said that is bothering me. It’s as if Adrian has no part in this. That’s what bothers me.
What you said about Rose and Dimitri having respect for one another and understanding each other is what I love about their relationship. That’s what makes it strong. In addition, they have a friendship as well. I definitely feel like Adrian came to care about Rose but I don’t feel like he was in love with her for any reason.
@StormyShit does happen. People do make mistakes. And I do feel like Adrian can learn something from this. =)
Whatever. There is enough evidence to see what their relationship was really about. Wow(!) They talked about Russia and life? They are so totally in love with eachother and are totally soulmates(!) *sarcasm*
I don't know what her making bad decisions means she hates Adrian from, she's done the same thing but in her view she is righteous and he isn't? I know people don't like getting into relationships with smokers and what not but there are some who do and for your information I do know people who do drink quite often and manage to be quite alright. Rose judges people for their weakness and demeans them for other because they aren't physically strong and this is what I mean when people do not fit into her ideals.
Wow, do you just like to twist people's words or you cannot read (because you seem to blatantly avoid some of the points I am making thus me having to repeat what I have said) or are you plain delusional? I never said you were ignorant, I just think you judging people who drink alcohol are not able to sustain a relationship is ignorant because there are some out there who do. And I didn't call you an "idiot little girl"- that was probably your talent of twisting my words striking once more.
Also please do elaborate on my ignorance and "many other things" because your condescending attitude seems to making a guest appearance.
Says the one who made up a whole load of bullshit and started to get rude for no reason instead of discussing, and additionally a discussion is a debate, if you can't handle it then don't bother. Especially seeing as how rude you are.
You misunderstood... I called you little girl... many other things such as rude. You think that I'm rude? No I respect everyone's opinion and I don't call people idiots or ignorant if they don't agree with me. You twisted around so many things that I said. I don't even know what the point is anymore.You also don't seem to understand anything that we're saying. Oh well at least we tried. I understood everything you said, considered it and I understand that Rose made some bad choices. But Adrian did too. He should not have given her the money and he should not have gotten into a relationship with someone so confused who was going through so much.
Okay I'm done.
No, I think YOU misunderstood- don't call me a little girl and then preach to me about how I shouldn't call people ignorant whilst making passive aggressive comments and then being condescending. Again, that was you twisting it and as predicted, now turning the tables to derail it and make me look like perpetrator.It's called disagreement because I didn't find your points valid enough through CONSIDERATION. Look it up, it might give you a vague idea that your opinions aren't facts, either. Maybe if you didn't think you were above it all, this might have remained civil.
Adieu!
:)Yeah, me too.
You guys, I feel when the unnecessary name calling starts that this isn't for fun anymore unless you like that kind of thing but I don't and your making me uncomfortable when this was a discussion that I was enjoying before hand. Please, please, please, can we go back to that? I don't like seeing people get cut down for having an opinion of their own on a site that asks for opinions. So, can we just be civilized? I'm all for world peace! :) So, help me out!
I mean, on Barney & Friends does Barney go running in to kids just to watch them bounce off his big belly and laugh as they try to pick themselves off the ground while BJ stomps on them with his big sneakers and Baby Bop chokes them with her yellow blankey? Do the kids run around saying, "Stupid!", "Doofus!", and "Your mom!"? while swatting and trying to bite each other? NO! They DO NOT call each other names! They do not hurt each other. Sometimes I think that we forget the things that we learned when we were young just to create a hard exterior that no one can penetrate. Loosen up! Don't take things so seriously and be nice! You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. :)
I'm trying for humor here. Ugh. Maybe I grasped at straws but I give myself an A+ for effort.
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(I do feel slightly bad for him though)
DIMKA FOREVER!!!!!